amateur criminologists. remember that? the frenzy spun out of control. soon, liberals were not simply talking about a stolen election but about war, actual war. if russia is going toal keep attacking america, then america really should fight back. there is an entire buildingic in st. petersburg filled with a russian troll army creating thousands of tweets, memes, news sites comments and flat-out fake o stories designed not to take sides on any issue but just to get us fighting about it. hillary clinton spent overto a billion dollars on the campaign, and the russians beat her with 150 grand because they were able to turn facebook into fake book.bl tucker: so you are accusing a nuclear armed adversary of committing an act of war and you are doing it purely in order to gain an advantage in a domestic political dispute? no normal person would do that. it s too reckless and crazy.l with the more than $100 million hillary clinton s familyo foundation took from uranium one board members? she was the secretary of state at the time. u maybe. just a guess. at some point, we will find out for sure. that s the upside of the hysteria over russiane. collusion. its unintended consequences will be fun to watch. because when you make up a fake scandal, you never really know where it s going to go. richard goodstein has seen a lot of fake scandals. he has been in d.c. a long time. he is a lawyer who has advised both of hillary clinton s presidential campaigns. he joins us tonight. great to be back. tucker: i was thinking you know, russia obviously is the greatest geostrategic threat in this country. i know that because i listen to the democrats, all my neighborst and i wonder if this has caused you to rethink the position democrats had for 70 years when the soviet union existed where they made excusesd for the soviet union and prevented missile defense from being built in this country. are you rethinking that? is anyone atoning for that? because i watched it, and that happened. yeah, i don t think that s a fair characterization. i think what this uranium one scandal, pardon me if i put it like that, shows me that the u people pushing this feel like the noose of mueller is tightening. otherwise, no self-respecting person, based on the facts, not an ounce of uranium has been exported. tucker: untrue. the price has dropped by two thirds since this was passed. there s zero evidence, not withstanding the republicans controlled the house andnd senate and could have investigated fairly well, not one stitch of evidence that hillary clinton had anything to do with it, didn t even know about it, nor should she have. tucker: i agree with that last point. the republicans could have investigated and they didn t, and that s a fair question. it s hard to believe that you re going to defend that decision signing off on the uranium one deal as a policy matter. knowing what you know about russia, was it really a good idea for the obama administration and the secretary of state, hillary clinton, to approve a deal giving the russians control of 20% of our uranium supply? why was that in our interest? again, none of this will ever the nuclear regulatory commission keeps this from being exported. tucker: that is absolutely false. you are wrong. where is the evidence on that? tucker: the nuclear regulatory commission hass conceded that that material has left wyoming, which is where the deposits are mostly in the united states, and left this country. i they have no export licensees as printed in the new york times. that material has left. so, my question is, you know, first of all, who is surprised by that? the federal government, they can t keep track of anything? why was this a good idea? why did hillary s office and the obama administration sign off on giving the russians a fifth of our uranium? so, again, i will tell you i do not subscribe tom? your facts and the evidence i is that at our ports, one thing we monitor for is fissile nuclear material. tucker: it went through canada. you can read the new york times about it. why was it a good idea to allow, to sign off on this? again, as your audience should know, there were 9, 10 different federal agencies that all had to sign off. tucker: obama agencies. they all signed off. why? of course. they did it was noncontroversial. tucker: that s not a good reason. why was it in america s interests to give a fifth of our uranium supply to the russians, which you are now arguing constitute the greatest threat we face. some has left the country. a fifth hasn t. tucker: they have control of it. why is that a good idea to give a hostile power 20% of our uranium supplies? it s insane. there is no shortage of uranium.o that s why the price has dropped. tucker: so it is a good idea? the price has dropped. why? because natural gas is so cheap that building nuclear power plants frankly doesn t make sense. tucker: that is not the concern. the concern is not that this uranium will go to build nuclear power plants.ken. the concern is it will be used for offensive weapons. that s the concern and the fact that a fair amount of it, according to the new york times, has been exported off this continent. not just to canada but off this continent. but here s the point. you are not going to answer the question. i can t find a single person who will defend this as a decision made by hillary clinton and barack obama and others in that administration. why would you do this? and i m saying it wasn t a decision made by them. tucker: yes, it was.. it was made by people in w agencies that they ran. the fact is, again, there is zero evidence. this was raised a year ago, again. tucker: so they didn t know? how would hillary clinton not know if a russian company was getting 20% of our uranium supply. what was she doing? that is the central fact, conjured fact, that people who are promoting this story have to hold on to. that hillary either was derelict in her duty or knew. neither of which is the case. why should she have known? in the fact, the fact of the matter is, as this case the foreign law that deals withr approving or not approving the export of material, that s something that doesn t rise to the level of the secretary, her or eric holder or the president. tucker: what you said rises to the level of nonsense. o the guy who founded uranium one was a board member ond their family foundation board, gave over $100 million to the clinton family foundation. right. tucker: they just kind of didn t know. i think it was over $150 million. frank weister. you just didn t notice that the company he founded is about to go through the regulatory approval process with the agency you run? the clinton foundation spent its money largely to tackle malaria, aids, childhoodap obesity, poverty and women empowerment. tucker: how is that going? have people gotten a lot thinner? millions of people have benefited from this. tucker: [laughs] go to africa. you can laugh here in northwest washington. go to africa. the fact of the matter is so that is a scam. if russians are underwriting that, we pulled one over on them. tucker: can i ask you a question? t my final question because sadly we are out of time. you are going to say with a straight face the guy who founded this country gave over $100 million to hillary s family foundation, that company needs approval from her agency, and yet she was somehow unaware of this?fa on a topic that s inherently important to american national security. my answer is people in the state department were under oath by the republicans in the house and senate and two to one, there has been zero evidence to suggest it got to her attention. let alone she was one of 10. tucker: the fact that her husband was taking half a million dollars in speaking fees from the russians, that didn t come to her attention? either that or you haveol widespread examples. tucker: this is a tough one to defend. i will give you a-minus mostly for effort. thank you, richard, thank you. tucker: victor davis hanson is a fellow at the hoover institution. d professor emeritus at the university of california at fresno. one of the smartest people in the state of california. also author of the second world wars. he joins us now. mr. hanson, thanks for coming on. thanks for having me, tucker. tucker: i think we can both agree and any sober witness to this whole non-scandal over the past 11 months would also agree we haven t found collusion between the putin government and trump campaign. what have we learned from this hysteria over russia? i think we spent 95% of our investigatory resources congressional, independent, media, political and we came up with nothing on the conclusion. collusion.hi 95% of the narrative whether it was the steele dossier which involved taking theel fifth amendment behind closed doors so that devin nunes house intelligence committee or the unmasking and leaking in which one member, who was unmasking claims now that the numbers that were masked did not match the times that she did it, in the case of samantha power. now we have the uranium one deal. we have the podesta deal. so what we are seeing is the investigators are being the investigated and because there was never a collusion and the reason the trump administration begs the question, tucker, was this anger, hysteria? a, as you, i think rightly surmised, anger over the lost election that was blown or b, an effort to overturn the election by impeaching or denigrating trump to such a degree to be ineffective or c, was it a preemptive active effort to disguise a lot of exposure in these scandals that we have talked about? your prior guest was sort of, with all due respect, absurd, his logic is sort of drunk driving is not a threat until you actually kill somebody in a car.ri drunk drivers pose no threat because they haven t killed anybody lately today. and we don t really have 20% of our own uranium.ay we only have about 5%. of that 5%, that s used to generate about 20% of our electricity. so we are dependent on a company that s now controlled by russian interests. we should ask your guest, does he really think that ifif bill clinton went to moscow he would get $500,000 today?es or does he think that the clinton foundation would receive a donation of $145 million today from russian interests? to me, that s absurd. the only reason they got that kind of money, because they had something to offer. that was to green light, as you said, the authority of russian interests to gain control of uranium. they thought it was at least in their strategic interests. all part of the reset effort by the obama administration. tucker: i think it s a great question. richard goodstein has not made it out of our studio yet. i will put him on the screen and pose him the question do you think if he went to moscow today, he would be getting 500 grand for a speech? he is getting money like that all over the place, certainly well past the point that hillary was no longer a candidate. tucker: you really think when you have got a deal of this magnitude and importance going through and the former president, whosepo wife is one of the people signing off on the deal,l, gets half a million dollars for a speech, i think weeo both agree that s insane. the people who pay him ws expect nothing in return? was it insane when ronald reagan got $2 million from a japanese company? tucker: if he gave them 20% of our uranium supply. what you say is and i hate that fox is doing this, doesn t subscribe to the free market. tucker: no, i don t always subscribe to the free market, actually. i think there is such a thing as greed. not every manifestation of capitalism is morally right. some of them are disgusting. prostitution is wrong. that s the market. i m against it. was reagan prosecuting himself? pointing to big dollar numbers of speeches by the president. tucker: do you think it s fair to put ronald reagan in the same category as clinton? no. reagan wasn t selling anything. he was out of office. the whole donation was designated that hillary clinton was secretary of state and likely be president of the united states. you can ask your guest this year, next year or the year after, the clinton foundation is going to get $145 million from russian interests. the answer is no. they had something to sell. that s what they sold. they don t have anything to sell.. so by their own calculation, they have no market value anymore. h the market is adjusted. there is a market, but it s not there is a free market. but what he fails to point out, it s not a crony capitalism market thatre clinton indulges. now they are in the free market and there is no motive to deal with them, so they are not going to make any money. tucker: good point. professor hanson. we re out of time.he thank you for the market lesson. richard, i know you agree. absolutely. tucker: up next, the firman behind the infamous trump dossier is fighting to keep its records secret. why would they be doing that? what would those records reveal? in a minute, we will talk to a lawyer at the center of that case. stay tuned. t over the course of 9 days. steve chooses to walk 26.2 miles, that s a marathon. and he does it with dr. scholl s. only dr. scholl s has massaging gel insoles that provide all-day comfort to keep him feeling more energized. dr. scholl s. born to move. don t take entresto with an ace inhibitor or aliskiren. if you ve had angioedema while taking an ace or arb medicine, don t take entresto. the most serious side effects are angioedema, low blood pressure, kidney problems, or high potassium in your blood. tomorrow, tomorrow. when can we do this again, grandpa? well, how about tomorrow? ask your doctor about entresto and help make tomorrow possible. tucker: remember the trump dossier, the mysterious, totally unverified document that was made public by buzzfeed?si it included both scandalous allegations about donald trump as well as claims that the web company webzilla was a front for russian hacking of the dnc. it was like a parody of a scoop. it was so juicy it had to be true. except it wasn t. since the dossier s release, webzilla and buzzfeed tre battling it out in court, fusion gps, the company that may have created the dossier is fighting efforts to open its books. this week, the company s executives pleaded the fifth f to congress. why would they do that? what could they be hiding? is there an innocent explanation? we have a founding member of a a boston law group representing webzilla in all of this. thanks for coming on tonight. so, this is one of those stories that central to the russia scandal and hysteria around it, maybe the most interesting thing we have seen in the 11 months of all of this and yet undercoverred by the press. bring us up to date really quickly on where we stand now. you re representing a company libeled by the people who wrote this. this how does fusion g.p.s. play into it? fusion g.p.s. is the party that hired christopher steele, the british mss spy who wrote the dossier. it would be interesting to know who was fusion g.p.s. representing in this transaction. in other words, who hired fusion?ng who is fusion s client?? what was the underlying purpose of the work that fusion has done. and so we sent a subpoena ofof our own to fusion, which they are also trying to fight in court in washington. and i understand that their folks took the fifth which tells me you can t take the fifth unless you have air reasonable cause to believe that the evidence you would give would put you in harm s way. so that you would actually be admitting to some kind of a crime and begs the question what is it that they think that they did wrong?ha tucker: maybe that they are protecting they may be protecting the person who paid them. now, i don t know the answer to who paid for this dossier. but i can tell you, which you may know already in washington, is universally believed to be a major republican donor, who was unhappy with trump. do you know, do you have any evidence as to who paid for this? we do not as of yet. we will we are looking for it. but, again, yes, they are clearly trying to protect the identity of their client. how is revealing that identity a crime, however? in other words, pleading the fifth doesn t just youri can t simply plead the fifth because you don t want to reveal some information. have you got to think that so i kind of view this as well, a neighborhood boy was hired to throw a rock from your window and you now want to know who hired him and the bully doesn t want to tell you. that s kind of where i see fusion. tucker: whoever hired fusion gps to do this to hire steele and write this dossier did so in order to derail the trump campaign. would there be another reason you would do this? i don t see another reason, and certainly from my client s lawsuit, this would be actionable important evidence because it s up to us to prove, since we re the plaintiff, that the agencies the allegations are completely false. one way to prove it is to show that the entire motivation for that document was something nefarious. tucker: so i don t understand. this is probably a much longer conversation and we have only got a minute. if you are investigating the russian collusion story andnd you are a congressional committee, or you are robert mueller, wouldn t you want to know who paid for the dossier? wouldn t that be one of yourto first questions? well, of course. from that point of view, maybe the russians paid fusion and, if so, they should admit to it and i suppose then fusion might have a problem with everything, including treason. tucker: that s a good point. we will find out who paid for that dossier. it s going to be fascinating. i m working hard to find out. tucker: thank you, val,l, great to see you tonight. thank you. tucker: nancy pelosi led the democratic party to defeat after defeat after defeat. basically her full-time job. she says getting rid of her would be, of course, sexism. we ll talk with someone who agrees with that next.e, in the modern world, it pays to switch things up. you can switch and save time. [cars honking] [car accelerating] you can switch and save worry. you can switch and save hassle. [vacuuming sound] and when you switch to esurance, you can save time, worry, hassle and yup, money. in fact, drivers who switched from geico to esurance saved hundreds. so you might want to think about pulling the ol switcheroo. that s auto and home insurance for the modern world. esurance. an allstate company. click or call. we re on a mission to show drip coffee drinkers, it s time to wake up to keurig. wakey! wakey! rise and shine! oh my gosh! how are you? well watch this. i pop that in there. press brew. that s it. so rich. i love it. that s why you should be a keurig man! full-bodied. are you sure you re describing the coffee and not me? we see their hunger. their courage. we see their dreams. we see the things that built our nation. and we wonder, what would happen if everyone had equal access to education? what would they discover? what new worlds would they build? that s why we built a university for everyone. southern new hampshire university. tucker: we reported on congresswoman maxine waters many times on this show. it s unbelievable she sits in congress still. t she is corrupt. she doesn t live in her own district. she once cheered on a race riot. because of this, she has become a hero on the left. she is called auntie maxine for her willingness to say anything once the camera goes on. for the record, she is too afraid to do this show. we asked her a number of times. now waters has graduated from impeachment fantasies to, it seems like, assassination fantasies. here she is at an event in new york october 13th of this year. watch. with this kind of inspiration, i will go and take trump out tonight. [cheers and applause] tucker: now, we have called and emailed maxine waters staff for comment on this to see if they can provide additional context for the remark.me maybe we are misinterpreting. we are always open to that possibility. they haven t responded. for some reason, most media aren t badgering waters to explain. we know this because waters was interviewed two hours ago by msnbc. he didn t even bring it up. imagine if this had beenen a year ago and a republican congressman said i look forward to taking out barack obama, how do you think that would have been treated? well, nancy pelosi has taken the democratic party to four straight defeats in u.s. house elections. she has played no small role in the party s defeat last november at the national level which, as you know, was shocking to them.. perhaps it s time shel stepped down and give another leader a shot. but no, pelosi said she has got to remain in office. she has to. not for any reason relating to political vision or acura acumen. pelosi deserves to stay inec charge, she says, because she is a woman. the president invited us to dinner and some of the cabinet members who were at the table. i was the only woman at the table. and that s why i have to stay there to be the one of the top women top people at the table. tucker: cathy areu is the publisher of catalina magazine. she joins us tonight to explain what nancy pelosi meant.at thanks for come on. thanks for having me. tucker: she says you need me because i m a woman.n. leaving aside the fact there are a lot of women to choose from. on the hill. why is her gender essential to the job. that s not the only reason. she has been in political power for 30 years now. she is a great leader. ore she is great at what sheor does. she is a wonderful role model for women. so she didn t exactly say that she can be the only woman at the table. but she happens to be thehe only woman at the table. tucker: she said that t it s important that i m a woman. it s important there is a woman at the table. tucker: why is that important? because of thent demographics of this country. 