0 whirlwind of news out of egypt already in a state of tremendous tumult with hosni mubarak set to be released from prison ahead of a retrial, there are worries about further violence in a country that, of course, has seen recent crackdowns against pro-morsi rebels and awful reprisals against egyptian police and christian civilians in places of worship. joining me now is nbc news chief foreign correspondent richard engel. richard, what do we know? what can be confirmed about the awful, awful, awful images we are seeing out of syria today? >> reporter: we've spoken to medical personnel. we've spoken to syrian activists in these areas where the attacks allegedly took place. clearly something happened. they believe it was a chemical gas attack that around 2:30 in the morning there began a barrage of surface to surface rockets first firing into the eastern suburbs just outside of damascus. syria, but they seem quite -- they seem very difficult to fake. we've also shown them to independent experts, chemical weapons experts, who thought they were consistent with a nonconventional weapons attack. >> so what does this mean? the president has talked about a red line and has been careful in discussing a red line to talk about mass casualty events, to talk about systemic deployment. if we are seeing something like this, if it is confirmed, it seems to me is the most systemic mass attack, deployment of chemical weapons. what does that mean for the red line the president has noted? >> reporter: this would be a totally different scale of events. in the past we've talked about chemical weapons being used to kill one, two, five people in numerous attacks. that always struck observers as a bit strange, more of a terror tactic than a tactic of war. using a limited amount of chemical weapon to scare your in which saddam hussein used chemical agents against the kurds. >> exactly. now, you know, he's gaining in the battlefield he's gaining ground. >> assad? >> sorry, assad. and his allies in the region are helping him. iran, hezbollah, and he's looking at egypt and he's thinking, you know what, they toppled the president. we had islamists winning. it didn't succeed and now back to the old regime. even mubarak is coming by. >> you think assad is making the calculation he looks at the regional picture saying actually this arab spring, this wave of revolution, we're now seeing retrenchment, i can hold on to this. i can stick this out. >> exactly. also he sees confusion by the west. we weren't able to call a coup a real coup for days until now we're not even cutting the aid from the egyptians after they killed thousands of protesters. look, assad is the most machiavellian dictator in the region and he's looking around him and he's making a very hard calculation saying, okay, i tested the chemical weapons. nobody protested. now i'm testing it in a bigger scale. >> so let's say that is the case. let's say those initial reports which were very small scale and baffling in their deployment we now see something, again, if confirmed, a mass attack, a war crime. >> a war crime. what is the response? you and i have talked about the dangers and the rebels, the fractious situation on the ground there, about the al qaeda affiliate elements that are part of the rebel group the free syrian army, we talked about the possibility of blow back, the difficulty of control. so what does any kind of escalating u.s. intervention or accountability or punishment for crossing the red line look like? >> look, we have to think about it this way. what is the least worst option that we have today? to leave the situation like this, this is not an option. the real option today is really to push and not to leave before things are fixed, to push on the international community, convince the russians. the russians will not stand up to this. the israelis will not stand up to this. before we intervene, they may try to intervene themselves because this is, you know, threatening their areas, threatening the golan heights and other areas. and there's already communication between the rebels and the israelis. >> the thing i worry about the most is, is the idea that there is a sequence of testing here, about how far and what he can get away with and if this is allowed. at the same time i just -- it is an absolute no good options situation. >> no, look, if assad will leave, we know from now that this war will carry on for maybe -- for many years. let's put it this way. we know that there will be retaliation. there will be a failed state and there will be an islamist element within it, but we have to understand that there's no solution until the syrians, all of them, write a social contract where everybody is included, minorities especially, women, kurds, everybody inside. that has to be done now before we enter the region. >> we are very, very far from that. msnbc contributor rula jebreal. >> thank you for having me. republicans won't give up on trying to get rid of obama care.