visiting our website cspan.org/history. but we're so thrilled to be back open and to be able to have world-class authors and all around great human beings like craig back on our campus and i think most of us know that craig is one of the definitive biographers on ronald reagan. in fact the london telegraph hailed him as the best of the reagan biographers. but he has proven through books like mary ball washington citizen newton december 1941 that he's also one of the best historian authors out there. speaking of which i'm sure you all know. he's here tonight to talk about april 1945 is much awaited book to the previously mentioned december 1941. for me the book couldn't come at a better time. see the break-in library's next special exhibition is called the secrets of world war two and it opens on april 2nd. it's a collection of hundreds of artifacts from museums and private collections. never before seen together in order to tell compelling stories of technological advancement creative problem solving and incredible human persistence under the backdrop of the world's. just a most destructive war in history. i quickly dug into craig's book to refresh my memory on the end of the war and to gain insight about what was going on around the world and those final few months. what i quickly found was a history book that read like a novel a book that covered the war and what soldiers were encountering just as much as a book that covered what was happening the homefront and abroad what average citizens were seeing and doing and even wearing it is a fascinating look into that era of our history. while preparing for our world war two exhibition i have had the distinct and distinct honor and privileged to interview a handful of world war two veterans heroes all but we also needed to speak with some historians to help provide context for our gallery videos of which those veterans videos would be played. thankfully we set up an interview with craig which we actually conducted right before this event tonight. so if you do come back to see our world war two exhibition not only will you see the interviews with our veterans playing in the galleries. you will see our interview with craig. craig's an informative and entertaining walking encyclopedia on world war two which makes me even more excited to bring them up here to discuss his book. so let's get started. ladies and gentlemen, craig shirley. thank you, of course, so i mentioned to craig before this started that reading this book led to like 93,000 questions, which i know we're not going to have time for because we want to make sure we have time for your questions as well. so we'll try and get through some of these and if we don't get to one that you want to hear we will take questions at the end. so as i mentioned you have a book on new kindred you have books on ronald reagan you have books on, you know, mary ball, washington. you have a book on 1941 and now you have a book on 1945. why did you not just write a book about world war two as a whole? attention. i don't think i know the answer is inspiration. one day. i just i just had this inspirational one day. there's been many many books written about world war two and they've been many many books written about december 7th. 1941. gordon pranks at dawn we slept is the standard by which every other book is mastered. it's a absolutely marvelous book, but nobody had ever ridden to best buy knowledge a book about the domestic side of what was going on in the united states during the month of december and how it radically changed because we change completely we change governmentally we change economically we change politically we change culturally we change every which way because of that month. and so i i pitch the idea to my publisher they like the idea very much i wrote it and took three or four years to write it and it came out to good reviews and was in new york times best sell. so i didn't have a plan to write april 1945 after it was not part of my plan to write a companion book because in the interviewing time the next 10 years, i wrote several reagan books and new citizen newt and and mary ball washington and a lot of op-eds and things but it was just a inspiration that came to me that april 1945 is just packed with history. just every day is a red letter day. and so that was what after thinking about i realized that nobody again had ever in a book about that monumental month. well that actually leads perfectly into my next question. i mentioned this do you upstairs before we came down here? you know you covered there's a chapter on january chapter on february, march april and then beyond more so in january than the other months, but you literally are saying you know on january 1 1945. these are all the things happening. yes in the united states in the world. and here's what's happening on january 2nd. and here's what's happening. january 3rd, how do you determine what you're going to cover? i don't know when i get up in the morning. i mean i have i drive during crazy because she says why aren't you writing? why don't you writing it says i tell her i said i am right i'm writing in my head. i'm thinking about it. i'm thinking about and then i sit down my computer then it all just like raymond chandler said, you know just throw up into your typewriter and that's what i do. i let it all out into my laptop and and write it that way but who's your question? right? how do you choose which of these events each time? you know i have melissa, i have a yellow legal tablet. i have a list of about 25 books. i want to write and it grows ever longer and the list. i'm going to expire long before the list does is that but you know, i right in the book for instance about mary ball washington really got me interested in the 18th century. so now on a right something about not about valley forge, but about morristown, which was actually it was winter encampment by the revolutionary army and it was actually far worse than valley forge and this is not been explored enough. so i'm thinking about writing about the book about that, but i'm also thinking about writing a book about about bojangles and i got that idea actually bill robinson my father when he was a little boy used to go to new york city for the saint patrick's day parade and bill robinson would tap dance down fifth avenue leading the parade and that always kind of gave me goosebumps. and of course he was in all those shirley temple movies and all that and i thought you know, this is and then the the song you know got me by the nitty gritty dirt band really, you know his i've had in the back of my mind for a long time to do