that has russia invading crimea and ukraine, that has the chinese building new islands in the south china sea, that has literally the world, including north korea, floating american power. flouting american power. we are going to go back to the days of peace through strength. i have to tell you that all this talk about tax returns and i get you want to keep bringing that up. but hillary clinton and herd the husband that the private foundation called the clinton foundation. while she was secretary of day, the clinton foundation accepted tens of millions of dollars from foreign governments and foreign donors. he wanted to know out there,ic this is basic stuff. foreign donors and certainly foreign government cannot participate in the american political process. they cannot make financial contributions that the clintons figured out a way to create a fn foundation were foreign governments donate millions oftn dollars and then we found thanks to the good work of "the associated press" that morning half when she was secretary of a more given to major donors to the clinton nation. when you talk about all thesee cl baseless rumors about russia and the rest, hillary clinton u.s. at the beginning because they are looking at the pay to play politics she operated with the click foundation. they say enough is enough. >> i'm going to talk about the foundation and then i'll talk t about north korea. one of the highest rated charities in the world provides aids, drugs to 11.5 million people and helps americans deal with opioid overdose is.fo it gets higher rankings for charity than the american red the founda. hillary clinton and secretary of state took no action to benefit the foundation. the state department investigation and concluded everything hillary clinton did the secretary of state was completely in the interest of the united states. the foundation does his work and hillary clinton and secretary of state acted in the interest of the united states. let's compare this with the trumpth organization or the trup organization is an organization that tentacles all over the world whose conflict of interest could only be known if donald trump would release his tax returns. he's refused to do it. of his funds has said the organization has allowed his business dealings in russia. the trump organization is notit nonprofit. it puts money into the pockets of the children were clinton foundation is a nonprofit with no clinton family member drawsl. any salary. in addition, donald trump has ae foundation. the foundation was fine for illegally contributing foundations to a political campaign of attorney general. they made an illegal contribution and try to hide it by disguising it to somebody else on the person they donated two with somebody whose office was charged with investigating trump university. this is the difference between a foundation that does good work in a secretary of state who acted with american interests than somebody who is can likely to work around the world a more share with the american public what he's doing and what those conflicts are. >> governor, i will give you dirty seconds to respond. i would her mention about this is about north korea. [laughter] >> thank you aired the trumpis foundation is a private family f foundation that gives every cent to charitable causes. less than 10 cents on the dollar has gone to charitable causes. >> $20,000 -- >> ten cents on the dollar has gone to charitable causes. it has been a platform for the clintons to travel the world to have staff. honestly senator, we would know more of hillary clinton would turn over the 33,000 e-mails. her private server --intelligen >> senator king, if you had intelligence north korea was about to launch a missile, a nuclear armed missile capable of reaching the united states, would you take preemptive action? >> look, a president should take action to defend the unitedth states. you have to appear the president has to do that. you have to determine what your intelligence was, how certain you were, but she would have to take action. u.s. how do we deal with north korea. n i'm on the foreign relationsns committee. we get a package against north korea and interestingly enoughan the u.n. followed virtually the same package. china will use their security council to veto a package like that. they are starting to get worried about north korea, too. even though many of the sanctions against chinese financial institutions. we are working together with china and we need to. china is a relationship or itsng competitive, also challenging and intense like north korea we have to cooperate. hillary understands that very well. she stood up at a human rights maintenance of women's rights are human rights. they didn't want her to say that, but she did. she's also worked on a lot ofe diplomatic and important diplomatic deals with china and that's what it's going to take. the thing i would worry about is donald trump is about $650 million to banks including the bank of china. i'm not sure he could stand up so tight to the people who have learned him money. >> her next segment now and i'd like to focus on social issues. you have both been open about the role the state has helped play in your lives. can you discuss in detail a time when you struggle to balance their personal faith and public policy position.is senator kaine.r >> that is an easy one for me. unfortunate group and a wonderful also the great irish catholic parents. mom and dad are sitting here. i was educated by chester at nia 43 unions in 10 days and i worked with jesuit missionaries in honduras now nearly 35 years ago and they were the heroes of my life. i try to practice my religion in a very devout way following the teachings of my church in my own personal life. but i don't believe in this first amendment nation where we don't raise any religion over the other and we allow people to worship as they please. the doctrines of any onere religion should be mandated for everyone.ai the struggle in my lifeless catholic churches in the death penalty so am i. i was governor of the state. estefan said there was a death penalty for crimes determined to be heinous. i had to grapple with that. when i was running for governor, i was attacked strongly because of my position on the death penalty. how much voters of virginia and the eye that this is my religion. i'm not going to change my religious practice to get one though.etet i know how to uphold the law. i was elected in a day. it is difficult to allow executions to go forth but in circumstances where it didn't feel like there is a case for clemency had told virginia voters i would uphold the law and i did. i was a real struggle. i think it is really important that we don't feel like we could substitute a room views for everybody else in society regardless. >> governor pants. >> it's a wonderful question anti-christian faith is the heart of who i am. i was also raised in a wonderful family of faith. it was the church on sunday morning and grace before dinner. my question faith became real for me when i made a personal decision through christ when i was a freshman in college and i try to live that out however perfectly everyday of my wife said to my wife at my site could recall a a college in the public service. we've tried to keep faith in the values that we cherish, which regard to when i struggle, i appreciate and i have a great deal of respect for senator kaine sincere faith. i truly do. but for me, i would tell you for me the sanctity of life proceeds out of the belief that ancient print the ball bird god says before you reform, so for mymy first night in public life i thought to stand with greati tr compassion for the sanctity of life. the state of indiana as also sought to make sure we expand alternatives in health care count link for women. non-abortion alternatives. i'm also pleased we are well underway in indiana to becoming the most productions did in america. if you are pro-life, you should be production. what i can't understand is hillary clinton and now senator came at her side, to support a practice like partial-birth abortion and i know senator kaine, you hold pro-life views personally. the very idea that a child is almost born into the world could still have their life taken from them ikea conscience about a party that supports that. i know you've historically oppose tax air funding, that hillary clinton wants to repeal the long-standing provision inee the law where we said we didn't use taxpayer dollars to fund abortion. for me, i try and spend time on my knees every day. they are cherishing the value of every human life. >> this is a fundamental question. her methodist church experience was really formative for her as a public servant, but we reallyu feel like you should live fully elected tuesday as an in-your-face. it is not to mandate that for everybody else. the talk about abortion and choice. we support roe versus wade. we support the constitutional right of american women to consult their own conscience. their own supportive minister and make their own decision that is something we trust american women to do that and we don't think that women should be punished as donald trump said for making the decision to have an abortion. governor pence wants to repeal roe versus wade. we have some young people in the audience who weren't even born when it was decided. this is really important. before roe versus wade thomas vasser has criminalized to do just that, punish women if theyn made the choice to terminate a pregnancy. i think you should live yourur moral values that the last thing, the very last thing theg government should do is have laws that would punish women to make the choice is and that is the fundamental difference between the clinton can take it. >> it's really not. donald trump and i would never support legislation and punish women who made the heartbreaking choice to end a pregnancy. >> why would he say that? >> look, he's not a polished politician.y i'm telling you -- >> the fullness of the heart now speaks to the donald trump says women should be punished -- john mccain is not a hero. he is showing you who he is. >> senator, he whipped out that mexican thing again. there are criminal aliens in this country, tim, who are, who have come into this country illegally who are perpetrating violence. >> he also said many of them are good people. if you want to go there i will go there. there is a choice here and it's a choice at night. i couldn't be more proud to be standing with donald trump who is standing for the right to life. it's the principle that senator came in very gentle about this because they do was ikea. it's a principle that youle embrace and i appreciate the fact you supported the hyde amendment which bans the use of taxpayer funding but that is not hillary clinton see how. people need to understand we c could come together as a nation. we can create a culture of life. more and more people are embracing life because we know we are better for it. like mother theresa said at the famous national -- let's welcome the children. there are so many families around the country who can't have children. the families that can't have children can adapt. >> they are making this a choice for themselves. we can encourage people of course we can. why don't you trust women? why doesn't donald trump trust women to make this choice for themselves? that's what we ought to be doing. living a life of faith and motivation within tuesday afternoon excitement, commencing each other, dialoguing because p fundamental issues of moralityta wish above women make their own. >> society can be judged by how it deals with its most vulnerable.it the affirmed, disabled and the unborn. i couldn't be more proud to be standing with a pro-life candidate and donald trump. >> one final question for you both tonight. senator kaine, if your ticket wins, what specifically are you going to do to unify the country and reassure the people who voted against you? >> that's a really one. that may be the $64,000.1. hillary is running a campaign about stronger together and donald trump and this is not directed at this man except that you can't defend donald trump. donald trump has run a campaign but we do have to bring the country together. so here is what we will do. hillary clinton was first lady and then senator for years and secretary of state. i'm really amazed at the top two republican senators how well they regard and respect her. she was on the armed services committee, other committee spears she worked across themm aisle when she was first lady to get the chip program pass at 8 million more have health insurance in this country including 150,000 p. she worked across the aisle to get health benefits for the first responders into the towers andhe the pentagon. she went to get tri-care benefits including who shares and virginians. she has a track record of working across the aisle to mako it happen. i was the governor of virginia with two republican house is. i have built working relationships across the aisle. after election day, they worked together in hillary clinton has a track record of accomplishment across the aisle that will enable her to do just that when we work in the congress in january. >> governor, how do she unify the country? >> is for a great discussion. thank you, senator. it's a very challenging time inn our nation. the leadership of hillary clinton and barack obama on the world stage has been followed by an economy that is truly struggling by an avalanche of more attacks to come a more a regulation that obamacare, warren cole and put american workers in the backseat. the best way we can bring people together is through change in washington d.c. i served in washington d.c. in w the congress of the united states and i served with many republicans and democrats, mene and women of goodwill. the potential is there to changi the direction of this country but it's going to take leadership to do it. people want to see a nation and in tallinn the world stage again. they want to see us supporting our military, rebuilding our military, and they want to see the american economy off to the races again. the entire career has been about going through hardship just likq a business person that, finding a way smart ingenuity to fight forward. when donald trump becomes president of the united states will have a stronger america. when he wants to make america great again, when we do that, i truly do believe the american people will be standing tall. real change can happen after decades of talking about it. the american people will stand tall, stand together and haveto the unity missing for way too long. >> gentlemen, thank you so much. this concludes the vice presidential debate. my thanks to the candidates, the commission on you for watching. please tune in the senate for the second presidential debate at washington university in st. louis in the final debate on october 19th at the university of nevada, las vegas. from farmville, virginia, i am sad mix of cbs news. good night. 