about hundreds of thousands of job losses that would result from proposed republican budget cuts. so be it. boehner admitted he didn't know how many jobs would be lost, so the liberal central for american progress did the arithmetic. 1 million lost jobs. why wouldn't he care? is it bulk he doesn't think that federal jobs are real jobs or the unemployment might help the republicans next year? they're singing out loud, so be it. what a great line to remember. plus you know republican leaders won't let go of the birther lie, now with some in mississippi pushing -- even an established figure lie haley barbour is refusing to say that's wrong. is this what passes for leadership in the party of abe lincoln these days? they're asking that question about clarence thomas, and his vice president will join us later to make the case against them. madoff's revention. the ponzi schemer broke his silence and said the big banks and hedge funds that did business with him were explicit in his massive fraud. is this jailhouse pleading or a good question to ask? finally let me finish with the absolute need for senate hearing with this new evidence from secretary rumsfeld that saddam hussein had no nuclear weapons or even the facility to produce them. we begin with john boehner's dismissive response that the budget cuts will kill jobs? alex wagner writes for politics daily.com. howard, let's look at the sound on tape, as we call it. here's speaker boehner saying jobs may be lost. let's listen. >> over the last two years, the federal government has added 200,000 new federal jobs. and if some of those jobs are lost in this, so be it. we're broke. it's time for us to get serious about how we're spending the nation's money. >> well, so about it i think will go down with one of those cracks that suggests a callousness about unemployment. what covers him on this, howard? >> it's a little bit like bring it on. remember that? >> yeah, with bush. >> it was not smart politics at all. >> it was wise-ass, and at a time when people are suffering all over the country, including people who work for the federal government. what boehner is doing is playing to the prejudices in the base of his own party -- >> so you're calling out to get -- you're the person on the other line is a joke. you just call him a joke to start the conversation. >> but there's something else here, chris. the republicans who lost some of the governorships last time around in places like california, illinois and so forth said afterwards if we republicans are going to win, we have to destroy the power of the public employees unions, because their passionate get out the vote armies for the democrats, and i heard more than one operative saying until we destroy the power of the public employees unions and public employees who are passionate to preserve their own jobs. >> i always wonder why they keep talking about that. >> that is the reason why, to reduce the army on the other side. >> there's an old expression in washington, people don't do their best work when they're being dumped on. it's phrased differently, but you get the point. if you want somebody to do a job, but speaker boehner is federal employee. all the people that work for him, probably very hard, work for him, work for him in the district and in washington. why is he dumping on them saying the jobs don't matter? especially when we have an unemployment rate that might be up around 17%. >> it's not good for the administration in 2012 if it stays high. masses there's something in there. you're -- if we're talking about boehner slip-ups today, this is the same day he's seen supporting a $450 million program that stands to benefit workers in his district. >> is that a sweater or some kind of lab coat? never mind. >> this is someone who's had the word jobs tattooed across his face for years now, the number one talking point. >> i heard he wasn't an earmarker. >> he's been talking about trimming the fat and here you have a program supported not only by members of his own caucus, but also the white house, and he maintains it's a good program that's going to create jobs and he won't get rid of it, though it could take out $3 billion from the deficit. >> is he basically supporting all the old pork barrel stuff and has to put up with the tea party types? >> i don't think he's trying to drive up the unemployment rate to get rid of obama. i think there's a battle of turnout that i just explained before, but the other thing is he's trying to talk to the tea partiers, the antigovernment, the anti-federal government rhetoric of the ahead party, which he has to deal with every day. >> idiom. >> he has to speak in the idiom. that's changed who he is. >> that's part of why he said, so be it, because he thought it would play with the anti-federal, andy big government tea party people. >> i think you're right, and whether it's fair or not, you hear they make more than the average worker and all that -- >> which is not true, by the way, and they're very productive. that's not true. if we have a government, we may as well have good people, and we do have good people. that's not the point. it's going to trip him up repeatedly. he's really not quite one of those people anyway, but he's trying to talk like them. >> but fundamentally i think it's a good point, this inside versus outside washington dynamic. >> but he's an insider, and look what happened on this jet fighter issue. the tea party joining with the administration to show they're serious. >> i will use this as rhetoric, and i will. we've been waiting to hear what the republican jobs proposal is, here it is, get rid of the jobs. the center