scheme of things very important except to me, what it does do is help prosecutors hopefully establish intent and state of mind because we know that the behavior that's being looked into, tax fraud, tax evasion, et cetera has been going on for decades. so we're looking at setting precedent, and we're looking at state of mind and intent. and that's incredibly important when we're talking about criminal cases. >> and you said many times that whatever was happening, he would have known because control is everything. mary trump, thank you for being with us tonight. good luck going forward. >> thank you. >> all right. now, there is another window into potential distress for the former president, and that is the ongoing criminal investigation into rudy giuliani because of his dealings with ukraine. cnn has just obtained exclusive audio that exposes how trump's