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[inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations]ased a [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] up, lv [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations]we [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] >> both vice presidential candidates are back on the campaign trail a day after their one and only debate. indiana governor mike pence will be holding a rally in harrisonburg virginia today. c-span love live coverage at 11:30 a.m. eastern. here on c-span2 we will be live at 12:40 p.m. eastern when ford motor company executive chair bill ford talks at the economic club of washington, d.c. he will be interviewed by carlyle group had david rubenstein. we look back on the campaign trail when senator tim kaine campaigns in philadelphia where he is expected to lay out the clinton campaign for jobs. watch it live on c-span. >> the second presidential debate is sunday evening at washington university in st. louis, missouri. watch live coverage at 730 eastern for preview at the 8:30 p.m. eastern the predebate briefing for the audience. at 9 p.m. live coverage of the debate followed by the reaction with your calls, tweets and comments. the second debate watch live on c-span, anytime on-demand at c-span.org and listen live on the free c-span radio app. >> hurricane matthew remains a threat to the u.s. mainland this week. the international space station tweeted out this video this morning of hurricane as the vehicle flew 250 miles over the massive storm today. it is predicted to hit florida tomorrow morning. and congress members along the storm's path are offering safety tips. if you haven't already purchased supplies, gas up, take out cash and make a hurricane plan for your family. south carolina congressman mark sanford and son residents to leave low-lying areas, protect windows with boards or storm shutters and secure outside objects, have several days worth of food and water on hand. >> the missouri press association hosted a gubernatorial debate between democrat chris koster and republican eric greitens and candidates from the libertarian, and green party. >> thank you, dennis. and again welcome to the 2016 candidate forums hosted by the missouri press association. earlier today candidates in kunar so determine the order in which they will be making opening remarks. closing remarks will be made in reverse order. i am going to introduce the candidates to you in the order of their opening remarks. first, independent candidate lester turilli. green party candidate don fitz. enoch pratt chris koster. republican eric greitens -- [applause] and a libertarian cisse spragins. after their opening statements i will ask the first question and then will proceed to questions from our three panelists. our three panelists today seated in front, the st. joseph news press, carol start of the joplin globe, and the washington missouri and. candidates will have one minute to answer each question, after each test that they turn an additional i will decide if any rebuttal time is necessary and if so they will have an additional 30 seconds. rebuttals will be reserved only for those particular candidates involved in a tactic of a candidate fails to answer a question, i also reserve the right to prod them to try again. signs will be held up in the front row showing the time remaining during remarks. candidates and please adhere to the stop sign, and audience, please hold your applause until the event is over. with that let's begin. earlier this year ms. richard national attention for legislation that would have barred government penalties against certain institutions and businesses that cite religious beliefs while declining to provide wedding related services to same-sex couples. that issue is likely to be back again on the legislative agenda in january. >> david, are we doing opening statements? >> moderator: i thought i would skip those today. [laughter] let's do that. what's a good debate without -- lester, you're up first. >> thank you. it's a privilege to speak before this morning. my name is lester turilli, and i am the only independent on the state. i have no party affiliation. i have no special endorsements or special interests. i'm not a politician. i am a family man. i'm a businessman. my family business is merrimack caverns. my great grandfather started that 83 years ago. i've been an executive there for the last 25 years. during that time i have employed thousands of missourians. i have the past and the present experience to govern this state. part of the reason i run it because i'm concerned for the future of our state and our kids. my hearts desire is to serve god, and to serve the people of missouri, and that's what i am running governor. thank you. >> moderator: don fitz speakers are what you think the press association provided all candidates to participate and not just the two candidates of the big money parties. there are important issues which i hope this discussion will focus on. issues such as we need to have clean air and water standards in missouri that are stricter than federal guidelines. we need to replace nuclear and coal power with wind and solar power. we must repeal the misnamed right to form an independent study we must encourage farmers to produce the products that are free of herbicides, pesticides and genetic organisms. we must reserve the right to have guns, but we must have permits after training for those guns and we must have a ban on assault weapons. we must end mass incarceration. we must end the death penalty and we must end extrajudicial executions by police officers. >> moderator: chris koster? >> i hope we can set aside political rhetoric today and talk about what we can accomplish if we worked together over the next four years. my hope is we can create a funding plan for the missouri department of transportation so the 34,000 miles of roads stop crumbling of we put 681 bridges, many of them in the senator's district, back into commission. we want to keep the promise that we've made for missouri schoolchildren and in this era of underfunding public education across missouri. we want to bring economic development incentives back online to recruit light manufacturing companies to urban centers in rural missouri alike. open up international trade offices of farmers have foreign markets to sell their goods into. and give police the tools they need to clean up the streets. i know these two political parties perhaps as well as any person in the state of missouri. i look forward to working cooperatively and respectfully across party lines to bring progress to missouri. >> moderator: eric greitens? >> i am eric greitens. i've never one for political office. i'm a navy seal, entrepreneur and a husband and father. when i came home from serving in their back i saw a problem. generation of veterans being broken industry to. these brave men and women have gone overseas for us. minicam him wounded and disabled. what happened is that you'll from the government and attempted to simply check and forgot about them. i saw the potential that these men and women outside donated by combat pay and we started an organization, the nation continues to our returning veterans come on back it only private sector jobs to start and run their own businesses and to serve again here ago. we transform thousands of lives and today veterans who often have trouble getting out of bed are now caring for their children and leading again in our community. i'm running for governor because missouri is a great state full of promise and potential of were being held back by career politicians who because of their cowardice and the corruption shrink from facing the hard problems are all around us. my opponent chris koster has been in office for more than 20 years. we have all seen what's happened. under his leadership misery has become a state known for serial corruption, national embarrassment and epic fairly. we saw the violence and lawlessness in ferguson. i think we have to minister opening statements? -- two minutes? i know that we can do better than what we've had and i'm excited to bring more jobs, higher pay, safer streets of better schools to the people of missouri. >> moderator: cisse spragins. >> i would like to thank the press association for inviting all the candidates on the ballot. a little bit about my background i grew up on a farm in west tennessee and i studied physics and got a ph.d in physics from university of wisconsin-madison. in 1998 i moved to minneapolis and i started a manufacturing company making pest-control products. in that this is my major competitors were all like for multinational corporations so it was summer to run for office as a libertarian. in 1984 i supported jesse jackson, sorry. i supported ronald reagan. in 1980 i supported jesse jackson preshot always been a libertarian. personal choice and personal responsibility have always made sense to me. government has become too large and too intrusive in our lives. if we don't change course radically we will have the first generation of americans that lead this country in search of greater opportunity elsewhere. >> moderator: now we will go into questions. you had a preview earlier. so earlier this year missouri drew national attention for legislation that would have barred the government penalties against certain institutions and businesses that fight religious beliefs while declining to provide wedding related services to same-sex couples. that issue is likely to be back on the legislative agenda in january. you support such legislation, or do you support efforts by others to add sexual orientation and gender identity to missouri's nondiscrimination laws? this question goes first to you, lester turilli. >> that's a big question. i do support that litigation. i do believe that religious institutions are separate, as such they should be able to speak and perform duties that are innate to that particular denomination or religion. and if you're asking for a solution to that problem, we need to allow those marriages that are seeking those to go to places that are neutral, and that it doesn't violate the principles of the religious organization. as far as -- what was the second half of the question? i'm sorry. >> moderator: how do gender identity and sexual orientation to nondiscrimination laws. >> i would advocate against that simply because i think if that was brought to our legislator as we said, we would probably make more discrimination prevalent in our state. >> moderator: don fitz? >> there's been entirely too much hate in missouri politics come into united states politics over the last several years. there's been hate directed at people because of their gender preference and their sexual orientation. there's been a directed at people because they're muslim. there's been a directive people because -- looking for better jobs for mexico. of course, about any hate against people coming from canada looking for jobs in united states because their skin color happens to be white instead of ground. any sort of law that would discriminate allow discrimination of summary because of their sexual preference or sexual orientation is something which would absolutely be banned in missouri. there is absolutely no question but we should amend nondiscrimination in order to include sexual preference and gender orientation. >> moderator: chris koster? >> i'm and yes the passage of the missouri nondiscrimination act. i have a policy like that in my office. if it is not passed by the legislature on the continued governor nixon's executive order in favor of nondiscrimination as governor. i believe missouri should protect religious leaders from having to dissipate in ceremonies that are against their faith, but beyond that i do not think our state should fly a flag of discrimination over the business community. states that have engaged in this or florida would like indiana and south carolina have seen not only a national -- place upon them, have also seen hundreds of about the economic decline. convention is over, headquarters that if left. i believe economic growth in the future of this country is correlated with cultural openness and economic decline is correlated with stagnation and prejudice. >> moderator: try to look, i served as a u.s. navy seal in the military in which were able to put back everybody religious freedom all the time ensuring not just commission. it's pretty common sense anything the people of missouri agree. no pastor, no priest, no rabbi should ever be forced to participate in a ceremony that they disagree with. there are ways to do this, to make sure we're protecting religious freedom while at the same time ensuring not just commission and we don't have leaders in missouri were willing to stand up for people who need protection. unfortunately, my opponent chris koster was one of only four senators who voted against a bill that would've protected the privacy of rape victims so that they could maintain the privacy and not be found by the abuses. he is one of only four senators who voted for the bill which would've made rape victims pay for their own rape kits. we need to have leaders willing to stand up and protect people. chris, i think you should link to the women of missouri and to the families of missouri why you believe that a woman who has been raped has to pay for her own rape kits. >> moderator: cisse spragins. >> i support the american value of freedom of association and the separation of church and state. so no, i don't think that a pastor should have to perform a ceremony for a gay couple if that's not their belief. .. on the topic on the book about rape legislation. >> yes, i wonder if my college to the left has read the bill. it allows the possibility of killers who have been put behind bars for life without parole to be let out, potentially and manufactured evidence that is why i voted against the bill. i think it is also why your lieutenant governor candidate, mark-- mike parson voted against the bill and i think it might have something to do with the reason the fraternal order of police have endorsed me and your lieutenant governor candidate. >> 30 seconds. >> i did read the bill and you are lying about what's in the bill. what's in the bill was clear. it said women who have been repeatedly assaulted and abused for years who finally took action against their abusers and killed that men were sent to jail said if they were in jail, that after 15 years they would have the opportunity to be eligible for probation and that is what the bill said. you need to apologize to the women of misery and the families around missouri. >> we will have to move on to question number two and that comes from 10 newton. >> thank you for all the candidates taking part here today. many observers nationally say this race will decide whether misery becomes a right to work state. if you become governor and the legislature sends to your desk a right to work the what will you do. >> this first goes to donna. >> i would veto any thing which is a right to work bill. however we need to go beyond that in terms of defending labor rights and make sure we have a 15-dollar an hour minimum wage for restaurant workers in agriculture workers. we need a whole series of labor legislation to protect workers in addition to the right to work. we also need to be suspicious of candidates like chris koster who says he is against the right to work, but search warrant-- supported the right to farm the right to farm destroys the rights of american farmers and it is in the constitution, and enterprise, a business as a corporation as a person and that is why it's very important to repeal that. >> chris koster. >> i would veto a right to work bill. i have wealthy folks who approach me around the state of missouri and tell me they think our state would be a better place if folks who got paid by the hour actually made less money, but when i talk to the woman at the grocery store who stocks the shelves and she's making $11 an hour, she tells me her life would be harder to put food on the table if she made $9.50 an hour. no matter how you slice it, right to work states earn about 15% less income than non- right to work state's. mysteries income last year rose by about 3.