frankly, medicare and medicaid, which are the tougher issues because they relate to the fundamental delivery of health case they're the ones we got to come to grips with. then there's taxes, increased or not. there's a gap, emotional, political, philosophical, between parties. >> there is a scary game of chicken going on here because i think actually the undersubtext is you republicans were getting just a little bit antsy about being responsible for government shutdown. how much more political punishment do you think there's going to be if you send the economy off the cliff as a result of respective defaults? they're betting in the white house republicans are going to blink first. it's getting fun but it's getting scary. >> these are two trains going towards each other on the same track and it could be a very ugly picture. simon schama, david gergen, thank you. coming up, were you underwhelmed by the president's speech? so was the vice president. in fact, he found it a real