for american progress crunched the numbers, did arithmetic, and it turns out if you cut the $59 billion for the second half of 2011, that's 650,000 government workers would lose their jobs, that's two thirds of a million. another third of a million would lose their jobs indirectly. that's a million jobs gone, out of work if boehner gets his cuts. what's weird about the reps. they're not always right. in fact both parties are wrong about long-term spending, in the short term, we better need a bit of a deficit. we need stimulus. but two, few years down the road, we need to start cutting the deficit. the republicans aren't offering anything on either front. they're talking about cutting programs in the short run where we need them to get out of the ditch we're in, and not offering up on entitlements, they're not doing either. think just want to cause trouble talking about big cuts in the short run. and they don't care, because it may help them next election. >> i think what we have here is rhetoric. >> really partisan. >> very advanced campaign rhetoric, in terms of actually creating jobs, nothing they're doing is that concrete. look, the president didn't offer much leadership in terms of his budget on monday, but the republican leadership has also spoken very softly -- >> speak the language of howard. howard has once again figured out the answer. you have an insider, one of these guys around 20 years, now trying to act like he's the hottest tea party kid, the new flavor of the month going for him. then you find out he's ready to kill ought kinds of federal jobs, but yet he wants to protect the job for the new systems he has. right? >> right. >> when it comes to a defense contract in his neighborhood, he's all for those jobs, but nationwide, scree it. >> that's the problem. >> you like the way i asked the question -- >> no, i apologize. go ahead. >> no, no, go ahead. >> i was going to say, to just only say that is the problem. if they said, yeah -- i know the republicans don't think they're productive jobs, that a lot of government jobs don't have a multiplier effect. but you can't just blurt out what he said without saying here's how we are in fact going to create jobs officially and well in the country. without any of that, without the republicans actually doing that, it sounds very callous. >> so the absolute is create jobs in my district, get rid of them every everywhere else? >> there is a cleave, a heartbreak dead ahead that they've been driving towards for weeks, if not months, and john boehner trying to control the very factions has become problematic. >> this is just nonsense that's going on. let's talk about the possible hope, the light from the other side here, perhaps coming over the horizon, you know, right now a group of six, three and three, there her, getting together to try to come out with something like the debt commission. is it going to work? >> i'm yielding my time, out of fairness. >> if we're talking about long-term entitlement reform, it's not happening before 2012. >> what about these six guys. >> the without and i think the press corps will go at it again and again. when will it happen? all we know is it will be a civil and adult discord. >> i love the new word, adult. >> presumably behind the scenes. the president and the republicans are really going to have to take this issue up with gusto and i don't see that happening before the election is over. >> i think the president is trying to play a deep game. whether it would work or not, i don't know. the fact that dib durbin is in that group means that the president is preserving the possibility, however small it is, that he'll be able to pull off some kind of deal with the republicans. that's why he has durbin there, that's why this thing is going on. so the president is saying hey, i'm not saying anything about it now, but i know he and mitch mcconnell had -- there is a small possibility, if the president sees the chance for it, that he'll try to punch it out. >> will he take leadership if he gets bepartisan support, will he do it? before the election? >> i think in order to win independent voters, that there's a chance that he will, if he can pull it off. he did it on health care in a way, he did it objection taxes in a way, it's not xwoobl. >> the short story, it's boehner's blunder. you don't say so be it when people lose a million jobs. howard fineman and alex wagner, thank you. coming up, some republicans are so scared of offending their far right base, how else do you explain boehner, mcconnell and kantor allowing this birther stuff to stay alive. and haley because bore -- a new grandwizard. is this what passes for leadership in the party of lincoln? is that really the party of lincoln still? you're watching "hardball," only on msnbc. everyone has someone to go heart healthy for. who's your someone? campbell's healthy request can help. low cholesterol, zero grams trans fat, and a healthy level of sodium. it's amazing what soup can do. break outhe popcorn. this coming monday, catch the premiere of my new document tear on bill clinton. it's called president of the world, because no one has ever had his worldwide reach, rock star appeal and historic mission. bill clinton's post presidency is unlike any before. >> i had always said that bill clinton would run for president for the rest of his life, not literally, but figure ratively. and i think i underestimated him. i think he's been running for president of the world for the rest of his life. >> following the former president is a little like going on a concert tour. different cities, different countries, exuberant crowds, always the same feeling, that wherever bill clinton arrives, it's an event. a happening, to be experienced and remembered. >> he's a superstar, isn't he? >> you can do it here, i can figure out how to put it everywhere and get it funded for you. >> did you ever have a pause where you thought i don't know what i'm going to do next and this began to develop, almost this global role you play now? it is global. >> in the middle of my second term as president, i began to think about what i would do. in general i thought number one, i wanted to stay active where i could still have an fluent. the second thing i wanted to try to explain the world i'm living in to my fellow americans and people around the world. everything has sort of grown out of that. >> it premieres this coming monday night here on msnbc. don't miss it. "hardball" back after this. