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Dateline-20211129-04:48:00

>> amid the chaos, frantic calls, one of the neighbors reached rachel's father. >> and i get a phone call from a screaming, irrational voice on the other end. i said, "is it rachel?" "yes, it's rachel." i said, i have a question for you." "is there a yellow ribbon around the property?" "yes." "is there a big white van in front of the house?" "yes." >> don was in the middle of moving. the movers tried to calm him down. >> and the guys says, "we don't know that she's dead." i said, "count on it, he killed her." and i got there and, you know, she was gone. >> he was right to begin with. rachel was dead. the horrific news spread. >> i got a call from a friend and i said, "it can't be." and the next thing i knew, i woke up on the floor. >> you fainted? >> i completely blacked out, hit the floor. so i called the sheriff's department and asked them if they knew what was going on. and they said just stay right

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Dateline-20211129-05:03:00

todd kept them out of the room where their mom lay dead. then, he said, he cleaned up the house as well as he could. and at 10:26 am, 7 hours after rachel died, he phoned a lawyer friend and asked him to inform the authorities. >> tell me exactly what you heard from your neighbor. >> what i'm willing to tell you is that i'm an attorney. i received a call notifying me of the situation. >> about the same time, 10:30 am, todd took his children to the neighbor's house. >> i said, "there's been -- " i didn't tell them rachel was dead. i said, "we have a very serious situation across the street. can you please watch the kids." >> murder investigations are of course based on more than just witness statements.

Todd-winkler , House , Shannon-thurman , Room , Lawyer , Authorities , Mom-lay-dead , 7 , 10 , 26 , Neighbor , Attorney

Dateline-20211129-05:06:00

night and told me that kathy was no longer with us. >> what was that like for you? >> it hurts. still hurts. >> so many years later, charles carlisle still smarts from the loss of his big sister kathy, just never got over it. but then, kathy was also his menture, his protector, perhaps his only true friend. they grew up in california, charles painfully shy. kathy, outgoing, strikingly attractive and popular. kellyanne and kathy were school chums. they remember what a knockout she was, but that there was more to her than just that. >> she could have her choice of

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Dateline-20211129-04:07:00

mate. he was nothing but loving and kind to her. >> we were both 21. >> hard to watch, said rachel's closest friend, shannon thurman. >> she called me when she broke up with him and said, "you know -- we're done. i wanna have a family, he's not ready to have a family. and so, you know, we're done." and then literally like two months later, she called me and said, you know, "you need to be here in two days, i'm getting married." and i was like, "oh, great. you guys made -- made up." and she's like, "no, we didn't make up. we -- you know, it's -- it's this other guy, his name is todd, and you need to be here in two days." >> tim didn't go to the wedding, couldn't handle it, went to a bar to escape it. no idea the wedding party would swoop into his bar for a round of toasts. >> it was hard, man, watching -- your girl on this big guy with her hot pink dress on and he was carrying her. >> he's the guy that's got it going on and she's a pretty girl. and they look like a great couple. >> i just -- i mean, i can't imagine what -- what that would

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Dateline-20211129-05:20:00

>> and she said, "tanya, cathy's dead. she's not alive anymore. she died." i remember falling to the ground and i said, "what do you mean she's dead? " >> cathy's friend julie-lynn felt not just for herself but for todd, too. >> and i wanted to console him and just let him know that we were there for him, supporting him, anything we could do for him. and he never returned any of my calls. >> tanya -- tanya tried to call him, too. for a different reason. >> it just didn't add up. my phone call was strictly to figure out and to pick his brain and ask questions. >> because, by then, tanya was a cop herself, who knew a little something about suspicious behavior. >> did i think he was going to answer that phone? no, and let me tell you, i tried that phone number

Holding-cathy , Ground , Tanya , Todd-winkler , Shannon-thurman , Julie-lynn-felt , Phone-call , Anything , Reason , Add-up , Calls , Something

