democrats should not want to get ahead of mueller because it will become hyper partisan in that context. they want mueller to make the first move and come in behind him and politically that's critical. >> i can suggest what the next line might be? here's the evidence, then rudy giuliani might say, okay, well it doesn't matter, this was a lie or suborning perjury about something not central to the russia -- it's not collusion. >> before he was president, that's murky. people lie about money all the time just like sex and it's really not at that level that the founders intended. >> but the problem is it is central to the russia issue. the trump tower project, there is a reason the president has tried to down-play it, deny it, to say it didn't happen. there's a reason that his family's involved that gives you a sense of why he wants to down-play this. it is central to the motive, it's a piece of the puzzle of why does he act this way towards russia? why is he taking this -- why