Transcripts For CSPAN2 Book TV 20120109 : vimarsana.com

Transcripts For CSPAN2 Book TV 20120109



[applause] i suspect there are some of you here with the review of books that we call the new york review of each other's books. the current issue has from the john hof ken's press some of the recent publications untitled confront a history. not the easiest thing to do. history is not an exact science in my relationship with contemporary students i am learning that they have quite a different perspective than i had growing up in a school. i was reading history. and now questions are being asked because history is not the exact science but it evolves and shifts and changes over the years particularly with respect to wars we see them early with the more patriotic memory with more perspective as time goes on sometimes it is there a controversial but that is history. is a changing process. people are beginning to understand that. but what james farwell has done here with the objective history certainly about certain parts of the world the main theme to stresses that history matters. and what jim has done here his present a history of pakistan very, very much needed in this day and time because it will become more and more of a controversial question. i have military officers who serve on the ground to see the consequences that are warning us asking us to take a look at history. those who are more chauvinistic not trying to make any case that that is why i was attracted to this. it is for what is ahead of us in terms of discussion and debate in that part of the world. he looks at it that way but now james farwell is the unusual character week med did that taxicab waterway to a hearing on a way to this and that we worked for president nixon. and i was on dead j. edgar hoover and the list and we had different backgrounds and i discovered he has a play sometime next year in london but also he has worked a strategic communications our strategic understanding. that is why this book is so important part of it does not argue one way or the other but just as the american public to listen to the debate that is ahead of us. so i salute and congratulate jim and the rest of us for having this effort with this troubled parts of the world with a more sense of debate. say he for this very important to work james farwell. [applause] >> >> the key for the introduction and now we can all go home. you have heard all of the great things. joe was gracious enough to vote right to a wonderful introduction to this book that was a lot of fun to write. one of the people here today must be acknowledged in the back of the room and is hiding from me but from the middle east institute, books like this man people like me are lucky enough are lucky enough to meet people like him in others. it was a peer review very extensively by great people. mr. when bob was the chief reader for the book and also richard is kind of to say nice words on the back general scott and general daily there is the enormous sense of relief i finish the book then to general daily as sir richard and say look at the book they say this will be a great book some day. rewrite it. [laughter] one goes through the process then eventually we finish the book. in the very tough taskmaster to make sure i can get right. but it with my background of lawyer and a political consultant, and became involved with the pentagon after 9/11 because people wanted me to look at what the pentagon was doing from the point* of view of a political consultant one thing led to another now almost all my time is devoted to national security. i am interested in how political players use communication to compete for power and how they use communication to consolidate their grip on power. through that dimension that this book examines what makes pakistani politics click. what i learned from local elections and i have done the same thing abroad but those of us to do campaign is what politicians say in public in do in public matters a lot more than what they do our say in private. as an example all of us are watching what is going on with the iowa primary is. who will win the republican nomination for president. you don't need to be in the backroom with mitt romney o.r. rick perry to figure out the dynamics. we can all look at it by watching television that is not apply to every kid to the most entries one of the very few things that most elections around the world are handled by american political consultants. we export our movies and our political consultants. i'm not sure about the value but that is what we do. that is the dimension to which i looked at this and i was also very interested to write the book with the events of 2011 where their current status of pakistani politics. what is the impact of the attack on bin laden not only in pakistan but the dynamic between the united states this and has been very complicated over many decades. one of the conclusions that i reach and i should say my remarks today will not regurgitate what is in the book. it is available as a christmas present commandeers president, easter present i would not want to derive at the pleasure by would talk about that in sight of my research but one thing that strikes me about the post bin laden era at in pakistan is the politics there today are very much the effect of disorganize politics and has very talented people but they give his country the pakistani is get credit for the extra their energy and the amount of talent that the people of that great country have. i have a lot of respect for pakistan. one of the things that is interesting is it does not have strong national identity that has bred a culture of conspiracy in betrayal and a sense of blaming extra influences of which they have no control for their own problems. this of sex in a dramatic way the way people have use communication to the advance their own ambition to undercut those or their adversaries it is a very interesting dynamic that takes place it in pakistan. when you look at the big not an attack did teh's crystallize the nature of the politics at this and the differences the way u.s. looks at things and pakistan. for example, ms. canty said we would track down bin laden no matter how long it took. and if americans had two words that summarized the results of the attack on bin laden, a mission accomplished. they have had a completely different reaction showing 55 percent of pakistan as bought the attack on been lauded killing him was a bad thing. that is not because they think that by lead to extremism is a good thing. but overwhelming margins polling consistently shows to buy land extremism. escalating into hostility what they perceive as american interference so from the mayor can point* of view for the attack on bin laden was a great success from the of pakistani point* of view puts them into a untenable position that they did not know bin laden was there than they looked incompetent and ignorant if they did now than they were composite nobody likes to be put in that position and from the pakistani point* of view it is the latest in a series of breaches of pakistani sovereignty. they are very proud people. they resent what they perceive i am not offering editorial comments this simply saying that this is a country with 180 million people. 