51% of the country are women.. we should have the demographics of our politics look like our country. tucker: no, that s not true. that s not true? tucker: according too modern progressive orthodoxy there are 63 different genders now. not just men and women. not binary, cathy. keeping up with this stuff. i m sorry.us tucker: i think it s insane, of course. but you are required to believe it. if there are 63 separatete genders. then we should have them all at the table. we should have many genders at the table. w tucker: just same old man, woman, man woman. why shouldn t we give someom other gender. fabulous.wh we should start with having her at the table and let s invite the other genders at the table.e. let s keep nancy pelosi. she is smart. she is great at what she does. the players on her team want her to lead the team. they want her to be the captain. the dnc chair supports her. the chairman supports her. her caucus supports her. tucker: but in real life, look, she held her democrats together for the healthcare vote in the first obama term. that was impressive. i agree with that. very, very. republicans can t do that.t. tucker: you are right. she lost a historic number of seats for doing that she did a good job there.e. she has had no victory since then. you know as well as i, i talked to a congressman about it today. she is not going to get to 218. if democrats win in the midterm, she is not going to i be reelected speaker because she has failed again and t again and again. everyone in d.c. knows that those losses cannot be blamed solely on nancy pelosi. tucker: not solely. so many other factors that play into that. tucker: okay. i mean, look, pulling the woman card is a little bitit weird to me since we live in a moment where we re told as a matter of official orthodoxy, my kids learn this in school, that you cand change your gender just by saying so. okay.ou tucker: so in a world where can you change your gender just by saying so, why is it important to be a specific gender? it s meaningless if you can change it just by saying so, isn t it? so then we should have a woman and all those other genders at the table.o tucker: why is it meaningful to be a woman if a woman can change into a man by snapping his or hero finger, which is what we are supposed to believe. if she leaves, then we have all the men back at the table and we are back 50 years. we need her there. she is a step forward in the right direction. losing her is a step back. tucker: okay, try to put a finer point on this. what about being a woman or a man or a member of the other 61 genders makes you a different and better leader than if you weren t? what inherently about being a woman?? you have a different perspective. you have a different viewpoint. you see things differently. we need as many people to come to the table so we see things differently. that s what our country is made of. w we all just can t be the same white guys sitting around the table because we are afraid to invite anybody else to the table because men happen to be afraid of women in power.e i mean, that s a fact. tucker: democrats are? i live with four of them. i m not afraid at all. no? tucker: i m wondering though.. you are talking about democratso she is not elected by republicans. but the g.o.p. loves to take shots at her. tucker: the republicans doesn t like her. the public doesn t like her. last question. she lives in one of the richest zip codes in the world. just like trump lived. tucker: that s fine. i m not here to defend trump s zip code. i m just asking, do you really think that nancy pelosi represents all women? well, absolutely. she is not bought and paid for by anyone.el tucker: your faith is childlike and impressive. media don t hate trump. they don t like or understand who voted for trump. that s the real story. up next, we will talk to the former head of npr who thought a lot about this and decided to spend a world outside of his world in red state, america. and came up with a very different view than he had going. it s a really interesting story. we will be right back. right as i was stepping into the tee box mentioned a tip a pro gave her. no. yep. did it help? it completely ruined my game. well, the truth is, that advice was never meant for you. i like you. you want to show me your swing? it s too soon. get advice that s right for you. investment management services from td ameritrade. quote: the media have been harder on trump than any other president certainly that i have known about. the big driver of that hostility could be an unprecedented divide between the american media and the country they write about.ca ken stern was ceo of npr national public radio and distinguished member of the liberal bubble himself. as a long-time democrat, he realized he didn t know that many conservativet republicans he did what no one ever does travel country to meet people who think different from them on their e own terms. he has a book out called republican like me. how i left the liberal bubble and learned to love the right. ken stern joins us tonight. what does your family sayet when you say i want to get out there and meet people who vote differently. they thought i was crazy. i live on a nice democratic street in washington, d.c. and my house is 100% democrat. my wife and 10-year-old son was not were not too approving of this notion and i suspect my neighbors weren t either. i went out and reallyg saw a world i didn t know of. and it was remarkable experience. i learned tons about republicans, about the country as a whole. and that s really the source of the book. tucker: we do segments all the time about the divideme and increasingly no one ever talks to anybody they disagree with. what were your first impressions about this new world? one of the impulses for the book was a notion that we have actually become much more geographically and culturally divided than ever before. 10 years ago, there were about 1,000 landslide counties. counties that one party won byby 25% or more. this time, 2500. increasingly dividing ourselves so one side doesn t know the other. i think going in, i had a typical democratic attitude g not very flattering towards republicans. i sat in churches. you sent me pig hunting in texas. tucker: that was my recommendation. recommendation. it was a great recommendation. tucker: meet any liberals pig hunting in texas? h maybe the pigs. but no one else. it was just a remarkable experience. i met people who i never would have met otherwise. led remarkable lives. served their communities. who had deep thoughts about the way their communities and their governments should work. i learned a ton from them. that s really the experience. tucker: funny thing is you told me about this book a couple years ago. i thought it was a really cool idea. now it seems like a completely radical idea that no one would ever do. how do you think having done this and been in the media so long this divide effects the way that we cover news? it seems like most people who work are in the press are from one america but not the other. yeah. i think it s a fair criticism.m i think, so i was at npr for a long time. i still know that the people there try to tell a balanced story. but what i never gave credit for until this time is that they live inside a certain bubble. we all do. and it drives what stories are important and what source they look to. how they think about the story. and it s enormous challenge,e, i think for media. because it means that they don t tell the story of half of the country. i think that s really what s missing from mainstream media. tucker: i think that s right. there is very little cultural diversity. i actually learned something as somebody who has spent his life hunting around guns. i didn t know how often guns were used defensively. yeah. tucker: by law abiding people in this country until i read it from you. it s an interesting thing.op all the issues i plunged into. climate change, poverty programs, and guns, i really learned a lot from people, from experts i wouldn t ordinarily talk to. i talked to john lott about guns and learned enormous amount about them. e gun homicides in this country have gone down by over half in the last 20ic years as the number of guns in this country have gone up. we spend time talking about gun control. we don t actually talk about the things that actually drove gun homicides down over the last 20 years. why don t we talk about that more? the interest of the story, i didn t even know the term defensive gun use before this. and the department of justice ends indicates this happens 60,000 times a year. d florida state study says about a million times a year. tucker: but a lot. either way. high end, low end, it happens a lot. i actually found stories, i told one of them in the new york post this week about o how people use guns to protect themselves.ut it s an important part of the gun story.y. not spoken about very much. tucker: you wrote about a store clerk who repelled a a robber with gunfire. walks out, knocks the guy down with a bullet.re cigarette in his mouth andut says castle doctrine, baby. modern day clinton clint eastwood. tucker: what a great book. good for you doing that i don t know anybody else who would do that in your world. thank you. thank you, tucker, for your help with the book. tucker: i love it. california is about to punish people more than using wrong pronoun than deliberately spreading disease. are you woke enough? that s the next segment. stay tuned. eryone s got to list. when it comes to reducing the sugar in your family s diet coke, dr. pepper, and pepsi hear you and we re working together to do just that. bringing you more great tasting beverages with less sugar or no sugar at all. smaller portion sizes, clear calorie labels, and reminders to think balance. because we know mom wants what s best. more beverage choices, smaller portions, less sugar. balanceus.org radio host he joins us tonight to explain how exactly this works. so, law ethan, thank you for joining us, especially on this topic. thanks, tucker. tucker: law sends a clearus message what our values are. not just who we want to put in jail but who we believe. it is worse to call someone by the wrong pronoun than it is to deliberately infect someone with a fatal disease. that seems like an inverted value structure to me. well, it s not worse. and i m not quite sure where the year is coming from in terms of punishment and, off course, that s up to the judge. but what we have is something called elder abuse is what happens. as our demographics change the law needs to keep up with that. if you want to be called something, shouldn t i as basici human decency, call you what you want to be called. tucker: i do that. that s not what we re talking about. women get married, for example, or whatever. i want to call you whatever you want to be called. that s my view because i m trying to be polite. that s different from the state weighing in and saying if you somehow use the wrong name more than once or t several times or in a way that we consider, quote, persistent, we are going to w punish you more severely than we would if you knowingly gave someone a fatal disease. what the hell? well, so, we have a couple of different issues there. first off, h.i.v. is no longer the fatal disease. when you and i were going living through the 80s and seeing people dying left and right in san francisco, among other places, it was fatal. and now medicine hasn advanced that it s not fatal anymore. we are keeping people alive. t look at magic johnson. tucker: that is true. but if you know people who have h.i.v., i m sure you do i do. i do. tucker: first of all, people do die from it for sure. it s a huge deal, it s a big deal. it makes you really sick. it s super expensive. it s terrible. you can say the same thing about tuberculosis. should we decriminalize the intentional transmission of tuberculosis or malaria? of course not. the only reason you are doing this with h.i.v. is because there is a specific lobby dedicated to achieving this. that s the last government you want to have, one whose laws are written by various lobbies for various reasons. you see where i m going, right? i absolutely see where you are going. and i still disagree with you. what we have here is we have a specific demographic who generally has h.i.v. who is being discriminated againsts and has a tremendous history of discrimination in the united states. otherwise we wouldn t need things like the stonewall riot in the new york city for example. and what s happening. tucker: wait a second, why is it discriminatory? sigmatized by this. tucker: look, i don t care what, quote, demographic you are.e. if you intentionally givee someone an incurable disease, i don t care how much money you give to nancy pelosi, you should be charged with a felony for that. that s ridiculous behavior. i mean, right?, f why are we making excuses for that behavior? because it isn t it s not attempted it s not manslaughter, attempted manslaughter.mo attempted homicide anymore because we are keeping people alive with h.i.v. the medicine has advanced tremendously. tucker: so if i give you tuberculosis, which can be managed with antibiotics, most of the time like h.i.v. which can t always be managed but most of the time. should that be a misdemeanor, too? yeah. morally speaking, why not any std. gonorrhea for that matter. tucker: legally. no, because gonorrhea has nevert had the consequences of h.i.v. or tuberculosis. look, tuberculosis sufferers don t have a lobby, that s the truth hire. as a moral question, do you think it s okay, it shouldn t be a felony to intentionally give someone tuberculosis, is that what you are saying? i think it s wrong, just like you do. but is it a felony? is this something that we should be putting? tucker: to give somebody potentially on purpose. just to be clear. this is on purpose. this is not, you know, diseases are spread accidentally and we understand that.w, through recklessness or carelessness, this is onon purpose. i m trying to give you this disease. that s not a felony. no. it s a misdemeanor in the state of california. we have determined. up to six months in jail for each offense. tucker: i got it. i wasn t for california becoming its own country. i i m getting close. ethan, thank you. up next, the great ainsley earhardt needs no introduction. the star of fox & friends here to discuss her brand new book.r stay tuned. each year sarah climbs 58,007 steps. that s the height of mount everest. because each day she chooses to take the stairs. at work, at home. even on the escalator. that can be hard on her lower body, so now she does it with dr. scholl s orthotics. clinically proven to relieve and prevent foot, knee or lower back pain, by reducing the shock and stress that travel up her body with every step she takes. so keep on climbing, sarah. you re killing it. dr. scholl s. born to move. introducing walit s a great days. for a great deal! tender, center-cut sirloin or chicken on the barbie, fries, a draft beer or a coke, all for just $9.99. only for a limited time. so don t walk, run to outback. it was about what i wanted to teach my daughter. my dad always left me little notes before i left for school. i was pregnant and this book, now that have had the little girl, it s what i m learning through her. through her eyes. we learn through our children. i think my daughter was three months old and i was shopping and flipping through some close at the store. she starts cackling and i turn around and there is a dog behind us. in new york, these ladies take their dogs into the store toto shop. i turn around and my daughter she s so excited. i thought she is seeing a dog for the very first time. how cool is that? we love dogs and animals but i got to witness a human being who happens to be my child, who iit love so much, see dogs for the first time. one time i left my umbrella upstairs. i didn t even know it was raining. i came downstairs. i live on the 16th floor. i come down and it was raining. i am perturbed. now i have to go back upstairs and get the umbrella. i have to turn the stroller around. we are probably late anyway. i m upset about that or kind of upset about it. look at my daughter and she s id wonder. she sees rain and i realized she is seeing rain for the very first time. this is so amazing. i have a better appreciation for rain. tucker: let me say the fact tucker: let me say the fact that in the middle of turning the stroller around, they you could pause and appreciate that. it says a lot about you. you are so nice, tucker. on my cross. tucker: i ve hadd a lot it s hard to appreciate what you re saying. the fact that your daughter likes dogs at such a young age means that she will be a great person. thank you, ainsley earhardt if you want to buy it, go to
