Alex Witt hosts coverage of national and international news, including breaking stories. his son to cancel the meeting. he did not tell the fbi about the meeting. and if anything, he further encouraged and emboldened the russians to hack. because he went out just about a month and a half after the meeting and said, russia if you re listening which is two years ago from today as you pointed out you would be rewarded for hacking hillary clinton s e-mails. let s go to kelly o connell in new jersey also joining us u.s. congressman danny heck of washington and glenn kushner. first to you, kelly in berkeley heights, new jersey not too far where the president is spending the weekend at the bedminster resort. i want to talk about the ten different ways we ve counted that the president has refused to answer questions on camera regarding cohen in that 2016 trump tower meeting in the month of june. are we hearing any feedback from the white house on this? and all of this radio silence on this matter, how unusual is it? well, alex, white house officials are directing us to the president s outside counsel, saying any questions relating to that look to someone like rudy giuliani. and we have, we ve seen how rudy giuliani has gone from praising michael cohen as a trusted ally of the president and confidant and employee over a number of years now saying he s been untrustworthy, in fact, lying all of his life is one of the quotes attributed to rudy giuliani which certainly begs the question why would the president rely so heavily on someone they now claim to be a liar. when it comes to the white house, they are not speaking about this. the president is on the record in a few instances over the last year saying he knew nothing about it. now that the information has come forward that cohen would be willing to say to authorities that he has belief that president trump, then candidate trump, was informed in advance of the meeting with russian individuals that came to trump tower. so at this point, it makes it, the prime question you want to ask the president, there s this despairty. where is the truth. so, we ve counted a number of instances where the president has been in the company of rosters. you ve seen some of them play out on tv. i asked questions at the airport yesterday, for example when i was playing the pool reporter acting on behalf of all of the networks. earlier in the week some of our other cliegs did as well and the president has declined to answer those. he did respond using twitter where he said he did not know about the meeting with his son in advance. and claims this is cohen trying to offer something up to reduce the burden he may face on the case that involves hip. he s under investigation in the southern district of new york, on issues that, at least from what we ve been told by prosecutors paperwork, deal with his personal business dealings. and not necessarily directly tied to the president with the exception of the area of potential campaign finance violations. so, to get back to the heart of your question, the president didn t want to speak about it on camera. didn t so on twitter and his associates are saying please call the outside lawyers. alex. hey, kelly, can i ask you about the photo from politico playbook yesterday. can you describe what we re seeing here? by the way congressman heck is sitting on the set and laughing as well. bob mueller, donald junior, i put it out on social media with the caption, awkward. you can tell us what is happening here? well, it s really an extraordinary moment that in one frame it tells you a lot of what is happening in washington politics and culture. that gate one i ve traveled many times, 35x at reagan national airport. and it is a gate that has people waiting for a number of flights. so it s important to say they probably weren t heading to the exact destination. we just don t know. you there have robert mueller seated reviewing something in the frame. upper right-hand corner you see donald trump, jr. and what appear to be two secret service agents. he does get secret service protection. and robert mueller does get protected in his role. everyone can add a caption to it, what must they be thinking? clearly, people were aware they were in the same frame. we re told there was no visible interaction but what a memorable photo that captures what is in both of these men s lives right now. a focus on mueller from the trump side and a focus on trump from the mueller side. alex. thank you for the report. denny heck of washington, a he be of the house intelligence committee. you laughed at that picture. right, right. didn t we all. i have a dialogue bubble that i have in my head when i look at that photo, robert mueller is saying i will adhere to the highest levels of professionalism and not acknowledge him. and donald trump, jr. is saying, oh, my god, i m afraid i got to get away from this. as kelly o., a lot of different captions to that mine was just awkward. let s talk about the 2016 trump tower meeting in the month of june and the allegations that michael cohen is putting out there saying, look, donald trump, our president, then candidate, knew in advance about this meeting. right. both cohen and donald trump, jr. have testified before your committee. i know you can t confirm or deny. you know i can t. and won t as well. but what are your thoughts on this? so, i think the walls are closing in. i said that to you, i think, a week or so ago. this is yet another proof positive that the investigation is getting closer and closer in many regards. the fact of the matter is this is donald trump s worst nightmare, it s not just this revelation or allegation because it s yet to be corroborated but it s the fact there are 99 additional tapes into the one that was revealed this week. so, i think what is of material significa significance, here, alex, we ve moved from the area to conspiracy. with the meeting hiding in plain sight when he admonished the russians to go ahead and get hillary clinton s e-mails. now with prior knowledge and intent, we re now beginning to inch into the territory of conspiracy. and what s the difference? well, collusion isn t a federal crime. conspiracy is. who do you think has more credibility right now, is it michael cohen or is it donald trump? well, i wouldn t want to have to rely on the credibility of either of them. but i m hard-pressed to understand why at this point mr. cohen would be lying. for me, the question is always, where are the incentives for behavior. and i don t see any incentive from mr. cohen at this stage of this whole sordid affair to be lying. in that regard i guess i would mutt more credence in what it is he is saying. rudy giuliani had some thoughts. not surprising in what this all means. let s take a listen to what he said. i expected something like this from cohen. he s been lying all week. he s been lying for years. i don t see he has a credibility. if you had a trial, you d say which one do you want to pick, the first lie, a second lie or some new lie? there s nobody that knows him who hasn t warned him if he s backed against the wall he ll lie like crazy because he lied all his life. so interesting to what was being said a couple weeks ago. you impaired them when giuliani and the president saying that cohen is such a great guy. what changed? it seems to me the pattern that is discernible, the president has a habit of hiring lawyers that lie on his behalf. but the implication being what let s say michael cohen has done that in the past. and rudy giuliani is doing it now. or he was doing it earlier. and let s consider the possibility that michael cohen decides not to continue lying, if that is what he has done in the past. so, what are you taking away from that, the tenor of this relationship between these two, mostly trump and cohen? well, it s estranged, right? they re completely split apart. and michael cohen has decided to come clean. i think it was on your program that i once posited what would come into play would be the cohen index which is how many years would michael cohen be facing before he decided to come and tell the truth. i believe did you say that. i have the number at somewhere between 10 and 15. my guess is splomehow interacti with the u.s. attorney s office that he s come front and center and face-to-face with the fact that s what he has to endure and as a consequence, he s coming clean. what about the prospect of robert mueller now reportedly wanting to look at the president s tweets as part of the investigation. to what end how can tweets be used against the president or at least to gather information from mueller? words matter. i think what he s plumbing here is the prospect of obstruction of justice but i want to put it in perspective to help viewers understand, i think what it is we re really facing here in the near future. i deduce from raeding between the lines of what whether mueller is focusing on right now is obstruction of justice. i suggest if he doesn t come out with anything during the month of august that he s going to wait until after the general election because he will respect the fbi s traditional practice of not trying to do something in the middle of a campaign. the truth is obstruction of justice is, of course, only one of the risks that president trump faces. he has the conspiracy with the russians to interfere with the election which is a violation of federal crime. and underneath it all, what we ve all wondered about and try to get at the truth at, and that is, the issue of the flow of the money between him and the russians dating back some time. and whether or not racketeering or bank fraud or any number of crimes was committed. that brings mean to mike pompeo who testified before the senate judiciary committee. and his query which will come into play, with what went on between the president and vladimir putin. let s take a listen. just to ask a simple question i just can t i want my seven minutes, mr. secretary. did he tell you what happened in that two hours? yes, the predicate implied there was something about having a one-on-one meeting. i completely disagree. i didn t ask you a predicate, did he tell you i had a number of conversations about what transpired in the meeting. i was also in the meeting when he and president pruiutin and - lavrov, i think i have a complete understanding. did you speak to the translators at that meeting? no, i haven t. first of all, your thoughts on this? and do you have any certainty that our secretary of state has more information that went on in that meeting which we have all gotten from published reports or those who have spoken about it? none whatsoever. i don t have much confidence that he does have 100 readout of what went on in that meeting. the truth of the matter while he s not is improper per se and also completely unconventional and norm-shattering especially in the context of where we are in relationship with russia. if the president had want ed secretary of state pompeo to have a 100 readout of that meeting he would have had him in that meeting. what is your reaction for president putin inviting president trump to continue the discussions? is that a one-way ticket? does that shift the balance, is it a concern to you? if it were to take place, do you think it should happen in washington? or do you think it should happen at all? i became very concerned if not disturbed over the state of our relations with russia quite some time ago. and the prospect of the president going to moscow to frankly elevate the profile of president putin and promises who knows what yet again and continue in what seems to be his unrelenting campaign in support of his automatcrat. and he arrests people in his own country, alex, because he doesn t want anybody to know the truth. he murders people who are political centers. there s no way we should lend legitimacy to this man s reign. in fact are there areas that would be productsi iproductive collaborate on like a cyber security agreement? sure. but this is not the way to undertake it. he has to be held on account the the president should live up to the sanction bill which passed overwhelmingly in the united states congress and hold him accountable and then have the conversations. representative denny heck, it s very happy. happy birthday to maureen. i wasn t supposed to stay anything, but i m not on the intelligence committee. gauging on how other people s business and president trump s private business could be at odds wait for it the constitution, a legal battle against the president gets a green light, next. i would not want to pay that insurance bill. [ ding ] -oh, i have progressive, so i just bundled everything with my home insurance. saved me a ton of money. -love you, gary! -you don t have to buzz in. it s not a question, gary. on march 1, 1810 [ ding ] -frédéric chopin. -collapsing in 226 [ ding ] -the colossus of rhodes. -[ sighs ] louise dustmann [ ding ] -brahms lullaby, or wiegenlied. -when will it end? [ ding ] -not today, ron. -when will it end? [ ding ] here s a trip tip: when you search hotels on tripadvisor. enter your destination and the dates of your stay. tripadvisor searches over 200 booking sites. to find the best deal on the right hotel for you. tripadvisor. when it comes to strong bones, are you on the right path? we have postmenopausal osteoporosis and a high risk for fracture, so with our doctors we chose prolia® to help make our bones stronger. only prolia® helps strengthen bones by stopping cells d.c. hotel to go forward. joining me now, glenn kirschner, former prosecutor. the lawsuit accuses the president of benefitting improperly when officials stay at his hotel just walks away from the white house. it s the first time that a judge has applied the structure of the emoluments clause. tell me why it s significant? alex, it s significant for a couple of reasons. the one, the most obvious one, we need to know when the president in conducting his business both in the united states and around the world is actually acting financially and benefitting from the fact that he owns these properties, again, in america and around the world. the second thing that is significant, a civil proceeding is pretty dramatic from a criminal prosecution. answer it and it s going to give the unprecedented scrutiny to the president s business dealings around the world. it probably would have taken almost heroic efforts to put all of these properties or assets in blind trusts so that the president was not actually personally been and his family was not personally benefitting. and i haven t seen any indication that that was done. and as pete williams reporting has shown us, i think this is exactly why the judge has allowed these suits to go forward and has denied the motion to dismiss that was filed by the department of justice, on the president s behalf. okay. switching gears here. of course, sources telling nbc news that michael cohen is willing to tell that the president knew in advance of the june 2016 trump tower meeting? did you see this coming. i would say i probably did see it coming. and here s why, we have now heard reporting that michael cohen can provide information to the government that president trump knew about the trump tower meeting in advance. the reason i think we did see this coming is because, when you look at the timetable of, first of all, the e-mail string that basically don junior offered. he had to get in front of it, because he knew that news was about to break. let s look at that e-mail string for a minute. the e-mail string itself says things like, hey, you know what, russia wants donald trump to be elected. and the russian government is in donald trump s corner. and the russian government can provide incriminating information about hillary clinton. now what does donald junior do with that information? if he didn t know before that time, that russia wanted his father to be elected president, human nature tells us, he would have sprinted to his father s office. and said, dad, dad, great news. russia s backing you. russia wants you to win and russia has incriminating information about your opponent. so, i think human nature tells us you can t help but do that, if this is brand-new information and it s a revelation to you. so, again, it seems like the president would have known. but let s flip that on its head, alex. if donald junior didn t run to his father with that information, what can we infer from that? well, we can infer that donald junior must have already known that russia was his father s corner. you know, i ve said recently that maybe for donald junior, this was just another day at camp collusion because he had already been made aware that russia was trying to help his father get elected. thank you very much for the conversation. good to see you. is the government doing enough to protect our election? we re going to ask a u.s. intelligence expert who wrote the book about russian interference in 2016. - i love my grandma. - anncr: as you grow older, your brain naturally begins to change which may cause trouble with recall. - learning from him is great. when i can keep up! - anncr: thankfully, prevagen helps your brain and improves memory. - dad s got all the answers. - anncr: prevagen is now the number-one-selling brain health supplement in drug stores nationwide. - she outsmarts me every single time. - checkmate! you wanna play again? - anncr: prevagen. healthier brain. better life. stay at la quinta. where we re changing with stylish make-overs. then at your next meeting, set your seat height to its maximum level. bravo, tall meeting man. start winning today. book now at lq.com to significantly improve lung function all day and all night. anoro is not for asthma. it contains a type of medicine that increases risk of death in people with asthma. the risk is unknown in copd. anoro won t replace rescue inhalers for sudden symptoms and should not be used more than once a day. tell your doctor if you have a heart condition, high blood pressure, glaucoma, prostate, bladder, or urinary problems. these may worsen with anoro. call your doctor if you have worsened breathing, chest pain, mouth or tongue swelling, problems urinating, vision changes, or eye pain while taking anoro. ask your doctor about anoro. go your own way get your first prescription free at anoro.com. joining me now an nbc trim analyst, malcolm is the author of the plot to hack america. some of the details of the meeting, malcolm, 30 minutes long. i don t think that s long enough for experts to lay out what they re even doing, right? no, it wasn t long at all. in fact, you barely get through going through the first round of introductions and pouring coffee in the first 30 minutes. this meeting was really a sham. it s not meant to actually do anything. as you know, the house voted down provisions which would have increased the electoral security. the trump administration has no interest in securing this election. it worked out for them the last time. so the president held this meeting that because john kelly thought they should at least address it. then he jumped on an airplane and went golfing. but in terms of that meeting playing out and leading to something, do you have any hope on that regard. let s be honest. this president is pretty tough, notoriously so in terms of getting briefed on things. maybe 30 minutes is all he s going to apply to it and leave it to others to handle it for him. can that be effective? well shg, that s a possibili. we ve known for the last years when you have a president of the united states that says everything that occurred in the 2016 election was an inside hoax or a job by a 400 pound guy, that s your determination of trying to come to terms with happened. our defense right now is coming from the intelligence agencies and departments of homeland security who have just been maintains the basics which were established during the obama administration. as of right now, there are no marching orders whatsoever, for the protection of this election. and the hacking attempt, or the phishing attempt on senator claire mccaskill is an example that russia doesn t concern themselves with what we re going to do. what about the president threatening to veto the security clearances and former intel officers who criticized his response to russian interference. what s your reaction to that? it s just another example of the politics of personal destruction that president trump plays by. this is extraordinary. no one has ever done this. the last person who actually wrote down an enemy s list and decided to go after them was richard nixon. and you saw how that ended. that s precisely what that is. saying that you re going after security clearances of two of those people on the list because everybody else had surrendered their clearances or no longer have a billet for that, the president was just being petty. and people in that community understands what that means. mike pompeo, i want to get your take on his appearance before the senate foreign relations committee. first take a listen to how he found out what was discussed with the president s one-on-one meeting with vladimir putin in helsinki. i had a number of conversations about what transpired in the meeting. and i was present with the president in the meeting. and i also had a chance to discuss with servegy lavrov what took place. did you speak to the translator at that meeting? no, i haven t. did the president tell you that he discussed relaxing russia s sanctions, yes or no? the president is entitled to have private meetings. i m telling you what u.s. policy is. did the secretary of state need to speak with the translators, malcolm? yes, i think he does need to speak to the translator. i think everyone in this country needs to know what the president said and agreed to in that meeting. if you listen to what secretary pompeo said, every bit of information he got either became from vladimir putin and the former minister sergey lavrov and then he had outlines coming from the president. you know, donald trump is famous for not telling the truth in these meetings, to the point when he would have lawsuits they would have two lawyers in the room at any given time. this is the national security of the united states. the president should not be conducting one-on-one meetings with foreign powers where it appears he was cutting deals or setting up the outlines of the deals and we the american public don t know anything about it. i m curious what you think of inviting vladimir putin to moscow and sending the president to moscow to further their conversations? well, the president is just an easily manipulatable person. i m saying that as an intelligence professional. many people who have been in this community know what i m talking about. he is just so happy to be around vladimir putin that vladimir putin on day one, after the united states gave an invitation through secretary bolton, or, i m sorry, national security adviser bolton for the president to invite vladimir putin to the united states. the russians demurred. then within four 48 hours, the russians pulled a chain and said, no, we d like him to come to washington. he jumped on it. he s a former kgb officer, he knows how to get everything out of trump and whichever meeting happens it is going to be framed in russia s narrative for russia s benefit. not ours. malcolm nance, good to see you. coming up, democratic voters are angry and energyized but will it be enough to take back the house and the senate? but before the break, it s all about michael cohen s take in late-night. apparently cohen will record these calls and meetings on his iphone instead of taking notes because it s easier than taking notes to refer to is that. i m starting to think maybe trump doesn t hire all the best people. no i got no reaction. it s hard to hear. because the only thing that michael cohen is worse at than lawyering is sound recording. you know who is really annoyed about this? russia, they re like, why are we putting so much work on spying on these americans when they seem to be doing it to themselves. and they ve learned because it involved playboy, but i m only in it for the articles. i ve been making blades here at gillette for 20 years. there s a lot of innovation that goes into making america s #1 shave. precision machinery and high-quality materials from around the world. nobody else even comes close. now starting at $7.99. gillette. the best a man can get. i m looking at your most recent article entitled look out, democratic voters are angry and energized. where does the anger stem from? i think it comes from the 2016 election where they feel like donald trump used an advantage from a foreign power. i think it comes from the serial outrages that they see. donald trump s attack on our democratic institutions and norms. they see it from the attack on the health care system. and even from things like the tariffs which have disrupted the farm economy in the great midwest. so, i think there are substantive policy reasons and i think there s a great outrage at him specifically. at the lies. at the bullying at the misogyny. i think the democratic base is as energized e ed as i ve seen. look, republicans hold a narrow majority in the senate. and a pretty nice cushion in the house. what do you think the chance are that the democrats take back the house and the senate? the problem chance of takinge house is very strong at this point. one for donald trump they have a number of retirees, that is, open seats that do not have the power of the incumbency. and the second problem is there really has been a shift in the support. college educated people. suburbs, women, have dramatically shifted in favor of the democrats. republicans have relied on maybe not the majority of all of those groups but a large base of support within them. if those people turn out like they did, for example in 2017 where some of the special elections or state elections in virginia, for example, the democrats are going to get quite a boost. i think those factors are heavily working in their favor. the senate is a higher proposition for the democrats because their defending so many of those seats and so many of them from red states. claire mccaskill and heidi heitkamp, and that said, they have very good pickup possibilities both nevada and arizona looking strong for them. and now, even tennessee does. they lucked out and had a former very popular governor running for the democrats so that may be another pickup opportunity as well. if not winning back the senate, i can certainly see them gaining a net one that would be a 50/50 tie meaning mike pence would have to spend an awful lot of time in the senate. let s look at the poll numbers that i referenced at the top of the interview here. generic house ballot. all democrats, 51%. and republicans, 39%. we have another one to show you that we re going to put up as well as we take a look at that with midterm elections, what, 15 weeks from now? do you think it s likely the tide could change from then and now. at this point, i think you talk about charlie cook in his vast experience with the cook political report in the article, where things stand now would hold? that s something that charlie cook put a lot of confidence in. once the bake is sort of baked if you will, during the summer, it s very hard to shift the electorate s mind-set. is it possible that something extraordinary out of the blue could happen? i assume so. but particularly, the economy, although it s in the background is not necessarily the decisive factor here. it s certainly keeping the bottom from falling out on the republican. either a minor uptick or downtick, if you will, in the economy, i don t think we ll be able to shift people. well have a very polarized electorate right now. what about the shift in the polls does that find as an indicator of what happens in 2020 or is that a horse of a