debate in milwaukee. we're going to get the score cards. jonathan alter, what do you make of that first hour? >> it was much calmer, but they were living in cloud coocoo land. they're talking about trillions in tax cuts. they're talking about a hole in the deficit. it's not even trickle down economic, it's right wing coocoo economics. they're talk act economics that are out of touch, not only with political reality, but with what would happen with this country if their plans were enacted. and we would have massive deficits, as far as the eye could see. the moderators are trying to bring some of that sanity into the debate without much success. >> stuart stevens, your scorecard at this point? >> i think ted cruz is having a good night being ted cruz. he's someone who knows how to dedebate. he knows his market and is going after it. and i think john kasich is smart to go after donald trurp. i think people should do it more. i think donald trump, when you attack him, he looks small. and he should attack him for his smallness. >> he's going after him, as is jeb bush a lit bit, over this deporting of the mexican immigrants, sending 11 million back and how that's inhumane. but i've got to say, to that audience, this is not what they want to hear. i mean, am i -- tell us from the inside republican perspective how that's playing, let's say, outside of the theatre where they're doing this debate, because you're not going to get any cheers in that audience by going against trump on that immigrati immigration. >> that's one of the dangers of audiences in the debate. you can start playing to the crowd. whenever you do that, it's why the first hit of crack is free. it's addicting and it ear a terrible thing to let yourself fall into in a debate. listen, i think you've got to dance with the one that brung you. and if you're against this idea of deporting 11 million people, which every reasonable politician and person should be, and it's never going to happen i think you ought to go after it and point out why it's absurd. i mean, look, if that passes, we should all buy stock in bloomberg buses. because it's going to take a lot of buses to deport 11 million people. >> 100,000 bus, stuart. >> it's absurd. and if you really look at the data on this, nobody believes it's going to happen. i think when people say things they know aren't going to happen, i think you can get credit for calling them out on the absurdity of it. >> how do you see it after that first hour? >> well, i agree kind of with both assessments. you look at this and you say it's the aesop's fable, it's a little crazy. america is a land of immigrants. they get applause when they say we're going to send people home and rip families apart. while they claim to be family value people. they claim they want to help people because we need jobs in america and people are suffering, but then they say, well, god knows we can't raise minimum wage. some suggest we ought to lower it, for god's sake. if you wage minimum wage to $15, it's going to cost about 5 cents to double that on goods and services if it's passed entirely on to the consumer. 5 cents for a big mac. i don't know what a big mac costs. is it $5? i can afford $5.05. that's nothing to me, but to those people, $15,000 in their pocket, this is america. these guys are talking about the american dream, but apparently it's only for the richest of the rich. if you're poor, ben carson says just work harder. just work harder, you'll be fine. it's not about immigration in so many ways, lawrence. it's about pay people a wage that works. it will create jobs. those people will take that money, they'll go out and they'll buy big macs and shoes. and they'll get the economy moving again. but we don't care about what's strange in the first hour is it's just surreal. they talk about family values, they talk about, we're america, we've got to do -- and everything they spew seems to be anti-american. where did this country come from? >> ben carson twice mentioned 1913. that's when the federal reserve was created and the federal income tax was put in. he wants to turn the clock back to pre1913. not just pre-new deal, but ppr pre federal income tax. it's really kind of crazy we call this a conservative political party. there's nothing conservative about it. big c conservative, small c con receiver tif, they shouldn't be called conservatives anymore. they are radicals who want radical change in the american system. i wish the press and public would see this more for what it is. >> jeb bush to my money had his first solid round in any of the debates so far. his first answer coming out of the gate, clearly was prepared. and i mean that in a positive way. he had obviously done some real prep. he turned it into an economic attack on both president obama and hillary clinton. for the first time he sounded like he was ready to play this game. >> i feel like jeb bush's biggest mistake is trying to do too much. he ought to be ability getting on base. if he tries too hard, it would seem disingenuous. there's one thing that's important. 28% of the country thinks we're going in the right direction. they're operating on a wrong track environment. there's an argument that's going to be how to decide an election. are we going to be one in which a third term of barack obama can be successfully argued a year from now or can we not? we don't know the answer to that, but these guys are definitely digging into the wrong track argument. >> you mentioned the minimum wage, it was a real softball question at a republican debate. would you raise the minimum wage, they all said no. including ben carson. let's listen to what ben carson said about the minimum wage just a few months ago. >> what about minimum wage? >> i think it probably should be higher. >> so steve, exact opposite answer tonight. a few months ago he thinks the minimum wage should be higher. tonight, ben carson goes with the chorus, absolutely no increase in the minimum wage. >> yeah, it is kind of the weather vain team out there. i'm going to say what i think is going to give me votes. why do we think we have two outsiders, trump and carson, that are leading the fold. it's not so much what they've said. it's that people are saying enough already. we're hurting out here. college tuition is up 1,800% since 1978. 