100 warheads setter nuclear. to countries that very nearly went to war with india as recently as 2002 and a thanks to the work from the state department the u.s. play dead decisive role to cool off attitudes to help to avert a conflict that had been long brewing into something that was out of control. it is important we understand what makes pakistani politics tick because we have to engage. cannot edt in pakistan is not a prudent option in my opinion. that is one take away i would like to leave with you. what this book did was to examine the dynamics to look at it through the stories of to particular colorful individuals. benazir bhutto, the former prime minister and the other is prove it -- pervez musharraf who would now like to go back to pakistan in march to be president again. pakistan says if he shows back up he will be arrested now he is raising money doing better than any republican candidate for president. but in looking at the stories and how they used communication to get when each one did you get to an interesting feel for the dynamics of the pakistani politics and all of this exist on top of other types of analysis. pakistan is a very complex and conservative societies dominated forever by a feudal aristocracy it is tied together through kinship the dynamics are governed by tribes in leadership's and the pakistan people's party israeli aid her family dynasty and in talking about pakistan that only gets you so far but how people deal with each other you have to look at how many have use communication leg you would in other countries to see what is going on. let's start with benazir which is how she is referred to by everybody because the bhutto family a has enormous influence mini an extended family use the name of that it is easy to understand her father was probably the most famous politician but benazir is a fascinating person i thought she was very striking and 70 who stood out. she was the clearest of political figure 72 from early age had the power to change people's attitudes about her and of themselves and a somebody you at the height of her political career managed to do something that is very rare in the muslim world, to be a powerful and eloquent voice for democratic and religious tolerance she wrote two autobiographies one daughter of the east in the other reconciliation which contains radius how western and each year it -- eastern culture is a muslim culture is could be reconciled but it what is important as a political figure is through her career whether in washington and where you would expect her to say things that are pro-democracy but in the east she was consistent with their advocacy of these ideals pressure was forceful, eloquent and courageous. and the my friend walter isaacson and who is doing wonderful things with his latest book on steve jobs. he was at oxford with her. i was chatting with walter. i ask what did you think she was like? was struck further most of you looked in her eyes there's more courage, determination, she was warm and interesting but it she saw herself as a figure of destiny to succeed at the things that she wanted to do and wanted to make a difference at oxford she became the first asian woman to be elected head of the oxford union. i went to cambridge so you looked down at those people but and rightly so. [laughter] but i cannot help but if they went to the melamine university but to be elected president huffington was one and then benazir became president at oxford is a simple achievement and it really does matter in a glenn traditionally you that the automatic invitation and one of the major political parties and that she was the reverend in interesting person perfectly happy to intervene in the pakistani politics but equally comment -- comfortable with american politics whenever first abates is one she was debating richard nixon making the statement america george washington startup the president here refused to tell a lie abed now they had a president who could not tell the truth. the point* is this is somebody who had opinions and was not afraid to express them but equally she was not always totally serious. to propose debate topics this house would rather roxanne role. she was not surprisingly a very charismatic person and very popular. she goes back to pakistan where her father is a prime minister and arrives at the point* where her father is facing problems with the military and pakistan something that is familiar but important to stress, as the power in that country does not rest within the elected civilian government. it rest with the military and that has been true since pakistan was formed. her father was mince raising her i've not his band you cannot deny his billions of populace 21 could argue embraced socialist policies after all had gone to school is in california where you pick these things up being from mexia and i have to laugh then was in me saying politician and a populist who never failed to put together a populist parties and he could have a political base from which to operate. but he understood the necessity to have army chief of staff he could trust and the intelligence services were wary because to put it mildly he was as though by sucker punched him a as the army chief of staff because he looked like a conservative general who would not get anything done done, what does he have to fear? everything he would stage a coup after a snap election was called on the fisa of the intelligence services. this is tantamount to obama allow wayne herman cain to decide his political strategy for reelection. it was not one of the smartest things and as soon as the coup was staged they instituted a dictatorship aimed to at making a more radical form of islam, than and a lot of the land and realizing that bhutto would not go way that is the difference between this country and pakistan. if you run for president and you lose come a two things have been for you should make note of this. you get at talk show. second, you get a best seller. if you wonder how to succeed with the typical american success story is to run for