different your? it s an indication that democrats are starting to get their act together. but you re right, 2020 is a different act altogether. you have to come up with a nominee that s going to beat donald trump or some other republican. and right now there s a vast, vast number of democrats with no clear front-runner. they re going to have to pick someone wisely. and they re going to have to make the case that they have a better alternative to donald trump. a lot of people couldn t stand hillary clinton. democrats have to understand that point. they have to get a likable candidate that can take it to donald trump. that process is going to begin the moment the polls close on election day this year. as you know, the presidential election cycle has gotten very long these days. and as soon as those results are in, you re going to see the 2020 contenders rev up and start running their campaigns. yeah, without even taking a breath it seems. you re 100% right on that. very interesting piece from you, not surprised, jennifer rubin. thank you. next, who do you believe? president trump battling his attorney michael cohen with both sides arguing over what the president knew and when he knew it. but first, why ivanka trump decided to shut down her clothing line more than a year after stepping away from the company. what do you have there? p3 it s meat, cheese and nuts. i keep my protein interesting. oh yea, me too. i have cheese and uh these herbs. p3 snacks. the more interesting way to get your protein. well, esurance makes it simple and affordable. in fact, drivers who switched from geico to esurance saved an average of $412. that s auto and home insurance for the modern world. esurance. an allstate company. click or call. paying too much for insurance that isn t the right fit? well, esurance makes finding the right coverage easy. in fact, drivers who switched from geico to esurance saved an average of $412. that s auto and home insurance for the modern world. esurance. an allstate company. click or call. chief and blake, first, you have giuliani there on the attack and reports that president cohen are dead to each other now. and taking the mueller probe as the president s biggest problem, he s got to focus on michael cohen, what he might do if he turns? yeah, i mean, trump said the other day it was like a betrayal from his son. and, you know, we ve heard that trump hasn t treated cohen very well for years. and maybe the bill is coming due for that. it certainly seems like it s very bitter feud right now. and i think there are reasons to be worried from what i hear from the white house. they are much more worried about the seventh district of new york probe than the mueller probe. they have more sense of what s coming from bob mueller s team than from new york. it looks like cohen keep lobing he s grenades into the news cycle and i think it s scaring the white house. do you think it s the smartest thing for the trump team to do, steph, to go after the man who is the president s right-hand man for a decade. he s called his fixer. are both sides fuelling out of emotion now? is there a clear strategy that you can see? it is ironic, if you think about giuliani just a few months ago saying that cohen is an honorable honest layer and nwyew saying he s a liar repeatedly. in one sense, saying the other person is the liar is one of the only real strategies they have. someone has to be lying. and both have incentive to lie. okay. we re going to switch now to yesterday s both non-cohen big news. the new gdp numbers. just after these numbers were released. donald trump, jr. tweeted, incredible numbers. i remember when the experts laughed about breaking 3% just because obama never broke 2% doesn t mean someone with great policies can t let s keep it going. it seems john harwood plies with the gdp reaching it at least five times. blake, do the departures from the truth really on the part of donald trump, jr. does that at all register with the public? this is to blake. sorry about that. i don t know how much people know about donald trump in the public eye. but certainly, among, you know, people that follow him like me, he doesn t a lot of credibility. and i don t think he s corrected that tweet. you know, he s not very interested in accuracy. and that s just another example of it. but, you know, it s been a long road from 2008 recession. and maybe mentally, a lot of people think the economy was worse under obama than it actually was. but, steph, i m curious if this isn t a tricky game to play. because if the economic pendulum swings the other way, they ve just taken credit for all of it. exactly. that is the danger in claiming the successes. obviously, the economy is in a good place, especially looking at midterms. that s a top issue for voters. in one place it s smart for the president to be claiming these as wins but it s also dangerous because if this is a bubble and if the economy does crash, then again, we have tapes and tweets of the trump administration taking ownership of that. i want to move to first daughter and white house special assistant ivanka trump who earlier this month announced she s going to shut down her namesake fashion brand which he continued to own despite being separated from day-to-day operationses. ivanka says she doesn t know if she ll ever return. earlier a canadian company announced it s going to pull all of her products from over 90% of heir stores and that s in addition to when nordstroms did as well. what s behind the company break? do you think it s not faring so well financially? i don t think you shut down a company precipitously like this if it s not doing well. i m not a big ivanka trump shoe buyer, but from what i gather, there were lots of complaints about the quality and fabric. i don t think ivanka trump s brand is so hot right now. so i think that played a role. do you think that president trump s children had any idea their father would send a ripple through their lives in this way? i don t think they had any idea just how vast that would be. of course, it s made their brand a political statement even with the trump properties and who stays there. and of course, ivanka s brand. purchasing something from a trump brand might mean something more than it had before donald trump blame president. i think that s a difficult thing to deal with. so, i don t think it s surprising especially given how many department stores and large companies have stopped holding the line that i vvanka decided end it. and all of the products not made here in the united states. very good to see you both. coming up, president trump former fixer michael cohen gets aggressive. what does he know? and what is he willing to tell robert mueller? i tried cold turkey, i tried the patch. they didn t work for me. i didn t think anything was going to work for me until i tried chantix. chantix, along with support, helps you quit smoking. chantix reduced my urge to smoke. i needed that to quit. when you try to quit smoking, with or without chantix, you may have nicotine withdrawal symptoms. some people had changes in behavior or thinking, aggression, hostility, agitation, depressed mood, or suicidal thoughts or actions with chantix. serious side effects may include seizures, new or worse heart or blood vessel problems, sleepwalking or allergic and skin reactions which can be life-threatening. stop chantix and get help right away if you have any of these. tell your healthcare provider if you ve had depression or other mental health problems. decrease alcohol use while taking chantix. use caution when driving or operating machinery. the most common side effect is nausea. i can t tell you how good it feels to have smoking behind me. talk to your doctor about chantix.
good, i like that, i like where you re going. you can see more of these and other interviews we conducted on our website at recode.net and stay tuned for exciting news on the revolution special. i m cara swisher. thanks for watching. see you next time. welcome to kasie d.c. i m kasie hunt. we are live every sunday from washington from 7:00 to 9:00 p.m. eastern. tonight is actually tomorrow. president trump is waking up in singapore ahead of an historic summit with north korean leader kim jong-un. after a dramatic several days of will they or won t they, it looks like they will ieed meet. will trump s intuition help him close the deal? plus, fallout from the president s performance at the g7 summit. basically up ending years of global diplomacy with, you guessed it, a single tweet. and the debate rages on over presidential pardon power. a special counsel robert mueller files new charges against paul manafort. i ll ask connecticut senator richard blumenthal about that when he joins me live. but first,sa picture is worth a thousand words. and as with everything in the trump administration, that may be an understatement. of course, there is this photo from the g7 tweeted out by a spokesman for angela merkel showing the german chancellor with her hands planted staring down at her american counterpart. there is also this one showing a white imprint on president trump s right hand following yet another hard handshake with french president emmanuel macron. and then there is this one of imf managing director and chairman christine lagarde with a withering look as the president shows up late for a breakfast focused on gender equality. of course, they will all be overshadowed in about 24 hours by the image of a sitting american president meeting with the leader of north korea for the first time ever. the question now is what, if anything, will that meeting amount to beyond just that photo op? with that i want to women come in my panel. joining me on set from political acts uotsuri, jonathan swan. msnbc national security analyst evelyn farkas. political reporter ken vogel. and joining us all the way from singapore and pulitzer prize winning white house bureau chief for the washington post philip rucker. phil, i want to start with you since you are on scene, the site of all of the action. i m been enjougiying all the instagram photos from jw marriott. you write, and i thought this was a really on point frame. one, is a septegenarian president, the other a millennial president. they mix taunts and tributes to keep the other off balance. thin skinned alphas, both men are wed to a go it alone leadership style, have a penchant for bomb past and project dominance when they finally meet. so, at what what is your sense of how things are unfolding there on the ground in singapore so far? and what do you think these two personalities how is the president going to end up handling this? yeah, kasie, they both arrived here in singapore last night. it is now morning, monday morning. president trump is scheduled to be meeting with the prime minister of singapore later today and then of course on tuesday with kim jong-un. and they have been sizing each other up for months, really for years. kim jong-un and the north korean delegation have been studying donald trump, the history about him, the art of the deal, sort of understanding his personality. trump is doing the same about kim. i think trump sees this very much as a clash of personalities as an opportunity to size up the north korean dictator, something no american president has been able to do face to face. and as he said the other day, he ll know within a minute or two whether there is something here, whether kim can come to the table and have a deal. now, if you start looking at the substance of what that deal could be, it gets very messy because that s not worked out. unclear what sort of deliverables they could walk away from this meeting with, but trump is very eager at least have the meeting and try to make friends with the dictator. phil, is there a view that there may be any risk for the president in simply having this photo op? what is the thinking, what has been told about whether he should smile, how he should present himself in what we know is going to be an instantly iconic picture? well, it s an iconic picture that the north koreans very much want. for them this is, this is an achievement in and of itself, getting an audience with the president, putting kim jong-un on equal footing with the american commander in chief and it will be used in propaganda back home by the north koreans to show kim asarneng respe around the world. so the danger for trump is he s giving kim something by simply shaking his hand and meeting him. we ll have to see what the body language looks like. i think it will be really striking, for example, if trump is kinder to kim jong-un than he was to justin trudeau in canada and some of the other european allies he was with the at the g7 in quebec the other day. the body language from the photos that you showed at the beginning of the show was so striking and we ll have to see if trump is more relaxed and frankly more enjoying himself when he s face to face with the north korean leader. so, as you reference a minute ago, the president did say it won t take long for him to tell if kim jong-un is serious about ma making a deal. i think within the first minute i ll know. how? my touch, my feel. that s what i do. if i think it won t happen, i m not going to waste my time. i don t want to waste his time. jonathan swan, your take on that. philip rucker mentioned this is a clash of personalities. you have reporting about that. the president has been in his briefings fixated on kim jong-un s personality, wanting to know everything he can about him. he s been asking mike pompeo who has met with him, the only one of his top aides. the allied agencies have compiled a detailed study, profile of kim jong-un largely taken from interviews with some of his former class made when he attended an elite swiss school in his adolescence. interesting. the profile, we got this from someone who studied it carefully, the classified binder. it bears a striking resemblance to the kim jong-un you see today. he described him as the young kim jong-un from these interviews, almost sick. would be prone to fits of anger and outbursts of violence. apparently there were young children he hit during this. he was an inattentive student. didn t attend class very much, and demanded slaveish loyalty from his classmates. slaveish loyalty. evelyn farkas, what does this tell you if you re preparing the president to meet with this man? first of all, it s not surprising because this is the guy who had his brother killed and his uncle killed. so, anyone who would be any kind of threat to him and his power has been eliminated. we understand he s a pretty ruthless guy. although he s said it s not military force, his father had military first. he s saying economy first after we get our he wants a mcdonald s. yes, i know. and that he has in common with the president, with our president, of course, because our president loves hamburgers and i guess he likes mcdonald s. i can t remember if that was he does. fillet of fish. sometimes without the bread. i think if he s smart, le study our president, kim jong-un, and just butter it up, he has one minute to butter him up. it s impressive that they re doing this level of preparation. certainly one of the concerns is there was no preparation and it would be nice if that preparation was also on the policy side and not just on the personality side. you know, famously george w. bush, when he was meeting with vladimir putin said that he could assess and he was someone who was deste libal sort of stereotypes of him, was actually someone who did prepare on the policy side as well as the personality side and said that he looked putin in the eye, could see into his soul and found him trustworthy and straightforward. came to regret that was incorrect. there s only so far the personality goes. policy is the key here. that was because he looked at the dossier that he had on putin, looked at the dossier on bush, knew he was religious. he referenced he had a cross and he talked about this cross and the meaning for him. so, in part so he played bush. philip rucker, i want to go to you on this. we talked so much about how the president prepares or doesn t prepare for all kinds of meetings, but none with stakes as high as this one. if, in fact, american authorities, they do have this binder jonathan swan is now reporting on, it still see as though this president is absorbing that information only by having verbal conversations with people who have read it. is that your sense? i think that s right, kasie. this is a president, donald trump, who does not read his daily intelligence report that s written out for him. instead he participate in more oral briefings. the cia director will come into the oval office and show him graphics, videos, pictures, maps, charts, anything that can help him visually understand the intelligence because we know he doesn t like to sit down and pour over the written word. i assume that s the case now as he s preparing to meet with kim jong-un. trump has said he doesn t require much preparation for this meeting. that s not quite right. according to mike pompeo, the secretary of state who said he s been having very extensive briefings with president trump for several weeks now, months really, trying to prepare him for this, trying to get him to understand sort of the history of u.s./korea relations, the history of north and south korea relations, sort of the details that are at stake. even if he s not an expert in the technicality of nuclear arms, he at least can understand the sort of broader geopolitical dynamic at play with north korea as he prepares for the meeting. let s turn now to all of the drama that preceded this evening, the g7 summit. just a few hours after the president called his relationship with g7 allies a 10, he pulled the u.s. out of the g7 joint communique as a result of what he called justin trudeau s, quote, false statements. he went on to tweet, quote, pm, justin trudeau of canada acted so meek and mild during our g7 meetings only to give a news conference after i left saying that about u.s. tariffs. he stabbed us in the back. he really, actually, you know what, he did a great disservice to the whole g7. he betrayed trudeau did? yes, he did. we were very close to making a deal with canada on nta, bilaterally, perhaps, and then we leave, and trudeau pulls this sophomoric political stunt for domestic consumption. you juston t behave that way, okay. it s a betrayal. essentially double crossing. not just double crossing president trump, but the other members of the g7 who were working together and pulling together this communique. there is a special place in hell for any foreign leader that engages in bad faith diplomacy with president donald j. trump and then tries to stab him in the back on the way out the door. that s what bad faith justin trudeau did with that bad stunt press conference. and that comes right from air force one. after those comments, senator jeff flake tweeting, quote, fellow republicans, this is not who we are. this cannot be our p. once again, flake pretty lonely so far in his condemnation of the president. kin vogel, how much self-awareness is there? the tweets from trump minutes after leaving the setting, calling out another world leader for being like meek in person and then saying something negative after the fact and then also false statements, trump has actually bragged about bluffing justin trudeau on the trade deficit using false statements. so, it s pretty rich to see him accusing this foreign leader of doing the same thing that we ve seen him do himself. jonathan swan, i mean, this we knew that the president had already caused all sorts of potentially irreversible problems with the canadian government after making this announcement on tariffs. but the way that the this g7 summit concluded, i mean, is it possible we ve seen some tweets from john mccain, for example, that suggest that some day america s allies will see the americans who are actually on their side. is that possible at this point? well, we ve been talking to european officials who are having the same problems with the president, particularly, you know, when you look at germany, even france after they got to a better place. that s been reversed. the u.k. what they re trying to do is have this long-range view that this is a president for this moment, but move beyond that. but they still have the military ties and they lean on that. they look for positives where they can. the reality is transatlantic relations haven t been this bad. we re not talking about transatlantic. here on the continent. canada, too, but the european relationship has been profoundly damaged in the last few months over trade as well. shinzo abe was standing there as well. when it comes to economic issues, this is global. and this is serious. and i think what was interesting to me, i think we need more reporting on this, but it appears reading between the lines in the way the post covered it today, that the europeans actually staged an intervention. so that photo may have been that intervention where they said, okay, mr. president trump, these are the facts. 70% of the foreign direct investment in the united states of america comes from european countries. and by the way, a lot of that goes to southern states that voted for trump. we should point out, that interview, particularly knnovar, that s an extreme i ve seen from an official to say there is a special place in hell for him and give him labels like weak and dishonest. that is taking rhetoric to a level i honestly haven t seen and i ve been covering trump for almost three years now. and the level of silence from most republicans in washington feels deafening. i guess they have so many things to be outraged about that they sort of pick their moments, but their moments are pretty rare, aren t they? phil rucker, can i get you to weigh in on this, how this all unfolded? seems like a classic case of the president making one decision in the room and then either watching justin trudeau s press conference, being briefed on it and making very abrupt decision and kind of reversing himself entirely. what are the consequence here? are these relationships reparable? well, the consequence are quite severe for the relationship as the panel has been discussing. but the pattern is familiar for trump. i mean, he s someone who when he s in the room with you, whether it s, you know, a fellow foreign leader or even just a journalist for an interview, he wants you to like him. he wants to try to create a level of warmth there. he wants to he doesn t usually confront people face to face. and then the meeting is over and he goes off on twitter as he did aboard air force one from canada en route to singapore. i mean, this is just a familiar pattern for donald trump and he bullies sometimes, but he likes to bully with a distance. he doesn t like to do it face to face with the people he s trying to bully. you mentioned at the top of the show, too, looking at that picture of angela merkel and the other lead erdos surrounding the president, that sort of dark, almost angry look on his face and how that could potentially differ from it certainly already differs from him receiving the letter from the north koreans, you remember in the oval office where he was smiling and holding that giant envelope. we talked about this a lot, i know, whether he has an affinity for dictators. what is it that explains why he s so hostile in a room of people that have been allies of the united states for decades and seems so warm and open to these other people who have been our enemies? well, he s so open to kim jong-un in part because it s his bid for history. you know, trump, it stuck with him for the first time he sat down with president barack obama after the election and before trump was inaugurated, obama told him, look, north korea is the biggest challenge you re going to face in sort of a national security sense around the world. and this was a problem that obama couldn t fix. the nuclear development in north korea. and so that stuck with trump and it s been a motivating factor ever since. he wants to outdo obama. he wants to solve the problem his predecessors couldn t. because of that he s in ultimate salesman mode now. he wants the north koreans to like him. he wants the north koreans to come to the negotiating table with him. he wants them to agree to a deal so he s willing to flatter kim jong-un. he s willing to, you know, pose to for that picture with the envelope in the oval office with the big smile on his face because he feels like this is his opportunity to do something truly historic as president. ken, you want to have the last word before we go? to your point about the warmness towards adversaries and coolness towards traditional allies, you know who is loving this tension at the g7 is vladimir putin. his whole goal was to drive wedges between the traditional western alliances and he s got that. he s meeting with the chinese and other officials at the shanghai cooperation organization annual meeting. good points, all. we re going to have more discussion on that in particular later in the show. philip rucker, thank you so much. have a great morning in singapore. thanks for getting up early for us. i really appreciate it. that summit is just about 12 hours away. we re going to have much more on the face-to-face meeting throughout our show. still to come, though, fighting with canada, legitimatizing russia. where is the president s party? as my colleague chuck todd put it, is the stunned silence from most of the gop really their comment? i ask a republican member of congress when he joins the panel next. kasie d.c. back after this. we must stop dirty language from getting to our children s ears. what is the source? hat s easy. times have changed. our kids are getting worse. they won t obey their parents. should we blame the government. owe blame owe site. or should we blame the images on tv. no, blame canada. blame canada. for their beady little eyes. blame canada. dad? hi! i had a very minor fender bender tonight in an unreasonably narrow fast food drive thru lane. but what a powerful life lesson. and don t worry i have everything handled. i already spoke to our allstate agent, and i know that we have accident forgiveness. which is so smart on your guy s part. like fact that they ll just. forgive you. four weeks without the car. okay, yup. good night. with accident forgiveness your rates won t go up just because of an accident. switching to allstate is worth it. until her laptop her sacrashed this morning.eks, having it problems? ask a business advisor how to get on demand tech support for as little as $15 a month. this week get boise case paper for only $29.99 at office depot office max. you wouldn t accept from any one else. why accept it from your allergy pills? flonase relieves your worst symptoms including nasal congestion, which most pills don t. flonase helps block 6 key inflammatory substances. most pills only block one. flonase. joining us is congressman francis rooney. i want to start with senator graham was talking about there which is the potential for an authorization of use of military force against north korea. is that something that you feel like maybe necessary in the near future, or does it seema los angeles ramsist? seem alarmist? we have the president negotiating with north korea right now in singapore in historic point. why be talking about military force? let s see where things go. and what s your assessment of how the president has handled this so far? he essentially says he s going to know in just a few moments whether kim jong-un is serious. i don t know about that, but i think he s actually his unique style has done better to bring china and north korea to the table than any of his three p d predecessors. that doesn t mean it s going to work out well. they re at the table. he left the g7 summit early. flies to singapore. when he