%, but the average of right to work states across the country was 3.2%, 15% less. in 2014 the state of kansas, iowa, indiana and arkansas all right to work states grew more slowly than missouri, illinois and kentucky. i am running for governor to fight for working people in the state, not against them. >> eric. >> i will sign it right work legislation. as governor, we need in missouri more jobs and higher pay. is very clear that right to work the next two more job and higher pay. if you look over the course of the next-- last decade the bureau of labor statistics say the right to work legislation grew job 60% more. our fellow midwestern states like indiana michigan that have signed right to work are leading the country number one and number to a new job growth. tennessee has twice as many new manufacturing jobs as we do here in the state of missouri. i will sign right to work legislation because it is good for missouri families and we need to have leaders who are willing to do that. my opponent, chris koster, has taken over $8 million from the union bosses, over $8 million from union bosses and that's with striving his economic plan. i know from having started and run my own business, having worked with veterans as they have come home that we have to turn missouri's economy around and that's what i'm going to do when i'm governor. >> cisse spragins. >> i support the right to work for any individual for themselves or any business that wishes to hire them. i am in favor of voluntary human trait, human contracted human interaction. if businesses want to hire someone they should and if they don't want to hire someone and they shouldn't. conversely, if a employee wants to work for a business they should and if they don't wish to then they shouldn't. businesses should be free to contact-- contract with employees without government interference in current right to work legislation basically says it prohibits employers from charging union dues to employees that have a union. i support employees forming a union and i also support businesses who decide to recognize that union and negotiate or choose not to and i'm actually interested in voluntary human interaction, human trading and contracting with one another, not by government force. >> lester turilli. >> right to work divides our state. we got the right over here wanting to pass it. we have the last holding blue. here's the solution, grandfather in all current businesses that are union labor forces right now. let our labor unions keep working in missouri. for any new business that wants to come to missouri, starting in 2017, they can be right to work. solves both sides of the equation. thank you. >> next question comes from carol stark. >> good afternoon and thank you for being with us today. the last couple of years our legislature has turned down federal dollars when it comes to medicaid expansion. the reason that largely they give is that in the future, our budget would not be able to pay the state's share of that. do you think that is a valid reason or a legitimate reason for continuing to turn down those federal dollars and not expand medicaid in the state of missouri? wire why not? >> this question goes first to chris koster. >> the state of missouri right now is losing a rural hospital in our state every eight months and has been for about the last three half years. we lost a hospital in all seal a vernon, springfield, farmington and it is because the economics of healthcare has changed and unfortunately unless we adapt to the new reality we will in all likelihood continue to lose ground in rural health care crisis state the federal government is trying to send missourians back money that we've sent to them, $2 billion a year. this $2 billion would be invested in, not only the largest cities, but across the state in places where we have difficulty getting economic development money like tipton. it will create 40000 or jobs and improve the health care of about 300,000 missourians and as governor i would like to work across party lines to find a solution to bring those $2 billion in 20 healthcare system. >> eric greitens. >> chris is a career politician, spent over 20 years in politics and he's not telling you the truth about obamacare. obamacare is a broken program full of broken promises. they told people you could keep your doctor, where you couldn't. they tell people your premiums would go down and they went up and it states that have expanded obamacare, they are actually going bankrupt. ohio, they promised the people of ohio that expanding obamacare would cost $3.8 billion. in fact, it cost them $6.9 billion and in the state of washington, $2.3 billion in biannual budget. these days are going bankrupt in this is a clear choice. if you support obama care, if you want more obamacare and if you want as chris koster said his top priority is expanding obamacare, you should vote for hillary clinton and chris koster. if you are opposed to obamacare, i am here to earn your vote. >> cisse spragins. >> we need a free market in medical care and reduce the cost, not by stealing money from one group of people to give it to another to create false jobs and that chris koster is talking about, but rather to encourage innovation, to eliminate certificate of need for the construction of new hospitals that is a current missouri requirement and to eliminate the problem where businesses cannot buy insurance across state line. we need to deregulate health care, remove licensing requirement to allow more people to practice medical care and to allow especially consumers to choose medical care that is their choice, not what the government has decided constitutes medical care. we know obamacare is a disaster. you just have to look at your health insurance premiums and as a business owner i pay premiums and has gone up by a factor premium-- of three. what we are doing is working. just taking money from the federal government that we ultimately will not be able to sustain is not managing it. >> lester turilli. >> i am fiscally conservative, but i have a heart for people. there's a funding gap between obamacare and medicaid and that's what we're talking about. i do believe in extending medicaid to cover those folks. i do believe that we should take advantage of some of the federal money, for the time being as long as obamacare is still in place to help our people. now, chris has made a misrepresentation of the facts. it would create about 4000 jobs. you can go to families usa.org for a fact check on that. but come i do agree, it would help our economy, but more and portly this is about helping people. >> dawna fits. >> we must expand medicaid. half of farming in camp for family farmers in missouri has fallen over half the last few years and many farmers are on the level of poverty because of this falling income, but expanding medicaid is not enough. we must have medicare for all, not just those people over 65. i work with missourians for single pair to develop a plan that will soon be on a website which explains how medicare for all program would work in missouri. one thing we need to realize is that if we answer insurance companies in between a patient and the doctor that is not going to save money. it's only going to get the insurance company a cut of the money. by removing the insurances-- insurance command having medicare for all we will actually lower health costs while providing more healthcare. let's remember over 90% of missouri families are only one help disaster way from poverty. expanding medicaid and cree medicare for all will solve that >> next question from bill miller. >> again, thank you to all of you for being here today. happy to see your smiling faces. my question has to do with transportation. i think that most missourians realize our transportation infrastructure has followed-- fallen behind and i would like to hear from you what plan you have to do something about that, funding plan and how you attack lit. >> this question goes first to eric greitens. >> look, bill, we have a major problem here in the state of missouri. we have 3500 bridges structurally deficient and you travel around the state of missouri, everyone recognizes we need to invest more money in our roads, bridges, ports, but what also happens when you travel around is that yes people should we invest more money and everyone says yes and then you ask of them do you trust the government of the state of missouri and career politicians like chris koster to invest your money wisely and they all say no. they don't trust was happening and governments. we need to reestablish trust in government and that's why i have said from the beginning when i'm governor i will ban gifts from lobbyists, close the revolving door between legislatures and special interest and put in place term limits. we will build a budget that meets the needs of the people of missouri and that includes investing in infrastructure. my opponent, chris koster, was on the front page of the "new york times" is one of the most corrupt attorney generals in the country. the people of missouri do not trust career crooked politicians and they are not going to trust them to invest their tax dollars wisely. we need to read and establish trusting. >> cisse spragins. >> if we look at every problem area in a society whether it is transportation or schools or whatever, you find it's an area that has been monopolized by government. maybe we should begin to recognize that trend and realize that government monopoly for the last 100 years in certain areas is not working and do something differently. i agree with eric greitens that people do not trust politicians to spend money that they collecting taxes appropriately and it's been demonstrated time and time again. if you concentrate too much power in the hands of governments, it's going to be corrupt. that's why you have lobbyists. if you did not have the power in government you would not have lobbyists. we need to look at innovation and new ideas with regard to our infrastructure and look to privatize these areas and breaking the free market solutions that will bring prosperity to our state. >> lester turilli. >> rose-- roads and bridges is a tough topic. like eric greitens said most missourians want to change, but they are not wanting to go forth with the expense that it will require. there is a safety issue or? name: out to writing my harley davidson i am out for potholes and crowns on the road. it can be dangerous. it will have to be done through a couple of ways. it to a hunt to take place through gas tax, temporary, minimal and that money will have to be directly appropriated to the roads and bridges for that season. when that is done, remove the gas tax. the other way we can do it is through an entry toll into the state of missouri. we would do that on out-of-state vehicles only for short tollroad, just a few miles or less and the rollover money that we accumulate from that toll could be put into other roads and bridges. >> don fitz. >> i think a lot of this know it's the department of transportation is a newspaper after newspaper for wasting $7 million on taxpayer money. that does not help having enough funds available to repair up a series bridges, which are desperately in need of repair. unlike chris koster i am totally against having a gas tax which only hurts the poorest residents of greater proportion of their funds will be spent on the gas tax than would be of rich missourians. instead, i would propose a graduated income tax for the highest 1% paid overwhelming majority and the rest seized zero increase in taxes, but i think the question of how transportation is approached as bigger than how we prepare roads. in the urban center of missouri we must look for other modes of transportation, redesign the urban course of people can make the overwhelming majority of their track by walking, bicycling and using mass transportation and we need it developed working with engineers in order to make those changes possible. >> chris koster with. >> one of the dangers of electing an inexperienced governor is that not only might they not understand the solution, they often don't understand the question. that a permanent transportation for last two years has been downsizing prepared for this day. they have laid off 1200 missouri workers, sold over 700 pieces of larger quick and closed over 124 minutes barnes and shut down a large division office in macon , willow springs in joplin and in all three of those they have in common that they are all in rural missouri. as soon as this election is over it will be imperative that a bipartisan funding solution with knowledgeable members of both parties and the senators and leaders of the second house come together and fill the 202 met 500 million-dollar hold that has accumulated in this state annually in the department of transportation budget. i look forward