their everyday lives. and then of course there s the bottom line for businesses many of them saying they ve really been hit as far as the economic impact because of this curfew. she faced some criticism even after she announced a short time ago that she is lifting this curfew for the city of baltimore. many people even on social media say the damage is already done, but the mayor saying she wanted to assess because this was a public safety issue and what she wanted to make sure was there was not this replay we saw last week with violence and the rioting. and speaking of rioting, i am standing right in front of the mondawmin mall. this was essentially ground zero for all that violence and rioting. some of that happening right here. we had shattered glass. we had damage to buildings. within damage to businesses within the building here. and we do know that in a matter of minutes the mayor will be showing up here to announce that the mall will be reopening. it has been closed for about a week. really a turning point here. not only have we seen consecutive days of peaceful protests but just now getting this announcement the curfew has been lifted and now we re starting to see businesses affected by the looting, they re now starting to reopen. renee, thank you for that. please stand by. with me now evan perez, cnn s justice correspondent. tom fuentes, former fbi assistant director and cnn correspondent nick valencia. nick to you and to evan in particular i know you ve been embedded with the protest movement. what will be the reaction do you think to the lifting of the mall? will that defuse the protest activities? i think you will see definitely defuse the situation. i think in the last couple of days certainly i think the curfew has been the cause of the protests over here on the town, on the city green. a lot of people were here on friday night just protesting, chanting against the curfew when they were arrested. and last night was the same thing. i think the curfew had gotten to the point where it was now causing some of the unrest. and that was a big complaint among the demonstrators that we were with yesterday on north avenue and pennsylvania avenue. at one point about 9:00 p.m. joseph kent a young man who was arrested on national television by the national guard, led a group of about 100 demonstrators up north avenue. at one point, michael, he stops in the intersection and he says if you are not serious about what happens next please leave. a couple people did peel off. but to evan s point it wasn t so much that they were demonstrating against the injustice of what was done to freddie gray as much as they were demonstrating saying we are grown adults you cannot tell us to be out in the streets. of course we all saw what happens next. perhaps the larger question is the national guard presence. will that imagery perpetuate or have the potential to perpetuate something more? of course the same could be said about the media. do our cameras being here do they give potential to move this forward in a bad way? you know tom, i ve thought myself that the presence of the guard acts as a magnet of sorts. okay. so now there s no curfew but they ll still be here presumably until governor hogan says they no longer need to be. how do you read that? it s a difficult choice, michael. you have if you don t have the guard here and they re looting businesses endangering lives, pelting police officers and firefighters with rocks, cutting fire hoses, that s a tremendous threat to national well national security local security here in the community. you can t have that. and so if the police, as the police admitted on monday we don t have the resources to handle this then you call for backup. and in this case they had 1,000 or so officers from the state police and zroungd counties and the national guard. and i think they were just making sure especially when they were hearing that more and more people from out of town are going to be coming in friday and yesterday, and that created a fear on the authorities part here that we need to be extra safe not less safe. i think when they do the calculation the damage that s been done to the local economy is going to be staggering. i can tell you just going out to dinner last night i was told you need to order right now because we need to close i think it was 7:30, and the rationale was yes, but everybody who works here needs to get safely home before 10:00 p.m. there s a restaurant just up the block, miss shirley s, which is well known, famous people come from all over just to go there. usually a line on a weekend, brunch. we walked in nobody else was in there. it was very lightly light crowd. and you know they were saying that the amount of money they re getting in is way down. some hotels had 90% occupancy to tuesday and they were down to 15% just in the last couple days. the economic effect of this will be a case study i m sure in years ahead. yesterday we had one of the biggest fights in box history, manny pacquiao against floyd mayweather. people couldn t go. . people could not go out. right. the city shut down. and who knows? one local affiliate spoke to a business here says they lost $10,000 last night. i m sure other businesses could say that they over time have lost more. it will be very interesting to see if public sentiment shifts should the protests continue. now the curfew s been lifted. if people come out on a sunday night and things get out of hand i think there will be a changing tide in terms houf the public looks at this. i think so. one of the things i saw last night in nick s reporting that that when you had these wild kids running around these buildings, anarchists the local people wanted police to come here and deal with these kids and get them out of here. when you have the community trying to police itself with the help of the police that s a pretty significant step. that was another aspect of the curfew. it was bringing in people who had no other intention to come here no respect for freddie gray or anybody else they only wanted to come here and tangle with the police and get themselves on television for doing it. we see that all over. we ll see what happens tonight. right. what s the latest if you re able to tell us relative to the investigation of the burning of the cvs? we know the atf is on the scene right now they re collecting evidence. they believe they re going to be able to solve these arsons. a lot of these arsons were actually they were first looted stores. and especially the pharmacies. it was people who wanted to go in and steal the oxycontin, things they can resell on the streets. so that s part of the investigation as well. people who wanted to come in there just to try to get stuff that they can sell on the secondary market. and then they torched the stores to try to destroy evidence. i think the atf and the local fire marshal think they re going to be able to solve these fires. the human part to this is that was the only pharmacy this community had to go to. i was talking to a woman yesterday michael and she said i don t know where i m going to go for my prescription medication i need this medication for my diabetes, i don t know where i m going to go. the factor also at play is will investors come back to this community? will they feel safe investing in this community having seen what happened there? law enforcement have some tough calls to make as to whether they ll move forward with prosecution of the individuals that they have locked up in association with these protests. from a police standpoint cops hate this. you don t want to make an arrest on minor almost worthless charges like curfew because the reason is you have to put your hands on somebody. they might fall down and break their neck and now you re up to your you know, situation. or if you pepper spray them they might have a heart condition or asthma and choke to death or have a heart attack and die. you don t want to mess with that. if they re bank robbers, great. but if they re just curfew and wild kids that have come to town to cause trouble, you don t want to have to touch them. law enforcement s been put in a very awkward position with all the scrutiny that s been placed as a result of what happened to freddie gray then having to provide some semblance of order for the protests that ensued. they were criticized because they held back on monday when the first anarchy broke out. you can see they feel like they re damned if they do and they re damned if they don t. and i get it. i get what the criticism is. at the same time i think you do become a magnet for this situation as people were saying you have people coming into town simply because she see the guard presence they see state police on the streets and they think this is something they might be able to challenge the order. you would think the guard would remain for at least another day to see what s the impact of the lifting of the curfew and then a decision would be made whether it s time for them to go as well. if there s any indication to the shift in attitude the shift in perception here for the first time in recent days on that corner, north avenue and pennsylvania avenue, where the cvs burned down, we did not see local police in riot gear. now, that changed throughout the night as these demonstrators challenged the curfew but we should be fair. there was a jubilant attitude. somewhat of a block party, if you will, at one point that changed as those agitators went forward with their purpose and cause. but that feeling remains. thank you, rene marsh, evan perez, tom fuentes, and nick valencia. we ll continue to monitor this breaking news. don t go anywhere. 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(vo) visit your local retailer and feel the tempur-pedic difference for yourself. i m caridee. i ve had moderate to severe plaque psoriasis most of my life. but that hasn t stopped me from modeling. my doctor told me about stelara® it helps keep my skin clearer. with only 4 doses a year after 2 starter doses. .stelara® helps me be in season. stelara® may lower your ability to fight infections and increase your risk of infections. some serious infections require hospitalization. before starting stelara® your doctor should test for tuberculosis. stelara® may increase your risk of cancer. always tell your doctor if you have any sign of infection have had cancer, or if you develop any new skin growths. do not take stelara® if you are allergic to stelara® or any of its ingredients. alert your doctor of new or worsening problems including headaches, seizures, confusion and vision problems. these may be signs of a rare potentially fatal brain condition. serious allergic reactions can occur. tell your doctor if you or anyone in your house needs or has recently received a vaccine. in a medical study most stelara® patients saw at least 75% clearer skin and the majority were rated as cleared or minimal at 12 weeks. stelara® helps keep my skin clearer. ask your doctor about stelara®. i m michael smerconish. we re live in baltimore, where the curfew has just been lifted. i m with evan perez, cnn s justice correspondent. cnn correspondent nick va qulaens and tom fuentes, former fbi assistant director. gentlemen, the baltimore sun had a report today on the front page which was really stunning. they had a report justin fenton who was inside the police investigation of what had just gone on relative to freddie gray monitoring the process. the takeaway was they were absolutely floored. they handed over their file on thursday and then they were shocked as everyone else when friday the announcement was made pertaining to the investigation and the charges. this doesn t bode well for what comes after here in baltimore. how so? because you have a state prosecutor who floored everyone. she didn t tell the political leadership. and i guess that s appropriate. the police department which as you said pointed out finished up their investigation on thursday handed it over to her, was absolutely floored. they had no idea she was about to do a press conference and she was going to announce charges against these six officers. she gave them about an hour notice before she went out there. and that is just simply a symptom perhaps of a bigger problem. maybe the bigger problem is the left hand and the right hand just don t trust one another in this town and didn t feel comfortable bringing anyone into the loop. right. and that s remarkable because there is something wrong in this country where it does appear we repeatedly have police investigating themselves and find they did nothing wrong. and that has sown a lot of distrust in minority communities and communities around the country. so perhaps something big needed to happen. a big change needed to happen. she certainly decided this was the route she was going to take. the actions that predicated the charges were largely things the police did not do. initially she said this is an arrest that should not have been made. but then it s all about what law enforcement didn t do. they didn t respond to his pleas for assistance from a medical standpoint. and they didn t belt him in. it occurred to me that those two events not belting him in and not responding to his pleas for medical assistance and i m not defending, it but that probably goes on with some regularity. for example, i m not sure that the guy who for a time period shared that van with freddie gray i m not so sure he was belted in at the time. i don t know if we know the answer to that question. and jailitis is the term that was published today in the baltimore sun for someone who s been taken into custody and now claims they need medical assistance. last month the rule to strap everybody in just went into effect april. right. so that means all previous arrests it was pretty discretionary for the driver as to whether to do it or not. if you have somebody that s bound at the hands, bound at the feet, not strapped in i don t care if he drives five miles an hour. the passenger is not going to stay on that seat. you just can t. and then when he goes off, he s not going to be able to break the fall. it s going to be severe. and i think that what you re talking about is yes, negligence and violating department rules. but it s a long step to say they deliberately murdered him, they deliberately did this to him. and i think there s a rule in investigations when i was investigator and then running investigations is you never form your theory what happened up front because subliminally subconsciously you will be ignoring evidence that contradicts your theory and finding everything that backs your theory up to do it. and i think from the beginning i don t think there s much question that there was pretty common thought here that these police killed him. but not in a deliberate way. she didn t say they intentionally took him on a rough ride. and not with any concerted never said nap and not with any concerted activity because there s not a conspiracy charge here. i think the onus is on the prosecution to have to hold them individually accountable. from a causation standpoint i think that s going to be difficult. and my hunch is it was prosecuted or was about to be prosecuted in this way so as to get them to turn on one another. there s another factor is part of the crime scene was freddie gray s neck. and the surgeons that worked on him for a week to save his life basically had to remove tissue move things around get in there. so essentially they re witnesses now instead of the medical examiner of what was the condition of that neck the cervical spine, the voice box when he was being treated at the hospital before he died and the body goes to the medical examiner office. and that s going to be a very difficult thing. and it s a rule in law enforcement, you d like a pristine crime scene for the investigators. the crime scene investigators. the medical examiners. but if you can have the opportunity to save somebody s life it comes first. nick i ve watched you for the last several nights as has the rest of the country walking along with the protesters. is it enough for them that prosecutions are taking place and the system is now going to take over or must they have convictions? because i think what i m saying and i think what tom is saying is we re a long way from a conviction phase. the short answer is i m not sure and i don t think many of these demonstrators know the answer to that. when i asked that question do you think the worst has passed some said yes. others said that things will always be tense. even more said though that we need to get justice still. these officers remember still have not been indicted. they ve been charged but they have not formally been indicted. now they wait for a trial. they wait to see if their pleas are met. if they find these officers guilty. i worry, michael, that more will happen if the community here doesn t necessarily get what they want and that s the conviction of all six officers. you re pulling triple duty here now. we re hearing the church bells. what can we say in it s live television. what will happen with the justice department now that action has been taken on a local level? they ve got a couple roles here. they re doing what they call collaborative reform. the mayor invited them in to help fix the police department. that is a process that s already like six, seven months in progress. and so we ll see whether or not there are any long-term reforms that they can carry out for this police department. the second thing is they re doing an investigation of the freddie gray death. and we ll see whether they re able to bring any civil rights charges against these officers. the issue is there s a little bit of less pressure, a release valve, that has now taken place because of these charges by the state prosecutor. as you know the bar is pretty high to bring civil rights charges, federal civil rights charges in these types of cases. i ll be anxious to see by the way, i had this happen this morning when we were here in the same spot. it will land in about two minutes, i think. tom fuentes, at the outset of all of this which has transpired in baltimore, it seemed like the relationship between the governor and the mayor was not the best. there were questions raised as to whether he was waiting on her and whether he could find her. it will be interesting to see now that the curfew has been lifted whether they re working in concert with one another relative to the national guard. and specifically what i m thinking of is should the mayor request that the national guard now be removed, will he necessarily follow her lead? i would think. if she makes the request, he can t afford to not follow the request. but i was a little bit surprised, or maybe i should say a lot surprised as a viewer monday you know when they started doing the after-action press conferences about the riot and you have who asked who and when it almost gave the impression that i let this mayor have it her way, which was too gentle and we had a riot and the police couldn t stop it, step aside get out of my way, i m moving my office to baltimore, i m bringing in my troops literally troops combat veteran guardsmen along with the state police in the thousands, - get out of our way, we re going to secure baltimore. and that s what it looked like to me is that conflict had come to the top. gentlemen, stick with us. i want to squeeze in a quick break. i want to come back to baltimore. we re awaiting a press conference from baltimore s mayor. please stand by. if you struggle with type 2 diabetes you re certainly not alone. fortunately, many have found a different kind of medicine that lowers blood sugar. imagine what it would be like to love your numbers. discover once-daily invokana®. it s the #1 prescribed in the newest class of medicines that work with the kidneys to lower a1c. invokana® is used along with diet and exercise to significantly lower blood sugar in adults with type 2 diabetes. it s a once-daily pill that works around the clock. here s how: the kidneys allow sugar to be absorbed back into the body. invokana® reduces the amount of sugar allowed back in and sends some sugar out through the process of urination. and while it s not for weight loss, it may help you lose weight. invokana® can cause important side effects including dehydration, which may cause you to feel dizzy, faint, lightheaded, or weak especially when you stand up. other side effects may include kidney problems, genital yeast infections urinary tract infections changes in urination high potassium in the blood, or increases in cholesterol. do not take invokana® if you have severe kidney problems or are on dialysis. stop taking and call your doctor