leaves there s an impression there is a communique the g7 is signing onto, but he starts tweeting. i think we have the trump tweet we can show you about this communique, saying, no, actually, justin trudeau of canada acted so meek and mild during our g7 meetings only to give a news conference after i left saying the tariffs were kind of insulting and he will not be pushed around. he called his dishonest and weak. our tariffs are in response to he talks about dairy tariffs there. one of his advisors were on the tv morning shows this morning and said there is a special place in hell for people like that. your take. those are pretty strong words, but there is no such thing as really is canada not our ally? canada is our ally. is that how we should be treating our friends? no, we shouldn t be talking about them like that. the washington post had an article talking about percentage of products with 15% plus tariffs. canada is over 7%. the united states is less than 3. they re no better than anybody else in terms of protecting their particular sacred cows. everybody has their sacred cows in trade. is this worth throwing away, decades of a relationship with an ally over something like this? i think we should continue to discuss how to reform nafta, and keep our hemispheric relationship intact. the treasury department of mexico in a bipartisan dinner monday night to talk about that very thing. do you think the president is acting correctly towards kevin trudeau or not? he s boisterous and irritated things didn t go his way. at the end of the day, canada is our ally, strong ally. the not going to go anywhere. we re not going to go anywhere. do you think the damage is irreversible? no, i think words come and go. i think canada is going to be there and we re going to be there. we have a 240-year history with canada and this will work its way out. okay. jonathan swan. congressman, do you believe america s relationships with its allies are better or worse under donald trump? i think that there are some there have been a lot of things said that might be better off not have said and i think there s a lot of tension right now, especially in the world in the area of trade and the whole tariff thing. i basically feel the w.t.o. system has provided a lot of good to the world, to the united states and to the world and so i m a little worried about upsetting that. but you do a cost benefit analysis of this unique style you describe where a year and a half in, are the positives out weighing the negatives? are we better off today? let s see 23 we if we re betf with north korea. we might be better off with north korea but not better off in trade. what are the risks of engaging with kim jong-un? let hope mr. trump doesn t want to make a deal too much where his predecessors have willing to giveaway the farm. if he s willing to walk away, willing to be tough and stand firm, maybe we can actually break the back and make some headway. what does that look like? what is success? success i think would be a stopping it would be along the lines of iran, the iran agreement. but with better verification, thorough verification and no short time line. it would be a permanent deal where they would stop nuclearization. we would be able to inspect everything they re doing. and basically bring the community of nations them into the community of nations. can we offer them enough to give up their nuke s? i m not sure. i m not sure we can. i want to pull the conversation where we were. we have a tweet from senator john mccain. if we can put that up on the screen. he says, quote, to our allies, bipartisan of majority of americans are supportive of alliance based on 70 years of shared values. americans stand with you even if our president doesn t. do you stand with john mccain or president trump? well, i think that all the language is a little strident. senator mccain s language has its own personal bias because he has it in for the president. the president s language is strong. at the end of the day, the w.t.o. system, even though it s been exploited by china, china is the enemy, not europe. do you think americans are on the side of the president? lindsey graham talked about this on the sunday shows. while i m with john mccain and our allies, he s not sure the rest are with them on trade policies. i don tw the average person in america understands what we re talking about here. at the end of the day, technology has had a lot of influence on what happened to jobs, not just outsourcing to mexico and places like that. and we re in a different era now with service economy and we need to adjust our economy to deal with it. and so that s one thing, is retuning our employment base to deal with the jobs that are there today. the other thing, of course, is the need to make sure that we trade with the world and we continue to have the supply chains that we have to keep our products cheap, to build our service doesn t sound like you re a huge fan of the president s trade policy. no, i m not. like i said, i had the ambassador from mexico and the people from the hacienda up this week in a bipartisan dinner to talk about how we really feel nafta needs to be reformed a little bit, but kept in place. but kept in place. okay. that does seem at odds with where the president is. congressman rooney, thank you for being here tonight. appreciate it. the president s former campaign chairman paul manafort. we ll dig into the mueller investigation. kasie d.c. back after this. find the remote yet? 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and that s why exxonmobil scientists think it s not small at all. energy lives here. president trump speaking about his former campaign chairman paul manafort on friday just hours before manafort was slapped with new charges from special counsel robert mueller. the new indictment claims fort and a russian associate attempted to contact and influence two witnesses against manafort between february and april. ken vogel, you ve been reporting on this latest indictment even before it was unsealed on friday. can you walk us through exactly what is going on here? and what are the chances there was some discussion that prosecutors wanted manafort behind bars and not under house arrest. there are a couple things behind it. that s certainly one. this idea they re looking for a way to put more pressure on him possibly by revoking his pretrial release and saying that he did so by working with this guy constantine kalemnik, an associate, in order to essentially coach who is this explain who this guy is. the other thing, the other piece of significance is this guy konstantin kilimnik. he worked with paul manafort in ukraine from 2005 through 2016 through the presidential election and he is assessed, as the mueller team used, assessed to have ties to russian intelligence. so, the significance of this, even if paul manafort does not end up having his pretrial release revoked and does not end up going to jail and even if constantine kilimnik charge ans and trial aside. right. they re saying this long-time associate of paul manafort has ties to russian intelligence. the big so, the right hand guy of donald trump s campaign chairman is potentially a russian agent. that s exactly right. and it comes at a time when manafort, manafort s lawyers, donald trump and his allies are making this case that the special counsel has extended far beyond his remit of investigating russian meddling into the presidential election by looking at manafort and other allies and what they did years ago. well, here is mueller saying, actually, these two things do kind of connect. right. we have a quote from your story here. quote, mr. manafort remained in contact with mr. kilmnik throughout the presidential campaign when he traveled to the united states to meet with manafort. the men also traded e-mails in which they appeared to discuss ways to use mr. manafort s position on the campaign for financial gain. evelyn farkas, how problematic is that? may i say i m not a journalist so i don t have to source all this. i already said months ago i suspect manafort is actually a russian agent because he s refusing to cave. and the only reason you would refuse to cave or one good reason would be that you actually are a russian agent and vladimir putin will get you and so maybe jail is a better alternative. better than being in a federal prison. based on this information he would not have been able to get a security clearance in a transition administration, much less in a regular trump administration. he shouldn t have been working for the campaign. jonathan swan, let s analyze what the president had to say just there and kind of in the context of he s issued several pardons recently, but he seems and frankly his defense there, saying he hasn t been charged with or convicted of anything yet. you could, in theory and he, for example, pardoned joe arpaio earlier in the process than he might have. certainly something he could potentially do and yet he isn t. well, i thought actually the most striking thing about the comments there was what he didn t say and he didn t rule it out. he has kept this open, this idea open. he has never said he s never closed it off. he s never definitively said he won t do this. the audience, all these people cooperating with mueller, you still have in your head maybe the big guy will pardon me in the end. i think that s actually the most significant thing. and manafort seems to be acting as though that might be a possibility, right, in holding out. i don t know because i don t have insight into how he s thinking off feeling or the motivations behind his behavior. so, i wouldn t want to speculate. ken vogel i can tell you he s increasingly isolated because there are a succession of people who flipped on him including his son-in-law, rick gates, his long-time deputy, these two other folks who were allegedly the two people he tried to tamper with. exactly. he and this guy constantine kilimnik essentially we want to get our stories straight. they went straight to mueller. these guys are trying to tamper with us. one of the guys allegedly told an fbi agent filed in the declaration manafort was trying to suborn perjury. this shows people turning on manafort and the increasing pressure that that is amounting to that is allowing mueller to wield against him. let s talk for a second about the broader investigation where they stand. the president tweeted as he was on his way all of the events of the past couple of days have sort of melded together so i m not sure if this tweet came when he was going to canada or singapore yeah, canada. i m heading to canada and the g7, then singapore and north korea. won t be talking about the russian witch hunt hoax for a while. that lasted for 20 minutes, right? i think he tweeted like half an hour later witch hunt or something. certainly yes, possible. not likely. i think this week we had i think it was this week, every week blurs into one. there was this truly bizar 48-hour news cycle which i called the debate club news cycle. and nothing actually happened. there was no new event. there was at the end of it there was the manafort, the new claim against manafort. but nothing actually happened. instead we were spending all our time with constitutional law experts debating whether it was possible for a president to pardon himself, whether the president could commit obstruction of justice. parsing that llc opinion, counsel opinion. this is the storm rudy giuliani is whipping up. he s not doing any substantive legal work. it s the husband and wife team doing the work. rudy is on tv busy really actually doing what the main objective is which is to make this a red and bluish yu. that s the whole ball game. it s when mueller puts out his report, absent some unforeseen scandal that we don t know about that is just, you know, impeachable on its face, absent that, they are trying to make this a red and bluish yu. it s working. and it s working. republicans are rallying around trump. that s what happens, it s excellent for trump, fantastic for trub. one thing in this debate club intriguing me, they re using the bill clinton strategy around impeachment. they want to have that fight where it could potentially become problematic is in the mid terms if democrats take both the house and the senate and you probably don t want to have the impeachment fight any more for donald trump. but additionally, there are polls that show even republicans want the mueller investigation to continue. certainly at the elite level, republican policy makers, members of congress do. and so it s yet another place where you have sort of the tension between trump and his party that could play itself out. maybe not in 2018, but certainly if democrats take the house and maybe the senate, between 2018 and the 2020 reelect. there are many, many more risks for this president that exist right now. coming up we re going to dig into a brand-new report about west wing aides looking at the exits. plus, it was an amazing week for d.c. sports fans, and an even more amazing week for the players. where and with whom the stanley cup champions celebrated their historic win. kasie d.c. back after this. y, who s already won three cars, two motorcycles, a boat, and an r.v. i would not want to pay that insurance bill. [ ding ] -oh, i have progressive, so i just bundled everything with my home insurance. saved me a ton of money. -love you, gary! -you don t have to buzz in. it s not a question, gary. on march 1, 1810 [ ding ] -frédéric chopin. -collapsing in 226 [ ding ] -the colossus of rhodes. -[ sighs ] louise dustmann [ ding ] -brahms lullaby, or wiegenlied. -when will it end? [ ding ] -not today, ron. -when will it end? [ ding ] you finished preparing overhim for college.rs, in 24 hours, you ll send him off thinking you ve done everything for his well-being. but meningitis b progresses quickly and can be fatal, sometimes within 24 hours. while meningitis b is uncommon, about 1 in 10 infected will die. like millions of others, your teen may not be vaccinated against meningitis b. meningitis b strikes quickly. be quick to talk to your teen s doctor about a meningitis b vaccine. hey blue. i brought you something. okay. we re getting out of here. you re welcome. run! holy! this is gonna be awesome. rated pg-13. welcome back to kasie d.c. we would be very much remiss if we did not mention the fact that the nation s capital is enjoying its first major sports championship since 1992. and it is safe to say that the celebration has been commensurate with the wait. here are the capitals and the stanley cup at the nationals game yesterday. a rare moment in the past few days which the cup did not appear to be filled with some sort of alcoholic beverage. no one was doing a keg stand out of it at that point. also take a look at this photo, ivanka trump and jared kushner were reportedly out to eat last night in georgetown when ovechkin strolled in with some teammates. however, it is still unclear which party that is shown here requested this particular picture. i will say i have been enjoying this, it s the first time since i ve lived in d.c. for over ten years, we ve never had a sports championship. i ve been impressed with the crowds in the street. they seem to be more careful. as a philadelphia sports fan, super bowl vicry to this, you have to wonder if maybe people are being a little more tame because so many people here have security clearances and don t want to get caught on video doing something outrageous. that s very true. coming up, john kelly reportedly called the white house, quote, a miserable place to work. that s next. ask your doctor about entyvio, the only biologic developed and approved just for uc and crohn s. entyvio works at the site of inflammation in the gi tract and is clinically proven to help many patients achieve both symptom relief and remission. infusion and serious allergic reactions can happen during or after treatment. entyvio may increase risk of infection, which can be serious. pml, a rare, serious, potentially fatal brain infection caused by a virus may be possible. this condition has not been reported with entyvio. tell your doctor if you have an infection, experience frequent infections or have flu-like symptoms or sores. liver problems can occur with entyvio. if your uc or crohn s treatment isn t working for you, ask your gastroenterologist about entyvio. entyvio. relief and remission within reach. when this guy got a flat tire in the middle of the night, so he got home safe. yeah, my dad says our insurance doesn t have that. what?! you can leave worry behind when liberty stands with you™. liberty mutual insurance. senators the white house is, quote, a miserable place to work. a potential turnover doesn t seem to worry the president according to those close to him. jonathan swann, that s quite a thing to say about the white house, that it s a miserable place to work. you and i have had this conversation about john kelly on the set more times than i can remember, but is he on his way out? he has been complaining for months back to last year. i mean, he has threatened to quit on a number of occasions, trump said you never told me she was a george w. bush appointee, and he threatened to quit and has a number of times, and he has resigned to the fact that the job he thought he could do he cannot do, and he is trying to control what he can, and he has goods and bad days and people keep speculating on the end days, and it s like the mcmaster situation, it s how long can this be sustainable. the inevitable. it drags on. way off into the future. and finding the leakers has turned toxic. yeah, there are people that are planting false stories in the white house rumor mill to see if they leak to different media outlets to trace where the leak is coming from, and this was a technique used by karl rove in the george bush white house and was effective, and there are so many leaks coming from some different portions of it it would be tough to trace any given leak. and scott pruitt, president trump has dismissed called to fire pruitt over the misuse of his thoertd and the new ethics questi questions surrounding him. the two speak frequently and the president enjoys discussing his negative view of jeff sessions, the attorney general, with the embattled epa leader. jonathan swann, is this why scott pruitt still has a job? seems like one of the reasons, which is amusing as well. i have to tell you, this is from the this is the body lotion from the ritz. that smells so good. i googled it once. yeah, he drove around to multiple rit who among us? we have seen several cabinet officials who have been fired for far less egregious instances of mismanagement, and yet pruitt remains part of it, and they have this repoor, and part of it is republican donors love this guy. just because of the policies themselves. can i say something, though? business people must be watching this like oh, my god, management 101. you don t basically talk trash to another vice president in your company if you are the svp or ceo, and you are pitting one person against another? i am stuck back to pruitt specifically, i am stuck on he wanted a use mattress from the trump hotel what do you want me to say? a comment? that s weird, man. the condo he was renting from a lobbyist, maybe it was insufficiently sa insufficiently soft or too firm, and he had a staffer to try and dispatch to try and arrange this. i can t even. truly weird. thank you both. thank you for your conutions toght. when we continue, the latest from singapore where president trump and kim jong-un are preparing to meet for the historic summit. and then senator blumenthal will join us, and then the quirks of the vice president see. we re back after this. until. we lost it. today, we re renewing our commitment to you. fixing what went wrong. and ending product sales goals for branch bankers. so we can focus on your satisfaction. it s a new day at wells fargo. but it s a lot like our first day. wells fargo. established 1852. re-established 2018. and the nx hybridhe 2018 lexus nx with a class-leading 31 mpg combined estimate. lease the 2018 nx 300 for $339 a month for 36 months. experience amazing at your lexus dealer. the full value of your new car? 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ukraine intractable, syria, extend the new star treaty for five years that s going to expire in 2021 as a result of these two presidents coming together? yeah. can they agree for no nuclear proliferation and put pressure on north korea and also put pressure on iran? is that possible? i think so. paul: okay. let s talk about the domestic politics here because you know to have an effective foreign policy, you need domestic support. and the way the president handled that press conference has really hurt him in terms of his ability, i think, to maneuver inside congress and have the support he needs. why did he get such at odds with the intelligence community judgment about 2016, when he really didn t need to? yeah, i mean, listen, monday was a disaster. i think it was a low point of his presidency, to be sure. i don t get it to be frank, paul. i mean, i know that they put a president? you know, there s a lot of misunderstanding about this. in talking to the people around the president, who i know, the president drives foreign policy and national security, make no mistake about it. paul: correct. and listen, i think this president i mean despite this week of criticism, he s the toughest guy on russia since ronald reagan, and the facts are on the table. look, the trump defense buildup comparable to the reagan buildup. it has to last a few more years to be sure. increasing the defense budgets in nato. we have deployed additional troops on the eastern border on the russian border. okay? not to the degree we need, but to be sure, putin is paying attention to all those three things. fourth, what we ve done in ukraine in terms of anti-tank weapons. and of course we ve responded twice to assad s chemical attack, and that s his ally. we re pushing back on iranians, and that s his ally. putin is paying attention to that. he s paying less attention to the rhetoric that goes on here. paul: you mentioned nato. let s listen to the president to answer a question from tucker carlson on montenegro. membership in nato obligates the members to defend any other member that s attacked. let s say montenegro is attacked, why should my son go there to defend it? i understand what you are saying. montenegro is a tiny country with very strong people, very aggressive people, and they may get aggressive, and congratulations you are in world war iii. paul: deterrence is the core function of nato or any alliance like this. does a comment like that suggest some doubt about whether or not we re willing to commit to that level of deterrence? yeah, absolutely. i mean, one of putin s major objectives certainly he resents the fact that russia strategic buffer from world war ii to the president is gone and that strategic buffer was eastern europe. and they had an agreement in the 90s that, you know, these countries would not become a part of nato, but they ran towards nato because they feared the intimidation and the coercion of russia. that s what montenegro is all about. they want to get underneath the tent and get some level of protection. that comment there obviously denigrates the whole concept of what this is about. i think that eventually will likely probably come in because of the same reason all the other eastern europeans are in there. paul: right. the president will support that, and they will be part of article v collective defense fight for one on behalf of the whole collective operation of nato. paul: if you are putin, you look at that and say, maybe just a tad little bit no doubt about that. i think he looks at merkel to be quite frank about it. there s guys like me sitting around putin and saying to him, if we took the three baltic capitals, would merkel really commit her infantry? paul: that s exactly that s a question. paul: it is a question. it is an important one. still ahead, republicans are under pressure to stand up to russia following the president s inconsistent statements this week. what congress can do to contain putin and maybe president trump, when we come back. 2018 is around the corner. our job is to ensure what happened in 16 doesn t happen again. i believe it will if we don t act. what do you have there? p3 it s meat, cheese and nuts. i keep my protein interesting. oh yea, me too. i have cheese and uh these herbs. p3 snacks. the more interesting way to get your protein. gathered here are the world s finest insurance experts. rodney mastermind of discounts like safe driver, paperless. the list goes on. how about a discount for long lists? gold. mara, you save our customers hundreds for switching columnist, editorial board member, and columnist and manhattan institute senior fellow. mary, i recall clearly last week you said the summit with putin was a bad idea. has the week made you change your mind about that? no, it hasn t at all. i think it is safe to say this was not a highlight of the trump presidency. now, as to what congress can do, they are a little limited of course because the executive branch is the one that sets foreign policy, but we have seen congress impose some pretty significant sanctions on russia, most notably after the invasion of ukraine and they could do so again. paul: but how much damage here? before we get a little more on congress, how much damage here do you think this has done after the full week? he reversed himself and second invitation to putin. how much damage has he done to his presidency? i m not a chicken little paul i don t think the world is going to end because of one disastrous press conference. however, trump did take a hit. i think he looked subservient to putin, i don t use that word lightly. and i think what he s done is unified congress around the idea of cracking down on putin and he s raised concerns among the allies too. let s not forget about them. they rely on us in large part for leadership, whether it s in the baltics or in eastern europe or nato as general jack keane just talked about. and i think the prestige took quite a big hit this week. paul: jason? i think they have spent the week trying to clean up this mess. that gives you some idea of how much damage they think was done this week. hurting relations not only with the intelligence community, but also with the european union and nato and also domestically. mary is right. trump supporters like the fact that he doesn t back down. he plows ahead. he doesn t apologize. here he was standing next to vladimir putin, had the chance to tell him we know what you did, don t do it again and trump went wobbly. and i think that he hurt himself domestically as a result of that. paul: bill, what about this disagreements we re hearing about between some of the intelligence officials and the white house? particularly dan coats, the director of national intelligence. he was seemed in an interview to be stunned by the news that the president has issued an invitation for putin to come in the fall, and issued a statement after the summit defending the intelligence community. right, well, look, we all know that the russians meddled. everyone knows that. i think even president trump knows it because he walked back his remarks earlier. look, he s still the president. and i think the storm will pass, probably because another storm will come up in its place. [laughter] but i would like to see there are interesting ideas out there. first of all, we know from this that the sanctions really bite, right? we know that the russians particularly vladimir putin really hate those sanctions. i think the actions this week will make it much harder to lift those sanctions, which is a good thing. and there are other interesting ideas. the washington post had