they may not even have to go that far. i think the lesson is that you can terrorize people into not doing anything just by having a law and having the threat out there that somebody could be criminally prosecuted for doing something. the comstock act, this is not a hypothetical. there are lots of folks in right-wing circles writing about and talking about this. lisa rubin, thank you. thank you. that is all in on this thursday night. alex wagner starts now. good evening. there are women already terrified making choices about bodily economy. certainly. fear at all levels of american society. thank you, my friend. today donald trump made his first visit to capitol hill. the first time since his followers ransacked the capital on january 6. to understand why trump chose to come back now after more than three years away, you don t have to look as far back as the insurrection. you just have to remember what trump has been asking congress to do since his criminal conviction two weeks ago. the day after trump was convicted of 34 felony counts in his new york hush money case, eight republican senators vowed to oppose all biden nominees and all democratic legislation as retribution. today six republican senators led by j.d. vance put the oppose all biden nominees part of that into writing. senators explained they would block nominees including anyone who suggested the trump prosecutions were reasonable. anyone who opposed trump s guilt. anyone who supported organizations that celebrated the indictment of donald trump and anyone who supported alvin bragg or supported lawfare or censorship in other ways. which is just big enough to include basically anyone president biden nominated. these republican senators say their blockade will last until election day and in practical terms that means the u.s. government will not be able to appoint representatives to things like the u.n. general assembly or the world health organization or even the not particularly political seeming places like the civil aviation organization and public buildings reform board. what exactly do those organizations have to do with prosecuting donald trump? nothing. this is not about policy, it is about retribution. you might remember last year senator tommy tuberville pulled a similar stunt. tuberville became the first senator in history to do a long- term blockade of u.s. military appointments. senator tuberville kept more than 400 qualified servicemembers, 400, from being appointed or promoted for 10 months. all because of a department of defense policy that had nothing to do with those servicemembers. the blockade was such a blatant misuse of power. it was not just democrats who were appalled. there were some of his fellow republican senators no matter if you believe it or not senator tuberville, this is doing great damage to our military. this power is extraordinary that we are given as individual senators, but it is incumbent to use it in a reasonable way. everybody uses holds. the key is you put a hold on someone who typically has some kind of control over the issue you are trying to fix. there is not one senator in here who could not find a reason to object to an administration policy. in the military. none of us. we could all find something. i hope we don t do this routine. i just hope we don t do this routinely. does two times count as a routine? if so this makes it a routine and this time it is not even about the policy disagreement, however tangential. it is so republicans can protest donald trump being found guilty by a jury of his peers. today we also saw 29 republican senators sign onto this letter disparaging the rule of law and saying trump s conviction was nothing short of the evisceration of the american judicial process. so it is safe to say that from now to november the u.s. senate is effectively going to be at a standstill and unable to govern, not because of policy disagreements, but so republicans can perform an act of retribution on donald trump s behalf. as for the house where republicans hold a majority, well, things are looking worse. politico is out with new reporting saying that in the days after trump s conviction trump made a f bomb filled call to speaker johnson. trump s message, we have to overturn this. now a few weeks after that call it looks like speaker johnson s mission is not just to grind the government to a halt like his republican colleagues in the senate. it is to use the power of the government to make trump s criminal concerns go away. by way of an example yesterday, house republican leaders spent the day whipping votes for a bill that would allow presidents charged at the state level to move those cases to federal court. let me check my notes. how many presidents have been criminally charged at the state level again? oh, only one. what an interesting use of congressional power. politico also reports the speaker johnson is in talks with jim jordan about using the appropriations process to target special counsel jack smith and de-fund his investigation. neither of those have the votes to pass yet, but that is the kind of stuff that republicans in congress are working on right now, which helps put into context why donald trump went back to capitol hill today. it was not for any legitimate legislative concern. it was for what republican congressman matt gaetz called a pep rally for president trump. a pep rally complete with an early birthday party for donald trump himself. 11 something to do with this room. joining me now is the senior editor at slate two covers the courts and philip, columnist for the washington post. the birthday cake, pardon the culinary metaphor, but it really is the icing on the cake of fealty if that is the metaphor. are you surprised that the pledges of allegiance as they are are so explicit, so undisguised on capitol hill? i am not surprised. this is something we have seen for years. watching that package, the thing that struck me as republicans are a little bit like parents on an airplane with a crying child. they have this source of frustration and everyone is sick of it. they are stuck and have got to figure out how to calm this kid down. the kid is donald trump and he is mad about being convicted. don t worry, i will talk to the supreme court. they are doing everything to keep him happy, keep him quiet, keep him on their side and most importantly keep him from lashing out against them. that is what we see with this. they are all trying to keep him happy, keep him quiet and get through this. they are terrified of him and they adore him. he is the center of their universe and they can t control him at all. i do wonder as you see the machinations of the conference and republicans in the senate openly trying to undermine the rule of law, does it not throughout the notion of the justice system in america as we watch the legislative branch to this work? i think that is a feature, not a bug. i think we are seeing a systematic attack on the rule of law. i think even if we had not had the conviction in the new york trial, we have seen a long- standing set of attacks on judges, on juries, on, you know, prosecutors. on witnesses. i think the whole zeitgeist is, and it is not a surprise. this is a classic authoritarian play. just to foment doubt in institutions. if you foment enough doubt people start looking longingly at the strongman who will save them when institutions crumble. so no part of this is new or unfamiliar. i think what is interesting is seeing a lot of republicans who might have, at one point felt about donald trump, but stood fast on the principle that judges and juries and statutes and the concentration actually enforce some meaning. the degree to which they abandoned that and see no value in that i think is the part that is new and chilling. to that point, the idea that they will withhold these nominations across the government, right? the tuberville blockade wasn t great politics and yet they survived it and they are replicating it. on a different level it is not the u.s. military and certainly the w.h.o. and u.n. are not favorites of the republican party, but nevertheless they are stymieing the work and they think it is good politics? they do think it is good politics from the standpoint that the political focus at this point is retribution against joe biden and that is what they are focused on. mitch mcconnell doesn t wake up in the morning and say that is what he wants to do, but he understands. it is also mitch mcconnell in 2016, holding a supreme court seat. we have also seen this pattern in the past and it is very anti- institutional, but fundamentally about sending a message to the american public that d.c. does not do what it is supposed to do and we need to get trump in there. to make us do our work again. right. that is the singular focus from now to election day. i do think, you know, republicans are betting that the electorate won t punish them for this and that the broader american electorate is not tuned into this. this is part of the swamp, part of the dysfunction of the capital and you make an important point in one of your pieces this week about normalcy bias. americans have a normalcy bias. it leads them to believe everyone who tells them that everything is awesome. even as that system is hanging together by way of dental floss. we are talking about a system of justice, but i think it has extended to the dysfunctional government. because it still exists, because there is still a congress that occasionally passes laws, people can deride functionality, but they don t think democracy is in danger of falling apart in the same way they hold trumps criminal conviction as an example. a jury of peers found him guilty. it all works. things are not normal right now. things are very abnormal and i wonder if you can talk a little bit more about your level of panic in this moment. i try not to use the word panic because it makes my parents super scared, but i guess i would say think about where we were in 2016. what was deemed disqualifying in that race and think about the fact that in the intervening time we have civil jury s finding trump guilty of being a sexual abuser. we have 34 felony convictions. we have january 6. we have donald trump, who ran in 2016. we forget in the fog of memory, but as a family man, as a businessman who was going to drain the swamp. now just running as a straight up autocrat. he is running under the banner of violence, of suppression of rights, of suppression of speech. of deporting immigrants. this is really scary, what has happened, and it seems people are almost less dialed up now than they were in 2016 when they were like that access hollywood tape sounds bad. now every single day you get this drumbeat of what i think is really distressing. you know, saying kind of the quiet part loud about wanting to create an authoritarian state and i think we normalized it because we have to get to cvs to fill our prescriptions and we are raising our kids and we are tired. i think this allows us to wait until some adult says break the glass. i think what we have metabolized is normal is deeply frightening. you write about the way in which republicans were very incensed about the trump conviction. democrats were not about hunter biden s conviction and as a result republicans are up in arms and democrats are largely accepting of the hunter biden conviction. i find a number that is particularly staggering around all of this, is the number of people who acknowledge that the donald trump conviction is the right call. it is not moving them at all in their support for trump. this is new monmouth pulling out today. do you agree or disagree with the verdict finding trump guilty? 47% agree. 34% disagree. then you look at the numbers of people who are definitely or probably supporting each candidate. biden, 43. trump, 44. numbers are not moving even in the face of saying this conviction was the right thing. what does this tell you? it tells me two things. first we should expect this from the standpoint that even before the verdict a fifth of trump supporters said they thought he already committed a crime. we will vote for him anyway. the second thing is that donald trump did an effective job of inoculating his base against this. it is not just last year. it is in 2016. as soon as the russian investigation came to public consciousness he started saying it is a hoax and that pattern is continuing. it really helped his base. once they bought in on that that was it. this indictment, they look at it and they are like, that is exactly what he said. at some point rational people step back and are like it is hard to believe that they came up with all of these different crimes. they ve been busy. they are like they are allowed to get him. calling it an inoculation is right. ironic. because we had breaking news in the vein of the abnormal tonight, i want to get your thoughts. clarence thomas, who is a key part of the system of justice and rule of law, found to have three additional undisclosed trips that he took from his billionaire a friend harlan crow. these were trips he did not disclose. this is on top of the hundreds of thousands if not millions of gifts he has taken thus far and only lately come clean about. what does this tell you about the danger we are in in terms of the high court and the lesson it sends to lower courts? i think i would put this under the bucket that philip has been talking about. law is for suckers. you may have disclosure statutes. you may have ethics rules. you may have all sorts of obligations. this is not a surprise. and then coming out in drips. last week we had a partial disclosure of some of the trips that were paid for. but not all of them and here are three more trips that were never disclosed. so i think this is kind of part of the larger trump theory which is that we have leaders who do not have to answer to the rule of law and when the little guy fails to get his death penalty paperwork right, he goes to the death chamber. when clarence thomas again and again, time after time after time, does not file disclosures or amends disclosures partially, that s okay because the law is for the little guy. i find it part of this sort of very systemic devaluation of the rules that everyone is supposed to abide by and it is a very systemic effort i think to normalize the notion that some people are too cool and important to follow the rules. everyone is supposed to abide by the law. thank you both for your time and thoughts tonight. really appreciate it. we have much more ahead tonight. do you have any summer travel plans? today former president donald trump singled out one, quote, horrible american city he might recommend skipping. first the supreme court upheld access to the drug used in most abortions for now, but it does not mean the fight is over by a long shot. we will talk with nancy from the center for reproductive rights, next. rights, next. me platinum plus gives you the highest standard of clean, even in your machine. clean enough for you? yeah! scrape. load. done. cascade platinum plus. sandals jamaica sale is now on! with rates from $199 per person per night. visit sandals.com or call 1-800-sandals here s to getting better with age. here s to beating these two every thursday. help fuel today with boost high protein, complete nutrition you need. .without the stuff you don t. so, here s to now. boost. her uncle s unhappy. i m sensing an underlying issue.. it s t-mobile. it started when we tried to get him under a new plan. but they they unexpectedly unraveled their “price lock” guarantee. which has made him, a bit. unruly. you called yourself the “un-carrier”. you sing about “price lock” on those commercials. “the price lock, the price lock.” so, if you could change the price, change the name! it s not a lock, i know a lock. so how can we undo the damage? we could all unsubscribe and switch to xfinity. their connection is unreal. and we could all un-experience this whole session. okay, that s uncalled for. in a unanimous decision today, the united states supreme court maintained access to the primary pill used in most abortions, mifepristone. the court rejected a bid to restrict access to that drug on procedural grounds. justice kavanaugh claimed the plaintiffs, a collection of antiabortion doctors and dentists and unlicensed retirees calling themselves the alliance for hippocratic medicine, justice kavanaugh said they had no legal standing to challenge the drug s approval. this case is dead, but the group of doctors say they are not done. the court said the clients don t have standing in this case. we are grateful the case will continue with three states working to hold the fda accountable for its reckless actions. today republican attorney generals in missouri, idaho and kansas are continuing to challenge access to mifepristone using the same legal argument in the case the court rejected today. this time they are framing access as an infringement on states rights. even if this challenge fails in federal court, there are still restrictions at the state level. last month in louisiana where abortion is already banned, it became the first state to classify both drugs used for medication abortion as controlled, date dangerous substances. effectively shutting down access to these pills through the mail. joining me now is nancy northup, president for the center for reproductive rights. i would first like your general reaction. was it one of optimism, anxiety, pessimism? how did you see it? well, it was huge relief because if the supreme court had upheld the ruling from the fifth circuit, then availability of medication abortion by telemedicine, receiving it by mail, things that made it much easier for people to get access to medication abortion if they do not live near a clinic, if they do not take time off, could have been taken away. so relief, but frankly also anger because we should not have been here to begin with. you can tell that nine of these justices agreed with each other. this case had no merit in the law and no merit in fact. so while i am breathing a sigh of relief today, i am really concerned. we know and you just showed us, you just heard, the campaign against medication abortion by those who are opposed to abortion is far from over. yeah and it seems very clear that the adf, the legal organization that offended these doctors, is out there, ready for the next wave of this which involves the states. the attorney general of kansas said today that states have the standings that the doctors in this case did not. how concerned are you about that legal theory? well i am concerned about it because obviously we have lower court justice who even agreed to this case that the supreme court said had no merit and threw it out. but it does not have merit. you can t go into court because you disagree with the ruling based on science by the fda. let s be clear. why are they going after medication abortion? because it is the method of choice by almost two thirds of women who have abortion in the united states today, choosing medication abortion. they want to cut that off. they want to cut it off in states where abortion is illegal, in states like illinois and new york and california and beyond. we need to be concerned because trying to keep coming in with the junk science as they did in this case and really baseless claims, they will keep on going. they can t ban medication abortion, which obviously is the end goal. there is a non-core strategy which is for states to independently take it upon themselves as louisiana did to say this should be a controlled substance. we are not going to use a here. is that the most pernicious strategy? is that the one you are most concerned about or do you think the whole ballgame of banning it nationally is where they will focus their firepower? they are going to do both and let s also remember that abortion is already banned in louisiana. so where we are today is the same status quo which is unacceptable and harmful. 14 states have banned abortion with really severe criminal penalties and for people in those states, you know, that status quo is completely unacceptable. in the meantime, nancy, as this is debated in the courts and so forth, there is a reality for people seeking bodily autonomy and healthcare across this country. the new york times has a staggering map of the number of people traveling across state lines to seek abortion care. 171,000 people traveled for abortions last year, which was more than double the amount in 2019. what is the picture you can paint for us about the reality of abortion care and reproductive health care in the united states right now? it is completely unacceptable that in 2024, four people in 14 states, that they have to travel out of state to get care they should be able to get in- state. we were in congress yesterday. there was a hearing in the subcommittee of the judiciary on of course travel out of state and one of our clients in texas talked about how because she was denied a medically necessary abortion in texas, what would have taken 15 minutes and turned around her health in 15 minutes, she had to spend three days and thousands of dollars going to the state of colorado. that is the reality for so many women and not everybody can leave their state. they don t have the means or the child care or the time off from work. it is really a healthcare crisis happening in the country right now. a completely self afflicted crisis. nancy northup from the center of reproductive rights, it is great to have your perspective. thanks for your time tonight. thank you. survivors of the sandy hook massacre reached a major milestone this weekend tomorrow could bring another measure of justice. first, donald trump s new election strategy to compete against joe biden and the rustbelt. insult the wisconsin city hosting the republican national convention. we have more on that, coming up next. we re trying to save the planet with nuggets. because we need the planet. and we also need nuggets. impossible. we re solving the meat problem with more meat. slowing my cancer from growing and living longer are two things i want from my metastatic breast cancer treatment. and with kisqali, i can have both. kisqali is a pill that when taken with an aromatase inhibitor helps delay cancer from growing and has been proven to help people live significantly longer across three separate clinical trials. so, i have the confidence to live my life. kisqali can cause lung problems or an abnormal heartbeat, which can lead to death. it can cause serious skin reactions, liver problems, and low white blood cell counts that may result in severe infections. avoid grapefruit during treatment. tell your doctor right away if you have new or worsening symptoms, including breathing problems, cough, chest pain, a change in your heartbeat, dizziness, yellowing of the skin or eyes, dark urine, tiredness, loss of appetite, abdomen pain, bleeding, bruising, fever, chills, or other symptoms of an infection, a severe or worsening rash, are or plan to become pregnant, or breastfeeding. long live life and long live you. ask your doctor about kisqali today. they say we should stop eating so much meat. and long live you. so we made meat out of plants. because we aren t quitters. impossible. we re solving the meat problem with more meat. are your gutters clogged? cleaning them can be dangerous, mucky, yuck. get leaffilter. it s as easy as one, two, three. call or click today. get your free gutter inspection on your schedule and get leaffilter installed in as little as a few hours. you ll never have to clean out your gutters again, guaranteed. get leaf filter today. call 833 leaffilter or go to leaffilter.com as easy as 1, 2, 3 donald trump wants to talk about things that he thinks are horrible, but all of us lived through his presidency, so right back at you, buddy. to insult the state hosting your convention is kind of bizarre. kind of unhinged in a way. that was mayor johnson responding to donald trump s comments made reportedly behind closed doors where trump called the city of milwaukee horrible. milwaukee of course is the city where in a little over a month donald trump will officially become the republican presidential nominee at the rnc. meanwhile first lady joe biden was in green bay today kicking off a healthcare initiative. nbc news found since the launch of the reelection campaign in the fall, the team has made 10 trips to wisconsin and pennsylvania. in addition to a dozen visits to the state of michigan. there is a logic to this. nbc news notes that biden s most likely path to victory lies in pennsylvania, michigan, wisconsin, and a single electoral vote from an omaha base to district. joining me now is founder and executive director of a more perfect union and manager of bernie sanders campaign. thank you for being here. obviously this white house is thinking about all 50 states, but the campaign is increasingly looking at a specific reality for biden s reelection. as onlookers to all of this, should we be looking at those three states as the prism through which we understand everything else joe biden does from now to november? it is not the end-all, be- all, but it is critical to maintain the presidency. when you look at wisconsin, i appreciate donald trump trying to dig a hole and keep digging, but you and i know what he is trying to do which is to set up a rural and urban divide. that is a state that he won in 2016. flashforward and biden wins with 20,000 votes. what happened in those four years? 