to working respectfully with these leaders to a college that. >> david, can i just say chris says i don't get it. >> i will give you 30 seconds rebuttal if you need that. go-ahead. >> chris says i don't get it and the fact is, chris, you don't get it and what you don't get is that government isn't working. it's not working for the people of missouri. it might be working for you in the special interest insiders and your political cronies, but it's not what you for the people of missouri. when we see a career politician like you spend $3.2 million to redecorate your office, they know your priorities are not the priorities of people missouri. people want a leader who is going to step forward and address these problems and to solve these problems, chris, and that's what i will do when i'm governor. >> chris koster, you 30 seconds. >> this issue of redecorating the office, he's talking about a building that i do not working. of the carpet in my office was picked out by georgia nixon about 40 years ago and you're welcome to come by. my office looks like the green bay packer locker room. we tour's pesticide of a building that was seeping water through the mold and had no windows and the vote was unanimous when the -- within the legislature of the state to fix a building was that was part of the aging infrastructure of jefferson city. >> we need to move to the next question and can newton, that comes from you. >> many of the national rankings have missouri in the 30s or lower among states in education funding k-12 achievements and many other categories. what would you do to raise educational opportunities above a c grade. >> cisse spragins, you are the first one on this question. >> we currently at the state level spent in about five and half or more on education and we collect another 4 billion in taxes at the property level for local schools for actual funding. i would get rid of the state department of education because we are basically paying about 2000 bureaucrats to do a lot of stuff that hasn't contributed to improving education work if we want to do something for the children of this state, then we shouldn't break-- bankrupt them for the future and destroy their opportunity for prosperity. we need to return education to local control, get out of federal programs, we should not be receiving federal dollars and the caveats i go with that work we should be returning it to local and parental control. people can educate their children in the manner they see fit. >> lester turilli. >> well, i like to say something about my office, if i may. my business was flooded this year and i had 5-foot of water, floodwater in my office and i'm operating off of a three by six plastic table. i fully fund-- fully fund schools. my wife is a teacher. have a unique perspective on the school system. i'm a parent. i have three children. my oldest is an adult and i had to teenagers. it's a vital that we give our teachers 100% of what they need. they are on the front lines with our kids every single day. i also believe in giving our local school districts the ability to pick and choose the curriculum as long as it meets the guidelines. i also want to copy school districts that are performing well and implement those into the ones that are suffering. >> don fitz. >> i have mentioned before that there is plenty money available to improve the schools if we had a steeply graduated income tax and i think the question is much much deeper. how to improve education in missouri and general? one of the first things we need to do is to stop standardized tests were children spend day after day performing on standardized tests. we need to abolish that from kindergarten through the third grade and through the high school years there should be no more than one date per year devoted to standardized test i'm a product of the public school system and spent my entire school in its public school pick my children went to public school and then they went through the committee college system. we need to abolish charter schools. we need to phase them out make sure schools are not privatized. we need to make sure students have jobs, guaranteed jobs when they get out of school pick a lot of the problems we see is that students from low income areas they why should i get an education if i'm just not going on a job afterwards and we need to have guarantee of jobs for those students who graduate from the 12th grade. >> chris koster. >> number one in my agendas make sure we keep their promise to the schoolchildren by fully funding missouri's foundation formula which has been underfunded for a long time number two, we have 18 school districts in the state of missouri that only have 10 classes four days a week. they go to school monday through thursday, 40 schools, 10000 children in this state. if i'm governor of the state every child will go to school five days a week. we will raise teacher salaries and raise teacher quality at the same time so we put in standards so the best and brightest are in our schools teaching children. finally, i want to give flexibility to district because one size does not fit all and give districts the opportunity to go about the 174 date school limits. we have one of the shortest school years in the nation giving school the opportunity if they choose to go above the 174 date limits is something i would support. >> eric greitens. >> big government liberals like chris koster think that answer to everything is spending more money. the facts are clear, missouri spends about the national average on our kids in schools, but we are 40th in teacher pay and 47th in starting teacher pay. we need to make sure that money actually makes it to the teachers in the kids. that it actually makes it into the classroom because of the big government policies that folks like chris koster, we've seen the failure in missouri schools. only 2.7% of african-american kids in missouri graduate from high school having passed one single advanced placement class, third were stricken nation. we have 276 of our school districts in missouri where last year, not a single kid passed a single advanced placement class. only one in three of our fourth graders are reading at proficiency. we can do better, but in order to do that we have to fight against big government programs and put power in the hands of teachers and parents. my mom was in early childhood special education teacher. she did that work for over 30 years and i saw her work with kids who had down syndrome, asperger's and severe disabilities. those kids deserve a fair chance at the american dream and we need to make sure we put power in the hands of their parents so they can make sure they design and education system that works for them. >> next question from carol stark. >> one of you will be our next governor and as such, one of your primary tasks is making sure that missouri has a balanced budget. we have talked a lot about some of the budget challenges that are ahead of us. can you cite some of them that might not be so obvious to all of us can make this question goes first to lester turilli. >> as a businessman, operating in the business world for the last 30 years of my life and operating in several different businesses i know it takes about a budget. if you don't balance a budget as a small business owner, you are not going to be in operation the next year or you will operate at a deficit. i think that balancing missouri budget is not very difficult issue. it's going to take working with the house and the senate, though, to make sure we are both on the same line in some different areas. one area that i would like probably to increase a little funding to would be the department of mental health. we are suffering in that area. buzz, there are some different areas that working with the legislatures, that we could come to agreement. >> don fitz. >> as i have already mentioned there are ways the money is being wasted in the state of murder-- missouri to the tune of $7 million. another area which is huge that missouri is proportionally dedicated to mass incarceration, to arrest huge numbers of people for the crime of driving while black or doing something like smoking a little bit of marijuana. if-- these are ridiculous. we could empty huge numbers of missouri prisons. it's much less costly to treat people in the community for drug offenses than it is to build more and more prisons to treat them there and for mental health offenders a lot of the police training is about how to do with mental health issues and would keep mental health clients are going to jail, but the issues we really need to look at closely our taxes. there are two problems with taxes. one is we need to eliminate the sales tax. there should be no sales tax. another problem is that the income tax really needs to be graduated sharply and let the 1%, the richest 1% pay the overwhelming majority. >> chris koster. >> press the biggest economic challenge the state faces at this moment is simply the current state of the budget itself. about consensus revenue estimate last year was 44% growth, but we did not start the year where we thought. we started 2% less because last year didn't end as well as we had help. so, to make all of the budget trains reach the same place at the unit of the fiscal year we will have to travel 6% of growth. now, right now the end of the first quarter we are moving at about a 2% pace. governor nixon has withheld $1,150,000,000 for the consternation of many, but he is pretty in his judgment on this. the hope is that the economy will pick up and if the economy does not pick up the next governor whoever that is on this stage will be looking at potential for additional withholds and that is before we even go back in january and look at the supplemental request. so, we are in tough budgetary sweating right now and i think it is prudent for every missouri into at least recognize that. >> eric greitens. >> is the problem politicians like chris koster put us in. we have a 27 billion-dollar budget in the state of missouri , $27 billion, but when you look through that entire budget, there are no measurements for performance and accountability. we need to have a governor that will insist on account ability and result in every department of government. other states have done this, indiana actually went through and made-- they cleaned up their roles to stop paying unemployment to people who were jailed. ohio instituted a program called clean ohio where they were able to reduce the amount of time it took in their picture met process for the ohio turnpike authority from 90 days to my country five days. this is not magic, but you need a leader willing to insist on results and accountability at every level of government. what i'm governor i will bring with me 18 of the people who have also successfully run businesses, run hospitals, run universities and we will appoint a chief operating officer whose every day will wake up and make sure that we are ready and efficient government with a focus on results and accountability. that is the kind of leadership that we need in the state of missouri. >> mai-- >> cisse spragins. >> first, i would like to point out that i'm very happy that the state can't print money the way the federal government does and that signifies the equation. i agree with lester turilli in regard to letting people at a prison. i don't agree with much else he said, but i agree we should basically pardon all nonviolent drug offenders and anyone else incarcerated for a victimless crime in this state. that will save money. otherwise, in order to solve budgetary problems we basically have to increase freedom government does too much. government controls too much. government grows every year and every year we hear about how government doesn't have enough money to do this or have enough money to do that. perhaps, the government should do less versus getting to the point where there is no way to ever have any government official will ever say they have enough money. >> eric introduce the topic of performance budgeting. chris, would you like 30 seconds. >> eric articulated that he was to hire as his first act in office a chief operating officer. that issue, eric. that is what they are trying to hire-- >> actually, operating officers. >> the governor is the person who runs the budget and if you don't know enough to operate the state of missouri, then you should not apply for the job, my friend. >> chris is a deeply confused career politician. he does not understand the difference between a ceo, chris, chief executive offer and a chief operating officer. chris, i have run a business. you haven't picked in a business and effectively run business is that you have someone who's looking every single day at how you drive efficiency in government. as governor i will as the ceo look at cleaning up some of the big problems you have created like the problems in public safety. there's a difference between a ceo nse 00, and the fact that you don't know it, that you don't understand what it takes to run a business or enterprise is one of the reasons why the people of missouri cannot elect another crooked career politician's. >> we need to go to the next question from the audience. [applause]. >> audience, please hold your applause. >> i have listened to several of you speak and in one of eric greitens's talks in our town he said that government is broken at all levels. some of the hard-working volunteer public servants who serve on city councils and so on have told me they felt that was somewhat insulting and i would like to know, do all of you feel that government at every level is a broken québec this goes first to don fitz. >> absolutely government at all levels is broken and we can start with the governor's race of missouri where big-money candidates put themselves on tv. implying the way to solve your political problems is to grow and kill someone. in the area where i live in st. louis, that is really not a good message to give to young people. we need to have some sort of moral challenges and moral standards for people who run for public office and either the-- the democrat nor the republican are willing to do that. we know after michael brown was killed in ferguson, that there were over a 10 people who were appalled at the level of racism in missouri. waited eric koster do? he celebrated the death of michael brown by executing a black man within a month of michael brown's death same missouri should be in the top of killing people if it helps advance a political career. with you politicians who do things like this you cannot have moral trust in them around the of the government. >> chris koster, your next. >> i believe that what we need to do to approve a government that