Transcripts For MSNBC MSNBC Special Coverage 20120111 : vima

MSNBC MSNBC Special Coverage January 11, 2012



people than washington alternatives, how do we raise taxes and cut spending in a way that causes you pain on the spending side and causes you pain on the tax side is exactly backwards. i was really struck, this is part of learning. when we had a debate the other day and asked the question about the heating assistance program. it was phrased in a perfectly washington way. are you going to run a bigger deficit so you can help more people or are you going to cut people off and hurt them so you can shrink the deficit. nobody on the panel asking the question seemed to consider an alternative. what if we simply went out and developed american oil and gas? brought down the cost of heating oil, and didn't need to help people, because the price came down? that idea of doing more and doing it better does not exist in the washington lexicon. and it makes it very hard for our friends, the news media, to cover, because it's so strange. what if you just were innovative? what if you just had new approaches? what if you just did everything americans have always done? the fact is, the entrepreneurial free enterprise system, which attracted people from benjamin franklin to the wright brothers to henry ford, to thomas edison, to bill gates, to steve jobs, that model of maximizing the development of new approaches, new energy, new opportunities, new technology has raised the standard of living of people across this planet more than any other system in the history of the world. with your help -- you've been wonderful to us here. and i'm asking each of you not to slow down. in the next couple of days, make a list of every person you know in south carolina and every person you know in florida, because those are the next two great contests. and i believe as we get to south carolina, as the choice becomes clear, as people understand that there is a bold, reagan conservative approach of lower taxes, less regulations, more american energy, a sound dollar, and actually being in favor of creating jobs, the opposite of the obama program of higher taxes, more regulation, less american energy, and attacking the people who create jobs, look at those two models. i believe we can reach out and we can create a majority that will shock the country and a majority that will begin to put us back in the right track. it is doable. it is a daunting challenge, but consider the alternatives. if we do not go the extra mile and we do not offer a vision powerful enough to unify americans, and we continue down the road that obama has us on, but more than obama, the bureaucracy has us on, the judges have us on, the entire pattern of how washington operates has us on, more years of decay, more years of inadequacy, more years of falling behind, more years of growing weakness. that's the alternative. i believe that it will take someone who is capable of debating barack obama, face-to-face, delivering the conservative message, winning the argument in order to overcome his billion-dollar machine. with your help, as your spokesperson, representing your values, on behalf of our children, our grandchildren, and our country, i will do everything i can to win the opportunity to represent you this fall in debating and then defeating barack obama. thank you and good luck and god bless you. >> former speaker of the house, newt gingrich, declaring tonight that he is not out of the race. the man with whom he is fighting it out, the man who he is fighting it out with for fourth place, rick santorum, also declaring tonight that he is not getting out of the race. nobody getting out of the race after new hampshire tonight. one week after the iowa caucuses, mitt romney wins again in new hampshire. mitt romney now making history by making it two for two. >> thank you, new hampshire! tonight we made history! >> never before has a republican non-incumbent won in both iowa and new hampshire. has the former massachusetts governor established himself as the man to beat for the gop presidential nomination? is he the prohibitive favorite? >> it's about more than replacing a president, it's about saving the soul of america. >> nbc news projecting texas congressman ron paul as the second place finisher tonight. the texas congressman tonight declaring himself happy with second place. >> i called governor romney a short while ago, before he gave his talk, and congratulate him, because he certainly had a clear-cut victory, but we're nibbling at his heels. >> the look on his face is as important as the words he said. also, the man who bet everything on new hampshire, jon huntsman, the apparent third place finisher tonight. the former utah governor vowing to fight on to the next contest of the 2012 republican presidential nomination. >> i'd say third place is a ticket to ride, ladies and gentlemen! hello, south carolina! >> on this night, four years ago, mitt romney said he had won another silver, after having placed second in iowa and second in new hampshire. he's won both iowa and new hampshire this time around. let's go back to chris matthews in manchester. chris? >> thank you, rachel. i'm here with debbie wasserman schultz, the u.s. congresswoman from florida, but also, of course, the chair of the democratic national committee. here we feel a fairly, i guess, expected set of results, although there were questions early on, even today, about who would come in second. it's clear now that ron paul has taken the excitement away from the huntsman campaign by grabbing second place, making no other credible democrat have that opportunity to say i'm second to mitt. now it looks like going into your part of the country, two elections from now, they'll be in florida, my question is, it looks like romney, is this the guy you were planning to face? >> well, we've been focused on trying to build our campaign the most significant, robust grassroots campaign in presidential history. we've got seven offices around the state of new hampshire. we've had 500 events. we had 25 house parties around the state tonight. and tomorrow, when all of the republican candidates pack up and go on to south carolina, we will be kicking off the most significant grassroots campaign that new hampshire's ever seen and on to winning the state again for president obama in november of this year. >> well, let me ask you -- let's go to the micro questions. we've now come through two states, both of which are definitely in play. is that correct? neither state is safely in the president's column, neither iowa nor new hampshire? >> both iowa and new hampshire are usually battleground states. this cycle