300,000 more people voted in the state of wisconsin and that help to deliver a margin for biden. for those playing along at home, what are you expecting in 2024 and if it is closer to 2020, biden is in a great place. closer to 2016 and trump is in a better place. it is generating enthusiasm for the states to win. what you think about his actions and priorities in terms of what he talks about tailored to those states? what effect do you think that will have on the man in the coming months? will we see a focus on certain issues over others? geography matters. if you think of michigan, wisconsin, pennsylvania, what defines them? these are states that you know well that are factory towns that of lost jobs. due to manufacturing that has moved away from the united states. these are towns that are proud and built trades and apprenticeships. cars and parts supplies and they made crayons and all kinds of things. all kinds of stuff that we like and we saw those jobs move abroad. here comes joe biden saying i ve got a different plan. i ve got a plot that says we will make it in america. we will invest in industrial policymaking to bring jobs back. the priority is not just getting it cheap, to get equality and good and made in the united states. in 2016 and 2000 17 2017, everything is going terribly. here is joe biden doing it and now the politics as to translate in the states where we make that choice. you can see the way donald trump is campaigning. he does not have the same ability to go to these towns and argue that somehow he will do something to rebuild these areas when joe biden has come along to start to do it. the goal is to educate people about the fact that this choice has been made and do we stay on the track that joe biden is offering? do you feel there is tension within some of the states and i will pick pennsylvania because you have a more urban and suburban electorate clustered on philadelphia that he has to keep on his ledger and perhaps even expand his support and he also has allegheny county and the rustbelt part of the state which is much more of the scranton joe persona. is that a delicate balance? those are very different voters, different levels of income, different levels of information and education. how do you see his ability to strike a balance between the two? i tend to believe, alex, that i think joe biden does it well. the persuasion audience, the people who have not yet made up their mind about either candidate, the ones who are concerned about joe biden here and maybe donald trump there, those are working-class people who are often defined by not having a college degree, holding down a job, making under $100,000 a year. that to me is where you have to be laser focused and to my mind the argument they have not heard and need to hear over the next few months as you have a billionaire and ceo class. we are speaking on a day when donald trump went to the business roundtable to tell them you will get tax cuts for the rich. i will come back and you will be so happy. they have to know that that is the choice. as you mentioned, scranton joe, who has been taking on a billionaire class. trying to un-rigged the economy. fighting junk fees. going after uncompetitive mergers. things that speak to your pocketbook and trying to make your life better. here is a guy promising every day that i ve got the ceos backs. i will deliver tax cuts. that i think will be decisive and if you hone in on that working-class audience i do think they are the most important of all of the audiences we need to persuade. you are being generous and suggesting donald trump had a strategy by insulting the city of milwaukee, calling it horrible reportedly. mike johnson i think was on another cable news network saying he did not hear trump say that. i think other republicans don t think that is a great strategy, if it is a strategy. you know, is alex, i will say i blame myself for this. i listen to every donald trump speech and and everyone he tells you about the decline of american cities. he will go to san francisco, new york and wherever he is. he will pick a place nearby. everything is terrible. it is no slip of the tongue. this is intentional and by design. he is realizing the politics might not play exactly as i wanted it to because i will be going there shortly to court those votes. but this is what he believes. this is the american carnage theory. he believes in decline and everything is terrible. well, maybe he forgot that actually the rnc was in milwaukee, which is entirely possible. in the strange brain of donald trump. thank you as always for your wisdom and enthusiasm. it is great to see you. thank you, alex. coming up, today was the deadline for donald trump to file motions in his hush money trial ahead of sentencing next month. what did we hear from the former president and his legal team? 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or what if they were my significant other or what if they were able to walk the stage with me? who would i still be friends with now? seeing those children enter adulthood as a reminder of where this nation is 11 years later. according to the gun violence archive, america experienced more than 4800 past mass shootings in the past decade. in 2022 the nation mourned the death of another 19 elementary school students. another american community that will now be remembered as the site of a horrific tragedy. in the wake of that shooting president biden past the first gun reform in generations, but republicans have resisted the continued calls to ban the very assault rifles used at sandy hook and robb elementary. for years the family hook the sandy hook family were re- victimized by alex jones, who said that the shooting was faked. the families sued for defamation and eventually they won. tomorrow the judge overseeing that case is expected to move forward on liquidating alex joneses assets to help pay down the $1.5 billion jones owes those sandy hook families, just days after their children would have graduated high school. over the past few years there has been no shortage of discourse about how the next generation of kids will experience the transition into adulthood. could kids have a normal graduation during covid? 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[ bird squawks loudly ] to a pet shop. meg s moving company uses t-mobile. so she scaled down her fleet to save money. and don s paying so much for at&t, he s been waiting to update his equipment! there s a smarter way to save. comcast business mobile. you could save up to 70% on your wireless bill. so you don t have to compromise. powering smarter savings. powering possibilities. everybody say there s no crime. and there s no evidence whatsoever connecting trump with any criminal wrongdoing. there is an insufficient amount of evidence, no crime has been shown. bragg evidence is inadequate. there s no evidence. there is no evidence and there s no crime. there s no crime. throughout donald trump s criminal time in new york, the former president citing legal experts arguing there was no evidence to convict him. a jury that found him guilty of 34 felonies disagreed but under new york state law, trump has one more chance to prove there was no real evidence of a crime by arguing that the judge should set aside the jury s and today is the deadline for to file that motion. joining me now is kristi greenberg former prosecutor. by my clock which is fairly accurate, it s 9:55, there are two hours left for them to file this. this is their chance to you know, basically this is a last chance that they have to make their legal arguments before they proceed to an appeal so they will be filing a full some motion. what is that, like everything and the kitchen sink? we are going to see a lot of the same recycled arguments that we saw before, just that you heard, that there s no crime here, you can t use state laws to deal with federal election crimes, you can t, the judge is biased, the prosecutors are vindictive and said you re going to take a lot of those arguments and you re going to cite the trial record but the problem is the trial record doesn t support the argument. they will point to a number of places where the judge ruled against them or reprimanded them, but there are also plenty of examples where the judge ruled in their favor and actually kept out evidence like playing the access hollywood tape, like hearing about sexual allegations against trump, you know, after that access hollywood tape, none of that came into the trial and so, there are any number of evidentiary rulings, things that went in his favor so this judge was fair, i think their attempt to use the trial record to regurgitate a number of these arguments is really not going to work. so is there a downside to doing this, you know, do you further erode confidence in your argument, if anything you are adding to the record, right, this is a judge who has already told trump s lead counsel that he has lost all credibility with the court and that was before the trial even started. there was, we got new information today on the gag order, on monday i believe trump legal team introduced a new motion for the judge to lift his gag order. the reasoning in part being that trump would like to be able to speak freely presumably about the judges, witnesses and prosecution during the debate. you think judge merchan moves at all on this? i do, and he is moving quickly and more quickly it seems from the papers that trump filed, which tells me he actually is looking seriously at this. so i think, there are three categories as you mentioned, and there s one category where i think the judge is going to take a close look at it and that is the statement that trump can make about witnesses. now we have seen the appearances from stormy daniels, and michael cohen, where they are talking about the case, talking about the election, talking about trump going to jail post verdict. so i think there is some merit to trump s argument that he should get to respond to those kind of attacks and i think the prosecutor, they seem to just that they would make some amendments to allow for that. that s the one category where i can see some shift but trump s motion says really nothing about why he should get to now attack the jurors, after the verdict or why he should now get to attack the judge s daughter, so if anything, what we ve seen from nbc news reporting, brian riley talking about the threats on jurors, people trying to identify who they are, trying to threatened with violence and now we are leaning toward sentencing, if any of that is revealed and he keeps ramping up these attacks, i mean, that is only going to intensify, so the need to protect these jurors and protect the court staff and the court staff and their families has not gone away. this case is still pending. from the state of the presidential debate that a lot of people are tuning into, that is not keep anybody any safer. i appreciate it. that s our show for tonight, and a reminder, you can listen to every single episode of alex wagner tonight as a podcast for free, scan the qr code on your screen or search for alex wagner tonight wherever you got your pad cat podcast. nancy pelosi is going to be our guest tonight. i
the oklahoma justices ruling said the lingering impact of the massacre does not fall within the scope of our state public nuisance statute and they rule the state can continue to profit from tulsa massacre related tourism without compensating survivors. today s dismissal marks an end to the quest to see justice in their life time, something i got to speak to ms. fletcher about last year. what does justice look like to you? well, everything is beautiful and rebuilt and restored. you know, we think it is just time now that we have justice on all of that to where we can live all our life. and that is the reidout . all in with chris hayes starts now. tonight on all in day people are saying to themselves, where we better off four years ago or are we better off now and it wasn t even close. the greatest confidence game ever played. voters believe they were better off during trump s term than biden s. we are not better off today than we were four years ago. tonight, from crime to the economy and beyond how a political party led by a criminal is conning america. then you, you are working for a felon. a felon. the maga scandal machine and today s contempt about for the attorney general. and the senate push to do something about the ethics crisis in the supreme court. the highest court in the land should not and could not have the lowest ethical standards. when all in starts right now. good evening from new york, i am chris hayes. as we approach the first debate of a presidential election season, earlier than normal between joe biden and donald trump, it is clear that trump and the republican pitch to voters is fundamentally a con job. i mean that in the most literal sense. the term comes from so-called confidence man, fixtures in the late 18th and 19th century who swindled the victims with their confidence. right now that all s bravado is the defining feature of donald trump s attempt to win back the oval office. remember, this is the man who tried to destroy our constitutional republic live on national television and who utterly failed in overseeing the one national crisis he had to guide the nation through the pandemic. and yet trump and his surrogates are constantly telling voters to ask themselves a question, are you better off than you were four years ago? are you better off than you were four years ago? i don t think joe biden can run on the question of are you better off than you were four years ago. that is one question he is praying that he never hears. are you better under four years of joe biden were four years of donald trump. you know, people are saying to themselves are we better off four years ago or are we better off now and it wasn t even close. that, by the way, was all from the past week. we have been running a series on all in responding to that question because the events of four years ago were so shocking, unprecedented, and traumatic. i think a lot of people, i would say most people including myself, have blocked it out. again, i get it. i don t want to think about sitting inside trying to homeschool my kids or attending zuma for my dearly departed uncle or the images of packed hospitals and dying saying goodbye to their loved ones on ipads. of course the fact that most people don t want to think too much about 2020 is an enormous advantage for republicans and the trump campaign who are attempting to pull off this con job. their aim is to kind of magically replace her memory. to distract you from the fact that four years ago we were all living in the midst of disaster. tonight the country has reached another sobering milestone in the coronavirus pandemic, surpassing 2 million cases and this warning sign. hospitalizations are surging in many states. we will start our rallies back up now. we had a tremendous run at rallies. i don t think there has been an empty seat. i think one in texas. we are going to arizona. texas and arizona among nine states reporting a jump in hospitalizations, the best indicator of the viruses toll. we are really doing a financial comeback. the jobs numbers are fantastic. 1.5 million people filed front employment last week, almost 43 million since the pandemic began. i think the economy next year will be maybe the best it has ever been. we are already seeing the stock market going up, because you have a lot of smart people betting on exactly what i m saying. a selloff from wall street amid new concerns about the continuing spread of covid-19. the dow plunging more than 1800 points, its biggest drop in three months. a very important time in our country. a lot of things are happening and i think when it all ends up it is going to end up very good for everybody. there is growing concern tonight that restricting restrictions is causing an increase in covid-19 cases. all lives are precious, not just the people infected by covid, but also the people who are being driven to this because of the lockdown. what is happening in some of those places. that shut down. the poverty rate is going up. what are people going to do if they don t have jobs to go to to earn a living in order to take care of their families? that is the main reason. all of these scare tactics, they don t work this time around. they will not work. i should note one week after herman cain made that appearance on fox news, he attended donald trump s indoor rally. a big, indoor rally in the midst of covid in tulsa, oklahoma and by the end of june he was hospitalized with covid and died on july 30 at the age of 74. naturally every time we do one of these segments i find that looking back at four years ago brings a lot of emotion. most people divide recent history into the before times and the after times, myself included. a lot of us feel nostalgia for the before times and that is exactly what donald trump and his allies are using to build their lie about what really happened. to erase our real memories and implant false ones. that is their project and it has been unnervingly effective so far. four years ago in june, 2020 while we were living through the pandemic donald trump s approval rating was 42%. and when a new poll, 47% of americans say they approve of the job that trump did as president. it is not much, but those five points are basically the margin of the entire election and they are accomplishing that through flat out lies about what is actually happening. take a listen to missouri senator josh hawley doing this today. he s going to run on his record from four years ago versus biden right now. gas under president biden, up 55%. groceries, up 40%. wages down 3%. that is the campaign. that is before we get to crime, before we get to the border. sorry, josh hawley. wages are up. average hourly earnings are actually up 17% from may, 2020 two 2024 in nominal terms, like groceries and stuff. wages have also outpaced inflation for the past 13 months as the washington post pointed out today. crime is way down. look at what has happened with the homicide rate. in 2020 when donald trump was president, he ushered in under his presidency the largest ever one year jump, spiking 30%. by 2023 the homicide rate had tumbled 19% to 5.3 per 100,000 people. new data shows the rate continues to drop dramatically, down another 20 another 26% in the first quarter from the same time period last year. gas prices, are, i will admit, overall higher than they were in the summer of 2020. why were they low then? no one was traveling anywhere. okay? that is why there were cheap gas prices. refrigerator trucks full of cadavers, yeah, the gas prices were low. and they spiked up in the early part of the biden administration with the war in ukraine, but they have been trending in the right direction and continue to fall even as the summer travel season heats up. grocery prices are coming down. not just with inflation which cooled to 3.3% today, but retailers are actually slashing prices on thousands of islands. of items. again, they spiked during the pandemic like they did everywhere in the world, but they are on the right trajectory now and all of this is happening under the incumbent, joe biden. and we are not losing thousands of americans per day to a deadly pandemic. we do not live in a nation in the throes of constant disorder. this time four years ago we were living through the televised murder of george lloyd and the protestant police response that followed while then president trump called for sending in troops. across the country was started as peaceful gatherings protesting the death of george floyd evolved into destruction. from new york, where police and protesters squared off in the streets, to portland where the mayor issued a state of emergency and a city curfew. the nation erupted into scenes of chaos. violence. and widespread destruction into the early morning hours. in some of the nation s biggest cities, the night spiraled out of control early. we had to run rubber bullets. my cameraman has been hit. we have also seen tear gas being used. here we go again. this is exactly what it looks like. oh. whoa. can you hear us? are you okay? reporter: we are surrounded by the police and you saw the way that they dealt with my cameraman. we don t know who they are targeting at the moment. i said you have to dominate the streets. you can t let that happen and we are doing it with compassion, if you think about it. we are dominating the street with compassion. all that happens under the watch of president donald trump. we cannot say or hear that and if he returns to power i am telling you it is a safe bet that we will return to trauma and chaos. she is a democratic strategist who served as an advisor for the 2020 campaign. they both join me now. doug, i wanted to talk to you because in some ways history and recent history is part of what is being contested in this campaign. the legacy of the first trump year, trump term, and particularly 2020, the four years ago in the famous formulation, as a historian and historian and presidential elections, how do you see it? i think january 6 is such a seminal event and for the days after it seemed like trump was toast. everybody was furious that insurrectionists, but lo and behold suddenly mitch mcconnell came back to trump and lindsey graham and they sort of built this coalition and what is it? it is really anti-federal government. that is what trump represents now. that is why we are seeing the american flag hung upside down by conservative justices. and biden is trying to be part of a tradition, presidents club, of all of the other presidents. you saw on june 6, where ronald reagan is. by then saying i represent all of this and trump is sort of the anti-federal government, anger over covid. and that people still feel that their lives became topsy-turvy and they are going to punish whoever the incumbent is. so it is hard for biden to get traction even though as you said, numbers on the economy are good. we are much better off. he has shown great leadership, but communicating that to the people when there is this much frenzy on social media and hatred toward the federal government, it is an uphill battle for biden to get reelected. i was thinking about 2010, the elections in which of course democrats lost. the tea party uprising. a lot of that was something similar was happening. which is people were frustrated with the aftermath of the financial crisis ushered in by the republican party. democrats were the incumbent party and they took it out against the democrats and it was sort of classic like we don t like the status quo because things are bad and they were bad, but the reason they were bad is because what had been passed on. there is something similar here where the things people don t like him a totally understandably, the shocks that came out of covid were not the doing of joe biden. subsequent administrations had to fix that and people still feel frustrated with the pace that is happening. it s interesting that you bring up what happened in 2010 because i think of the history of the democratic party. to clean up the miss of the republican party and as democrats clean up the miss they have to message against republicans who are acting as if they want the party that let estate into it. four years ago donald trump was telling people to drink leach to cure covid while he was having superspreader events. four years ago people were in their homes watching what you just did in a montage, but we were watching that every day for 24 hours, not knowing when we would see our loved ones and then trying to figure out who we were going to vote for when it comes to the president to get us out of this. you know, policy for people to feel it in their pocket books takes a very long time and while you mentioned some great reports for the biden administration, even the global economic report this week that said the global economy is strong because the u.s. economy is getting strong, but people are not feeling that yet. that is not the fault of president biden. that is the unregulated corporations that republicans are blocking anything democrats want to do around this. this debate coming up, president biden will have to figure out how to message that as well as the surrogates and people talking about this between now and election day so people understand how they are not feeling this, even though these historic numbers are bringing us back to a place that the american people really want to be. you know, doug, i think that before times nostalgia is powerful and i think there is another thing in play here and i would like to get your thoughts on it. my view of trump was always that this is a person who is so unsuited to the job above all else that if and when a crisis comes it will be the worst possible response and then covid happened and it was borne out. i think a lot of people think 2020 is a mulligan. it was a meteor that hit earth and they sort of blocked out the degree of insanity in the crisis management that happened that year and i wonder if you think it is possible to remind them or people are so resistant to thinking about it. i think you can and it is going to be imperative that joe biden reminds people, particularly during the upcoming debate with trump. trump has gone through so many legal jeopardy moments and years have gone by and we are running it on television all the time and you have the 34 felony conventions convictions. even when that happens some democrats were saying don t rub it in trump s base. of course you have to rub it in his face. you have to call him a felon. biden has struggled i think with messaging in the sense of this economy that has been building. he called it a transitory pain we were having at one point and then it was bidenomics. instead they have to lay out that our economy is doing well. yes, i feel your pain at milk, groceries, gas, but he has to be the happy warrior like fdr. at times he does that. i felt that when he was in france, talking about freedom and democracy, but other times he gets in a bit of a defensive crouch. you can t be gerald ford with whip inflation now buttons. you can t be jimmy carter, the malaise or crisis of confidence. presidents get reelected with a sense of victory and optimism and better times are yet to come and obama when he ran, he had the killing of osama bin laden which gave him the foreign policy credential that people clearly understood. the revenge of the 9/11 disaster. the sort of past versus future obviously you have two individuals, one is who is 78 and the other is 81. in some ways donald trump is the recent past and i do wonder if because the past four years have been so dramatic and disruptive, people want to go back in time and that is part of the allure. i think people want to go back in time when there was what they felt was more certainty. with covid there was such uncertainty. the racial unrest and then we saw january 6. hindsight is 2020 and for some reason some people as though they people feel as though they were better under donald trump. that wasn t the case. i think we have to make sure that president biden, and i hope his campaign is listening, that he simplifies his message. he has always been the comforter right next to president obama. be that president and then talk about the ways not only has it gotten folks out of this, but he will continue to do so if they give him four more years. along with a congress and senate to keep doing this work. alencia johnson and doug brinkley, thank you both. coming up, the hunter biden narrative backfires on republicans and now they are going after the attorney general instead. that is next. next. impossible. we re solving the meat problem with more meat. for moderate to severe crohn s disease skyrizi is the first il-23 inhibitor that can deliver remission and visibly improve damage of the intestinal lining. serious allergic reactions and an increased risk of infections or a lower ability to fight them may occur. 