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Harris. the issue of busing is where we begin. >> was talking with you and jill. you said you were expecting to have a target on your back. but the intensity of some. did you see the questions about your past positions from the perspective of race being as relevant as they are? >> no. and i don't think they're r relevant because they're taken out of context. what i didn't see was people who know me. i mean they know me well. it's not like somebody that came out of the blue and didn't know anything. it's so easy to go back and go back 30, 40, 50 years and take a context and take it completely o...

President and vice president, we provided money for voluntary busing if cities want to do it. >> i'm not questioning any of that. i'm saying when you look back in the '70s, you said i think busing doesn't work, it's an asinine concept. you tried to pass bills that weren't for it. >> busing did not work. you had overwhelming response from the african-american community in my state. my state is the eighth largest black population in the country as a percent of population. they did not support it. they did not support it. look, the question is how do you equalize education in every area. and i pu...

Record. >> i don't think bussing is about policy. >> no, it is not. >> it is about principle. >> when you look back, you were not in favor of busing. it was a different time and different applications and why not just own it and say i was in favor -- >> i was in favor of busing, if the court ruled there was a law passed through circumstance that a county or city or a state did that prevented black folks from being somewhere, then that is wrong. you should bus. he went so far in the middle of that busing controversy to say i use helicopters if that was necessary to make the point. and we got in...

Saying i'd use helicopters if that was necessary to make the point. what the issue is now and it is then, voluntary busing, we supported it. i supported it then. >> so chris cuomo very rightly said that this isn't necessarily just about the issue of busing. that is not why kamala harris brought this up. maybe that was an issue for her, but she was obviously going for a larger point here. and this is an issue that goes to his record, which he tried to say isn't as relevant. is that going to fly? >> i don't think it is. i think what seems to be missing here is joe biden understanding why people ...

In circumstances that make it difficult. from the time they get to school they have heard three or four, five million words spoken. >> i totally accept that. >> but the idea right now, 65 out of 100 jobs in a study i did for the president point out you need something beyond a high school degree. >> that's true. >> so what are we doing? we're sitting around here as if it's an insoluble problem. >> i get it on the policy. i never have viewed the busing back and forth in that debate as about policy or application of how to effect civil rights. it's about consistency and whether you'll be better t...