a story saying we ought to move our troops from germany to poland. to me that would be an incredible step forward. paul: speaking of congress, 98 to nothing vote this week by the senate warning the president not to take up putin s request to have to come and have russian prosecutors interview american officials who might know something about bill browder who is one of the authors of the act, a sanctions bill that passed in 2012 and has sanctioned i think about 51 russians. yeah, putin is trying out the classic cold war tactics, paul, where he offers something in return for something that he shouldn t have. president trump of course wants to question the people who were hacking into the dnc servers paul: last week. right, in return putin says oh yeah let me question these 12 americans that i think have committed crimes against russia. and trump fell for it unfortunately. now paul: he stepped back from it. because of that backlash from congress, he stepped back. that s a good thing. that also shows that checks and balances in the american system work. but the very idea that the white house spokesperson sarah huckabee sanders didn t immediately shut that down, that putin request, when she was asked about it this week, to me shows a fundamental lack of communication within the administration and a lack of understanding of putin s method and his tactics. it also shows an inability of trump to distinguish two things here, which is russian meddling and collusion. he needs to say over and over again yes, we know russia meddled. they better not do it again. my administration had nothing to do with it. paul: they are separate issues. they are separate issues. he continues to conflate them and his political opponents have no problem with that. why does he keep doing that? i think that s all he s thinking is collusion and he s not distinguishing between the two. paul: he s thinking it undermines the legitimacy on the election. you just make the distinction. he s giving ammunition, bill, to his opponents. what do you think of the second summit? good idea? no, i think it is a bad idea. i agree with jason. look, i think a lot of what has led donald trump to say certain things on russia is he doesn t want to give his enemies any quarter and that means saying some dumb things and setting off this kind of storm. that said, i think that again a lot of this is atmospheric. we all get distracted about it. the president like many presidents gets distracted by the idea that having a one-on-one relationship with some dictator is going to improve the situation. that s a perennial problem. and i think the risks here when you don t have something that you want specifically from them shows what can happen. look, with kim, at least we know what we want to do. we want a denuclearized peninsula. i don t think it s a good idea unless you are going to get something that you really want out of it and you know that beforehand. paul: all right. thank you all. still ahead a vote in the house this week on a g.o.p. resolution supporting i.c.e. calls from those on the left to abolish the immigration agency. a look at how the issue will play in november. when we come back. motorcycle revving motorcycle revving motorcycle revving motorcycle revving no matter who rides point, there are over 10,000 allstate agents riding sweep. and just like tyrone taylor, they know what it takes to help keep you protected. are you in good hands? if his denture can cope with. a steak. luckily for him, he uses super poligrip. it helps give him 65% more chewing power. leaving brad to dig in and enjoy. super poligrip. are you ready to take your then you need xfinity xfi.? a more powerful way to stay connected. it gives you super fast speeds for all your devices, provides the most wifi coverage for your home, and lets you control your network with the xfi app. it s the ultimate wifi experience. xfinity xfi, simple, easy, awesome. paul: the house on wednesday approved a republican resolution supporting u.s. immigrations and customs enforcement as republican leaders sought to put democrats on record over calls to abolish the agency. some on the left are attacking i.c.e. amid the outcry over families separations at the borders. in what is shaping up to be a defining issue in the november election. president trump seized on the issue this week tweeting the democrats have a death wish in more ways than one. they actually want to abolish i.c.e. this should cost them heavily in the midterms. we re back with bill, mary and jason. jason, what do you make of the house vote on i.c.e. this week? well, it was a bit of show there. but i think it is reflective of the country on this issue frankly, much more than these progressive democrats are calling for the abolition of i.c.e. i think majority of americans want the border better patrolled, paul, not eliminate. this idea that people just want to give up on border security is nonsense. it is also strange given as you mentioned there we ve had this child separation issue. paul: right. a vast majority of americans have a problem with that. the democrats had a good issue there. why change the subject to abolishing i.c.e.? it doesn t make much sense. paul: yeah, bill, it seems to me that both sides here think that immigration is going to work for them in november. democrats think they can make hey with the fact that daca and the dreamers haven t been legalized and the family separation. republicans think i.c.e. and the abolition of i.c.e. is an issue for them. who gets the upper hand here? well, i think for the last decade and a half or so, the issue has worked for the democrats. and i think there s a lot of suspicion that president obama for example as a senator and as president preferred to have the issue, in other words, accusing republicans of being racist and so forth than to have a resolution. i thought earlier this year that the failure to get something done on dreamers, which is sort of the easiest part of the equation because they were brought here by others. they didn t, you know, come themselves. paul: right. was something easier, basically a border wall for dreamers. i thought that might hurt the republicans. but it looks like the democrats are bent on shooting themselves in the foot. the abolish i.c.e. thing comes across as we want lawlessness. i mean, these are the same people pushing sanctuary cities and so forth. and i m amazed at how they are taking an issue and making themselves as unattractive as they can be to the american people. paul: immigration seems to me works for the democrats when it is about opportunity and fairness. and it works for the republicans when it s about security. absolutely. paul: abolishing i.c.e. mary turns it into a security issue. i think that s right, paul. the greater tragedy here is that there was a deal to be done on immigration reform. border security in exchange for legalizing the dreamers, and to bill s point just now, the democrats wanted immigration as an issue under obama. they didn t want a solution. and i think republicans unfortunately are using the same tactic when it comes to i.c.e. they want an issue, not a solution. the democrats don t want to deal so you can t put all the blame on the republicans. but you know i think the dreamers here will suffer. paul: this is a developing trend among democrats, jason. you ve got gillibrand, warren, sanders, three senators all whom want to run for president, all taking the abolish i.c.e. position. is this going to divide the democrats going forward? i think it will divide the democrats, especially those who think we re losing white blue-collar workers. i don t know how an issue like eliminating i.c.e. helps attract those. but it s how progressives have really taken over the party, whether it s $15 minimum wage, a single payer healthcare, these used to be fringe issues held by progressives. now they have entered the mainstream democratic thinking. paul: i think you will see a lot of democrats not adopt abolish i.c.e. i think they will just drop it and not talk about it. trump wants to talk about it all the time. that s how he wants to define this issue between now and november. i think that s why you saw 133 democrats vote present on this bill supporting i.c.e. and it s also why you saw some pennsylvania democrats, lamb, cartwright vote for the bill because they are in trump country and they realize that and would like to keep their office. paul: it also accentuates the issue a little bit of crime. you ve got ms-13 which ravages some neighborhoods we know here in new york state and elsewhere. and nobody wants that. democrat or republican. but that i.c.e. is fighting that group. i think it goes back to your point. it s not just it s lawlessness, and if lawlessness becomes a defining part of the issue, the republicans will gain. and they won t back they will prefer to keep this as live as an issue. paul: it is a shame because both sides are in their respective camps and we can t seem to get anything done ever on immigration. when we come back, from abolishing i.c.e. to single payer healthcare, a look at the democrats left turn and the growing strength of progressives within the party. karl rove on what it means for the midterms, next. when i ts it s so hard to believe but it s all coming back me. baby, baby, baby. all you can eat is back, baby. applebee s. and when youod sugar is a replace one meal. choices. .or snack a day with glucerna. .made with carbsteady. .to help minimize blood sugar spikes. .you can really feel it. now with 30% less carbs and sugars. glucerna. while we re honored, we don t one do it for the awards, on. we do it for you. we have low fares on over 4,000 daily flights on average to 100 destinations, just so we re ready to go when you are. everything we do is done with you in mind. but, hey, if they want to reward us for rewarding you, we won t stop them. putting people first. that s transfarency. something important. it s not going to be easy. quicksilver earns you unlimited 1.5% cash back on every purchase, everywhere. actually, that s super easy. my bad. just for a shot. but why go back there when you can stay homefice that s super easy. with neulasta onpro? 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well, increasingly divided because you just touched on a couple of them. we ve seen this throughout the primary season, that in cases of races where the democrats had a shot to win, they threw it away by going hard left. the key example to me was nebraska too. this is the most democratic part of nebraska. it is part of the state that obama carried, that hilary clinton did well in. they had a democratic congressman until recently. he was trying to get the democrat nod back again. and he d have a shot in the general election. but the democrats instead went hard left with a woman named kara eastman who is in favor of medicare for all, free college, guaranteed job with a guaranteed paycheck, and in a midwest district like that, that is sane and sensible, even a lot of democrats are going to find that too much to go for. paul: but you know, karl, look, ocasio cortez it seems to me has a point at least on one thing, and that is enthusiasm and energy and passion. and if you stand for something, you re going to motivate people to vote. in 2010, as you know, the response from republicans to president obama was driven in part by that kind of passion. voters know that trump is going to have the veto authority. but the democrats may be motivated enough to put a check on that and some of these issues may not matter as much. well, maybe, but look, she comes from a very liberal district that is not representative of the country. when she goes out to campaign around the country, she s going to raise questions that local candidates are going to have to raise. in dallas, texas, in the 32nd congressional district, if she comes in and campaigns for collin allred, people will ask him do you agree with her that israel is conducting an illegal occupation of palestine? are you in favor of free jobs, free healthcare, free college? are you in favor of that kind of an agenda? are you a democratic socialist? some of that stuff will work well if you are in, you know, san francisco, but to win the house, the democrats will have to win a lot of seats in places like pennsylvania, michigan, illinois and texas and the parts of california that don t like how they voted in the bay area. paul: karl, then what you do is you don t invite cortez or warren in those districts you invite bill clinton or somebody who is more popular in those districts. sure, but look this is a sentiment that is grabbing that is gaining strength inside the democratic party. here in texas they nominated a rock star named robert francis for the u.s. senate against ted cruz. i think it is hilarious we have the robert francis running and we have the cruz running as ted. but he came out this week in favor of impeaching donald trump. it may be popular in the confines of the democratic party but it won t be popular in a red state like texas. take pennsylvania, this is a district held by a republican, won by hilary clinton, they nominate the most left wing guy running in the primary turns out to contributed $300,000 to organizations that support disinvestment in israel and it is the district has the 38th highest percentage of concentration of jewish voters of any district in the country. so yeah, look, it matters that you stand for something. but if what you stand for something is hard left politics, and you re running in sort of middle america, then the democratic party is not going to win as many seats as it might otherwise have won. paul: one of the things we have seen over the last 12 months is the democrats have outperformed what you would have had expectations for voter turnout. that s generated by enthusiasm. a lot of is we saw this in virginia in particular is antitrump enthusiasm. why isn t the best democratic argument were to be simply something like this, we are going to put a check on president trump. you want checks and balances? the republicans aren t doing it. we re going to put the check on trump. that would be a good strategy, but instead they ve got for the people and increasing numbers of their candidates are defining their agenda by adopting left wing positions, medicare for all, free college, guaranteed jobs and so forth. but you re right. if they ran a sort of centrist, you know, we re going to work together, republicans and democrats to achieve good things for the country, we re relatively moderate centrist liberal democrats, we re not nuts calling for impeachment. we re not calling for the overthrow of the government. they could win a lot of seats, but that s not the kind of candidates they are nominating in some critical races. but you re right, if they were smart, that s what they would do. take, for example, your old stomping grounds, wisconsin, a left winger running in wisconsin won. it turns out to not only be left wing but turns out to be a deadbeat who couldn t either pay back loans to his former wife or pay his child support payments, but he sounded good to democrats in that district because he was the most left wing. paul: all right, karl, we will see how this evolves in the coming months. thanks for coming in. still ahead, president trump doubling down on auto tariff threats, despite growing opposition from lawmakers and industry leaders. so can eu officials work out a deal with the administration when they come to washington next week? 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[laughs] ah. ahem. show me the carfax. start your used car search and get free carfax reports at the all-new carfax.com. they are going to be coming on july 25th to negotiate with us. we said if we don t negotiate something fair, then we have tremendous retribution, which we don t want to use, but we have tremendous powers. we have to. including cars. paul: that was president trump wednesday promising tremendous retribution if his meeting with the european union officials next week doesn t result in what he considers fairer trade deals. the president is scheduled to sit down wednesday with european commission president amid administration threats to slap tariffs on imported cars and auto parts. but resistance to the tariffs is growing work a co growing, with a coalition of foreign and domestic companies, dealers and autopart makers, asking the president not to move forward with the penalties. a bipartisan group of nearly 150 lawmakers urging the commerce secretary to back away from the tariffs. we re back with bill, mary, and jason. so bill, there s a school of thought that says has said for sometime, the president s trade threats are really just a negotiating ploy, that he will back away at the end and it won t go ahead. i m increasingly of the belief that he really wants this kind of a tariff war, and he really wants to stick it to german automobiles. what do you think? i hope not. i mean, the problem with trade wars is there are a lot of innocent bystanders that get hurt. you don t always know those costs. i think what you see especially with the european union reaction is when you make these threats, they re more than willing to come back and do the same thing to us. you know, there s not a lot of quiet players. the chinese would probably prefer to work out a deal quietly with us. but you get into it with the european union, it is like a game of chicken with a truck bearing down on you. paul: jason, the germans, in particular, seem to be his target. he has an obsession i don t think that s too strong a word were german cars. with german cars. [laughter] paul: sounds like he s determined to do it. i think he is determined to do it. you have to take him at his word. he s campaigned on this and something he s determined to follow through on for better or worse, mostly for worse i think. particularly in states that helped elect him, paul. that s one of the things that s hard to figure out here, whether it s cars or aluminium or farm products. you have companies like alcoa, aluminium maker, their shares are tumbling because they import from canada. that s gotten more expensive. alcoa is based in pittsburgh. trump won pennsylvania. iowa farmers traveling over to china trying to preserve deals there that have been harmed due to the chinese trade war. trump won iowa. is this what those voters signed up for? paul: alcoa is a company that was supposed an american aluminium maker. it is the kind of company that trump said the tariffs would help. in the earnings call this week, you have them saying the tariffs are hurting. their earnings are down 15% or so. so i guess and you see this with the domestic companies and the foreign automakers who invest here. everybody really except for the united autoworkers which has i would say issued tepid support for the tariffs, but everybody else against it. can trump still move ahead in the face of that opposition? well, i think it depends on what happens to the stock market, paul. the one indicator that he watches very closely. look, the largest plant in the world is in spartanburg, south carolina, a district that trump won with more than 60%. now, we haven t seen the effects of these tariffs on the markets, but i think when that happens, trump is going to wake up. now, on the european side, my question is, do the europeans get it yet? because they didn t believe that trump would pull out of the paris climate change agreement. they didn t believe he was going to pull out of the iran deal. they didn t believe he was going to put tariffs on. so if i were sitting in brussels, i would be coming to washington with something to offer trump, whether it s a loosening of i don t know, agricultural tariffs. paul: no, that is not going to work. car tariffs it s got to be. it s got to be on automobiles, and it s got to be at a minimum it would seem to me essentially the same rate on tariffs, and i m not sure even that is going to work because the germans are going to say, you have a 20% tariff on trucks here. i don t know about that, paul. i think if the europeans came with a deal to trump and they could both stand up and proclaim victory and walk away paul: yeah, but it has to be on cars. i think both sides would be happy. paul: my point is it has to be on cars. it can t be farm products. one other point we re making is other countries seem willing to move on and make deals without us. japan and the eu have gotten together to cut deals without the u.s. we lose out economically in cases like that, but we also lose out in terms of influence in the region. there s much more at stake here than simply cars and tariffs. paul: bill, what about the danger here that this now becomes also a currency war? the president lashed out this week at the falling yuan and the falling euro because of the strong dollar. i don t think he understands that one of the reasons the dollar is so strong is because so much foreign capital coming here because of the tax reform and the deregulation and faster growth. it is a vote of confidence in his policies; right? got to know who your friends are. look, i think mary makes a good point when she pointed out about the bmw plants over here. i mean, today what is an american car? what is it is such a multifacetted thing. it reminds me for many years, for about 20 years, there was a dumping suit by brother typewriter japanese company building typewriters in america against smith corona, an american company building typewriters in asia. it just ended. it s just ridiculous. paul: i still have mine, bill, i have you know. i don t know where that was made, but very stylish portable typewriter. i took it on the road in asia. still ahead, google is slapped with a record fine as the european union accuses the tech giant of antitrust violations. what it means for google and its competitors, when we come back. 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(harmonica interrupts) everytime. geico. 15 minutes could save you 15% or more on car insurance. hi there.me! so, what do you look for in a vehicle? sleek designs. performance. dependability is top on my list. well then, here s some vehicles that deliver on that. woah! wow. oh jeez! that s our truck! it s our truck! and they re our cars! that s my chevy! chevy s the only brand to earn j.d. power dependability awards across cars, trucks and suvs three years in a row. awesome. i m proud. it s like a dynasty. it s impressive. operating system. andy kessler writes the inside view column for the wall street journal and he s founder of the silicon valley hedge fund velocity capital. andy, great to see you. thanks for coming in. what do you make of the eu s fine this week and the charges against google? well, the fine itself is irrelevant. you look at the numbers, 830 billion dollars market cap, 100 billion in cash, 13 billion in profits last year. that s not the problem. it is the concept of they are annoyed about 11 apps they installed including maps and search and assistance trying to say that s anticompetitive. but google, android, it is a platform. it is a platform for others to compete on. lyft versus uber and spotify versus pandora. it is a wonderful competitive environment and they compete against apple. bureaucrats are bureaucrats so they had to do something. paul: they say look, when they go to a handset maker and they say if you want to use android, you have to put these our apps, google maps, youtube, first. sure. paul: that s favoritism to google. well, yes, but you get the operating system for free rather than spending billions of dollars paul: develop your own, yeah. and samsung for example puts their own apps on there. users can hit delete and put their own apps on it. it is just like the pc business and the browser wars. in a sense it became obsolete almost at the time that microsoft got their hands slapped. paul: so you think they are looking through the rearview mirror here and technology will somehow make all of this irrelevant? yeah, i mean, phones have already peaked, right? i mean we re starting to look at what the next platform might be. but my issue is, if you re google, what do you do? they are going to appeal. they have appealed, that s fine. but you can t let the european commission of competition get away with it. if i was google, i would do the following. there s a billion plus android phones that ship every year. got to figure at least 100 million, probably multiple hundred millions ship into europe. you can shut them off but then you are hurting yourself. instead what i would do is i would say okay, let s create an activation fee, $50, 50 euros and not payable to google but payable to the eu. you would have to write a check or paul: so the individual user of the android phone would have to pay the fee. yes, don t even let them do it electronically. make them go to a bank or a post office. this thing would blow over in a week. there would be such an uproar and it would never happen. paul: people would blame the eu and not google. exactly. paul: are you sure? yes, it is just like the tariffs. if there s a tariff on my imported mercedes-benz, if i had to pay that money to the u.s. government rather than to the dealer i would go what do you mean i have to pay? paul: let me ask you another issue about google, market cap almost 900 billion, astonishing, is there a problem in your mind from antitrust point of view in the way they use algorithms to steer users to certain kinds of content? for example, their content and advertisers that they want to steer it to. sure, that was the other european fine they paid for steering people towards their shopping site. you know, it is better to have transparency, to have the algorithms so transparent that if you wanted to have your ad placed first, maybe you would pay more. it s always going to be an issue with platforms, but the more visibility there is and you don t see advertisers complaining. you see bureaucrats complaining. but you don t see advertisers complaining because they can get to users. the nice thing about google you know the effectiveness of your ad. if it doesn t work, you don t run it again. paul: i want to ask you as a market analyst, the big companies, the facebook, google, netflix, and apple have dominated the market. but you wrote an intriguing column this week saying that maybe the seeds of their decline are already planted. explain what you meant. well, on wall street, it is easy to buy a stock. i m going to buy the stock. it is going to be the next greatest thing but no one knows when to sell. i think you need an exit strategy. the day you buy it, you figure out what is going to go wrong eventually. you know, look at netflix. it blew up this week; right? the subscriber numbers were a million shy, and they took the stock down. when i look at the other ones some are more obvious than others. apple seeds of destruction or what we just talked about, is the phone market has kind of peaked. everyone has one. they don t wear out. similarly facebook, they have a problem in that you know they are at 2 point something billion users, doubled in five years. i don t think it is going to double again. they re not allowed in china. russia has competition for facebook. what happens as that growth rate kind of slows? investors get a little nervous and start running for the hills. paul: and that s what you ve got to look for as an investor. when is the turn? you look for it the day you invest. and then you keep an eye on it. say what are the signs that i m looking for? because stocks go up in euphoria; right? google, amazon, every day the stock goes up. what is going to go wrong? so that you can be ahead of everyone else. paul: read andy s column to tell you when to do that by the way. thanks for being here. we have to take one more break. when we come back, hits and misses of the week. :: schwab, again? index investing for that low? that s three times less than fidelity. .. schwab has lowered the cost of investing again. introducing the lowest cost index funds in the industry with no minimums. i bet they re calling about the schwab news. schwab. a modern approach to wealth management. .. 