and donate some money and get involved, whatever you want to do. we want to thank everybody so much for having us here tonight. tomorrow night paul ryan in washington, tonight, say goodbye, everybody! goodbye! tucker: good evening and welcome to tucker carlson tonight. hurricane armand is one of the strongest terms ever measured in the atlantic ocean and now it s making its way through the caribbean. south florida residents have already been ordered to evacuate, governor rick scott a ford it is warming storm is more powerful in 1992 s hurricane andrew that devastated parts of that state. rick reichmuth is our chief meteorologist at fox, he s been tracking irma since the very beginning, he joins us now. what s it looking like? in the bahamas, i also want to show you, take a look at this, tucker. three hurricanes out there. jose out in the atlantic, that big impacts, or deviations of this will cause a big impacts or less impacts across florida but the best guess at this point is the eastern side of florida certainly having maybe a directed, if not watching the storm go all the way up the shore. very similar to what we saw lester with eric and matthew, maybe making a second landfall somewhere around georgia or south carolina. a lot of oxygen has gone to florida the last of down a couple of days. watching this very closely as well. tucker: can you put this in perspective for us? how big is the storm? so one thing, size of storm, another thing is strength of song. as far as size is probably about a medium-sized hurricane although i think because the pressure is continuing to drop a comment we will probably see it grow in size by the time it gets towards florida. size is one thing, as of right now the strong winds extend out about 50 miles from the center, the hurricane force winds. whether hurricane force winds are isn t a huge area just yet but expect to see that white mount by the time he gets here. this pressure is very low and as far as the strength of those wins, they are extreme. second strongest winds everywhere in the atlantic basin. you were hearing a lot of people say the strongest ever, that is the open atlantic, that is not including the gulf and caribbean. you put that altogether and it s tight for the second strongest wins, the highest we ve ever seen in the atlantic. tucker: thanks a lot for that. hurricane irma made landfall in the u.s. virgin islands today causing widespread damage. in advance of the storm s arrival of the territory s governor ordered the national guard to prepare for the coming catastrophe by suppressing certain constitutional rights. an executive order issued on tuesday, governor kenneth map and powered the guards seize guns and ammunition from citizens, all to maintain public order after the storm. the order echoes a similar one issued by the mayor of new orleans prior to hurricane katrina. the nra is already threatening legal action over that order. the governor joins us now. governor, before we get to the question of your order, give us a quick update on the conditions of the virgin islands tonight. hurricane irma did go through the u.s. virgin islands with the most severe wins and catastrophic wins going through the st. thomas, st. john district, islands. we experienced sustained winds of at least 150 miles an hour with the costs in excess of tha that. we ve had damages to our hospital, fighting stations. a good number of homes have lost their roofs. we are doing that assessment. if we are i think about 20-30-mile-an-hour winds as it makes its way out of the virgin islands so we are doing that assessment. you must really say that the federal partners of fema, the dod, the trump administration, president trump and his team have really been a true good partner and really helping us as we go through this event. tonight we are beginning to mobilize resources into the territory. we will have aircraft landing on the big islands, the airfield has just been cleared to take military aircraft. to position assets. priority in the st. thomas i can st. john district. shelter, nutrition, debris cleanup, hospital e back as we had catastrophic damages in hospital and security. tucker: we are certainly wrong for you, it s a beautiful place. why does confiscating citizens can t make this catastrophe better? let me say, first first of t is just a complete and correct assessment. i did not order or authorize the national guard to seize any weapons from any citizens and i do not have the power by the virgin islands law or by the constitution of the united states to seize weapons from citizens via the military. this order is a standing order that most generals receive. it says it empowers the general to see his arms, ammunition, explosives, incendiary material, it means the general, if they do not have sufficient weaponry, they would go to anyplace like a store that they could buy that stuff, meaning they have the right he has the authorization to spend government resources and acquired. it s different than the same example of one of the government sees his property. we don t seize property without due compensation for the property owner. tucker: i m a little confused. i m reading the order right here and it says that the general is authorized and directed to seize arms, ammunition, explosives and incendiary material. that may be required by military forces. it doesn t say anything in her about taking weapons from citizens we have no authority, i have no authority under the u.s. constitution virgin islands law. you can see in the order it references sections of the virgin islands code. there s no authority in there to seize any property from a citizen, particularly arms or ammunition. our national guard tucker: hold on. i m reading it and it doesn t make any distinction at all between citizens and i don t know walls, noncitizens. that is exactly the point. when you mobilize the national guard the general is authorized to ensure that all of the resources that soldiers require that she has or he has authority to get them. not to go into people s homes and get them but to get them as the government acquires property in the open market. this order, this language, this law is for the mobilization of rollout of national guard units. again i ve read this order twic twice. you re saying this gives them the authority to take weapons that the government and the current dominant virgin islands already owns from armories? let us assume that some circumstances came up at the national guard it needed some munition that was not with an armory. if that munition was available in any retail store, the national guard, the general would not have to go through the procurement process of the government to purchase it, she could go in there and by that right off the rack because she s doing, or he s doing what is required to retrofit the national guard. this is not about seizing anybody s personal property. tucker: so it s not about disarming the population. because as you know, when hurricane hugo rolled through the virgin islands in the late 80s, there was a lot of chaos and violence and law enforcement in the virgin islands were not able to cope with it and people were getting hurt. the u.s. constitution, to seize weapons from anyone. nothing in this order gives any authorization to the national guard. or the general to seize weapons from any citizen. tucker: i appreciate that clarification. we are grateful that you told us what it means. thanks, governor. i ve got to get back to my rescue operations. tucker: i bet you do, thanks for joining us tonight. mark stein is the best-selling author and a frequent guest on the show and he joins us now for reaction to all that. i don t know if you saw that segment with the governor, it s hard to know exactly what he was talking about but he seemed to say that under no circumstances with the national guard be seizing anyone s arms. it was a fantastically obfuscate every interview despite your best efforts. it does make the point by the way, if i was a resident of the u.s. virgin islands i would not be altogether reassured by that performance because i think as we ve seen in the last couple of weeks, the difference between what happened with hurricane harvey and what happened with hurricane katrina is actually the confidence and competence of the local officials there on the ground. i would hope that when he has more pressing aspects of this phenomenon to attend to that he is slightly more clear on what his intention was and the reason for it. tucker: i covered hurricane katrina, i was there right after the storm and the then-mayor of that city, who i think is now in jail, confiscated the guns of citizens in the city and the police melted away the second the levees broke and there was widespread crime, some of it violent and horrible. maybe the lesson is you do need to protect yourself when a catastrophe hits. i think that s absolutely true. i think in the best circumstances it s what we have seen in texas that it s an alliance between the state and individual citizens doing what they can as with the cajun navy and so forth. that is certainly going to be true when it s out in the caribbean. we all know that if a hurricane hits the caribbean you are better off in the bahamas man in haiti when it hits. were better off in barbados than in cuba. the problem here is that that applies to u.s. jurisdictions, too. i hope the u.s. virgin islands comes close on the texas end of these things than the new orleans end of these things. tucker: i hope so, i was a little confused by the end of you. stay with us if you were coming hillary clinton s book is about to come out. she still blaming everyone else but herself for the defeat. we got new excerpts in the book just leaked today, looks pretty interesting actually. immigration activists all teaming up to denounce the decision on daca yesterday. what motivates their outrage, we talked to two supporters of daca just ahead to try and find out. each year sarah climbs 58,007 steps. that s the height of mount everest. because each day she chooses to take the stairs. at work, at home. even on the escalator. that can be hard on her lower body, so now she does it with dr. scholl s orthotics. clinically proven to relieve and prevent foot, knee or lower back pain, by reducing the shock and stress that travel up her body with every step she takes. so keep on climbing, sarah. you re killing it. dr. scholl s. born to move. wherwhere we always welcome you, that s texas.exas. where we always find a way, that s texas. experience amazing. when itrust the brandtburn, doctors trust. nexium 24hr is the number one choice of doctors and pharmacists for their own frequent heartburn. and all day, all night protection. when it comes to heartburn, trust nexium 24hr. investigation of the russians. i also think i was the victim of a very broad assumption i was going to win. it is all the storm is about guys over in macedonia who are running these fake news sites. tucker: i was the victim, you can sum it up in that phras phrase. hillary clinton last may laying blame everywhere except for herself for her defeat in 2016. her book length take on that campaign which is called what happened. it s about to come out and she changed her thinking, apparently not. she d take some responsibility for defeat apparently but later falls back on blame, of course, sexism, for unpopularity. what makes me such a lightning rod for fury? i m really asking, i m at a loss. i think it s partly because i m a woman. mark steyn has written many books that do not involve blaming others for his problems. he joins us tonight. do you feel people discriminate you because you are a man? i blame you, tucker. as far as i can see it you are about the only person that hillary clinton hasn t blamed. i don t know how. this is extraordinary to me. every hurricane from hurricane be to hurricane see including hurricane bernie, hurricane fighting, hurricane macedonia, hurricane sexism, have all just gathered to me continuously for two years. it s extraordinary to me that the democrats have not had a quiet word and say i know that you need a new book but why don t you just to hillary clinton, tips on being a grandmother, hillary clinton cookbook, anything would be better than just revisiting. it must be the only people it s good for, as you say she blamed the macedonian content farmers, and it must be good for macedonian tourism like new zealand after lord of the rings came out. there must be people booking vacations in macedonia right now saying i ve got to see it it s a pilgrimage for the people who took out the most inevitable presidential candidate in history. if macedonia is fully booked i will go up to burlington, vermont, and see bernie sanders. tucker: she wasn t going to write deep thoughts by hillary clinton, the shortest book ever written. have you noticed how the most entitled people often see themselves as victims? this is someone for whom, who obviously didn t become the nominate on the strength of her own achievements, which were i don t know, what? wrecking libya. i don t understand why she sees herself as put upon it when i think objectively she is just the opposite. i think that s why people did not warm to her, because she was the entitled candidate. she felt like she was owed it for having suffered through being married to bill clinton and being in the white house for bill clinton. i don t think people were sexist about her and i don t think people anywhere in the developed world i sat through prime minister s questions in the australian parliament a couple years ago when the female prime minister juliet was being hammered by the deputy leader of the opposition, julie bishop, now the foreign minister. they were going at it, hammer and tongs, they were both women who have reached the summit of their respective parties on their own merits. what nobody liked about hillary clinton was that she was not an obvious candidate except in the sense that she felt she was entitled to be the candidate. tucker: thought it was a hereditary deal. i wonder going forward if you see hillary clinton as the standard-bearer for the democratic party ten years from now. is there hillary -isms. does any part of her indoor? i think the opposite. i think that s where they attack on bernie sanders is not going to work for her. whatever you feel about it, the democrats are trending in a bernie-like direction, that s where the enthusiasm is. i think there s absolutely no doubt in that respect that the party is moving left and hillary has no ideological or philosophical worldview that s going to outlast her candidacy. that was true from the vet. the african pain. she calls him out the bernie, the one whose promising everybody a free pony, whatever you feel about that, bernie sanders is with the democrats are headed and they will barely remember they hillary candidacy. tucker: at the date point, that s exactly right. i want my pony. thank you as always. satellite, tucker! tucker: saddle up, giddy up up! much of the republican establishment all in an uproar over the presidents suspension of daca. we will talk to to supporters of that program and have brit hume break down the political situation. we will be right back. go your own way copd tries to say, go this way. i say, i ll go my own way with anoro. go your own way once-daily anoro contains two medicines called bronchodilators, that work together to significantly improve lung function all day and all night. anoro is not for asthma . it contains a type of medicine that increases risk of death in people with asthma. the risk is unknown in copd. anoro won t replace rescue inhalers for sudden symptoms and should not be used more than once a day. tell your doctor if you have a heart condition, high blood pressure, glaucoma, prostate, bladder, or urinary problems. these may worsen with anoro. call your doctor if you have worsened breathing, chest pain, mouth or tongue swelling, problems urinating, vision changes, or eye pain while taking anoro. ask your doctor about anoro. go your own way get your first prescription free at anoro.com. to make something original. .has grown into an enterprise. that s why i switched to the spark cash card from capital one. now, i m earning unlimited 2% cash back on every purchase i make. everything. which adds up to thousands of dollars back every year. .and helps keep my passion growing. .in every direction. what s in your wallet? is intact, microsoft has already announced it will fight as hard as possible to block the deportation of illegal immigrants hired at the expense of american citizens because of course microsoft is now its own country. what drives all this anger ang? the editor in of reason, the libertarian publication. welcome to you both. catherine, since you are a libertarian, let me ask a philosophical question, do we have an obligation to put the interest of american citizens ahead of the interests of immigrants? no, i don t think so. in particular tucker: american citizens don t give priority? i don t think those things were in conflict. and it s fair to ask the question though. in general if you don t think that american citizens ought to get meaningful priority over aliens. i don t know if this means to say meaningful priority over aliens. american citizens benefit when people come here come over here and raise families here. it is absolutely the case that these dreamers in particular are going to add to our economy, add to our culture, make america a better place. tucker: none of that is necessarily true. those are massive assumptions that in some cases are true in some cases are false. if you could determine in a specific case if there s one job and you have a choice between someone who came here illegally and someone who was an american citizen, wouldn t automatically go for the american citizen? you could ask similarly do i feel favor protectionist policies. is it more important for the chapter beer. tucker: i vehemently disagree with you i want the viewers to know what your position is on that. there are a ton of unemployed americans. i think we could all agree a lot more of them ought to be working than art. why would we be issuing any work permits to anybody from outside the country until those people have jobs? i think i have more faith in the american people maybe in folks who think they need a hand up or a special place at the front of the line. i think americans are exceptional. i think we produce exceptional people who can compete with folks that are coming into the country. tucker: they are unemployed right now is what i m saying. i thought liberals were care about that. some folks obviously what is to say we should favor people were unemployed over people who currently have a job. i think that you get to a place when we are trying to create classes of people that when we permit that to happen that ultimately swings away from our favor. tucker: it s really simple. we have a lot of people around the world who want to come here and work in the united states for a bunch of different reasons. we also have a bunch of american citizens who were born here who do not have jobs, were not working. that s bad. why would we get any work permits to people from other countries while we still have americans who aren t working, i don t understand? i think in this case we already done it. 800,000 kids who only know this country, who have these work authorizations and we are about taking them away. you want to talk about what drives my anger. tucker: where talking about continuing it. no one disputes, it s a tough question. i don t want to oversimplify. tucker: i know that you are a caring person. tucker: i actually care about americans more than i care about illegal aliens. it makes me pro-american and i don t understand why nobody seems to care. the idea that the more immigrants we have, the better off we are. if that s true then why isn t california richer? california is poor than it was 40 years ago when it was totally overwhelmed by immigration. surely you know that the only thing happening in california in the last decades was not immigration. when you think about tucker: because of immigration. it swung the legislature to the left. we are talking about mostly mexicans, right? 80% mexican. where talking about safe 500,000 mexicans, lower rates of incarceration, higher rates of education. they contribute, they are a typical dreamer. tucker: that s not true. that s not true. have to have a high school education to qualify for the program. where talk about daca here. tucker: that s totally false. where talking about the dreamers here. there is an absolute very, very clear situation here in which these people are the kind of immigrants that even people like you who are essentially restriction nests should like. i ve already been assimilated. tucker: some are not individuals. people are nervous because of chain immigration. you let one person and all of those relatives, too. that s a real thing. what s an appropriate level of immigration into this country, how many people should we let in? come crazy but i believe in the american ideal that we are a place for people who are downtrodden, abused can come tucker: so everybody wants to come? what s the limit? we have systems that are broken, an asylum system. we need to focus on fixing those things. tucker: how many should we let in? it s not a hard question. like how many? we could get to a billion people by the end of the century really easily. if we had a billion people in america america would be unstoppable. that would be amazing. think about driving force think about the economy. tucker: you noticed that our economy has become less impressive over the last 40 years. the main thing that has happened is the mask change due to immigration. you don t see the connection. do you think it s even remotely, possibly true that a bunch of people who came here, brought by their parents, median age six years old cornell 22 years old and have jobs that pay, i don t know, $18 an hour, that s the problem with america? i don t think that s the problem. i think our broader immigration service doesn t serve american citizens. we are out of time. thank you. planned parenthood even date and weighed in daca because every left-wing organization must express the same views on everything. the president asked why and why statement. here at planned parenthood we firmly believe that every person has the right to live. [laughs] apparently the batteries and planned parenthood s irony detectors failed. brit hume joins us now. i think this actually is its complicated question, what to do with all these people but i don t think there is a complicated debate in process. i see a lot more outrage and screaming and yelling and name-calling. when we have a real debate? first of all, i take your point about planned parenthood talk about everyone having a right to live. tucker: pretty wonderful. pretty hard not to choke on that. beyond that, what strikes me besides the melodrama, if you look at it for longer than just a few seconds to realize a couple of things. one is, of course, that this dreaded event is not going to happen. if it ever does come another six months, which means congress has time to legislate this if it will. at the president opens a huge trapdoor in the whole thing what he said yesterday that if congress doesn t act he s prepared to revisit the issue. it s pretty clear that he doesn t want to do this. he felt for whatever reason, not least probably the fact that daca s constitutionality is deeply suspect, that he needed to draw a