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 no phone calls, no feedback, tdd# 1-800-345-2550 no "here's how your money's doing." tdd# 1-800-345-2550 i mean what about a little sign that you're still interested? tdd# 1-800-345-2550 come on, surprise me! tdd# 1-800-345-2550 [ male announcer ] a go-to person to help you get started. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 regular detailed analysis of your portfolio. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 for a whole lot of extras at no extra charge, tdd# 1-800-345-2550 talk to chuck. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 back to "hardball." mississippi governor haley barbour is thinking about running president, but as is often the case for southern conservatives, the top issue facing him is from 1865. the sons of confederate veterans in mississippi want a state-issued plate to honor a confederate general that was also a grand wizard. the naacp has denounced the push. governor barbour explaining tuesday why he wouldn't do the same. >> first of all, i think the bureau of revenue has got to prove it. secondly, i don't think that there's a chance it will come out of the legislature. and then -- i know there's not a chance that it will become law. >> wow. that's not exactly a profile in courage, is it? just the latest example of a republican leader especially from down south refusing to ruffle the feathers of the hard right. columnist eugene robinson is an nbc analyst and joan walsh, an editor at large with salon.com. this tone-deaf thing here, this is a haley barbour problem, just six weeks ago, apparently was defending 9 citizens council, a latter-day version of pretty much the same thing. what is it about the south, in that deep south, where a politician, a governor very popular and effective, wouldn't want to ruffle fetest? >> this is a haley barbour problem. there are other conservative politicians who get it, or at least who get it after the first iteration, after the first problem. haley barbour said ole miss in 1965 there were no racial problems. he just says things that are ahistorical, just wrong and that reflect this incredibly rose-colored view of the old south that is, in many instances offensive, to offer general nathan bedford forrest -- >> but you grew up in south carolina, you know the whole thing. i'm watching it from a distance and watching a republican party that used to sort of duck its head in the south. we're the party of lincoln, we can't be selling that past. now they're talking about nullification, secession, selling confederate day in virginia without mentioning p slavery. i'm not saying they should go around beating their chests, it wasn't them that did it, but why act like it isn't there? >> it's very explicit. >> why change? why is the republican party in the south unashamedly pushing the civil war over again? >> there are two possibilities, it is the modern-day version of the old southern strategy, but it's explicit like everything is explicit these days, or in the case of haley barbour, it's a problem he has with his own recollection, his own view of -- >> well, dance with the one that brung you. that could be it. joan, there is a difference now from the way it was even in the '60s when nixon did his go south thing. they weren't out there saying, you know, that there wasn't any slavery, they weren't denies it. nixon, to his credit, did end the school system that didn't want to, but he certainly did. there wasn't this game that's going on now, which is selling the old cause. they're selling the cause again. >> they are. >> your thoughts. >> they absolutely are, and haley barbour has a history of this. he's tweaking the naacp, and he's done it before. once they asked him would he just ask the council to yank down his photo from the website and he said no, i'm not going to do that, so again it's the naacp asking him to do something decent, but this is the grandwizard of the kkk, and he's tweaking them, saying no, you don't have matter and you can't make that claim on med. he's doing it to a cheering section that's out there, and he node it and it's worked for him. >> what would be the message for african-americans and people who care about these things? you put up nathan bedford forrest. he was a courageous general, i know his role, but later on he went back home and was one of the founders of the kkk. >> the message is don't like me, don't vote for me, work against me -- >> and i don't need your votes. >> that's the message, and it's run rubbing it in your face again. >> it's not just that he was a grand wizard. during some war he ordered the massacre of a group of surrendering black union troops in a famous incident that, by any standard, certainly by the standard of the day was a war crime. >> it is a war crime. >> here is