investigation would play out or how strong it would be, for example. what do you make of the overall case here, that the democrats are constructing? do you find it -- i mean, you were around as i was when nixon and clinton were impeached. how does it compare to those two? >> well, you know, bill clinton just quickly, bill clinton did lie to a grand jury, all right, broke a law. richard nixon, the tapes made it clear he was wrong when he said he had nothing to do with the break-in at watergate. paul: and he plotted the cover up. >> there were identifiable things. here they haven't come up with a smoking gun. the bigger problem is that by nancy pelosi, by raising this to the level of impeachment, has raised the bar impossibly high. everyone can agree or disagree about the rightness or wrongness of what donald trump did with the president of ukraine, intervening, trying to get him to investigate joe biden.