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have the transcript. today they voted to hold the attorney general in contempt. congressman joe neguse of colorado is assistant democratic leader and member of the judiciary committee and joins me now. congressman, what was this all about? good evening and good to be with you, chris. unfortunately it is a sad state of affairs in washington, d.c. as extreme house republicans have once again found a way to weaponize what are very constitutional and serious tools that the congress has at its disposal. in this case, as you articulated, they pursued a baseless contempt resolution against the attorney general. by way of background as many of your viewers already know, the attorney general fully complied with the requests made by the congress. the department of justice produced over 90,000 pages of documents with respect to this inquiry. more by the way, chris, then the entire department of justice provided during the course of the trump administration and also produced the transcript itself of the president s conversation with the special counsel. the contextual reasons house republicans offered for purposes of the audio were clearly a smokescreen for what was a political exercise. they wanted audiotapes to use them for a campaign commercial and the attorney general cited a number of reasons why ultimately that tape could not be provided. the president invoked executive privilege and republicans in the house of course know that to be the case, but they proceeded anyway. unfortunately i think it is shameful and disgraceful and we will have to see what comes next in the clown show that they have perpetrated on the american people right now. you know, two things i want to note. the republican who voted against it said as a former prosecutor i cannot in good conscience support a position to score political points. the american people expect congress to work for them and solve policy problems. enough is enough. second of all i want to make sure that i have the events right. merrick garland appoints a special counsel to investigate the president. the man that he appoints is a republican who is a donald trump appointee in the justice department. this individual asks for an interview which the president voluntarily complies with i think for nine hours despite the fact that donald trump never gave an interview to robert mueller. he then uses parts of that interview to take political shots at him in the opening introduction. they release the transcript and all of this is deemed, what? partisan by the republicans? how far can you possibly go? the answer is nowhere. there is nothing you can do. that is the question and it is an open question. you articulated the timeline well. i would offer two amendments. one, this attorney general produced as you know the special counsel report in full, unredacted. very different compared to attorney general bill burr. i remember as we dealt with subterfuge with respect to the special counsel investigation and in this case the special counsel testified in front of my committee, as did the attorney general as recently as last week. this is a farce. house republicans know that. it is a way for them to up skate their lack of days for them to obfuscate their lack of an agenda. they prefer to spend time on these political games, which is unfortunate. it is not a coincidence the timing between hunter biden s conviction yesterday and this. this is the new york times reporting. mister trump who aggressively attacked hunter biden in the 2020 election has changed his mind about doing so now. trump said republicans needed to be careful not to go overboard because it could elicit sympathy and make people view the president as a caring father. so they spend years chasing this guy to the ends of the earth. they successfully, let s be clear, they basically successfully control this investigation. the prosecution happens and now it is like we ve got to light a new fire because that one has burned out. look, in their view the circus must continue. their message is not resonating with the american people, so as a result they will continue pursuing political retribution at every turn and of course this is not the first time. they pursued seven or eight different impeachment resolutions at various points in the last 18 months against a variety of cabinet officials. they impeached secretary mayorkas. that was dispensed in the senate without a trial. the attempted impeachment of president biden failed. so i have no doubt that unfortunately these games are going to continue for some time. hope springs eternal that perhaps some in the republican caucus will do what representative joyce did today and ultimately speak truth to power and do the right thing and join us in getting back to the business of the house. congressman joe neguse, thank you for your time. up next, what happened in the senate when the democrats tried to introduce ethics to the supreme court. next. . my mental health was better. but 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your doctor right away if you have symptoms of this infection, an allergic reaction, or ketoacidosis. far-xi-ga chewy, a citi client, uses citi s financial expertise to help drive its growth and keep its supply chain moving, so more pet parents can get everything they need. right when they need it. keeping more pets, and families, happy. for the love of moving our clients forward. for the love of progress. they say we should stop eating so much meat. for the love of moving so we made meat out of plants. because we aren t quitters. impossible. we re solving the meat problem with more meat. we are going to start with something simple that the whole country will be able to understand immediately and intuitive. we want a $50 gift to ben. they make $300,000 a year. pay for your own lunch and pay for your own vacation. it seems sensible. democrats have started actively pushing for binding ethics legislation in the house like a bill that would limit the justices, all of the justices, to the same rules that guide members of congress and federal employees. in the senate today democrats ask for unanimous consent to pass a binding ethics package for the court. it was blocked by the top republican on the senate judiciary committee, senator lindsey graham. joining me now is senator jeff merkley, one of several democrats who took to the senate floor arguing why the ethics package should pass. senator, it is good to have you on. first, tell me what the act fix what the ethics package, what would it do? it is so straightforward, chris. it says they would have to have a binding code of ethics at least as strong as the house or senate has. what applies to the executive branch, what applies to other judges, what applies to members of the house and senate applies to the supremes as well. that is like what congressman raskin and ocasio- cortez were talking about. you could not do it as a senator. you could not do it as a mid- level engineer at the department of the interior and you could not do it as any other federal judge. chris, it is just phenomenal. think about what this looks like. it is mega yacht trips. indonesia. tuition for family members. luxury rvs. helicopter flights. you name it. $6 million of gifts over the last 20 years. here is the scenario. for an average person hauled into court and somebody sues you and you find out the person suing you has been going on fishing trips to alaska with the judge. would you think you are getting a fair shake? that there is any possibility of justice in that situation? the answer is absolutely not. that is a profoundly corrupt court and that is what we have today. i think, well, i don t know what the logic is but i think republicans say this is all partisan. the reason you are doing this is because you don t like the rulings in the court, you don t like the ideology, so you are trying to attack legitimacy to a road power for purely ideological and partisan reasons. certainly if republicans want this court to have the force that comes with integrity and respect of the american people, then they should be the first to step forward to clean up this miss. it is in fact a miss and certainly i believe that these justices on the right who were trained and selected by the federalist society to deliver power on a plate to corporations in america, are deeply, profoundly warping the constitution. in favor of corporations and against consumers and environmental laws and many other things. this issue of accepting massive gifts from people who have issues before the court, that stands on its own. separate from any dispute one might have. i want to redo something that sam alito said last summer in an interview with the wall street journal to a lawyer and a writer there. he said i know this is a controversial view, but i m willing to say it, he says. no provision in the constitution gives congress the authority to regulate the supreme court, period. what do you think of that? it is called legislation and the constitution does give legislation power to the congress. it gives the ability to put a code of ethics on the executive branch. yes a president can veto it, but we can override that veto. certainly there was a sense of while the constitution said little about what the court system would look like, there were massive decisions made by congress to decide how the judiciary would be structured and run. so absolutely that does not pass any sort of common sense or legal examination. final question and quickly. on the question of having the chief justice come before the senate. he has basically blown off an inquiry from the chair of the judiciary committee who reached out to him. samuel alito has written to say i am not recusing myself. basically they are like, you are not the boss of us and we don t have to listen to anything you say. is that a tolerable equilibrium? it is not, because they are basically saying we have the right to be corrupt and you can t do anything about it and that deeply undermines a key institution in our country in which we need to have a sense of respect. a sense that it delivers the balls and strikes, as justice roberts once said in his confirmation hearings. right now we are getting profound conflict of interest and that is really sad to hear. chris, here is the thing. justice roberts, in running this court, he has to recognize that he is failing in his responsibility to run this court in a fashion which delivers fairness and a sense of integrity to the american people. one jeff merkley, inc. s very much. we will be right back. if advanced lung cancer has you searching for possibilities, discover a different first treatment. immunotherapies work with your immune system to attack cancer. but opdivo plus yervoy is the first combination of 2 immunotherapies for adults newly diagnosed with non-small cell lung cancer that has spread, tests positive for pd-l1, and does not have an abnormal egfr or alk gene. opdivo plus yervoy is not chemotherapy, 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yervoy. a chance to live longer. right now across the u.s., people are trying to ban books from public schools and public libraries. yes, libraries. we all have a first amendment right to read and learn different viewpoints. that s why every book belongs on the shelf. yet book banning in the u.s. is worse than i ve ever seen. it s people in power who want to control everything. well, i say no to censorship. and i say yes to freedom of speech and expression. if you do too, please join us in supporting the american civil liberties union today. for over 100 years, the aclu has fought for your rights and mine. including the right to read all manner of books. so please call or go online to myaclu.org. for just $19 a month, only $0.63 a day. you can become a guardian of liberty and help protect all the rights promised to us by the u.s. constitution. make no mistake, this move to ban books is a coordinated attack on students right to learn. this is a clear violation of free speech. that s why 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trump s closing message railing against pharmaceutical companies and the like and bernie sanders message from the beginning. it has been almost a decade since my brief flirtation with internet immortality. there was even a videogame created out of that. in my defense it had been a very long day covering the new hampshire primary and we were doing my show where we did so many msnbc shows that you re at jds tavern. in that very moment as i was speaking, in my line of sight, howard feynman sitting in a booth about to take a bite from a huge pastrami sandwich. the legendary political journalist was with us at all of those political moments on every primary, convention, everything in between going back more than 20 years. he was a near constant presence on msnbc, sharing reporting and insight from his career spanning four decades and seven presidents. you confess your weak spot up front, but then you turn it into a virtue and make what you hope is a dramatic and winning contest with your opponent. in this case as you say you cannot out flamboyant donald trump. you cannot be more, in many ways, irresponsible than donald trump. howard fineman was more connected in politics than just about any journalist has been. it was a force of nature who knew everybody in washington. i was so saddened to learn that howard died today at the age of 75 after a long battle with cancer. i knew him well. i knew him to be exceedingly clever and exceedingly kind. and howard had this bravado that they don t make anymore. our thoughts are with the family tonight including his son nick, who is a senior producer here at msnbc. we are all really going to miss him. i saw how easily it picked up my hair every time i dried it. it only takes a minute. look at that! the heavy duty cloths are extra thick for amazing trap and lock. even for his hair. wow! and for dust i love my heavy duty duster. the fluffy fibers trap dust on contact up high and all around without having to lift a thing. i m so hooked! 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[ surprised scream ] don t panic. gift easy with etsy. i told myself i was ok with my moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis symptoms. with my psoriatic arthritis symptoms. but just ok isn t ok. and i was done settling. if you still have symptoms after a tnf blocker like humira or enbrel, rinvoq is different and may help. rinvoq is a once-daily pill that can rapidly relieve joint pain, stiffness, and swelling in ra and psa. relieve fatigue for some. and stop joint damage. and in psa, can leave skin clear or almost clear. rinvoq can lower your ability to fight infections, including tb. serious infections and blood clots, some fatal; cancers, including lymphoma and skin; heart attack, stroke, and gi tears occurred. people 50 and older with a heart disease risk factor have an increased risk of death. serious allergic reactions can occur. tell your doctor if you are or may become pregnant. done settling? ask your rheumatologist for rinvoq. and take back what s yours. abbvie could help you save. it has been 250 days since the october 7th attacks, and an estimated 120 israeli hostages still remain in gaza. president biden, the u.n. security council, and the governments of qatar and egypt are all still pushing for a negotiated ceasefire that would release all the remaining hostages of the fate of that deal remains unclear. 120 hostages have been returned to israel alive that. includes 116 released as part of the brief pause in fighting that happened last november, as well as the four who were rescued in a military operation last weekend that also left nearly 300 palestinians dead, according to the gaza health ministry. since the conflict began, family members of many hostages have urged israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu and his government to come to a deal for the hostages release. organizing, protesting, meeting with leaders both in iz xrael the u.s., and now one of those groups has written an open letter to american jewish organizations asking their help to press netanyahu to end the war and accept the deal that s on the table, saying israelis are being held hostage, not just our families who are held by hamas in gaza, we are always hostage to bibi s actions. he is risking the lives of our soldiers. he is jeopardizing the lives of our hostages. he is endangering us all. a spokesman for those families a critic of the netanyahu government. multiple members of his family were taken by hamas on october 7th. three of his relatives were released in that initial swap last year, but his uncle remains in captivity where he recently turned 79. and he joins me now. it s really an honor to have you, and i want to thank you for joining us. i want to start just by asking you how your family is doing. how those released in november are coping, how you are coping with your uncle s continued absence. well, thank you for having me first. my family members are trying to cope, but you know, everything is in, like, this static mode because we are still waiting for abraham to come back. if he comes back, nothing can start moving into a phase, so day by day, i guess. this is the way a lot of families, not just my family, of course, a lot of families are feeling this way. and we are waiting for this issue to be resolved, and it s been taking so long. it s amazing. there are sort of two stories i ve heard or two sort of arguments about a ceasefire deal. one is that hamas won t accept one on the terms that israel would find acceptable, and that the head of the military commander in hamas wants to keep the war going. the other is that it s not worth a deal prematurely if it means a cessation of hostilities before eradicating hamas. and as someone who has a family member there and has been organizing, what is your demand, your request, your ask of your government on this negotiation? first and foremost, a ceasefire. first and foremost, a ceasefire. this is elementary. this is like when there was a ceasefire, hostages came back. now, they happen here and there, they are not a strategic solution to the problem of 120 people still kept in captivity. you know, during seven months of military operation israel succeeded in releasing seven hostages alive. this is, you know, a pace of one hostage a month. eight months, even. so 120 hostages would take ten years time. the hostages have no time. the sanitary conditions are nonexistent. the health is deteriorating by the day. physical and mental. and we must find a way to bring them back home as soon as possible. these are not, you know, these are not only young people, these are elderly people, grandfathers and parents and uncles and people that were taken from their beds at 7:00 a.m. on a saturday, you know, in their pajamas and barefoot sometimes, yeah. in the u.s., one of the things that people there has been kind of a joining of the notion of the war and the justness of it and doing it on behalf of the hostages. many people feel that the war is on behalf of the hostages, and people think that those, you know, who are calling for ceasefire are betraying them or forgetting about them. and you wrote this open letter that basically argued the opposite. and so for people that are people of good faith across the spectrum on this very contested issue, i want to hear your argument to them as a family member. sure, sure. first, again, a ceasefire. why? the thing that endangers the hostages the most right now, idf bombing. this has been from october 8th ongoing where my 9-year-old cousin s son was asked during an interview after he has spent 49 days in gaza captivity, he was asked what do you feel most about your grandfather still being there? without hesitation he answered the idf bombing. the idf bombing endangers the hostages, and the idf bombing, actually, we know about 14 hostages that were killed either by direct hit by the idf or, you know, as after an idf attack, the attackers needed to evacuate the space. they killed them, so you know, the military operation endangers the hostages. it got seven hostages out, 14, at least, dead, and this the whole military maneuver is not getting it s not for the hostages at all. it s not helping them. on the contrary, it gets them further and further away from the hostage deal, further and further away from getting united with their loved ones. because we know that the conditions for the hostage exchange or the prisoners exchange or whatever you want to call this, getting them back home is first, ceasefire. and by waging this war from day one, the israel government initiatives of this military operation is only keeping us apart, keeping us further and further apart. at the beginning it was only northern gaza, then it was rafah, and before that it was elsewhere, and we re just getting further and further apart from a solution to this problem, because the solution should start with a ceasefire. this is, you know, logical and basic. a spokesperson for the group of hostage, his uncle held by hamas in gaza. i can t thank you enough for making time for us. we re all thinking about you and your family. thank you very much. and we pray for the safe return of all of the hostages as soon as possible. this is a humanitarian issue. this is not some political issue, and people trying to make this a political issue, especially, the government trying to make this political. no, this is a humanitarian crisis. and everything should be done to get them back as soon as possible. thank you very much. that is all in on this wednesday night. alex wagner tonight starts right now. good evening, alex. 250 days, just unbelievable this is where we are. thank you, my friend, as always. so i want to start with a story that in any other universe would have absolutely nothing to do with politics or anything even approximating controversy. the kind of news we all used to read or hear and accept. but in the post-trump era, this