right away if you experience symptoms such as rash, swelling, or difficulty breathing or swallowing. tell your doctor about any medical conditions medications you are taking and if you have kidney or liver problems. using invokana® with a sulfonylurea or insulin may increase risk of low blood sugar. it s time. lower your blood sugar with invokana®. imagine loving your numbers. there s only one invokana®. ask your doctor about it by name. we re taking you right now to the baltimore mayor stephanie rawlings-blake. she s speaking to the media outside the mall that was looted on monday. i m just so grateful because it shows the resiliency of our city. i want to thank general growth and all of the vendors who are here. they want to stay here. they want to their investment. it s certainly a smart investment because this is a growing community. again, i want to thank all the members of the community that have come together to support mondawmin mall. i ve been coming here since i was a child, taking my christmas pictures with santa, i think the easter bunny. you can come up general growth if you want to come up. come on. you sure? and this is just a great day for this community to have the mall reopened. just a wonderful day. i was proud to support the investment that i think it was the baltimore development corporation made into this mall to do the major renovations and to see it bounce back so quickly. it gives me a lot of optimism about what s possible in the rebuilding. i ll open it up. i don t know if bdc wanted to say anything no, ma am. what was the difference between yesterday and today in your decision to lift the curfew? so yesterday we had some of the same outside protesters that we had on saturday. when the peaceful protests turned into destruction, and we were very cautious that we were able to get through that night without having it turn into what happened last saturday. the national guard, the police presence will they stay now? what about the national guard and state troopers? so they unwind. it s not like you flip a switch. they have to unwind their operations. and they re going to do that over this next week. are they withdrawing basically? yeah. are you concerned this might be premature on your part? you ll tell me that afterwards. it will either be too long or too early. you ll let me know afterwards. can you talk about how confident you are right now in the state of affairs in baltimore, in how peaceful it is in the underlying unrest. what is your assessment right now of the state of affairs in baltimore? right now i m very confident. what we saw over the past few days is not just the resiliency of our city but also our communities coming together. we want to heal our city. we know we have challenges in baltimore. we know that there s work to be done. but what you saw in these last few days with the peaceful demonstrations and people coming together to celebrate baltimore is that will that we will get better that we will get through this and we ll do it as one baltimore. in terms of the unrest what is your appraisal of the status of the unrest in baltimore right now? i think a lot of the unrest has been settled down in the sense of the protests but that doesn t mean the work doesn t continue. we are actively engaging with the department of justice on collaborative review. we have been since last year in the process of improving our police department reforming our police department, and putting in place things that will eliminate this type of incident from ever happening again. with you elaborate on the role the faith leaders of the community have played 99 only renot only in rebuilding the city but in quelling much of the violence. there are words rinare insufficient to describe my gratitude to the faith community. they have come out in unbelievable ways to not just support me in the physical sense of the city but to support me spiritually and to help us rebuild our community. when they were out there, you saw the fire burning in east baltimore. but when they were out there, it was the fire of their spirit and it was really energizing our community. and i cannot words are insufficient. to describe my gratitude. ms. mayor, what s your reaction to the criticism of your leadership during this crisis but also praise of the governor? that s your job, to react and respond to that. you know i m very focused what do you think? i think i m going to continue to be focused on rebuilding my city. about your conversation you had [ inaudible ] they are optimistic. you know they re excited about continuing their investment in mondawmin. this is a very successful mall. so to see that destruction that i saw when i toured on tuesday, it was really it was devastating to see that done to these vendors who have put so much money into this mall. but to see them back i was just excited. and you know they re optimistic moving forward that we ll never see anything like that again. thank you. [ inaudible ]. outside groups mayor stephanie rawlings-blake speak k to the media after lifting the curfew that s been in effect since last tuesday. i m sort of disappointed. as far as i could tell nobody asked about the presence of the guard. i thought evan someone would have said is it time for them to leave. right. i think that s the thing when you walk around the city you see the guard. much respect to them. certainly down by the east harbor you have more guard than you have tourists than you have people walking on the streets. and it is not the image that you want right now. i think you want i know that there was perhaps a need for it on tuesday. but i think it s probably time for them to go back to their jobs their regular jobs. even to the point of local police being ramped up and really sort of intimidating riot gear. we were listening to conversations that they were having with the community yesterday, and they were saying it was sort of a specific order that they not wear those helmets so as not to intimidate the public. right. has this been tom, a test case for the debate over the so-called militarization of police? i ve seen a lot of equipment as i ve been walking around baltimore in the last couple of days that i m sure at some point was on a battlefield in afghanistan or iraq. no that s true. and i think in this case it s the militarization of the military. it s the national guard that s here not the police using equipment that s been given to them free by the military. i think that i saw a police tank yesterday. but i think some of the people talking about ferguson have made a mistake because they said look at the mistake made by the deployment of the st. louis county police with all their military gear and their sniper on top of the truck. that s true. that s absolutely true the sniper in the truck was off the top, should have been using bin oculars or something. but when they backed police off earlier in the week, when the police stood as spectators like we saw on monday buildings burned and people got hurt. so the lesson is find the right mix of at least have them staged out of sight but ready. and if things get out of control, you don t have to make a statement like the police spokesman did on monday which i almost had a shock when i heard tr, well it well we don t have enough police to do protection of property and protection of people we had to do one or the other, we decided to protect people. that is incredible to me. you don t have that either or. what should he have said? we re here to protect both. and i m sorry our police officers were given orders to be spectators as that cvs was burned as women are coming out of burning apartments with their babies in their arms enveloped in smoke, while people are cutting fire hoses, if not saving lives that that site later in the day might have been needed another site if you had a major apartment building catch on fire. sought idea that you re not there to protect property yes, you are there. property and people. not one or the other. gentlemen, stand by. i want to go to rene marsh. rene rene thanks for sticking with us. were you surprised that the mayor didn t say anything about the national guard? well she did. she was asked specifically about that and she said there will be a drawdown it will not happen immediately, it will be in stages essentially we ll eventually see them pulling out one by one in stages. so that is the answer that we got from her as far as the national guard goes. but again, we will not see them all disappear, we will not see that presence diminished right away but it will happen in stages. that was the word from her. she did go inside and she did meet with many business owners who their businesses were damaged. again, this was ground zero for where all that rioting and the violence began. the bigger question now is the issue of dealing with the greater economic impact. yeah sure they ve reopened but what has been done to the city of baltimore as far as its image and tourism and people are they willing to come, and what will the lingering effects be? at this point it may be too early to assess that. but she did in her talks here discuss a feeling of trying to return to normal, michael. zble rene thank you so much. thank you for correcting me because i didn t hear that exchange. we appreciate your report. we re waiting for a news conference from governor larry hogan speaking shortly after attending church on what he declared as a day of prayer and peace. we ll be right back. ( spinning tires ) he doesn t need your help. until he does. three cylinders, dual overhead cams and 50 horsepower. go bold. go powerful. go gator. get 3,500 dollars off select gators at a dealer near you. george johnson can not fly. he can not see through doors. his speed, anything but superhuman. but when it comes to health care options, george found helpful information and resources at aarphealth.com this makes him feel unstoppable. well, almost unstoppable. discover real possibilities at aarphealth.com today and tomorrow take on the world. we re waiting for a news conference from governor larry hogan speaking shortly after attending church on what he declared as a day of prayer and peace. evan perez, nick valencia, and tom fuentes are still here with me. evan it occurs to all of us that six individuals have been murdered in baltimore since the guard arrived unrelated to the whole freddie gray situation. there s a problem here. there s a bigger problem here. and it s funny, this morning there was a city councilman who was tweeting he wants the national media to leave, he wants, you know things to go back to normal. i talked to someone out in the neighborhood in north and penn this week and what they said was they didn t want things to go back to normal because normal is baltimore in baltimore is not good. you know six murders is the average that they have here. and you have heavy guard presence and state police. and still there are six fatal shootings just this week many more that were not fatal. and that s just normal. what s the short-term solution? that s the great question. we ve had community leader after leader talk about 30 years or 300 years of oppression here. all true. so that children like freddie gray are almost doomed from birth to having difficulty the rest of their life. but we need to fix those. no question about it. what do we do tomorrow next week next month when we have six murders a week in this town and have had that average go back several years? this morning on state of the union i had two big city mayors and also a very prominent member of congress. the question i was trying to drive them cardtoward is is there a government solution to awful this and did government create this? it s a philosophical question not easily adopted for a short conversation like this. but i think it s a very real discussion that needs to be held. you re going back to the point i made earlier. the media presence here, are we perpetuating this? is this imagery of the national guard what do you think? what we saw here yesterday was we saw a lot of people acting outrageous for the cameras. and if they weren t here they would be asking why are we not here. so to evan s point earlier, it s sort of a damned if you, do damned if you don t. what we have seen over the course of the last week is an evolution in the narrative of the demonstrators, an evolution in the narrative of what they re using. we spoke to a lot of young black men yesterday who were disgusted with what they saw on monday night, the violence the criminal activity, and that s something we had not heard a lot of people coming out and saying this is not baltimore, this is not the city that we live in. yes, every big city has major problems but there s a lot of people know that are really pointing out bad things that are happening. you speak of the evolution of the protesters and their mindset. how about the evolution of the mindset of the mayor? i heard her moments ago refer to some as outside protesters. you of course know she used the thug word earlier in the week. she walked it back. the president used that word as well. he did not walk it back as far as i know. and she got into a lot of trouble. you know part of the problem for her is she s had a rough week. she started off very poor response to this and i think that s what has gotten some of that response. i don t know what the right answer to that to the word whether the word should be off limits or not. i can hear both points of view. chris cuomo made a very impassioned he s shaking his head no. no it shouldn t be off limits. that s a mainstream term. in my 30 years in the fbi and six as a cop we used thug to mean a criminal who s violent. not bernie madoff who s also a criminal but violent. but words change. who changed it? the black community decided this is our word we can t use it anymore? it s a mainstream word. it is a mainstream word. but after hearing what people say, that word sounds like to them you know i m rethinking the way i look at it. it s changed my view on it. look i m a bald white guy from the suburbs of philadelphia. what do i know? when i hear thug i have this image of a stocky white guy that exactly. at target range. you know who i m thinking of when you go to an door range and there s a white guy with a gun in his hand he may or may not have a cigar butt sticking out of his mouth? to me that s what i think of when i think of a thug. i m thinking of jon gotti. i m thinking of asian organized crime groups russian organized crime groups that use violence and narco terrorist activities. they re thugs. and suddenly this has taken on a racial it s not the n word. and it shouldn t be. and the best way to prevent it from being an n word is use it on everybody else that deserves it. i think somehow there needs to be a conversation that bridges personal responsibility and an understanding of some of the institutional drivers of the circumstances that exist in this city and in big city america. i don t want to absolve those who were can i say hooligans, who looted burned, who stole? criminals. criminals. they need to be condemned locked up and put in jail. at the same time i do want to be understanding about the plight of communities in which they were raised. i was in this neighborhood sand town where freddie gray lived. we were over there doing live shots in the early morning. and there was one image that really stuck with me was the image of a father getting his daughter getting ready for school putting her in the car. to the left to the right the entire block, boarded up houses houses missing roofs, burned out shelves of buildings. that s the environment this little girl is growing up in. that s really it s hard to believe that s what we have here in baltimore. and it s not just baltimore. philly. lots of places in america. detroit have the same problem. and i don t know what the solution is. it s just but it s clearly i know people are tired of us being here perhaps but shining a spotlight on the problem is probably not a bad thing. according to marilyn mosby the solution is accountability. that s haw heard her saying in her press conference you re getting it now. the concern going forward of course is are these young men making her look bad by continuing to protest, continuing well they will tonight if they come out tonight and particularly if it gets out of control. i think that they will absolutely prove to be an embarrassment to her after she extended herself from those very steps when she walked down unexpectedly last friday and charged six police officers in the way that she did. by the way, we re about a minute away i think from the governor address the recent events the lifting of the curfew here in baltimore. what do you think, tom, we ll hear from him? probably the same thing as the mayor. i think it s kind of interesting they re not making this announcement jointly. it goes back to what i said earlier, he moved the capital from annapolis to baltimore. he brings in his state police his national guard, several thousand, and basically says i m taking over the town. you would think at this point they might have gotten a way to talk together and gotten a way of presentation that brings peace and unity back to this community and removing the guard and state police and going back to business as usual. the fact they re making separate announcements means to me they re not on the same page yet. is it too soon to do a political calculus in terms of how this impacts the mayor, how this impacts the governor? i think this has been a very very bad week for her. i think if she had aspirations beyond city hall it s a very bad report card she s going to receive. what was the greatest failing? she was absent while the city was burning initially. initially. and she s had a hard time coming back on that. and every time she goes before the cameras and gets asked questions she doesn t like she starts walking away. on the other hand you might think so. she said i think to a person at that briefing we just watched. but i m not going to comment. on the other hand we have the state prosecutor archbishop lawrie we ve got the governor right now. here s governor larry hogan speaking after attending church services. i can tell you we saw a lot of good things this week. when i came into the city on monday night it was all in flames. the city was burning. stores wrbing looted. a lot of terrible things. but since then i ve seen incredible acts of kindness. i saw neighbors helping neighbors. i ve seen a community that cares about each other. and it s a great way to end the week-w a day of prayer and piece and reconciliation. that s what this is all about. how do you feel about the lifting of the curfew that the mayor just announced? are you concerned at all that looters might come back at all now that the khawr phew has been lifted? the mayor and i both talked and we agreed that it s time to get the community back to normal again. it s been a very hard week but we ve kept everybody safe. since monday night we haven t had any serious problems. i just thank everybody in the community for their help in keeping the calm and keeping the peace. we couldn t have done it without them. but it s going to take a little while for us to totally get back normal. but i think lifting the curfew s a good idea. it s been a really rough week but let s get back to normal in the city and get people back to work and back to school and get people coming back into the city to visit the shops that were really devastated this week and the smallest mom and pop stores and restaurants. they need your help. so we want tone courage everybody to come back to the city. it s safe. and we ve got calm and peace in the city which is something we haven t seen in a little while. how long will the national guard be staying, governor? we ve already started withdrawal of the guard. the trucks are pulling out this morning. it s going to take a little bit of a while. you know we brought in 4,000 people this week to keep the city safe. we brought in 1,000 extra police officers 3,000 members of the guard, and 3,000 volunteers to help clean things up. it s not going to happen instantaneously. it s going to take a couple of days to get everybody out. we had to build an entire city to save the city. so it s going to take i while, but we ve already started and we re going to get back to normal as quickly as we can. the police officers is the baltimore police department in need of reform? well, look i don t want to get into the reform of the baltimore police or the case itself. what we need is a lot of healing. obviously, there s big issues we ve got to address. what i ve been totally focused on, 20 some hours a day every day for the past week is keeping everybody safe. there