won't be any exception. i think it's important, though, to make a couple of observations about the outcome tonight. mitt romney got about 36% of the vote. four years ago, chris, he got about 32% of the vote. i mean, in his, what is essentially his home state, for him to only do a handful of points better than he did four years ago, after campaigning for five years, that's really not anything to write home about. you could really declare it a loss, because he should have blown the doors off in this state. in addition to that, the republican turnout was off about 40% from the turnout in 2008, showing that this is not a field that their side is very enthusiastic about. >> so you're saying that he's going to be the nominee, but he won't be a strong nominee. >> i would say that there are supporters in the republican party, aren't quite fired up and ready to go. >> and nothing's going to change in florida? >> well, i don't detect anymore enthusiasm in florida for candidates who believe that we should focus on keeping the wind at the backs of people who are already doing well, while president obama's fighting for the middle class and working families. >> last question, was there damage done to him and all these charges by newt gingrich and the others, santorum and perry, to the effect that he ran a chop shop? that he's basically in the business of taking apart companies, not building jobs? >> the scrutiny that's been paid to mitt romney, that he has been a turnaround specialist, that specialized in dismantling companies and offshoring jobs certainly did him some damage and rightfully so. >> will you guys make use of that? those charges made by the republicans? >> we think the economic experience that he's hanging his candidacy on needs to be scrutinized and we'll be making sure we help people do this. >> and utilized and destroyed. thank you, debbie wasserman schultz, u.s. congresswoman from florida and the chair of the democratic national committee. back to you, rachel. >> thank you, chris, and congresswoman wasserman schultz. tom brokaw is with us from new york. tom, great to have you with us. americans looking at these results tonight, what should americans know about what these results mean both for republican party politics, but also for what happens next? >> i think there's some fundamental truths to come out of tonight. first of all, both in iowa, and especially tonight in new hampshire, the voters, especially those in new hampshire, who are able to go under the sanctity of a voting booth, it appears that they were making their judgments on electability and who's best able to do something about the economy. this is an impressive win on the part of governor romney tonight, especially when you look at the number of independents that he was able to pull into the republican voting booths tonight and get that group that four years ago were so strong for president obama. we just heard from newt gingrich, obviously, talking about how he's going to save the economy when he goes into south carolina and into florida in the future. there was less of the conservative theology from him tonight, so he understands that mitt romney now has a big head of steam going into south carolina. the real issue in that state, and i've been talking to a number of people down there, is what kind of a jihad they're going to have in the republican primary? will it begin a process of self-immolation, and that's what terrifies a lot of people, including a lot of conservatives. but tonight mitt romney does have great momentum to going into south carolina. could be a much tougher state for him. it's quite striking to me, after i've been at this for a long time, as you know, that two out of the three leading candidates in new hampshire tonight were mormons. and the other one, ron paul, was a libertarian. that was not so surprising. so politics has changed profoundly in this country. and south carolina, here we come. >> in terms of looking ahead to that south carolina contest, tom, when you look at the dynamics within the republican party and sort of, i guess, the feeling among other republicans, as mitt romney moves forward from strength to strength, from iowa to new hampshire, is the tone of the attacks on mitt romney, taking him on for his time at bain capital, these attacks of him as a looter, as a vulture capitalist. is that unexpected within the party? >> no, i don't think it's entirely unexpected. he thought he got some very strong support today from ron paul, saying this is the nature of a free market economy and capitalism, and it's unclear just how much damage bain capital did to really productive companies. in many instances, as you know, they say that they had to go in and change those companies, because they were going broke on their own. that's something that will play out in the course of the next several days. in south carolina, by the way, it's a very conservative state. it's a state, the punitive leader of the state right now is jim demint, probably the most conservative member of the united states senate. nikki haley, the governor, a republican, is in some difficulty. her approval rate is well below 50% at this point. so there's a real conservative fight going on in that state. but most people in south carolina say the big issue, jobs, jobs, and jobs. it's a state that's been hit hard. and if the voters of south carolina set aside a lot of the conservative theology, as i've been describing it, and go into the voting booth concerned only about the economy, that's good news for mitt romney, obviously. >> tom, we have seen insurgent candidacies of different types on both sides of the aisle, but in particular in republican politics, i'm looking back to pat buchanan. when you look at the ron paul success, with a strong third place finish in iowa and this second place finish tonight in iowa, do you see an insurgency of a different kind, or is this something we can expect to follow, contours that were set out by other republicans who have been sort of outsiders within their own party? >> you know what's so striking to me about his success is the number of young voters he gets, rachel. and i think that's the tip of the iceberg. a lot of young voters who are coming out of college with great college debt, unable to get a job, worried about the high cost of entitlements for their generation downstream are looking for someone who runs completely counter to conventional politicians. and ron paul does that. and in his own -- and i use this in the best sense of the word now -- homely downhome way, he gets his message across, especially in those debates. >> tom brokaw, thank you. it is invaluable to have you with us on nights