we can secure our world. don t just use a password alone. mfa sends a call, a text or a code to your phone. learn more at cisa.gov/secureourworld that s how we can secure our world! on that note, i wish you a very good night. from all our colleagues across the networks of nbc news, thank you for staying up late. i will see you tomorrow. tonight on all in. as we deliberate, we reached a verdict pretty quickly. the president s son found guilty of violating federal gun laws. no one in the country is above the law. everyone must be accountable for their actions. what the verdict means and does not mean about the rule of law in america. everyone is saying where is hunter? two tiered system of just a we have. the campaign led by compact is vetting potential running mates. i don t know. certainly, like, you committed a crime. the alito scandal that will not end. you know what i want? i want a sacred heart of jesus flag because i have to look across the lagoon at the pride flag for the month. jamie raskin on the push to get answers from the supreme court. can you tell us about how the supreme court and specifically the chief justice have addressed the scandals? all in starts right now. good evening from new york. i m chris hayes. in a political era marked by seemingly never ending string of historic firsts, there s another one today. a record decision the conservatives received with glee. hunter biden has been found guilty on all counts in his gun trial. federal trial in wilmington. hunter biden, the last living son of the sitting president was convicted today on three felony counts related to his lying on a federal firearms application in 2018 by not disclosing the struggles with drug addiction. he had the gun for 11 days. hunter biden now faces as much as 25 years in prison and his father, president biden, did not blast the case is a which one or target the prosecutors, judge, and jurors some of whom called into cable news shows to discuss the verdict with no major fears for their own safety in this high-profile case. president biden did not shake his fist at the justice system. he put up the statement. as i said last week, i am the president but i am also a debt. jill and i love our son and we are proud of the man he is today. so many families who ve had loved ones battle addiction understand the feeling of pride seeing someone, the other side and be so strong and resilient in recovery. as i also said, will accept the outcome of this case and will continue to respect the judicial process is hunter considers an appeal. jill and i will always be there for hunter and the rest of our family with our love and support. nothing will ever change that. i find that genuinely touching. love of family, respect for the process. its income incredibly stark contrast to the ceaseless barrage of absolutely unhinged authoritarian histrionics we all witnessed last month. remember? not just from donald trump but the entire republican party. other people dressing up as donald trump who went to the courthouse so he will pick them to be the vice president and mob chanting for them to be hanged. all of them calling to tear down the entire judicial system are casting aspersions at new york jurors or near justice for the judge or the prosecutor. all because their nominee got caught falsifying business records and was convicted unanimously by a jury of his peers on 34 felony counts. this was a rigged trial by a conflicted judge who was corrupt . a rigged trial, a disgrace. this is like the soviet style thing. show me the person and i ll show you the crime. it was a smear job. it was an attack job. it s what you see in a banana republic. the problem is democrats have crossed the line. it s a justice system the hunch republicans while protecting democrats. this was a hoax. a sham. do we want to become a country where we jail political opponents? republicans and protects democrats. what do you think the party affiliation of hunter biden is? and so, this hunter biden conviction is as clear a moment of contrast as possible between the two major coalitions, the major parties and political polls today. what did illustrates is one party under donald trump, and this is important, has placed itself outside the american constitution while the other still trying to defend and uphold of. that was closed in january 6 but at that time, particularly the aftermath, there was palpable horror among republicans. lots of them talking how horrified they were. re-signing from the administration and all that. there was a sense the party wanted to distance themselves from trump s lawlessness. that was then. today they are fully united as a party in opposition to that. attitude typified by possibly the most powerful conservative you ve never heard of russ vought, portions of the heritage foundation project 2025 on how to remake the executive branch in a trump presidency. this week, the washington post identified russ vought as a potential chief of staff and the trump administration even if he lays out his vision for a post-constitutional presidency to turn the government into a flatly authoritarian project or failing that, just a mafia state. reporting that he is help craft proposals from trump to deploy the military to quash civil unrest, seize control of the justice department, and assert the power of appropriations and that s just on trump s first day back. democrats are not just making statements of faith and the legal institutions, they have taken reelections to preserve those institutions and their independence. no better example of this is the prosecution of one hunter biden. remember how this started? back in 2018 under david weiss, the u.s. attorney the trump- appointed in delaware, the fbi probed hunter biden and there were subpoenas but no charges. remember, trump grew angry at that, quote, was justice department had not publicized the investigation into his opponent s son during the 2020 election. after trump lost that election, republicans insisted president biden would obstruct justice to keep his son free and they called for a special counsel to investigate hunter biden. when the new president comes in, it s his right to replace any u.s. attorney who wants in the usually do. been replaced donald trump s appointees at doj except for two. john durham who bill barr tasked with investigating the rusher probe, trump special. and david weiss who was investigating his own son. that is because the new president, at the pains of a possible criminal conviction of his surviving son in recovery wanted no appearance of impropriety or of fearon s. merrick garland went a step forward. and he appointed david weiss as special counsel to make sure his work on the hunter biden case was independent. that was a move that republicans opposed? the republicans in the house judiciary, david weiss can t be trusted. it s a new way to whitewash the biden family s corruption. after all of that and a plea deal that was worked out with hunter biden but ultimately rejected by the courts, he ended up charging the president s son for an weapons are rarely prosecuted that even trey gaudi, the far right ex- congressman and former prosecutor could scarcely believe. i did gun prosecutions for six years. i went after convicted felons. i went after people who were fugitives from justice. i went after lots of different people who were prohibited from possessing a firearm. i will bet you they were not 10 cases prosecuted nationwide of addicts or unlawful drug users who possess firearms relied on applications. i bet there were not a dozen. it makes you wonder of all the cases you could be pursuing in delaware, why are you pursuing this one? all of this facilitated by democrats in the white house and the department of justice and capitol hill, all to try to restore faith and equal justice under the law and the norms of the constitution. trump flagrantly violated the norms at every turn. stewing we could not interfere further. publicly calling for prosecutions. you may have forgotten this nugget that months into his presidency trump was calling federal prosecutors and cultivating relationships with them including the was attorney for the southern district beat barrera, obama holdover who was overseeing investigation into stock trades made by trump s health secretary tom price. he said those calls made him uncomfortable and he was fired as u.s. attorney less than a day after he finally refused to take a call from trump. people inside the administration would later tell propublica, trump s personal attorney bragged about getting bharara fired reportedly telling trump this guys going to get you. the former u.s. attorney for the southern district of new york joins me now. an interesting study in contrast over the last few weeks. indeed. what strikes you about the reaction today? when you think of the biden family and how joe biden in particular thinks of his job, and his family, upon a conviction before the conviction, the investigation and arrest and indictment of his son given what his family is been through, you would think every parental, a fatherly instinct would ve been to protect him. if you are a father, you love your children more than you love yourself. you need to protect them from harm and you try to protect them from bad consequences. the biden family has suffered bad things as a family and yet there s some things more important than that when you are commander-in-chief and the president of the country. one of those things is no one is above the law and the rule of law matters. this that you have been pointing out, joe biden had absolute authority, literal authority. no authority over alvin bragg and did not direct the prosecution of trump. it s his justice department and he had authority to direct people not to prosecute his son. he could ve fired special counsel and directed them not be appointed in the first place. he could ve pardon has some preemptively. he could still pardon him but he said he will not do that. all of that conduct given it is his son, it s kind of think how unbelievable that is. in 1 million years if the shoe were on the other foot and donald trump was facing the prospect of his son being prosecuted by me if i had been held over, a biden holdover or obama holdover prosecution, not in 1 million years with that have happened. some of the people on the right who support donald trump are trying to cast this as some clever ops program by which this actually proves it to hash i will say it s outlandish to announce don jr. getting in trouble with guns or drugs. stephen miller said it s a misdirection and easy effort doj to sell to appliance media that s too willing to be due. it s about protecting joe biden and only joe biden. no matter what happens, the corrupt rigged system is steeper than you realize. if every possible outcome, permutation is arguably a point in your favor, maybe your position is terrible. i used a different word than terrible. i don t even think he was required even by probity to keep david weiss on in delaware. honestly. when i say bend over backwards, it would ve been perfectly reasonable bend over backwards above and beyond. and it would not be reasonable to say wink wink, nudge nudge. if you say, do your thing. he didn t have to do with. other features important to point out and you mentioned some of them in the intro. the jury verdict came out and they didn t dox the jury or take the judge. he didn t say it s a travesty of justice or a witch-hunt. he said what i used to say when i was attorney and from time to time even though with the you win some and lose some. we respect the jury. opposite of what trump did. one of the most striking things is after the trump verdict and i remember judge kaplan in the federal civil trial with e. jean carroll told the jurors, you can talk to the press, i advise you not to. and they did not. in alvin bragg s case they did not talk to the press. they would expose himself to harassment a possibly threats and harassment. i m a reporter and i like it. what a contrast. it s a stark contrast. i think it goes to show and when joe biden and his supporters talk about the rule of law, they mean it. you can disagree with his policies. talk about the border and other things that are not in my daily work but on the question of whether or not the rule of law is to be enforced in fear or favor to be given to anyone including the son of a sitting president of the united states, the republicans are full of it on the trump side and biden is not. walk the walk. final question, independence and the department of justice. we have a post-nixon order. one of the things about nixon, a level of regulation, norms, and statures was the department of justice can t just be a tool in the hands of the executive to pursue vendetta. to prosecute and punish enemies. to protect friends. the trump vision is that. explicitly that. russ vought, they really think we are going to come in ski and it will be day one open investigation and that person and prosecute them. that which they accused everyone as of doing, they are saying, there is great irony, one of the cases pending against donald trump, the mar-a- lago case in florida, donald trump s team is made a number of motions to dismiss the indictment. one is vindictive prosecution. there is no evidence of that. no evidence that joe biden or anyone else directed that prosecution and indictment. by saying the things they re saying now that you are pointing out, donald trump ironically laying the foundation for a vindictive persecution motion to dismiss on the part of all the current people who donald trump will be going after because he s announcing his plans before election. all the statements in the plans, project 2025 and everything is will be chapter and verse in the briefs asking for the dismissal of those indictments. that s a great point. preet bharara, thank you. coming up congressman alexandria ocasio-cortez and jamie raskin on the scandals rocking the maga supreme court. donald trump s rude awakening from the criminal justice system. l justice system. her uncle s unhappy. i m sensing an underlying issue. it s t-mobile. it started when we tried to get him under a new plan. but they they unexpectedly unraveled their “price lock” guarantee. which has made him, a bit. unruly. you called yourself the “un-carrier”. you sing about “price lock” on those commercials. “the price lock, the price lock.” so, if you could change the price, change the name! it s not a lock, i know a lock. so how can we undo the damage? we could all unsubscribe and switch to xfinity. their connection is unreal. and we could all un-experience this whole session. okay, that s uncalled for. donald trump has been convicted of 34 felonies and now, americans, the ones who don t know at least getting a crash course the way life changes when you become a felon. since his conviction, trump is expected to have his gun license revoked under federal law. convicted felons are prohibited from possessing a gun. that was part of the issue when the hunter trial. it s unclear what it means for guns he has in his possession a. he told the probation officer he has a gun in florida. he could lose his liquor licenses first three new jersey golf clubs. new jersey prohibits any person who is been convicted of a crime of moral turpitude from having a liquor license. have you ever been convicted of a crime is often on job applications. a subject of reform campaigns to ban the box as a way to help former convicts get jobs and reenter society. that question about criminal convictions is part of the vetting for vice presidential pick where it seems only one member of the ticket gets to be a felon. the vast for a number of things. a number of people have been asked to submit this and that. like taxes? i don t know everything. criminal background? have you convicted a crime. charles coleman and civil rights defense attorney. a senior political reporter at rolling stones who has covered trump world. trump hoped would save him from conviction. they join me. it s interesting to watch folks who don t know this to watch the various implications of being convicted of a felony and the different regulations and things you cannot do. in some states it s voting, liquor licenses, and the like. speaking as a person of color and a former prosecutor, i am unmoved by these newfound epiphanies that are occurring on the right with respect to the reality of life in america if you are a convicted felon. one thing i find to be particularly interesting is how the right is scrambling to rearrange the narrative of what it is to be a felon. you are talking about the party that has planted its flag on the notion of law and order in america now having to walk out and say it s politically advantageous for our candidate to have 34 convictions on his record. this is a narrative they are not going to be able to square but it s funny to watch them try. he had invited on stage in the box, two folks broad conspiracy of folks like moving heavy drugs and violent crime. very serious stuff and has them on the state. this is our thing now. you were talking whether someone is an associate of felons. that is donald trump s jam. the list is very long. shockingly long, especially for someone who held the highest office in the country. i think it is a psych job. they re trying to say it s good we are felons. it s amazing how the tough on crime falls by the wayside when it s the racist game show host. donald trump and his minions love to talk to in and day out but two tiered system of justice. he is correct that one does exist in the country but he is at this tier and everybody is below. there s so many things he has been doing lately that no other defendant in a criminal trial could get away with. including the stuff he said about the judge. behind the scenes and in the open, and his maga brain trust prepared to exploit parts of the u.s. criminal code, as we have reported, to go after the alvin bragg sand letitia james and jack smith if he returns to power. some of this is cooked up behind the scenes in policy papers but so much is done in the open. you also have got them get alvin bragg before a committee. he is going to testify at the gop led judiciary committee. one question i have about this is, does any of this matter in the process that trump is going through? no, it does not. ramose, the probation officer? it s all rigged? does that matter from what sentencing? his public rhetoric absolutely i thought you were referring to alvin bragg. with respect to the things that donald trump is parroting and continues to parrot in the public dialogue around his case, that matters. one of the things a probation officer will take into account is what degree of understanding and remorse do you have? i screwed up. i am sorry. when you are in every opportunity in front of a microphone saying what a political prosecution this was. you have been reported on this that house republican leaders are gauging support for legislation that would like current and former president move a state case to federal court. have you heard any of that? oh, yeah. we reported at the end of last month that trump had been calling around to different conservative allies including republican lawmakers on capitol hill to lobby them when i m back in office, wouldn t it be great if you passed legislation ready for me to send that can have former and current president move their cases to federal court? again, i think they re getting high on their supply. i feel like that is a bad bill to vote for. for a front-line republican member. if you are a maga lawmaker, there is a cute appeal to it. it s not only moderate republicans saying maybe we should not do this. i have spoken to extremely maga attorneys close to donald trump with told me, maybe we shouldn t go down this run. we want to use state ag s and district attorneys to go after joe biden or hillary clinton. the principle applying equal he would hang them up. there is back and forth about the gun situation. i m sure you have encountered this. folks have guns. what does the law say about whether he can keep the gun in florida, new york crime. he will probably need to turn the gun in in florida. he will have a grace period or that s allowed. technically, he might be in violation of the law upon the notice of conviction, he will probably allowed some leeway but it would not surprise me if he has to turn it in. hunter biden conviction today was about he lied on a form because you cannot in terms of taking drugs and own a gun. violation of federal law and lied on the forms and of the ex- president holding a gun. having been convicted of a felony. it s a remarkable set of circumstances. thank you both. samuel alito s wife has even more thoughts about flags. aoc and jamie raskin on the supreme court s legitimacy crisis. itimacy crisis. hi, i m janice and i lost 172 pounds on golo. a friend told me that i was the only one holding me back from being as beautiful on the outside as i am on the inside. once i saw golo was working i felt this rush. golo really works. donald trump wins in november his plans including as the washington post reports a plot to convert federal civil service into an authoritarian tool to report friends and punish enemies. the scope of his plan his desire to weaponize the government against perceived foes. one of the most striking example was a trump department of justice lengthy battle to block the merger between at&t and time warner on antitrust grant. there was always a suspicion which is been all but confirmed that trump was trying to block the merger because he did not like time warner s news network cnn. antitrust and trump s hands was another tool of government authority that could be used to corrupt ends. in the latest episode of my podcast series why is this happening with pot 2024 those steaks? i talked with timothy who is the architect of president biden s antitrust policy. we talked about the respective records of donald trump and joe biden as president when it comes to antitrust action. there were indications, genuine bits of evidence, and a widespread perception amongst i think fortune 500 corporate elite that this was essentially, if you are with trump, if you were his friend you could get the merger approved and it you were his enemy you would have a problem. this became this powerful almost unilateral lover for trump to wield against people he did not like and the most notorious case being, and i think it was somewhat surprising, when the doj announced it would block a proposed at&t time warner merger. there is some evidence to suggest that at least partly it was born of the animus trump hat of cnn s coverage of him. that is pretty bad. i think it s a thing where trump didn t think there was a problem with it. no. i think he thought it was within his rights to order the breakup of a company he did not like. his white house counsel sort of restrained were slightly dead and that. there is so much circumstantial evidence that the white house and the presidency were involved in antitrust decisions that it s hard to deny it. you can find the full conversation i had with him who is a fascinating guy and an amazing record in this area by going to why is this happening? the stakes by scanning the qr code on your screen. you can listen to it wherever you get your podcast. ur podcas flight. cirkul is the energy that gets you to the next level. cirkul is what you hope for when life tosses lemons your way. cirkul, available at walmart and drinkcirkul.com. i must admit i was skeptical when supreme court justice samuel alito blamed his wife for that upside down american flag flying at their home after january 6. a symbol adopted by trump supporters who believed the 2020 election was stolen. it seemed like a convenient explanation but it looks like justice alito was telling the truth when he said infamously, quote, my wife is fond of flying flags. i am not. listen to her in a recent conversation secretly recorded and released by activist lauren windsor. you know what i want? i want a sacred heart of jesus flag because i have to look across the lagoon at the pride flag for the next month. and he s like, please don t put up a flag. i said i won t do it because i am deferring to you. but when you re free of this nonsense, putting it up and i m going to send a message every day, maybe every week. i made a flag in my head. this is how we satisfy myself. i made a flag. it s white and yellow and orange flames around it and in the middle is this word. in italian that means shame. shame. the opposite of pride? they have not responded to an nbc news request for comment but none of what she said changes the facts that justice alito allowed the flag to fly over so molly sits in the highest court on the land hearing cases related to the insurrection in january 6 and he sits on the court along with his buddy clarence thomas his wife was interviewed by the january 6 committee better tax with trump s chief of staff. both justice