you know, you spent -- and not just you, everyone for good reason has spent the first 10 or 15 of their programs talking about the shutdown and getting to the probe stuff later, some of the more uncomfortable stuff later. so in that sense, you know, for the moment, it was something that was a tactical move on his part that worked. the problem is he's in this morass now with no obvious way out. >> so the practical move, right, that you talked about -- i wonder how practical this is, kirsten, because you heard nancy pelosi's remarks after the meeting goading the president. i'm wondering if that's helping any of the 800,000 workers who are sweating it out right now. i'm wondering if the more she pokes at him, the more he may dig in, and if a better strategy would be just be for her and for chuck schumer just to say, every time they come out of a meeting, you know, the president is not negotiating and then just pivot to the workers who are facing hard times. >> yeah, i agree with that. i don't think there's any point