john boehner today with eric cantor. >> it's not my job to tell the american people what to think. our job in washington is to listen to the american people. having said that, the state of hawaii has said that he was born there. that's good enough for me. the president says he's a christian. i accept him at his word. >> a lot of that has been an issue sort of generated by not only the media but others in the country. >> somebody brings that up, just engaging in crazy talk? >> well, david, i don't think it's nice to call anyone crazy. >> when you come to the congress of the united states, there are 435 of us, we're nothing more than a slice of america. people come, regardless of party labels, they come with all kinds of beliefs and ideas. it's the melting pot of america. it's not up to me to tell them what to think. >> that's a hell of a loaf that guy is looking at. you've got to go to the other slices of bread. >> we in journalism collect string, that's what we do, we try to see if things fit together. michelle bachmann said -- marley, absolutely indefensible. why is somebody like michele bachmann is trying to talk about cleaning up the founding fathers? why are they denies our history? is it selling something about states' rights? misabout anti-washington? something about the hard right always being right even if it defends slavery? >> yes, and they're saying that african-americans and poor people really have no claim on our conscience, because we've always treated everybody the same. the other thing, listening to boehner say that, i'm not hear to tell americans what to believe when in your last segment he was perfectly happy to tell americans it's fine to lose federal jobs, because the debt is more important. when it comes to the question of birthers, he suddenly has an attack of coward is, because half his base believes the same thing. 51% of likely republican voters actually believe that maybe obama wasn't born here. that's scary. i hope that poll is wrong, but they're playing with racist fire. >> gene, is this the republican party's conundrum? they're a party of two halves. a lot of people who watch this show, who just want less government, lower taxes, the usual get off my back stuff, then a new group of crazy people. they're reactionary. they want to defend all the bad stuff just to be awful, and now the guys in the middle have to buy it. and the new group is where they are for the party. they're all afraid to. but they're afraid, as joe pointed out to do what they get paid to do. we're not paid -- -- >> because it's the margin. >> then you shouldn't be speaker of the house. >> i think it's a crazy coalition and i think it will come apart in tampa next september when they get together. how about when they meet each other? all these guys realize they're in a party of crazy people? anyway, eugene robinson, we have fun at their experience. joan, thank you. i haven't seen you in a while. come back east. >> i will. chris christie, boy, he's the hot -- he has become the flavor of the month. everybody will be saved by -- joe and everybody is saying bring this guy on, he's going to save us. i don't know. he says he's not running. we'll check it out. i'm katie and this is george. i'm allergic to cats. 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[ male announcer ] we bet you'll love zyrtec®, too -- or it's free. he really has a very special relationship with his cat. how are those flat rate boxes working out? fabulous! they gave me this great idea. yea? we mail documents all over the country, so, what if there were priority mail flat rate... envelopes? yes! you could ship to any state... for a low flat rate? yes! a really low flat rate. like $4.95? yes! and it could look like a flat rate box... only flatter? like this? you...me...genius. genius. priority mail flat rate envelopes. just $4.95. only from the postal service. a simpler way to ship. first, talk about a low blow down under. during a sports report on australian tv, a female anchor woman made what many heard as a snarky comment about her male coanchor. many believe it had to do with gender. well, you'll figure it out. >> and england's skipper andrew proudly showing off an urn, before flying out for the world cup. i can't understand how something so small can be so impressive. >> well, mark, you would know about that. thank you very much. weather is next for jane reilly, but first here's george. >> everybody is talking about that back-and-forth. i like the way he just kept going on. chris yiie is going to washington. he's the guy who tells it like it is, the guy who, let's face it, actually has a personality. no wounder they're pops the question, and popping it the first time he shows up. >> well, that took a long time, didn't it? what do ifz to do short of suicide to convince people i'm not running in apparently i actually have to commit suicide. there are lots of people who will run just because the opportunity presents itself. i'm not stupid. i see the opportunity. i see it. that's not the reason to run. >> well, it shows you how lonely the republicans are at the top. it's saturday night. are they lonely for the one they can't have? finally arizona ups the ante last year they passed one of the toughest immigration laws in the country. state lawmakers have proposed a bill that reads, quote, before a hospital admits a person for nonemergency care, an admissions officer must confirm a lawfully present. that's right, the bill requirements hospitals to check the immigration status of i parents. while it doesn't say they should be denied care, they would be object gaited to report any illegal alien. i'm just guessing, wouldn't that care inhumane, certainly. dangerous? very much so. i'll bet you don't see this bill passing. a new cbs poll shows majority of americans, 51% disapproved of the health care bill passed by president obama. that's good news for republicans, right? but exactly how many in the same group of people being polled say they do not agree with the republican push to strip the health care law of its funding? 