be anyway. what if there's no chris krebs, someone like you who people listen to you when you are a trump-appointed official who says this election was fair. what happens if these people are not in place? >> well t dynamics will certainly be different at the federal level with the current administration in '24 at least. but out there, again, across the country in the 50 states and those state capitals, i think it's a valid question of what happens if you do have a -- someone that's carrying the flag for trump? and what are those legal avenues open? i think one of the things that congress should do now is take a hard look at updating the electoral count act and clarifying who, in fact, the state authority is that would sign out those slates of electors so we don't have a situation where you have a secretary of state sign one slate and a governor sign another. and that was a real threat, a risk in 2020. and i think in 2024 it's even a