confusing people. and if the democrats are disciplined in an impeachment case and put him in the chair where they can counter him with documents and witnesses, that's a whole different place. >> rudy giuliani in his past life was also a skilled prosecutor and he may surprise democrats and may kind of come out swinging as well. and so i think the democrats should probably be cautious in their efforts to kind of corner him, of course like you say if it's just a matter of facts then they'll probably be okay. one issue, though, i want to touch on something molly said, rudy giuliani, the president and even people in the administration whenever giuliani, his conduct strays from the ethical norms of the administration, they say well, he's representing the president in his personal capacity, but at the end of the day, he's been acting in ways that are really concerning a lot of people within the administration, stretching national security protocols. >> and the use of taxpayer funded prag funded operations, he's not operating on his own and he's