s longer-term questions and issues about how we fix this how we develop more trust between the community and the police how we fix some of the overarching problems happening in our urban areas and here in baltimore. but today we re not going to solve that. today we re about having peace in the city and thank everybody for their help. freddie gray was not restrained in the police van he was in. is this neighborhood and some neighborhoods around the country that s known as a rough ride. do you want to review statewide right now how prevalent it might be in other law enforcement agencies? well actually, we re signing eight pieces of legislation including one that allows us to gather all that kind of information from various police departments. we ll be doing that this week. governor the rough rides let somebody else ask a question. [ inaudible ]. it s going to be devastating. monday night we lost 200 businesses. most of them were minority-owned businesses. many of them didn t have insurance. hundreds of millions of dollars have been lost. people had their homes burned down businesses burned down and looted. and then the folks that didn t get a hit on monday night lost business for an entire week. and i talked to a lot of them over the past few days. a lot of people were impacted in communities throughout the city. we re going to do everything we can to help them. you think about going to church. the cardinal said this is the time for walls to come down. what kind of walls have to come down for this healing process? well you know we ve all got to come together. it s a day of unity. it s a day of reconciliation. it s a day of prayers and peace for the city of baltimore. for the people that have been affected. for freddie gray s family. for all the folks that lost their homes and businesses. for the over 100 police officers who were injured on monday night. you know one of the first things i did when i got here i went to shock trauma and saw 15 police officers that were badly injured. the sacrifice of the national guard, the police and fire that were out there protecting and serving almost 24 hours a day. a lot of people need our prayers and our thanks. the community leaders who came together the faith leaders who pitched in and continued to preach peace. i ve got prayers for everybody. and i thank god for the wisdom and strength that i got because i can tell you this is the first moment of peace i ve had in a week. we ve had almost no sleep. governor. the officers aren t convicted about more rioting in the city. this is the very beginning of the process. we don t have a role in the process but i believe in the justice system. it s going to take a long time to play out and we ll be prepared for whatever. we want the truth to come out as everybody else does and we ll see what happens when it does. thank you. thanks, guys. curfew s already been lifted. state of emergency too? governor larry hogan hey-i think we ve just learned a great deal men, in terms of the latest developments. i heard the governor say he had spoken to the mayor, that it s going to take a while to get back to a sense of normal and most significantly perhaps the drawdown of the national guard, a subject that we ve been discussing for the better part of an hour, began this morning. it s already in effect. he said 200 businesses were lost on monday night alone. hundreds of millions of dollars have been lost in the process. i think my takeaway is we have just heard during the course of this hour the political establishment declare that this is over. what remains to be seen is what happens tonight and do the protesters go along with the establishment. that s right. and also you know this entire incident has been so unusual in that you have rioting before you even have a decision any verdict or anything. that s typically what happens in these types of cases, rodney king and others. baltimore has set a new standard of how people behave when these types of incidents happen. what i think the governor also was trying to address was we don t know what s going to happen with this process, whether or not there s going to be any convictions of these six officers. and my fear is that we ll be back here again when that process wraps up. i have the same fear. what did you find significant? a boiling point here. they started rioting on monday night before any charges were leveled. i think when i talked to demonstrators out there i said why loot your own neighborhood? why do that? because you drntidn t pay attention until we did. i don t know if i understand that or agree with that completely but that s the mindset of some of those people out there causing these issues and these problems. is this a law enforcement tactic that we ve just seen unfold that if we announce we re moving on because it s over and things are better that will be the case? can we will peace? when you have 5,000 people to remove and you say you re doing it incrementally, you know, it doesn t mean that 4,900 are going to be gone by tomorrow morning. so there will be the process of drawing down will still leave people here. and they re from maryland. most of the guardsmen i talked to out here, guardsmen and women during the week were telling me they re from baltimore. so to call them back up isn t like they have to come from california or something. they re here already. yesterday i was watching the coverage when you were positioned right here. you were listening to hours of speeches. and many of them you found as a person of law enforcement background to be very uncomfortable. those speakers you heard here yesterday, some of whom were calling for anarchy, are they going to be satisfied with what they just heard from the mayor and the governor essentially saying time to move on? i don t know what would satisfy them. what the woman with a bullhorn were shouting with people cheering him on was all police are pigs all police are bad, we don t need any police, all of our brothers and sisters who were arrested claiming to burn businesses the rioters, essentially, should be let out, they re good people, and everybody should be let out of jail and all police should be either eliminated or put in jail. but i mean let s be honest i had to listen to that for two hours, evan. it was enough. he doesn t represent not even like you know what? that would be true if they stood silent and get him out of here. but there were a couple thousand people on this grass lawn over here cheering every time he said we don t need the police. again, they don t represent the majority of the people people in sand town went to work yesterday. a lot of people were not out here. and i don t think you talk to people out here, they do not agree with that. they want to be able to call the police and get help when they need it. they will when they get home. but they were out here cheering him on. the people who came here some of the people were definitely trying to voice it was a different group what we saw. a lot of outside presence anarchists anonymous types. opportunists. professional protesters michael. who came here. that s not the way to do it. you saw people coming taking the bus and coming to ferguson to try to take advantage of the situation. i think what we re saying is we hope the people who are truly representative of the community here who have to live here want peace here will not be led astray by others who ve arrived here in baltimore just for agitation purposes. those conversations of healing have already started. gentlemen, thank you so much for spending a full hour with us. we hadn t anticipated events to play out the way they did, but glad we were here live. i m michael smerconish in baltimore. remember you can follow me on twitter, @smerconish if you can spell it. frederickaricka whitfield picks up our coverage right after this break. why do we do it? 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in sanford, florida. zimmerman s defense team will pick off where it left friday. we have our legal team ahead to talk about what can be expected. at least five people are dead and police say many more deaths are expected after an unmanned train explodes and levels part of the canadian town near the u.s. border. we ll have a live report straight ahead. let s start in san francisco. investigators are trying to piece together what happened just before noon yesterday when a plane crashed on the runway. the flight recorders had been recovers. the ntsb tweeted out these photos of the flight data recorder and cockpit voice recorder. investigators hope that will give some critical clues. here s what we know about the victims. two 16-year-old girls were killed in that crash. they are chinese nationals. asiana airlines identifies them as ye mengyuan and wang linjia. a doctor at san francisco general hospital told us last hour six people there remain in critical condition including a child. officials say they re seeing severe injuries like head trauma and paralysis. the faa said this afternoon some flights destined for san francisco could be delayed up to nine hours today. dan simon joins us live from the airport. what is the latest there. dan. reporter: hi, fredericka. it s been a little more than 24 hours since this crash happened and the investigation appears to be well under way. investigators have been out to that scene trying to figure out any type of clue to determine what may have heaped here. we know, as you reported, the flight data record have been sent to washington and appear to be in good shape. hopefully data is currently being extracted from the recorders. at this point, nothing has been ruled out including pilot error. we know the ceo of the airlines say it appears there was no mechanical issue or problem with the engine either. survivors and witnesses say it appears the 7-year-old aircraft was flying too low as it approached the runway and the tail hit the sea way before it spun out of the control. the tail was detached from the airplane along with destabilizers. technology called ils helps tell pilots where the runway is, it wasn t operating at the time of the crash and not sure if that played a role. it hasn t been operating since june and pilots have been able to navigate just fine. there was no indication from the pilots there was anything from that plane. it came as a huge shock from everyone on that plane you have this incident. there will be a news conference next hour 4:30 eastern time and hopefully have more information. i wonder travelers behind you waiting in line, how nervous are people as they try to make it to their flights. reporter: you know, folks we talked to don t appear to be nervous. this is one of those things. people believe it was an isolated incident and feel pretty safe traveling. we should point out, i looked up at the monitor a little while ago, a lot of these flights appear to be on time. this runway has four airports, two operational at least this afternoon and at this terminal, flights appear to be on time, fred. dan simon, thanks so much for keeping us posted. appreciate that. shortly after passengers escaped the wreckage, some of them began recounting their ordeal right away. take a listen to what one person said. as it landed, a hard like loud noise and the masks fell down and then like i don t know severe stuff started falling down on people and everyone starts screaming. what was falling down on people? like the luggage. reporter: what were you doing at the time? i actually was pretty scared. i don t know. reporter: a lot of people getting out of their seat? what were they doing? screaming? most of them couldn t get out of their seats because they had like seatbelts. they were struggling. did you see flames? smoke? yes. before like leaving i saw some smoke in the cabin, i think. frightening moments as san francisco s fire chief said, it s nothing short of a miracle so many people walked away from this disaster. 123 in all. the concern right now falls on those who didn t come through the crash all right, especially those who remain in critical condition. c cnn s kyung lah joins us now from the hospital with the latest. we heard about the doctors earlier who talked about the head injuries and paralysis and even burns. tell us more about the status of the patients there. reporter: extensive injuries. this is a level one trauma unit in the city. the most seriously injured came here. the chief of surgery came out to speak with us. she was saying this is the largest trauma many she has ever dealt with and maybe the largest ever this hospital has ever dealt with. 53 patients were brought here in the immediate aftermath of the plane crash, 19 patients admitted and six in critical condition. one of those six is a child. as you were saying, there are extensive injuries, the most concerning head trauma and spinal injuries, two spinal injuries which resulted in some form of paralysis. the other thing she mentioned, there was something surprising about some of the injuries, it was like skin burn injuries, like they were experiencing road rash, something you might see in a motorcycle accident if they re not wearing leather to protect their skin. she said that was little surprising. if you look what these passengers went through and hear their stories, you can see how some people got those injuries looking at this wreckage. then, so often after tragedies, experiences like this, people don t want to talk. quite the opposite here. many folks eager to recount their experiences. reporter: some of the people here at this hospital and being allowed to leave, 19 are being admitted and a lot are leaving and walking through this parking lot. one of the mothers spoke with us, chatting with us, she is the mother traveling with five members of her family, seated at the rear of the plane. her 4-year-old child has a broken leg. she recounted the harrowing tail what it felt like to sit in the rear of the plane, when the tail broke off, there was such a large hole, she walked out of the rear of the plane. here s what she told us. reporter: how difficult was it to get off the plane? it s not very difficult because we sit near the plane tail, we just walk out, two rows to the big hull. the tail? it s broken. yes. a big hole. the passengers near the the plane tail just walk out from this hole. think about how extraordinary that must be to be seated at the rear of the plane and then suddenly look out, turn around and that s all gone, it s a big hole you re walking out of, carrying your injured child. this is one of the many many remarkable stories we re hearing on the go around. incredible. are doctors saying anything about whether they expect any to be released today? reporter: i m sorry. can you say that one more time? are doctors say iing anythin about whether any patients might be released today? reporter: there are other patients kind of coming and going. it s hard to say if there are going to be any more released. what the hospital would say is that the extent of the other injuries ranged from serious to fair to good. it is very possible other patients may be leaving today which will certainly be very good news. very hopeful. thanks so much, kyung lah at san francisco general hospital. we will hear from another survivor in a few minutes joining us live how he was able to walk away but he s recalling what happened in the last 24 hours, almost like a slide show that keeps come back over and over again. happening in arizona, the bodies of 19 fallen firefighters are being taken in a procession from phoenix to prescott, part of an elite hotshot group of firefighters who died last sunday fighting arizona wildfires. those fires are now about 90% contained. in egypt s capital, crowds are growing, a show of force by the opposition and muslim brotherhood. supporters of the deposed president are demanding his reinstatement while opponents of the muslim brotherhood are rallying in another part of cairo. the military is bracing for what could be a very long night, increasing security in cairo. it took 77 years, 77 years for that moment to happen. for a brit to win the wimbledon title. that s andy murray celebrating his championship over former champion novak djokovic in straight sets. murray made it to the final last year, before losing to roger federer. i think everyone remembers that. this time, after his win, murray, what did he do? he tweeted, like everybody else these days and tweeted this. can t believe what s just happened. also ecstatic for him, actor russell crowe, he tweeted as well. he tweeted andy murray, you champion, well done son. all right. what is it like to survive a plane crash? we ll be finding out from someone who was there. we ll hear from the man who took these images. he was on board flight 214 taking images after walking off that plane. what was that experience like? his thoughts right after this. i just knew we were going to have a crash and i thought, now s my time. and then when it hits the you know, the runway so hard, yeah, it was obvious. did you think anything about your life? your daughter? out there owning it. the ones getting involved and staying engaged. they re not afraid to question the path they re on. because the one question they never want to ask is how did i end up here? i started schwab for those people. people who want to take ownership of their investments, like they do in every other aspect of their lives. unh hey! let s go! [ male announcer ] you can choose to blend in. yeah! yeah! yeah! or you can choose to blend out. oh, yeah-eah! the all-new 2014 lexus is. it s your move. in cairo, the crowds are getting bigger and fierce. neither the muslim brotherhood or opposition has any interest in giving up. here s cnn s karl penhaul. reporter: i will step out of the way and show you the scene right now in tahrir square. these are opponents of the deposed president, mohamed mo i morsi, and they are gathering in tens of thousands and still arriving in the square right now. from time-to-time we see an overflight by military helicopters, apache helicopters flying over, small fighter jets flying over pumping out smoke the color of egyptian flags. that s an effort by the military to show they re on this crowd s side and a fact not lost on these people. they very much believe it s thanks to the military they were able to push mohamed morsi out of power during the week. they certainly reject the term military coup. the crowd down here very much believe the military simply stepped into politics to back the will of the people. across the other side of town right now, supporters of the deposed president are also meeting. we haven t got eyes on the go around and i can t tell you how big they are. there are tens of thousands across there as well. what they are calling for is that mr. morsi from release by s by the arms forces and be reinstated to power. it s no sign the armed forces will back down on that one. what is playing out on the streets once again tonight is a show of numbers. karl penhaul will keep us posted on that. venezuela says it s doors are open to nsa leaker ed snowden. the country has not heard from him. they extended an offer of i si lum friday. but the mm-mmm said they haven t had any communication with snowden. and venezuela said it will offer asylum if circumstances permit. the crisis in egypt all impa impacting the u.s. in one way or and the obama administration. bill richardson, former ambassador to the u.n. thank you so much. thank you. let s talk about this nsa leaker, edward snowden, bolivia, venezuela offering asylum. first, he has to get to one of those places. if he does, can the u.s. intercept him in transit? i think the u.s. has to be careful. the overflights in europe have caused these latin-american countries basically offer asylum to snowden. i have no sympathy for snowden. i think he needs to be prosecuted. i think it s right we re telling these countries, bolivia, venezuela, it s a big dent in the relationship if they take it. what i don t understand, i was at the venezuelan elections, they want time prove the new post chavez government relationship with the u.s. they said that to me. i was an election observer and said that to the administration. now, they say they re ready to take snowden. i hope venezuela reverses itself with bolivia and nicaruaga less so. i think the u.s. has to pursue our interests. what snowden did was unacceptable. you can t just decide unilaterally to leak things. it s not loyalty to the united state states. might there be double-talk involving those countries, bolivia, nicaruaga, and venezuela? they re saying publicly they offer asylum and another thing to carry through with it. i hope venezuela reverses itself. i hope it s double part on their part. these countries have been