line. it seemed clear to me that if congress does not act that he s not going to do this. he s not going to go forward with it, he will delay. built into what he proposed anyway, the potential for delay in individual cases and so on. my guess tonight is that none of these 800,000 or so will ever be deported. tucker: i would bet my car on that. more broadly, and it s still early, the president is not turning out to be as tough on immigration of a lot of his critics beard and supporters hoped. that s right. i think you would like to get something for his willingness to go along with the signing of a bill that would make daca legal. maybe he would like to get some wall funding or other measures to toughen up our border enforcement. that sounds like the shape of the kind of compromise that used to be common in washington. tucker: is that even possible now? you think it would be, on paper it looks like it should be. but in this pluralized atmosphere in which we are operating nobody wants to give . he could maybe make a deal with some democrats located on these budgetary matters in the hurricane relief funding and the debt limit, which is a short term real which is being looked at which was just reached today, looked at kind of like an outright win for nancy pelosi and chuck schumer, the democratic leaders in the two houses. that used to be the kind of thing that went on all the time but in recent years it s been less likely the case. i think it s anybody s guess. i still think that even if they can t make a deal that he will yield on this, that he will not go forward. tucker: a lot of hysteria has been wasted. i think you re right. this is typical of the pattern with the trim coverage. it is the job of journalists to show the american people want this president really is like and all about. straightforward reporting will do the job. journalists seem not content with that. there comments at the washington post and elsewhere that might essentially the same post over and over again reminding us about trumps personal characteristics, even some more going along with him have long recognized. i think the job is basically done and they can t let it alone. tucker: think it would he was like when he voted for him. i haven t not read that paper here and i m never reading it again. the latest work for the washington post, thank you. get a job, don t use drugs, those are values that used to define america. they are still values to follow, why is a professor being threatened for saying it out loud? plus, and update, an important one on black lives matter and its response to hurricane harvey in houston. an amazing story, stay tuned for that. to most people, i look like most people. but on the inside, i feel chronic, widespread pain. fibromyalgia may be invisible to others, but my pain is real. fibromyalgia is thought to be caused by overactive nerves. lyrica is believed to calm these nerves. i m glad my doctor prescribed lyrica. for some, lyrica delivers effective relief for moderate to even severe fibromyalgia pain. and improves function. lyrica may cause serious allergic reactions, suicidal thoughts or actions. tell your doctor right away if you have these, new or worse depression, unusual changes in mood or behavior, swelling, trouble breathing, rash, hives, blisters, muscle pain with fever, tired feeling, or blurry vision. common side effects: dizziness, sleepiness, weight gain, swelling of hands, legs and feet. don t drink alcohol while taking lyrica. don t drive or use machinery until you know how lyrica affects you. those who ve had a drug or alcohol problem may be more likely to misuse lyrica. with less pain, i can do more with my family. talk to your doctor today. see if lyrica can help. oh, you yeah!ht butch. (butch growls at man) he s looking at me right now, isn t he? yup. (butch barks at man) butch is like an old soul that just hates my guts. (laughs) (vo) you can never have too many faithful companions. introducing the all-new crosstrek. love is out there. find it in a subaru crosstrek. than this summer. why? because right now we re seeing our average customer save $20,000. but with the fed already talking about raising rates, this window will not last for long. lendingtree is the only place to compare up to 5 real refinance offers against your current mortgage - for free. are you sure you have the best rate? take 3 minutes and find out right now. because at lendingtree, when banks compete, you win. tucker: amy wax of the university of pennsylvania and larry alexander of the university of california in san diego at la jolla. both law professors, they just released an essay in which they say america is paying the price for the breakdown of the country s bourgeois culture. all cultures are not equal, they wrote. bourgeois values which promote hardware, patriotism and responsible child-rearing are conducive for the success in modern environment. what is, antisocial habits prevalent among working-class whites, the antiwhite culture of inner-city blacks. those don t work, the authors say. now they are being threatened for saying that. larry alexander joins us tonight. thanks for coming on. thank you for having me, tucker. let me make one correction in the intro. i don t teach at the university of california in san diego, i teach at the university of san diego. tucker: ust! at the law school. we have a law school, they don t. tucker: good for you. okay, professor at the university of san diego. did i mischaracterize the point of your paper? our point was essentially as you represented it. my fear when we wrote this was the people were just going to shrug and say that is so obvious, he really didn t need to say it, it s just sober now, as you noted that hasn t been the reaction from all corners. tucker: what has the reaction been? interest income at the reaction at university of pennsylvania professor wax teaches has been extraordinary. she was condemned by some of her colleagues not because they took issue with any particular thing that we said in the op-ed, she was just condemned for essentially saying what we said. there were no allegations that anything we said was incorrect. next we went in other words, truth in the academy is no longer a defense, is that the point? that s true. because what s more important is to signal that you are on the side of the good guys, even if that means denying something that is true. it s a matter of are you in the in group or the outgroup. tucker: if you have academics knowingly denying things they know are true, isn t that the definition of corruption? yes, unfortunately it is. almost every person who took umbrage at what we said in the academy actually practices the very virtues we were asked only in the piece. they teach their kids this. they don t teach their kids the opposite of what we ve prescribed. tucker: that s exactly right. i live in a neighborhood full of liberals who don t get divorced and go to bed at 10:00 p.m., whose kids are obedient. why do you think this was so offensive and? you are describing the lives if they lead, why would they be outreach? there may be three hypotheses for why some people don t do well in the country. one is they just black and native talent and ability, another is their behavior is not conducive to doing well and the third is that there are structural impediments to their doing well. it s just orthodoxy now in some corners in the academy and outside the academy for that matter that it s the latter that has to be true, it s not the first to tell mike to go. what we are saying is no, that s not the case. tucker: and orthodoxy is always the enemy of toothed tell my truth. we are out of time, i appreciate your bravery, thanks for doing that and thanks for coming on. you re welcome. tucker: coalition of conservative groups demanding the press stop attending the southern poverty law center is an authoritative, or objective, source for who is a hate group and who is not. we will talk to the head of one of those groups next. asked you these questions? i had never met anybody from the navy that s why i was, like, asking you all kinds of questions. yeah. i honestly didn t know what the marines did. everybody s experience is unique. you got musicians, you have cooks, you have admin people. i just think people should be more open minded. just get to know the person. yes. they should know this? yeah. the guy was my brother-in-law. that s ridiculous. well, i happen to know some people. do they listen? what? they re amazing listeners. nice. guidance from professionals who take their time to get to know you. footage right here of the march in progress. there is, pretty inspiring. we will keep following this breaking story as it continues. as we told you before on the show and documented pretty conclusively, the southern poverty law center is a progressive active activist group like hundreds of others but for some reason the media have anointed them the national arbiter for what is or what is not a hate group, which is a shame since they are totally fake and dishonest. now 47 conservative leaders and organizations have released a letter calling on the media to stop citing the southern poverty law center and its fake data calling it discredited and defamatory. tony perkins of the president of the family resource council, once the victim of a terrorist attack by the rhetoric. he joins us tonight. thanks for joining us tonight. if i m not misunderstanding that you are attempting to convince media to stop taking this fake group seriously, correct? in part. we re putting me on notice that if you re going to take them on, liberal activist organization that acts as a pitfall for the left. no offense to pitfalls out ther there, they are endangering the lives of people by putting up this information from the southern law center which has no basis in fact. tucker: to call someone i hate group is to lump them in with nazis and crazy people and violent people, truly scary people. that s what they did for the first two decades of their hate list. two years into the obama administration when it was open season on christian organizations that were opposing obama administration, that s when they started adding christian groups to their list and they started popping up in 2010 when president obama unleashed his hostility towards religion and the secretary of state hillary clinton was taking the same agenda overseas. tucker: you would think that any normal reporter, the matter how liberal, looking through the list of hate groups, so-called hate groups, some of them are clearly hateful and crazy and then they get to the family research council and say i may not agree with our agenda but they are not a hate group. why does nobody at, say cnn the washington post, think this is overreached. it s not a hate group, it s a christian group. it s acquired thinking. there s a bigger agenda behind this. the former spokesman for the southern poverty law center, mark, he made very clear, he said we don t have any objective criteria here. this is not based on criminality or violence. we are trying to wreck the groups, we are trying to destroy the groups. this is, again the last pitbull going after those who oppose the agenda. the media needs to be put on record knowing that that s what s behind the splc. tucker: it s just so dishonest. it s like treating media matters like a legitimate media analysis group, which the press also did until they were called on it repeatedly. have you had any response from media organizations to your letter? not really. the conservative groups, conservative media that understands what the splc is up to, yes, they are publishing it. others not so much. here s the thing, tucker. they now know they have no excuse when there s another attack like we saw against republicans, the congressman or the attack on the frc five years ago, the media has become complacent in this violence was inspired by the southern law center. i hate that garbage. tony, thank you so much. if you want to have a good time go watch the goonies, but a start from that movie, martha plimpton says abortion in seattle can be a great time too. she actually said that. we will show you the very latest from martha plimpton, it will blow your mind. wherwhere we always welcome you, that s texas.exas. where we always find a way, that s texas. our guests can earn a free night when they book at choicehotels.com and stay with us just two times? fall time. badda book. badda boom. pumpkin spice cookie? i m good. book now at choicehotels.com i m living that yacht life, life, life top speed fifty knots life on the caribbean seas it s a champagne and models potpourri on my yacht made of cuban mahogany, gany, gany, gany, gany watch this don t get mad (bell mnemonic) get e trade and get invested tucker: the goonies is a light family movie made in the simpler times before politics affects us liberally in every american light. one actress in the movie was martha plimpton. she is now grown up. she was in a pro-abortion rally in seattle. yes, they do exist. at the rally, plimpton said this. i had my first abortion at the seattle planned parenthood. yay! notice i said first. i said first and i don t want seattle, i don t want you guys to feel insecure. it was my best one. [laughter] tucker: a lot of things you could say about that. it s gross and disturbing distt
donald trump jr. released a string of is these during the presidential campaign. this follows a report about these exchanges. though most of the communications were one sided, trump junior did interact on a number of occasions. wikileaks told him, quote, a the r.a.c. is a recycled pro-iraq war pac. we have guessed the password, it is putintrump. done responded, off the record, i don t know who that is boo but i ll ask around, according to te atlantic he did ask around, including trump s son-in-law jared kushner, telling them wikileaks had reached out. we don t know in what context he was saying that, but kushner forwarded that e-mail onto hope hicks. in a separate exchange, done junior reached out october 23rd asking wikileaks about an impending release writing what s behind the wednesday leak i keep reading about? wikileaks didn t respond, but just four days later it released john podesta s e-mails on the same day as you ll recall the u.s. intelligence community condemned russia for using wikileaks to release the stolen e-mails. even is it that, wikileaks reached out again suggesting done junior tweet out a link to his formals to search the leaked podesta e-mails. john jury tweeted out this. for those who had the time to read about the hypocrisy, all the wikileaks e-mails are right here. and he included the link that wikileaks had given him. pam, explain what the campaign was saying about wikileaks during this time period. so wikileaks was communicating with done junior. and behind the scenes, done junior tweeted out the link. mike pence said on fox news the campaign was not in cahoots with wikileaks. take a listen. final question about wikileaks, and that is some suggested on the left that all this bad stuff about hillary, nothing p.a. bad about trump. but your campaign is in a ka hoots with wikileaks. nothing could be further from the truth. i think all of us have, you know, have concerns about wikileaks over the years, and it s just the reality of america. life today and the wider world, but it doesn t change the fact that you see the national media chasing after unstanchuated allegations. so just in the last hour, the have the s spokesperson released a statement that reads the vice president was never aware of anyone associated with the campaign being in contact with wikileak wikileaks. donald trump jr. released these exchanges tonight after the atlantic story broke. any more reaction from him or his legal team? his attorney did release a at the same time before he actually released these exchanges. his attorney said we can say with confidence we have no concerns about these documents and any concerns about them have been easily answered in the appropriate forum. as you ll recall, done junior went behind cloed doors with the judiciary committee. at that time they did not have these exchanges. but someone asked him have you ever had communications with wikileaks, and the source familiar says he applied, yes, i have, and then talked about these messages. after that, the direct messages were handed over to congress. pamela brown, thank you very much. this reporting about donald trump jr., what does it tell you, and does it surprise you that donald trump jr. was willing to direct message with somebody he didn t know on the other side of a direct message from wikileaks weather, it was julian assange and think he s having off-the-record discussions? for a businessman, doesn t that just seem moronic? it takes your breath away, anderson. when i read the story earlier theengs, i was shaking my head. i have actually defaulted to the explanation of inexperience and naïveté when it comes to some of the campaign s behavior with regard to russia and wikileaks. there s probably still a fair amount of that, but i have to tell you, these continued discovers and particularly this one, i have to begin to ask the question were there any limits? was there any sense of appropriateness? was there any sense of propriety? were there any lines beyond which the campaign would not go? i m not talking about it as a legal matter. i ve got no expertise on that. i m asking a question of ethics and american political culture. and there doesn t seem to have been any limits here. the fact that according to the atlantic on october 12th, wikileaks reaches out to donald trump jr. thanking him for his father, saying something nice about them. i think he said i love wikileaks at rally, and suggesting his dad tweeted a link with the podesta e-mails, donald trump jr. doesn t respond, but 15 minutes later from the time the message is evidence is, donald trump sr. tweets. and then two days later trump junior tweets out the very link the wikileaks asked him to tweet out. is it possible it s a coincidence that 15 minutes after wikileaks tweets his son that his father does it? to answer your question specifically, is it possible? sure. i suppose that s possible. do i believe that to be the case? i don t think so. there are two things that come out. one from the wikileaks side. very important, anderson. they are quite clear they are in this business to support the donald trump campaign. there s no other purpose revealed in the wikileaks side of the exchange of communications. and then there are several examples in your time line, the one you just brought up being one of them, certainly examples where the campaign clearly synchronized its actions with the actions of wikileaks. wikileaks even then was known to be hostile to the united states and has already been pointed out in your show tonight. mike pompeo has declared it to be a hostile nonstate intelligence service. this is the third person associated with the trump team that reportedly reached out to wikileaks. roger stone said he was communicating with cambridge an lit ca. maybe collusion with a small c in the political cultural sense. anderson, let s be very candid. the campaign was talking to wikileaks about stolen goods, stolen american privacy. wikileaks had e-mails for which they were not the intended recipient. someone stole them and now we re going to violate american privacy and the campaign was, frankly, excited about that, the continuous quote during the campaign, i love wikileaks. marco rubio pointed out during the campaign that s not a good idea. we re going to regret saying that someday, and i think he s right. if the october 12th communication where wikileaks said your dad should tweet this thing out and 15 minutes later donald trump sr. tweets out basically saying the dishonest media isn t paying attention, if you believe that donald trump jr. contacted his dad or was with his dad and said, oh, wikileaks is pushing this, then the idea that donald trump jr. did not contact his dad after sitting with a russian attorney allegedly from the kremlin informing donald trump jr. that the kremlin is supporting his dad s campaigns and has date of birth on hillary clinton, the idea that he doesn t tell his father that seems hard to believe if one believes that he did tell his father 15 minutes after wikileaks texted him. added evidence to that, the current president, the candidate at that time made a reference during that time period about making the speech within a week that would reveal an awful lot of dirt on hillary clinton, so there s more truly circumstantial evidence that there was synchronization between the campaign and wikileaks. remember, this was a group wikileaks whose leader was likely