1,800%. only 1 out of 4, lawrence, 1 out of 4 high school graduates in america is headed now to graduate from college. you can not be a great nation anymore if 3 out of 4 of your young people only have a high school degree. that's what people worry about. they do worry about jobs. they do worry about wages. they do worry about health care. these guys stand up there and say, well, people aren't better under obamacare. ask the 17 million people who got healthcare under obamacare what they think. the arrogance of these governors and these folks that live high and somehow sit out will and say well, i'm fighting for the poor person, but i don't want you to have health care. god knows we're not going to wage your wages. i'm fighting to get you more jobs, but just get another one, get two or three. that's the problem. you look at these guys and it really is a weather vain. they say what they think the voters want to hear, while they claim they're patriotic and fighting for americans. they're only fighting for a sliver of americans. that's been the problem. every american knows it out there. that's why they're upset and looking for an outsider. i think if i were these guy, i would be very careful. say what you want in a primary, if you get in a general election, these words are go i think to come back to haunt you. and they get the flip flop, these guys are going to have to live with what they do in these primaries. it's not going to serve them well. >> it's interesting we have stuart stevens on tonight, chief strategist for mitt romney. i'm interested in what stuart thinks of this immigration argument. kasich and bush said you can't deport 11 million people. >> they tried to say the reasonable thing to an unreasonable audience. >> that makes it harder for them to win the nomination, but easier for them to win the white house. do you agree with that stuart? your guy got 28% of the the latino vote. you can't get elected president with 2% of the latino vote. and donald trump was nominated, he would get less than 10% la n latino vote and is unelectable. don't they have to take on the trump orthodoxy in order to have any chance of actually winning the presidency? >> i think b there's variations here. i think you have to break down the argument. what no one believes is that we're going to deport 11 million people. so the idea of being against something that no one believes is actually pretty easy. and you ought to take that battle and you ought to point it out as absurd, because it reflects a sort of illegitimacy of thought that someone is presenting, as you say, to appeal to an audience. now, the idea that you're going to have limits on illegal immigration, that resonates with people. and that makes sense. there's two different arguments. >> but how do you get past the 29% of the latino vote that your guy got the last time? and if you can't, can you be elected president of the united states? >> listen, the great problem with republicans is with non-white voters. you've got to expand that. immigration is one. we'll talk about it more. >> we're going to take a quick break here. coming up in tonight's "last word" the one brave candidate who has said the right thing about god and politics. s a firs. at&t and directv are now one. so get ready to laugh here and cry here. scream over here and freak out over there! and maybe go back to laughing here. and crying there. try not to laugh here though, it's rude. and maybe don't cry here, people will get the wrong idea. introducing the all in one plan. only from directv and at&t. hey! how are you?g? where are we watching the game? you'll see. i think my boys have a shot this year. yeah, especially with this new offense we're running... i mean, our running back is a beast. once he hits the hole and breaks through the secondary, oh he's gone. and our linebackers and dbs dish out punishment, and never quit. ♪ you didn't expect this did you? no i didn't. the nissan altima. there's a fun side to every drive. nissan. innovation that excites. it took joel silverman years to become a master dog trainer. but only a few commands to master depositing checks at chase atms. technology designed for you. so you can easily master the way you bank. >> breaking news from missouri tonight. police at university of missouri have increased security after a threat was called in. one day after the university system president resigned in the midst of protests, that threat comes the same day that the university system appointed an interim vice chancellor for inclusion, diversity and equity. we're joined by phone from columbia, missouri. what's the situation there tonight? >> reporter: well, lawrence, the threat was called into the black culture center on campus. there was a meeting between the missouri legislative black caucus and a group of concerned students. it was a member of the caucus who actually took that phone call where the threat was called in. university police locked down the building. they did a sweep of the building. there was nothing found and there have been no arrests right now. there's also been some blasts on social media, specifically the an anonymous app. one of the threats says that some of you will all right, don't come to school tomorrow. university security says they are aware of these social media threats. they say they are increasing security to the campus. now, security already very tight. there's been a number of sit-ins and demonstrations on campus as well as increased media presence the last two days. ever since the football team announced they would not practice or play until the then university system president stepped down following what some described as an inadequate response to racial incidents on campus. yesterday, the president did step down, followed by the chancellor. the athletes resumed their practices. they were at one of that you are meetings tonight when that threat was called in. >> sarah dallof, thank you very much for joining us. up next, hillary clinton versus marco rubio. take the zantac it challenge! pill works fast? 