that's the case over 50 years ago when the rule was written, when rule 6 was written. it said its normal procedure for witnesses representing both sides of the issue to give testimony at committee hearings. and that's what happened at the december 4th meeting. and that's what happened at the december 9th meeting. let's be honest about the rules. and house resolution 660, i would point out again, provides an opportunity for the president of the united states to come. he could have come on december 4th. he could have sent any of his witnesses. and he didn't. but no one should be surprised. because that's been the president's approach throughout, is to refuse to allow anyone -- anyone -- with the kind of information my colleagues claim they're interested in from coming to testify and answer questions directly. with that i yield to the gentleman from new york, mr. jeffries. >> it's my time. i'd be happy to yield to the