can be improved is to make sure that what is inherently in the dna of the state, which is small conservative government that has low taxation and business friendly regulation and a aaa bond rating remains intact. what is not been done in this state over the last 15 years or so is the other aspects that bring balance to government. we haven't been investing in our workforce in the world of economic development we call it workforce develop met, but in the real world we just call it education. higher education in this state has been cut by 40%. the k-12 budget, foundation formula itself has seen about a 25% decline. we also have a field to make the investments in the of the structure that our economy runs, so new investment that we talked about transportation, healthcare and in new energy grid that will bring conservation, new transmission lines and other resources to this state are things that the next administration should be investing in. >> eric greitens. >> bill, if you had seen what happened to my friends that served in iraq and afghanistan and when they came home in the treatment they got at the va you would recognize the government is broken when you see the people of missouri see what happened in ferguson, you recognize government is broken and the one of the reasons government is broken because with career politicians who put politics first. chris koster, our attorney general supposed to be the chief one person officer of our state and when he showed up in ferguson, one of the person seated was he said, can we fire during wilson. he did this before he knew the facts. he did this because this was politically convenient for him. well, the fact is, chris, now i and a law enforcement officers and first responders around the state and law enforcement officers and first responders and their families around the state and everyone who cares about the safety of our communities and the integrity of our communities we will see chris koster on november 8, we will fire you. >> cisse spragins. >> the whole concept of government is broken when it goes beyond its only legitimate functions, which is to protect people's rights, property rights and protect their life and liberty. that is what government is supposed to do. government has expanded to be something completely unrecognizable from that point and if by nature is going to be broken, it doesn't mean the people in the system are bad. its means that the incentives in the system award bad behavior. everyone-- human nature has good things and human nature has bad things. the political system rewards bad things in human nature. our free market award to good things in human nature, so the nature of government where it has grown to the point where it controls too much about lives is broken. about is not a function just of the people in the system. it's not going to change if we just get the good guys and as long as government has the amount of power over allies that it does. >> lester turilli. >> the answer to our question is, no. our government is broken at the top-level, the elected leaders. there lies the problem. the tens of thousands of good missourians that work harder personal day are doing a job. they are doing what they are instructed to do. what we need to do is clean house. we need to get people who are genuinely interested in the state of missouri and helping out. on coming forward fully speaking. i've never run for politics before. i encourage others that read your papers to do the same thing. >> we have a nuke topic introduced and that was ferguson and it was actually mentioned by both don and eric and since we are about out of time we will give everyone a 30 second rebuttal on the topic of ferguson and don, you introduced it, but i will let you go first and stay in the same order we were on in the last question. >> what i mentioned about ferguson and what i did not mention was that girl who has put the approval of jade nixon and chris koster was a black man who is convicted by an all-white jury and ineptitude or case, the calmest to the crime who did not receive murder, so the death penalty is a horrible situation, said tenet of the racism that permeates the criminal justice system. black people are more likely to be stopped by the police or likely incarcerated. if we don't deal with racism, we are not given with criminal justice in missouri. >> chris koster. >> eric greitens has repeatedly made the statement that he would have brought peace by the second day if only he had waived his magic wand, i guess, but it's an insult to the thousands of law enforcement officers who put their lives on the line. >> you said you wanted to fire darren wilson when you showed up and did not know the facts. >> i was in the federal courts of the state fighting against the aclu and protecting the police on the staging area of law, on tear gas rule the five minutes rule, protecting police and that is why the police of this date, 6500 of them strong have endorsed by campaign for governor and not yours. >> eric greitens. >> look, chris, before you may fax you can do ferguson and when the law-enforcement officers expected you to have their back, you said can we fire darren wilson. you need to be as a leader someone who has the backs of the people who are counting on you. our police officers and law enforcement officers and first responders were counting on you and you want to hide behind the endorsement of a union i will tell you that i've law-enforcement officers , first responders and their family willing-- who live in the state of missouri that will see that your days in politics are over on november 8. >> we need to get to the root of the issue. there is not a band-aid solution for ferguson. one of the biggest problems in this state or the country is the fact that we have less crimes that turn everyone into suspect. everyone in the country is a suspect in a victimless crime because the police don't know where to look. basically they use racial profiling to decide who they will stop in frisking this has created a huge amount of distrust between the police who are supposed to serve the public with someone steals from you takes your stuff hurts you and the incarcerated or chased down for smoking marijuana. >> lester turilli. >> ferguson was a tragedy. first time around i don't know much would change and second time around there should've been big changes. a lack of leadership. my son was trapped in ferguson. i understand the realness of the situation. what should've been done the second time around was to mobilize police in front of the public faces a business and home's also to give them instruction and authority to do their job. but, we also need racial unity. >> it is now time for our closing statements and the first to deliver their closing remarks is cisse spragins. >> the libertarian party is the third largest party in the country. we've been around since 1971. people have come around to realize we are growing at an unprecedented rate because people are seen what the welfare and warfare policies of the older parties have created. we need to and victimless crimes. we need to end of the state income tax. we need to get rid of regulations on business and personal behavior. we need to get government out of marriage. we need to get government out of reproductive decisions. we need to get government out of the lives of individuals beyond protecting their people and property. the people of missouri have a choice. you can basically keep doing what you're doing or you can actually vote libertarian and if after four years you don't like peace and prosperity than you can vote tierney back into office again. >> eric greitens. >> look, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. chris koster has been in politics for over 20 years. we have all seen his record. we have seen what it has led to. we saw his though you're at ferguson, this is the guy who showed up on the front page of the "new york times" as the most corrupt attorney general in the country. you heard today about his tremendous support for obamacare saying it's his top priority for the state of missouri. presented in politics for over 20 years and if he was going to make a difference he would have done so already, but he hasn't anyone, but we can't together we can build a missouri where every kid who got on the school bus this morning feels they have a fair shot at the american dream. we can build a missouri where moms who are working harder and longer to support their families are doing so i better pay and we can make sure and grandparents' and the grandkids out to play that they know they will be safe in the neighborhood. we can do this together. we can build a missouri where no one is left behind and everyone has a chance and i would be honored to earn your vote for the election on november 8. >> chris koster. >> republican nominee introduced himself to the state five months ago with a machine gun saying he knows how to blow up government. i've little doubt he knows how to blow up government. i have a lot of doubt to whether he knows anything about putting it back together, which is why i think he needs training wheels and a ceo and a team of people to come in and show him how to do the job of the governor that he should know how to do. this campaign has brought together a historic coalition, the entirety of the agricultural community, including the missouri farm bureau. the national rifle association, police, firefighters, first responders, teachers who have come together because they are frustrated with hyper partisanship and want to see progress in jefferson city. i have spent the entirety of my career trying to build a majority in the middle. missourians who have watch my crew know that. as governor, will work respectfully across party lines in order to bring progress to our state. >> don fitz. >> for over a hundred years the democrats and republicans have entered into a conspiracy to drive every other party out of politics by passing laws. again, i want to thank groups like the league of women voters and missouri press association for opening discussions to everyone who will be on the ballot in november. unfortunately, one thing we did not cover today was how to make jobs for missouri and i will cover that now. i'm the only candidate who advocates reducing the workweek to 35 hours so we can jobs for all took on the only candidate to advocate rebuilding impoverished areas of missouri in the urban core of the big cities of missouri with green jobs. i think i'm the only candidate who recognizes the fact that many people who have full-time jobs would gladly switch to part-time jobs if they could, but are afraid of losing benefits, so we must have medicare for all so everyone has guaranteed medical care and we must expand social security benefits so full-time workers who want to go to part-time work will have more jobs are everyone in missouri >> lester turilli. >> on october 8, a week from tomorrow from 3:00 p.m. to 6:00 p.m. i would like all of you to come to my facility. for your families. we will have a meet the candidates and pre-k the tours and hotdogs and soda, so come on down. now, here's the deal, you have heard a lot of rhetoric up here. was the motivation? my motivation is my heart. what made america great was her dependence upon god. also, the freedom it came from that. if we want a future for the state of missouri, we will have to put investments back into faith and in family. my name is lester turilli. some people, less. my motto is less is more. i believe government less is more, taxes less is more. once again, i would like to thank you for your hospitality and your invitation to all the candidates. thank you. >> that concludes the governor's candidate form. now would be the appropriate time to applaud. [applause]. [applause]. [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] >> msn has this story today related to the 2016 presidential campaign. credit or blame donald trump of this one. presidential candidates have been relentless in attacking for deformity jobs to mexico throughout his campaign. port has fired back both with ceo mark fields on cnn and on twitter during the first debate. site massive investment in job growth from united states has-- the cause of the fight with the ford bronco coming back to the michigan assembly line. you couldn't read more about this at msn.com. and we will likely hear more from the executive chair of the ford motor company shortly kicked. he's here in washington to talk about the future of the transportation industry. we will be back on the campaign trail this afternoon at 6:00 p.m. eastern with the senator tim campaigning in philadelphia. he is expected to lay out the clinton campaign for jobs. you can see that live on c-span at 6:00 p.m. eastern. >> if you missed any of the life presidential debate go to c-span.org using your desktop, phone or tablet. watch the entire debate choosing between the split screen or switch to camera options. you can even go to specific questions and answers from the debate finding the content you want quickly and easily and use our video clip into to create clips of your favorite debate moments to share on social media. c-span.org on your desktop, phone or tablet for the vice presidential debate. >> a debate now with candidates for governor in indiana. republican new-- lieutenant governor eric holcomb to democratic john gregg and libertarian rex bell were asked about many serious refugees and they also spoke about wage growth, the future of indiana's economy and religious freedom loss. the one-hour debate was hosted by the indiana debate commission. >> good evening. welcome to the indiana debate commission second gubernatorial debate of the fall campaign season. the debate is being televised at the university indianapolis. we had three candidates frame for governor. the winner will succeed governor mike pence who is a republican and is the running mate of vice presidents running mate donald trump. i am your moderator, president of the indiana physical policy institute, which is a nonpartisan not for profit that connects research into the state budget practices. for the next hour the candidates will debate issues, mostly focusing on jobs and the economy. areas of all major concern for all of us. members of the public and that issue, have the opportunity to submit questions for the debate commission about what concerns you and most of our questions are drawn from those questions. all of the questions were approved by the debate commission and none of the questions have been shared with the candidates. here are our candidates: rex bell, the libertarian candidate. he's a small business owner. eric holcomb is the republican candidate. he's the indiana