already under indictment in the united states of america for what he had done previously with american secrets. i have to ask you about the president s comments that both were sympathetic to vladimir putin s point of view calling three officials at the time political hacks. you were concerned about president trump had to say that you actually called the cia, your former agency to confirm they stood by their assessment about russia and the 2016 election. yeah, anderson, i suspected that somebody from the network would call me and i wanted to have a view. and i really wanted to be able to say the agency stood by the intelligence community assessment. so i contacted them early saturday morning and very quickly they responded very clearly the agency and director pompeo stood by the assessment that the russians did it. the president walked that back a little bit the next day, but you know, anderson, at the end of that exchange he said he has faith in the intelligence community as currentlily constituted, and that statement burned up most of the good will that the front end of the president s statement created when he said i believe american intelligence. general hayden, appreciate your time. now the panel. ana in ana, what do you make of these communications? it makes you ask the question what does mueller know we still don t know? every single day a shoe seems to drop. it s hard to justify done junior didn t tell his father about the meeting. donald trump was in that tower the same day the meeting occurred. the fact that he tweeted 15 minutes after his son got that tweet makes people question whether or not that was accurate. also remember wikileaks came across as an objective news site. we got from these direct messages with don junior that why doesn t he release tax returns through us so we can put it out so it did you want look like we re pushing anti-hillary clinton stuff that we re against both candidates at times. they contact with donald trump jr. after the meeting breaks saying i m sorry for what you re going through, why don t you give us your e-mails, we ll put them out, and that will help us, make us look more credible, but donald trump jr. ignores that. exactly. what i would really focus on as well is how quickly the vice president s office responded. back in june he hired his personal attorney. this is second time that he said something hast not true. within an hour you hear a response from him. he has his own attorney that he hired in june with regards to any matters related to the russia investigation. he s taking this seriously. we re just waiting for the president to respond as well. was this smart for donald trump jr. to be in communications with wikileaks? we re talking about speculation. let s wait for the facts to bear out. it s important for mueller to conduct his investigation. was that smart? if i was in communication i would tell people. which he did. he sent out the e-mail and it just continued. doesn t show donald trump was being proactive. that s not a direct. i think he sends it to kellyanne conway and steve bannon. you want to disclose when someone comes forward with information that s suspect. no one called kauld the fbi. that s their vetting campaign? you have question their judgment sfwluf to question the information that came in, but you have to acknowledge the fact that don did triefrl, reach out to senior management and say these people are reaching out to me. and the manager goes from there. he continued to communicate with them. he was communicating events, news of the day. that conversation had been in the news for two days. he s not going to disclose what s in the common thread of the conversation. brian? you worked on campaigns. does this make sense to you? one damning revelation does not a criminal case make. the trump tower meeting itself isn t going to produce an indictment. the bad facts are piling up. the territory available for trump defenders to make a case is shrinking by the day. this is another clear indication of the campaign s willingness to collude. donald trump jr. is eager to engage in this chain with wikileaks. it s fluctuation the campaign s actions. donald trump jr. is basically taking orders about his twitter activity, not to mention the candidate himself touting wikileaks in the moments after this tweet was received. it widens the circle of people potentially indicated. so all those people i suspect they ve been brought into the grand jury or given an interview already. the circle has widened, the more of these bad facts that come out, they re only incriminating, not exculpatory. it suggests they have a lot to hide. jason, does it feel to you like every now and then we learn more and more about communications that donald trump jr. had? when mueller who has access to all the e-mails, what else there might be? i feel like we re viewing everything that happened in 2016 through a 2017 lens. when we re talking about these dates, there was a lot of back and forth and people weren t sure who was behind the wikileaks. one of the things to keep in mind, you get an outreach from wikileaks, these guys clearly have a lot of tactics and techniques they re using online. you don t want to miss these guys off, so you wouldn t want to go and blow them off, fine, i ll check and play nice. why would you pick a fight with wikileaks in that moment when you know they re involved with all this stuff. at that point in the campaign, the only thing we had seen with the fbi is they were basically, from the view of the campaign, seemed like they were in secretary clinton s pocket. he went that happened with the fbi and the doj with loretta lynch, that didn t seem like the safest place to go. i m on twitter and i got direct messages from people i don t know. you don t have to respond. you don t have to i m sure some nice people or nasty people have reached out to me. you can just ignore them. if you get an e-mail from wikileaks and you re not a reporter, you re on a campaign, and there s stuff floating out there, it s not an we didn t have to respond. he couldn t just pretend, sorry, wikileaks, i never got your message. and then he can t he can mute them. at one point he said what is this news of a potential leak i m hearing about. it went beyond it didn t seem like a relationship he was trying to develop or foster. through all of this there s nothing that don junior did illegal here. i m not seeing anything that was at all illegal and i haven t heard in fact panelists or experts that have come on seems like he s getting unfairly beat. up you would want a guy running an international business to be responding to anonymous people who are direct messaging him and telling them this conversation s off the record? for a guy who s in international business, i know nothing about business, i couldn t run the cooperation he runs, that seems moronic to me. that goes to your earlier point that they viewed themselves as a news agency, otherwise that s why he let me tell you how republicans viewed julian assange, they viewed him as a traitor and a national security threat. this is the part that board they the most. we knew about russia that they re dr. dao trying to tear america apart, race, everything. and the part where they direct message don junior and say if your dad loses it would be nice if he didn t concede and challenged the media and other types, saying that the game was rigged. what they re trying to do, like russian cutout, i don t know how directly involved russia is, but it seals like this could have been very bad for america if trump lost and refused to concede. it would have torn the country apart even more. later, the growing calls from washington republicans for their senate candidate in alabama, roy moore to leave the race. each year sarah climbs 58,007 steps. that s the height of mount everest. because each day she chooses to take the stairs. at work, at home. even on the escalator. that can be hard on her lower body, so now she does it with dr. scholl s orthotics. clinically proven to relieve and prevent foot, knee or lower back pain, by reducing the shock and stress that travel up her body with every step she takes. so keep on climbing, sarah. you re killing it. dr. scholl s. born to move. it can detect a threat using ai, and respond 60 times faster. it lets you know where your data lives, down to the very server. it keeps your insights from prying eyes, so they re used by no one else but you. it. is. the cloud. the ibm cloud. the cloud that s designed for your data. ai ready. secure to the core. the ibm cloud is the cloud for business. yours. my hygi.a mouthwash.o try. so i tried crest. it does so much more than give me fresh breath. crest pro-health mouthwash provides all. .of these benefits to help you get better dental check-ups. go pro with crest mouthwash. checkup? nailed it the amazing new iphone 8 is at at&t. and we know you ll love it. because we know you want more. more great camera features and more power. and more than just unlimited data, we give you unlimited plans with hbo included for life. because you deserve more entertainment. and more spokespeople. talking like this, saying the word more. at&t. it s time for more. am i too close? i feel like i m too close. get the iphone 8 and with all at&t unlimited plans, get hbo for life. only from at&t. julian assange has weighed in on the news. he tweeted, i cannot confirm the alleged dms from donald trump jr. wikileaks doesn t keep such records and it clearly doesn t have the full context. however, even those published by the atlantic showed that one, wikileaks loves its pending publications. number two, wikileaks can be effective at convincing even high-professional people that it is their interest to promote links to its publications. it s the kind of stuff where you say you can t make this stuff up. he is the weakest link and also the one that the russian lawyer contacted to say, hey, i got dirt that we can share with you there s obviously a sense that we re dealing with twiddle dumb. hi, we have something to tell you, the simple ways that they talk, the language, says they thought going after trump junior was an effective fishing mechanism, and it worked. i think the overwhelming amount of circumstantial evidence means you have to suspend disbelief. it goes back to the point that this mushroom cloud keeps growing and growing and it s not going away. and at some point bob mueller s going to come out with the facts. brian? i would say this. less than two weeks ago you had senator feinstein asked does she collusion and her answer was no. so we have a lot of conjecture and slopness on the campaign. when we have one of the top intelligence persons of the democratic party saying she says no clurks i tend to believe her. it s a lot of noise, a lot of mistakes were made, but nothing to the point where it s criminal and nothing to the point where a democratic senator sees collusion. that s powerful and thagz that gets lost in this conversation. david said it s going to be harder and harder for wikileaks to adjust itself as a credible news organization. you see they were, in fact, rooting for donald trump and giving him advice as to what to do so they would look more objective and dish on both sides. throughout all of this wikileaks said they had not taken or colluded or been involved with russia at all and pushing forward any e-mails it s harder and harder to justify them and take them seriously given what we ve seen. e-mails forwarded to hope hicks during the campaign, she was with candidate trump all the time, wasn t she? when lewandowski was running the campaign, it would be the candidate, lewandowski and hicks. is that in order to get an e-mail to candidate trump at the time? frequently hope would be traveling with the president, but i don t know on that particular day where people were or if that was to give her a heads up in case there s a media inquiry. to the point brian made about the conjecture, it s even more than the last couple weeks. over this past year there s been an investigation into this so-called collusion between the campaign and a foreign entity. there s still no proof anyone on the campaign was colluding. mike pence has come out twice, he s been prodded out to be like the kindly face of this and say i can t believe, the media is going after this thing going down at a rabbit hole. an hour later he comes out saying we had no idea about this report. we just learned about it from this report. apparently they believe this report because they re responding to it. given how little we know about the mueller probe, we know there s at least one guilty plea and one cooperate helping the federal investigators working this case. they ve succeed based on the evidence they revealed from the guilty plea in pegging the time line. that opens up possibilities of what may have unfurled itself. there s plenty of evidence to believe the white house perceives an increasing athlete. we re learning jeff sessions considering appointing a special prosecutor to distract and fire up the fog machine. roy moore, the white house itself, two white house officials floating the possibility of jeff sessions retaking his senate seat. i can t imagine that part of the motive is not to get jeff sessions out of doj and bring a attorney general in there that can disrupt the investigation. a new woman accusing roy moore of sexual abuse speaking out today. also the list of lawmakers on capitol hill saying he shouldn t bow out of the race is growing. we ll cover that when we continue. i don t want to sound paranoid, but d ya think our recent online sales success seems a little. strange? na. ever since we switched to fedex ground business has been great. they re affordable and fast. maybe too affordable and fast. what if. people aren t buying these books online, but they are buying them to protect their secrets?!?! hi bill. if that is your real name. it s william actually. hmph! affordable, fast fedex ground. man: for every social occasion.ntial so the the broom said, sorry i m late. i over-swept. [ laughter ] yes, even the awkward among us deserve some laughter. and while it s okay to nibble in public, a lady only dines in private. try the name your price tool from progressive. it gives you options based on your budget. uh-oh. discussing finances is a big no-no. what, i m helping her save money! shh! men are talking. that s it, i m out. taking the meatballs. moore sexually assaulted her when he offered her a ride home from the restaurant where she worked and he ate. with attorney gloria allred by her side, mrs. nelson spoke to reporters this afternoon. he stopped the car. he stopped the car and he parked his car. in between the dumpster and the back of the restaurant where there were no [ inaudible ] the area was dark and the area was deserted. i was immediately alarmed and i asked him what he was doing. instead of answering my questions, mr. moore reached over and began groping me. him putting his hands on my breasts. i try to open my car door to leave, but he reached over. he locked it so i could not get out. i tried fighting him off while yelling at him to stop. but instead of stopping, he began squeezing my neck attempt to go force my head onto his crotch. i continued to struggle. i was determined that i was not going to allow him to phosphorus me to have sex with him. i was terrified. he was also trying to pull my shirt off. i thought that he was going to rape me. i was twisting and i was struggling and i was begging him to stop. i had tears running down my face. at some point he gave up. and he then looked at me and he told me, he said you re just a child, and he said i am the district attorney. and if you tell anyone about this, no one will ever believe you. roy moore tonight denied the allegations and even before beverly young nelson spoke up today, support among the republicans who moore would serve with on capitol hill was slipping. today it seems to fall off a cliff. phil, a lot more senators saying roy moore should withdraw. started with a trickle and caveated statements. right now it s a waterfall of senators saying it s time for him to step aside. anderson, it was led by senate majority leader mitch mcconnell and john thune saying it s time for him to go, gone are the if he s guilty caveats. the real question now is what power do these republicans who are being clear he needs to get out of the race actually have? and the assistance not a lot. i was talking to operatives trying to get a sense of what their end game is and the hope the clearly that roy moore drops out. there s also talk of write-in campaigns, people like luther strange, perhaps jeff sessions who s made clear he s not interested in it through associates of his. so what is the actual end game? one republican operative texted back to me question marks. seems unlikely he would drop out at this point given his public statements. could the same senators refuse to seat him should he got re-elected? the most dynamic statement of the entire day, cory gardener putting out a statement saying clearly if roy moore wins his election that he shouldn t be expelled. others said hold on, let s wait and see how this plays out. but the fact that cory gardener put this as an option, made it clear they re exploring every option. only 15 senators in the history of the chamber have ever been expelled. senate ethics committee would have to start an investigation, then 2/3 of all senators would have to vote for it. so it s not an easy process. all republican support has completely flown away, anderson. more on the latest accuser with allegations of sexual misconduct, she showed a yearbook she claims he signed, plus our panel s take on all this ahead. it s a lot easier to make decisions when you know what comes next. if you move your old 401(k) to a fidelity ira, we make sure you re in the loop at every step from the moment you decide to move your money to the instant your new retirement account is funded. oh and at fidelity, you ll see how all your investments are working together. because when you know where you stand, things are just clearer. just remember what i said about a little bit o soul senators on capitol hill. it s horrific for the republican party in a bunch of ways. first of all, what is this republican party now? grand old pedophiles? they should have been embarrassed by roy moore a long time ago when he was saying horrific homophobic things. he should have been an embarrassment. this is absolutely unacceptable. i am glad to see republican leaders are coming out trying to distance themselves from him and doing everything they can to cut off the stringing. it s a little lately. at school a big problem for the republican party because it shows the rift, the civil war, which side exist within the republican party. we are seeing washington republicans are saying one thing and weir seeing people in alabama, republicans still defending, even evangelicals defending him. comparisons to mary and joseph and lawnmowers. this is crazy. thr this should be about basic right and wrong. this should not be about base versus establishment. this should be about protecting women, 14, 15, 16 year old girls. you can thank steve bannon and he lost with ed gillespie. i m not thanking him for a damn thing. nationally speaking, they were pretty quick to disavow this. mitch mcconnell as the majority leader came out, said he believed the women. and i think it was a smart move politically. obviously it was the right thing morally, but with politically speaking this is triage. if this is going to happen in alabama, keen it in beach. we don t want this spreading. i think they ve probably stemmed the bleeding or kept it in alabama. if he gets elected, they re faced with what to do. i think you re right it was important for them to say i believe these women instead of if, in fact, it happened. we need to hear from the president. his excuse is i m traveling overseas. and official statement was he shouldn t step down if, in fact, this did happen, but i think he needs to be more definitive. this is not an issue they don t want to focus on. the president is going to have to be talking and addressing this too. i can t agree with you more. if someone can make a difference in alabama, it s probably donald trump. i suspect that a lot of people are saying to donald trump you really shouldn t weigh into this, god knows you have your share when it comes to this topic, but he shouldn bill clinton right side. i was thinking there was no chance that moore was going to get into the u.s. senate and all these national politicians started saying who you should and shouldn t pick. gloria allred comes sprinting out with a press conference. i don t want that to step on the