3 quarters of a hit to the republican senate for setting a record this week, 23 appellate court nominees confirmed, the most since george hw bush. on thursday they botched the nomination of ryan bounds in the ninth circuit for comp located reasons but a reminder with the brett kavanaugh confirmation this is a team sport when you have 50-49 majority you all got to show up. i m giving a miss to turkey for its continued detention of american pastor andrew brunson who has been two years behind bars on trumped up charges. president erdogan is against him and other american hostages but i m afraid they may have to exact more leverage to get results. if you have your own hit or miss tweet it to us, that is it for this we show, thanks to all of you for watching. see you right here. fox news alert, special counsel robert mueller s team reach researching out to an ongoing witness in his in best litigation investigation, with close ties to donald trump. welcome to a brand-new hour of america s news headquarters. new developments unfold, the president is responding to a new revelation, michael cohen secrecy recorded a conversation with donald trump where they talked about payments to a former playboy model who had an affair with the president. the fbi is in possession of that recording, donald trump saying, quote, inconceivable the government would break into a lawyer s office early in the morning. almost unheard of. more inconceivable that a lawyer would tape our client, totally unheard-of and perhaps illegal. the good news is your favorite president did nothing wrong. garrett tenney live in washington with more on it. reporter: the president slamming these developments but rudy giuliani suggesting this reporting helps the president. sources tell fox news in september 2016 michael cohen recorded a conversation with donald trump in which cohen suggested buying the rights to the story. a former playboy model, karen mcdougall, claimed she had an affair with mister trump in 2006. they claimed to do this to prevent those allegations from becoming public before the election. rudy giuliani says no payment was made and suggested to the wall street journal that this recording shows he wasn t trying to hide the payment because he was open to making the payment by check telling the paper, quote, it helps us rather than hurts us. you don t do any form of illegal tax or campaign-finance violation by check. separately special counsel robert mueller reaching out known to the manhattan madam as the investigation into russian election meddling and possible ties to the trump campaign. kristin davis was charged for running a high end prostitution ring in new york city. as tmc reported that special counsel s office is interested in davis because her close ties to long-term trump advisor roger stone, long a person of interest in that investigation. last night on cnn he believes mueller is on a fishing expedition for anything to use against him. while the special counsel s office she had been an associate of mine for ten years. someone i have great affection for. i am the godfather to her son. she is a single parent, she is now in the cosmetology business. mister mueller has had full access to my email and is well aware there is no evidence whatsoever. reporter: the special counsel is not commenting on the latest report. davis would be the latest in a long line of folks tied to roger stone. donald trump facing bipartisan backlash from lawmakers following his summit in helsinki with russian president vladimir putin but despite the criticism from some inside the beltway a new paul finds 60% of republicans approved of the president s performance. how will this payout in a midterm election year? let s bring in the political battle, a former advisor to the barack obama presidential campaign, kevin sheridan a former senior advisor to the romney ryan 2012 bid and former communications director, good to see you. how worried are you about a helsinki hangover in the midterm election? is there danger? there is honest in the party about it and you heard members of congress speak up and restate their positions on russia, that russia is a menace to our country that did middle in the election. there is no collusion necessarily with trump but that doesn t mean they aren t a problem. republicans spoke up. i don t think it will last through to november for the simple fact there are 10,000 news cycles between now and then. republicans are asking why is donald trump bringing vladimir putin to the white house? it is not clear what the goal of that meeting would be. maybe he has a second meeting and is much stronger with him in person. we will have to see. a lot of republican lawmakers on capitol hill do not like having michael cohen stuck in their face, asked about donald trump s performance in helsinki. is that your sense? i think it is. i agree with what kevin said. you have reciprocal views, 32% of americans approve, 68% don t approve of donald trump s handling of the putin summit, 60% of republicans approved, they looking from opposite and equal perspectives, a drop-down from the 80% or 90% support donald trump has had in the party. i suspect there are time delays. it is insidious, it is additive. trump has had two big issues that have hurt him, separation of families with relation to immigration and the vladimir putin summit. there needs to be something else in the economy. to your point the news cycles change so rapidly. it is possible helsinki might be a distant memory by november. democrats could play this better if they have a better message about the economy. they don t have a good argument what they are running for other than to be a check on donald trump which will be effective for some people but ultimately might not be enough. they are moving hard to the left. there establishment is devoid of any real argument so basically adopted this identity politics and the socialist emerging where all the energy is in the party. neither of those options are particularly appealing for voters and i don t think they are playing this as well as they could. a somewhat unpopular president but they are not popular either. what about the potential of trump putin summit 2.0 at the white house on donald trump s turf, could that barry the helsinki meeting if donald trump is tough for the second time? he has to have a better showing on the second meeting and i think he will. i think he learned his lesson, found where the line is and you have to stand up strong to vladimir putin. no matter what you think the unfair coverage of the press and questions about the election he conflates the two in his mind, they are two different things, russia did middle, russia is a threat to the united states and has been for twee 7 years. the republican party has a lot of goodwill on this issue. republicans are the stronger party against russia going back to the cold war. he will be stronger i think. your thoughts on vladimir putin donald trump 2.0 at the white house? we will see. we have the mueller investigation heating up, we will see what happens. trump has damaged himself. i don t agree the republicans have moved hard left, their wedding and reaction not necessarily, the issue with trump is most presidents since truman up to trump played within the 40 yard line. trump is in the end zone. we have an outlier president. we will see how that shows up in the polls. the economy will drive the messaging and local dynamics in terms of the midterms as we will see. a check and balance message by democrats is not enough to take the house. they need to make their own economic arguments, present their own economic leadership agenda. we have to leave it there, thank you for your time. dozens of groups holding a rally in los angeles demanding the city do more to protect asylum seekers and migrants as a federal judge says the trump administration is making, quote, great progress towards reuniting 2500 children separated from their parents at the southern border. evil criminal to do that to the children. people have a right to ask for asylum. jeff paul is live in los angeles with the latest. reporter: hundreds marching through the streets of downtown los angeles to bring attention to the fact that immigrant families separated from their kids, also concern around the thursday deadline that ordered those families to be reunited. we look at this video, this group taking to the streets and taking a two lanes of traffic, hoping people see and hear their message. and realized immigration system is broken. they are sending a message to those across the border illegally and are living in fear. we are here in an immigrant community, and immigrant city and we need to show people in los angeles and the united states and around the world that we support immigrants, welcome refugees and we want them here in our city and our country. reporter: as far as reunification a judge in san diego address those concerns during the court hearing friday. and said i m very impressed with the effort being made. it really does appear there has been great progress toward reunification and the process is working, is on track and on time. even if they were separated, reunified with their families on thursday, they believe the immigration system needs an overhaul. fox news alert. we are learning what went wrong with a tourist boat capsized and sunk in a missouri lake killing 17 people. last night hundreds gathered at a vigil in branson, missouri to remember those victims. you have wanted to feel like somebody cared about you. that is the biggest purpose for this, making sure people understand we are supporting them. share mac do you know if anyone on board was wearing a life vest? we know they weren t. the storm moved fast. ripples on the lake turned into waves that crashed over the bow of the ill-fated tour boat. 29 passengers in two crewmember s were told not to put on life vests. according to one survivor they were told they don t need them. this is where they are. don t worry about it. okay. when the cabin took over. i thought that at some point, grab the jacket now. tia coleman is from a family of 11 the last we 9 people. her husband and three children are all gone. the president of the company that owns the duck boat says a microburst descended on them. the winds were 60 miles an hour. the video shows those two amphibious boats getting battered and taking on water. one of them ultimately slipped. you don t see that in the video but 17 people including the driver of the boat were killed. that duck boat is still in 80 feet of water where it rolled after taking 40 feet of water. the ntsb and coast guard taking over the investigation and we expect in a couple hours to get an update from the ntsb. this gives you a sense how horrified those people are. a cease-fire has been reached between hamas and israel after violence erupted in israel. live report straight ahead. rising stars like alexandria ocasio-cortez resurging in a new wave of democratic socialism. what is exciting is the democratic party has an extraordinary candidate across the country. quicksilver earns you unlimited 1.5% cash back on every purchase, everywhere. actually, that s super easy. my bad. that s super easy. when heartburn hits. fight back fast with tums smoothies. it neutralizes stomach acid at the source. tum tum tum tum tums. smoothies. .and introducing new tums sugar-free. to deliver up to 7 hours of sleep support. number 1 sleep doctor recommended remfresh your nightly sleep companion. available in the natural sleep section at walmart. xfinity xfi, simple, easy, awesome. share mac hamas in gaza reach a cease-fire agreement with israel striking a number of hamas targets in gaza following the death of an israeli soldier near the border, 150 palestinians have been killed in protests at the border since march. ryan is live with the latest. an israeli tank fire into gaza earlier today but palestinians did not respond so this cease-fire remains in place but is already being tested clearly and this is the second cease-fire in less then a week. a precarious situation. what sparked the violence? the 150 deaths among palestinians for the last several months. in addition, the israeli soldier killed on friday by a palestinian soldier, the first to die in a low-level conflict between israelis and palestinians for the past four years in addition to that, increasing news of so-called flaming kites. palestinian militants sending kites into israel over the fence and attached incendiary devices. when they hit israeli soil they catch fire inspector brushfires. no one has gotten hurt in these fires but they caused a lot of economic problems. the israelis have responded by tightening the blockade on israel. until now, the israelis prepared to use military action in response to this. this has the un secretary-general concerns, issuing a statement a short while ago in which he said i call on hamas and other palestinian militants to cease the launching of rockets and incendiary kites along the fence and israel exercised restraint to keep from further inflaming the situation. israel and hamas have fought 3 wars in the last decade, the last one four years ago, the concern that the flareup that we had is frozen in a cease-fire could again blowup into a full-fledged war. mike: thanks very much. eboni: a number of democrats running for office reigniting talk of socialism within the democratic party. one of those young stars is socialist candidate alexandria ocasio-cortez of new york who rocketed to superstardom after knocking out the number one democrat in the house in a recent primary election. we have to have medicare for all. it doesn t stop here. the movement is the right thing to do and we will fight as long as it takes to get there. mike: jillian turner has more. reporter: 42 men and women running for office. we have a formal endorsement of democratic socialists of america according to the associated press, they span 20 states and include florida, hawaii, michigan and kansas, the latest development the trump presidency hit the 18 month mark democratic socialism is becoming an increasingly powerful force in democratic politics. new faces laying out the organization s priorities more forcefully than ever before. we want to be a nation that allows improved and expanded medicare for all. we are a nation that will not stop until every child is born with the opportunity to go to college or trade school free of cost and we will not rest until every person in this country is paid a living wage to lead a dignified life. reporter: they are clear who their friends and enemies are. we say to trump instead of showing us your strength by tearing children from their families, where was your strength in standing up to vladimir putin in russia? reporter: the organization and its political ideology operated on the fringes of the liberal movement s farthest left flank but now they have 45,000 dues paying members and making inroads into states and communities traditionally carried by the gop. they say the people of kansas don t want those things. they told me i would not be welcome. but you have proven them wrong. reporter: this week ocasio-cortez and bernie sanders hit the campaign trail and today she is in missouri campaigning. eboni: we are going to bring in philip wegman, a writer for the washington examiner. thank you for joining us on a saturday. she beat joe crowley, a big time democrat in new york. in that jurisdiction, seems dianne feinstein is up against a real battle in california, so it looks like it might be effective. the question is does this work in middle america? karl rove had interesting thoughts on it. everything she says is going to be tested and candidates will be asked do you agree that israel has occupied palestine? she has started to say things and candidates will be asked do you agree with that? eboni: is she the new kingmaker of the democratic party? she is the queen of queens in new york but what we are watching to see whether her democratic socialism can take root outside of new york and in the midwest. you have alexandria ocasio-cortez and bernie sanders pushing for candidates in the midwest right now but kansas hasn t set a democratic congress in over a decade. this is ambitious, very aggressive and if it works it is going to send a 10,000 bold jolt right up the spines of both establishment parties because this movement will not be going away if they are successful. eboni: is it that much of a formula? alabama not known for sending democratic senators to the nation s capital, but doug jones is there. let s go with connor lamb in pennsylvania. many people didn t see that and they were a different kind of democrat then we see in alexandria. is a true all politics are local? when you look at alabama, those were circumstances with the roy moore situation and pennsylvania, there s an interesting parallel between the argument he made at the argument cortez is making. it shows an intellectual vacuum on the left because joe crowley was willing to repeat the same boilerplate talking points we hear from democrats all the time. instead cortez actually advanced a certain set of issues, not just sticking to an anti-trump shtick. this is alarming for democrats because while her very issue focused agenda works on the east coast, the question is whether or not it suffocates in the midwest and other states that are much more red and much more focused on the economy. kansas, difficult to organize a proletariat there when the economy is booming and unemployment is at 3.4%, well below the national average. eboni: how do you see claire mccaskill on embracing a running away from cortez? she is running away as quickly as possible. already state democrats have to be worried about this. joe manchin or joe donnelly in indiana are guys who their entire argument is they are middle-of-the-road democrats willing to work with the president when he is right and split with him when he is wrong. eboni: but to those red state democrats run the risk of getting primary like joe crowley? they are definitely the chosen sons for this november and this raised an interesting point. we are talking about what is happening in this current moment. alexandria ocasio-cortez represents not just politics for the next two years but for the next decade because the economy will not always be good and at moments like those, her appeal when it comes to democratic socialism is going to hit hard with young people and i don t think establishment republicans or democrats are prepared at all. eboni: when you are the change candidate that seems to work in your favor politically, hillary clinton, one of her downfalls was she seemed like the same, the establishment, in the vein of chuck schumer and nancy pelosi and joe crowley. i can see both sides of this but is it a risk that is worth taking for the democrats? reporter: it is a risk they are being forced to take. they saw what happened when the establishment tried to shut down bernie sanders during the democratic primary in 2016. it did not work well for them and there were a lot of dissatisfied voters. a lot of base voters. whether they like it or not they have to accept alexandria ocasio-cortez into their ranks but they were forced to leap before they looked at her policies and like karl rove said earlier a lot of red state democrats will be hit over the head because of her positions. eboni: great to see you, thank you. mike: an american pastor held in turkey for two years on charges of terrorism and espionage. how the trump administration is intensifying a diplomatic push to secure his freedom but how the united states is pressuring members of the un security council to make kim jong-il and give up his nuclear weapons. no one was under any illusion this was going to happen, it will take time to achieve this outcome. motorcycle revving motorcycle revving motorcycle revving no matter who rides point, there are over 10,000 allstate agents riding sweep. and just like tyrone taylor, they know what it takes to help keep you protected. are you in good hands? the united states sending a message to the united nations but north korea will not receive really from sanctions until kim jong-il and gives up his nuclear program and putting pressure on china and russia district reinforce sanctions. ambassador nikki haley and mike pompeo mike pompeo during a joint briefing at the un. we can to do one thing until we see north korea respond to their promise to denuclearize. the path ahead is not easy, it will take time but our hopes for a safer world for all of us in a brighter future for north korea remains our objective. eboni: a research fellow at the eurasia group foundation, good to see you. secretary of state mike pompeo trying to keep pressure on the north korean regime to keep the promises they made with a won t get sanctions relief. the impact? north korea response to one friend in that region, china. it is its lifeline. we need to keep a good cooperative relationship with china if we expect them to put ultimate pressure on north korea. the trade wars we are embarking on make that difficult but they have been reliable partner with the united states. mike: should us officials be concerned north korea is back to their pattern and making promises they never deliver on? don t think many people think kim jong un is a reliable consistent negotiator. no one will take him at his word. one of the things that has created a sense of urgency for kim jong un to get a nuclear record is the record of regime change in iraq, saddam hussein being pooled out of a hole, he sees other leaders like moammar qaddafi attacked by a mob in a drainage ditch. he doesn t want to become like them. he wants to hold onto power, and a nuclear weapon is the ultimate deterrent for having the united states try to tackle his own regime. america s history of preventive wars has backfired and created the situation we are in. mike: what about what nikki haley is doing in china and russia on the un security council, a problem the us has been dealing with for some time. china and russia are forms in the side when it comes to cooperating with issues like this. north korea in their region don t see the same threat the united states sees, but pompeo needs to be careful in his language. when he says north korea made promises to the world that is right, for all to see. but the rest of the world doesn t perceive this threat the way the united states does. we have to be realistic about that. mike: we talked about donald trump s visit with nato. share your thoughts about the trump visit. this will be in the boston globe tomorrow, thinking about whether nato and nato expansion happening over the years, to some extent created this sense is not just vladimir putin and his ilk that look at the united states and think we are being overaggressive. it is 18, 22, 25-year-old kids in russia we are alienating, the people who would be small the democrats in that country. i don t think nato is as consequential as ultranationalist parties that are springing up in nato countries, our wealthy european allies. that is a threat to the european unity and democracy. more than russia is at this moment. mike: the president s approach by getting nato countries to spend more on defense, isn t that making nato stronger? i think it will. this kind of burden sharing has been a policy of the united states owing back to the obama administration, trying to get allies to chip in more money as well, a different diplomatic strategy in doing that. they were not scolding publicly, this is what i, neck the bassoonist style where you have public displays of aggression and affection. it doesn t always end well because these political leaders, heads of state donald trump is meeting with have their own constituencies and if they are perceived as doing the us s bidding, doing this a little more surreptitiously behind closed doors. might be in the president s interests for sure. i have been to afghanistan and see nato troops alongside americans and some americans they don t do the same heavy lifting we did. they helped the united states after 9/11. does nato have value going forward? absolutely. the rationale for nato existing, keep america in, keep rush out, keep germany down, an obsolete mission but in terms of getting incentives for european countries, and corruption, that is a worthy thing, article 5 of nato, if you treat an attack on one country like an attack on everybody, the only time that was invoked was after 9/11. it has served the united states interests. there needs to be a critical reevaluation of the role for nato and what his rationale is in the post-cold war era. mike: a pleasure picking your brain. thank you for having me on. eboni: the search for a suspect in the murder of a police officer comes to a end in hawaii but officers are not able to make an arrest. supreme court nominee brett kavanaugh complete another step in his confirmation process as democrats deploy another method to stop his nomination. we talk to a former clerk for brett kavanaugh next. judge brett kavanaugh deserves the support of every member of the united states senate and should be confirmed to the supreme court of the united states. an energy company helping cars emit less. making cars lighter, it s a good place to start, advanced oils for those hard-working parts. fuels that go further so drivers pump less. improving efficiency is what we do best. energy lives here. 