Dateline-20210809-07:03:00

>> if was a kill or be killed situation. >> eventually todd got to his feet. he prepared a bottle for crying alex, he said. and he worried. >> and i just started just pacing around the house just saying, "god, i just killed their mother." >> by-and-by, ariel and eva woke up. todd kept them out of the room where their mom lay dead. then, he said, he cleaned up the house as well as he could. and at 10:26 am, 7 hours after rachel died, he phoned a lawyer friend and asked him to inform the authorities. >> tell me exactly what you heard from your neighbor. >> what i'm willing to tell you is that i'm an attorney. i received a call notifying me of the situation. >> about the same time, 10:30 am, todd took his children to the neighbor's house. >> i said, "there's been -- " i didn't tell them rachel was dead. i said, "we have a very serious situation across the street. can you please watch the kids." >> murder investigations are of course based on more than just witness statements. the csi team rushed over to todd and rachel's house and assistant d.a., lisette suder, joined them as they searched and documented the interior of a house that was strangely chaotic. >> what did it look like?

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Dateline-20210809-07:20:00

she died." i remember falling to the ground and i said, "what do you mean she's dead? " >> cathy's friend julie-lynn felt not just for herself but for todd, too. >> and i wanted to console him and just let him know that we were there for him, supporting him, anything we could do for him. and he never returned any of my calls. >> tanya -- tanya tried to call him, too. for a different reason. >> it just didn't add up. my phone call was strictly to figure out and to pick his brain and ask questions. >> because, by then, tanya was a cop herself, who knew a little something about suspicious behavior. >> did i think he was going to answer that phone? no, and let me tell you, i tried that phone number numerous times. and after about a month of calling it repeatedly, the phone number was disconnected. >> she didn't get anywhere.

Todd-winkler , Holding-cathy , Shannon-thurman , Ground , Julie-lynn-felt , Anything , Tanya , Calls , Phone-call , Questions , Reason , Add-up

Dateline-20210809-07:06:00

>> no, sir. actually i thought about that case many times. >> the case, an auto accident in the fall of 1999. an accident that killed the first mrs. winkler, kathy. >> my father called me that night and told me that kathy was no longer with us. >> what was that like for you? >> it hurts. still hurts. >> so many years later, charles carlisle still smarts from the loss of his big sister kathy, just never got over it. but then, kathy was also his menture, his protector, perhaps his only true friend. they grew up in california, charles painfully shy. kathy, outgoing, strikingly attractive and popular. kellyanne and kathy were school chums. they remember what a knockout

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Dateline-20210809-06:07:00

a boat and a nice car. >> tim, to me, was rachel's soul mate. he was nothing but loving and kind to her. >> we were both 21. >> hard to watch, said rachel's closest friend, shannon thurman. >> she called me when she broke up with him and said, "you know -- we're done. i wanna have a family, he's not ready to have a family. and so, you know, we're done." and then literally like two months later, she called me and said, you know, "you need to be here in two days, i'm getting married." and i was like, "oh, great. you guys made -- made up." and she's like, "no, we didn't make up. we -- you know, it's -- it's this other guy, his name is todd, and you need to be here in two days." >> tim didn't go to the wedding, couldn't handle it, went to a bar to escape it. he had no idea the wedding party would swoop into his bar for a round of toasts. >> it was hard, man, watching -- your girl on this big guy with her hot pink dress on and he was carrying her. >> he's the guy that's got it

Rachel-hatfield , Tim-cherrington , Kind , Car , Shannon-thurman , Nothing , Rachels-soul-mate , Boat , 21 , Family , Two , Todd-winkler

Dateline-20210809-06:48:00

one of the neighbors reached rachel's father. >> and i get a phone call from a screaming, irrational voice on the other end. i said, "is it rachel? " "yes, it's rachel." i said, i have a question for you." "is there a yellow ribbon around the property? " "yes." "is there a big white van in front of the house? " "yes." >> don was in the middle of moving. the movers tried to calm him down. >> and the guys says, "we don't know that she's dead." i said, "count on it, he killed her." and i got there and, you know, she was gone. >> he was right to be begin with. rachel was dead. the horrific news spread. >> i got a call from a friend and i said, "it can't be." and the next thing i knew, i woke up on the floor. >> you fainted? >> i completely blacked out, hit the floor. so i called the sheriff's department and asked them if they knew what was going on. and they said just stay right where you're at. >> james'daughter katelynn got a message at school. >> i walk outside, and i call a family friend, and he goes, "are you sitting down? i think you need to sit down, katelynn." i was like, "what's going on? "

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