because nobody's ever done a book about bill robinson. so that's in the back of my mind. so and i'm gonna write more reagan books. i'm working on two right now one. i'm editing and one. i'm actually and then i'm going to write about a book about about donald trump. so my dance card is pretty full. i'm lucky to remember to brush my teeth. i don't know. back again to the january chapter just because it's kind of strike struck me interestingly. you're going through each day and you're talking about things like christmas of 44 leading into january 45 christmas a 44 was like christmas sales shopping spiked by like 17% and as you're talking about a different months you're talking about what makeup women are wearing and what happens they're wearing and so we're americans not as concerned about what was going on in the world in the war. oh, no, they're very concerned americans. is that this nation has always been divided. we were the historians will tell you that during the american revolution as many as 30% they estimate as many as 30% of the american people were actually opposed to the revolution. we're not unified at all and as a matter of fact to the revolution something a hundred thousand people left because they did not want to live under the well our than the articles of confederation. they went to british guiana. they went back to great britain and that right there is a book right there about 100,000 people leaving the civil war certainly was an annunciation of our divisions. is that the only time in the united states history where we've been totally united is the afternoon december 7th, 1941 and the for several months after september 11th, but even then that didn't last we're defined by our unit by our divisions. we've always been to buy we're divided about vietnam war we're divided about women's rights about civil rights about the environment. we're divided about everything and then we form consensus. that's the brilliance of the american system of government. so this is a two-part question. you know reading this book, of course. i think we all are aware of what was going on in germany and the holocaust and and hitler and the nazis i think and maybe i'm just naive but i forgot about the brutality of japan they were they were i mean in your book or talking about how they would throw up babies and bayonet them for fun. you know what so i said to part questions, but what made it about that era and these leaders that made that acceptable behavior that the countries could get behind and then what was it about the japanese cruelty? i was shocked by it. yeah, i don't know how you explained evilness. i don't think rational people can explain evilness, but evil did exist and evil exist today in the world. is that the japanese were first of all, there was a shogunate culture a very masculine culture that had grown up over japan in the 20s and 30s and which led them to want to create a militaristic government, you know, and you know, hero, you know taking over parts of indochina and they what led to december 7th. they wanted to have complete control of the central and western pacific without any interference for the united states. is that but they were absolutely horrible. there was a there's a story in the book here about a pacific island of polynesians and they were thought to be there were peaceful loving native, you know, and they were thought to be sympathetic to america. so the japanese knew this and they went in one day and they just machine gun everybody on the island just a little boy just blown away. they had a group of american navy pows. in the shogunate culture, you have to understand. is that the worst form of humiliation. is that one man can imprison another man if one man can imprison another man, then he is not worthy. he is not worthy. he's worthless and they had this attitude, you know with with american pows, like for instance they had a group of american navy pows. so they marched out made them dig a trench in the sand marched down inside and then covered then poured gasoline on them and burnt and burned them to death and the reason it was verified. was it actually some escaped and got back to macarthy's forces and and told their tail about them being burned to death, but that was not unusual for that japanese culture that japanese government at the time. they didn't have the regard for life that americans did for instance. i say for instance a lot of sorry, is that if a japanese pilot was down in the pacific the japanese navy wouldn't pick him up. they just let them go they just let him drowned if an american pilot was down in the pacific he was he was picked up as soon as possible they had much different regard for human life than than we did in 1945. sees i was cruelty of the nazis, but you also really talked about the insanity of hitler if i can use the word insanity. when it was march and april of 1945, and it was clear that the allies were going to win the war did hitler really think he was still going to win. was that propaganda? yes. yeah, he was he was crazy. anyway, let's face. it was crazy and we'd actually done the predecessor to the cia the oss had done a psychological pro. they hired a harvard psychologist to do a psychological profile made up hitler. i talk about the book here, but about all the problems all the all the screw up problems of this man what led him to be the he was is that right to the and he believed his own propaganda, joe did the all the other nazi bosses leaders all believe their own propaganda even as an army their patents army was advancing the third army and the soviet army was advanced some of the east they you know, they were doing things they were cutting off food supplies for civilians. they were cutting off communications for civilians. they're doing they were taking it out in civilians here. they're taking from civilians and giving to the military to stave off the inevitable and but but hitler is right to the end believed his own lies. and one of the things that i read in your book that i did not know speaking of hitler is somewhere in here. it said that he was considering surrendering because he thought surrendering would help would help lead to world war 3. can you talk about that? there was a great debate among churchill and and fdr whether or not we were accept surrender from nazi germany or whether we wanted unconditional surrender. we wanted them to we wanted to war trials. we wanted, you know punishment meted out to these thugs who would created this war in the first place. so there was the churchill was for unconditional war unconditional surrender whereas stalin was for unconditional surrender, but