times in college for demonstrating against apartheid in south africa. so we got off to a good start and we maintained our friendship right up until the end of his life. >> he was obviously a very controversial figure, considered a terrorist by the u.s. government in the past, labeled one because of waging armed resistance against the apartheid government. some called him a communist. he has praised people who are probably in many ways not deserving of praise such as fidel castro. how do you reconcile the things that are not so great from his past with the unbelievable icon and the man he became? >> well, i think the things for which he was abused didn't show that he was not great, because i think three years ago, as a matter of fact, he was still on the terrorist list by the united states and they only removed him two junes ago. so that doesn't prove there's anything wrong with him.