thomas and alito refused to root recuse himself despite the obvious appearance. we are faced with an urgent question. what can be done about us out of control court? democrats in the house oversight committee held a roundtable on the ethical crisis in the supreme court. one of the expert legal witnesses was my wife. leading the panel was jamie raskin, ranking member the oversight committee and new york congresswomen alexandria ocasio-cortez, the vice ranking member and they post join me now. good to have you on. thank you for having us. i will start with you about what the agenda was today to convene this. you cannot call hearings herself as a ranking member and not the chair. what were you trying to do today? the oversight democrats wanted to respond to the national clamor over this crisis of legitimacy at the supreme court. we analyzed the ethics crisis and we analyze the political crisis around confirmations that got us into this and the blockade of confirmations of people like merrick garland who was nominated by president obama that we began to talk about what things could be done both in the specific case of justices alito and thomas and about the ethical collapse at the supreme court. the highest court in the land with the lowest ethical standards. the only governmental officials in the land who are not governed by a binding ethics code. there is no process by which we can hold them accountable. it violates the essential principle that james madison identified as the heart of our justice system which is no man can be a judge in his own cause. we began to explore different avenues of holding them accountable. congresswoman, you said something toward the end saying it cannot be the case, a constitutional matter as an almost intuitive common sense matter that they are not subject to any checks. we have three coequal branches. checks and balances between them three branches in the position alito said in an interview that congress has no ability to regulate us whatsoever. what should congress be doing? what are you brainstorming? what s the conversation about what those checks can be? of course, justice alito s position is laughable. this idea that he can be and the court should be accountable to nobody and the only person that should be accountable is are themselves. this scouts promise sort of set up for how we should be having ethics standards for the highest and most consequential court in the land. it s completely unacceptable and not only unacceptable, but to have one of our coequal branches be completely unaccountable to the others is paving the path to authoritarianism, tyranny, the abuse of power in the united states. it s structurally, completely unsustainable. it s not a question of if congress has jurisdiction and power over the supreme court. it is what power are we going to exercise in order to reign in a fundamentally unaccountable and rogue court? one of the beautiful things about the roundtable today is we were able to call in one of our senate colleagues, senator white house, who has been pursuing extensive investigations into the dark money networks that has been exerting influence over the court and we raised and discussed a varying degrees of measures from term limits to actual binding ethics standard and congressman raskin i myself will be introducing a forthcoming legislation to even have the supreme court be subject to the same $50 gift rule that he and i are subject to is everyone else is, members of congress. that is a great point. i was talking to my wife kate shaw who gave testimony today before your hearing. she pointed out to me that if i m not mistaken, things like, you can get a book deal as a supreme court justice but you could not be a partner of wilmer hail. that s something congress passed a statute to say what you could or could not do. you would be nuts to be a supreme court justice and have a side gig as a lawyer. presumably, you can change data congress can pass statutes that says this is not allowed. congress has a ban on outside employment and as aoc was saying, we have a $50 gift ban. none of us goes near doing that. you don t do $500,000 vacations? that s a comical thing. members of congress don t even understand that. what circumstances would a supreme court justice accept millions of dollars in foreign travel prepaid tuition for very family members or recreational vehicle, motor stagecoach. it s outlandish to contemplate. that s a general level of funds for people over here. the normal business as usual at the supreme court that they are collecting millions of dollars and hundreds of thousands of dollars from the so-called friends. we need to clean that up. we said, we will start was something simple that the country can understand immediately. we want a $50 gift ban for u.s. supreme court justices. they make $300,000 a year. pay for your own lunch and you re on vacation. that does seem quite clear congresswoman and has the advantage, there s issues to deal with. in some ways, the only way to legislate for congress to act as outlaying broad principles that are broadly applicable. absolutely. as all of us as public servants of federal public servants whether it s both chambers of congress, the white house, many of us are subject to the same if not extremely similar and uniform code of ethics. the fact that the supreme court which is already unelected, at least for those of us who run for office, we have to re-run for office every two years in the house. for an unelected body of nine people appointed for life do not have any sort of binding, strict ethics code to which they cannot only be held accountable but which can be enforced, is actually ludicrous. it s almost unbelievable that we are sitting here in the year 20 24/200 years after the establishment of this country, and we have not addressed this issue. it is something that s long past doing and it s common sense. one thing we addressed is how the private corruption of the justices mirrors the public correction corruption of. it has been dismantling civil rights law, civil liberties, women s right to choose an abortion, labor law, consumer law, you name it. as they grow more removed from the experiences of the way the rest of us live, the more they are willing to demolish the protections the rest of us need to. there s a bunch of things to happened outside of the purview of this question, the court has to deal with equal justice under law and i wonder if you would stick around to talk about that. love to. love to. are you still struggling with your bra? it s time for you to try knix. makers of the world s comfiest wireless bras. for revolutionary support without underwires, and sizes up to a g-cup, find your new favorite bra today at knix.com craig here pays too much for verizon wireless. so he sublet half his real estate office. and sizes up to a g-cup, [ bird squawks loudly ] to a pet shop. meg s moving company uses t-mobile. so she scaled down her fleet to save money. and don s paying so much for at&t, he s been waiting to update his equipment! there s a smarter way to save. comcast business mobile. you could save up to 70% on your wireless bill. so you don t have to compromise. powering smarter savings. powering possibilities. still with me congressman jamie raskin and congresswoman alexandria ocasio-cortez, the ranking and vice ranking members of the house oversight committee. today, the president s son was convicted on counts he was charged with. i went to read the president s statement and get your reaction. he said i will accept the outcome of this case and will continue to respect the judicial process. jill and i will always be there for hunter and the rest of our family with our love and support. nothing will change that. what did you think of that? i mean, it was very residential and he showed in his statement love for his son and love for his country including the rule of law. the different reactions between republican colleagues and democratic colleagues with the trump verdict in the hunter biden verdict, it s astounding. nobody on our side said the fix was in. nobody said it was a travesty. nobody said that justice system needs to be turned upside down. everybody accepted it. hunter biden like donald trump had the right of counsel which he exercised. he had the presumption of innocence and had the right to take the stand but chose not to do. trump chose not to do. they had unanimous jury verdicts finding they were guilty on all counts. i am saying about that what i said about trump s burdick which is they have a right to appeal and they can do that under due process. thank gut we ve got that in america and we will stand by the rule of law and the system of justice for the same reason we are fighting for a supreme court that restores its integrity and reputation. we need to have that kind of confidence not just at the trial level, federal court or state court, we need it all the way up. those supreme court justices are a runaway body at this point. speaking of state court in new york, congresswoman you represent part of new york. there was insults and vitriol that has been directed at alvin bragg from donald trump down in the people s carrying water for him. that has escalated. he is being called for the house republicans before i think the judiciary committee and be grilled by house republicans have rallied behind trump since his conviction. gop lawmakers are perpetuated the false narrative that president biden ordered his prosecution. what do you think about the fact that they are escalating to the point where they will haul alvin bragg before congress? what we are seeing here unfold is an out right abuse of power in the politicization, the seats of power these republicans hold to intimidate the courts and exact political revenge. we have to look at this from a basic jurisdictional point of view. alvin bragg is not even dad it s not even a federal case. we are looking at a state court. we are looking at municipal and state courts. we have republicans who are trying to haul them in, on what grounds exactly? it s not federal court. they do not have jurisdiction over it. it is truly an attempt at public targeting. we see they do this. it s in the model of donald trump and the model of invoking and trying to incite as much anger and intimidation in order for them to get the outcomes they want. and they are eager to be servile sycophants of donald trump that their political judgment is up. that s not where the public is and they understand what the hunter biden verdict in the donald trump verdict the rule of law is working and they are intervening as you say in a state case in order to placate donald trump. precisely. what we are also seeing is the stark contrast between joe biden and donald trump. president biden we have yes a loving father who was there to be supportive of his son but also a president who respects the rule of law and willing to accept the outcomes of a case even if the outcome is not in favor with his family or his personal outcomes. you have donald trump who takes and weaponize is the seats of government, the seats of power, and embarks on a campaign of political intimidation in order to secure outcomes that personally benefit him. that at the core is part of the stakes of our democracy that are before us today. once rule of law goes out the window, it s not something that is easy to get back. it s very much a part of the decision we have to make in the next few months. thank you for all your time tonight. that s all in on this tuesday night . night . tuesday night. good evening, alex. we have some new exclusive audio from the supreme court historical society that lauren windsor has given us and
which is straight after this programme. hello. welcome to the media show. well, on this week s programme, we ve talked about a couple of subjects which are pretty familiar to us on the media show, but they re no less pressing because of that. one is howjournalists should cover donald trump and of course, he s trying to become president of america again and the other is about the business models of news, because they are under ever more pressure. and when it comes to the business model, we are also looking at al and journalism, because several news organisations have done recent deals with the big tech firms. so that is all coming up. on this week s programme, we re going to hearfrom andrew neil, who has a brand new show on times radio. he s also the chairman of the spectator group. and we rejoined by caroline waterston, the relatively new editor in chief of the daily mirror. yeah, we ve also got two guests coming out of the states one, katie notopoulos, who s the senior tech and business correspondent at business insider. but the first person we spoke to isjeffrey goldberg, who is editor in chief of the atlantic. and we started off by asking him just to sum up what the atlantic is. how is that even possible? on the rare. just in case people don t know, it s a 167 year old magazine founded in boston. 1s. 1850s, before the civil war. politics, culture, literature, remains committed to those coverage areas today. but we try to explain america to itself to some degree. i think that s one of our purposes. we have a monthly magazine with a large subscriber base. we have a million subscribers, including digital subscribers. we reach a pretty wide array of people across the us and other parts of the english speaking world. and i think i m right in saying you re privately owned by emerson collective, which is an organisation set up by laurene powelljobs, widow of the apple founder stevejobs. just explain to us how that works. yeah. laurene and emerson collective bought the atlantic seven years ago. it works, knock on wood, wonderfully well. she s a great owner. we have complete editorial independence. she s very supportive of the mission, as is the whole organisation. we re a for profit organisation, although emerson collective has a for profit and a not for profit, separate wings. we are profitable on our own, which is a good thing and fairly rare these days. i m just thinking about. i ve been thinking about the washington post a lot of the last couple of days. well, we definitely want to ask you about some of the announcements at the washington post. and we want to ask you about your route to profitability, because that was one of the reasons we were so interested to have you on the programme. before we get into the details of what you ve done at the atlantic, ijust with katie s help as well, and a guest who sjoining us want to put what the atlantic is trying to do and what all publications in the news arena are trying to do in some context. yes, because katie notopoulos is from business insider, and ijust thought it d be useful if she just gave us a recap on the structural problems facing the industry. because, katie, you know, as has already been mentioned, much of this comes back to advertising, doesn t it? right. so one of the biggest problems isjust that| digital advertising - which was what supported journalism for many . decades or centuries has sort of dried up. facebook and google are very effective at being digital- advertisers, and they ve just sucked up a lot of the - ad dollars out there. so if you re a brand i like pepsi, it s easier to put your dollars somewhere else than to run an ad - in a publication. and that has really affected . the industry across the board. and you obviously. there s a lot of other| factors going on, just the rise of digital, - and therefore print is not as popular as it used to be. but i think. you know, there are some bright i spots, and there s reason to be i hopeful about the state - ofjournalism and being able to sustain media businesses. katie, thank you. jeffrey goldberg from the atlantic, let s bring you back in. you launched your online paywall in 2019. tell us about that decision and what s happened since. yeah, well, it turned out to be excellent timing, because the pandemic hit the next year and advertising bottomed out. we re holding our own on advertising. we have good people doing it. and, you know, it s not going to be the primary source of revenue for this company going into the future. we ve switched, actually, since 2019. we re now majority. you know, the bulk of our revenue comes from subscriptions, the consumer business, not advertising, but advertising is still an important part. but we launched this paywall. i mean, obviously, we re a print. we ve been a print magazine since the 1850s. we ve had long experience of being a subscription based organisation. when we entered the internet in a big way in the mid 90s, late 90s, obviously programmatic ad revenue, other forms of advertising, became huge for us. but we finally decided, the company finally decided in 2019 to launch a paywall for a digital product. and thank god we did, because a combination of pandemic news and trump news really accelerated our growth in the next couple of years. and that brought us, we just crossed a million subscribers total. half of those. roughly half of those subscribers are print and digital and half roughly half are digital only. all news organisations are diversifying the type of content that they re making. i wonder, aside from the trademark atlantic long articles which many people will know, what else you offer digital subscribers? well, we have a daily report. you know, we re not building a second newsroom, or a third newsroom in the washington post case, for tiktok videos or whatever it is that they re doing. you don t sound overly impressed, jeffrey. no, i m just feeling generally dyspeptic today. so you re just getting. just getting a general vibe. hopefully, that s nothing to do with you coming on the media show! god, no. glad to hear it. just checking. this is the only meeting i m looking forward to today. sorry, we interrupted you. no, no, no. it s ok. i d rather make jokes than talk about the business ofjournalism. i think that. so when i started as editor eight years ago, you know, all i wanted to do, and i have, you know, laurene s100% backing on this, make highest qualityjournalism, because highest quality journalism is the only thing that people will pay for. you know, if we had put all of our eggs in the programmatic ad revenue basket, we d be in bad shape, and so on. and so i think doubling down on what you do best, and doubling down on making a unique. unique stories that people will actually pay you for to read is the way to go. and so we have a much more. you know, obviously, 30 years ago, before the internet, the atlantic came out, it was a, you know, more leisurely paced thing. today, we publish every day. we publish, you know, every hour in busy times. but we re still trying to maintain that level of quality and differentiation so that we can convince readers to become subscribers. i m going to pause you there, sorry, just to bring in andrew neil, because some of this with your spectator hat on must be sounding quite familiar. jeffrey s talking about a million subscribers. how. you re a subscription model as well? we are a subscription model. the spectator has about 100,000 subscribers in the uk, 20,000 in america, because we just launched there, and about 12,000 in australia. if you get the business model right, the digital age can be a golden age forjournalism and publications like atlantic monthly and the spectator. but you need to get it right, and you need to realise that the old business models will bankrupt you. so when i took over the spectator in 2005, 65% of our revenues came from advertising. today, it s less than 10%. advertising is only our third biggest revenue stream. we ve had to seek new revenue streams. we put a very tough paywall up about 12, 14 years ago. 80% of our revenues now come from subscription. and it s a wonderful business model, because subscription revenues are predictable. i know within 5% plus or minus what s coming in this year, because i know the renewal rate, i know what the marketing will produce, and it s not subject to the economic cycle, unlike advertising, which is highly unpredictable. so you get that right and you re a golden age. the poster child of all this, of course, is the new york times, which now has nine million subscribers, more foreign correspondents than it s ever had in its history. and they got in early, didn t they? that was part of it. they got in early, as some of us did too. the times and the sunday times in this country are now highly profitable on the subscription model. and then you need to look, in addition to subscription revenue, for other streams of revenue, streams that you would never have thought of before. so, for example, of course, you still take some advertising. you take very little programmatic. because here s the problem if you re a subscription model, you re providing a premium website, and you don t want your website punctuated by endless ads for things that you have no control over. so you really need to control that. and you re talking about digital dimes in terms of programmatic, but instead, you do newsletters, you do podcasts, you have spectator tv and other ventures like that. and above all, our second biggest stream of revenue events we do events that expand the brand and bring in a ton of money. ok, caroline waterston, i want to bring you in because this presumably isn t sounding very familiar to you because it isn t something that you re doing at the mirror. have you ever thought about subscription? have you ever thought about a paywall? it s not on the mirror s agenda. i mean, certainly from my point of view and from the mirror s point of view, you know, i believe that our content should be available to a wide community and not just those that can afford it. you know, we are a news brand. i want to ensure that everyone has access to our content, and certainly it s not on our agenda. but what does that mean financially? you re taking a hit. do you believe.? i mean, are.? are you essentially of the belief that a paywall is this too dramatic, a paywall is a threat to democracy? is that how you see it? no, it s just not on our agenda at the moment. that s because it doesn t work. we talked. well. for red top tabloids, it doesn t work. the sun tried it and had to abandon it. you know, it s different with atlantic, spectator, times, sunday times, financial times. people are willing to pay. ..new york times. people are willing to pay for that kind ofjournalism. the problem with what we used to call the red top tabloids is that people won t pay for it digitally. of course, in the old days, they paid for it by putting their money down to buy the paper. but it seems that a lot of that kind of content, they think they can already get almost for free on the net. so they re not. it s a. of allthe. you know, all of our industry from the top to the bottom has had to withgo digital waves of change. the toughest part of the market to get right is the red top tabloid part of the market, because the subscription model doesn t work. caroline? yeah. and, look, good quality journalism is exactly what we want to do. but good quality journalism shouldn tjust be available to those that can afford to pay it. so, yes, we are an ad model. ads help fund.ourjournalism. and certainly. that s where we are at the moment. in terms of the experience of the user, the digital user of yourjournalism, do you have any concerns that the proliferation of adverts, which you need in order to fund the work you re doing, lessens the experience? look, it s something i think about every day, but, you know, ads are a part of life, and certainly from the mirror s point of view, we have to produce good quality journalism, and ads help us do that. 0k. let s bring you back in, jeffrey goldberg, because what about your experience in the us, particularly relating to donald trump, who we know back in 2016 drove huge levels of news and news related content consumption? are you seeing the same thing this time around? 