lieutenant governor. john gregg is the democratic candidate. he is the former indiana house speaker. the candidate's positions on this stage in the order in which they will answer the questions were determined by the debate commission. after i ask a question each candidate will in turn have the opportunity to respond for one minute. each candidate also will have a 32nd rebuttal period, depending on the question. if a candidate exceeds the time given for his response, i will have to ask him to stop. before the final question each candidate will be given an opportunity to address the topic of his choice pick this allows the candidates to discuss the topic that they feel is important, but has not been touched on. that candidates have agreed to a set of rules which includes a props or prepared notes. at this time, each candidate will have the opportunity to further introduce themselves and make a one minute opening statement starting with mr. bell. >> thank you, john. i would like to first of all think the university of indianapolis and also the indiana debate commission for inviting us here, especially would like to thank the indiana debate commission for acknowledging that there are three candidates on the ballot. about two dozen happen with all of the media outlets, so we certainly appreciate it when we are acknowledged. we think they deserve to hear all of the options. im rex bell, from hagerstown, indiana. i have operated my own business for 42 years and i like to say in spite of the government instead of because of the government and we plan to do that further and we think we can take my knowledge of operating a small business and transfer that over into the operation of the government. thank you. >> and now, we will hear from mr. eric holcomb. >> think you, john, and to the university of indianapolis and also get indiana debate commission and all of you joining us whether you are here or live street home. soon, we will celebrate our 200th birthday on december 11. we have blazed trails over the last 200 years plowing our way into new frontier and achieved amazing things. i would submit to you that there is a couple reasons why we have been able to make such progress and also that over the last 12 years we have, further and faster than probably any other 12 year period thread at 200. it's because of leadership and because hoosiers have come to meet high expectations and so over the course of the last 12 years i have been so proud to have been part the leadership that ushered in that progress and i look forward to talk about the issues of 12 years ago leading up to this point we are today and where we will be 12 years from now. >> next, we will hear from mr. john gregg. >> thank you. are glad to see everyone here this evening and i would also like to thank the university of indianapolis. i would like to serve as our state 51st governor. tonight, you will see there are differences between the candidates. i would like you to imagine having a governor that shows respect for all hoosiers, that doesn't promote discrimination. a governor that focuses like a laser on the economy, on high wage jobs and attracting jobs, not scaring them away. i would like you to imagine a governor that takes the politics of education, that refocuses education on the students that works from prekindergarten and realizes teaching is part of the solution, not part of the problem. imagine a governor who doesn't accept the status quo. imagine you don't have to imagine this could be a reality. we can elect a governor and i have those skills to aim higher, to provide the leadership and i had the experience and we will work together and take the best ideas of democrats, republicans and independents using my experience in the public, private and academic sector and have division to lead us into our 200 first-year. >> thank you very much, mr. greg. now, to our questions. our first question is from samuel watkins. samuel is a resident of indianapolis. >> thinks. i believe the only solution to added jobs to our state is to create them ourselves. at the moment are well cared for and educated kids must leave other states for work. my question is not how you will bring jobs to indiana, but how you will open up the portal for high school and college grads to innovate and create here rather than the way because the jobs aren't going to move here. >> mr. bell. >> certainly, that's a concern for everyone. it was a concern for me when my children were graduating and looking for jobs. we wanted to keep them here. we understand government does not create jobs. what we need to do is create a atmosphere for jobs to be created by citizens and by businesses. now, we are doing that. our plan is to eliminate the property taxes, do the same thing government does now when it tries to attract businesses. it does away with property taxes for a very select few. we think we can do away with it for all. we think we can remove some of the licensing restrictions that stand in the way of small business, surly small business is the main contributor of jobs in the state. we think with those commendations we can create an atmosphere where people can start businesses easily and businesses will want to locate indiana. >> well, the jobs are coming here in record numbers. i mentioned 200 years and that we are about to celebrate our birthday. we have more people working in the private sector than in any time in our history. with a 4.5% unemployment rate, aaa credit rating. we live within our means as a state government. that is first and foremost the most important thing is taken do is make it an attractive place for people who want to invest and to innovate and choose to do it here the state has taken steps further. we have started to think about things regionally. regional city initiatives that we just addressed and free parts of our states to try to make our community vibrant communities. we have been rated on two different rankings as a top state and country for millennial's to come and work your because the jobs are in fact there and it's a low cost to, so the dollar goes a lot further, so the state needs to make sure we keep our books in order to make it an attractive cannot predict the bull, credible innovate. >> we have a 35-point economic development plan and is much as i would like to-- it's late now 30 points i don't think anyone would want to set listen to all of them tonight, so i would encourage you to look at website and see those 35 points where we spell out in detail, when we talk about unleashing that business spirit and focusing on small business growth, venture capital and working with our existing businesses zero well as attracting new businesses picked the truth of the matter where indiana has is we right now have lost per capita income. we are 38th. what is that mean? that means for a family of four sitting in for supper tonight that they make $7000 less than the average american family. that's $1150 a week. that affects her quality of life for many many hoosier families. so, please check our our program. if we focus on the economy and not on divisive issues we can work to make our per capita income at indiana better place. >> i think i'm going to ask a question next and it relates to this directly. by statistic is 36 among the states, but that was the measure that was put forth by governor daniels when he first took office as a sign of prosperity. indiana has experienced job growth. get the personal income per capita remain stagnant and has ring to 36 among the 50 states, so tell me what does the state need to do to make sure pay keeps up with job element and eric holcomb's first. >> we need to continue to do what we are doing and on steroids that's been our approach. we are tripling the attraction for high-tech companies. there is a reason why salesforce has decided to move 800 more jobs to the state of indiana. our dollar goes a lot further in indiana. are low cost of living goes a lot further in indiana and in some those states that are compared to. our wages have gone up each and every year since 2005, when we were hovering around $17 an hour to 2015 where we are now over $1 in our and when you factor in the jobs it is twice 6% higher than not, so we need to continue to diversify as we are, logistics and agribusiness and biosciences, high-tech, not just manufacturing. we are number one in the nation in manufacturing and we will continue to lean into advanced manufacturing, but the programs we have in place right now are working and we are getting traction. >> mr. greg. >> hoosiers are working harder and harder and getting less and less. talk to neighbors. you will see many of them are working two jobs. my background is a former small businessman and working to fortune 500 companies is why we put together a proposal that focuses on high wage a jobs. that's where as governor i will stay focused and that's in five areas. with high growth, high wage job potential. it's in the agribusiness, but it's in life sciences and biosciences. it's also an information technology. it's an 21st century logistics and in advanced manufacturing. if we stay focused on those areas, take politics out of education and better align our educational system with our job at demand we can fill that skilled jobs we have and we can move indiana forward. the status quo isn't getting it. that's not acceptable anymore. we can do better than indiana. >> certainly, when we are talking about higher wages, what can we do to increase wages, job competition is the best thing we can do for that. when we attract businesses, businesses have to compete for workers. that's what drives wages up. as eric mentioned, we do have a more affordable standard of living in indiana, which is a help. then, when we raise the wages by drawing more businesses in, it's the best thing we can do and keep the government's hands out of it altogether. that is something we can accomplish without asking the government for help, without having the government put more regulations on as. >> our next question and we have received many on the subject of the future of our state. one was from our next? who is samantha of westfield. >> and there has been a significant increase in commercial logging in our state forest since 2002. as a mother, and concerned our state forest or be around long enough for my children and their children to enjoy. do you believe our state forest should be managed for public purposes such as recreation and wildlife habitat or as it would supply for the timber industry? >> mr. gregg. >> thank you. .. >> 10% now up to 40% of the acreage. we are selling below market cost. that's just wrong. the state is competing with private business. that shouldn't be the way things should move. we need to review that. take note of how much we are logging on the states and quit competing with private business. it's just wrong what we're doing right now. >> i think we can do both. i don't think we have to choose one or the other. certainly that is a need to protect part of that but we also need to understand that there's a need to harvest that would end up with trees eventually grow up and called up if something went to take care. we look at things as we grow corn, we think nothing about that but because we are in a situation we don't think in long-term. it's all right to grow one thing and harvest it but not another. certainly trees, that is something we grow, something we need to harvest. i would agree we need to be more careful in the park system i don't think we need to get in a situation where we're saying absolutely nothing out of the park. i think, you know, rangers and people that study that have a better handle on what trees need to go and what do you need to stay. >> moderator >> as a state we can be and we're being good stewards on both fronts, i'm particularly proud of our department of natural resources and the forestry department within. many folks live in urban areas don't realize that indiana is 83% arm and forest. and we've done a good job from a department of national perspective of maintaining and sustaining our tribe and public lands. we also take a couple steps further over the last nine years we've had two different independent firms at our forestry program, and we've met a national and international standards. so on this front i could not be prouder of our department of natural resources personnel. >> moderator: our next question is, we have two questioners who brought up issues involving the religious freedom restoration act which was perceived as discriminatory and estates inaction on lgbt rights. so do you think the religious freedom restoration act has hurt the state and competing for jobs? mr. bell. >> well, you know, it was certainly raised that issue, a lot of damage done from the. i don't know that we've seen that. i don't agree with passing that. i don't believe that you get certain groups of people rights that other people don't have. you can't tell because of your religious objections, you can discriminate but for other reasons you can't. it was kind of thought and unnecessary law that do a lot of attention, something that has been, it's been overruled now anyway so if something i hope we can put behind us and move on from that. i would certainly like to see a state where all people are treated equally and all people have the same rights. i think we need to understand that. >> moderator: mr. holcomb? >> well, over the last year i've had the privilege and the ability to travel to all 92 counties throughout the state of indiana and ideally i've received a lot of feedback. there are good people on both ends of this issue who have differing opinions, contrasting opinions. and what we witnessed over this last year during the general assembly were both sides of the issue did not come to any consensus or any agreement, made no progress. in fact, they said, both sides said they would not seek a compromise. and then we had a committee hearing some months ago. and began taking back that there was no compromise or no inching toward any kind of agreement. we have in indiana local ordinances allow folks to address the economic develop the side of this with local h.r. rose. and his local committees seek to take events of those, they have been. if they seek not to they haven't been. that's the balance. we got a record tourism year in 2015 after we got through this. >> moderator: mr. gregg? >> the truth is this issue has hurt us economically. we need to show respect to all hoosiers but it's more than economic. it's about respect. there's a distinct difference between my opponent and i in this matter. let me take the first thing we would do. we would sign an executive order that would give civil rights protection to the members of