hostile to the united states. i think what provoked this, possibly i have no i m not privy to details when president morales was flying over europe maybe we said to some of our friends in europe don t let him overfly there because we think snowden is possibly there. that could have happened but since i m not privy to these details, it could have clumsily happened. what is your opinion as to this coup, some calling it a coup and some not but clearly a changing of the guard there. how involved and to what extent should the u.s. be involved? we should be involved. the administration has to walk a very thin line. let s face it. this is what we re for. we should be loyal to the rule of law, to a democratic process in elections but also the stability. what are u.s. interests? we re better off without the muslim brotherhood in power. we re better off because of the treaty with israel 1979 egypt brings stability to the israel process, the palestinian process. secondly, we need the military in egypt on terrorism issues. i think what we need to do. we have a little leverage here. we provide $1.3 billion to the egyptian military. we should push them as much as we can to make sure there a s inclusiveness in an interim government, they condone violence, they try to keep things cool. i was disappointed mohamed elbaradei who appeared to be the interim minister. i worked with him when he was secretary of the atomic energy agency. he s a democratic stable guy, ran for president and won the mobell prize. i guess he s out. he would have been a good moderate force and this is what we should be pushing for. moderation, rule of law, transparency. announced elections soon and hope a non-muslim brotherhood candidate wins i think would happen because the muslim brotherhood is so unpopular because they were not inclusive, mismanaged the economy and took over the courts. doesn t seem they re that unpopular when you look at live pictures in the crowd because the pictures we re looking atta her square apparently that does represent the muslim brotherhood and those who oppose the ousted president, morsi. in your view, is that a concern when look at that crowd or inspiration this does represent a form of democracy speaking out? it is a form of democracy, it is people expressing their views. the reality in a free and fair election in egypt, the muslim brotherhood, no chance they would win because they mismanaged their one year in office. morsi screwed up. what is needed, i believe, is the military to provide the stability that leads to a democratic process. the administration can t say we d prefer the military. i think they ve handled it well. they said we re for rule of law, for democracy. i was with some intelligence specialists in fenwick island. i think the view there is we have leverage. let s be judicious howie u we ut and i think the administration has done that so far. bill richardson, thank you for your time. we will talk more about that crash landing in san francisco. what is it like to survive something like that? we ll be talking to someone who was they re and actually took a number of images after walking off the plane. looking at the pictures, so many of us agree and have the same thought, how in the world did so many escape this disaster of that flight 214. picket pictures like these give us an idea what it was like for those scrambling out of the plane. eugene took these photos after making his way out of the hull of that plane. a very rare close-up look of the crash site and he spoke with cnn earlier. water was right there. the plane was descending like this, right? which is normal. this is the front part of the aircraft. this is the rear. there s a runway here and they suppose to come like this or i saw the plane was like this. if we go this altitude, there s 100% chance we will hit the runway before we touch the go around. reporter: were you panicking? yeah. of course. of course. i knew it. i knew. i knew it was going to happen. so i tried to hold on to, you know, whatever i could. and i hear the noise, the pilot try to send as much power as he could, try to lift the plane back up but it didn t work. so before even the plane go back up, they only lift the front part of, you know, the plane a little bit maybe. as soon as i, you know, grab, you know, anything that i could hold on to, was like, you know, bang, and impact was so powerful. luckily, i was sitting, it has one more strap coming across my chest here, in addition to the one that goes around the waist because there s a slip per sit. if i did not, i d have hit that ceiling. that s how hard the impact was. reporter: so what is that time period when you looked out the window, you saw the water and you knew. uh-huh. reporter: and it hit. how quickly did that happen? everything happened all at once, in lightning speed. i looked out and i just felt that, you know, we were too low, we were coming too low. i tried to grab something and hit, bang! and the plane was tilted like this for some time and hit the go around again. i thought, you know, that was it. i thought i m dying. and people scream and crying and, you know, it was chaos. wow. chaos. but, look at so much composure as he s telling that story, survivor eugene rah speaking to us earlier. the flight recorders from asiana flight 214 already at an ntsb lab in the washington d.c. area. they could hold critical information about what caused that crash. we ll take you for an update what investigators will be looking for. 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[ minions gasp, chuckle ] ohhh! ohhh! one day the world. no, the universe will have the pricing power they deserve. mouhahaha! mouhahaha! mouhahaha! ooh-hee-hee-hee! blaaaah! we ll work on it. wah-hah-hah! stopping at nothing to help you save. ntsb investigators are examining the flight recorders from asiana airline flight 214 a day aircraft crash landed on the runway. we re expecting to hear more from ntsb in about an hour from now. two 16-year-old girls died on that flight. they were both chinese. news outlets in china say they were students on their way to a summer camp in the u.s. at least five people are dead and police say many more deaths are expected after an unmanned train explodes and levels part of a canadian town near the u.s. border. a live report straight ahead. the george zimmerman murder trial is set to resume tomorrow in sanford, florida. the defense will continue after calling zimmerman s mother to the stand on friday. we ll bring in our own legal panel in a minute for more legal analysis. art collector charles sachi and hiss famous chef wife nigella is getting a divorce. the chef says he is seeking a breakup. it comes after photos were published of him with his hands around nigella s throat at a restaurant last month. it took 77 years for this moment to happen. [ applause ] what a final play it was. a british player, now once again, winning wimbledon title. that s andy murray right there, celebrating after beating former champion novak djokovic in straight sets. murray made it to the final last year before losing to roger federer. who can forget that? this time around, murray took to twitter after typing this. can t believe what s just happened! as we mentioned, the flight data recorders from asiana flight 214 have arrived from washington being examined by ntsb. in the meantime the go-team is on the go around at the airport in san francisco and they ve been there since early this morning. cnn a cnn s reporter is here with us this morning. what do they expect to glean from the boxes. they ve had the recorders more than six hours now and investigators will likely be targeting specific parts of the recording leading up to the crash landing. they can tell them what the pilots were doing or saying and they were even aware there was a problem. the data recording is monitoring specifics like altitude, speed, which could answer whether the plane was going too fast or slow or pilot coming in at the correct angle and also tell whether the plane s systems or engine or landing gear were working. fred. how long is it expected? we talked with a former.official earlier who said it really could be as early as this evening when they start to get a better handle of the information. is that about right? right. that s about right. the ntsb telling us likely by this afternoon, they would have a preliminary readout of what is on those two recorders. don t be surprised if when we see this press conference happen in about an hour they actually have information about what was on those recorders. so it s very possible when they give that first briefing of the day we may get some information about what they were able to find. fred. you heard dan simon reporting earlier about the instrument landing system at the airport, that it hadn t been working for some time now. might that have played a role in this? is this something investigators will be looking into? the equipment dan is talking about is the glide scope essentially out of service more than a month. it signals to the plane to provide the pilot sends signals to the plane to provide the pilot with a precise path to follow during the approach. essentially what it was to do is ensure the plane isn t either too high or too low. even though this equipment wasn t working, the ntsb chairman says planes can still land safely. take a listen. there has already been a discussion about that glide slope being out of service. but there are a number of other tools available to pilots, some less sophisticated like the lights, the precision approach lights that they were talking about that show you if you re too high or too low coming in, but also some things more technologically advanced. things on this airplane that can give you gps information. so you hear her there saying despite the fact that equipment wasn t working at the airport, planes can still land safely and just final note here, fred, again, our folks on the go around in san francisco, getting word from the ntsb whatever information comes out of this first briefing, it will be quite substantial. really? we look forward to that. thank you so much. re rene marsh from washington. now to that deadly train accident in a canadian town near the u.s. border. people are dead and missing after it rolled seven miles down a hill. it exploded and leveled a small town in quebec. more deaths are likely. cnn s jason carroll is covering the story. what are authorities saying? reporter: disturbing watching these images coming in. some sections still too dangerous for emergency crews to get there in and search. officials say they are expecting more deaths as they continue, unfolding early saturday morning when a crane pulling 70 tankers of crude oil crashed and went down hill in the quebec provi e province, lak megantic. more than 2,000 people, one woman works at a bar and many people unaccounted for says she is still searching for her friends. lac-megantic. reporter: i have no news from my friends, she says, i haven t heard from any. i can t say more than that. we re waiting for confirmation. some are calling it the run away train, confirming the train was locked down by the locomotive engineer and then left for a crew change. according to the company, the train skidded into the town unmanned. the company released a statement saying we extend heartfelt condolences to those residences of lac-megantic who have lost their homes and businesses and particularly those who lost their homes and businesses and loved ones. we will work and cooperate with government safety agencies to determine a cause. the prime minister says his office is prepared to offer whatever assistance might be needed? terribly sad. thank you. we ll be back with more on that plane crash in san francisco. the national transportation safety board is going over the flight data recorders. let s bring in todd curtis. you being a former boeing engineer, you know this plane well. based on the debris field, the aircraft appears to have struck that rock seawall at the start of the runway. what do you extrapolate based on what you ve seen? very clearly because it struck the seawall over 1,000 feet from the likely intended landing point. it s clear it was possibly too low, and flying different than it should have. they wanted to have a particular path through the sky, weren t able to maintain that path and at the last minute, weren t able to get enough altitude to avoid that wall. would that be an unstabilized approach because of the execution of that landing or might it be any kind of mechanical failure of that plane short of that runway? is there a way to know? it s hard to see a any without getting the information from the cockpit voice recorder and flight data recorder, it s hard to know what because given that the weather was relatively clear and that in fact they were flying under visual flight rules, it should have been a relatively straightforward approach for an airline pilot to make unless there s something else going on with the aircraft or indications in the cockpit to mislead the pilot to fly the way they did. for a flight like this, 10 hours from seoul to san francisco, it s not unusual that the plane would be on auto pilot. upon approach, a landing like this at san francisco, might the pilots be in total control? it would no longer be on au autopilot, correct? that s correct. during the beginning and takeoff and end of the flight during landing, pilots have a lot more input what s going on than during the cruise portion. because this was a relative ly good condition day, this would not be one they rely on automated systems to do most of the work for them. based on everything you heard from eyewitness accounts, witnesses saying they saw the nose pitched up or passengers on the plane who talk about the scraping sound and the plane hitting the go around and it appeared maybe the pilot was trying to correct and go back up into the air, of all the stuff you have heard, is there a way you can kind of surmise or kind of finalize what may have potentially happened here? what went wrong? the one report i really listened to closely was from the passengers, more than one said before it struck the wall there was a sound of the engine schooling up, trying to power. that s consistent trying to gain altitude or airspeed to get above that wall and the other is the gi met tri call fact. in a normal approach, normal landing, the first thing to touch would be the landing gear. in this case, it looks like the tail of the aircraft was the first thing to hit the go around, which says to me, at the very end of the flight, that perhaps the angle the aircraft had was considerably greater than you usually have on a normal landing. todd curtis, thank you so much. we do understand the flight data recorders are being evaluated right now. preliminarily we could he hear at least the ntsb might have a better idea what might or might not have happened as early as this afternoon or evening. perhaps they ll make it public. we re not quite sure and thanks for your input and we ll have you back here to understand all the bits and pieces. appreciate that. next, we re heading to florida where george zimmerman s defense team takes center stage again tomorrow. they ve already presented two key witness, families of george zimmerman. after this. 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ask your doctor about once-a-day xarelto®. for more information including cost support options, call 1-888-xarelto or visit goxarelto.com. the george zimmerman murder trial is set to resume tomorrow in sanford, florida and when the defense resumes calling it s case. they started by calling george zimmerman s mother to the stand. joining me, our host from radio. it was very interesting. now the defense gets to resume it s week after maybe blowing a bit of a hole into the prosecution s day on friday. how does it maintain that kind of momentum? i think they re going probably recall some of the prosecution witnesses. for example, i think they ll probably recall jonathan good, the person who testified that he saw trayvon martin on top of george zimmerman. he s the one that and i think that s somebody that will defense is going to recall. because what we saw quite often is of the prosecution witnesses, they almost turn in to defense witnesses. yes. so it bodes well for the defense. so it sounds like, mo, the defense doesn t have to do very much in terms of calling creative witnesses. does it? i wouldn t say they don t have to do very much. they should continue being strong. i hate to say it business the defense has had a good last week and i think this is a unique opportunity for the prosecution to come really hard and fast on cross-examinations. this is where they can break apart the defense witnesses and hoping that the long weekend is an opportunity to, you know, get themselves together. regroup and come back on cross-examination in a way that we haven t really seen them do on direct. both sides in florida during the breaks like weekends can depose witnesses and say if they say inconsistent with something they said on the stand or depose new witnesses that may be called. do you think the prosecution is rethinking this weekend its strategy or perhaps does the defense even have to use this weekend or has it used this weekend to say, you know what? we need to change the strategy. things unfolded quite differently than i think the general public expected it to. yes. i m sure both sides have rethought strategy. the prosecution, unfortunately, really only has cross and closing but the defense at this point really has a wide open door to present witnesses that can present testimony that creates that reasonable doubt. i think we are there with the reasonable doubt and they ll do anything in the power to create more idea. i think the prosecution i mean, you can t call them finished and done yet. there s a long way to go and there s important testimony that came from trayvon s mother, brother, that kind of will give what s that in your view? just the change idea that trayvon was a street kid just out and up to no good. this is a college educated family and takes everything seriously and i don t think we got that before his mother came on and his brother came on and that changed why does that matter? he wasn t a suspect of anything. he was just walking through the neighborhood. sure. it matters because of how the prosecution witnesses like rachel jeantel, for example, really damaged the image of trayvon and what he was doing and they brought it back home this is a very good, upstanding kid and i think that will go to, you know, why was george zimmerman really doing that? maybe he was going of and profiling trayvon. i think it s a big impact. i think the prosecution rather than just the defense has a unique opportunity to change things this week if they handle the cross-examinations correctly. carrie, we have heard testimony this past week from witnesses that talked about whether it was what they saw or heard who was on top and bottom. right. what does it really matter when the bottom line is one was armed and the other was not? because of the florida law and the florida law is unique in some ways because it says even if somebody started out aggressor, if they re a victim at some point in an altercation such that they were in fear of their bodily safety and they believed that they were going to suffer a serious bodily harm they are justified in taking a life. armed or not armed, if that agrgressor was a victim at some point, he could useletal force. i don t think at all anything we heard this week whether he was moved or he was on top, has changed the fact that george zimmerman was the aggressor. i don t think that swayed the testimony to say, oh my gosh, really, trayvon was the aggressor. i think the jurors are seeing it that way and i feel from hearing people that were in the courtroom talking about the reaction from the jurors that the jurors are a little bit more pro prosecution this week. dy i disagree, actually. the definition of an aggressor is different and may not be physical aggression. all right. thanks so much. we ll see how the week unfolds and hopefully talk to you next weekend, as well. thanks so much. web ta have been talking ab the san francisco crash landing. new images to bring you right after the break. back to our developing story, the crash landing in san francisco. extraordinary, new, exclusive video of the plane coming in for a landing. dan simon has more on this. dan? reporter: hi, fredericka. we obtained the video of fred hays. he is an aviation buff. he had gone to a place where you could see these planes taking off and landing. and he was able to capture the crash on video. let s play that for you right now. look at him. hmm. that yeah, he does. look at that one! look how his nose is up in the air. oh my god! oh, it s an accident. oh, you re filming it, too. oh my god! oh no! oh my god! you re filming it! oh my god! oh my god! oh my god! you filmed the whole thing. oh lord have mercy. well, that is pretty dramatic stuff, fredericka. when you look at that video, i have had a chance to view it a few times now, you can clearly see that plane coming in low and then the tail of the aircraft striking that sea wall. what you re seeing on that video, accurately portrays exactly what we have been hearing from the witnesses and survivors of that plane. this is very dramatic video. this is exclusive video we just got in. i assume we re still seeing the images. you can hear the reaction from the amateur photographer that s fred hays capturing that video. the first images that we are seeing. i would imagine that investigators will be interested in taking a look at this video, as well, as they try to piece together what, in fact, happened there. dan, that is incredible. it definitely does seem to demonstrate exactly what so many eyewitnesss said, that when they saw that plane coming in. the nose was pitched up. you heard it from the audio, fred hay fred hayes and clearly no problem with the landing because you have another plane on an active runway ready for takeoff. dan simon, you will tell us more about this. i m fredericka whitfield. thank you, dan, for that exclusive image there of that plane in that crash landing there at san francisco airport. we ll have much more straight ahead from the newsroom. all right. don lemon in new york. don? all right. thank you very much. i m don relon. the newsroom starts right now. we ll start where we left off with dan. we want to play the video for you now. look at him. hmm. yeah, yeah, he does. look at that one. look how his nose is up in the air. oh my god! oh, it s an accident! you re filming it, too. oh my god. oh no! oh my god. oh my god! oh my god! oh my god.