2016 and 2020. i wouldn t say. well, first of all, we have a much tougher paywall, so that limits the sort of explosive numbers that you would have seen 2020, 2016, in particular. i think there s also fatigue. you know, these are. these are characters in now what would be called a long running drama, right? trump and biden as well. i think there is some fatigue with it. all that being said, yeah, there s. there s obviously an unusual election taking place. i m trying to use the most anodyne words possible. there s a consequential election taking place and people are. our kind of reader in particular is going to be very engaged in it. but, you know and i think this is a lesson from the washington post in a way you can tjust assume that political news will continually spike for you. i mean, you have to do the thing that s the right thing to do for your publication. it s mission first. and if you forget that, you re going to lose your subscribers eventually anyway. butl. we re not going to see the same crazy numbers that we saw in the past. but obviously, this is not a normal election. and trump does draw an extraordinary amount of attention. i want to ask you further about trump, but you ve alluded to the washington post a couple of times. we should say that on monday, sally buzbee, we heard, was leaving her role as the washington post s executive editor, to be replaced by robert winnett from the daily telegraph. and will lewis, who s the ceo of the washington post, said, we are losing large amounts of money. your audience. this is to staff. your audience has halved in recent years. people are not reading your stuff. i can t sugar coat it any more. so the washington post is looking to change its strategy. but coming back more broadly to donald trump, this is a question we ve asked a number of times on the media show over the years, but it doesn t make it any less pressing. you ve called the election consequential and unusual i m sure there are other words you would use, too. how do you, as the editor of a hugely consequential magazine and publication in the us, approach the challenge of covering donald trump? and i m interested to ask andrew and caroline the same question afterwards. you know, we. we had this problem in 2016, where we were trying to. you know, we were following the old rules, you know, to some degree, which is. and the old rules were the old rules of coverage, what people would call both sider ism. the old rules worked.when you had candidates who operated within certain lanes, lanes of self restraint, lanes of adherence to democratic norms, when candidates felt shame and repositioned themselves based on feedback, regarding the things that they do. you know, the most important thing for me, and, you know, we try to get it right, and a lot of other people are trying to get it right, and a lot of people are trying to catch up the most important thing is that we describe things plainly. right? not euphemise, because donald trump s behaviour is so novel i mean, it s not novel any more, but it s still novel historically and that. you know, and that we don t become. and this is what i m always encouraging our staff about. we don t normalise to this. our own, you know. oh, well, trumpjust said that, you know, the north korean dictator s head is made of cheese. oh, who cares? he always says stuff like that. no, and we have to do it every. we have to report the oddness, whenever it erupts, and that. by the way, this means. we re notjoining the resistance. we neverjoined the resistance, which means we also questionjoe biden s capacities, for instance. that s how you re approaching it at the atlantic. i wonderfor the daily mirror here in the uk, caroline, how do you.? do you approach donald trump like any other politician? or are there particular things you tell your colleagues look, we have to be careful here ? look, trump is an interesting character, but at the weekend, you ll hopefully have seen we actually had the world exclusive of stormy daniels, post everything that happened last week. and, you know, the content that comes out of trump in his everyday life and how he acts, i mean, it creates brilliant, brilliant content for our audience. that s honest. yeah. andrew, let me bring you in here now, because we have senior british executives at the wall streetjournal, the washington post, cnn and bloomberg news. what do you make of this exodus of senior british editors in the direction of the us? bbc too. mark thompson. mark thompson, former bbc. ..is at cnn and was at the new york times. of course, we always put ourselves down, but british journalism is vibrant and dynamic and hugely successful. and we know how to write and we know how to write concisely. well, not for the first time on the media show, we ve been talking about artificial intelligence, and the item that we re going to see now is all about search results that are being produced by new ai products. yeah, this is quite a fun one because google has got a new search called ai overview, a search product, and it is coming up in some cases with some pretty crazy results. and i started by asking katie notopoulos, who s the senior tech and business correspondent of business insider, tojust explain how it all works. so it s not on every single search, it s only on certain searches, typically ones that are sort of asking a specific question versus, you know, searching somebody s name or something like that. and it basically gives you a little bit of. maybe a couple sentences, a little paragraph, maybe a few bullet points that essentially answers your question. and this is probably very useful for most searches most of the time. but it was initially sort of riddled with laughable errors. i mean, one of the things that i do know that you did this really is dedication to yourjob you made a pizza with glue and ate it. just explain why you did that. slightly gimmicky. i m assuming it was for a piece. it was. piece of pizza! americanjournalists are ready. all in the line of duty. ..to undertake these big challenges. laughter. yeah, some people have to cover donald trump s trial. some people have to eat pizza with glue on it. right. basically sounds like i the same thing, really. exactly. laughter. one of the sort of silly answer that was going most viral on social media was someone had asked, how do i get the glued cheese to not slide off my pizza? and google suggested, you know, let the pizza cool for a while. and then it also said, add one eighth of a cup of glue to the sauce. so you re the only person in america who did it. ..it had sourced that little piece of information from a reddit comment that had suggested that obviously as a joke. and everyone on reddit at the time, when they were reading it, could understand in context that the person was making a joke that to keep the cheese from sliding off your pizza, you should add glue to the sauce. google sort of couldn t understand that this was satire, that it was a joke. so, not great. i mean, ijust should bring in. well, google have said about this, because they ve told the bbc, these were isolated examples, generally very uncommon queries, and they aren t representative of most people s experiences, and that the vast majority, it says, of ai overviews, provide high quality information with links to dig deeper on the web. and it said it s taken action where policy violations were identified and it was using them to refine its systems. just in the last couple of minutes of the programme, let me ask a further question about al, and it comes down to when big organisations that have content, like the atlantic or the spectator or the mirror, decide whether or not to share all of that content with the big language models that are training generative ai. and jeffrey at the atlantic, jeffrey goldberg, you ve cut a deal with openai. tell us about the discussions within the atlantic, whether you were weighing up whether to do that or not. well, ijust have to be technically clear about something. the editorial team has independence from the business side of this operation, but the business side has independence from the editorial side. and this was a decision made by the corporation and by our business leadership to do this. and so.i was certainly told about it, and i was.invited to share my views on it, but, you know, i. what are your views on it? well, i have my ambivalence about it. i mean, i don t want to. i forget who was saying this before, but, you know, the internet has turns out been great for a place like the atlantic. we reach many, many more people than we used to because of the internet. i don t want to be, you know, sort of axiomatically luddite about this sort of thing and say, ai is only a threat, but i have my deep ambivalences about.ai and what it s going to do tojournalism and also, by the way, humanity and the future of our planet. all that being said, ai is coming whether or not i want it to come. and it s a little bit like, to me, complaining about the weather. the weather doesn t care that i don t like it. so i ve got to dress for the weather, and dressing for the weather in this case means trying to figure out a way to have a relationship with openai, in which openai doesn t eat you for lunch. let me just ask quickly caroline and andrew very quickly, if you would. caroline, how s the daily mirror viewing the idea of sharing its content with these ai, these big ai operators? we wouldn t. - we wouldn t want to. you re not planning to do that yet? no, we re not- planning to do that. and the spectator? we won t do that until we know a lot more about it. if it s another potential stream of revenue that doesn t carry risks, that s one thing. but we need to know a lot more. for me, the al s biggest opportunity is on the commercial side. i think a lot of the ai can help us run the company commercially much better. we can learn more about our readers, about usage of the app, usage of the website. all that sort of thing is fine, but forthe moment, i ll keep editorial separate. and i lljust add, the new york times is taking a very different approach to this. it s not collaborating with openai. in fact, it s suing for the theft of its content. so we re going to watch how that plays out. and i was at the enders deloitte media conference yesterday, where anna bateson, who runs the guardian, said they would do a deal with an ai company, but only on the right terms. so there you go. well. something to end on, because that is all we have time for, i m afraid. thank you so much to katie notopoulos from business insider and, of course, andrew neil from times radio, but also the spectator. and caroline waterston, editor in chief of the mirror, and jeffrey goldberg, editor in chief of the atlantic. well, thanks very much indeed to all of our guests. fascinating to hear their perspectives on all those issues. i suspect it won t be the last time we turn to ai, to business models of news, to covering donald trump, but it was very interesting to hear from all of them. i think you re right. thank you so much to everybody. that was the media show. we ll be back at the same time next week. bye. bye bye. and if you d like to hear a longer version of today s show, search bbc the media show wherever you get your bbc podcasts. hello there. wind coming from the north at times. temperatures are struggled to get into double figures but a slightly different story further south and west, just look at anglesey, a beautiful afternoon and lots of sunshine. temperatures peaking at 18 or 19 degrees. high pressure continuing its way in from the west, west is the best for tuesday, likely to be a few showers around but hopefully if you would far between. most frequently will be across is in scotland and eastern england. sunny spells and scattered showers going into the afternoon, having an impact with a temperature, but again with a temperature, but again with more shelter and sunshine, 17 or 18 degrees is not out of the question. scattered showers moving their way through northern ireland and scotland, hopefully they will ease over the afternoon. you can see the temperatures are still struggling. 10 15 degrees at the best. going into wednesday, the best. going into wednesday, the high pressure will continue to kill off the showers, so wednesday is likely to be the driest day of the week and make the most of it, more rain to come. a chilly start once again for wednesday morning, single figures right across the country, low single figures in auroral spots. hopefully the showers will be few and far between and more favoured spots for the showers once again to the east. more sunshine to the west. temperature is generally similar to what we have seen all week, 10 80 degrees. the wind will change as we move into thursday, unfortunately towards the end of the week the low pressure will take over and we will see spells of rain at times, some heavy but the wind direction it will play its part. a southwesterly wind means we are the temperatures are climbing a degree also, do not anything to significant because we have the cloud and the rain. not out of the question in eastern england because the highs of 20 degrees. take care. live from washington. this is bbc news. hamas submits its response to a us led ceasefire proposal, but says israel needs to commit to completely stopping the war. us presidentjoe biden s son hunter, is found guilty on all three charges in his federal gun case. and malawi s vice president, saulos chilima was killed in a plane crash, along with nine other passengers. i m sumi somaskanda. it s great to have you with us. the white house says its evaluating an official response by hamas to the latest proposal for a truce in the gaza conflict. us presidentjoe biden submitted the proposal about 12 days ago. earliertuesday, hamas said it has a positive
there she is. and it s a full bag. if anybody wants another checkay and look at my bus straight here. so it looks likene. can t h you can t hold this with one arm. let s trd y straight out. no, straight out. so i told you it first came o out. i thought in myn mind, newton, but it didn t do anyou of the women on the show, huh?fh why straight?y bu be careful with my posturest. . i like gus s bling. i think that s pretty good. that icloss. nine: do men close, though?ne if you didn t know that he s got a necklace on.have g all right, that s it for us. everyone, i m tired of us. have a great night, everybody. we ll see you tomorrow. we ll be here later. welcome to jesse watters. primetime tonight. hunter biden convicted of twounts o counts of lying on a form. the combination of gun as and drugs made his conduct dangerous. sno one in this country is abovi the law. hunter finally faces s the the music. what s this mean for the big guy? have yo a pardon for your son? yes. since the founding of our ideals, we don t know fully what american soil is. happy juneteenth. joe biden, you know, lost. you know, so long as i see that night. they took everything from us. there s nothing that could ever replace my son. it s just the face of evil. just do whatever you can. to keep this monster behind bars. plus, my name is wanda. yes, it is. but that s not what you told me, man. u? l, yeah, but who are yo fox news alert. guilty. guilty. guilty. was the verdict handed down by a jury of huntes thrdict r bh peers for the first time in his life? hunter facede n hi the music.two two counts of lying on a gun for one count of possession of a firearm by a drug user. rearm byhunter biden appeared wd and motionless as he became siti the first child of a sitting president to be convicted of a crimnge. three felonies. hunter now facing a maximum5 of 25 years in prison. but the sentencing guidelineriss suggest just a couple. although the judge could deviate and dojue althou whateve wants, sentencing will probably occur before september 5th whenl hunter goes on trial in l.a. for tax evasion lan. that means hunter could be sentenced to prison justd prs days before the second presidential debate. he ll obviouslyid appeal. here s special counsel david weiss. after today s verdict. y s ve hunter biden wasrd convicted of two counts of lyingbiden wa on a form submr to a federal firearms dealeral c about his addiction or use oraf crack cocaine and possessing a firearm while a user or addict. no one in this country is above the law. everyonen thiss abov must be ach for their actions. even this defendanis t. however, hunter biden should be no more accountabler shoul y other citizen convicted of this same conduct. that s the same biden prosecutor who tried the h to hand hunter probation and lifetime immunity for the guns and the tax felonieund s. e wond so we re wondering where this newfound concept newfm. e jubility came froer here s what one juror had to say after the verdict. watcd to sayh. biden was on trial and he was just like anybody else.w, nobody s above the law. you know, and matter who you are. whattics played me no part in this issue ever. the jury followed the law. the judge ran a tigh ft triald t and justice was served. but justic because one democrat was convicted doesn t mean the american legal system isn dt being abused. the feds are still throwing dozens of republicans in prisonp on trumped up charges and trying to incarcerate the republicanedup nominee for a crime they cooked up with black magic to hocus pocu s an election. hunter s judge didn t donate to a groupno called stop democrats either. the media celebrated the trump verdicmedit like a juy 4th barbecue, but treated hunter s like a funera a funerle this trial inside the courtroom, like virtually every criminal trial, was a personal story, a personal tragedy, a famil, way tragedy. every presidential family is part of the american family. that s the way it workresidents this is a tragedy for the biden familya that family drama playd out in a courtroom in ways we have never seen beforein way. iu it doesn t make it any less painful for the nation or bue r the family. but the verdict is now real now and the consequences will apply. this public life of this family, which bega tn a half century ago, after all, w with the car accident the wifeo sons lateit and his daughter, injured his two sons. you now fast forward all the way to today and this really dramatic and ultimately painful. process continues to hunter s everything: hunter the media cli to despise a white, privileged, sexist t, spoiled brad who barkb don t you know who my daddy is?s but he s a democrat. the so the media circles the wagons. the media ha cis more sympathy for a a crack addict who dumped a gun by a school than for gun a president who just wants to make america great again. moments t again. ago, hunter and joee we were seen hugging on the tarmac in delawar oe, where they ll be spending the night together. i m sure this father s dayttle a weekend is going to be a little awkward. biden wishedwk he could have ben there sooner, but in an act i of poetic injustice, he had gun to attend a gun control event just hours before the verdict. there s never been a timeayso that says you can own anythinguo you want. never. you couldn t own a cannon during the civilt own war. think about it. how much you hear this phrase, o the blood of liberty. a wash it down. give me a break. if they want to think, to take on government, if we get out of line, which they re talkingte about, well, guess what? they need f-150s. agd a rifle. e i mean, the bottom line, hard times. no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.n wa biden s son was so cocked, loaded and high. he s lucky no one died. but he wants to restrict the second amendment for sober, law abiding americans. and by the way, s. our government had f-15s in afghanistan and the talibanoy one with rifles. we re not looking a to overthrowre n joe just to thw them out. after a jury found hunter guiltyry of gun felonies,prou joe biden said he is proud of them. i quote, jill anlod i love our son and we w are so proud of the man he is today. there s no contrition at all by the biden family. hunter didn t. show any remorse. he was smiling afterwards. his father is not ashamed. wouldn t even gently condemnm his son s actions. hunter has committed more crimes and we can count. and al l biden says is he s proud. the reason honor s broken, the law for 30 years and not paid the piper is because of his dad because. if every time i screwed up and my dad s response wa s, ov i m proud, son. i love you, i d keep screwing up. bailing somebody out over and over again doesn t mean you love ther over agat m. hunter was kicked out of the navy for cocaine on and administrativeou dischargeof a instead of a dishonorable one because his dad greased ats. ras hunter got caught with cocaine at the jersey shore way back in the 80e wans, and the senator sn had his record expunged when he left his crack pipe in a rental car. police investigated and dropped the charges when he put 20 grand on his dad s amex foree russian escorts. the secret service cleaned it up when he lostcr cleaned hi. the fbi and cia covered it up when he owed millions in back taxes as sugar brother footed fn he needed money for alimony and child support. daddy s donors bough dadt his his dad s own justice department tried to make the gutedae trien tax case go ag a year ago today. what makesday. you think daddy won t save them again? will you accept the jury s te outcome, their verdict, no matter what it is? yects. a pard and have you ruled out a pardon for your son? woyour sons. biden never used the word commute. commuting a sentence means sprin you just spring him out of prison. the charge is still on theirt os record. biden s going to have to save gg his son to savo sae his own hid. remember the taxes in the gun? only a fractioann of the crimes hunter and joe biden would be guilty of if prosecutor wouls were allowed to followal the facts. whistle blowers have testified that investigatorsw th w were br at every turn from following leads that led to jowinge. the cia and fbi and the treasury department s are all in on the cover up. a strong case could be made for trump. prosecutor cs to investigategate money laundering, racketeering, bribery, foreign lobbying conspiracies. donald trump calls the gun case don. tractio quote, the trial has been nothing more than a distraction from the rea a dl crimes of the biden crime family, which has raked in tens of millions of dollars from china, russia and ukraine. crooked joe biden s reign over the biden family criminal empire is all coming to an end on november 5th. and never again will the bidens sell government access for personal profit. hunter biden may have faced musi c today, but the verdict on joe biden will come november 5th. co-host of the five, judge jeanine pirro is here and she s matching mere. we coordinated judge will this judge sentenced hunterident biden to prison? o well, there are thosethin who think that the sentencing guidelines, which are no longeka mandatory, can call for between 15 and 21 months. enand, of course, if the judgedo wants to do a downward departure, she can do so. but she s got to give a reason to do so. i don t know that she would be inclined to do so, given a couple of things. n hunter biden could have pled guilty, admitted it took responsibility and admitted remorse. this judge also is a judge who was the one who first saw through the fact that the depaer biden team and the department of justice was trying to pull the wool over her eyesstic and create this immunity in perpetuity so that hunter biden would never be prosecuted for a crime for the rest of his life pro. i want one of those deals.s. yeah, who doesn t? right. and then in addition who to that, the nullification argument, i mean, the defense wentation ao this courtroom, justified any kind of reasone. and it was really an insult to the jury that saw right through it. t th i mean, you ve got you ve got the defendant whose voice whmbellowing in the courtroondan basically saying, i was addicted to drugs. you ve got all kinds of evidence. to drug kinyou got a laptop that the biden administration and everybody in so-called intelligence said was fake. so this judge may say, said wa e what, enough of pulling the wool over everyone s eyes. maybe i ll give hi seyes, i will time. so if the sentence comes sentence the fifth where he goes on trial for servs in l.a., does hunter immediately appeal? when does he serve a sentence orntence oul is dad come in com? i don t think his dad is goinggo to do anything before the election because he doesn n have to. if there is a sentence that is imposed that calls forsentence some jail time, even a small amount, the defendant has the right to request the appellate bail. it will probably be granted. so he will not bte have to serve any any jail time. and, of course, joe biden cane n wait until the end of his term or he can commute a sentence. who knows? joe s changed his mind. we don t even understood d. tingtion but, you know, it s very interesting. i just want to say one thing. you know, that whole t the bidet family stood there and sat there in the front row with thi ins united front. you know, we love hunterd ever and every one of them is negatively impacted by huntem har biden being a crak addict and getting a gun. but in addition to that, everyonen to is part of thatha united front was getting money fromfr what you call the crimewl family from all over the world. everyone got some money from anl llc. so that family is nolct what the appear to be. and i think that the jury saw right through it. ju, nullificationti this guy. this is a very easy case. s s within whichhe they brought back this verdict tells me that they weren t pulling any punches. thi why do you think the president of the united states at a time like think unites when his son has been convicted of a serious gun charge that could have wound up havinga se a kid it fromth the trashcan and maybe shoot himself or his sister in the headnd may? e why doesn t he say anythingt contrite like my son made a mistake or i m sorryjust that we re putting the country through this? just a gently worded phrase to show the american people that the family takes ftr some responsibility and has some remorse because hunter biden was considered the prince in delaware. everyoneed the princ called himd he s never been held accountable for anything. he s don anythinge. he s 54 years old. right. in addition to that, they d admt