president. with pakistan bad thing this could happen you could be a killer forced into exile. they probably would have exiled him but they knew he would not disappear from the scene but he staged the trial and accused bhutto of murder not too late did he understand his life was really in danger somebody interviewed him in prison and said what you doing? he said i'm spending my time reading about the napoleon figure but it had a tragic outcome because of what was enacted of judicial murder the court convicted him of much of -- murder so he was among them perpetrated the most awful cruelty use on benazir put into prison on the most hideous conditions. what is interesting is the fortitude in courage benazir dressed this horse ship it would broker killed most individuals but truly a woman of courage truly determined to 26 cdn fell whenever destiny she had envisioned for herself and thanks to the ambassador to blow the whistle on the karzai eight election fraud he helped to get her release from prison book of. after exile now we learned something else about the nature of the pakistani politics that you have this curious alternation the military has contempt for civilian leadership from a military point* of view the concept is we are professional you are promoted on merit, not of patronage civilians are corrupt all they do is by political power to decide how they divide the spoils so we have to come back to do the right they for pakistan. that is their attitude. one must understand how they look at life but he is killed in a mysterious plane crash and they decided this time to hold elections so benazir returns home and once again she is 35 years old. 35. at my age i think they are in high school which is probably a function of what happens when you grow older people look much younger than they are but to go back into the country, the history her family has had knowing the intelligence services are out to get her takes courage. to put this into context, if you look at people who dress up blue jeans" end quote. two jd varo or be a part of the protest it is easy to say there is said dissident who was to stand up against the establishment recall that cheap signal. there is a big difference between talking about changing a government and preaching the need for a transformation and put your life on the line going into a very hostile situation to risk your life to fight for something you want to believe them. it is not enough to say of course, if it is this country and you can get a talk show you're like the two be killed if you're not careful. that says something about what walter said earlier this being a woman of steel and i think she showed this through her career. she is welcomed by millions of people and outfoxes the intelligence service that out itself with its imagination trying to maligned heard good name. a fact she was a woman was counted against her. her husband, the current president has the moniker the press constantly quote. there have been some wonderful books lately one of the interesting things is a lot of journalist just assume that the kiss he is called mr. 10 percent that is because somehow he had a reputation for being corrupt when he came back but the fact is that his election as mayor devised by the pakistani intelligence services. that is how the intelligence services discredit people they want to new discredit to accuse them of being corrupt in the society that most to believe is corrupt. whether as a dowry is there is not i don't know. what is important is it is part of the currency of the discourse. depending upon how you use the charges like better how one response to charges like that affects your ability to exercise political power so again, my book looks at that from my point* of view but benazir had to put up with all of this and one and was lucky. in this case we had the unusual able ambassador he went with her to talk to the generals because although she had won the election the last thing they had been a complete set to miss or the 35 year-old to become prime minister. it took a lot of negotiating and u.s. pressure which helped to persuade the pakistani military to take office. they impose conditions as she could not interfere with the military or afghanistan and had to stay out of the secret nuclear program. but the letter take power. they then use all of their influence, of this is a great story. to go private lot of the talented people she might have brought into government. 35 years old and takes office and walks into almost a bare office and she is very clever. would you do 35 years old prime minister but countries like pakistan and not sure what to do? it is easy to say i want to be president or prime minister but then you have to do -- figure out what to do. she went to england to downey street and not destruction on how to run a parliamentary government. very ingenious for her to do. an example of her resourcefulness that she continued to display throughout her life. during the first 10 years on prime minister she got more done in her critics saw and could repeal the four parts of the law that made it very difficult not only for a woman who was raped to complain about it but to put them into the check box because if you complain your rate without witness is then they put you in jail for adultery with all of the punishments. it was a terrible hanna-barbera:00. she did not have the political guts to repeal that inevitably the military gets rid of her and you see the musical chairs taking place between her and omar sharif to lose more pro-business compared to benazir who is more populist new the wind got on well with the military but the point* of benazir this is somebody who refused to take no for an answer so the next time there was an office she came right back in won again and this continues through all of these things somebody who has the resolve to do something. now let's stop for a minute to talk about pervez musharraf became president as a result of a soft to from 1999 the army chief of staff who did not dead along with shrieve who was a prime minister at the time he literally tried to kill him because when his plane was coming back it was not landing right and running at a fuel and would have crash landed a set musharraf thought quickly and those generals who knew him figure out what was on in -- going on they manage to save the situation when he is ejected into exile in musharraf takes power as a liberal autocrat whatever that means though some ways they have to say he is more liberal minded that he was not the absolute dictator but musharraf is an interesting example of the kind of people that co

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