criminalization of homosexual relations. >> when was this? >> back in 1986. and that was the case where powell said he never met a gay person. >> he said that the a closeted gay person. >> that's right. his clerk was gay. but you see how that opinion just sort of monolithic image of the gay community that comes out. and how much we've changed. now the court talks about these are people with children, these are people who have lost loved ones in one state, people who have married in another, they're no longer this monolithic group. they're human beings. you want to pick someone that really conveys that, that these are individual people that are suffering from these laws in very real way. and i think they zoosucceeded i doing that. throughout the filings they came back in the court trying to put a face on these rights. it's not an abstraction any more. not just about the plaintiff, jim obergefell. it's about the way the community litigated this whole thing,