to get manafort loans. we hear one thing after another listed and as i say, a very plain, kind of matter of fact fashion, although what did seem awkward was the fact there was a certain part of the courtroom that gates didn't seem to want to look at. >> the manafort part of the courtroom. >> right. >> let me ask you how they deal with explaining to a jury that someone is a cooperating witness, that they've already pleaded guilty to committing some crimes. does that change or could you detect any change in any of the body language from the jury? did they seem to -- to listen less intently or did they lean in as this was someone who had traded something? how does that go over in a jury? >> so, i was watching the jury as they were describing, or, as i said, as the prosecutors were leading gates through a description of his deal with the government, and the jurors were watching that very intensely. i saw a number of them taking notes on the different provisions of the plea deal and i was struck by the fact that the prosecution seemed to want to get gates' baggage out of the way as quickly as possible.