that s it for me. thanks for watching. tune in tomorrow where i am speaking with congressman jerry connelly. plus, senior adviser and spoke s person for president biden s campaign, adrienne elrod joins us to talk importance of border security to voters ahead of november s election tomorrow at 6:00 p.m. eastern on msnbc. follow us on social media using the handle, at weekend capehart. listened every episode of our show as a podcast for free. scan the qr code on your screen to follow. but, keep it right here. a frightening film about a serial killer. robert barnsley: .he d say, when you re turning the blade, grit your teeth and really really show that you re enjoying it. we had talked about how would you kill somebody and get away with it. i had dark thoughts and shared them with the serial killer. it was supposed to be a movie, a frightening film about a serial killer. you grit your teeth and really show that you on bare enjoying it. but, was it really just pretend? eels get down on the ground and took out duct tape. i have never in my life felt fear like that. a rising young film director filming a murder, or actually committing one? he told me well, you liked dexter. when you take a step back you realize this is a real man who has been murdered. the script was darker than anyone knew. like holy mackerel. who are you, really? everyone was on the edge of their seat. and underground parking garage, you are watching a violent attack caught on tape. who was this? what is happening? or, did it happen at all? movies, like that one, are by design, deceptive. make-believe worlds, but have you noticed maybe it is all the technical doodads and digital cameras. some stories that claim to be true or not. anybody can manipulate reality, sometimes what they say is true is it. sometimes, fiction turns out to be fact, and then there are stories, just a few, and which fact and fiction fuse and that is where we are going tonight, a twilight zone world of illusion and deception and deceit. follow the howling wind north across a vast prairie through brief, brilliant summers and winters as frigid as any on earth to a metropolis canadians call the gateway to the north, the city whose police department stays very busy. this is detective bill clark. the city is edmonton, canada. today i got a call from a family whose son was killed in december. nothing in a career so strange as the case of a man who went missing and bill clark found himself in another world between fantasy and illusion. have you ever seen a case like this before? never in my life. when it started out, it seemed perfectly simple, a missing man, some guy just dropped out of sight, the kind of thing that tends to sort itself out once the so-called victim sobers up. i m not thinking much is going to come of this. after clark s decades of service in the city with the highest murder rate in canada, you can hardly blame them for getting a little picky. we don t usually go to missing person. unfortunately, for us to come out you ve got to be dead and it had better be criminal. if the patrolman doesn t know it s criminal, don t bother calling us. yeah, you got enough to do. which explains perhaps why some of the locals have taken to calling their city, deadmonton. our concern is, do we have a foul play. the missing person in this case is a man by the name of john altinger. 39, single, worked in the oil industry, liked to ride motorcycles. unlucky with women, yet, a wide circle of friends who are now telling the police altinger seem to have dropped off the face of the earth except the strange emails he was sending. i ve left with a woman, i m going to costa rica. one of the recipients of those old emails, his old friend, debra taichrob. i received several of them. i received six altogether, but in runs of three. the exact same message? hi there, i ve met a wonderful girl named jen. i m going to costa rica and i will keep in touch and call you when i get back after the holidays. johnny. almost formal, and away, suddenly like somebody you didn t really know was sending you an email. absolutely, and i was like that s really odd, it doesn t sound like john. it was odd, and even more so when another friend of altinger s received exactly the same message word for word and altinger s facebook status change from single to in a relationship. i think it was the following day, i was on msn messenger and johnny popped on mine, so i thought oh, he must not have left on his vacation yet, and it said johnny, his name, and then in quotations beside his name, who says i ve got a one- way ticket to heaven and i m never coming back. later that same day, debra got a call from the same friend who told her john altinger seems to be missing. it s surreal, you know. you don t expect your friends to go missing. soon, altinger s friends got together, unsure of what to do, really but before going to police, they decided to try to get into his condo, to see if they could find a clue what happened to get the guy in the break-in, actually. everything looked fine. nothing out of place, no sign of any struggle. the only things missing were his wallet, his keys and his red mazda coop, so it was as if he had gone out for a drive and could be back any minute. there were no answers to anything, like he just vanished out of thin air. except for those strange emails he had supposedly sent about falling in love and coaster rica, which to the cops, said clark, seemed perfectly reasonable. not hard to imagine that a lovestruck man might want to leave the snow and ice of edmonton behind and skip off to the tropics. the sky send these emails to his friends and we are going well, that strange, but maybe he did go to costa rica. stranger things have happened. you never know. that is how clark felt before he stepped through the looking glass. coming up, detective clark is about to follow john altinger s trail into a strange place of make-believe , and up-and- coming directors makeshift movie studio. it s a suspense thriller, actually. it s a short film. as soon as they called me on the phone, i got this weird chill. when dateline continues. with wegovy®, i lost 35 pounds. and some lost over 46 pounds. and i m keeping the weight off. wegovy® helps you lose weight and keep it off. i m reducing my risk. wegovy® is the only fda-approved weight-management medicine that s proven to reduce risk of major cardiovascular events in adults with known heart disease and with either obesity or overweight. wegovy® shouldn t be used with semaglutide or glp-1 medicines. don t take wegovy® if you or your family had medullary thyroid cancer, multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2, or if allergic to it. stop wegovy® and get medical help right away if you get a lump or swelling in your neck, severe stomach pain, or an allergic reaction. serious side effects may happen, including pancreatitis and gallbladder problems. wegovy® may cause low blood sugar in people with diabetes, especially if you take medicines to treat diabetes. tell your provider about vision problems or changes, or if you feel your heart racing while at rest. depression or thoughts of suicide may occur. call your provider right away if you have any mental changes. common side effects like nausea, vomiting, and diarrhea may lead to dehydration, which may cause kidney problems. with wegovy®, i m losing weight, i m keeping it off. and i m lowering my cv risk. that s the power of we. check your cost and coverage before talking to your health care professional about wegovy®. you re the one that i want nexgard® combo is the only monthly topical that protects against fleas, ticks, tapeworms, and more. use with caution in cats with a history of seizures or neurologic disorders. nexgard combo,. you re the one that i want .the monthly one-and-done you want. introducing new advil targeted relief. the only topical pain reliever with 4 powerful pain-fighting ingredients that start working on contact to target tough pain at the source. for up to 8 hours of powerful relief. new advil targeted relief. [coughing] copd isn t pretty. i m out of breath, and often out of the picture. but this is my story. ( ) and with once-daily trelegy, it can still be beautiful. because with 3 medicines in 1 inhaler, trelegy keeps my airways open for a full 24 hours and prevents future flare-ups. trelegy also improves lung function, so i can breathe more freely all day and night. trelegy won t replace a rescue inhaler for sudden breathing problems. tell your doctor if you have a heart condition or high blood pressure before taking it. do not take trelegy more than prescribed. trelegy may increase your risk of thrush, pneumonia, and osteoporosis. call your doctor if worsened breathing, chest pain, mouth or tongue swelling, problems urinating, vision changes, or eye pain occur. what a wonderful world [laughing] ask your doctor about once-daily trelegy for copd because breathing should be beautiful, all day and night. condominium, as you can see, looked like anything because breathing should be beautiful, but a crime scene. there were no signs of a struggle, no blood. it was like he just stepped out for a few minutes, could be back anytime. where was he? johnny s friends were convinced something awful had happened to him. so, day after day, they prodded the police; john altinger s condominium looked like anything but a crime scene. there were no signs of a struggle, no blood. it was like he just stepped out for a few minutes and could be back anytime. where was he? and johnny s friends were convinced something awful had happened to him, so day after day, they prodded the police and finally, seven days after johnny went missing, the cops agreed to open an investigation. we just started with the basics. i said with got to start out by finding out if we can find him first so let s find the car. since john altinger s email said he had taken off for costa rica, officers went to the airport to look for that red mazda. they searched every parking lot. it wasn t here. they come through airline passenger lists. he was not on any of them. johnny s friends, meanwhile, went back to the apartment for another look and found, stashed away among his important papers, his passport. they re going oh, not getting out of the country without your passport. seemed like he had to be within driving distance but what direction where? just as the police were contemplating that puzzle, one of altinger s friends came up with another email. this one, johnny had received from a woman he met online. janet was her name, the same woman with whom he had supposedly scampered off to costa rica. they had a date and were going out on the town the night he disappeared and because he had never been to her place, she sent him an email with directions on how to pick her up and out of an abundance of caution, he sent a copy of that email to a friend of his, just in case. i can t remember the last word of the email but he says if anything happens to me, you know where i m at, and you know, laugh out loud. it wasn t a phone number or an address, but there were detailed directions to her place, so the cops drove the root, and the directions led them to this neighborhood down this alley, and to this garage rented by a guy named mark twitchell. he happened to be, in the local arts community, local celebrity. he was making a name for himself in edmonton. he had recently made a low- budget sci-fi movie so they called him up, of course, and he readily agreed to come down and open the place up. when he got here, big surprise, someone had changed the lock. he could not get in, so with permission, officers broken, had a quick look around, and found nothing. just the same, with the changed walk in the weird coincidence of the email, there were things to figure out and mark twitchell was only too happy to tag along to the police station to help out however he could. the first thing i noticed is the padlock did not look familiar to me. twitchell explained he d been using the rented garage is a soundstage most recently for what they call a teaser, a short film designed to drum up publicity , buzz, with any luck, attract enough investor money to allow him to produce a full length feature movie. it s a suspense thriller, actually. a short film. okay, so yeah, suspense thriller? of course, he had a crew in and out of the place during filming, said mark. maybe one of them was up to something but it seemed unlikely, and none of them had ever asked to borrow the set for anything. so, if there was anything like that, if somebody needed to borrow the place or whatever, then they would let me know. they d let you know. they would ask, or something like that, so no, i don t know anything about that. anyway, he said, he had moved on for now to another project. i m working on a comedy right now which is actually a full feature, with a decent budget in the neighborhood of about 3 1/2 million. in the meantime, the garage comes studio was empty, so why would someone break into the place and then change the lock, he wondered. didn t make sense. i had a padlock previously but it wasn t the same one. it was silver on the outside with a black plastic dial in the center and this one was just all metal, so. so, you notice the different padlock on the door. mystifying, said mark. he had a bad feeling about this. a man disappears after telling police he was going to the very place his movie had been shooting. as soon as they called me on the phone, i get this weird chill. what about that woman john altinger had been flirting with online, the one who gave him directions to the garage, told him she would meet him there. the woman who signed her emails jen . does the name, jen, mean anything to you? no. we don t have a jen or anything like that. so, the name jen doesn t mean anything to you? you don t know an actress named jen? so, who was this mystery woman, jen? why in the world which she arranged to meet john altinger here in the very back yard garage and independent edmonton film crew was renting for use as a studio. how odd. especially since the movies producer director, mark twitchell, expressed exactly the same confusion as the police. he didn t get it, either. the dots did not connect. mark twitchell did not know johnny from adam and besides, there was no indication johnny ever made it to the garage at all. the close friends are the ones who have come to the police and they have nothing other than his emails. there was one thing, though, and it came from mark twitchell. he wondered if maybe somebody was being set up. it just doesn t sit right, so the first thing i started asking myself is, who all knows about what we do there and what our schedule looks like and stuff like that. is the disappearance staged somehow? if someone was being fooled, who was it, and why? was all this just some big stunt even a publicity stunt? detective bill clark was thoroughly engaged by now. he had spent a career listening to criminal spender stories. maybe you could figure out if this twitchell guy was trying to play the cops somehow. he pulled the recording of the interview. and i watch an interview, i listen to what the guy says but i m looking at body language, i m looking for signs of deceit. i remember coming out of their going you know, this mark twitchell guy interviewed really well. there were no signs of deception. he is free-flowing with the information. he has answered the questions logically. i don t see any looking away, nervousness, nothing. i see nothing. and then, when police looked into twitchell s production company, they encountered a perfectly legitimate company. more than that, actually. this was a promising effort to help edmonton get some national attention as a potential center of moviemaking. mark twitchell was very good at coming up attention and money from local investors. he was a very sharp, bright, young, articulate entrepreneur. exactly the kind of individual most of us are looking for. so, he checked out. hard-working local boy in the city of hard-working people. good parents, nice young wife, sweet little daughter, on his way to becoming a celebrity here in edmonton. detectives even got a look at the teaser film for twitchell s next projects, three and half million dollar buddy comedy. that is mark in the background playing the role of director even as he was the director, sort of a hall of mirrors type story, a movie about a movie about making a movie or something. fantasy and reality all mixed up somehow. just to cover the bases, police interviewed mark twitchell s crew members and they vouched for him completely. mark twitchell came off squeaky clean. his film company was respected, as was he, and bill clark and the edmonton police back at square one by the look of things. coming up, soon, this tough cop would catch a big break. we got a phone call from a detective. the detective says you won t believe it but this guy just told me he found a red mazda out there. the missing man s car turns up when dateline continues. urns up when dateline continues. -cologuard®? -cologuard. cologuard! -screen for colon cancer. -at home, like you want. -you the man! cologuard is for people 45+ at average risk, not high risk. false positive and negative results may occur. ask your provider for cologuard. i did it my way nothing dims my light like a migraine. with nurtec odt, i found relief. the only migraine medication that helps treat and prevent, all in one. to those with migraine, i see you. for the acute treatment of migraine with or without aura and the preventive treatment of episodic migraine in adults. don t take if allergic to nurtec odt. allergic reactions can occur, even days after using. most common side effects were nausea, indigestion, and stomach pain. it s time we all shine. talk to a healthcare provider about nurtec odt from pfizer. a slow network is no network for business. talk to a healthcare provider that s why more choose comcast business. and now, we re introducing ultimate speed for business our fastest plans yet. we re up to 12 times faster than verizon, at&t, and t-mobile. and existing customers could even get up to triple the speeds. at no additional cost. it s ultimate speed for ultimate business. don t miss out on our fastest speed plans yet! switch to comcast business and get started for $49.99 a month. plus, ask how to get up to an $800 prepaid card. call today! bill clark:ok, i m going to get out here. keith morrison: (voiceover) bill clark is, he doesn t mind admitting it, an old school detective, of the sort that seems to exist more on the big screen than the mean streets. det. bill clark:you guys here last night? keith morrison: (voiceover) in fact, bill clark is an old-school detective, the sort that