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( ) joni: think i d give up showing these guys how it s done? please. real people with active psoriatic arthritis are changing the way they fight it. they re moving forward with cosentyx. it s a different kind of targeted biologic. it s proven to help people find less joint pain and clearer skin. don t use if you are allergic to cosentyx. before starting cosentyx you should be checked for tuberculosis. an increased risk of infections and lowered ability to fight them may occur. tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms of an infection. or if you have received a vaccine, or plan to. if you have inflammatory bowel disease tell your doctor if symptoms develop or worsen. serious allergic reactions may occur. mitzi: with less joint pain, watch me. for less joint pain and clearer skin, ask your rheumatologist about cosentyx. a man suspected of coming down the police officer in hawaii during a shootout with law enforcement. after a 3-day search across the islands, shot and wounded during the shot out and the police officer following the traffic stop earlier this week. donald from calling for the release of an american pastor held in turkey on charges of terrorism and espionage, and faces 35 years in prison if found guilty. the child is one of many legal cases that raised tensions between the us and turkey. there has been enormous work by this administration to gain the release of pastor brunson. we are working on that case and every place in america has helped. eboni: lauren green has more. reporter: brunson was denied freedom again after another hearing, brunson was remanded behind bars in a turkish prison. translator: this case is at risk of turning into a legal shame on turkey s hands. reporter: the 50-year-old is charged with committing crimes on behalf of the terror group and espionage, facing 35 years in a turkish prison, lawmakers on both sides of the aisle call the case a sham saying the evangelical pastor is a political pond. i saw all accounts spelled out, nothing that would keep somebody in jail overnight in the us judicial system. reporter: the north carolina native who lived there for two decades was killed after a failed coup attempt. turkey alleges brunson had linked to a us-based email who they believe orchestrated the failed overthrow of president erdogan s government. the trump administration doubling down on efforts to bring back the pastor, donald trump talked to president erdogan by phone this week. this is train us turkish relations, lawmakers looking at possible sanctions. the fact they have pastor brunson and other americans imprisoned on charges that don t hold water calls into question our relationship so there are actions we can take in congress. i hope it won t be necessary. reporter: the next court date is scheduled for october. the state department hopes to work out an arrangement with turkey that will allow the christian pastor to be released before then. mike: we should a poll about reactions to the trump vladimir putin summit in finland, the 68% supporting donald trump s performance is among republicans, not the general population. we are sorry about that. the battle over the next supreme court justice heating up on capitol hill, brett kavanaugh handing in his questionnaire to lawmakers, why democrats are demanding more records about the nominee before his confirmation hearing. liberty mutual accident forgiveness means they won t hike your rates over one mistake. see, liberty mutual doesn t hold grudges. for drivers with accident forgiveness liberty mutual won t raise their rates because of their first accident. liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty keep it comin love. if you keep on eating, we ll keep it comin . all you can eat riblets and tenders at applebee s. now that s eatin good in the neighborhood. just so we re clear about what senator feinstein is talking about, expensive career from brett kavanaugh, for secretary george w. bush s white house and was part of the 2000 presidential election recount process and part of the kenneth starr bill clinton probe among other things. that is some of what she is referring to. 1 million documents, back in 2010, for nomination, 170,000 plus last year, neil gorsuch with 180,000 plus. what is your reaction why million documents? we have never seen a number anywhere close to this. there are more documents produced for brett kavanaugh than ever in history, and people in dc, chuck schumer, and senator grassley and mcconnell, 1 million documents or 2 million documents and that is the kind of thing politicians love to fight about. and what is already public is judge cavanagh s record on the second most important court in the country, opinion after opinion document after document shows his independence, evenhandedness and a brilliant legal mind at work. eboni: they are not looking for his opinions as you say accurately, those are made available. i am going to reframe this for us. let s go with this premise. if it is not a legitimate scope of who the judge really is from a legal standpoint, say it is a political tactic, some people are saying it. the you think that is wise of the democrats if it is their plan to delay the confirmation post the start of a session which is october 1st, democrats maybe don t want that. is that smart on their part? i m not a political expert but if you compare brett kavanaugh to alayna kagan, john roberts, he is in a different position they are because he has had 12 years on the second lowest court in the country, alayna kagan a brilliant attorney but never a judge before, john roberts a very smart attorney who had barely been a judge. we didn t know as much about john roberts and alana kagan but we know about judge cavanagh, 12 years, second most appointed. eboni: some democrats say we need to slow everything down with brett kavanaugh because he is a trump nominee and as we have seen with trump ron nominees in the news for federal judgeships, like ryan downs, was rescinded but tell me how you see brett kavanaugh versus another trump appointee. it is very different. brett kavanaugh has been confirmed by the senate in 2016 for his current judgeship. there should not be as many questions what kind of person this is and i also think when it comes to a new nominee to the court, whether it is ryan downs or alana kagan if they haven t been a judge before we look at their past and figure out what kind of judge they are going to be but with brett kavanaugh we know what kind of judge he will be, for 12 years already and 200 opinions show he is a fantastic judge, the most qualified nominee to the supreme court in a generation or two. eboni: it is no easy feat to be a judicial clerk. you have done it at the highest level. the supreme court and brett cavanagh. tell me what you observed, the type of judge we are talking about? you have a legal background. you will appreciate seeing brett kavanaugh day in and day out, impeccable character who cares a lot what the law means, what the text means, history and precedent, does it without passion or prejudice. i know brett kavanaugh very well, he has been a mentor to me and every one of his 48 clerks. the more america learns about this great judge and this good man the more they will want to see him on the supreme court. eboni: thanks for joining us. that does it for us but the news continues at the top of the hour after this short break and i will see you back here at 7:00 eastern. what about him? let s do it. come on. this summer, add a new member to the family. at the mercedes-benz summer event. lease the glc300 for $429 a month at your local mercedes-benz dealer. mercedes-benz. the best or nothing. so let s promote our summer travel deal on choicehotels.com like this. surfs up. earn a $50 gift card when you stay just twice this summer. or, badda book. badda boom. book now at choicehotels.com
so what is the administration s plan to house the children or to reunite the families? my guest this morning republican senator james langford of oklahoma and independent senator angus king of maine who caucuses with the democrats. also, refugee crisis. why are so many people from central america coming to the united states? what are they fleeing? richard engel of nbc news has a report from his trip to el salvador. and political culture wars. white house press secretary sarah sanders is asked to leave a restaurant because she works for president trump. her father, mike huckabee tweets this picture with the caption, nancy pelosi introduces her campaign committee. is all of this the new normal? joining me for insight and analysis are nbc news capital news correspondent kasie hunt, and erick erickson editor of the resurgent. welcome to sunday. it s meet the press . the longest-running show in television history, this is meet the press with chuck families a year that are coming at the united states as a family unit. let s go to some specifics here because we haven t gotten a lot of answers from the trump administration, maybe you have gotten some of these answers. maybe they re fulfilling their duty to at least let you know what s going on in congress. do you know how many of these kids that have been separated how many of them are in shelters? how many of them are at detention facilities and how many of them are in foster care. do you know how many are a good idea with the categories. we know where every single child is. this is an issue that s gone out there in some of the other media and it s not been responsible with this with the assumption that the administration s lost track of that. so let me clarify a couple of things. these are career professionals that work with hhs and that work with dhs and customs and border patrol and i.c.e. these are not political appointees and they are career adult they came with so the child and adult they came with, we don t know if that is the parent. oftentimes the parent that is somewhere in the country oftentimes illegally, as well. they came with another relative and so to be able to connect the dots to see if we connect them with their parent that s here in the country and connect them going through procedures and whatever that may be and yes, we are able to connect them as well. the child, you identify the parent and the child, then what happens? is the parent brought to where the child is? are they sent to a separate facility? what can you tell us about that situation? it s a mixture. we are trying to work through the process to connect through the adult and some of the adults are given an ankle monitoring system and an ankle bracelet and they get a notice to appear hearing and as you put in your lead-in which was very well done. the flores settlement from 1997 says that you can only hold that job for 20 days and it takes about 35 days to get a hearing. what the court set up in 1997 was this conundrum. you have to either release them as they come as a family when they come into the country and hope they show up. to be very clear, only 2% of the family units that come to the united states illegally actually go through and actually had the notice to appear, finished up with the notice of removal and actually leave the country. so the family units that are coming here. 98% of them end up somewhere in the country, most of them illegally because they never actually leave after they re given the responsibility for an order of removal. your congressional fix here and let s get to the 20-day conundrum. the trump administration s asking for relief from the courts. they re probably not going to get it because the obama administration asked for the very same relief. hearing. are you in favor of using military bases to house these families? it appears dhs has made a request to the defense department. is that something you think is a good idea. president obama used basis for the minors and some were in my home state in oklahoma which by the way, members of congress from my state tried to visit those facilities that are in my state where president obama was holding the unaccompanied minors and they were turned away at the door and told they were not allowed in. this is something new the trump administration is doing blocking people out. no, it s the exact same policy hhs had before. we made an appointment and after we made an appointment we were able to go through the process. should that be the process or should there be more transparency? do you think the white house has been fully transparent with the american public about what they re trying to do here? i don t, actually. this has been one of the great frustrations. the white house has not been clear on how bad the flores settlement is. they tried to say it, say it and say it. you shouldn t allow just anyone to view a spot with children. this has been policy, if you re coming to the location where there s children, we need to know who you are and we have to know background and we can t trust that you have an i.d. and if you do that you can get in as a member of congress just like president obama had the children at a military base as well. my final question is whether the president is creating more problems or making it harder to solve by the rhetoric he s using. this is how he s described people coming across the border just this week, senator. take a listen. they could be murderers and thieves. they endanger all of our children. millions of people flowing up and just overtaking the country. they re human traffickers, they re coyotes. we re getting some real beauties. we want people in our country based on merit. not based on a draw where other countries put their absolute worse in a bin and they start drawing people. do you believe that rhetoric demonizes immigrants and makes your job harder? it does, actually, but the challenge of it is there is a percentage where the president is absolutely correct on that. what s the percentage? the percentage is pretty small. it is. it is pretty small. to do two for two go ahead, sorry. i would prefer the president would say the folks are coming for check reasons they want to be flee into an area where they have greater economic opportunities. every family wants to be able to see that for their family, but there are also some individuals that are there. on average, every day dhs stops or interdicts ten people that are on the terror watch list trying to come into the country. so i have a real concern that we re demonizing law enforcement folks that really are trying to be able to do their job because there are very real threats, but the vast majority of individuals are coming for economic reasons and they re coming from central america and they re not fleeing to costa rica, belize or ecuador who have great asylum laws. they re coming to the united states because they want the economic opportunities and not just asylum and they re trying to come for economic gains and i don t blame them for that, but to tell you the truth, 1.1 million people a year become citizens legally and this can be done legally, but the challenge is for those individuals that s a much smaller number that are doing it illegally, how do you process that? senator langford, i m going to leave it there. thank you for coming on and sharing your views. much appreciate it. thank you. joining me from brunswick, maine, is independent. i want a perspective from the other side of the aisle. good to be with you, chuck. are we misnamed this? is this a refugee crisis more than it is a migrant or immigration crisis? think it is. i think that s exactly right. it s more of an asylum and refugee. it s important to make distinctions. these are almost entirely people coming from central america and not mexico, particularly honduras, el salvador and guatemala, and they re fleeing violence and that s one of the reasons that this deterrent may not work, if you re looking down the barrel of a gun in your home community, whatever your chances are to get to a free country, you re going to take it in order to save your family s life. so if that really is what we re talking about here and this is different from, very different from the waves of illegal immigrants coming across the border 15, 20 years ago, mostly from mexico, simply looking for jobs. mexican migration has diminished enormously. if it is if you believe it should be treated more as a refugee crisis. for instance, how we handled the cubans in the 50s and the 60s and vietnamese in the 70s. how has the approximately see changed does the government intervention, should it be different if it s a refugee crisis? well, yeah, because if you re crossing the border illegally with no claim of asylum or refugee status, then that s a crime and we have a process for deportation. people have people coming to claim asylum are not illegal immigrants and under the law they have a right to establish their claim of asylum that are in legitimate fear for their life and they re fleeing persecution in their country and that applies to people from other parts of the world, but you have that right and the problem is james langford mentioned this. we don t have enough judges and there s a bureaucratic backlog to get adjudicated. what do you do with the people in the interim and the administration made a terrible choice of separating children from their parents and now they re saying well, we ll keep them together and we ll keep them together in detention. i don t think that s a necessary choice either. there s a lot of data that there are alternatives to detention that can still ensure that people show up for their court hearing which by the way are a lot cheaper for the taxpayers. very quickly on this senator langford, he s leaving to fix the flores amendment and you heard a lot of ways to do that, defund it completely and make it something and the administration can t do it and extend it to 60 days rather than 20 days. what do you favor and i know a bill with senator feinstein, but there s no republican support, and i assume it s a bipartisan deal. are there things that you can support? well, there are a number of proposals kicking around and i was in a meeting in susan collins office and it was very interesting sitting next to dianne feinstein and ted cruz. ted cruz and dianne both have a bill. the opportunity to vote for a feinstein/cruz bill. they re talking about not separating and talking about some alternatives and this is where the discussion is, does it have to be detention? i don t like the defunding idea and that s essentially saying, you know, the courts, we re not going to listen to you. i don t think that makes sense, but i think some additional time may be true, but i want to talk about how do we deal with these people? the other thing, chuck, we ve got to talk about is what s going on in these countries and why is this surge coming toward us. right. in fact, before the program this morning james and i were talking about going to central america. he s been there a couple of times. right. and trying to figure out what can we do to stabilize those regimes so people don t feel they have to run for their lives to america. i m curious, considering what happened in 2014 when the obama administration was tackling essentially the same surge of folks coming from central america. the obama administration didn t exactly welcome those folks with open arms either. the goal was, while they didn t separate, the goal was to get them back to the home country as quickly as possible. was that a mistake in hindsight? i think they were overwhelmed. if you go back and read about that period, and i went with a couple of other senators to mcallen, texas, during that period to see how these kids were being treated. the difference between then and now, three years ago they were unaccompanied kids. what s happened this time is kids are coming with their families, with their parents and they re being separated and that s what i think caused this firestorm, but there clearly has to be a better way to deal with this, and i think there are alternatives to detention, more judges and more timely processing of these things because we re a nation of immigrants, number one, except for the african-americans who were brought here, against their will and the native american, but all the rest of us are immigrants and also asylum seekers. the pilgrims were escaping religious persecution. right. andrew sullivan argues this week, just give trump his wall. he used more colorful language than that and go get something for it if you re the democrats. give him his wall because maybe there will be more heart in the rest of these policies and the rest of this migrant crisis. are you there yet? give the president has wall and figure this out? ironically, chuck, we did that. mike grounds and i had an amendment and it was the one that got the most votes on the floor of the senate. we got 54 votes. it was in a sense daca for the wall, and the wall was fully funded. the democratic caucus voted, i think, 46 out of 48 member, and 49 members for it. that was a hard sell, but the white house itself torpedoed the bill. they threatened to veto and they sent out a scurrilous press release from dhs and we had the votes. we had probably 65, 67 votes. they killed it. they had the wall in their hand and they let it go because they wanted more and the question is they keep sort of raising the ante and saying you have to limit legal immigration. you ve got to change this. you ve got to change that and that s one of the problems is we never know what the goal line is. want to show you a movement growing on the democratic side of the aisle and a hash tag, abolish i.c.e. referring to the enforcement agency when it comes to immigration. listen to kamala harris said about the idea of abolishing i.c.e. i think there s no question that we have to critically re-examine i.c.e. and its role and the way it is being administered and we probably need to think about starting from scratch. what do you make of that? is i.c.e. the bigger problem here? i don t i don t know how you abolish an agency without abolishing the function and i think the function is necessary. as far as what she said about examining what they re doing, that s absolutely what we should do and it s our responsibility to provide oversight and ultimately there would have to be an agency. before i.c.e. there was ins and there was a way to enforce the immigration laws in the country, but taking a look at how they re doing it and how they re approaching it. the question we had we had a border patrol stop up here in maine a couple of weeks ago. is that constitutional? do we stop american citizens in the middle of a highway and ask for their papers? there are a lot of questions to be answered. i don t know if i say abolish. i don t think that makes a lot of sense, but i do think looking at it makes a hell of a lot of sense. senator angus king, independent senator from maine, thanks for coming on and sharing your views, sir. thanks, chuck. when we come back, more on what s behind the border crisis. you heard both senators refer to the issue in central america. nbc news chief foreign correspondent richard engel is back from el salvador, one of the countries where life is so desperate people are willing to risk everything, including child separation to get here. that s next. oh, you brought butch. yeah! (butch growls at man) he s looking at me right now, isn t he? yup. (butch barks at man) butch is like an old soul that just hates my guts. (laughs) (vo) you can never have too many faithful companions. that s why i got a subaru crosstrek. love is out there. find it in a subaru crosstrek. richard engel returned last night from a trip to el salvador where he reported why people are willing to risk this dangerous journey and family separation to come to the united states and richard joins me now from seaside, california, where we made him stop here to get on our show. richard, thanks very much. let me start with this. normally i m talking to you and you re in a war zone somewhere, maybe you re in syria, maybe you re in north africa or maybe somewhere in asia, but here you are in central america. does it feel like the war zones you cover when you cover the war? reporter: it felt very much like a war zone, a low-grade war zone and there were places in el salvador where you can t go, and where the police and government don t feel safe to go. we re talking about a population of 100,000 active gang members and when you have that many people with guns and when you have a government that doesn t feel in control of the capital city, then you re having a war zone dynamic. people we talked to said they re afraid to go out in the countryside. when they do they see gang members carrying their weapons openly. there are gang checkpoints stopping you, asking you where you re from and what affiliation you have and if they don t like your answers they will kill you and drop you in the street. we went to a prison and met very hard-core gang members and one of them bragged to us that he d killed 35 people just himself and when you have that number of dangerous people who feel that emboldened it is not surprising that people want to leave the country and seek different opportunities and don t want their children to get sucked into the gang life and have them become the next generation of killers or victims. in some ways you ve spent way too much time in syria for us at nbc. compare the story in el salvador. how much of that country are they actually governing and how much of it are the gangs in charge of this. is it like syria where you had parts of the country governed by certain entities? reporter: well, not just the 100,000 people or so who are active gang members, there are some estimates that you have to multiply that number by five or ten to get the real number of people who are actually affiliated with gangs, supported with gangs, make their lively hood with gangs and this is a small country, el salvador. we re only talking 6.5 million people. that is roughly one in ten people there is either a gang member or makes their livelihood from a gang member. we re talking about 10% of the population, just of the population living outside the law, and this is a population that is armed. so they are able to control and exert their will over a lot more of the percentage than that. so there are large parts of the country that are not fully under the government s control. i m curious, you spent a lot of times on the front lines covering the migrant crisis into southern europe. give me some similarities, differences between what you witnessed with this migrant crisis coming up from central america. so you were talking to a lot of your guests earlier. is this a refugee crisis from central america or a migrant crisis? usually they re always mixed together. you have people fleeing from war zones and people actively afraid for their lives and want more economic opportunities. but what i haven t seen before is this family separation. as i was there in central america, watching the people try to leave, watching them be deported back home i remembered covering this massive migration crisis that was in europe a few years ago, and we saw lots and lots of refugees and lots and lots of migrants, but we didn t see authorities deliberately separating people from families. they didn t see it as necessary and productive. i was in hun garry and hungary has most aggressive, hardline, anti-immigration crisis and people are coming into hungary, and i remember one image seared in my brain, they were on the bus and people on the bus started becoming hysterical. they were shouting and under guard and very agitated. what happened is one of the family members on the bus had gotten separated from their child so everybody on the bus started to scream. the bus stopped. they opened the windows and people on the ground lowered raised the child, raised the baby on to the bus so the family could stay together and the family drove off, the bus drove off. even in hungary that has one of the most anti-immigration policy in the world right now, they were stopping the busses and making sure the people could be reunited with their families because they didn t want to inflict any more trauma on to the people, so they could control the situation and not cause unnecessary agitation and stress. richard engel, you ve seen quite a bit of this in your travels around the world, richard. thanks for your reporting. much appreciated. before we go to break, a quick programming note. jacob soboroff, tonight he ll be reporting on the crisis on dateline sunday called the dividing line it airs at 7:00, 6:00 central. we ll be right back with the panel and donald trump s first very real re-tweet as president. 