lady s story, which is very compelling and heart breaking to see that note in the yearbook makes you want to throw up, but there s nothing that s going to make the people of alabama rally. i talked to somebody whork worked on his campaign saying i want to volunteer for that reason. the proper course is normally a criminal trial. we ve been robbed of that opportunity so we have a political trial which is election day. seeing that woman on tv recount her experiences was gut wrenching. it very much reminds me of when teena teenage prostitutes six years ago that was brought up and nobody called on him to step down. why does hypocrisy exist here. those prostitutes recanted the story. can we stop this what aboutism? bob melendez is on trial. not for these charges. he s going to have to deal with the asks. moorose fate is up to the alabama voters now. you nervous? why people everywhere are upgrading their water filter to zerowater. start with water that has a lot of dissolved solids. pour it through brita s two-stage filter. dissolved solids remain? what if we filter it over and over? (sighing) oh dear. thank goodness zerowater s five-stage filter gets to all zeroes the first time. so, maybe it s time to upgrade. get more out of your water. get zerowater. she says she s close friends with the mother of leigh corfman. corfman told the washington post that four decades ago the then 32-year-old roy moore had sexual contact with her when she was 14 years old. she learned of this decades ago from corfman s mother. and in the 90s nancy confided in me and told me the story that was printed in the newspaper in confidence. i never said it. i never told anybody because it was in confidence. but because of that i knew i would never vote for the man. how did you vote in the primary? i voted republican for roy moore. carol cal list is a registered republican too. what happens on december 12th? before i m a republican, i m a mother of daughters. i can t vote for him now. i just can t. she says she s known leigh corfman for years as well, but says she never knew until the washington post published its story about corfman and three other women. those three women told the post that moore in his 30s pursued them as teenagers between the ages of 16 and 18. for me reading it in the newspaper and realizing that i truly knew two of these people and knew their mothers and all of a sudden they weren t rumors anymore. my heart broke. it s a devastating feeling to think what those individuals have gone through all these years, not feel they could speak up. by a show of hands, how many of you think roy moore will be elected to the u.s. senate? . none of you think he s going to win? no. that may be wishful thinking on their part. it s absolutely unbelievable. supporters in his home state cheered as moore denied the allegations. we spoke to numerous women voters in alabama who say they still support him, but amid the allegations that moore pursued minors, they were reluctant to say so publicly. joyce shelly is the exception. i ve been knowing roy moore a long, long, long time. i m talking about probably fort years. have you heard anything like this about him. never. we spoke outside the county attorney house where moore was an assistant district attorney. on december 12th when your state goes to the ballot box, who is going to win this election? i still think roy moore will. why do you believe that? i just know he understands a lot of people and a lot of people feel the same way i do. the women you spoke to, what did they say about the possibility of roy moore getting expelled from the senate if he s elected. some of the women say yes, that is the way to go. that is the safety net. but that last woman in my story, she said there is one way to widen that rift between d.c. and states like alabama is to expel him if alabama sends him to the u.s. senate, anderson. all right. thanks very much for the reporting. coming um, when world leaders call each other names. it s just like the playground with the tlet of nuclear war. the ridiculous is next. that s right. t-mobile s got your netflix subscription covered. .when you get a family plan with two or more lines. really? that s incredible. so go ahead and watch however you want. you re messing with me, right? all at no extra charge. this is awesome! another reason why t-mobile is america s best unlimited network. mic drop. no matter what it brings. every day. or where he is. and pain doesn t hold him back. thanks to dr. scholl s running insoles. the only ones proven to relieve and prevent pain from runner s knee, shin splints and plantar fasciitis. dr. scholl s. born to move. ridiculousness of the tweet, just a quick reminder that its backdrop is no big deal just a potential thing called nuclear ar ma ged done. this is the way the world ends not with a bang but on twitter. the president s tweet saturday night was just in time to make weekend update. they re like you lunatic old man and he s like old? it s true. it s an exchange that could have been straight out of mean girls but even in mean girls they eventually apologize for all the name-calling. i m sorry i call you a gap tooth. gretchen, i m sorry i laughed at you that time you got diarrhea at barnes & noble and i m sorry for receipting approximate now. you re fat because i hate you. think about that for a second. come to think of it the president s i would never call him short and fat but i try to hard to be his friend isn t nearly as knee wansed and biting as kids in high school come up with. somebody on twitter transferred it to crayon which is more fitting to the age group and sentiment. you re a nerd. no, you are, but what am i? you re an idiot. i know i know you are, but what am i? i know you are, but what am i? i know you are, but what am i infinity. if the president absolutely has to hurl juvenile insults with potentially catastrophic consequences perhaps he should aspire to at least make them interesting or original of the maybe he should start vauchg veep to get some pointers. you re a dirty little bleep. you don t get the complexity. you re the world s biggest single cell organism. it was an accident, okay? much like when your big foot got pregnant result not guilty you. i don t have time to ignore you, gary. don t you pate niez me with your no jaw, you congressman no jaw.
pursued them. moore called the whole thing a baseless attack. here s a statement from his campaign. moore has endured more attacks than any in the arena still, a bipartisan force on capitol hill is calling for him to step down from his nomination. and henry joins us live from capitol hill. brand-new this hour, roy moore has gone on a tweet storm charging that this is what he calls the obama-clinton machine coming at him. he has vowing he will never go up the fight so he is pushing back hard and caught in the middle is the sentry publican leader mitch mcconnell who has been warning steve bannon and others to be careful with these old. she said i went along with it, i went to his house a couple of times. it s not really that question of her going, it s a question of whether or not he did this. i understand this is a hugely politically charged environment. his opponents are looking for anything they possibly can find to take him down the long-held republic and seat. the question is whether or not this happened and whether or not voters will hold that against him. a.b.? this is an impossible situation for republicans who are calling him not to run or to step down from his nomination because this is not summing that can be proven, or prosecuted prosecuted. you see the senators in washington saying this is no place for someone like this. his candidacy is not sustainable if these allegations are true. we have no way of knowing to prove that to be true and then you have alabama republicans defending him and you have his campaign basically saying all of this coming out and as ed pointed out, within the 76 day mark, he s really protected legally and he is not going to step down. this is not a situation republicans will be able to get out of. i think they re going to have roy moore in the senate on december 13th unless this energizes democrats and he loses the election. martha: up by 60% right now now. some people, lisa murkowski among them who is a right in candidate herself in 2010 suggest people write and both are strange. i think it s absolutely outrageous for senators like john mccain to be presuming moore guilty. that s not america. this is something that is a i got this.n there? that s the new man, huh? yup. getting kinda close to my ride. wow. now, that s how you make a first impression. they re going to love you. that s ford, america s best-selling brand. hurry in today for 0% financing for 72 months across the full line of ford cars, trucks and suvs! and just announced.get 0% apr for 72 months plus $1000 cash back! take advantage of these exclusive holiday offers during the ford year end sales event. psoriatic arthritis tries to get in my way? watch me. i ve tried lots of things for my joint pain. now? watch me. think i d give up showing these guys how it s done? please. real people with active psoriatic arthritis are changing the way they fight it. they re moving forward with cosentyx®. it s a different kind of targeted biologic. it s proven to help people find less joint pain and clearer skin. don t use if you are allergic to cosentyx. before starting cosentyx you should be checked for tuberculosis. an increased risk of infections and lowered ability to fight them may occur. tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms of an infection. or if you have received a vaccine, or plan to. if you have inflammatory bowel disease tell your doctor if symptoms develop or worsen. serious allergic reactions may occur. with less joint pain, watch me. for less joint pain and clearer skin, ask your rheumatologist about cosentyx. as you said, busy day appear. his spokeswoman sarah sanders a moment ago putting out a statement saying this was a huge step forward today on taxes toward getting his biggest victory in office, saying this will be massive tax relief for our viewers. the tax packages moved to the house floor as you noted. kevin brady offered an amendment to fine-tune the plan. on one hand, the senate bill with delay the slashing of corporate taxes that the president had been touting so much and that could turn off conservatives, but the package also offers some improved benefits to the middle class that could help bring along wavering republicans in maybe even some modern democrats in the senate. here s what it had come of senate plan. but the house and senate would reduce the corporate rate to 20% from 35%, but the senate would do that after a one-year delay. that s aimed at satisfying deficit hawks who want to keep costs down, but delaying implementation will slow the impact on the economy. the house wants to cap mortgage interest reduction to a $500,000. the senate would permit up to $1 million. democrats say that s a huge problem in high tax states like new york and california and would put the public and majorities in jeopardy and the midterms, but g.o.p. leaders insist will be fine because they are delivering on a promise to the american people. senate republicans are telling house republicans there will be no compromise on state and local deductibility. it s a full repeal or bust. senate republicans need the race by ending this popular middle-class deduction. speak out this is about improving people s lives and mag a positive difference and i fundamentally believe when we do this, make good on our word and promise and make people s lives better, we re going to be just fine politically. the goal is to get a final bill to the president s desk by christmas, but that is going to be hard with these policy differences and i was at a twist tonight about whether or not roy moore can get that alabama senate seat in republican hands. martha: ed, thank you very much. wall street obviously watching all of this very closely. the market has been up dramatically over 22% since president trump took office, but today, it backed off a bit. it s relative when you look at it, 23,000, not even at half a percentage. analysts are concerned about whether the republic and legislation wbr id= wbr10192 /> can actually pass. /b> joining me now, gary cohen, chief of economic advisor to the president. thank you for joining me. first i want to ask about this story that is very much in the news that we lead with tonight and that is the question of roy moore. does the white house believe that roy moore should continue to run for that seat in alabama? martha, thank you for having me. i enjoy the opportunity to be with you this evening. we have not seen all the facts yet and the white house is waiting for the facts until we make a decision. martha: luther strange was president trump s candidate. is there any potential he may call for the voters in alabama to write him in and go back to when he pushed for initially? like i said, we are waiting to see the facts and once we see all the facts, the president will have an opinion on this situation. martha: all right. we ll get more on that as it comes out, as you say. and terms of what happened on the hill today, obviously the market backed off a bit because the market had a huge run, largely on the notion that corporations are going to get a nice big tax cut, 20%. how do you feel about the fact that they might not get it for another year? i m not sure that s why the markets been running. the market goes up and down. as you just pointed out, we had less than a half percent pullback in the start market today. i think the market is going up because american businesses have been doing better and better as the economy continues to grow. our job is to make sure of the economy does continue to grow and we help american businesses compete in a competitive global environment. our plan is to aim to make sure we lower the business tax rate and our u.s. businesses can compete in a very competitive environment. we are very excited about what happened today. as you mentioned, we did get the house plan out of the ways and means committee and the senate did introduce their plan today which will go into committee next week. martha: what you think what are you most concerned about? i m not concerned about any of the differences. we are going through regular order, normal process, regular committees in both the house and senate and this is exactly what we told people was going to happen. we are on the schedule we said we would be on. before relief for thanks giving next weekend, we hope and we re pretty optimistic that the house will have voted their bill out and the senate will be the committee process. a lot of people doubted we could be at that place by thanksgivin thanksgiving. martha: to the senate democrats, the president said you re going to like the senate bill demo better. that reminded me of the obamacare battle where he said to the senators, the house version is mean, but we are going to do something better in the senate. that s not going to roll over very well with her colleagues the house side. i think the president and the white house likes both versions. martha: why is he saying they re going to like the senate version better? i think the president likes both versions because look at what they both do. they both attacked both of his goals. the president set out to primary objectives. number one, a middle income tax cut and number two lowering the tax rate and making it more competitive so we can deliver real wage growth to hardworking americans. both plans do that so the president is very supportive of both of these plans. martha: jeff flake saying he s not so sure about this deal in the senate, he doesn t like it a lot, there is likely to be more dissent from senate republicans as well. does the president feel he can t catch a break from his own party in the senate? he s very optimistic about this tax bill, it does everything he set out to do and everything he told the voters he was going to do with tax reform. martha: i get it, so he s happy with what it looks like. he thinks he can pass, will he get any senate democrats to pass it? does he think he needs that? we would love to have senate democrats. we ve been spinning a lot of times with senate democrats. i think you know that we met with a group of 12 democrats that senator mansion put together. martha: how many do you think you can get on board with this bill? we heard from many democrats there is a possibility we could get 70 or 80 votes on this. when we continue to meet with the democrats and we are happy o meet with them. martha: gary cohen, thank you very much wbr-id= wbr12923 /> for coming back tonight. still ahead this evening within the hour, president trump leaves china on the heels of a very high-stakes meeting he had with trade and north korea. he said some very interesting things while he was in china and we re going to talk about it with karl rove, but first, donna brazile is doing her best to take down an already splintered democratic party with some very fiery new allegations tonight. our panel coming up next to take this on when we come back. we cooperated with the dhs, fbi, cia, anyone who wanted to help us, we wanted help. our country was under attack. it wasn t just the democratic party. coaching means making tough choices. jim! you re in! but when you have high blood pressure and need cold medicine that works fast, the choice is simple. coricidin hbp is the #1 brand that gives powerful cold symptom relief without raising your blood pressure. coricidin hbp. it s a like, a dagger?a worm! a tiny sword? 