555%. a total disconnect. health care reform, can't live with it, can't live without it. 55% want to keep on funding a bill they want to get rid of. up next, the vice president of common cause joins us with its complaint against supreme court justice clarence thomas. did he have an association with a group that had an interested in a case before the court? we'll hear the other side, too. ear watching "hardball," only on msnbc. you can spot an amateur from a mile away... while going shoeless and metal-free in seconds. and you...rent from national. because only national lets you choose any car in the aisle...and go. you can even take a full-size or above, and still pay the mid-size price. now this...will work. 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[ female announcer ] with aarp you get so much more out of life. call now to get the latest issue of our award-winning magazine absolutely free and discover the best of what's next. with all due deference to separation of powers, last week the supreme court reversed a century of law that i believe will open the floodgates for special interests, including foreign corporations. to spend without limit in our elections. i don't think american elections should be bankrolled by america's most powerful interests. >> welcome back to "hardball." president obama made clear in that speech he opposed the ruling in the cases known as citizens united. now the group xhoun cause is pushing for an investigation into whether supreme court justice thomas had a conflict of interest. orrin pierce is pushing for that investigation, former -- charm bradley smith also joins us. he says common cause is wrong. so we have both sides here. orrin, let me ask you this question. did justice thomas take money or gain any kind of perk or any kind of favor from a group that had an interest in a -- did he take anything from a koch brothers or anyone that had an interest in a supreme court decision? >> well, no, justice thomas didn't take any money. that isn't the standard. >> does did he get any benefits? that's usually what we look for in conflict of interest. did he tyke anything? did he get anything? any favors? any benefits at all that might have influenced a decision he voted on? >> no, he didn't. hi wife had a financial interest that we have raised in this matter action and he had -- there's an appearance of conflict, which is actually the standard. in order to recuse a judge, you don't need a judge to receive a financial benefit. >> then what's the appearance? i didn't know about this meeting out there. you're saying because he went to a meeting of the federalist society, and that's all over the place in this town. i didn't know they were a discredited organization or conservative legal society. you're saying to appear before the federalist society is a conflict of interest? >> no, it's not appearing before the federalist society. we're raising questions about whether he attended a closed-door political strategy and fund-raising in the session by koch industries and paid his way is there by the federalist society. >> i see. in other words, this was a pass-through to get him to go to a koch brothers event. is that what you're saying? >> that's what it appears to be. we raised the question, because koch industries put out a letter touting their past events had featured justices thomas and scalia. when we raised those questions, the court put out an official statement saying they spoke as a federalist dinner sponsored by the kochs and justice thomas just dropped by. we went back and looked at his disclosures forms, and he had his accommodations and meals paid for in sunny palm springs for four days. >> by the federalist society. i nigh you threw in the sunny part to slant it -- it's not funny. >> no, it's not. he went to a federalist society meeting, and i just want to know, has any associate justice or supreme court or federal judge talked before a common cause event, to your knowledge? >> no, i haven't, but you're misunderstanding. >> no, i'm asking, has the supreme court justice ever spoken to a common cause event at all? >> no. what other groups do you not want a supreme court justice to speak to? >> this isn't about the federalest society. we're not challenging an event. what we're raising a question about is whether he attended a political strategy and fund-raising closed-door session with koch industries. >> do you know if he did? >> the judges appear. >> did he? are you accusing him of doing that? are you accusing him of involving himself in conservative strategy that would affect a supreme court ruling? conservative strategy? >> it appears that koch industries has said he intended. his disclosure forms show him in palm springs for four days on days that appear to be the same day. >> okay. so it's a federal society meeting, they paid for his trip out there, he stayed a few extra days he shouldn't have. fine. that's your point. now, the question is, do you know if he participated in a strategy meeting yourself? would you swear to the fact that he was at a strategy meeting -- i don't think they should have anything to do with the ko counter. h brothers. are you saying he sat in a strategy meeting with him? >> no. >> what are