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it was the public pressure. the president didn t do this easily and this is an ad hoc president leaving his staff and congressional republicans to scramble in his wake and try to make things right. if you think about the white house line on this, the line that the president s supporters took. they went from separating families was the right thing to do, to the separating families were terrible, but democrats made us do it, it s awful and only congress can fix it to the president s executive order has solved the problem and obviously there s inconsistency there. you re seeing the president scramble and he doesn t know what he thinks and this is a president with a variety of positions on this broad, immigration issue. remember he in 2012 criticized mitt romney for his self-deportation plan as maniacal, crazy and mean spirited and he s pushing a plan that i think we d all agree is more aggressive than mitt romney s. heather? i think this is what the president of the united states ace in the hole. he was very clear. my people love the family separation thing. you would think the president saying my people would mean all of us, but no. he s weaned on these negative images as immigrants of all kinds as criminals and gang members and he doubled down by saying holding that press conference by saying we have an epidemic of people being killed by undocumented immigrants when we know that immigrants, whether they re undocumented or not commit crimes at lower rates than native-born americans. this is a political strategy to divide americans to make us feel like there s a sense of panic and fear and actually think any time we use the word crisis to talk about border crossings that are at a 40-year low, we re actually feeding into that. frankly, there are things he s doing to the economy, threats to health care, tax handout to the very wealthy that are things that he wants to distract from and that s what s happening here. he made the case, it s good for me and good for the party and i thought i understand why he thinks it s good for him. it s been good for his political career. what do you make of his claim that it s good for the party for the midterms? this is the first time that i can remember some of his evangelical leaders speaking up and criticizing him which is significant when you ve had evangelicals who stood up with him through everything and criticizing him and having to walk back and having the president who is the best negotiator, walking this back himself and i don t think this is good for the party. he thinks there are 2 billion news cycles between now and november. this isn t going to anchor the party. kasie, this is the first time that i thought a subject that i think about this sunday is now the same subject, that i m questioning this sunday. that is a rare occasion and i think it tells you the potency of the issue. i m with you, chuck and i remember thinking the same thing last sunday as we were heading into the news week. you wonder is this the story that will be different and will carry through? you re absolutely right that this one did, and i also think it s the first time and erick mentioned the evangelical leaders and it s the first time congressional republicans looked at something the president did and said no way. how many times have we asked ourselves, charlottesville, the muslim ban, when will republican leaders stand up to the president? and the answer is when we saw the awful images of children being separated and there was not a person that i could find saying this is what we should be doing. no, yes, we have problems at the border and there were disagreements among republicans about thou to handle asylum claims and should we build the wall, but to a person, no one wanted to defend this? what s the bigger threat? how he s handling the issue of immigration or how he handles the cleanup of this. i want to bring up people who said this is his, quote, katrina. i want to put up a quote and george w. bush wrote about katrina. just as katrina was more than a hurricane, this is what president bush wrote, its impact was more than physical destruction, and it cast a cloud over my second term. it is possible, heather and steve that how they reunify or don t reunify becomes a competency issue and not a partisan issue. i would say maria has been president trump s katrina and i think this is another similar issue where there s just this callousness and particularly to the latino community in this country and in this part of the world, that shows that they really don t care and when a government doesn t care, you begin to erode the trust, and i think part of what s happened here is that we now have even with the executive order. we now have in every single state hundreds of thousands of people pledging to go to the border, to go to their state capitals on june 30th to rally. this has become a cultural flash point. i would just add to that, the main difference what you said about president trump is that president trump wants to exacerbate these decisions. president trump lamented those it regretted what it did. president trump wants to do this, but look, so do the democrats. it was a thoughtful, substantive conversation. by the way, they are in the 40-yard line of american politics. and the politics here, i think, one of the reasons you don t have solutions to the broader immigration problem is because it works politically for both parties and extremes of both parties. kamala harris talking about abolishing i.c.e., that s the solution where we ll abolish the bureaucracy? this is an agency, that s not the point. the point is, she s offering an extreme solution that doesn t actually solve any problem because somebody to build on heather s point here and i want to get casey in here, is this in the way that conserves will say abolish the irs which is sort of a ridiculous proposition and is this going to become that abolish the irs chant? i think it s becoming a litmus test for this issue in potentially a 2020 primary situation and if you think about kamala harris in particular, she has been very consistent, quite frankly, if you re an activist on immigration, she is one of your people. she took a vote in the senate and one of only three democrats that bucked the county on a compromise. she is to the i don t quite want to describe this as to the left. of the mainstream presidential on this issue. she is setting the bar for where that is and people, frankly, are responding and the event we went to cover and she went to visit a detention center where mothers were separated and they didn t organize a rally, but there were hundreds of people that showed up on the street and some with organizations and the aclu and others and they came to see her. it will be a fascinating debate if that percolates. you have angus king there and you will have the debate about i.c.e. in these primaries and let me take a quick break. when we come back, we ll change gears a bit and president trump said it s easy to win a trade war and there are losers in the united states and guess who most of them voted for? before we go to break, a word about someone we lost this week and charles krauthammer began a career as a psychologist and became political reknowned, and a diving accident at the age of 22 left him a quadriplegic. krauthammer was a neoconservative. in his tv appearances, he was tough and rigorous and never disagreeable. he appeared on meet the press six times and most recently he was on fox news the morning of election day with quite the far-sighted prediction of what a trump presidency might mean. the first thing he will do is he will irreversibly re-shape the party. this was the party of reagan, and the bush years were sort of an echo of the reagan years. reagan defined the contours of the party. trump will do that and it will be changed, particularly the most obvious issues are going to be immigration and trade. this will be a it will be a populist party. talk about being prescient. charles krauthammer was 68. possibilities than ever before. and american express has your back every step of the way- whether it s the comfort of knowing help is just a call away with global assist. or getting financing to fund your business. no one has your back like american express. so where ever you go. we re right there with you. the powerful backing of american express. don t do business without it. don t live life without it. - anncr: as you grow older, -your brain naturally begins to change which may cause trouble with recall. - learning from him is great. when i can keep up! - anncr: thankfully, prevagen helps your brain and improves memory. - dad s got all the answers. - anncr: prevagen is now the number-one-selling brain health supplement in drug stores nationwide. - she outsmarts me every single time. - checkmate! you wanna play again? 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ask your hep c specialist about harvoni. low, and in iowa, for example, the des moines register estimates the new tariffs could cost soybean farmers in the state, and the political consequences could be significant for the president s part especially going into the mid-terms this november. these are the top ten soy-producing states in the united states. eight of them voted for donald trump in 2016 and guess what? he came really close and won more, minnesota. a whopping 95%. the repercussions of president trump s trade policies are hurting the very people who supported him the most. the top soybean states all have either a governor s race, senate race or both this year. minnesota has two senate seats up. these red or trending red places could very well turn back into toss-ups or even go blue after november. of course, there are lots of reasons folks in these states support donald trump, and some like the tough talk, it has a lot of front, steel, aluminum and cars are on the horizon. when we re seeing now in the midwest may only be the beginning. when we come back, endgame and how our political culture wars, whatever you want to call them these days just got a lot nastier. back now with endgame. all right, we had a couple of interesting former republicans, i guess, calling for democrats to take control of house. michael bloomberg, he s going to support flipping the house. he says republicans in congress have had almost two years to prove they can govern responsibly and they failed and it s critical we elect people who lead in ways this congress don t. i forgot. chevy also won a j.d. power dependability award for its light-duty truck the chevy silverado. oh, and since the chevy equinox and traverse also won chevy is the only brand to earn the j.d. power dependability award across cars, trucks and suvs-three years in a row. phew. third time s the charm. that s confident. but it s not kayak confident. kayak searches hundreds of travel and airline sites to find the best flight for me. so i m more than confident. how s your family? 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[ ding ] -not today, ron. back now with endgame. al back now with end game. all right. we had a couple of interesting former republicans, i guess, calling for democrats to take control of house. first you had michael bloomberg. he s going to support flipping the house. he says republicans in congress have had two years they could govern responsibly. they failed. as we approach the 2018 mid terms it is critical wee elect people would can lead in ways this congress won t. you can argue whether bloomberg was a republican before, switched to democrat. i ll take your point. how about george will? the republican caucus must be substantially reduced so substantially their remnants reduced to minorities will be stripped of the article 1 constitutional powers. a legislature whose unexercised muscles have atrophied because of people like them. mr. eriksson, what do you make of this? i disagree with my friend george will. i agree congress has let their muscles atrophy in legtsing congress. it is a class of pundits as opposed to a class of legislators. it is a real problem on both sides of the aisle where both sides want the issue to campaign on. i do think there is a danger for democrats, though, in that typically in the midterms you depend on an incumbent party that doesn t turnout. and the progressive culture war, the immigration issues and whatnot, are firing up the republican base. kasie? you know, one risk here that i do think when i read george will s comment about difficuming these majorities, congress doesn t realize if they get really close that they don t actually if democrats don t actually win the house, you re going to be left with the narrow est of republican majorities and that s going to hand all of the power to the far-right of the conference. so, if republicans, if never trump republicans want democrats to win the house, they better get their acts together and work as hard as they can otherwise the consequence are going to be worse. embrace your new progressive friend george will. you know, listen, i have been asking for republicans to put country over party since, since trump walked down those stairs. so i absolutely believe that this is the beginning of the change and rebirth of the republican party which is going to be necessary. it s too far to the fringe. we have the fringe in the white house and this country is not going to be able to be a bipartisan country in the republicans continue to have this identity. eight steve, i would say you re in the middle of this fight inside the movement. i won t call it your party, but the conservative movement right. one wing versus this trump wing. it s not my party. there is no question that what you re seeing is an ideological scramble. george will is making a long-term argument. most members of congress is living the short term. that s the big challenge. very diplomatic, by the way. the culture wars reared their ugly head this weekend. we had sarah sanders get kicked out of a restaurant by the owner because she worked for president trump. you had mike huckabee use pretty disgusting sort of tweet, picture here to describe nancy pelosi and her campaign committee using gang members on that. eric eriksson, you were critical of all of it. of all of it. and interestingly, you were almost apologetic. your younger self might have participated in some of this. yeah. is this the new normal? is this going to get even ugly er? i think it is going to get uglier. james hodge kin is more of an anomaly than inflection point. if both sides don t rein it in, no, you started it, this happened, this happened. i had trump supporters show up on my front porch to threaten my family. you have the secretary of homeland security progressive activists show up at her house to protest her. you have people getting thrown out of restaurants. if we can t agree to disagree and let each other be and nielgter side wants to do that, it becomes a problem. we have as religion in the country fades and society becomes more secular, people are finding their salvation in their morals and politics and that s a bad thing. i actually think there is a big difference between one of the most powerful people in the world, sarah sandehuckabee sand using her government platform to claim victim status. she is distracting from that and the way the policy is victimizing the least powerful people on the planet, refugee children. there is a difference between being discriminated against for who you are and being judged for what you do. and that s what we saw. chuck, i think one thing, too, here is people the tenor of the debate on whether or not there are people across the other side of the aisle who you might be able to work with has completely fallen apart. i feel like even you see it a lot on capitol hill. you used to be there were these great alliances and friendships. ted kennedy, al warner. people worked together and you saw that reflected in voters as well. voters were willing to consider voting for somebody else. the tribalism of this, i just fail to see if you think that just because you re a member of the other party that there is no circumstance under which you can work with that person is scary. there is power in persuasion. whatever happened to the golden rule, if everybody just did golden rule with the w we might be in a tiny bit better place. that s all for today. thanks for watching. we re going to continue this conversation. for now we ll be back next week because if it s sunday it s meet the press. this is a story about mail and packages. and it s also a story about people. people who rely on us every day to deliver their dreams they re handing us more than mail they re handing us their business and while we make more e-commerce deliveries to homes than anyone else in the country, we never forget. that your business is our business the united states postal service. priority: you (honking) when your craving strikes, you need your wing nut. 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add-on advantage. discounted hotel rates when you add on to your trip. only when you book with expedia. welcome to kasie d.c. i m kasie hunt. we are live every sunday from washington from 7:00 to 9:00 p.m. eastern. tonight, critical mass. thought our politics were explosive before? try replacing the swing vote on the supreme court. we ll talk about the wild conjecture and what s actually about to happen. at the same time, democrats take stock after a top member of leadership is upset in new york. rising stars ben jealous and jason candor join me live to talk about what their party should do next. and later i travel to utah to talk with mitt romney on the campaign trail. he s set to become the republican senator in the age of trump. plus, do not congratulate. russia stuns spain at the world cup. but first the interviews, the lobbying effort and even the ads are underway to replace justice anthony kennedy on the supreme court. the president is back home after spending the weekend at bedminster conferring with white house counsel don mcgahn. a handful of names are floating around from the president s list of 25. democrats are pushing to postpone the confirmation until after the midterms. my colleagues on both sides of the aisle know that this vote could be one of the key votes of their entire career. if they vote for somebody who is going to change precedent, it could be a career-ending move. you don t need a degree in applied physics to understand the forces that democrats are up against. so for the white house, it s striking the right balance. convince republicans to hang together and change the court for decades to come. i think it s going to go very quickly. i think we re going to have a lot of support. i think we re going to have support from democrats. frankly, i think if it s the right person. i m going to pick the right person. i m going to pick somebody that s outstanding and everybody on that list is outstanding. a lot of people think it s going to be a very it s probably going to be vicious because the other side, all they can do is obstruct and resist, you know the whole thing is resist. i d like to welcome in my outstanding panel, two of the best reporters in the country on the supreme court legal affairs from npr, anyone a totenberg and justice correspondent pete williams. in new york former federal prosecutor georgetown university prosecutor and msnbc legal analyst paul butler. pete and anyonnina, i d like tot the conversation off with you. as we were going on the air, i thought i should step back and let the two of you tell our viewers what is about to unfold. pete, just to start out, the context of this, everybody has cast this retirement as one that is unlike any other, at least in the last generation. do you think that is a fair characterization? the last 50 years or so, ever since the nixon administration and earl warren stepped off the court and warren berger took his place. i d say every time i hear a reporter say the trump nominee could change the supreme court, i think what s this could stuff? of course it s going to change the supreme court because anthony kennedy really, after sandra day o connor stepped down in 2006, he has been the key vote. really, for most of the cases we pay attention to, you can t win without anthony kennedy. if he votes with the liberals, you get a liberal outcome. if he votes with the conservatives, you get a conservative outcome. that vote is about to be replace bid a conservative. the conservatives will have a solid majority and that s going to make a huge difference. nina, let s step back a minute. for those of us who have not watched the court as long as you ve had the privilege to, there is some sense of question as to how somebody like anthony kennedy got on the court in the first place. these debates are so polarized now. he got on the court actually because president reagan nominated robert bork who was a hard core conservative to the core, and bank of new york was soundly defeated. he then put up another nominee who had to withdraw because it turned out that he had been smoking marijuana. you can do that nowadays. you can do that nowadays. at the time, though, the reagan administration wouldn t hire anybody in the justice department who had admitted to smoking marijuana and they never asked him that question apparently when he went to work at the reagan justice department. so, he went by the wayside, but stayed a distinguished federal judge. that left they really they needed to pick somebody and it was, you know, it was time. and justice kennedy got the nod and he was a pretty conservative guy. and they looked at all of his writings and they were concerned about his some footnote that he wrote about respect for privacy, but they decided to overlook it and there were people in the administration later who didn t like the fact that they had overlooked it. i mean, they thought that was a bad thing. and just i would add two things to that. number one, remember that justice kennedy we talk about today is not the one that came onto the court back in 1988. secondly, you had this sort of more moderate push. once bank of new york gork got next nominee was conservative. the democrats controlled the senate. it s not like you go from conservative to more moderate. they re all pretty mainstream conservative. even if something happened to this nominee, whoever it s going to be, it s not like the next one up would be very different. to rain on the parade a little i m sorry, paul, go ahead. i want to rain on the parade regarding justice kennedy swing. he did swing, but mainly to the right, and so he wrote the majority opinion in citizens united, that case that said corporations are like people. he also voted for bush in bush versus gore. so on certain issues like lgbt issues, he got it in the way most conservatives don t. but in other kinds of civil rights issues not so much. and the voting rights act, of course. voting rights act, exactly. pete, quickly, you have a short list of based on your reporting of that kind of list, the 25 that the president had compiled. and to this point about conservative to conservative, one thing that s been raised in my reporting is the idea if they were to select a woman the woman on this list, amy conan barrett of indiana is that something where you have a sense that on questions of precedent, questions of roe v. wade she could have an easier time getting through the senate or be somebody who could make them feel better about the issues? not necessarily. she had said roe was erroneously decided is the term she used. to be fair, ruth bader ginsburg said the same thing. it came to the court too fast and the court shouldn t have decided it. but nonetheless, remember she just got on the court of appeals by president trump, so she s been there for about a year. she s already survived the senate confirmation. she was a law professor at notre dame. now she s a federal judge. i heard the president say or someone say the president was going to talk to perhaps two women, and for the life of me i m not sure who the second woman is. i m not either. let me say something about the list of the president s. the list as much as a political document, the people who compiled it didn t think it was a political document, the folks at the society and heritage foundation. they don t think they re mainstream conservatives. they think they re movement conservatives. those 25 folks are movement conservatives. they re people who have been waiting a long time to look at vast quantities of the law, very, very differently. and the president the first list was 12, i think. president was so thrilled that it reassured the evangelicals, got such great press in the conservative press about it, he said let s do it again. and that then they added a couple more people. but that s the list. and the list is not what we used to call a mainstream conservative. it may be some day mainstream, but today, even on this court i would say the people on this list would be on the far-right of the court. paul, can i get you to weigh in? it s a good point. this is something that was compiled as president trump was trying to demonstrate his bona fides in the primary. it doesn t matter that the president won t ask how they feel about roe v. wade or lgbt rights. he already knows. president trump said something unusually sage and learned on friday. he said, apart from war, this is the most important decision a president makes, and maybe that s why he s outsourced this process to this far-right federalist society. again, i think he thinks that the gorsuch nomination was one of the highlights of his presidency, so he wants to do it all over again. again, you can t overstate how conservative gorsuch is. he s more conservative than scalia who he replaced. he s about level with justice clarence thomas, one of the most conservative people ever to sit on the supreme court. yeah, i actually want to forgive me for my control room loop here. i want to read part of this piece part of your piece. you say that after 30 years on the court, he believes that once rights are recognized they will not be taken away. that includes the right to abortion that he helped to preserve and rights for gay people he helped to establish, the right to marry and be treated equally. time will tell, but every indication is president trump in a little over a week is someone who does not think those rights are fully protected by the constitution. i think we have the sound. one of the concepts that really means a lot in america is you don t overturn precedent unless there is a good reason. and i would tell my pro-life friends, you can be pro life and conservative, but you can also believe in story decisis. roe v. wade has been affirmed many years. i hope the justice that sits on the court, all of them, would listen to the arguments on both sides before they decide it. the story decisis is a well known concept in our law. nina, for people who are watching this unfold and who are worried, for whatever reason, but let s take people who are worried because they believe that they want roe v. wade upheld, what s the real likelihood that this is going to be a major confrontation down the line? are there cases wanting their way through the system now? what i always said was it s not going to be overturned as long as kennedy is there. kennedy is gone. i think the odds are not bad that it might be overturned. and what if there is yet another i mean, we have two other members of the court, steve briar, 77, ruth ginsburg is 85. i think there are two ways to go here. you can expect that it will be whittled away so that you can have a lot make abortion pretty just about inaccessible in the 20 or so states that have tried to do that. sometimes it already is. or it will be overturned outright. i don t foresee another one of these coalitions coming together that says, look, this has been the law for 50, 40 some odd years and we re going to respect it. that s what story decisis is, respecting precedent. to us, the people who want to overturn it, is like racial segregation. they want to overturn it because it was wrong in their view. pete williams, what s your reporting on this and how realistic is it that there are cases that will wind their way through that would ultimately lead to an overturning of roe v. wade? there is no shortage of cases in the states that have tried repeat lid to overturn roe. the more recent trend with ken dip on the court has been to say, well, that s a lost cause. so the action has been in the states to, as nina say, restrict access. instructive example. texas passed a law that said a clinic that provides abortion services has to be built to the same standards as an ambulatory care center and the doctors who perform the abortions have to have admitting privileges at a nearby hospital. no hospital would give them admitting privileges. it was a sort of, in essence, a ban on abortion. the supreme court shot that down with justice kennedy voting with the liberals. so, without him there it s more likely, as nina said, these restrictions on abortion, age, consent, time of pregnancy when it s available, types of services, restrictions on medication abortions, they re much more likely to be upheld even if roe survives. very interesting. much more to come when kasie d.c. continues. rod rosenstein faces down congress as the mueller probe quietly presses on. plus, demonstrations break out across the country as the immigration debate stalls yet again. and later i m joined by former communications director anthony scaramucci amid rumors of new white house shake ups. as we go to break, we dug deep into our vaults for a news reel on how we got to this moment for the supreme court. when republicans blocked even a hearing for merit garland. the sproupreme court, the highest court in all the land, where are the justices now? in their black robes and the yes, their appointments last for life. and when one dies or retires, we go helter-skelter, crazier than a soup sandwich. and today our seat sits open on the high court s bench. here s president barack obama pleading to accept his nominee. i ask that they confirm merritt garland to the supreme court. merritt garland, mr. moderate. democrats say he s an ideal choice, but not so fast. the grand old party has their game faces on and are ready to play hardball. it is clear president obama has made his nomination to politicize it for purposes of the election. that s right, leadership marks precedent vowing not to confirm a nominee until the next president is sworn into office. my oh, my, what a time to be alive! a single tap offerss to peace of mind.y, uber is giving you new ways to tell loved ones you re on your way. uber is moving in a new direction. forward. you finished preparing overhim for college.ou v in 24 hours, you ll send him off thinking you ve done everything for his well-being. but meningitis b progresses quickly and can be fatal, sometimes within 24 hours. while meningitis b is uncommon, about 1 in 10 infected will die. like millions of others, your teen may not be vaccinated against meningitis b. meningitis b strikes quickly. be quick to talk to your teen s doctor about a meningitis b vaccine. they work togetherf doing important stuff. the hitch? 