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brazile now claims she wasn t trying to give her an edge, she was trying to warn her about the topics. brazile also now is claiming she never said the primary was rigged in hillary s favor, but here s what she wrote. i had promised bernie sanders when i took the position of interim chair of the dnc that i would get to the bottom of whether or not hillary s team had rigged the party process in her favor so that only she could win the nomination. she goes on to write bisect number seven, the day i was making this call to bernie, i had found my proof and what i had found broke my heart. hillary clinton was asked about the allegedly rigged primary on late night with seth myers. watch. i didn t know what she was referring to because as it s now come out, that just wasn t the case. as it s now come out, but we checked and the only thing that has now come out is donna brazile saying she didn t mean to say the campaign was rigged. martha. martha: thank you very much. here with more on all of this, lisa boothe. isaac wright is a former executive director and taz lindsay garrow is a former national staffer. welcome to all of you. donna brazile said she also gave questions to bernie sanders, is that true? that s breaking news i m sure to bernie sanders and martin o malley. she says you don t know what it is i gave them, that was very vague. it s really unfortunate to see how the dnc democrats have crucified donna brazile for speaking the truth and she is clearly not trying to go and make amends and pretty much walk back some of her comments. she also set on tucker last night that she didn t mean to say to hell with them, she said she should have went high instead of going low and it s really unfortunate because this is fairly her motivation because of the backlash from democrats and now hillary clinton pretending as if she s completely delusional and doesn t remember the actual agreement and it s really sad and unfortunate. martha: isaac, how can hillary clinton claimed that she doesn t remember the agreement you signed? i don t think she claimed she didn t remember the agreement, the clip you just played said she didn t recognize anything was rigged and i think that s the same thing donna brazile has said. i think that s the same thing national martha: donna brazile said it was tac and then pushing them aside was unethical and she did use the word rigged. she said she didn t recall. they said they didn t recognize the part that donna was talking about. donna has said last night, on sunday repeatedly that she didn t believe the system was rigged, that senator clinton, secretary clinton had a agreement to raise money for the national party, that s a pretty common practice. bernie sanders had one as well. he didn t raise one into the dnc, clinton did, so she had and put on how that money was spent. i m sure if sanders had raised money to the dnc, he could have done that as well. donald trump had a signed agreement with the republican party. martha: go ahead tezlyn. i m sorry, that was in agreement she had outside of raising the money that said if i give you the money, i will control the strategy, i will control how the staffing is done, i will control how everything takes place before she was even the nominee. what donna brazile said was that she found the cancer. i know how cancer can be deadly. they have yet to find a cure and the more we can back this up, change it can be anything different than what it is which is a cancer that is not only corrupting those of the top, but corrupting those of the bottom. if we continue to act like everything is all unwell and say as long as we won in virginia, all is well, we continue to hurt people. this is wrong to walk this back is wrong. i understand donna brazile s position as the first african-american female to run a primary, i respect her. spill it lisa go ahead. whatever your definition, the reality is debbie wasserman schultz resigned on the eve of this convention over the even tl that surfaced. debbie wasserman schultz was trying to help the clinton campaign over bernie sanders. whatever your definition of rigged is, the fact is the former dnc chairwoman stepped aside over this very issue and with regards to the questions that were leaked, donna brazile also had to step aside and resigned from cnn for leaking those emails to hillary clinton, so those of two things are fact. for the democratic party right now, the 2016 election was a really embarrassing chapter for them so this is clearly reopening that and it s also reopening the very deep rift in the democratic party as you just saw with the two democrats on the panel going at it over this very issue. martha: we want to play a moment from the democratic convention. i was standing on the floor the time, so many bernie supporters in that room were so upset and clearly the look on their face, let s play this, suggested they felt like the rug had been pulled out from under them in an unfair way. watch this. bernie, martha: the question for you, what needs to be done if there is so much bad blood right now over this? how do you convince the bernie supporters that there is going to be a more fair proper process in the future? the process worked, we had an election, the people chose a candidate and that was our nominee, she won the election by 3 million votes, but unfortunately lost the white house to the electoral college. i think there s a unity reform committee right now it s working on some ideas like superdelegates and changing up the system to modernize and an updated and we are going to see the results of that in january and i hope everybody will come together. when democrats work together and we get our message out, we won. that s what happened tuesday night. i hope the dnc can go to a 12-step program because clearly we re dealing with the disease of alcoholism or drugs or something. let s start by apologizing to those you have hurt in the bottom line is the more we keep ignoring this and acting like this didn t happen, that people were not hurt, the worse it s going to be. i m here to say nobody s going to get over this and move on. i suggest people move forward, clean it out, reform it. martha: thank you very much, great to have all of you with us here tonight. still had tonight, the dramatic new steps that airports are taking to fix the problems that could have led, at least contributed to this. tony shaver and colonel wallace are here to talk about that. president trump wraps up the very high-stakes time he spent in china. what deal was struck with president she? karl rove weighs in with his take next. up my feeling toward you is an incredibly warm one as we said, we have great chemistry and i think you re going to do tremendous things for both china and the united states. ctors and pharmacists for their own frequent heartburn. ctors and all day all night protection. when it comes to frequent heartburn, trust nexium 24hr. they always refer to me as master sergeant. they really appreciate the military family, and it really shows. we ve got auto insurance, homeowners insurance. had an accident with a vehicle, i actually called usaa before we called the police. usaa was there hands-on very quick very prompt. i feel like we re being handled as people that actually have a genuine need. we re the webber family and we are usaa members for life. usaa, get your insurance quote today. martha: tonight, president trump is about to leave china as he heads to vietnam, that s the fourth leg of this very high-stakes asia trip that he has been on. the threat of course of north korea looming large over the discussions you see there on your screen, but the president also at one point opted for some nuance language, should we say in terms of trade that we ve seen in the past. both the united states and china will have a more prosperous future if we can achieve a level, economic playing field. right now, unfortunately, it is a very one-sided, and unfair one, but, but, i don t blame china. [laughter] [applause] after all, who can blame a country for being able to take advantage of another country for the benefit of its citizens? i give china great credit. [laughter] martha: some critics watched that and they jumped all over the president saying he had completely changed his tune. watch this. clearly he is trying to make himself very popular. almost head snapping and how president dominic dumb academic martha: karl rove, former senior advisor and a fox news contributor. good to see you. he got skewered by some for softening his tone on china, did he? not really, but i do think it was the wrong tone. i think it would have been better being tough on them. the president saying it s our fault, there s a little bit of obama in there. is not your fault, it s our fault. we ve been weak, my predecessors have been weak. it would have been better if he said what he said during the campaign which is you, china, are not living up to the international standards that you have agreed to. you re engaging in unfair trading practices. martha: he did say that. he said it s been one-sided and unfair. he also said it s not your fault. it is their fault because they have been engaged. martha: i didn t interpret it that way the way he meant it is on for america first, it s your country, so your four china first, but we need to think of a way that works for both of us. i disagree respectfully, because i think president trump would say i m seeking unfair advantage with other countries. he s simply saying i want to be treated fairly. if we treat you fairly, you have to treat us fairly and you re not treating us fairly. here s the big thing, let s not get stuck up in the language. these things are events, but they re part of a bigger and broader process. they announced today some trade deals and even the administration admits these deals are no substitute for change and fundamental policy. this was an attempt to further the dialogue about policy changes if the chinese to stop stealing our intellectual property, get them to lower the sale of goods and services inside the country and so forth. this was an event, a visit, that would allow the administration to take another opportunity to advance, but we won t see the outcomes for days, if not weeks. martha: i think you re absolutely right about that. this trip is laying groundwork, right question you try to lay the groundwork for future discussions. as you said, they got $250 billion in trade and technology, aviation, energy, but obviously, the big issue here is north korea. does he come home from that trip, having made any progress in his private discussions with president she? we won t know for some period of time. i think he did his cause a great deal of good by that speech that he gave in the soul because it was strong, forceful, and clear. it s a very interesting situation here. the administration got some really good movement by getting the chinese circle bank to withdraw bank accounts or people doing business and north korea, but that happened before the party congress in which xi basically consolidated his powe power. as a result, the new chapter in relationship with china, does he think he needs to do two things, one is does he think he needs to follow through on his commitment they made in the international agreements that have been made through the united nations sanctions on tightening the screws and north korea and also, are there other steps that he is willing to take to remove the idea of a north korea having nuclear weapons and ballistic missiles? the united states has given an important commitment to the chinese which is what we are not in favor of eight united korean peninsula under a democratic regime like we have in the sout. we accept that china wants to have a communist buffer state on its border, but the question is how much more are we going to get from the chinese and again, this was an event, is a process, we have to watch what comes out of the process. martha: we will. karl rove, thank you so much peer thanks for being here. thank you, martha. martha: coming up next. how did this happen question right out of the air force not report this criminal history to the database? martha: that question is haunting the families of the 26 victims of sunday s church massacre in texas. tony schaefer and michael walt on the failure of the government in this situation and what, if anything, can be done to fix them. cuvite. it helps replenish nutrients your eyes can lose as you age. nourish your eyes to help keep them healthy. ocuvite. be good to your eyes. when this guy got a flat tire in the middle of the night, so he got home safe. yeah, my dad says our insurance doesn t have that. what?! you can leave worry behind when liberty stands with you™. liberty mutual insurance. the mountain like i used to. i even accept i have a higher risk of stroke due to afib, a type of irregular heartbeat not caused by a heart valve problem. but whatever trail i take, i go for my best. so if there s something better than warfarin, i ll go for that too. eliquis. eliquis reduced the risk of stroke better than warfarin, plus had less major bleeding than warfarin. eliquis had both. don t stop taking eliquis unless your doctor tells you to, as stopping increases your risk of having a stroke. eliquis can cause serious and in rare cases fatal bleeding. don t take eliquis if you have an artificial heart valve or abnormal bleeding. while taking eliquis, you may bruise more easily. .and it may take longer than usual for any bleeding to stop. seek immediate medical care for sudden signs of bleeding, like unusual bruising. eliquis may increase your bleeding risk if you take certain medicines. tell your doctor about all planned medical or dental procedures. i m still going for my best. and for eliquis ask your doctor about eliquis. texas church massacre. one of the victims was the unborn child. this, as the pastor of the church now says his small place of worship is just too painful a place now. he hopes to demolish it and build a memorial garden there and rebuild elsewhere. these heartbreaking developments as just a short time ago, the air force addressed its failure to report information that could have prevented this gunman from ever walking into the gun store and purchasing his weapon. how did this happen? how did the air force not report this shooter s criminal history the database? that s what the review will find out. our responsibility is to look at what happened here and why. martha: there is that. here now, tony shaver, and lieutenant colonel michael waltz s i m a former green beret commander and fox news contributor. welcome. this is a tough side of this story. this is a man who pointed a loaded weapon and his wife, throttled her and the baby, a little boy, and he admitted the force with which he came at that child could have killed him. this is a man who the military justice system gave one year in confinement, then they released him and in error, didn t let the ncis know that he was out there and that he definitely should not be someone who should be permitted to have a gun. tony? this is not a single point failure. yes the air force is in the hot seat, but this man showed tendencies long before the conviction. we need to see a composite picture of these folks and martha, i argue, we don t need new gun laws, we simply have to have better information sharing that commiserate s with the technology. i work with something called a high intensity drug trafficking area. they re using amazing software called tetra which collects data in real-time from databases. i would argue that it s terrible, but martha: the point is that there was a checkpoint that should have happened. put up the numbers we have at the pentagon. this is a pentagon inspector general report that says the navy 94% of the time, the army 70% of the time. this begs the question, are they covering for their own? i think it s a lack of oversight. i m sorry, go ahead. i was going to say, to add to your point, tony, these databases are only as good as what you put into them. there s so many of them, right? i m glad to see secretary mattis ordering a broader dod investigation because we are seeing systemic problems right here. we saw the same thing similarly where the coast guard in the case of bowe bergdahl rejected him for psychological problems, but that wasn t communicative with the army who then accepted him. tony, i m sure you know as well, when you re discharged from the military and your entire career of medical issues from combat overseas, that database doesn t talk to the veterans affairs database. i think it s a broader systemic problem. i doubt this is just a one off on this particular airman. secretary mattis, the secretary of the air force and the entire system need to get to the bottom of it because there is an entire separate military judicial system we have criminals, prisons, and if as not being communicated to the fbi and these guys are kicked out of the military and then are free to buy assault rifles, that s a huge problem. martha: will have great respect for our military and that goes without saying, i hop hope. i m saying because i know i m being a bit critical here, but i don t think it s any comfort. these families deserve answers. martha: they absolutely do. michael, i agree with you on this. martha: there was a piece this morning in usa today where the air forces former top prosecutor say too often domestic abuse cases get to light sentences and they should not be handled in the military. they should be handled to the federal agencies and the court systems. i disagree. the military has to be held accountable. those men under those commanders have to be held accountable based on the fact that as you point out, martha, they do things that are extraordinary and if they cannot perform adequately in their home life, that needs to be part of the equation looking at them for the suitability. i think michael would agree with me on this. i think the military point system is fantastic, and needs to be updated. martha: think you so much, will be right back with more. no. i would never. doggie lovers ? 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candid views of this president. you talk to them one on one, they re pretty up front about the fact that they don t take all the president s words to heart. that they are kind of getting used to how he conducts himself and his disregard for the facts. and that s a remarkable thing for an american president, members of his own party, in the congress to say. it s where we are. and i m kind of used to it too now, because you talk to members of the congress. and in private, they don t even bother offering a defense of this president. they acknowledge he says things that are not true. look at what bob corker told us a few months ago in that interview, where he really broke with the president. he said the president tweets things that are not true, you know it, i know it, he knows it, damage to the fabric of american democracy, and that s an extraordinary thing for them to say. yeah. but yet they won t say it publicly. here s what i have to ask you, and one of the main reasons i m asking you. in are other reasons i m asking you about this. i m not sure if you heard the conversation i had just before you, with the military folks. talking about possibly going to war with north korea. do they question this president s grasp of reality. this is a person who can declare war. who has the military codes, but is lying and admits he does, and doesn t have a grasp on reality opinion do they voice concern about that? senator corker mentioned this to me a few months ago, he s uneasy about it i think what these lawmakers comfort themselves with is the fact they believe a lot of what the president does is mere bluster, he is blowing off steam, he doesn t follow through with his threats. i think they reassure themselves that he s not going to follow through with the comments he makes, they re merely words. they look at people around the president like john kelly. and they believe there is some restraint around a president if he does act impulsively, for the most point they ve gotten to the point where 11 months into this administration, they don t believe he s going to follow through with what he says and does. they do discount his public tweets and threats. what was it, the new word of the year was complicit? there s a good reason for that. jonathan, i want you to stand by, i want to bring in david now. weren t you hear the night that access hollywood tape were we on the air that night? we kept waiting for the apology to come the president apologized. i ve said and done things i regret. and the words released today on this more than a decade old video are one of them. i said it, i was wrong and i apologize. i said it, i was wrong and i apologize. now i want to send investigators, it s not me, it doesn t sound like me, it s what? yeah, don, so what. as you said, that day that that tape came out. my washington post colleague reported this story, we were on the air later that night. waiting for the president to come out and make that statement you just played. now that we re a little more than a year later, you probably would expect the president at this point still love him or hate him, to not acknowledge the many allegations against him. you wouldn t expect him to acknowledge things that he could be in jeopardy for, you would expect anyone especially the president of the united states to acknowledge a tape we ve all heard with our own ears and for which he apologized in a videotaped address you played. that is the lengths president trump will go to rewrite history on these cases, whether it s on that, whether it s on president obama s birth certificate, on a whole host of issues. but you just don t expect the president of the united states to lie as my dad would say, flat foot in your face. apparently now we do. for everyone who reads that story, what i took away from those quotes, from those members of congress who were speaking on background was this idea that they ve already priced in that you can only sort of take everything the president says to them in private with a grain of salt, you talk to the president. i m going by my take from these quotes. you talk to the president, he says some thenks, some of it is probably not that true. some of it maybe is true. you move on and work with members of the administration. but not not taking the president fully at his word. that is the gift of what some of those folks were telling jonathan in that story. a year into a four-year term, that s where a lot of people are, it s unfortunate. we all expect politicians and political operatives to spin, it s another thing, to just flatly go against what people know very well from their own eyes and ears. i want you to. remember this i want to play this for you. it s a strange press conference the president gave during the campaign. where he walked back from the birtherism. although it was tepid, he was like barack obama was born in the united states, period now we all want to get back to making america strong and great again. i just as a black person, seeing those people behind him. really? come on. the former president who he made up those bogus claims about said that all along i can t believe how ridiculous this is. we have better things and much more important things to deal with. it s clear he didn t believe it, he didn t want to say it, and he doesn t believe that now. or maybe he does, maybe there s some reason he s saying it, he just doesn t like the president who he inherited a great economy from. a great job market from, who he continues to say, you know, the stock market s doing great, doing great for years under barack obama. i wonder what he would have said if