the lgbt committee that work with us to indiana. we would also seek for the legislature to pass legislation granting civil rights protection and hate crimes for members of the lgbt community. in our economic plan we tell how we would create a marketing fun to work and and to damage. and unlike the current administration, we would hire an indian firm to do that. we think there are indian firms that can do this. and the ordinances that we hear about, those can't happen because those were banned by the legislature. so salesforce and indiana because indianapolis had passed a local ordinance. that power has been taken away now by the legislature. >> moderator: i like a quick follow-up. it's not resize his rebuttal but in 30 seconds, today the seventh district federal court in a separate case regarding rights rule upheld the lower courts stay, or preliminary injunction, allowing for syrians to be rotated into the state of indiana. in 30 seconds with each and becoming what you think of the programs governor pence's decision to try to stop that program, and what you think about going forward? mr. bell. >> well, i disagree with governor pence's take on that, that we could put a group of, one group of people, lumped them together in one thing libertarians have always looked at his everybody is an individual. and when you take a state and say we have one nationality that we're going to block, i think that's wrong. we need to look at people as individuals. certainly, you know, if it's somebody that is a known terrorist or criminal coming in. we have remedies for that, but to place an entire nation and group them all together, it just didn't sit well and something that we would look to. >> what is happening in syria is heartbreaking at the least, and we know through intelligence that isis continues to try to do not only americans are but others aren't as well. so while i understand where governor pence was when he made the decision, balancing, making sure we're keeping americans safe and when you're the fbi director stand before the country and say we don't know if they're infiltrating this network, i understand where he came from and the oath that he took but will continue to honor the court decision as this works through. >> you know, these lawsuits, the state of indiana files cost thousands of our tax dollars. i'm a lawyer and i don't even like to see them spending money on stuff like this. it's a waste of our precious tax dollars. this could be city i did -- is to be decided on a case-by-case basis to see these people are thoroughly vetted. i disagreed with what the governor had done because it is wrong to ban someone based on their religion. i was raised methodist. what do we do if they decide they will ban all messages from moving into indiana? of the next thing we will ban catholics. it's wrong to ban people based on their ethnicity, their race, their religion and their nation of origin. it's just wrong. >> thank you. our next question comes from stephanie, a small business owner. >> thank you. i'm a strong believer in the second amendment, and i also believe that all gun purchasers should undergo a criminal background check. we are to each of the candidates stand on the issue of universal background checks for all gun sales? >> i believe we have it about right where we are now. my wife was with me today is a certified handgun shooting and safety instructor. she became after we were broken into twice. the last time as we were sleeping. i am a staunch defender of the second amendment, and understand the reason why it's number two. >> moderator: mr. gregg? >> i also am a strong defender of the second amendment. i've been on before. i'm a gun owner. first went hunting with my grandfather when i was eight. i believe in responsible gun ownership which i think does call into a little common sense. if for the life of the i can understand why we don't want some dude that we won't let on an airplane all and buy semiautomatic weapon, or by someone with a violent criminal or as mental health issues go and buy some some automatic weapon. i mean, when the person gets a gun and does something, it jeopardizes old john's right to own a gun. i think we need a little common sense transit mr. bell. >> i've a strong supporter of not only the second amendment but also of our natural right of self-defense. i'm concerned when the government comes out and says we're going to start doing background checks on somebody that we might really doesn't own, shouldn't own a gun. that could very well be a criminal. but also be somebody that disagrees with us politically. we could very well say i worry about these libertarians, they don't tell the line like they should be maybe we should allow them to have guns. you know, anytime the government treads on the second amendment we need to be very, very careful, very, very wary of what they're doing. the best laid intentions could backfire on this. >> moderator: thank you. here's the question on regional development. at governor pence's request that you are a silly created a program to spend $126 million in funds for local projects to three different regions of the state. this program was paid for with one time tax amnesty payments. the question is do you think this region felt that program should continue, and if so, how should it be funded? if not, and what the state should d be to ensure that rura, suburban and urban areas enjoy the benefits of economic developments. mr. gregg. >> eric, what you dana. i think the regional city program is a good idea. [laughter] and i certainly would be remiss if i didn't congratulate the governor on his regional cities plans. what i think we can do a better job of though as were indiana as likely can we put this vote and the proposal of local government, on one of our white pages come white papers, that's about local control. the legislature really started micromanaging all local levels of government, city, towns, counties, school boards. they need flexibility on how they spend and use their local resources which are precious and very, very limited. this legislature has got to realize that government that governs best is the one that's closest to the. that's the county commissioners, their mayors, city council and the local school board. we've got to stop micromanaging and we've got to start allowing flexibility of some local controls the opportunities. thriving communities is essential to good growth in indiana. >> when you talk about the government that governs best, it might be the one closest to come we also but it's the one that governs least. and what we have the regional cities development is again government taking tax dollars in picking winners and losers. sending money to one region, not to another. we are very much in favor of allowing people to keep their money, invested as they see fit. local should exist but they should be funded by willing investors, connecting to businesses that want to locate or want to start out. so as far as the government taking our tax money and picking different regions, different locations, different companies, we think that's something that's better left to the people then turning it over to the government spent i think government functions best when work together from a state perspective and a local perspective. that's exactly what this regional cities initiative thrive separate also stellar communities and main street programs. i have been i think this is the way of the future. we need to do more of it. this is calling for communities to take an inventory of assets and liabilities. we understand we are much stronger together. no urban area as the study pointed out, no urban area can do it on their own. need suburban, they need urban by in. so if ball state is close to a neighboring county, a neighboring county ought to try to take advantage of all the assets that come with that. and so i will push to do more of this. this is government working with each other and it's about a 15 to one ratio returned from a state investment with a philanthropic committee, the local committee, that this is community and the state perspective. and what we see if we can better tap into that synergy. >> moderator: i want to follow up with the second question here. 30 seconds for each of you. what can the state due to ensure the rural and urban and suburban areas all to enjoy the benefits of economic development? how does that work? mr. greg. >> one of the key things we have to do for all indiana is broadband. there are 14% of the state, people in the state of indiana today that do not have broadband conductivity which means high-speed internet or dependable self service. that is so essential for our suburban and rural communities. it is all over the state. you can be 10 miles south of bloomington on i 69, and you can be there and you don't have a signal and your outside what of the state's premier educational institutions. broadband is essential. infrastructure, good roads and bridges and a longtime plan. those are all essential elements transit mr. bell. >> certainly when you look at rural and urban and suburban areas, those areas that have different needs and different ones your when we start saying the state could you step in and micromanaged and bring when business into one place or another business to another, that's not what the government should be doing. what the government should be doing is allowing people to keeping the roads up that is something we could do a much better job if we put all the road use taxes on to the roads. there's just so much the government could help i staying out of the way. and we believe that communities and cities will make their own decision. this is what we want. >> moderator: mr. holcomb. >> again i think this was the regional cities initiative in order to try to create real quality of place environment commute. wasn't just a single community. it was the region that the program striving towards but, of course, it's about connecting one to the other. rock band is a fantastic sample of not just access but seat. the question is always who's going to pay for it. the federal government hasn't programs that we should pursue help on the world front but the last i checked we have 92 counties and we get into the southern indiana terrain, they can become rocky terrain it becomes very, very expensive and we need to do more to make sure committees are broadband ready. >> moderator: some people have questions about indiana's infrastructure. after a bridge give out in the section headed to close last fall, the government the legislature stepped up spending on maintenance for the indiana's roads and bridges. the legislature will be revisiting the issue this year. what you think will take to ensure that for the state's infrastructure can be kept in good repair and how would you pay for it? mr. bell. >> i've mentioned before i think one of the most important things we can do is insist that all of our road use taxes are spent on the road. at the local level, the state level and at the federal level. certainly indiana does a better job than some states but we don't do very good getting our federal money back, a local mining is not always applied to the road. we see a lot of road use taxes, spent on different things, walking trails, you know, museums, that sort of thing. we think are most important thing we can do this upon all the road use taxes to the road. if you find out that it's not enough then we can retake it from there, but i think we would be pleasantly surprised. >> moderator: mr. holcomb. >> last year, 2015, the u.s. department of transportation rated indiana as number one in terms of road condition. just this year cbc released a study that had us as number one in terms of our infrastructure program. we have invested a lot over the last decade plus, 11 billion over the last 10 years and we get to the place that we are. we started projects that were sitting on the shelves for years and years and years, i-69, hoosier heartland, upgrading u.s. 31. we now find ourselves in a place coming out of the last session, legislative session, where we've agreed to take inventory of all of our wants and all of our needs, all of our need to put everything on the table in order to pay for all those wallets was and/or need. i look forward to seeing that report later this year. it was adequate but we all had during this session to keep everything on the table. and next session will start addressing how are they going to give our long-term data driven not political infrastructure program. >> moderator: and mr. greg. >> i want to invite those people down to drive on the roads i've been driving this is what got the best roads in indiana. [laughter] i'll take them about anywhere with me. the truth about is india is falling further and further behind a just exist one or five largest industries. my running mate and i put together a $3.2 billion to for such a plan, 3.2 billion additional dollars. when we take money and the money is split into two pots, roads and bridges, because one if i bridges will be obsolete in the next 18 years. the other 60% goes to quality of life issues, drinking water, industrial water, storm sewers, wastewater, cultural trails, green spaces, broadband. we need to come up with a plan that addresses our infrastructure longer than for two years or four years. this is a huge economic interest that we've got in indiana. check out our infrastructure plan. no new taxes and it doesn't hurt our bond rating one day at all. >> moderator: now become to the section of the segment of the debate with the candidates can speak on a topic of their choice. mr. gregg will go first and we'll talk for up to one minute. he will follow, will be followed by mr. bell, at the same topic for a maximum of two minutes. mr. holcomb doublespeak on that topic topic for up to two minutes. then we will close out the topic with one minute rebuttal by mr. greg. the other two candidates within have the same opportunity to speak on a topic of their choice following the normal rotation and format. so mr. gregg, you have one minute to open. >> thank you. you can't discuss the current without talking about education. as a former president of the university, i know firsthand the value of early childhood development. pre-k. 42 states have prekindergarten. the statistics are irrefutable. estimates greek and regard is more likely to graduate from high school, i can post secondary education. less likely to be jailed or on drugs, will make $160,000 a year more, and to live a healthier and longer lifestyle. folks, this is mike investing in the future just like in our infrastructure. that's why the indiana chamber of commerce lists this as one of their five top of goals. this is what what