seems to exist more on the big screen than the mean streets. in fact, clark is such a throwback, the younger guys on the fourth kid him. they call him simple it s after the old hard-nosed detective on the top show, nypd blue. i still like coming to work every day. it s just part of my life. i still have the drive. i m still excited about it. in his decades on the edmonton police force, clark and scene murder take many forms, had seen the shattering effect it has on the family. you are the one the family depends on and i take that seriously. ultimately, that is in the back of your mind, that if you don t speak for the family or the dead guy, who is going to? for clark, there is no greater satisfaction than bringing in a killer. i consider myself a pitbull. you get a case and you get your teeth into it. we want to get the guy, we want to get this guy and put them away. as for the john altinger case, this wasn t even a murder, at least, not as far as anyone new yet, so clark kept himself on a tight leash . he had yet to smell blood. he must ve come to some point where you thought oh, there is definitely foul play here. no, not at all. all that they had, after all, was a missing man, johnny, who might just have driven off somewhere with her without some mystery woman named jen. certainly that would account for the fact that his red mazda coop was gone, too, but really aside from a few curious emails that might or might not make any sense, there was not much to go on, so being cops, clark and his colleagues employed standard procedure. they double back for a second look at things, like the garage johnny was apparently headed for when he vanished. we are thinking our next step logically as the garage. so, they applied for a search warrant and it was rejected. it gets turned down because we are told we have not proven there was a crime committed. so, the next step seemed simple enough. clark went to mark twitchell directly to see if he would give permission to search the garage. he goes yeah. i says i ll need you to sign a consent form. he goes no problem. they requisitioned the form, one of the detectives drove it over to mark s place to get a signature and then, the weirdest thing. i get a phone call from the detective. the detective says to me he says you won t believe it, but the guy just told me he bought a red mazda. a red mazda and didn t john altinger drive a red mazda and was in it missing? mark twitchell had not said anything about a red mazda when he came down to the police station and spoke to the detective the night before. he said he forgot. really? why would he forget i like that ? you don t want to get tunnel vision. i for homicide investigation, don t get tunnel vision so keep an open mind so i pull myself back. there is something fishy going on. clark invited twitchell to come back down to the station for a meeting at 10:30 on sunday night, and twitchell agreed. everything you do now, we are analyzing. we caught the up arrow down our scenario. the burial and up arrow for marcuse cooperative. the missing car, big down arrow. but, that s about all clark had to work with. we are just here trying to find this john fellow, john altinger. i don t know what s happened to johnny. because, once again, as the interview proceeds, the young filmmaker is the very picture of cooperation. he volunteers information, answers questions without hesitation or guile. his demeanor is expensive. even an untrained eye can see twitchell s body language is open, comfortable, and control. so, they get to the story about the red monster. he was approached, he said, a few blocks from his rented garage by an agitated man. it was the night johnny disappeared. the man seemed desperate to get rid of his car, said mark. he offered to sell it for practically nothing. he goes well, i shacked up with this really rich lady, you know, it s like a sugar mama kind of situation and she s going to take care of me and she s going to buy me a new car will we get back from a vacation regular take. and i and okay, is there like cocaine in the truck? i m trying to figure out what the catch is here. apparently, said mark, there was no catch, and nothing wrong with the car except that it had a standard transmission, which he didn t know how to drive, so he left it parked in a friend s driveway. does he live close by? yes, a couple of blocks away. is it finally a break? the detective monitoring the interview sent a patrol car to check it out and sure enough, there it was, empty, by the look of it. nothing untoward about the car. johnny is not in the car. meanwhile, bill clark left the interview room partly to regroup, but also to see how mark would act when they left him alone, and if he was rattled, he certainly didn t show it. here, he calmly placed a call to his wife. well, i tried to answer some more questions and fill them in and everything like that and it turns out that the car is, in fact, belonging to this missing guy and that it s a huge deal. that s what this whole thing is about. what in heavens name was going on? bill clark still did not have a clue. but he might in a minute, because bill clark good cop was about to become bill clark bad cop. coming up there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that you are involved in the disappearance of john altinger. you might be involved, but what was fact and what was fantasy? when dateline continues. when dateline continues. nexium 24hr prevents heartburn acid for twice as long as pepcid. get all-day and all-night heartburn acid prevention with just one pill a day. choose acid prevention. choose nexium. nexgard® plus helps you protect your dog from fleas, ticks, heartworm disease, and more. all in one delicious, monthly, soft chew. use with caution in dogs with a history of seizures or neurologic disorders. nexgard® plus: the one you want for one-and-done protection. nexium 24hr prevents heartburn acid before it begins. get all-day and all-night heartburn acid prevention with just one pill a day. choose acid prevention. choose nexium. israel is saying they rescued four hostages during a raid in gaza. the hostages were kidnapped during the nova music festival october 7th last year. officials meanwhile say more than 200 palestinians were killed in strikes by israel nearby, marking one of the bloodiest single days seen in eight months of war. pro-palestinian protesters descended on the white house to voice their frustration with the president s handling of the israel hamas war so far. for now, back to dateline. almost 4:00 a.m. now, downtown edmonton. filmmaker mark twitchell was sitting in an interview room at the playstation tasking talking to his wife on the phone, fading a little. outside the room, detective bill clark watch twitchell, went over a few notes, prepared to switch tactics. it s already started. the game is on. it s me against him. i know it. he also knew, he was quite sure of it, that all evening, mark twitchell had been handing him a whole load of nonsense and expecting him to believe it but also, all evening, as detective clark listened carefully and contemplated his up arrows and down arrows i agreed with everything he said. this is not the time of the interview to start pushing. it was not the time to start confronting him. that would come later on. because, one of those down arrows led to a particular conclusion. mark twitchell thought clark was a dumb cop. twitchell was trying to play him. while you are reading him during that interview, he had been reading you. no doubt. he probably had made some judgments about your ability as an interviewer. what did he think of you, do you think? i think he didn t think i was that smart. i think he thought he was smarter than me and i believe that he felt that anything he told us, he could concoct to make us believe him. and of course, there is only one proper response to that. i just let him go then taken back through it. question-and-answer, standard procedure, just nail down the details now. now i m starting to see he s not remembering specific details. let s go back to your lunch. you are at lunch. would you go for lunch? don t remember. don t know where you want for lunch? no. so now, it was early morning. they had been at it for hours. they had taken a break and let mark twitchell sit by himself and perhaps stew a bit and now had time for clark to play a different role. we done the good cop routine. now my forte, the bad cop is coming in. this is what i like. this is what i relish. there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that you are involved in the disappearance of john altinger. no doubt in my mind at all. i? now i m going to start hammering him with what i know. the problem is, i know very little. but, now that was perfectly clear to mark twitchell that he was a suspect in the disappearance and maybe a murder, his easy camaraderie seemed to shrivel. his eyes glazed with something that looked like fear . was he truly innocent? or, was something else going on, something more in keeping with his role as a storyteller? why can t you give me the version of events that night? has i m scared. as the night dragged on, twitchell doubled something about reality seeming more like some sort of fantasy. but, in the face of all of detectives clark s accusations, mark twitchell never wavered. for nearly four hours, he answered clark s questions always polite, apparently helpful, did not as much as ask for a lawyer. a by the end of the night? i got nothing. my gut instinct at that time is that the sky is involved up to his neck in this but what exactly he s done, i don t know yet, but i m going to find out. finally, at daybreak, mark twitchell let clark know he d had enough. in my being charged? not yet. am i free to go? yes. and i will. okay. and then, as bill clark escorted mark twitchell out of the building and into the early morning dark, he ups the ante a little, told twitchell he was seizing his car . then he goes he almost stopped and pulled back and he goes well, i need to get something out of it and i says you re getting nothing. i m taking that car. and, it was then, as clark approached twitchell s car to take it to the impound yard, that he noticed mark s unusual license plate personalized dark jedi. coming up. i have never in my life felt fear like that. police find witnesses who saw something that seemed like a horror movie. it s like every nightmare you had as a child after watching a scary movie, every nightmare you ve ever had. all of a sudden it s right here. when dateline continues. here. when dateline continues. is no exception. it s time you had a proven choice to help restore what s yours. opzelura is the first and only fda-approved prescription treatment for nonsegmental vitiligo. proven to help repigment skin over time. restoring what s yours. it s possible with a steroid-free cream that you can apply yourself. opzelura can lower your ability to fight infections including tb or hepatitis b or c. serious lung infections, skin cancer, blood clots, and low blood cell counts occurred with opzelura. in people taking jak inhibitors, serious infections, increased risk of death, lymphoma, other cancers, and major cardiovascular events have occurred. the most common side effects were acne and itching where applied. repigmentation is possible. ask your dermatologist today about starting or refilling opzelura. pursue it. you re the one that i want nexgard® combo is the only monthly topical that protects against fleas, ticks, tapeworms, and more. use with caution in cats with a history of seizures or neurologic disorders. nexgard combo,. you re the one that i want .the monthly one-and-done you want. everybody wants super straight, super white teeth. they want that hollywood white smile. new sensodyne clinical white provides 2 shades whiter teeth and 24/7 sensitivity protection. i think it s a great product. it s going to help a lot of patients. diabetes can serve up a lot of questions. like what is your glucose and can you have more carbs? before you decide with the freestyle libre 3 system know your glucose and where it s heading no fingersticks needed. now the world s smallest and thinnest sensor sends your glucose levels directly to your smartphone. manage your diabetes with more confidence and lower your a1c. the #1 cgm prescribed in the u.s. try it for free at freestylelibre.us stay ahead of your moderate-to-severe eczema. and show off clearer skin and less itch with dupixent, the #1 prescribed biologic by dermatologists and allergists, that helps heal your skin from within. serious allergic reactions can occur that can be severe. tell your doctor about new or worsening eye problems such as eye pain or vision changes including blurred vision, joint aches and pain, or a parasitic infection. don t change or stop asthma medicines without talking to your doctor. ask your eczema specialist about dupixent. keith morrison: edmonton homicide detective bill clark, ask your eczema specialist along with other members of the edmonton police service, felt a little like alice in the rabbit hole. their missing man, johnny altinger, had vanished without a trace. and there were whispers his disappearance could be part of some publicity stunt. their only suspect was an aspiring movie producer, a storyteller, who stood up to a bill clark grilling with his manners intact, even though, by this time, clark couldn t edmonton homicide detective bill clark along with other members of the edmonton police service felt a little like alice in the rabbit hole. they re missing man, john altinger, had vanished without a trace and there were whispers his disappearance could be part of some publicity stunt. their only suspect was an aspiring movie producer storyteller who stood up to a bill clark grilling with his man is intact even though by this time, clark could not shake the gut feeling that this movie director was one very bad day. i was thinking he had filmed whatever he did done to johnny. i was thinking he had killed him and filmed the murder. so, as police looked through twitchell s car and home, they had the idea they might find videotape of her murder. instead, what they discovered was an affair. twitchell had a girlfriend and when his wife found out about that, she kicked him out. but, twitchell seemed, at least to the outside world, unperturbed and instead of falling apart, he simply retreated to his childhood home and moved in with his parents and so, clark paid twitchell s dad and mom a visit. they just struck me as a parent for her son does nothing wrong where s the father wanted to hear what i had to say, and he listened but he got over it. they set up a surveillance team, 24 hour watch to keep an eye on the house and twitchell, but his behavior was anything but suspicious. he went on about his business, took meetings with investors about his movie project, even picked up a $35,000 check from his financial backer. the mark twitchell i was dealing with was articulate, in control, running his project the way you would expect any entrepreneur to be running his project. in detective clark s world of up arrows and down arrows there was one more huge up arrow in twitchell s favor. motive, or that is to say the lack of one. there was no earthly reason for twitchell to kill altinger. there was no love triangle, no rivalry, there was no robbery and to put it more simply, twitchell was not a criminal. did not have a record, had never even been arrested. why would a young, married father killed a perfect stranger? so, besides twitchell, police also focus their attention on this quiet suburban neighborhood around twitchell s rented garage studio where john altinger may have gone to see a woman he met online. they went door-to-door , had anyone seen john altinger or his car or anything suspicious? they found this couple who told a story that seemed almost lifted from a horror movie. i have never in my life felt fear like that. these two, their names are marissa and trevor, were out for an evening stroll when they stepped through the looking glass. it happened when a young man came stumbling out of this alley and collapsed in front of them. he was on the ground and it was just an instant bad feeling. he looked up and said i m being robbed. can you help me? then, as if on cue, another man. in pursuit. as i looked up the attacker almost ran into me. the attacker was wearing a dark, hooded sweatshirt and a hockey mask. it s like every nightmare you have as a child after watching a scary movie. every nightmare you ve ever had. all of a sudden, it s right here. this was no bewitching hour. it was 7:30, and early autumn sun had just begun to take on the glow of a long, northern evening. neighborhood kids were still struggling home from soccer practice. is it believable to you? yes and no, because the way that he fell, to me, looked staged. to get us to stop so they could grab us. yeah, we thought it was a set up for us. so, you did not know whether he was going to assault you or whether he was running from that guy for real. exactly. then, so trevor and marissa, the masked man retreated into the alley to this garage. that is where he stood. he stood there like he was protecting something. i was like, i m getting out of here right now. trevor and marissa left the man on the ground pleading for help like some seasoned method actor and left. when i got home, they called the police, so squad cars prowled the streets as the autumn wind light angled toward the horizon but in that quiet, nothing seemed out of place. nothing amiss. that was that until weeks later when police came back here looking for john altinger . was the guy in the alley actually johnny, not an actor, was he a real victim? one of the detectives went downtown to check on the report taken from trevor and marissa, and it didn t fit. that call was taken a week before johnny disappeared. besides, no victim ever came forward. no one claimed to have been attacked by a masked man. the whole thing sounded almost like , well, like a scene from the movie. coming up, or just maybe, a tv show about a serial killer. what attracted you to director? what i loved about the show in the books is how he was able to explore that darkside, rationalize that it s okay to kill somebody because this person deserves it in a way. and dateline continues. y. and dateline continues. but this is my story. ( ) and with once-daily trelegy, it can still be beautiful. because with 3 medicines in 1 inhaler, trelegy keeps my airways open for a full 24 hours and prevents future flare-ups. trelegy also improves lung function, so i can breathe more freely all day and night. trelegy won t replace a rescue inhaler for sudden breathing problems. tell your doctor if you have a heart condition or high blood pressure before taking it. do not take trelegy more than prescribed. trelegy may increase your risk of thrush, pneumonia, and osteoporosis. call your doctor if worsened breathing, chest pain, mouth or tongue swelling, problems urinating, vision changes, or eye pain occur. what a wonderful world [laughing] ask your doctor about once-daily trelegy for copd because breathing should be beautiful, all day and night. choose advil liqui-gels for faster, stronger and longer-lasting relief than tylenol rapid release gels because advil targets pain at the source of inflammation. so for faster pain relief, advil the pain away. new mr. clean ultra foamy magic eraser? with the scrubbing power of magic eraser and the cleaning power of dawn. watch it make soap scum here. disappear. and sprays can leave grime like that ultra foamy melts it on contact. magic. new ultra foamy magic eraser. (dad) we never thought that with verizon, saving on the the best in entertainment was gonna be so easy before. we had to pretend we had seen all these shows. now that we have verizon, we can stop pretending. (vo) disney+, hulu, espn+, netflix and max. all for just $20/mo. only on verizon. her uncle s unhappy. (mom) my turn. i m sensing an underlying issue. it s t-mobile. it started when we tried to get him under a new plan. but they they unexpectedly unraveled their “price lock” guarantee. which has made him, a bit. unruly. you called yourself the “un-carrier”. you sing about “price lock” on those commercials. “the price lock, the price lock.” so, if you could change the price, change the name! it s not a lock, i know a lock. so how can we undo the damage? we could all unsubscribe and switch to xfinity. their connection is unreal. and we could all un-experience this whole session. okay, that s uncalled for. to light under the northern sun, especially with the aid of a search warrant. as bill clark and his colleagues closed in on movie maker mark strange things come to light under the northern