he inherited from barack obama what he inherited from the president before him. there s something particularly loathsome about the way president trump glommed on to the birther movement as a way to crawl his way to the top of the heap in presidential politics. leaving that aside for a moment. the president part of this is about president obama, and part of it is about president trump himself. it s about obama to the degree you feel like he s still in competition about president obama. he brags that the stock market is up 20% since he s been president. it was up 150% over obama s eight years. he knows that, i think his behavior suggests he s in competition with president obama. the part of this that s about president trump. and regardless of president obama. is that our presidents from george washington to president obama, you have to have a healthy ego to run for president, to say, i can be the leader of the free world. most presidents come to the job with an agenda, and trying to accomplish something for their legacy. for history. the ethos of president trump so far, he s daily seeking the affirmation of himself. he s often saying behind the scenes, he can t accept the results of the election. or can t accept president obama s birth certificate or can t affirm what he said on the access hollywood tape. those things don t redowned to the image he wants to have. so much more to talk about. i only have so many hours in the day, and so many hours in this broadcast. thank you, david. appreciate it. wonder what you re going to be reporting tomorrow, or in the next couple hours. i want to bring in now, a new york times columnist who has been standing by patiently here, what do you make of this? you know, presidents always exaggerate, they spin, they re always at least tethered to reality. sometimes with a long tether. president trump is the first president i ve seen who is untethered, and he s been this way not only for the last year, but for decades, and i think what is also unusual is typically, when we elect a flawed person, that person grows into the presidency, president trump has had a remarkable ability to stay the same as he s always been. you re being kind saying flawed? yes, i am. the thing that people don t want to talk about, this is not rational, this is not sane. this is crazy. there are two aspects here. one is the degree to which this demeans the u.s., degrades the presidency. it s hard to call the president a liar. it s hard to question the president s grasp of reality, as a journalist, i feel i have more respect for the office he holds than he does. saz a person who s supposed to call into question, supposed to hold the president s feet to the fire i feel an obligation to say this is nuts, this is insane. i do think we i think you re absolutely right. we respect the office by holding the people who hold that office accountable. i think our job as journalists has to be to try to continue that true squadding, and this raises obvious questions about what this does to american soft power, to the to the role of the presidency, also to the degree to which decisions are made based on facts, as opposed to some sort of alternative reality. this is what the reporter in the piece, maggie haber man tweeted. it was one of the rare moments he felt public humiliation in his life, people who know him say he s trying to will it away to some extent when he talks about it. what is going on? is he gaslighting himself? what is that. i really do think there is a continuous pattern here, what he s doing now with that access hollywood tape, is the same thing he was doing in the late 1960s, when he was caught denying blacks access to his apartment buildings in new york city. and he absolutely dede nighed what was crystal clear, what was proven in documents. and this has been a continuous pattern throughout his career, a lot of other countries do this too. i spent five years in china, where political leaders routinely if they don t like a reality, they construct an alternative one. and any connection with reality is largely coincidental. i think that s what president trump is doing. if a situation doesn t work, he invents a new one. we used to have the luxury of saying it happens over there. now those sort of dictatorial behaviors and is being used on american people. and it has a real cost. speaking of, north korea, i want to turn to north korea now, the president is now reacting, this is the frightening part, north korea s launch of an intercontinental ballistic missile earlier today. as you probably have heard, and some of you have reported a missile was launched a little while ago from north korea. i will only tell you we will take care of it, we have general mattis in the room with us. we have had a long discussion on it. it is a situation we will handle. that was toned down, and it should be. do you think he realizes the seriousness of the moment? i hope so. i think there s a lot of nervousness in congress and in the pentagon that there s a growing recognition that our strategy has failed, our strategy had been to get china to apply pressure to north korea through sanctions to get north korea to change its behavior, i don t think anybody thinks that is working, it s also clear that our strategic aim was to get denuclearization of the korean peninsula, was not feasible. we have a strategic aim that is not feasible. we have a tactic and policy that is not working, and so there s a lot of anxiety that what s left that president trump may as he has promised, talk about military options, and presidents have thought about this since president nixon in 1969, they ve always pulled back, because those options are so awful. i know you know the power of your words, and i can feel you weighing them every time you come here, i always appreciate your candor, i think when you come on this show, you re always honest, and i think you re even more honest, i appreciate that. good to be with you, don. president trump continuing to push false conspiracy theorys from the access hollywood tape, does a president really believe all this? 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but i thought we were supposed to be talking about investing for retirement? we re absolutely doing that. but there s no law you can t make the most of today. what do you want to do? i d really like to run with the bulls. wow. yea. hope you re fast. i am. get a portfolio that works for you now and as your needs change. investment management services from td ameritrade. give a little bit give a little bit. -hello. give a little bit. . of your love to me oh, haha. there s so much that we need to share so send a smile and show that you care i ll give a little bit of my love to you does the president actually believe the words that come out of his own mouth. you have to wonder that in the face the president has made over 1600 false or misleading claims since taking the oath of office. which according to the washington post, works out to be more than five per day. does he believe what he is telling us? is he gaslighting himself? or is he gaslighting us? that provocative question from vanity fair. gaslighting according to psychology today happens when a person causes a victim to question reality. that could certainly apply to the president, who regularly denies the things that we all know to be true. things we have seen with our own eyes and heard with our own ears. we remember when he was caught on tape saying this. i m automatically attracted to beautiful i start kissing them, it s like a magnet. and when you re a star, they let you do it, anything you want. they let you do it? you can do anything. before his inauguration, trump told a republican senator, he wanted to investigate that recording, even though he himself admitted he said those words and apologized for saying them. i said it, i was wrong. and i apologize. so which is it, mr. president, should we believe your apology then or your apparent denial now? i want to bring in tina nguyen who wrote that article. julia yaffe who is a staff writer for the atlantic. when donald trump tells a half truth or all out wli, he does so with assurance that it is often impossible to tell whether the president is deliberately disassembling, creating more comfortable depictions for himself give us examples? the one that comes to mind is the feud he had with jeff flake who delivered a blistering indictment of him when he announced his retirement. when asked to respond, he said, i don t know who jeff flake is, he s never met me. they met months before he was even elected. i could go on and on and on. gop tax cut zm. yeah, he claims he s not going to get any sort of benefit from the tax cut, which is pretty incorrect honestly, the entire history of covering donald trump has been what he s saying matching up with the truth. what about the fake renoir painting? he has a painting in his house that he insists is real. and the real one is hanging up in chicago. that s been debunked for a long time. but he still insists he has the real one. president trump continues to insist the voice on the access hollywood tape isn t him. and he s questioning the authenticity of barack obama s birth certificate behind closed doors. he also claims he lost the popular vote because of widespread voter fraud. does he possibly believe these things? i think it s something that he decides on a moment by moment basis. so his pattern is to establish many different claims about the same thing. so he could at one moment say that president obama was not born in the united states. then he could say i m sending detectives to honolulu to investigate, and then say oh, they re finding amazing things, and none of those things are true. but it s a great story to tell he can fall back on, and then i think he really does imagine that we re all buying this. that we only are aware of what he s saying in the moment. it s almost as if he s living out he declared would be his life. when he was much younger he said his life is a comic book, and he s the star of it. the show is trump and it s sold out every night. he oirk straights his life as if it s a dramatic performance. and we re the audience and the people around him are props. reality just depends on what the show is that moment. and if it needs to change, he changes it. i see you re nodding in agreement. you wrote a great piece about the president manipulating the media in a putin-esque way. putin figured out a better way to keep the press in line. explain how president trump is doing the same thing? we ve seen reports. it s weird i m saying this on cnn. we ve seen reports that one of the reasons that the time warner/at&t merger was blocked by the trump justice department was cnn s coverage. and cnn has been a constant punching bag for this president. he calls it fake news. he s at times literally like to tweet about punching cnn. this is the tactic the kremlin has figured out. they don t kill journalists any more, they just lean on the big company that owns as one of its many, many assets a cnn or a bloomberg or whatever publication, or an advertiser who among many other things, advertises in some magazine that s critical of avladimir putin, behind the scenes they lean on them. they don t want to risk their big business empire. they stop advertising or sell off the media property, they get laid off, they leave journal i678, because they have families to support. the reason independent media died in russia is because all the outlets were shut down for economic reasons. the kremlin has perfect plausible deniability. they can say, we had nothing to do with it. if the advertisers don t want to advertise with you, you don t have an economically feasible model, it has nothing to do with putsen. where it does. i appreciate all of you joining me here this evening. when we come back, the president told me he is the least racist person. just because you say it, doesn t make it so. we re going to dive deep into president trump s insensitive statements next. our average customer can significantly lower their monthly bills. quick. beat the fed s next rate hike. do not miss this window. are you sure you have the best rate? it only takes 3 minutes to find out. go to lendingtree.com right now. warren were sure applause lines on the campaign trail. and pocahontas is not happy. she s the worst. when the insult was repeated in front of navajo code talkers, only silence followed. the democratic senator called it a racial swlur. i think that s a ridiculous response. it s far from the only time the president has crossed racially sensitive lines. when a white supremacist rally ended in bloodshed. he suggested the counter protesters also bore blame. you had some very bad people in that group, you also had people that were very fine people on both sides. as the nfl players protest against police treatment of african-americans evolved. he was quick to demand their firing, tweeting about it numerous times, including this morning. the american public is fed up with the disrespect the nfl is paying to our country. out of control. he is as president who he was as a candidate. look at my african over here. look at him. while he bragged about support among minorities, he beat his base by demonizing them. immigrants from mexico. they re bringing drugs, they re bringing crime. they re bringing rapists and some i assume are good people. an american judge trump argued was biassed against him. he s of mexican heritage and his very proud of it. you have sacrificed nothing. and no one. the muslim mother of an american soldier killed in combat after her husband spoke against trump during the democratic convention. she was standing there, she had nothing to say, she probably maybe she wasn t allowed to have anything to say, you tell me. he relentlessly and falsely suggested the nation s first black president barack obama was not a natural born citizen. if he wasn t born in this country, he has pulled one of the great cons in the history of politics. trump refused to believe five young men were falsely accused of savage rape in central park in the 80s. trump has continually and emphatically defended himself against charges of prejudice. i am the least racist person. are you bigoted in anyway? i don t think so, no. islam phobic? no, not at all. when people say you re racist or homophobic or islam phobic or whatever it is. or compare you to hitler. does that bother you? if things are true, it would bother me tremendously. the president almost always doubles down on his remarks and his defenders deny any racist intent. those denials are less and less convincing as more examples pile up. when we come back, is there a deeper political motive behind the president s statements, or does he actually believe all of this? getting a bad haircut. overcrowded trains. turnstiles that don t turn. and spilling coffee on themselves. but for everyone else, there s directv. for #1 rated customer satisfaction over cable, switch to directv. and for a limited time get a $100 reward card. call 1-800-directv give a little bit give a little bit. -hello. give a little bit. . of your love to me oh, haha. there s so much that we need to share so send a smile and show that you care i ll give a little bit of my love to you to find smarter solutions. to offer more precise and less invasive treatment options than before. like advanced genomic testing and immunotherapy. see how we re fighting to outsmart cancer at cancercenter.com/outsmart and her new mobile wedding business.tte at first, getting paid was tough. until she got quickbooks. now she sends invoices, sees when they ve been viewed and-ta-dah-paid twice as fast for free. visit quickbooks-dot-com. of us were here. although we have a representative in congress who they say was here a long time ago. they call her pocahontas. there was silence after that comment. because everyone in the room knew he was using a racial slur directed at senator elizabeth baron. joining me now, bakari sellers and ed martin. good evening everyone, here we are bakari, i want to read this, this is from maggie haber man. this is from the new york times. it says, in recent months, they say mr. trump has used closed door conversations to question the authenticity of president barack obama s birth certificate, he claims he lost the popular vote last year because of widespread voter fraud. one senator who listened as the president revived his doubts chuckled on tuesday as recalled the conversation. the president has had a hard time letting go of his claim that the president was not born in the united states. his political career began with birtherism, this was a conspiracy theory he harbored. why can t he let this go? maybe because that s who he is. i don t think this is anything new about his character, you can go back to atlantic city, can you go back to the central park five, housing discrimination, his comments about muslim americans, about mexican americans, judge curial, we can talk about the usage of pocahontas under the portrait of andrew jackson. at a memorial where we remembered some world war ii veterans. you can go through this long litany of things. the problem we have is two fold, people are becoming desensitized when he makes racially innoce e insensitive comments. two, you have good people who are willing to set aside that and still support him anyway. so those two groups of individuals, the ones who are desensitized to this, and the ones who are putting this aside and supporting him anyway. are a bigger problem than donald trump in my opinion. i happen to agree with bakari on that. the excuse of this is just who he is, many of us warned the american people that this is who he is they cast that aside, and didn t care. just because you can explain it, doesn t mean you should excuse it. that s what people who supported donald trump are continuing to do now when he lies and behaves in a way that is is existential threat to our republican, our norms and institutions, every single day, something else comes out that demonstrates the threat he poses. it s sour grapes. because he won. no, it s not sour grapes, pointing out what s happening, the reality in front of us is not sour grapes, those of us are concerned with how do we move forward. how do we protect the country from this, you cannot have a functioning government, when the president of the united states behaves this way. and i mean, he knows the comments offend people, but he doesn t want he says that he doesn t want to stop insulting people. why does he keep saying then? i mean, two quick comments, guys, i know we re talking about some of these comments and i hear them. donald trump s political career, if you look back over 25, 30 years, he s been talking about immigration and china, and other issues, in addition to some of these comments you brought up. i watched your show, i watch your show with some devotion. and i m on frequently, when i watch the new york times reporter report a series of anonymous sources, the main one is a senator who made comments before the inauguration about the president s state of mind regarding the access hollywood. there s a reason out here maggy has been on day after day now about anonymous sources about the state of mind where sarah huckabee-sanders gets out and says he hasn t changed his mind. you realize these are the same reporters the president calls frequently whenever he wants to get his message out. and she s so discretted why did the president call her? the question was why does he continue to do it when he knows it s an insult? about pocahontas you mean? why does he continue to insult even beyond pocahontas? i don t think it s a racial slur in anyway. and if you call someone who isn t a native-american pocahontas i think that isn t a slur. i think that s called making fun of someone, not a racial slur. we don t know that she is. she s already admitted regardless it s not the forum. it s inappropriate. does anybody realize pocahontas was a real person? she s associated with james town in 1613. she was actually kidnapped by white cologniests. and died of a horrible disease. and died of a horrible disease. there is nothing about that story there is nothing about that story that you should actually use that. let me help you understand this. this is like you calling me j.j. or even more importantly you calling me leroy. it s the same thing. no, it s not. listen, i ve got to say this because i m out of time. disney made a movie about pocahontas and the movies with to honor pocahontas not to make fun of her. and it s a real story. exactly. and i agree it s not a slur. i mean wish i had time to take care of my portfolio, but.. why aren t you using this guy? 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