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they received for pakistan. the journal says if the cia was held to that standard as an imminent threat to the u.s. they may not have carried out the strike that killed two hostages. defenders of the program say the exemption was granted because we had troops in neighboring afghanistan. that rule still requires -- the rules still require a near certainty that that civilians were hurt. they didn't change that. all right matt. i'm steeling myself you you cia basher, you. what do you think? >> do you think the near certainty standard will ever not be big enough to drive an entire fleet of trucks through? like in terms of a loophole? in terms of what people -- >> oh i turned around to make me answer the question. >> you will never get the risk down to zero. >> you will get to a certain point where it is risk versus
didn't have eyes to know who was in that building -- >> yes. >> should they have considered the possibility that an american was there? >> sure. i think it gets to the question. the president said we're going to look at these standards. i do believe this operation was done by the book. the question is do you change the book based on where you are? if you're doing engagements in pakistan and know that someone like warren and potentially others are held hostage there, does it change your standard near certainty standard? how do you define that? what assets do you want confirmation of? how long do you do the surveillance. the theory they'll take people outside every once in a while. depending on how much surveillance with did, the possibilities of catching hostages inside. it raises unfortunate legitimate questions. >> the "new york times" lead on this page one was when they took
katz, former cia operations officer. and josh, let's start with this -- a high-level congressional source confirmed to nbc news that had operation met near certainty standard. we kept hearing that in josh earnest's white house briefing. we know there are two crucial standards in there, and one was not met. break that down for us and what it means. >> i think the bottom line sheer what led to this unfortunate accident and tragedy is a policy issue. it is not a review of drone operations. this is a policy issue in which we are not collecting intelligence in the manner that we should. we're limiting ourselves and sort of putting ourselves in a box here. an instance like this is where human intelligence would have been key in helping and preventing this tragedy. >> how would that work given that the surveillance included 100 hours of surveillance before
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