playing out in culture right now. >> i mean, what i hope is that if the earth is not an ashen cinder within a year, that hundreds of years from now, cultural historians and anthropologists and archaeologists will watch hgtv and then explain back to me -- >> what happened. >> no, like what it meant. because people do passionately love it. but i can't pinpoint exactly what it is other than the comfort. >> it's fantasy, right. >> that part of it. >> that you can have that happen. >> and there's a bloomberg piece on it. because of the political situation it was sort of escapism. there was another thing that i felt had a breakout year in 2016 which is podcasts. no, seriously. serial was a sort of breakout in 2015 that serial first came out or 2014. >> um, yeah. 2014. >> this is when the medium really exploded. there's a millionifferent genres. i started listening to crime town, about providence, rhode island. >> so good. >> so goodp which i spent four