i have met with executives at lilly, comments, hillenbrand, salesforce, they say we've got to do prekindergarten the pakistan. let's quit studying it. let's do it. we can do it by prioritizing child, using existing dollars and without raising taxes. >> moderator: mr. bell, two minutes on this topic. >> certainly education is important to all of us. i think we need to stop and take a look at what indiana offers for education now. you know, k-12 right now, anybody who wants it, certainly colleges, community colleges people can attend for a very reasonable cost. i won't say free but certainly if someone is willing to invest 10,000, 8000, $20,000 they can get a two-year or four-year degree. so i think we have come up with that. i think we provide that for people very well now. when we talk about pre-k, this is something, another issue where government is reaching farther into the family. when we talk about $160,000 a year, that's quite a jump, but i don't see that happening. i don't see -- when we talk about pre-k, we will see better results from family involvement then we will from turning your children over to younger age to the government. this is what we are looking for. we need to get, make government more affordable so that families can stay home if they need to come if they want to, and raise their children. certainly there are community help, there are churches, there are businesses if they want to help families, help their employees out with pre-k of some type. but to put it in to the government where it will eventually will end up to be mandatory, because kindergarten started out as optional and there's a push now to make it mandatory. certainly the same thing would happen with pre-k. we need to re-examine the proper role of government and the out of the family that quick. >> moderator: mr. holcomb, two minutes. >> i am all in favor of expanding pre-k. it's important to recognize at the outset that we didn't have a pilot program before recently. and so we've got all these years with nothing. and now we have a program in place where we offered it to the at the fsa -- fafsa to be available for the most disadvantaged among us. and i think that's what we need to continue to expand. i think we need to move the folks there in the very back of ally, the folks that need extra help the most, so do not make it mandatory that the folks that are at a certain poverty level, we need to make sure we're doing all we can to move into the front of the line. so i am all in favor of expanding the program. right now it's in five different counties, so there's the first collection of counties. we can continue to expand across the state. the question is always is going to pay for and how much is at? how much does it cost not to address this? i again am all in favor of expanding methodically, keeping and consideration cost and capacity. some schools i talke talk to toy we're not ready for this yet. so don't make this mandatory. don't just throw a $500 million program on us and ask us to comply. there are avenues available right now if we can go back to the same people that aren't applied that we had to turn away. we need to sort osha and those folks in. >> moderator: and mr. gregg, one minute. >> there's only 1500 students being served by that pilot program. there's 80,000, four year olds in indiana. we've got the money to what's called reverse. there's over 230 million, and the face of this in over three years for the first year cost 150 million. we will never get full all one of% of the students he guess it's not mandatory. we've got that money plus the current administration turned out $80 million of federal money because they were upset with the president. out of the 78,005 students, ask yourself, how many of them have lost opportunity? i do want to look back period in the i inside your kid can't go to pre-k. we've got the money to do it. if we can't invest now and then our children, what have we become? we can do better. the status quo is not getting it one bit ago. i want to do away with the line, and it's just like i can't believe, kentucky has prekindergarten. [laughter] where i'm from that's something we laugh over. >> moderator: thank you. mr. bell, you have one minute to introduce the topic of your choice. >> well, the topic of my choice would be why was this country founded? because ago but we are under at the time was way too big. since become was founded it continued to grow, the one we have now gets bigger and bigger and bigger. i like to say try to name three things that government doesn't tax or regulate. it's very hard thing to do. the government is in every aspect of our life and we see the other two parties are talking now about making government even bigger. one will say we're not going to make as big as the other guys are going to make it, but it's still a matter of growth. we believe that people are capable of running their own life. they're capable of making their own decisions. and that's a we would strive to do, get out of the way a business can get out of the way of the parents when they try to educate their children get out of the way of the teachers. we can do a lot better job than we are doing now by making government smaller. >> moderator: thank you very much. mr. holcomb, two minutes. >> well, attracting talent to india of course speaks right to his point. that's why i am proud of the fact that indiana was ranked as the number four freest state in the country. that means the government isn't so much on our backs and involved in our everyday affairs. every dollar that we take from the taxpayer takes a little bit of freedom away from the taxpayer. so i think we have to be overly cautious and very deliberate and transparent about what we are spending of taxpayer dollars on. we found ourselves 32005 spending more money than we were bringing in -- pre-2005, that put us in the backseat for competing for the top of the jobs around the world. i will continue to be very cautious about any new gun and we've got our regulatory climate in a competitive position right now. so i think rex's right. we need to be overly cautious when government intrudes into our daily lives, and we have been over the last decade. >> moderator: mr. gregg, two minutes. >> welcome indiana i will agree to a lot of work and a lot of people going back to the last years that i was speaker nearly 60 years ago, we started making changes in our tax structure ste indiana and they continued on to governor daniels. we are now the fourth or fifth best state to do business in. we are 46 in new business startup. so think of this. we have a good climate but we are near the bottom it comes to starting new businesses. there's a reason for this. we've got to focus on the economy. we've got a laserlike focus on the economy creating high wage jobs. we do have to take the politics out of education if we're going to move indiana forward. it is so important that we focus our economic activity in these areas that are high growth at high wage jobs. .. >> we need to admit this and what we are doing is not working. we need to have an adult conversation and the workforce development people and education people sit down and have a discussion on what we can do to stop this that's gripping our city. there's our whole state, there's a place for government and this is an area that we need to be talking about, this very election. that's why we talk about it in our campaign every day. it's not a drug problem, it's an epidemic. >> and mr. bull, -- -- bell, one minute to finish the topic. >> i would point out that the federal government where it is, the bar is very low on that. ii would like to be the first free of state, i think that's where we need to be and that's what we should all be striving for. when we mention -- every time somebody mentions spending that's a family in indiana, 4 billion, 5 billion, that's the growth of the government. that's taking away your government, taking away your right to make decisions. it's just -- it is so important that we get a hold of this government, that we get it pushed back to where it belongs instead of running to it every day, what can you do for me, i need more money, take some money to my neighbor and give it to me and help control the decisions, we need to stop that. >> thank you, mr. bell. >> you have one minute to introduce the topic. >> i hate to beat a dead horse but i think the second question was insightful one about the future of our state and i couldn't agree more with where you were driving. when we assess what we need to improve on in indiana, one of the main areas is how do we attract more talent, not just how do we retain the talent at our world class universities scattered throughout the state of indiana, how do we get that talent to reside and go to work at nestle and cook and international companies, how do we get indiana known as a place of ingenuity and have national flair? one of them investing in entrepreneurs and our plan to invest a billion dollars on that front. these are our areas many we are going to create separation between us and the rest of the pack we need to do more here and we are. >> mr. greg, you have two minutes on the topic. >> you know, the truth of the math our wages in indiana are growing less than the state of kentucky. were you don't need to laugh but that's nothing for us to brag on indiana. i know hoosier state struggles and the first thing we do we have to be a welcoming state and we are not right now. we have to show respect to all people and we've got to focus on the economy and we've got to focus on our infrastructure. if you look at our economic plan you'll see we talk about increasing our venture capital tax credit. we talk about allowing the fail of that. we talk about establishing a growth and opportunity fund for those entrepreneurs, those young people, people of all ages but so many young people that are so excited, have business incubators all across the state. i think these are the things that we need to be talking about. we need to be focusing on how education and talent is the key. there's a gentleman that lives in indianapolis runs called something aluminum foundation, he wrote this fantastic book that gets me excited called "talent," and if the state of indiana create 3,000 jobs, living-age jobs, but if we don't have the talent, they're going to leave and fellow hoosiers are not going to leave the midwest, they might stop on either one of the coast but odds are they will go across the state or go across either one of the oceans. we've got to focus on the economy going forward. we have to focus on the high-wage, high-growth jobs, taking the best idea of democrats, republicans and independents and using my experience in the public, private and academic sector we can move indiana ahead and not be in the bottom of the realm all of the time. >> mr. bell, you have two minutes on the topic. >> well, certainly the future of the state is important to all of us, i would hope and how are we best going to do that? do we let the government make decisions about what businesses we are going to attract? they talk about attracting large businesses, which is a very important but we also need to remember the small businesses are the backbone of the state, where most employees are. i think that we can attract all businesses, large and small by creating a better atmosphere, a more business-friendly atmosphere. that's the type of thing that's going to create more jobs, 300,000, that's not bad, why not a half a million? the sky is the limit when you open the thing up and say every business is welcome here and you're going to have the lowest operating costs because you're not going to be paying any property taxes. we can attract those. when we do that and businesses start competing for wages, wages are going to go up. it's just a win-win situation that we should be jumping on. you know, there's so much that we can do, so much that we can gain by getting government to step back and allow people to work on their own, allow people to develop their own businesses, allow businesses to decide they want to come to indiana. we don't have to worry about wasn't business leaving when there's two waiting in line to get in. so i think that's what we can do. i don't think that we need to look for the government to fix this. i think this is something we can fix ourselves and the government step back. >> mr. holcomb, one minute to close the topic. >> well, indiana has a 4.5% unemployment rate, that's something that most of our navy base can't claim, certainly around the country were lower than national average, ceo magazine has rated indiana the number one state in the midwest. something kentucky can't claim. we have been rated the number one state for small business. that's something kentucky can't claim. i'm proud to have the endorsement of the nfib, national federation of independent businesses that oversee concerns of small businesses throughout the state. they are, in fact, the real life-blood of our communities. we need to make sure that we are continuing to keep our state way out in front when it comes to where folks around the world and the country are looking to relocate their business and the hondas and ge aviation will continue to grow when we keep our fiscal house in order. >> okay, thank you. now to the final question of the night and serve as closing statement. the question is why would you be the best candidate to lead indiana into the economic future, mr. greg. >> because i started out by saying i want to serve as governor, and not be governor and have the servant's heart. impossible to deal with but we have to tackle them. >> i have a vision bringing people together. that's why we have talk today people all across the state, hundreds of people and over 120 people helped us come up with a written plan. you know, i've made a payroll -- >> mr. greg, your time is up. >> 30 seconds. mr. bell. >> what was the question again? [laughter] >> why would you be the best candidate -- >> he wasn't listening to me, john. >> what would you lead indiana to best economic future? >> i have operated business for 42 years, i know what it takes to run a business. i know what it takes to attract a business. i know what businesses face when they run up against attacks or unnecessary regulation. i believe that i have the ability and the knowledge to arrange indiana so that businesses would want to come to indiana and i hope you will give me a chance to do that. >> mr. holcomb. >> well, for the very reason of the overall purpose of this debate on jobs and economy, i step forward and answered the call when mitchell ran. it got us moving in the right direction and we found with more

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