there were people around franklin roosevelt who were just for surrender just not unconditional. just let's get it over with you know, let's the wars the wars one. let them stay in power but there are others like for instance. i saw eisenhower wanted hitler deposed and and put on trial along with all the other nazi thugs which leads perfectly into my next question, you know fdr was our first and only four-time president. i'm actually going to read this. he's a president that ronald reagan once called an american giant a leader who shaped inspired and let our people through perilous times. how critical was fdr's four terms in america's stance involvement and victory with the war all all encompassing he is, you know, john patrick diggins was an historian who since passed away a couple years ago. he was friend of mine. he was actually part of the free speech movement at berkeley and actually did battle with then governor reagan over campus protests, but he later this liberal became an admirer of brown reagan. he wrote a book called fate freedom and ronald reagan fate freedom and making of history and in this book this this liberal professor says that our four greatest presidents are george washington abraham lincoln franklin roosevelt and ronald reagan because it makes the academic case because they freed or save many many people and that was a criteria. greatness was does a president actually affect the outcome for the betterment of many many people and i think you know, his criteria is pretty good. and so fdr, although he failed with the great depression unemployment in 1939 was the same as it was in 1933, but at least you gave american people hope he gave the american people hope and that was very very important. you know, he was trying he was he was capitalist, but he wasn't committed socialist or something like that, but he was willing to try whatever worked, you know, the wpa or the conservative the conservation corps or other new deal programs, but where he was really really masterful was as a war leader because he didn't interfere. he did what reagan reagan i think reagan. i i haven't researched enough but reagan believed, you know way to assemble the governance you surround yourself with good people and then you let them do their jobs fdr had that same approach toward the war and if you think about it. all the brilliant men who had serving in wartime. he had eisenhower and he had nimitz he had king and he had patent and he had marshall and he had macarthur and he had so many others omar bradley so many other superb military leaders, and he didn't interfere he would meet with them. he would ask questions for them, but he didn't interfere. he'd let them conduct the war they saw fit and that was what his real brilliance was in in conducting the war of world war two, but you know, he was he was for all intensive purposes. he was not just president of states during world war two he was president of the world. he we were not only supplying the us service man, but we were surprised supplying the british service man, and we were supplying the soviet service man. we were sending them food stops material and and uniform. things whatever they needed. we were supplying them. so he was he was running a global war, you know, he was coming to the varsity operator and churchill and style and were somewhat junior varsity. i know that sound conducted a brilliant not brilliant, but a a massive campaign from the east and many many russians died as a result, but but he still in terms of supply and and command he was still junior varsity operator compared to churchill compared to roosevelt. excuse me, you know, it's funny because you just said roosevelt was president of the world, which is literally my next question. i said in my question you called him in your book the president of the world. so when he passed away when he died which earth shattering to the world no, yeah, my mother god bless is still alive. she's 88 88 80 9 8 9 89 grew up in the 30. and she like many other american children. thought we only had three presidents that washington lincoln and franklin roosevelt. that's what she thought and there was no explanation for succession when secession succession when he died. there was no explanation for well the vice president truman becomes president now, there's no explanation to hurt that she that she she you know young teenager, but is that fdr when fdr died flags in moscow were hung at half staff is it was a world shaking event people just couldn't believe it and of course, you know his tragic too. i mean, obviously that's always tragic but he was only 63 years old, but he was carrying the burdens of the world. it was he was obviously strickland polio so that had to affect him healthwise and couldn't his circulation. he was a good eater, but he didn't eat salty foods. he you know ate a lot of butter and mud and bread and fatty foods and things like that. he had his fives what eleanor called his five seas, you know every afternoon or five o'clock. he would make himself, you know, none of martini, but old-fashioned or a manhattan those who was two favorite drinks and and he would you know, so he's drinking not drinking heavily, but enough to you know, cause damage and then he smoked two to three packs a day of built on this lucky's and in the yeah, i know yeah you filters lucky so, you know dead. yeah death on wheels and so all and the burdens of running the united states government and running the war and and he's got for sons in the military. oh and combat all endangered zones. he's got a wife who is not henpecking him, but she is i have great admiration for eleanor roosevelt, i think. she obviously modernized the office of of the first lady, but she was also a very good person i think but she had she had her agenda and so he had to deal with that. so he's dealing with his family. he's dealing with his white house staff. he's dealing with congress a recalcitrant congress, you know, they didn't go and mark they didn't go in lockstep with whatever roosevelt wanted they often opposed him. so, you know, it's understandable in a way diet and everything else the stress why he passed away at age 63, but it was unbelievable. it was one of those things and i'll show up. it was one of those things where people know where they were when they heard it right? i know where i was on november 22nd 1963. i know where i was on september 11th. i know i wasn't alive on december 7th, but my parents were and they knew where they were when they heard about december 7th, and it was same thing with fdr's passing was that 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