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(announcer vo) it's what makes a subaru, a subaru. and sleep deprived. bring us those who want to feel well rested. aleve pm. the only one to combine a sleep aid... plus the 12 hour pain relieving strength of aleve. be a morning person again with aleve pm. >> john jordan, the owner of jordan winery, a republican donor, is now formally backing florida senator marco rubio, with a super pac named baby got pac. >> a world gone out of control and getting worse. a shaky economy leaves millions behind. while washington, d.c. and wall street are doing just fine. and they wonder why they're angry. so we started to make this ad, we had to decide which conservative candidate for president to support. ted cruz, the bold and brilliant conservative mind? donald trump, a leader in business and media? ben carson, world renounced neurosurgeon and faithful conservative? it's a tough choice. so you know who we asked, hillary clinton and the democrats. for once, they told the truth. they admitted there's one candidate who scares hillary clinton. and that's senator marco rubio. democrats say he's the one they don't want to face. bill clinton even calls him the biggest threat. when the media and the democrats tell republicans who they're afraid to run against, that tells us all we need to go. baby got pac is responsible for the content of this message. >> jonathan alter, i it looks like rubio wants to go against hillary. yeah, it's interesting because the money is moving to rubio for this reasons that the super ac indicated the big money on wall street and elsewhere believes he has the best shot at beating hillary clinton. every fox news few viewer is an armchair pundit. that message goes down to the voters to some exat the present time, primary voters and that rubio gets some support for that reason. but remember, trump and carson are between 16 and 1 points ahead right now. this is not a close race in the polls. >> what about that, hillary clinton and the democrats most fear marco rubio among all those candidates? >> i'm not certain of that. there's been some e-mail traffic. my guess is they're not real certain what's going to happen. not many of us are would say the trump balloon and carson balloon would last. everyone thought it would float away. it's not done that. the gap is so large right now, rubio has a long way to go. i'm just not sure that will happen. i think the voters on the republican side are so disillusioned with kind of the mainstream candidates, they're so uncertain about the outsider candidates. they kind of like carson, h ehas his troubles. they're a little afraid of trump. it's kind of natural they would gravitate to others in the field. i think the real test will be how marco rubio responds. personally i wonder if he's ready, but we'll find out. i don't think, though, that when the spotlight comes on him, there's a part of me that says he has to be ready to take that gaunt let and run with it. he's got to have the resources. as jonathan pointed out, he's getting more money. but that vote is so spread out, where is h egoing to get all his votes? that would be my concern if i'm sitting in marco rubio's camp. >> he certainly had a sharp debate performance in the first hour. but you have long predicted the trump bubble will burst and donald trump won't make it very far into the actual casting of votes once we get into next year and the primaries. is marco rubio currently positioned to move into the gap that you predict donald trump will eventually open up. >> i'm sticking with that trump prediction until it's not true. i just look at the state. it's all about who's going to win the first four states. i don't see a scenario where you can lose the first four and come back. it's never happened. if you're in second and third place in florida and you lose the first four, i don't see why that advances you to first. who's going to win iowa and new hampshire and south carolina? who's going to win nevada? i really think that's what really matters here. these national polls are interesting. i pick them apart by everybody. but as far as the people that are going to vote, it tells you about who's going to win the louisiana governor's race by polling in mississippi, which doesn't tell you very much. >> maybe marco rubio in florida, something like that. and maybe it will sake you six or eight before you get to the candidates you're really dealing with. >> yeah. so karl rove says that there could be what is every reporter's dream, a brokered convention. because the primaries up until march 15 are all proportional voting. they're not winner take all. so they could split the vote and then you could get into a situation where something like the trump/cruz alliance, they have a detente. they haven't been criticizing each other at all. that could become significant. if if cruz is leading and trump wants to leave without being totally humiliated, heck give his support to cruz or conceivably vice versa. and also of these things could come into a play that could be absolutely fascinating for all of us watching. not very helpful to the republican party. >> i think when candidates lose, they lose their voters. they end up not having anything to trade. won each of those four primaries. particularly if those winners would not do well in a general el'eggs. if trump won, say, new hampshire, which i think stayed in a more likely bet than iowa, carson won iowa. cruz won south carolina, rand paul won nevada. then i think we would be off to the if you thinker games and i think theoretically, a good candidate could emerge post. but i don't think that's gong to happen. >> wouldn't it be fun -- >> can i jump in? lawrence? i generally agree with what stu is saying. i think iowa and new hampshire really do winnow and if you don't come in first or second or you ear marginalized there, it's really going to be difficult to come back. that's where if marco rubio doesn't come in first or second, he may never get to florida. rudy giuliani said i'm going to plant my flag in florida and never quite got there. i really do think the power of this co-elessing of the field, people want to winnow this thing down. voters do, reporters do. you want to kwom in first or second or come in close enough to be credible in new hampshire. i don't think you necessarily get a door prize to go to south carolina. >> i don't agree with that. what's different this time is the super pacs. it used to be the only reason people dropped out is they didn't have any money left. now a lot of them are going to have a super pac money. now they can go on for another few weeks and do well in the primarie primaries, try their luck again, maybe hope for a change with the debate. i'm not sure that you're going to see all these guys dropping out early. >> i'm not sure either. but i really do think, though, the free media that you get, the earned media that's worth millions of dollars, you win iowa and new hampshire, you lead the news, the super pac better have a ton of money. remember now, the super pac is supporting a loser, it's harder to run the ad that says steve lost the first three primary, but by god, let's stick with him. i just think history