son, especially with the head of a search warrant. as bill clark and his colleagues closed in on moviemaker mark twitchell, they seized his office computer, found in his house, and on the computer s hard drive, they found this video that looked almost like a movie. a horror movie. no, it was not a snuff film, was not john altinger s murder caught on tape. it was raw footage of one of twitchell s tease films, the one he had told the detective about the first time he d talked to him. it s a suspense thriller, actually. it s a short film. house of cards is what twitchell was calling it. get enough people talking about this and he might persuade some investor to ante up the money for a feature-length film. in house of cards, killer poses online as a flirtatious woman to entrap her victim. in this scene, it is a philandering husband who tells his wife he s heading off to the gym. but, once he arrives at the rendezvous site, the victim is dropped with a stun baton. murdered, then cut up into little bits. imagine a cross between friday the 13th and dexter. the victim in this teaser version was played by edmonton comedian, chris hayward. so, police decided to have a little chat with mr. hayward, but when they showed up at his door, hayward, no slouch when it came to the entertainment business, thought it was a prank of some sort. i worked on reality television. it was one of the first things i got into television on. they throw you curveballs and they have writers and i didn t know. i thought somebody s making this up. this can t be true. this is not a real story. police also tracked down toronto actor robert barnsley who played the starring role of the deranged mass murderer. i was thinking great sure and fill out the short film. i like the idea of this. of course i want to try to be the killer. he seemed like a very normal guy trying to do a film. very nice, very pleasant. playing a serial killer was almost too much fun, said barnsley. it got kind of scary for i enjoyed it too much. you got to be a sadist big- time. absolutely. very fun for me to play. i rather enjoyed doing it. i was thinking my to myself, that i just think i could do this and make it believable? which, said barnsley, was exactly what director twitchell seemed to want. there s a point where i had to stab the dummy through the chest with a samurai sword and he was sitting behind the chair he d be leaning in and say okay listen, when you re turning the blade, grit your teeth and really show that you re enjoying it. wait a minute, was this all about enjoying some fantasy game, pretending to be evil? detectives surfed around twitchell s computer account and discovered a facebook relationship that was all about pretending. at about the time he started filming house of cards, twitchell befriended an animal trainer and aspiring filmmaker, a woman named renee wary. and edmonton detective flew all the way to cleveland to question her, where she, right up front about it, told him about clicking on an intriguing facebook profile, dexter morgan. there was a picture of michael c hall, the actor who portrays dexter morgan on showtime. did you think you are friending the actor himself? sure, you know. what attracted you to dexter? what i love about the show in the books is how he was able to explore that darkside and rationalize that it s okay to kill somebody because this person deserved it, in a way. we flirted back and forth and i kept asking him who are you really, tell me who you are because i want to see the man behind the mask. finally, rene s facebook friend relented. no, he was not actor michael c hall, he admitted. his name was mark twitchell. once he told me who he was, i checked them out, you know. i did a lot of research online and found out that he was legitimate and he was up-and- coming. for rene, the would-be filmmaker, this seemed like her big break. he expressed interest in me and my writing styles and my ideas. what did he like about your writing style? you never said specifically. he just said i think we have, you know, like chemistry together and how we would be able to work very well together , and that we thought a lot alike. this had to be pretty exciting. yes. soon, she was intoxicated by this online collaboration and then wonder of wonders, he offered her work on his next project, the feature-length version of his short film, a film, he told her, about a serial killer. we had talked about our hypotheticals about how to kill somebody and get away with it. he told me well, you do it like dexter because dexter shows you how to do it all the time. dark? yes, but all in fun, of course, like twitchell s playful advice on eliminating, and dexter -like fashion, one of rene s rival in romance. with both her hands wrapped in duct tape, free one arm and slit the wrist. a hunters game processing kit comes with everything you need to cut the body into nice, manageable pieces. disturbing? yes but remember, all pretense. but then, a couple of weeks later, and this is what she told the police, something happened, strange and unsettling. there was a weekend-long pause in their play talk about dexter the darkside. not a single email from her friend, mark twitchell. then, when they came in with it, an apology that also had something else keeping me busy, he wrote. i m really concerned about telling anyone because of the implications. suffice it to say i crossed the line on friday. and, i liked it. crossed the line? what did that mean? coming up. was this all part of an elaborate hoax? a staged fantasy were something truly terrifying, when dateline continues. truly terrifying, when dateline continues. 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(vo) new and existing customers get iphone 15 on us when they trade in any iphone. verizon what causes a curve down there? who can treat this? stop typing, and start talking. it could be a medical condition called peyronie s disease, or pd. you re not alone, there is hope. find a specialized urologist who can diagnose and treat pd. visit makeapdplan.com today. nexium 24hr prevents heartburn acid for twice as long as pepcid. get all-day and all-night heartburn acid prevention with just one pill a day. choose acid prevention. choose nexium. keith morrison: (voiceover) it was choose acid prevention. halloween in edmonton, canada. halloween, a highlight in most any child s fantasy calendar, the night to be the terrible creature she it was halloween and edmonton, canada. i highlight almost any child s fennessey calendar, the night the terrible creature could never really be. mark twitchell loved halloween. spent weeks, months actually, stitching together getups, outlandish costumes. in 2008, weeks after his wife kicked him out and cops began tailing him everywhere, he decided to be ironman. built the costume in his parents garage. but, on the very witchy afternoon, hours from his planned grand entrance to a gala halloween party, as he was walking to a local coffee house to meet with potential movie investors, he was thrown to the ground by men wearing their own unique costumes. members of the s.w.a.t. team. mark twitchell was handcuffed and charged with the murder of johnny altinger. that made big headlines. police even held a press conference to announce the arrest. the reporters who had gathered were left with one juicy tidbit. we have a lot of information that he idolizes dexter. we went to his facebook page. steve was a crime reporter for the edmonton journal. he had a post that said mark twitchell is too much in common with dexter morgan and the idea that there s a man out there who is attacking strangers, innocent victims, it s almost myth. something built up by hollywood. it didn t seem like it could be real. in edmonton, the question began to circulate. had the cops been played by a clever promoter? mark twitchell is known as a prankster. people thought it was a hoax. you almost wonder whether or not he was doing it as a publicity stunt. exactly. so maybe, bill clark and the rest of the police force would wind up with red faces and not just from the cold. except, there was one little bit of news police did not announce. when they searched twitchell s car, they found a laptop and on the hard drive at that laptop, very smart detective found a deleted temporary file. a document about 40 pages long. could be described as a diary, maybe a far-fetched novel right treatment for a dexter episode. it was called sk confessions. it was a first person account written from the perspective and aspiring serial killer. i remember reading this the first day when they brought it down and i said holy mackerel, this tells us everything. except he s a professional storyteller who tells, you know, movies. they are not real. weren t you afraid you might be about to be drawn into a rabbit hole? something that might be true or not be true, it might be f&s e- absolutely. we had huge discussions about this. it read more like a work of fiction. like a story that could not possibly be true. it seems like a hoax right from the opening paragraph. this is the story of my progression into becoming a serial killer. i don t remember the exact place and time it was i decided to be a serial killer, but i remember the sensation that hit me. it was a rush of pure euphoria. there was something about exploring my dark side the greatly appealed to me. the author seemed inspired by the tv show dexter. i m a huge fan of the showtime series dexter, as you may have guessed, if you re at all familiar with the show. and a particular scene played an important role. i watched an episode of dexter where the flashback showed his father showing dexter a scan of the human brain. he identify the difference between a serial killer sprain in a normal person s brain. i was convinced that what i was was my own decision, my own path, but now i truly wondered if i had little choice at all. of genetics play a bigger role than i thought. i knew i was a psychopath further than he sociopaths because i had the perfect upbringing and no history of abuse, violence, or trauma. in sk professions, it s graphic. how the killer dispatches victims with a mental mental pipe. i thrusted in his gut. his reaction was pure hollywood. the lurch forward with the grant was dead on tv movie of the week. the little i knew at the time and the things i found, thought it was true. cops can have hunches and think what they want, but this hunches really hold up in court. sk confessions could be a make- believe story, might not be written by twitchell. it could ve been downloaded from the internet . investigators started going through sk confessions line by line, to see if they could sort out fact from fiction. and, indeed, police found details that lined up with reality. the writer in his first person account tells the reader how he used a processing kit to dismember the victim s body and police found a processing kit in twitchell s garage. the killers said he tried to burn the victim s body in an oil drum and his parents backyard. at twitchell s parents backyard, they found a burned ring on the back lawn. there was a detail about the killer getting a speeding ticket and so did twitchell about the time that johnny altinger disappeared. he joked about it about how this dumb cop didn t realize he had just killed a guy. he was now going out to celebrate and have sex with his girlfriend. the cop remembered up. it came back and we know the conversation. it was basically word for word that story told us. exactly what the sheriff told us. there was a key part of the story that could not be verified. a passage that goes on for pages about an earlier attack, but that victim got away. that part of the story read like that directly from the house of cards grip where the victim is tasered by man wearing a hockey mask and hood. it s a big part to prove it s true or not. it was a huge part. if someone had been attacked that way, you would ve heard of it. exactly. we got nothing. no call. nothing that even matches the similarity. is seem to be one part of the story that didn t make sense. they went public and released a photo of the hockey mask. that what week somebody s memory that that was me. it was a longshot, really. maybe that person did not exist. they put it out there. they waited. not for long. because, that very evening, a lonely casino security officer named gilles tetreault was puttering on his computer and saw the newspaper article online. the police appeal. they felt the blood drain from his face. that person was him. i am like, oh my god. it s the same hockey mask as i saw, that the guy was wearing. i started reading the story. oh, my god, someone got killed. that terrifying evening came crashing back into his head. it was he, gilles tetreault, who so frightened that couple out for a stroll. he picked up the phone and before long found himself in a little room with detective bill clark. in my career, it was probably the most spellbinding interview i ve ever had with a witness. now, you are about to hear that story firsthand. coming up. all of a sudden i see this man wearing this black and gold hockey mask. this guy was bigger than me. the horror story really happened. life flash before my eyes. oh, my god. my family will never see me again. again. govy®. with wegovy®, i lost 35 pounds. and some lost over 46 pounds. and i m keeping the weight off. wegovy® helps you lose weight and keep it off. i m reducing my risk. wegovy® is the only fda-approved weight-management medicine that s proven to reduce risk of major cardiovascular events in adults with known heart disease and with either obesity or overweight. wegovy® shouldn 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( ) and with once-daily trelegy, it can still be beautiful. because with 3 medicines in 1 inhaler, trelegy keeps my airways open for a full 24 hours and prevents future flare-ups. trelegy also improves lung function, so i can breathe more freely all day and night. trelegy won t replace a rescue inhaler for sudden breathing problems. tell your doctor if you have a heart condition or high blood pressure before taking it. do not take trelegy more than prescribed. trelegy may increase your risk of thrush, pneumonia, and osteoporosis. call your doctor if worsened breathing, chest pain, mouth or tongue swelling, problems urinating, vision changes, or eye pain occur. what a wonderful world [laughing] ask your doctor about once-daily trelegy for copd because breathing should be beautiful, all day and night. ceover) when gilles tetreault joined because breathing should be beautiful, the strange developing horror movie plot up in edmonton, gilles tetreault joined the developing horror movie plot in edmonton, canada. a man with a broken heart. lonely in a new city without the wife who had left him for another life. she just wanted to move on? she fell out of love with me, i guess. that s not easy. when he came across that lovely, intelligent woman on an online dating site and she seemed to like him? well, who could resist. she looked beautiful in her profile. i believe i made the first contact. what did she say about herself? she said she was new in town and looking to meet people. i found it a coincidence. so was i kind of thing. with a view alone and looking to meet someone. i thought this is perfect. sheena was her name. she said how about dinner and a movie. she started making excuses that i couldn t pick her up at her front door. so has stayed asked him to park in an alley and comes right back entrance, through a detached garage. she would leave the garage door open and i would go through the garage to the other side, get into the yard and knock on the back door to pick her up. i didn t have to crawl under it. i just had to squat. hopeful, unsuspecting, he walked through the garage door, the store, that leads to the back patio. i touched the not and all of a sudden somebody attacked me from behind. i turned back to look to see what s going on. that is when, all of a sudden, i see this man wearing this black and gold hockey mask. this guy was much bigger than me. prodding me with a stun gun. at first gilles couldn t tell what it was this stinging at the back of his neck. but listen to this from sk confessions? pressing the baton across the back of his neck, pulled the trigger. shocked and jump but did little more than merely alert him to what was going on. i tried to make a run for it. that s when he pulled out a gun. what is that like when somebody pulls a gun on you? terrified. i didn t know what to do. oh, my god, i think i m going to die and i cannot get away. there is no way i can escape a bullet. i felt a sick feeling. i pointed it at him and all of a sudden he took me seriously. his eyes wide. then he yells, get down on the ground. put your face down and close your eyes and put your hands in the back. he took out duct tape. he ripped off a piece. that s when he covered my eyes with them. just about then, gilles tetreault decided hits come to the moment of his death. i started tearing up. it was like life flashed before my eyes. it was quite emotional. oh, my god. my family is never going to see me again. i never told anyone where i was going that day. all of a sudden, by my legs, i hear his belt jiggling. what gilles heard was the sound of handcuffs as they neared his wrists. he said he felt the attacker was undoing his belt. i thought, he is going to rape may. i better fight for my life. i would rather die my way than his way. i knew he s going to pull the gun out again. you know what? if it kills me, it kills me. gilles makes his move. i darted for the gun. grabbed the end and pushed it away from my body. but this fight is far from over. he comes after me and grabs my legs. he starts dragging me back. me e of your health. centrum gives every body a healthy foundation. supporting your - oops - energy, immunity and metabolism. and yours too! you did it! plus try centrum silver, now clinically proven to support memory in older adults. hi, i m janice and i lost 172 pounds on golo. now clinically proven a friend told me that i was the only one holding me back from being as beautiful on the outside as i am on the inside. once i saw golo was working i felt this rush. golo really works. norman, bad news. i never graduated from med school. what? -but the good news is. xfinity mobile just got even better! now, you can automatically connect to wifi speeds up to a gig on the go. plus, buy one unlimited line and get one free for a year. i gotta get this deal. i know. faster wifi and savings? .i don t want to miss that. that s amazing doc. mobile savings are calling. visit xfinitymobile.com to learn more. doc? he d been lured into a garage then assaulted by a masked man gilles tetreault was in a battle for his life. had been lured into a garage and assaulted by masked man with the gun. now he is determined to turn the tables. get up and rip off the duct tape and i yell at them. i said, i can t do this. i m not going down like this. he started yelling at me. it back down on the ground. back down on the ground. i darted for the gun. grabbed the end and pushed it away from my body. he got back to his feet, having removed the duct tape. when i pointed the gun at him again, he grabbed a. it was the best feeling i felt in my life because i felt plastic when i grabbed it. immediately. who suddenly realized? it was a fake gun. i think i might ve seen a gleam that indicated he felt the gun construction a realized it was not real. i grabbed him by the arms and we re struggling all over the garage. according to sk confessions, by fighting back, had taken the story off script. overestimating the stun baton is a mistake i would not repeat. i should ve just pounded him on the back of the head while he was down until he lay unconscious on the floor. i tried to kick him. he saw me going to do that, so he actually went and swiped my leg and i almost fell down. i almost lost my shoe. i am thinking, i can t get down. if i get down on the ground, you are cooked. exactly. s adrenaline had been pumping and he was unaware how the shock from the stun baton had sapped his strength. my muscles could not move. i was so weak. he goes forward and tries to headbutt meet me. that s when he says, because you did not cooperate, this is the way it has to be. he starts punching me in the head. he stumbled back with every blow, closer and closer to the open garage door. i am letting him punch me. he punches me again. he grabs my jacket so i slipped out of my jacket and ruled under the garage door. i made it out of the garage. i start to try to run. all of a sudden, it s like my legs were paralyzed. i could not move. i fell on my face. a nightmare where you can get away from that monster. i start crawling away on this unpaved