that the president would approach him with something and he'd say, i can't do that. it's illegal. it would test the relationship. this is the president again testing the levers of power within the white house and seeing how far he can push it. >> jeff, what do you make of that? this is the first time that this has been reported at all. >> sure. yeah, no, it sounds like really good reporting, and it raises a couple of questions. as jackie said, about the role of rudy giuliani, both in his relationship with the president as an attorney but also in his sort of broader role of influencing policy for the united states. and number two, it also shows probably one reason why rex tillerson and president trump didn't get along. he said no, and there aren't that many people around the president these days doing that. >> is there anything illegal about asking for that? >> there could be something illegal if you develop more obstruction but it's classically within the realm of abuse of power. the whole point as the president, maybe his arguments as the executive he can tell them who to charge, who not to