you saying? >> we're asking the question. >> you're asking the question. >> we don't have the information. we're asking the question. we asked the justice department to investigate. >> let's hear from the other gentleman. >> well, chris -- i think -- there are legitimate interests about -- justice breyer's does it, scalia does it, thomas does it, and some people say they should take the approach, but justice thomas has been on the supreme court for over 20 years. he's voted to strike down as unconstitutional every single campaign finance case that's come before him. nobody thinks his decision has anything to do with, you know, him having spoken to a group of people that immediate meet that talk about political issues. >> your response, arn? you're saying it affects his decision? >> i think if the -- if a liberate justice had attended a democracy alliancalliance, stra and -- >> but you don't know -- >> the republicans would be up in arms. >> but you don't know -- i just asked you, are you charging an associate justice with sitting in on a strategy session? >> i am raising the question, based on the koch industries' own statement that he was featured at a strategy session, and by his disclosure forms that suggest that he was there, and asking the court to provide the american public with a clear explanation of whether he was there or not. >> and he was at a corh brothers there, a federalist society event or koch brothers event. >> exactly. >> i'm asking the question. was he at a federalist society event, which he clearly put on his form, four days paid for, he's not denying it, he said he was there, he did that. you're saying it was something different he was a koch brothers event? >> we think there's a strong likelihood that it was, yeah. there's no record of a federalist society event, so -- >> okay. mr. smith? >> let me take this further, of course, to give the nature of the complaint. they have several counts. one of alleged counts, so to speak is that clarence thomas is on the supreme court. engine ip ginny tom was worked for, at on the board runs a man who runs a consulting business. one of his clients at times has been the koch brothers. the koch brothers used the constitutional liberties that the court affirmed. and the koch brothers then used that liberty in the last campaign. from that common cause wants you to hold that justice clarence thomas i just don't think -- it's just a partisan effort to sort of discredit the court, and it's the kind of thing that historically liberalists have sort of championed the independence of the court. we shouldn't let conservatives or others maid broadsided attacks, and i think common caution is engaging in that tactic, not to excuse what conserve 'tises may have done in the past. there's no question of bias here and this complaint is just to gain attention and try to discredit the court. >> thank you both. up next, bernie may solve says the big investment banks had to know he was run ago ponzi scheme. is madoff right? was everyone willing to look the other way to make a buck? that's ahead, this is "hardball," only on msnbc. eading me back to my old office. i think it might be broken. or maybe it's trying to tell you something. yeah, but what could it be trying... oh, i left my 401(k) at my old job. and i left a jacket on the back of my door. but i think the line is talking about my 401(k). leave a 401(k) behind? roll it over with the company that's helping more people reach retirement than anyone else. when it comes to investing, never settle. fidelity investments. jay carney finally met the press. i was watching it. karney, a former "time" magazine reporter has the challenge of straddling the old line with his old colleagues and the new job. a topic he addressed in his first question with the press. >> i work to promote the president and the message that he's trying -- the messages he's trying to convey to the american people, but i also work with the press to try to help you do your jobs, to help you quofr the white house, cover the administration and report on what we're doing here. >> karney replaced robert gibbs, who left to work on president obama's campaign. 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[ engine revs ] [ flag blowing in wind ] that man bernie may solve broke his silence, telling "new york times" the big banks and hedge funds had no problem turning a blind eye to his massive ponsist scheme. he said, quote, they had to know, but the attitude was sort of if you're doing something wrong, we don't want to know about it. in an e-mail he wrote, i'm saying the banks were complicit. for more, let's turn to jim cramer. host of"mad money." i hear you're skeptical as i was of anybody talking in federal prison. first, they all say they're innocent. that won't work. but he's trying to say i'm not the only one. you know the old line liberals like to use, at our worst, i must say. we're all guilty. we're all guilty. but let's be serious now. banks have a fiduciary duty. they're all getting paid back with rapid cash that seems to be coming from the second line of people giving money, doesn't the bank notice a ponzi scheme in operation? can't they see it just by looking at the books? >> i know some of the banks that are being suggested that they were complicit. for instance, they're looking at jpmorgan. i think that they may have been confused by madoff. when i say confused, it just seemed like he was doing too well. but chris, when you see something like that, your natural instinct is to be able to say well, wait a second, what does the sec think of this? if the securities and exchange commission has blessed