have to admit the hypocrisy, because within hours of this sentencesy, joe biden was sayinr we ve got to have stronger gun laws. we ve got to make sure thesewe f guns are secure and kepte in safe places. i mean, come on, tell that tmeao your son. judge jeanine, we ll see you onn rrow the five tomorrow.. no more tries for a while or out of trials. i don t knowor what i m going to do. what are we going to talk about? i ll see you tomorrow. see you tomo. congressman james comer joins me now. all right. songressmas comer jo, congressme actually sent referrals to garland, the attorney general, on perjury because h depoied to you guys in a sworn deposition. so he s got a lot hanging over his head heron.t e. shak how do you think that s going to shake out in light of this conviction? f thiswell, it s it s more problems for hunter biden. loo wel fork what hunter bidd in his deposition is he clearly lied. and why dition is hed he he lien to protect joe biden. but the fact that he lie d under oath is clearly perjury. this will be used to determine his sentencing. so not only do you have the gu so nn clear trial where he clearly lied on a gun application, the jury saly w right through that. now he s got his tax evasion charges where we know he didn ta pay his taxes. we know to this daxes,y, yethi he hasn t paid his taxes. his taxes were paid years latesr by a major democrat donor, kevin moore, prior to the presidential election to help alleviate a problem joe biden haa probled in the presidential election against trump. so this what we ve done with the criminal referrals, as you know, is the first step. errals ait s just the beginning. but it s a major problem foror hunter biden and it s going accu to be taken into account when it comes time for his sentencing. ann it thow do you feel as an investigator who cracked this case i wide open with the lapto, followed every lead as far as you could? ran into some roadblockse and they re only focusedar on a narrow tax delinquency and a a gundn charge, which they hade bs to prosecute because he had pictures of it all over the internetd pictur. how does that make you feel? well, justice has not been served. justice will not be served until the department of justic l noe takes into account all of the financial crimes that the fina biden family committed. w it wasn t just hunter biden. it was alsasn t io joe biden am biden. the entire family benefited from the biden the influence. peddling scheme. we had three people testify who were onc he partnersn with hunter biden in these schemes. they testified under oatinh that the bidens were selling the biden brand. big access tolin joe biden. there was never a legitimate business. we know from the irs whistleblowersr a they never ps any taxes on the tens of millions of dollars t they took from our adversaries around the world. we have laws in congresshe where i am right now that prevent people from doing this. froms.d the foreign agents registration act. it s called the foreign corrupt practices act. wen know that the bidensviolat have violated these law. so untiled the department of justice takes the real serious crimes into account, reale has not been served. if i listed the top ten crimese that the president sona committed, lying on the gun application wouldn t even makegn it so true. iunter biden taking the fall to save his dad? well, it sure lookthats like th, he, and he looks like someone that s got a pardon in his back pocket. you knows back pt., people ask e well, will the president pardon hunter biden? well, they re not finished. the department of justice isn t finished with him. first of all, they got this this tax n evasion trial.t th then they ve got these criminal referrals. and as i v crimine said many timeshed. over the past week, we re not finished. the criminal referrals were just referrals the beginning of the accountability phase. we ve gonewe ve go through great lengths and we ve been very transparent and substantive with the american peopleth about the money this family s taken in. we ve been very transparent about the 20 shell companies, the llc, that ththe e bidens hah that appear to serve no purpose thy. r i n to launder moneer and when i say launder, i m using the word that six different banks usedg in those suspicious activity reports. th money to tenbiden different biden family members. and according to the irs whistleblowersfa , they never pay any taxes. and you re still looking at new bank recordand you s thae just gotten your hands on. yes, we found new accounts ery day. all right. thank you very much, james comer. keep us posted. j thankmer, hyou.s secret let s bring in former white house press secretary and outnumbered co-hoseight kelly mcinerney. how do you think president biden is feeling toda bid y? oh, i imagine it s prettybecs rough because there has been reporting for a yeare evlus jesse saying that every single day he has been following hunter biden and the lega hs bel matter, so mucht that aides will bring it up to him and he will kinto himd of erupt. so aides kind of tiptoe around him. they don t wanf tiptoe at to bra poen though it is a live political story, one that wewhie talk about often. and the white house press briefing there was supposed house one today. there wasn t one. t i imagine they didn t want to field questions on this oneae so i imagine as a father, thisa is a tough moment. ab doesn t even want to talkughe about the politics of this, but he ll have to at some points . but the verdict does contains the potential thrust into his own personal o and financial affairs, and so do the tax charges. they have been walled off from anything against joe biden. so at the same time, as distraught as he is about co his addiction and his conviction, he must feel politicallnv musy insulated froy future exposure. i think he does. look, i think i would be stunned, jesse, if hunter biden did not take a plea deal ahead of the tax charges. really, that is tax c where you start getting subpoena power. yes, that is where you start thg subpoena power all over all of these bank accounts accou that combentr is talking about.b he subpoenaed them on the congressional level, but they start cominpo on g in o a live court case. there is simply no way livwhen they allow that to go to trial when they know they ve got to your point, iw they v tf yout want to pardon hunter, you ve got a commutation in your back pocker, youat. r pa you re either going to be a lame duck president or a second term term president. more likely the first. his son he s going to pardon his son. his son is going to takeon i a a deal. i would be stunned if he allowed that and he would take a ple and he wa deal to serve any time, because, remember, in thected serving time first plea deal that blew up. hk yeah. look, i think he learned a lesson. learned a d his hand. today. the facts are supposed to match the law in ordere s arh to getin a conviction. this was a slam dunk case. thw. acts match the la. he lied on a gun form. tax evasion. either you paid your taxestax e you didn t. in his case, he didn t. this is a slam dunk. if he would have taken a pleawoul deal today, it would have been much better for him when itld came to sentencing, would have gotten a much lighter sentence. so why would you note gott do that with the tax evasion where it s slam dunk? right. jesand right before the secod presidential debate, when everybody in the country really starts paying attention. all right. kayleigh mcenany has never broken a law in her lifepayingk have a great night. never. thanks, jesse. ssbreaking news on one to the ballot stuffer. straightstht a aheadhead. and iy it s news. ome, or it s news. ome, or as i was saying in the navy, the toughest job in the navy is a naearnife. and if you ve made the deployments and you ve been the wife at homeor a va or youn the spouse at home, you understand what i m talking about. your spouse has earned the right to apply for a va home loan. home loan. you to borrow up to 100% of your home s value. so if you re in a situation where you needke newda some help financially, give us a call. no one takes care of veterans like apparen new da it s a parent, not me. nice going, though. nice going, though. nothing likes in a little confidence boost to help ease you back into the dating scene. the dating scene. that includes having a smileice you feel good about. fortunately, aspen dental specializes in dentures and implants made just for and implants made just for you and with flexibl ,you don t need to sacrifice ,you don t need to sacrifice quality work for a price 1 that fits your budget at $0 is is 0% interest if paid in full in 18 months. helping our patients. but their best smile for it. it s one more way. aspen dental is in your corner at best due credit. we know running a business takes everything you have and only a certain kind of leader has what it takes. every new challenge is yours to solve. and there s no such thing as off the clock. you carry the weight of the problems, but your resolve never wavers. no one else can do what you do . we know your drive. we know your determination. you ve come far enough to know successes for those who take it. is due credit funding? 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house. no they didn t bring back the trans flasher. it was juneteenth.nth, n nine days early. it s a celebratione days of the of slavery after the civil war. so the event is meant to be energeti tc, even though it s not but sleepy. j. e to his name for nearly a minute, joe biden froze like he was in the trump courtroom . watch this. i think this is a black book on the class. must ve come out with it. i mean, this is a black book] on the court. that s too big a shout right now. what about even though i see a smile, i know how to smile, even though i. but not people that voted party had to look up with you. but now i need to say about this. i would hate to see it the same up here, but it s so much better. bring a smile. it was so uncomfortableeo that george floyd s brother philonisrgfloyd e had te the president one of those. you re right, bro. you good? does not and snapped joe out of it. no matter what, you don tf it get it handed down. what is it? o then biden had to speak. hourank use wordsand even. 24 hours later, we still can t decipher. they re all ghost and new guards trying to take us back. well, there are taking away your freedoms. make it harder for black people to vote. t harder fwell, have your vote . you can believe it. banning books about black experiences, the myths openly as well. your grandmother, juneteenth . she knows laws. she knows the laws as nine. fro he s jetlagged from france and tormented over his son s triace and tr hil. be he doesn t want to be at a juneteenth party, and it shows r the man with the nuclear codes is cracking. it wasis crackin the biden admin who made juneteenth a federal holiday, and they re not even celebratinth federalholiday g i. what the heck is going on here? rea new poll shows how much how black americans distrust the biden government muc. three quarters of black americans believe that policelie do little to stop guns and drugs in black communities, aka. they want more thorough police work. over half of black americans think the government encourages single motherhood to eliminate k the the need for black men. and over half of blac.keve th americans believe the government promotes birth control and abortion to keepof t the black population small. the founder of planned parenthood, sanger agrees. what do you know? black and white americans both think biden s government s deviousls bothiny corrupt foundn of conserve the culture. mikayle tha montgomery joins us now. mikayla, have you ever seen anybody celebrate juneteenth like joe bidene joe? ver seen i ve never seen a more lackadaisical celebration whene it comes to my people. s so, no, not at all. abl right. well, are you worriedooke about the president? because it looked like for a second there he forgot he was alive. i m definitely worried. about the president s cognitive abilities to lead this country. when you look at everything that s going on internationally, i don t know how i could feel safe livini how fg in a countre my president doesn t seem to even know where he iss no, lc alone be able to keep track of everything that s going on in the worlerythingd. la these poll numbers, i m so bead we showed them, because a majority of black americans believe police don t do enouge the mah to keep gunsrs and drugs out of those communities. in othe our words, they want more aggressive policing. they want police to do a good job to have the resources and crack down on crimvee. that s what republicans and all americans have been sayingthat s across the country for years. nr yeah, i never thought the defund the police movement made tt s sense because, i meaa when something happens, who else are you going to call? soppenu go and even here in atlw have a public training facilityl being built so that we can better train our officers bed give theanm the resources that they need to better serve our communities. so, yeahtt, it is, you know,, yo pretty interesting how now everybody s more so shifting to something that was originally conservative valuat e as i was telling one ofr, my friends earlier. there s no reason why the hoodad was the hood when your grandma was a child. and it looks like it s still going to bks le e the hood whenkids h your kids have kids. you know, these people are tired of seeing their communitieave kids s rundown.in they re tired of seeing addiction take over. you know ke, their loved ones.. so, yeah, they they would encourage that. the taxe yeas that they pay go o better law enforcement, to better policies and a better communitrcement,y relations.s. black americans getting tired of joe biden in the democratic party: blacs. tk why do you think it s taken until now, until right afters te the trump presidency and four years into the biden presidency until no theen presiw, for blacs to say, hey, we re not wedded to the democrat part are y. e have we have been for decades. i mean, one of the first thingsf is, of course, joe biden telling us we re not black if had a we don t vote for him, that a lot of us like. what do you mean i m not black? so, you know, that started l to raise a lot of questions. but then, of course, you know, but e of thes noth to economy is not helping. everybody s really frustrated with the fachelpiny is frut tha. three jobs to pay one mortgage. so, yeah. my all right. mikayla, do you like my pink tie? getting a lot of complimentsg a i love it.ow you know, the pink is my thing. that s right. real men and women wear pink. mikayla, have a great night. igr eight isis fighters caught and released by the i w biden administration at the border right bacasd k. that was fish in the. i don t care if we ever come back that i always remember the fun we had. i love fishing with them. ps and i love fishing with them. ps and now through june c 14th, save 1% on that favorite gift. special father s day gift card really s, past projects, and cabela s. i never knew your cat was sop . cuddly, right? she really loves these she really loves these delectable squeeze up treats deliciously delectable, delectable. you re hilarious. delectable squeeze up deliciously delectable, delectable. introducing new advil, targeted introducing new advil, targeted relief th. the only topical pain reliever with four powerful pain of p that start working on contact to target tough pain at the source for up to 8 hours of powerful relief. new advil targeted relief. this is a premium hand-selected bacon wrapped mignon that s aged for tenderness and trim to perfection. this is a necktie. what do you think dad wants for father s day? 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my secret luminol whiteningth strips. i mean em more ofte that is whit. and because there s no sensitivity, i feel like i canrt use them more often. and you can get this th . but the seat.is the seat is leather and we get it. you love your bike. we do too. we do too. that sinds me the brushstrokete number one motorcycle insurer. but do you have to wedge it but do you have to wedge it into everything? this reminds me of my bike.obles look out of brushstrokes. yo tank. i had no idea this waurs fre a motorcycle exhibitguve had t three called gutters can cause big problems fast. big problems fast. until nowon my po call it three three lee filter today for your free gutter inspection. i ve had terrible floodinganen problems on my porch. ution, right now lee filter is offering a free inspection is offering a free inspection on your schedule lee filter is a permanent gutter solution so you never have to worry about costlyil damage from clogged gutters again. call us today and scheduleter.co your free inspection to schedule your free inspection. calling three three lee filter today or visit lee filter icon. the dentist s office just lost my crown, but that s not what concerns. it s that they have my social security number the dmv that hasn t updated their computers since they were invented. next has two forms of my i.d. and the online pet store that was breached. if my payment information. think of all the places that can expose your info. lifelock monitors millions of data points for identity theft. if there s a problem, we fix it. guaranteed. fox news alert. eight illegals with suspected asis ties crossed over the border and into the country. ice just arrested them in philly, l.aborder. and in ner new york. national correspondent bill illusion has the latest. onal billbill. well, jesse, a federal source nath knowledge to this case tells fox news that eight nationals of tajikistatin with suspected ties to ice weres all arrested by ice and thise fbi s joint terrorism task force in recent days. as you said in new york, philly and right here in los angeles now, tajikistan is over 7000 miles away from the southern border. and fox is told that all eight of these tajik nationals crossed illegally into the u.s. and received full vetting by dhs during, which time we re told, no derogatory information on the awhich m was flagged. we re told potential tiesd. to terrorism and security concerns flagged later on after they were apparently released into the u.s.. in a joint statement to fox.b news, the fbi and dhs confirmed the arrest, saying in part the, as the fbi and dhsy have recently described in public and partnein pubr buls ,the u.s. has been in a i heightened threat environment. the fbi and dhs will continuei n working around the clock with our partners to identify, investigate and disrupt potentiatifyl threats to nation security. now, you might remember back in april, fbi director christopher wray told a house subcommittee that the threats against house i us have increased since israel was attacked by hamasl on october 7th. given those calls for action, our most immediate concern has been that individuals or small groups will draw some kind of twisted inspiration from the events in the middle east to carryation frevents i out ate at home. r: and and jesse, the fbi, dh ts and or sources haven t said when and where these eight tajikistan nationals crossed our southern border, but our sources tell us they did cross illegalls y. they were not visa overstays. this is exactly what people have been worried about. sure is, bill. unbelievable. is,th thanks for that reporting. yeahank yo, the election is lesc five months away and the mediato thinks the most important question about the last election is thisabout th . n as a journalist, as an american, what do you think is the most important question that needs to be answeren d froo both candidates who won the last election? yeah, very simple. yeah. and won the last election. let s just let s just let s discust tes and debate and we ll see. i mean, look, it s been aske d by donald trump. he refuses to answer it correctly, but we ll see what he does when he s givenans that opportunity in front of 140 million people. you know, it s a littlelion different on a stage like that. stephanopoulos thinksr 5th is november 5th is a referendum on january sixth. ndum on also, rachel maddow ths trump s going to put her in internment camp. p she s saying this i m worried about the country broadly. if we put someone in powecour who is openly vowing that he plans to build camps, to hold millionss to of people, forconvn that matter. what convinces you that these missive campces theses he s plag are only for migrants? so about me, worriedgr but only as much as i m worried about all of us. anyon don t flatter yourself. if anyone s going to a camp, it s acoste a campa that only w. mondays is not like anybodyso miss her. no one s sending anybody to camps. ne is sendyou silly goose, excer our sons and daughters. so we can get some peace. quiet this summer. this preemptive strike against the next trump presidency is nothing compared to the preemptive strike againsthe ne t the supreme court, which has been relentless and vicious, includinsupreme g everything frm triggering armed psychos to hunt down justices to flagging recusal from the trump cases. is the goal secondarily, to delegitimize the cour t? so t the trump opinionstr are discredited. the latest dirtyump op trick, a liberal activist went undercover and secretl ye recorded justice alito and his wife during a private event. sh she pretended to be b a conservative and tried to baiting the justice intolous. saying something scandalous. watchwatch.. beke people in this country who believe in god have gotn our to keep fighting for that, to return our country to a plac a placee of godliness. oh, i agree with you. i agree with that. i support the george ruling by god. i support like i have verye brid i don t know how we bridgege that gap. i w you know, like, how do weis get people squeezed? i wish i knew. i would say i don t know. it s not i don t think it s something we can do to do anything. - i mean, we have a very simple, defined goal. we need to do our best to dos nothing controversial here about alito s answer. ia he doesn t think we re goingge to be able to change pro-choice people s mind, and he thinks weigio should have more religion in the country. o what?e but the media seized on it as disqualifying. we know alito is essentially a fox host on the court. new developments about supreme l court justice samuel alito s compromised ethicsop and open support and comfort with extreme far right cause ans formeres presidential candidate vivek ramaswamy join ers now.i did no i didn t think they d have this kind of dirty tricldk in theirg bag, but they re going undercover now. what do you think rcover ns viv? well, look, the reality is this radical left will stop at nothing to implement their agenda. yesthing to, they will go thh the law system. they will go through prosecutorial system s. stems, they will go through the financial system, and they will go through administrative agencies tial systhroughministr but the reality is thee am american people are seeing through the force that they have putericin up. and you fool me once, shameon on you. fool me twice, shame on me you. most people in this country now understand that the media s histrionics countrunderstas aren more extreme because they realize the people aren t falling for it they rea. but that s actually going to backfire, i believe, heading into november. and i m fine e headembe with undercover journalistic tactics. that s been bread and butter founournaliseen brear for decad. but it s not like a big exposé. if he likes god and doesn t think he can change the minds of pro-choice americans. lik and earlier, i want to getg your take on this because we had some breaking news i earlie. the big one, hunteramerican biden found of three gun bre felonies this morning. in delawar e and could be facing up to two years, possibly more,y in prison if m judge no ricoth sentence him that way. what do you thin k this is going to do to the biden campaign? ii well, look, i think there snk a couple of things going on here, jesse. i actuallycouple g think thisd particular trial and conviction is a bit of a farce. s ofit s a bit of a feignedo th retreat. note the timing. it came right after the trume tp trial and the trump verdict. the purpose of this is ine the public eye to actually eye legitimize the trump conviction. it s also designed, to legit too attention away from what they should actually going be going after the biden for which is selling off our foreign policy to make their family plae rich in places like ukraine, where hunter biden has in no business serving on the board of burisma, a state affiliated energy b company, which happens to beou the same country that we re non sending $200 billion of american taxpayer money to. so that s what this is aboubt . it s a bit of f a deflection all against the backdrop that these are federal charges nst thl charge when his father is the sitting president of the united fas thythose n absolutel pardon those actual convictions. convictionrd not fall fo that trick. and i think that s what this is really about. timing is everything: timingeryd in life. vic, thank you so much.hank have a great night. you too. wanda is back every body wanda is back every body weight and body, you know, th siri, a city client, uses citi s financial expertise to help drive its growth and keep its supply chain moving. moving. so more pet parents cand. get everything they need right when they need it. keeping more pets and families happy for the love of moving our clientrping)s for, . for the love of progress. well, this isn t going to work. try this. this will work. score, pick up score at walmart features like the people they re made for are meant to move groundbreaking. targeted compression and an anatomical design for a custom like fit all backed by a lifetime guarantee 15% off your first order at features .com. hello i m former arkansas governor mike huckabee. a lot of times you can t control the amount of sleep that you re getting. you can t fall asleep or you re tossing and turning all night. you can t get the sleep. you need to stay healthy. i know it s scary unless you use relaxium sleep relaxium. sleep is a product that s made from natural ingredients and it usually works from the very first night. you try it. it helps you fall asleep, stay asleep and wake up refreshed, earning your body those quality hours of sleep that it desperately needs. join the hundreds of thousands of people who have experienced the relief and health benefits from getting a great night s sleep and get relaxium sleep. the first time i took relaxium and i slept through the night, i thought, wow, this worked for me. i could not believe it. relaxium sleep is studied, tested and designed by a neurologist to help you fall asleep faster, stay asleep longer and wake up refreshed. relaxium sleep worked from the very first night i took, i had more focus and mental clarity than i ve had in years. relaxium is drug free and not addictive, so you can take relaxium every night and never worry about side effects. and the best part is it can start working from the very first night when i take relaxium sleep, i sleep better than i have in years. i wake up feeling like i ve had the best night s sleep. stop being afraid and start sleeping your fears away with relaxium sleep your body and your mind. well, thank you. mike huckabee is so confident that relaxium will work you. he s asked us to give away 1000 bottles. if you re not getting calm enough to go to sleep, take relaxium sleep. i promise you it ll work. get your risk free bottle of relaxium sleep now. it s guaranteed to work your money back. visit. try relaxium rt.com or call 889 eight 9322. that s try relaxium dot com or call 808 nine eight 9322 when you can watch. listen. get the latest news business and news headlines on sirius xm. any time anywhere. fox news audio on sirius xm america is listening. jesse watters saying what most want. 