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[ ding ] -not today, ron. media reports are mistaken. sometimes, but this is what they said. having the nation s number one law enforcement officer threaten to subpoena your cause in e-mails is down right chilling. did you threaten to subpoena their cause in e-mail s? no, sir, and there is no way to subpoena phone calls. i m just saying. who are we supposed to believe, staff members who we ve worked with, who never misled us, or you guys who we ve caught hiding information from us who tell a witness not to answer our questions? who are we supposed to believe? thank you for making it clear it s not personal, mr. jordan. i m saying the department of justice i m telling the truth and i m under oath. those are just some of the heated exchanges we saw on thursday as fbi director christopher wray and deputy attorney general rod rosenstein faced off with members of the house judiciary committee. the house also passed a resolution in the middle of that hearing seeking to compel documents from the justice department regarding the russia investigation. joining our conversation former u.s. attorney and msnbc contributor joyce vance. joyce, i ll start with you on what we just saw. and i know you were paying attention to it over the course of the week. it was really, i thought, a remarkable display for them to so publicly attack rosenstein. it was incredible. this was the deputy attorney general, the number two guy in the justice department, testifying under oath and being accused of lying by a member of congress. while that deputy attorney general is in the middle of supervising the turnover to congress of an unprecedented level of documentation in an ongoing investigation. and the president has he did an interview with maria bartiromo of facts and talked about why he or how his involvement is coming to be. we ll take a look the about it, and paul butler i ll ask you about t. are you going to ask them to get those documents over to congress? i may get involved. i ve been told by so many people don t get involved. it s not good. and they ll get the documents and it s getting and they re getting them, and they re great people. i didn t like the scene the other day where everybody was screaming at each other. i don t like that because it s bad for the country. if russia is, in fact, looking to sow discord or chaos, they have to be saying this is the greatest thing we ve ever done. paul butler, what is your take on the president s words? that was in many ways i m not sure i heard him acknowledge the russian s goal was to sow discord. i know rod rosenstein, we started at the justice department as prosecutors. he s normally the textbook example of non-emotive. i ve never seen him as angry at the congressional hearing. add to the mix of the reporting that he feels exploited or used by president trump when he wrote that memo, when trump got him to write that memo justifying the firing of james comey, i m sure trump would love to fire rosenstein right now, but republicans on the hill said that s a line that he shouldn t cross. and so it s rosenstein who gets to make the decisions about what documents are shared with the congress. and again, i think he s going to toe the line and the president has to basically, you know, follow the will of the career public servant which is exactly what he should do. pete williams, you have covered the fbi for many years and i feel like i watch you on television all the time and you say, we have no comment because this is an ongoing criminal investigation. it seems unprecedented to me the number of documents of an ongoing criminal investigation that the fbi is turning over to congress. well, it is. and i think to some extent, the former fbi director shares some of the reasons that this is happening. but let s step back and see what s happening. we do have two separate branches of government. when a criminal investigation is going on, it s traditionally been the view of the justice department, no matter whether republican or democrat in the white house, that you don t turn over to congress your investigative materials. you just don t do that. and these members know that. and i think they re trying to get it for two reasons. one is to undercut the credibility of mueller s investigation. but secondly, to try to sort of set-up rod rosenstein for failure. to get him to say no so that they can cite him for contempt or something. but i do think that james comey bears some of the responsibility for why this is happening because after the clinton e-mail investigation, he gave huge amounts of information to congress. now, granted, the investigation was over, at least they thought it was at that point. but he gave them the fbi interviews, the so-called 302s that joyce and nina know all about, the raw interview what time frame was this? this was shortly after his testimony. okay. after his july news conference. i think he thought that it would members of congress would read this and say, oh, i get it, i see why james comey did what he did. what he did was create 535 g-men that thought they can now get access to these documents. as somebody who covers congress every day, that image i find mildly terrifying. it should be grossly terrifying. g-men, oh, boy. so, trey gowdy has been somebody who has gone back and forth on this, he drew a lot of attention when he defended mueller s investigation. but he had some pretty tough words in this hearing. take a look. russia attacked this country. they should be the target, but russia isn t being hurt by this investigation right now. we are. this country is being hurt by it. we are being divided. we ve seen the bias. we ve seen the bias. we need to see the evidence. if you have evidence of wrongdoing by any member of the trump campaign, present it to the dam grand jury. if you have evidence that this president acted inappropriately, present it to the american people. whatever you got, finish it the hell up. because this country is being torn apart. so, nina, he raises this point in here we need to see the evidence, if you have any evidence of wrongdoing by the trump campaign. it raises the question whether there ultimately will be a potential supreme court case around what comes out of the mueller investigation. and there s also been part of the conversation around the justice if they select somebody, should they have to recuse themselves. there very well could be just on the question of whether or not the president agrees to testify. if he says, no, i m not going to have his deposition taken. if he says no, i m not going to be interviewed by mueller and then they subpoena him, then and then trump lawyers challenge the subpoena, it will go to the supreme court and it will matter what that justice who is sitting where justice kennedy was, what he thinks. at least one of the potential nominees has written that he thinks that the president should be excused from civil suits and from this kind of from special prosecutors entirely. that s brett kavanagh. that s brett kavanagh. i don t know whether he thought that was something that congress should do or that the court should do frankly, but to be fair, this is a you know, the position that the president has taken from time to time is and this is only a slight exaggeration because he said, i could go out and shoot somebody in the middle of 5th avenue and nobody my base wouldn t care. and he apparently thinks, from everything he said, that he ought to control the justice department and he would not be subject to prosecution. now, that s that s a stretch for me and mr. gowdy, with all deference to mr. gowdy, the reason they haven t finished their investigation is this involves a foreign nation and intelligence and not just was somebody taking money from the cookie jar. joyce vance it s pretty complicate and had it takes a little bit of time. it does take time. a little bit or a long time. joyce vance, the last word on gowdy and i what we saw here. gowdy s questioning of rosenstein is interesting because we know the mueller investigation has already produ produced indictments. the one of the campaign managers is sitting in prison awaiting trial. as representative gowdy well knows, it is entirely possible mueller has taken more to the grand jury. there are sealed indictments that haven t yet been made public and mueller has, in fact, already taken the evidence that gowdy is complaining doesn t exist, to a grand jury. one suspects that this russian troll farm indictment that s already public will have an american component, perhaps involving stone or other close advisors of the president in the coming weeks. it s going to be a long hot summer in washington starting this weekend. we re all in 90 degree heat. nina, paul, joyce, paul butler, thank you to you. the ink is dry on the executive order and protests break out across the country as the country s immigration policy remains unresolved. we re back after this. still a chance here. it s willingham, edge of the box, willingham shoots. goooooooaaaaaaaallllllll! that.was.magic. willingham tucks it in and puts the championship to bed. sweet dreams, nighty night. as long as soccer players celebrate with a slide, you can count on geico saving folks money. fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more on car insurance. pressure, what pressure? 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how about some of the lowest options fees? are you raising your hand? good then it s time for power e trade the platform, price and service that gives you the edge you need. alright one quick game of rock, paper, scissors. 1, 2, 3, go. e trade. the original place to invest online. welcome back to kasie d.c. in just eight days, president trump will announce his pick to replace retiring justice anthony kennedy on the supreme court. right now the president says he is considering about five people to fill that vacant slot, including two women. joining me now, former white house communications director anthony scaramucci. mr. scaramucci, it is good to see you. i have to ask you first about this tmz, i think, caught up with you and asked you about who the president is going to pick for the supreme court. can you again tell us who you think he s going to choose? and also how do you know? well, that s my guess. i mean, that would be my vaguest sports guess. it s only because of the closeness of the family, the fact that mary trump barry is on the third circuit with him. he s a great judge, a very down to earth guy. but then when i said that, i didn t realize that there were going to be two women on the list of finalists. and so that probably alters my view a little bit. i mean, it could be possible that the president will pick one of those two women. so i m a little less confident than i was when i did the tmz interview. you think there is anyway in the world he deviates from this list of 25? there was some speculation about senator mike lee, or do you think we re definitely going to get somebody on this list he publpu published? i can only go by what we discussed during the campaign and what led up to gorsuch. i think he s going to stick to the list. he likes that list. i also feel he made a campaign promise he was going to pick people off the list. he then said after justice gorsuch got on the court he was going to add people to the list, which he did. so i think it would be uncharacteristic of him if he goes off the list. having said that, the people that they are talking about, should there be another retirement, i could see him adding other people to the list, like the ones that have been talked about. i want to talk to you, too, a little about trade and tariffs. this, of course, something your business background, you have weighed in and people have noticed. here s what the had to say about it in his fox interview, and we ll talk about it. would it be better to actually have our allies together to go against china instead of pushing back on our allies? excuse me. the european union is possibly as bad as china, just smaller, okay. it s terrible what they did to us. european union, take a look at the car situation. they send their mercedes in. we can t send our cars in. look what they do to our formers. they don t want our farm products. in all fairness, they have their farmers so they want to protect their farmers. but we don t protect ours and they protect theirs. you tweeted critically of the president apartmen president s policy on that position saying he needs to, quote, change tactics now. what doesn t the president get about this, in your view? this is the thing. when people say i m tweeting critically, i m just really offering a bird s eye advice objectively. it s like the same thing with the child separation act. i said that that s a ridiculous policy. it has to be reversed. i think what sometimes happens is you re sitting in an echo chamber, kasie, and everybody wants to reaffirm each other s biases. you called on the president to change tactics now. i did. and the called on the president to reverse the child separation policy as well. but the reason i want to change tactics now is i spent a lot of time analyzing the situation and looking at flow of funds data, not only in europe, but here in the united states as well as china. and one of the things the president has done an amazing job of is he s boosted consumer confidence and the tax cut has led to a stimulation of the economy. not just our economy, but the global economy. what you re watching is the rhetoric and the tension and the escalation of the trade rhetoric is causing a loss of confidence that is very, very bad for market psychology. and so i m just sending up a warning flare to my friend and saying, listen, one way to change tactics here, the europeans and the united states, roughly a billion people, 46% of the world s gdp, both have issues with china. the president could say, listen why don t we address the imbalances that we both have with china first and then we can workout concession was each other. the only thing i disagree with the president on, i say this with great respect. i want him to win in the worst possible way and i m loyal to him. you have said that. you have to understand the history of what happened with us and europe. go back to the marshall plan, go back to the 47- 48 gad agreement. you ll see why these are imbalanced. we were i m sorry? the canadians today, i understand the point you re making about europe. okay. to expand that broadly to canada, the canadians slapped counter tariffs on us, on america today. do you think that the president is damaging the country in creating a trade war with our closest ally across our border? i would say not yet, no. i don t think any real damage has happened yet reverse course? the market is telling you that. it doesn t matter what you think or i think, kasie. the market is telling you that. if you look at flow of funds data and you look at the last six months of market activity, the stock market was up roughly 2.5% for the first six months. that s the worst half of a year since 2010 when we ve had a very great period of robust growth and low monetary policy. so, the market is getting in a defensive position and girding itself. and what i don t like about what s going on is the president set the tempo for american ceos, business leaders large and small. america is open for business, let s invest in the country. let s repatriate capital back from overseas. the trade rhetoric is slowing people down and he s a very, very smart guy. he s an entrepreneur. he adapted on the child separation policy. i figure he can adapt here quickly where we can leave the economy growing and still address the trade issue. i think he s right on the trade issue, but i think he s wrong to go at both sides as aggressively as he s going. now, a lot of people will be criticizing me for saying that. that s fine. i think it is very, very important that we have smart people sitting in the room and offering different advice, which may or may not be inside the consensus. speaking of people sitting inside the room, there s been a lot of chatter. this comes up from time to time, but there seems to be some more concrete details around chief of staff, john kelly potentially leaving. there s rumors, i would say, about sarah huckabee sanders and her tenure in the administration. we re running out of time, but quickly i want to know what you take first of all on the leaks out of the administration, what you make of those. second of all, has anybody been in touch with you about making a return run? no, thank god, no one has been in touch with me. but quickly, sarah s great. if general kelly is leaving, i wish him well. and the president will pick somebody hopefully that really likes him so he can start building a team around him, of people that really like the president as opposed to this establishment nonsense. the president has an agenda do you think the president has been effective? well, listen, you know, i have spoken about it before so i don t want to be the guy that s like beating the tommy-tom drum. do you think he s effective? that s a yes or no question. kasie, do you think he s been effective? i ll leave you this one last thought. he wasn t capable of bringing one person into the white house. he didn t recruit one person. usually leadership, people want to work for you or work under you. they come running through the door to come work for you. so, listen, him and i don t like each other. it s totally fine. i don t want to make it personal, but just analyze it and be objective about it. and by the way, he only gave me 11 days as a communications director. three or four more days, i would have fired several of those people that are still leaking on the president right now. anthony scaramucci, thank you very much. happy holiday to you. happy 4th, kasie, happy 4th. coming up, a growing number of democrats call to abolishites as the immigration reaches a tipping point. you re watching kasie d.c. oh, you brought butch. yeah! 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seeing these guys. don t stop taking eliquis unless your doctor tells you to, as stopping increases your risk of having a stroke. eliquis can cause serious and in rare cases fatal bleeding. don t take eliquis if you have an artificial heart valve or abnormal bleeding. while taking eliquis, you may bruise more easily and it may take longer than usual for any bleeding to stop. seek immediate medical care for sudden signs of bleeding, like unusual bruising. eliquis may increase your bleeding risk if you take certain medicines. tell your doctor about all planned medical or dental procedures. eliquis, the number one cardiologist-prescribed blood thinner. ask your doctor if eliquis is what s next for you. cardiologist-prescribed blood thinner. heartburn and gas? now fight both fast new tums chewy bites with gas relief all in one relief of heartburn and gas tum tum tum tums new tums chewy bites with gas relief we have a mission: to help hand everyone a better world. that s why we, at the coca-cola company, make shore breaks with actual coconuts. tea, organically. treats for celebrations. water with added minerals for taste. dear future us, that s why we re striving to do good. and help our communities get the education they deserve. we re doing this today. .so you can do even more. the coca-cola company think about starting from scratch. i think it s too aggressive and over the top and i think it s lost its course. so we should replace it with something sensible, something practical. they still have to be a law enforcement agency but one that is a little more humane. we should froe text families that need our help and that is not what i.c.e. is doing today. start over, reimagine it, and build something that actually works. we can replace it with a humane agency that is directed toward safe passage rather than criminalization. we need to rebuild our immigration system from top to bottom, starting by replacing i.c.e. with something that reflects our morality and our joining me now on set, political reporter for axios, alexa mccanaan. chief correspondent for cnbc, john harwood. and contributor raul reyes. raul, i want to start with you. these abolish i.c.e. cries really that are sweeping through the 2020 democratic establishment, what s your take on how that unrolls going forward? is it akin to republicans who have said abolish the irs, kind of knowing that ultimately taxes were never going to stop being collected? or is it something that speaks to a potential reality down the road? no, my take on this is that this growing movement which is increasingly as the clips show becoming mainstream, it reflects like such profound disenchantment with the role of this agency. some people see the calls to abolish i.c.e. as really a flat out call to end the agency. others see it other progressives see it as more of a starting point for a broader discussion about the role of the agency. here are the facts. it is a fact that i.c.e. has unleashed tremendous harm among latino and immigrant communities. i.c.e. also sweeps up hundreds of u.s. citizens who cannot prove with papers on them that they are indeed citizens. so, this is an agency that has done a lot of damage and that, i think on the progressive side of the party, the swiftness of this movement going mainstream reflects that. so, to me it s more than just, you know, calls to abolish the irs. what i m hearing a lot of is the push back on the right saying without i.c.e. we ll have open borders and there will be no immigration enforcement. whereas that is a misrepresentation of the issue because i.c.e. does not handle our borders. that s the role of the border patrol, customs and border protection, so we can have a strong border and we can have a new agency handling interior enforcement. interior enforcement is the job of i.c.e. john harwood, the kind of politics around this and the discrepancy between some of the younger alexandra or tcortez. i m taking to hillary clinton that you don t insist on a policy that isn t going to become law, and bernie sanders making it idealism saying we have to do all these things. it seems to me that the young the energy in the party is with, you know, the idealism. it is, but this is one area where i think the fact that you don t have a singular leader of the democratic party right now is an advantage. presidential nominees and presidents define their parties. and so when you have members of congress, there are a whole lot of them. i doubt that nancy pelosi and chuck schumer are going to make abolishing i.c.e. a core democratic issue in this campaign, and so the fact that a few people are calling for this and rallying progressives around that, i don t think it has the same kind of potential that the president s talking about, to cast the entire party as the radical left. i just don t see that happening. alexis, let s not forget there is from what we can tell 2000 or so children who are separated from their families, and this really does seem to be abolish i.c.e. had been something activists had been using as a hashtag and focused on, but it really exploded into the mainstream after those child separation tz. right, because they think this is an issue that moves the democratic base in a way we haven t seen in a while. abolish i.c.e. is a perfect antithesis trump supporters chant to this day even though he s not running for reelection. among this revved uprising grassroots activist base in the democratic party. if they think they can use them, saying democrats are calling for open borders, i think it will be hard for them to make the argument that you can have strong borders and abolish i.c.e. a senior democratic source said no one means this in a literal sense. the source said they mean it, to abolish i.c.e. is symbolic. the cultural argument of what is going on, whether it s children being separated or the president calling for deportations. it might not lead to the actual abolition of i.c.e. not necessarily practical. right. there was a memo that went out from the congressional hispanic caucus that essentially made the argument that hey, it might be better for everybody if he we cooled it down and instead focused on our actual immigration laws and not the enforcers, so to speak. what did you make of that memo? when i saw i did see the story about the memo. to me it sort of reflects that the caucus has maybe not wrapped their collective mind around how to deal with this issue, which has come up so quickly. but i would say that my sense is that this movement, it s real. it s not a sort of a theoretical call like abolish i.c.e. just in the sense of pushing back on trump. and when many people are calling to abolish i.c.e., they re not saying to do away with any interior immigration enforcement. they are saying the agency as we know it should either be reformed, the duties should be given to gnaw entity, or there should be some type of radical restructuring of the agency. it doesn t seem that anyone is saying we shouldn t do immigration enforcement which is to a certain extent necessary in this country. raul reyes, thank you very much for your perspective on this. thank you. i really appreciate it. just ahead, the supreme court, mid terms and a shocking fall from leadership. it s an interesting time to be a democrat. in my next hour, i m joined by two high profile candidates, ben jealous and jason kander, who is running for mayor of kansas city. we re back after this. starting with features designed to make it easy for your driver to find you. taking the stress out of pickups. and we re putting safety at the heart of everything we do. with a single tap, we re giving you new ways to let loved ones know you re on your way. uber has new leadership, a new vision and is moving in a new direction. forward. he eats a bowl of hammers at every meal he holds your house in the palm of his hand he s your home and auto man big jim, he s got you covered great big jim, there ain t no other -so, this is covered, right? 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