this, who are we to question it? i had a friend trying to replicate the returns that madoff was getting. couldn't do it. but didn't feel it was any of his business to be able to tell the sec listen, i can't do it. always felt there was a missing piece of the puzzle. without the government, you can't possibly take it upon yourselves to say the guy is guilty. >> well, can you see looking at the balance sheet of a bank that a guy is pouring out of it without making any investments? he's simply shifting the more recent deposits back to the original depositors. this is the best investment in history. >> no, you can't see. i have both been on the buy side -- i ran a hedge fund, and the sell side. i worked as a broker at goldman. it would be almost impossible to detect the in-out like that. and there's always an excuse for it. and there's the confidentiality issue of it. these are very sensitive things. you know, you call bernie madoff and say i don't understand the money in-out, he pulls the wire. or he says the sec was just in here, which is what i understand he said constantly. you can question me, but the sec gave me a clean bill of health. >> well, a high-level risk management officer for jpmorgan chase sent an e-mail to colleagues that said, i am sitting at lunch with a bank executive who just told me there's a well-known cloud over the head of madoff and that his returns are speculated to be part of a ponzi scheme. he said he google the guy and we can see articles for ourselves. is that evidence? >> no, there's not. there were a lot of people saying there could be issueses. that was the common parlance. i come back to -- i know i thought this, too. i heard the things -- >> why is he shoveling this stuff out of the federal prison in north carolina? he's in for life. he's not getting out. is this just to screw people, he gets in the headlines? what is this about? >> i think it's exactly that. i think he wants to try to bring down other institutions. he's been brought down. i think he also immediately says those who did cash in on it, the owner of the mets, they were totally innocent. if anyone knew about it, it would have been them. they say they don't. but this is a story that's been thrown out there. it's a it wille outrageous. the friends who i know at some of these banks who were very skeptical of madoff, they went over and over again, listen, drop the skepticism. the sec says this guy is mr. clean. >> thank you. i love you, cramer. you're the best. philly cramer. they're going to do it this year. "mad money" airs weeknights at 6:00 and 11:00 eastern on cnbc. we need to get some answers about why we went to war with iraq. you can help. i'm asking you to do something tonight. it's not hard. you can do it. it's making a phone call. you're watching "hardball" only on msnbc. ancial has never taken government bailout money, yet no one knows our name. ♪ get down tonight that's about to change. so you'll pay for the tour, but i have to change my name? no, you're still kc, but from now on, they will be the sun life band. it's funky. sooner or later, you'll know our name. sun life financial. this is mary... who has a million things to pick up each month on top of her prescriptions. so she was thrilled that her walgreens pharmacist recommended a 3-month supply and would always be there to answer questions about her health. now mary gets 3 refills in one and for 3 months, she's done. more or less. ask your pharmacist about a 90 day supply and get a free gift. walgreens. there's a way to stay well. 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[ male announcer ] ducati knows it's better for xerox to manage their global publications. so they can focus on building amazing bikes. with xerox, you're ready for real business. let me finish tonight with a call to arms. i want you all to call your united states senator and ask him or her to sup por hearings into the corrupt, bogus and unpatriotic way this country was marched to war eight years ago. 202-224-3121. we now know from the secretary of defense's own hand there were no nuclear weapons in iraq, no production facility to make them, no evidence of such purchase of any weapon, no attempts to buy such weapons, nada. this will be the case, why are 4,400 americans dead, why were 100,000 iraqis killed? why are we the aggressor ourselves? i ask you to call your senator and cite the rumsfeld book and the national intelligence of 2002, which he cites. all this in the book. all this evidence that there were no nuclear weapons in iraq, despite all the talk by president bush and his people about mushroom clouds. john kerry, you could call him, but the best people to call are your own senators, democrat or republican. don't they want an explanation of this historic fraud against the american people? a fraud that cost thousands of our lives, their spouses, their fathers, their brothers? senator, you could say or write, secretary rumsfeld admits in his new book that iraq did not have nuclear weapons. had he admitted this during the war or before the war, rather, the american people would not have backed the war. why aren't you and the rest of the senate raising hell about this? if we had gotten this confession from rumsfeld before shots were fired, we could have stopped the u.s. attack on iraq and those lost people will be with us today. and that will do it. the time has come for full-fledged national hearings about the methods used to take us to a war that never should have been fought. it was based on something that was never true. had george w. bush and his people told the american people and the world again and again that saddam hussein