like this. i really appreciate it, sir. >> thank you very much. when we return, chuck todd will be joining us to talk about probably the biggest headline out of new hampshire tonight, other than the fact that mitt romney has won. yes, mitt romney has won. but you know what else happened tonight? nobody got out. why do the candidates who did not win tonight all decide that they would stay in this race? chuck todd joins us with some answers to that question when we come back. tonight in new hampshire, nbc projects that mitt romney is the winner of the new hampshire republican primary. in second place, texas congressman ron paul, at this point with 24% of the vote, this is with 71% of the vote counted, mitt romney at 38, ron paul at 24, jon huntsman in third place tonight with 17% of the vote. rick santorum and newt gingrich fighting it out for fourth place, each with about 10% of the vote right now. and rick perry well behind at just 1%. let's check in with our nbc news political director, chuck todd, who's been looking at the calculus being made by some of those non-winning candidates tonight who are nevertheless deciding to stay in the race. chuck? >> well, rachel, i've talked to both the huntsman and gingrich campaigns about this very issue, right? and the gingrich campaign, obviously, they made this decision. it's south carolina or bust for them. they got the big donor, the big donation, sheldon addison, the casino mogul out in vegas to give the big money to an alternative super pac to them to go after romney. they made this calculus. they didn't care where they finished here in new hampshire. but huntsman was interesting. and in talking with their strategist, they say this. getting the third place means maybe -- they think it's important for them to go to south carolina, because even if they only get 10%, if they can help deny romney victory in south carolina, it vetches the race, impose to florida, a plac maybe huntsman does a little bit better, but does the same thing. denies romney victories. the whole strategy now for the gingrich campaign, for the huntsman campaign, is actually the same. deny romney victories. and if they can do that, maybe they can stretch it out. maybe they find out romney might have more of a glass jaw than maybe he does. i think we're going to find out in the next ten days whether he does have a glass jaw or not. but that's the strategy. stay in the race. and in huntsman's case, he's not looking at winning any of these states. he's simply looking at denying romney victories. so he hopes to be pulling votes from romney's left, rachel. >> it's interesting. we're starting to see that from a lot of the different candidates right now, the idea is to stick around in case romney face-plants. stick around in case something happens to mitt romney or something is done to mitt romney that takes him out. still be in the race when that happens. >> they're all "break glass in case candidate implodes" candidates. and the little elephants break the glass, here i am, you know? and if you're huntsman, you're seeing everybody else has moved up and down and moved up and down. he's still waiting for his moment. so maybe the point is, if he stays in long enough, something happens. >> let me ask you one last question, chuck, you look at rick santorum, jon huntsman, newt gingrich, rick perry, who has not been a factor in new hampshire, but will be a factor in south carolina. all of these candidates who not only have their own campaign resources, but have access to quirky billionaires who may or may not be their dad, who may or may not want to give them money to carpet bomb in the next couple of states. is there any difference in strategy from any of those four toward mitt romney, or are they all on board with the mitt romney corporate raider attack that we've seen newt gingrich play up so much in the last couple of days? >> no, they actually have different strategies. santorum, you saw, he's not going to go there. he's not going to touch it. i think santorum's strategy is pretty clear. play up his cultural conservative credentials in south carolina, hope that the mud between gingrich and romney, that gets exchanged, creates a factor that we've seen a lot of times in multi-candidate fields, which is candidate "a" attacks candidate "b," candidate "b" attacks candidate "a," and candidate "c" ends up winning the primary or winning that election. so i think we'll see straightforward strategy that way. perry and gingrich are double-teaming that. and then you've got the romney/paul sort of non-aggression pact, if you will, and paul even defending romney against these charges. that's helpful to him at some point, because anytime you can have a surrogate push back rather than having to do it yourself, it's always better. but they all are in this sort of deny romney victory strategy. if they ever want to find their way back. and at some point, they're going to turn on each other. newt gingrich told me today, i said, when you do the simple math in south carolina, if you and santorum split conservatives, 50/50, romney wins with somewhere between 35 and 40%, and gingrich said to me, you know what, let's see what happens early next week. let's see how these ads hit and maybe conservatives will start consolidating around him. he thinks, of course, santorum is hoping it's the other way around. but at some point, you know, there's a big meeting this weekend of a lot of social conservatives, movement conservatives that don't want romney as the nominee, and their goal is to try to figure out if they can consolidate behind one of the two, gingrich or santorum. maybe that happens this weekend in favor of one over the other. >> and with mitt romney having now 1 -- won in iowa and new hampshire, anybody who really wants it to not be mitt romney, these are desperate times. and if there are desperate measures available, now's time to go for them. chuck todd, thank you for this. we're going to go to chris matthews in manchester, new hampshire. he's with howard fineman and others who have been reporting with various campaigns and their reactions to tonight's results. chris? >> great, rachel. you know, howard, it seems we've got three guys now running in this race that are behind and have to do something magical to pick up. let's start with the most fascinating -- gingrich. tonight, no attack in his speech tonight on the man he's been attacking, romney. what's that about? >> well, i think that's significant. partly because i know that some friends of his, former members of congress, have called him to cool it on the looting thing. they say, you're making

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