>> in his private meetings with merkel, he kept making this point. the whole thing is, first, loony in the sense that it's never going to happen, nobody it going to pay back arrears. this is not a country club. it also misses i think something very profound about nato. i think trump almost thinks he's in a bizarre -- if he makes outlandish claims, he'll get a better deal. nato is also a very powerful deterrent to russia and its aggression, to china, to terrorists everywhere, to -- it's been fighting for 15 years in afghanistan. he's undermining that function of nato because foreign policy doesn't operate simply at one level. you're operating at several levels and instead, trump almost thinks he's just in a bizarre trying to haggle for the best price and if he just shames these people publicly, it will work. "a," it won't work, "b," you're undermining the core institution. >> interesting because that's exactly what russia has wanted to do for decades to undermine nato. >> if you were to construct a