driveway. sure enough, he comes underneath the garage after me. grabs my legs and he starts dragging me back. i m thinking, oh, my god, i don t know how i will get away again. i have nothing left. there s nothing else i can do. underneath the door. au he drags me back and throw me back into the garage underneath the door. i m thinking, he does not have a hold of me anymore. this is my chance. i can maybe get away again and i roll underneath the garage door. i got back up, and in my head, i was like, there is no way i am not running this time. terrified. exhausted, gilles tetreault ran 30 or 40 feet to this pedestrian path and that s when he collapsed in front of trevor and marissa. i look up and i see a couple walking their dog. i couldn t really talk. all i could say is there s a man after me. he is trying to mug me, please, help me. they looked stunned. they didn t know what was going on. to me, felt like it was taking the masked man forever to come after me. but he came running after me. he comes close to me and i tell him them, that s the man. as i looked up, the attacker almost ran into me. once he saw the couple, he said, come on, frank. the guy was pretending they were friends. he was pretending he was going to live the mask like we were playing. then he does. he turns around and starts walking back to the garage. i stared back at them through my mask and then headed back for the cover of my layer. it was only once he arrived safe at home that gilles tried to put it together. how? what in the world just happened? who was the man behind the mask? and why had he been attacked? i decided i need to go back onto that online dating website. i want to get as much information as i can so i can give it to police. i go back on and all of a sudden, everything was gone. her profile was gone. although sent and received messages i got from the person were all gone. what is it like to be sitting alone in front of your computer with that realization in your head? it felt almost ashamed. i can t believe i got duped by this woman. i just want to put this behind me. i want to move on. and did not call the police. no, did not. i had no idea. for weeks, i had nightmares. i kept githinking, maybe this g is following me. maybe he s going to attack me again. i was terrified. i was facing him there with a gun. a month after his journey into the twilight zone, gilles tetreault was giving bill clark a videotape blow-by-blow of the assault. there s no doubt he is being truthful. the cops had real evidence that sk confessions was all true. except, it was not quite complete. it was a story without an end. the part we never had, we never had johnny. johnny altinger. the victim who it seemed did not escape from this suburban garage, still no sign of him. unless, just about then the detectives uncovered some of the, updated version of sk confessions. there was one more chapter. in which the killer leaves a clue. impossible to resist. the police take mark twitchell on a journey to the place where something evil had happened. here we are back at the killing garage. killing garage. nexium 24hr prevents heartburn acid for twice as long as pepcid. get all-day and all-night heartburn acid prevention with just one pill a day. choose acid prevention. choose nexium. nexgard® plus helps you protect your dog from fleas, ticks, heartworm disease, and more. all in one delicious, monthly, soft chew. use with caution in dogs with a history of seizures or neurologic disorders. nexgard® plus: the one you want for one-and-done protection. i still love to surf, snowboard, or neurologic disorders. and, of course, skate. so, i take qunol magnesium to support my muscle and bone health. qunol s extra strength, high absorption magnesium helps me get the full benefits of magnesium. qunol, the brand i trust. i m richard lui. is real saying it rescued four hostages during a raid in gaza who had been kidnapped by hamas during the music festival october 7. officials say more than 200 palestinians were killed by airstrikes nearby. marks one of the bloodiest single days and eight months of war so far. a 3-year-old horse took the victory in the 156 running of the belmont stakes. there was no triple crown champion is over two different winners in the kentucky derby and preakness stakes. loved the tv show dexter, was so taken with the whole idea the would be movie direction or dashed director loved the tv show dexter. so taken with the whole idea that he posted this online ad, attempt to sell the script for his house of cards short film as if it were an original dexter episode. in fact, the story of his computer, the one called sk confessions is a lot like an episode of the tv show. now, here in his rented garage, police found what looked like a kill room. there was plastic sheeting. autopsy table. all matching the careful descriptions in sk confessions. what the killer could not learn from dexter s how to dispose of the body. the tv dexter lives in miami, dumps his victims in the atlantic. but, edmonton in the middle of thousands of square miles of farmland and oilfields has hundreds of miles from the ocean and that fact seem to have stymied the sk controller who up had no idea how to get rid of the remains. perhaps it never occurred to him to put the body in the trunk of a car and drive it past city limits and bury it behind some old abandoned barn. so, according to sk confessions, tried burning them. that did not work. he thought about throwing them in the saskatchewan river there one town but was afraid someone would see him. he finally decided to toss them down one of the thousands of storm drains. the diary had got to a point where he talked about dumping the body in a sewer and then it ended. by this time, clark believed that the diary was true. all of it. without a body in a case as bizarre as this one, how could any jury be sure any important parts of this sk confessions wants some fantasy from the dark side? clark confronted twitchell with the evidence hoping he would confess. this reminds me of dexter. kill room. clean sweep. you were referring to your garages a kill room. your garage was a kill room. the table is the killed table. it s where you carved him up. i will show you that later but all the blood seeps underneath. the dude dna matching. when i say the show dexter, and you ve seen the show. it s all modeled after dexter. you know that. you kind of look like the guy. i look at that picture, i saw the one on your website, you even look the same. he kills people who needs killing. these guys who get off in court. the guys get off on technicality. he kills people who needs killing. the difference here is you killed a guy who really was no harm to society. there was no response at all. the next day clark and another detective took twitchell and drove him around edmonton hoping he would give up information. what was his demeanor like? defiant. assiduous show is where the body is. will show us where johnny is and drove right here. parked in front of his parents house. after that? mark twitchell was taken to a place that was the center of his life. here we are the killing garage. the dexter garage. look familiar? we parked on top of the sewer where you d dumped the body? jog your memory. clark even took twitchell to the back of the garage, the suspect a crime scene, hoping it would trigger some level of remorse. bring back any memories? want to tell us where the body is? get this over with? okay. back in the car, another detective heard of camera starts working on twitchell. you humiliate your victim. knocked him over the head. carve him up. chop him up. this pales in comparison. twitchell said nothing, at least not in person. he had said plenty in sk confessions, if he was the author. the document was incomplete, ending in a jumble of unrecoverable computer code. com hon, we are to the point where he dumped the body and we don t know the location. a detective did a slow, methodical search through the desktop computer found in twitchell s home, and it paid up. on the computer, once deleted but now found was yet another version of sk confessions with a view tantalizing paragraphs describing the location of the victim s remains. he talks about a specific sewer. how it s off an alley in a grassy area, and an old neighborhood. he talks about telephone poles in the alley. only certain neighborhoods here have telephone poles. the older ones. that s about the time bill clark became a man obsessed. we were pulling manhole covers up. i d be with a flashlight and looking down. we would call the city crews in. nothing. enough to make a person doubt his sanity. coming up. police were about to get some help. a man that open the case. they stopped right here. a year and a half later, where did you find the body? 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after 1.5 years, call from the city jail, and meet wanted to talk to detectives. his name, mark twitchell. he handed over a print out of this google map. at the bottom of the page there was a handwritten note. location of johnny altinger s remains. it was one block south of his parents house and that alley. this is the alley behind the home. it matched perfectly with the description from sk confessions, and in fact, this area had been searched by police a year and a half earlier. they pulled all these sewers all the covers? all the covers. they searched each one and they found nothing. this block, this area, and they sent cameras down the lines where they go down the lines and sneak them down and found nothing. where do they stop? about where you and i are standing. a year and a half later, where did you find the body? right down there. five telephone poles down half a block from where we stopped the search. this was johnny altinger s tomb. there is a piece of trash he probably thought it would get washed away. deteriorate to a point where it would be unidentifiable or no one would look. no one would ever look. why weeks before his murder trial was set to begin did mark twitchell give up johnny altinger s body? there must ve been a reason. because of all the publicity the case generated, the judge slapped a gag order on the press, the police, everybody. which is one the first day of the trial, the disclosure that altinger s body had been uncovered catches everyone by surprise. the reporter is written a book about the case. it doesn t get more explosive than that. it was new information no one had heard before. the trial only got more bizarre is the prosecution unveiled for the first time sk confessions. sitting in the courtroom became a journey deep into the wilderness of a mind of darkness. horde details were written down. no detail was not told within this document. it sounds just like it is fiction, like a script, but when you step back you realize it s a real person. it is a real man who has been murdered. was johnny altinger murder? twitchell admitted he dumped the remains down the storm drain, he never said he murdered him. never admitted he was the author of sk confessions. detectives knew they would need more than this document to get a conviction. the quietly build a case on csi basics. take the garage. this is what it looked like during the normal light of day. and this is a photo taken from the same angle minutes later once the floor was sprayed with luminal, the chemical that makes blood glow. huge spots in the garage would indicate pooling of blood. we found a piece of a human tooth in the garage. we found blood spatter along the walls and the garage door. hundreds of spots where repeating had taken place. also? csi investigators found this gang processing kit. hunters would take it to cut up a moose or whatever they have killed. this is what he used and every single tool in the kit had our victim s dna on it. in his car, police found other hard evidence. we find a knife and there. a knife with blood. visible blood? visible blood and it matches johnny altinger. he left it in the car? and the car is a gold mine . it absolutely blows the case wide open. there are yellow sticky notes on the console. one has a map drawn from the garage to johnny altinger s apartment. he kept everything. wrote everything down. after the presentation of the hard evidence, his coworkers were called to testify. one of the first was the actor who played the victim in house of cards. on his way to court that morning, he worried. what would happen if twitchell is acquitted? i feel he would probably kill me. chris was not alone. rene was unsettled too the day she testified but for another reason altogether. i didn t want to feel judge. because? i have dark thoughts and i shared them with a serial killer. johnny altinger s friend testified. there was nervousness, for sure. and a lot of sadness that day for me. all i can do is speak for john and the person he was. a nice man. definitely. if things had not turned out the way it did, he would ve found what he was looking for in life. it was the first time she had gotten a clear look at mark twitchell . he seemed like a normal, average person off the street. that is what disturbed me. twitchell remained stonefaced even when his wife took the stand. she is crying through all of this. mark twitchell s reaction was nearly blank. when this video was shown a chord during bill clark s testimony, twitchell became unraveled. he starts to cry and tears are streaming down his face. he is getting hysterical. the judge recognized and they took a break. when it comes back after the break, mark twitchell is no better. still very upset and he is crying. he actually faces detective clark and he starts talking to him. he said i am sorry for lying to you. this is extraordinary. you never have the accused talking to one of the primary investigators in the middle of their murder trial. this was far from the strangest moment of the trial. that came in the case for the defense when the attorney called it one witness. mark twitchell. the room was packed. i think everyone was on the edge of their seat wondering what does this guy going to say? twitchell finally had an audience. when he had been waiting 2.5 years to tell. what a story it was. he said you could blend fiction and reality so closely together that everyone would be fooled. fooled. [coughing] copd isn t pretty. i m out of breath, and often out of the picture. but this is my story. ( ) and with once-daily trelegy, it can still be beautiful. because with 3 medicines in 1 inhaler, trelegy keeps my airways open for a full 24 hours and prevents future flare-ups. trelegy also improves lung function, so i can breathe more freely all day and night. trelegy won t replace a rescue inhaler for sudden breathing problems. tell your doctor if you have a heart condition or high blood pressure before taking it. do not take trelegy more than prescribed. trelegy may increase your risk of thrush, pneumonia, and osteoporosis. call your doctor if worsened breathing, chest pain, mouth or tongue swelling, problems urinating, vision changes, or eye pain occur. what a wonderful world [laughing] ask your doctor about once-daily trelegy for copd because breathing should be beautiful, all day and night. choose advil liqui-gels for faster, stronger and longer-lasting relief than tylenol rapid release gels because advil targets pain at the source of inflammation. so for faster pain relief, advil the pain away. hi, i m kevin and i ve lost 152 pounds on golo. because advil targets pain at the source of inflammation. i decided to give golo a try. taking the release supplement i noticed a change within the first week and each month the weight just kept coming off. with golo you can keep the weight off. keith morrison: (voiceover) in mark twitchell s trial, the defense had but one witness, twitchell himself. and right from the start, he admitted in mark twitchell, they had one witness. right from the start, he admitted killing johnny altinger . then, he told the jury a story. he said what he has done is cooked up this idea that you could blend fiction and reality so closely together that the people, everyone would be fooled into thinking what is fiction is actually reality. house of cards and sk confessions said twitchell worded very the building blocks to a entertain the concept of book and film. there was more. more twisted reality. to generate publicity, he said he first needed to create an online urban legend by doing a series of harmless staged attacks identical s to those depicted in this movie and novel. so when his movie comes out and when the novel comes out, people would googled this and find out there s this urban legend that maybe the movie is real. maybe fiction is reality. he called a? multi-angle psychosis/psychosis label entertainment. sitting on the beach and there s a palm tree and a beach in front of you but when you pull back, it s not a beach but a picture of a beach. the attack on geo tetra was just a stunt. he allowed his parade to escape. and johnny altinger? that was week too just like the first one. but johnny didn t get the joke and furious there was no woman to greet him, tap twitchell with a pipe. he s got this knife on his belt and he tells the jury in his testimony that he puts his hand on the handle of the knife and just as johnny is about to come at him, his lifting the pipe over his head and mark twitchell sticks his hands out in front of him and the next thing he sees is the knife in johnny s stomach and blood is on his hands and he collapses on the floor and dies. the only inaccuracy is the initial attacker was johnny altinger and he , mark twitchell, disposed of the body and the sewer. police have their answer as to why twitchell gave up the body. it was the prologue of his elaborate tail. his defense is a brilliant idea on the surface. he actually found a way to describe an entire police investigation that incriminated him to get him off scott free. in ohio, rene was following all of this online. i watched the live blog they had, and i was screaming my head off at home. you liar. were you afraid the jury would believe him? oh, yeah. you are looking at for the one person that has that doubt. take the doubt back to the deliberation room. gilles tetreault was in course dash cart the day it was completed. i got to sit in the second row. she looked back, my mom, and saw me. i didn t know how she would feel. she turned around and looked at me. she smiled. she grabbed my hand. she said i m so happy you are still with us. that meant so much to me. what was that like? i didn t know how she would feel toward me. when she did that, it was almost another closing moment for me. not for others in the courtroom. apparently not for the jury s deliberations dragged on. the time rolled on. people are thinking maybe there is someone out there who actually does believe mark twitchell. mark twitchell was a masterful liar, maybe this ultimate fantasy would beguile the jury. then that final audience trooped back into the courtroom and gave him his last review. they found him guilty of the premeditated first-degree murder of johnny altinger . he was sentenced to life in prison. i have never been involved in an investigation in my whole career. you theorizes someone has died. there is no doubt we don t always get it right. here we knew exactly what happened to johnny. because he told you. he told us. ultimately, johnny lettuce to a . and twitchell kept writing about it. he would ve kept writing dash cart killing. i did mark twitchell murder johnny altinger? was it a thrill killing? or something even darker? i think he wanted to experience the feeling of killing and dismembering a body. i think down the road, he was going to produce a film about it . he would be a producer who would tell his cast and crew and actors how to do it and only to himself he would know he has lived it. i think that is what he wanted to do. an ohio, rene, twitchell s friend, arrived at the same disturbing theory. i think he did it for artistic reasons. artistic reasons? i think he wanted to see how someone died so he could make a better story. film it better. write about a better. in fact, mark twitchell himself offered an answer to all the people who wondered why. he was different, he wrote in his sk confessions. he simply could not feel anyone. and so, intentionally or not, he offered a dismal reason for murdering a perfect stranger. it was a single line at the end of that horror movie of his house of cards when the killer tells his wife the best way to succeed is to write what you know. this is this is someone at a park at 3:00 am. i am andrea kncanning and this is dateline. i can t believe she would meet someone at a park at 3:00 a.m. i think she knew the second she got in his car that something was wrong. a college student disappears. i d liketo