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[sfx] ambient / laughing. so do your thing like a pro pain free absorbing pro. fox news alert. wanda has been arrested. the democrat operative on cameraught allegedly stuffing ballots in bridgeport, connecticutcaugh last year was charged with unlawfully possessing another person s ballot and witness tampering. but this has nothing to dosti with her alleged stuffing in 2023. this goes all the wangn 2023y back to 2019. wanda was arrested for ballo tt. fraud in the city s 2019 democrat primary for the same candidate helped elect in 2023. mayor joe ganim. accus wanda is accused of filling out someone s absentee balloint telling them to not vote in person and then askingn themtell to not tell investigators about what she said. wanda isn t the only democrat arrested for fraud. were three other bridgeport democrats were charged. one of them is a citycoun councilman. wanda has been suspendedcilmanit with pay from her city job for months. she works for the front des k for the mayor that she got into office. fox 61 reporter matt karen paid mayor joe a visit today. watch watch this. we d like to talk with theth w mayor aboue h tht some of the cf workers being arrested for election fraud. raud hi, i m. i ll be right with you. thanks. we waited. fast. orward rep we wait mayor ganim didn t want to talk to us. but as 2019 and 2023 mayoral opponents did well, i always felt liknde i had been cheated.i i didn t know the depth of it.ei we caught it live on video directly from city hall. the players and the actors remained the same. reporten saymoore and joh they believe they should be occupying bridgeport says corner office. well, actually, i m going down to city hall until joe can. get out of my chair. hmm. candidates were cheated. voters don t trust the system. h this is why you need squeakyeaky clean elections every time. we need everyone to locked up before november. a cleveland woman was in court yesterday forold bo the murder of a three-year-old boy and attempted murder of the attee s. what she did next was disgusting. t seniorn co national correspondent kevin corke with more. rke with morkevin, even evening. you know, sometimes it really takes every ounce of youy ouncr being to not sayty what you really want to say about a person because a it woud be profane or perhaps even worse, which is why tonight there s precious little i canbia say about bianca ellis. she is that cleveland woman who e.t cls charged with killig a sweet three-year-old little boy named julian wood and for stabbing his mother, margot. but if you thought she d or show any remorse for the crime or any ounce of humanity or regretf humani, you d be sadlyee mistaken. because at her arraignment yesterda at arraigy, she did noh thing. in fact, she did the opposite, smirking and preenind th g the cameras without a care in the world. a vulgar, repugnantworl of sr evil. none of this, frankly, should have happened in thenone ove fid place, because ellis already had a warrant. becaus warrane of a theft conviction. and though she d previously been taken into custodoughy copa she was later released. then just four days later,te she s little julian to death and wounded his mother, margotdo . authorities are calling it a random act of violence forauir has been set at $5 million. really with no bail period at extended to the next one, that possible violence that you can at the very least stay wherever you can to keep this monster behind bars. boy, your heart really goes i out to that dad there. now, to top it all off, back in february, ellil ofs, who also hs a felony battery rap on her jacketry wra, ended up in a woms shelter and allegedly told officers there she wanter and to kill someone and eat their flesh. flesh.f convicted in this case,d she could face the death penalty. jesse. and some argue that s not tha enough. back to you. not enought . e chai give her the chair twice. yeah. kevin, thank your . t hank y more prime time ahead. general we have something. what is it? 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sean: unfortunately that is all the time we have left set it on dvr so you never ever miss the episode of hannity monday through friday 90 eastern let not your heart be troubled because greg gutfeld is standing by the idea to put a smile on your face next. [ cheers and applause ] greg: i expect nothing less. happy tuesday. historic day for the first time ever hunter biden did not to get off. found guilty of 3 felonies facing up to 25 years behind bars the good news if he goes to prison his family visits and conjugal visits could be done at the same time unlikely maximum sentence since his first conviction community services likely he shown a interest in working with unwed mothers not the kids. biden froze for 30 seconds at white house event calling it the longest he is gone without saying something stupid he then exchanged of fist bump his hand it should heal in 4-6 months. s&l talking with the biden campaign to reach voters biden s campaign raiders are asking s&l to write comedy. aoc and rachel maddow claimed if trump elected they will be locked up even more terrified is the view of going to fat camp. researchers using ai determine elephants call each other by names in their own language i thought we already knew that. trace gallagher shannon bream the canadian cancer society apologized for using cervix instead of the trends friendly front hold. not to be confused with the word ass hole. south dakota governor kristi noem says trump choosing a woman vp would help in wynne especially if he needs help shooting bleep bleep and books mentioning butts and farts can t be banned in public libraries good news for my new book. you know it s coming. you know it s coming. so prior to a jury finding biden guilty and has gun trial as defense found an unlikely ally the second amendment the thing democrats hate more than they hate soap. last week in a last-ditch effort hunter asked that as the questionnaire he said violated second amend meant rights of the argued the question asking if he was a drug addict was unconstitutional in the state had no right to infringe on his second amendment s rights just because he did a little dope and buy a little dope i don t mean george stephanopoulos i mean so much coco scarface would ve recommended rehab. is still the defense has a point so why is it unconstitutional well they argued historical intoxication statutes can t stretch far enough to justify disarming a sober a citizen based on past drug use and that i m sorry but make sense is a constitutional for the government to remove the secondment meant rights of a person based on an the conflict let s forget about hunter the same law would borrow wounded that who uses cannabis for pain from exercising his right to self defense imagine a person in recovery who now owns guns should he go to jail never mind the ruling people from going to treatment or seeking mental health help i need it. now did hunter break the law sure but it s an unjust law you can disagree with me you are disagreeing with the second amendment it shall not be infringed but if that sounds familiar to you then you must be paying attention to our very own kat timpf rolled the flashback flashback dude. you can make the argument and said this is unconstitutional because the second amendment doesn t have an exception in for if you re addicted to something you can make the argument that is secondment meant rights are being violated which it would be funny to see joe biden asking the court to make that argument her next book now the rules say estate you should only applied for me during the monolog but her next book should be called how i tried to keep hunter out of jail but imagine that the sun of a democrat president suddenly puts on an nra part saying politics makes strange bella bedfellows but for the second amendment s state i daresay get hope hunter were a condom because i don t want that getting genital warts. so while the verdict maybe bad news for hunter it s also bad news for the second amendment he was found guilty of being in possession of a firearm as a drug user or addict but there is many americans who fall into that category. but it offers trump a golden opportunity to condemn it but the democrats in a box if trump calls unconstitutional the democrats agree suddenly they are on the side of the second amendment but if they don t it forces them to applaud the guilty verdict of the president sent i bet his dad would love that what if the commander dims commander and soiled briefs he said he wouldn t pardon him but the odds abide in remembering that are the same as michael loftus wearing underwear it s a headache for joe but that assumes he has feelings about the neckline hears him at an event last night. was that joe or a statue of joe. if he was any more frozen maas protesters would ve spray-painted on his face. at this point the best they could do for him is unplugging with 5 minutes and reboot before calling tech support you want to hear something worse years joe today had a gun summit gun-control summit talking about you gun owners. by the way they want to take on that if we get out of line mr talking about they need f-15s they don t need a rifle what did he just say i kind of know what he said but still still is not about what you need it s your right to have a rifle this is the guy you believe january 6th was an insurrection apparently we shouldn t worry because he has f-16s or after 15 sees aft up and so his approval ratings dropping faster than his boobs when his bra comes off. even liberal election forecasters suggesting the unthinkable that biden drop out just he did in 1988 democrats what was a marketable candidate michael dukakis he says in biden just hit an all-time low and approval 37% dropping out would be a big risk but there is some threshold below which continuing to run is a bigger risk democrats would ve been better served if you decided a year ago not to seek a second term and give voters a say among the many popular democrats across the country the many popular democrats what i hope he doesn t fill out a gun application soon because apparently he is high as well who do they have this guy it looks like a tennis pro gave the entire country club committed chlamydia like this chuckle monster i ve seen whoopee cushions with more depth this guy s transportation secretary ellie transporter was illegal immigrants on midnight flights talk about a shallow bench they make fox and friends look like the supreme court what does joe think. no no luck nobody steps down i m not going anywhere. if you re going to beat me after run against me and nobody wants to do the right who do they have the california debt guy at the hearing the teeth really when he likes him is him get the vp lady good luck with that mayor gaye judge booty pete he can t beat me nobody respects him and it s not because he s gay either. it s because he s not a real judge let s welcome tonight s guests. she can use to handstands will she grandstands. [ cheers and applause ] he puts the half and half i m homeless michael loftus. her bumper sticker says food is for losers new york times best-selling author and contributor kat timpf and he doesn t wear hawaiian shirts he wears hawaii as a shirt new york times best selling author, comedian and former and debbie way world heavyweight champion tyrus. kat i would go to you first even though you re not a lawyer but i m interested what you thought of the verdict given your verdict feet of fillings on the secondment creek. you know how i feel because we talked about it this morning we also know i agree with everything in your monolog i think that what i read about is the way partisanship can do divide us and convince us to argue in favor of giving up her own rights this is a good example about that because everybody who wants to see the biden family go down i understand where that comes from i certainly think they been involved in corruption i don t think this is the thing to slammed him on because based on the data we do have on drug use in gun ownership tens of millions of americans could be guilty of felonies and faced decades in prison over the exact thing what i argue he was a responsible gun owner i would not but there was no victim here in the law doesn t designate that somebody who uses marijuana who s a veteran or a wounded veteran for chronic pain could fall under this and what you need to do to avoid it having partisanship clad your thoughts is take the biden s out of ask yourself do you agree with and is a constitutional debbie or second amendment s rights which shall not be infringed nothing what so ever do you want that to be up to the subjective standard of what doesn t doesn t qualify as an addict and have the government be the ones allowed to make that determination and the answer if it s no as it is for me then yet to be against us and also even if you like the law if you think it s a great law you have to say he can t really argue it s constitutional there s a difference between a statutory law unconstitutional you can t argue it s constitutional regardless i you feel about it. emily in the greenroom you said you hope biden fries. rereading my thoughts? no. geographic at orgy think it s a different thing how do you look at it. is a great point let s have that is the foundation over which let s put historical statutory applications bottom-line in 1968 the gun control act was passed where congress said you can t possess a gun if you are under the influence of you re addicted to these controlled substances then the controlled substances act which defined what that meant to be omega go for a whole decade here they make gutfeld stop it. the reasons many americans are vulnerable and that hundreds of thousands of brothers and sisters and parents and uncles have been incarcerated is because of those lawes going all those decades back so currently over 157,000 people are incarcerated federally it s a federal prosecution 10% of them second-most is for firearms offences number 1 is drug offences so i also feel when the jury when they were pulled from the beginning they said over half of them direct family members they sought as being 1 more person just that being your last name you won t get away with it i saw them get incarcerated as well i cite taken away also so at the end of the day on the president released a statement saying we love her son were going to appeal and his family in court look so angry i feel it s welcome to the real world there are 157,000 american families going through the same thing right now he just went through today. can i just say some thing superfast i would love to see this actually get overturned on appeal and then it can strengthen second amendment rights for all of us. it would have to be the supreme court like for circuit courts and stuff. greg: you legal ladies pop pipe down i have to get the homeless guy in here. greg: whoa-mac he was she could go to prisons you could have a roof over your head? as a homeless lesbian i do and i realize now that i have developed a cardboard and shellfish allergy so no more sitting around eating clamps from a box. no more freak lamotta juice a want to talk about joe locking up you have to to keep them away from bright lights they are calling them home that s where he went he was just standing there going uncle bo z is that you did the un have an uncle bo z. you can t even clap at that point. as to the gun thing. [ snoring ] it s a good point in its true and is not what i want hunter to go to jail for what about the rest of the. [ bleeps ] laptop. it s like sweet jesus i m tired of the crimes where it s like yet to be careful about pulling that down like when trump as his attorney do something that s 34 felonies that you are slinging guns around high school dumpsters and doing drugs and that s just a 3. it makes zero cents the only thing good about this is a gives hunter a better story when he meets his fellow inmates right if he s like i opened up several shell companies and i was taking money from ukraine and putting that in the shell companies 10% would go to my father you might as well just suck a dude off their. greg: tyrus finish this out for us. he wouldn t to got that far. really disagree with you guys but if you like your examples are flawed like when you talk about the veteran. prescription lead is legal so he s not an addict the skylight about being an addict he s taking controlled substances yet to commit the crime to get it anyhow he is again there s a reason that simply as anybody who lives there it s a reason he was so he is lucky when he left the gun in the car it was someone in his family who got it he lifted there someday took it or there s a reason why we put these things in place of crack was legal he wouldn t be an addict unfortunately alcohol is legal because it was first it s 10 times worse than most drugs but you can drink all the beer you want and say i m not an alcoholic and you aren t lying. he asked if she was asked if he was an addict they check the box and 7000 people testified he lied so. [ bleeps ] send him to jail like the rest of us who commit crimes. crack is illegal. [ bleeps ] you you are going to jail. if you get arrested for a felony you can t vote you can t own again there s a reason for. greg: that was a spirited discussion alright. up next nancy pelosi admits fault in the january 6th assault. have you always had trouble losing weight and keeping it off? same. discover the power of wegovy®. with wegovy®, i lost 35 pounds. and some lost over 46 pounds. and i m keeping the weight off. wegovy® helps you lose weight and keep it off. i m reducing my risk. wegovy® is the only fda-approved weight-management medicine that s proven to reduce risk of major cardiovascular events in adults with known heart disease and with either obesity or overweight. wegovy® shouldn t be used with semaglutide or glp-1 medicines. don t take wegovy® if you or your family had medullary thyroid cancer, multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2, or if allergic to it. stop wegovy® and get medical help right away if you get a lump or swelling in your neck, severe stomach pain, or an allergic reaction. serious side effects may happen, including pancreatitis and gallbladder problems. wegovy® may cause low blood sugar in people with diabetes, especially if you take medicines to treat diabetes. tell your provider about vision problems or changes, or if you feel your heart racing while at rest. depression or thoughts of suicide may occur. call your provider right away if you have any mental changes. common side effects like nausea, vomiting, and diarrhea may lead to dehydration, which may cause kidney problems. with wegovy®, i m losing weight, i m keeping it off. and i m lowering my cv risk. that s the power of we. check your cost and coverage before talking to your health care professional about wegovy®. all these games on directv and no satellite on the roof! think about this: blue jays, cardinals, orioles. what s missing? the andean condor? no, walnut-brain! pigeons! they d rather name a team after socks! to be fair, we re not very athletic. 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( ) at evernorth, we combine medical and pharmacy data with behavioral health data to identify members in need of care. predicting and treating behavioral health issues quickly. while lowering costs for plan sponsors and members. that s wonder made possible. evernorth health services greg: nancy makes a clear will the national guard wasn t near here s footage from januare frozen face nancy pelosi taking response ability for not having the national guard and the capital that day watch. we have responsibility and there wasn t any accountability for what was going on there. we should have. it is ridiculous. they ve already breached should be called the capitol police i mean that the national guard i were they there to begin with. they don t know. they clearly didn t know with responsibility there because it s stupid in a situation like this they thought they had a wet thought they would act as civilized. even with the mask even with the mask she sounds hideous. emily what is going on here why is this out now. why is she taking responsibility for this there is something going on here. her daughter s making a documentary that s part of the file turned over after everybody found out about it the irony is that after the video was released the pelosi spokesperson said 3 years later house republicans are trying to whitewash january 6th it s shameful unpatriotic empathetic what i think is pathetic is the findings from the gop january 6th committee that returned it 10 p findings among them house democrats like speaker pelosi were concerned with optics after the summer of love it so want to the play the national guard being too afraid to have any form of law enforcement ready because they didn t want it to look bad when the streets are being burned down so that s her fault not trump s. didn t vindicate trump called for the national guard. it vindicates trump and that they should release all those january 6th people right now. and i am with you why are we seeing this now. nancy must have felt bad because both claws were going so sober as they had the ability to talk again crap the back of that dan gave terry we other responsibility i don t know how them going to buy stocks and do insider-trading now. it felt like a performance. low me get this straight she knew they were going in the building and did nothing about it locker up. 20 years is what you get. 20 years. what do you make of this iec conspiracy why are we seeing this now? and her daughter is filming this that s what i m struck by her daughter filmed she s making a documentary what s going on with this family like i would give anything a bravo reality show for nancy pelosi s family. greg: it s creepy the january 6th committee as that should be in there but the 2 republicans were. [ bleeps ] republicans. gold the great they saw something and it s going on getting worse we ve got him. they put people s lives at risk to get rid of trump they could have made the call they didn t because that s how we get them that s what it is. another hoax. up next as they declare trump making her scared. on your period, sudden gushes happen. say goodbye gush fears! thanks to always ultra thins. with rapiddry technology. that absorbs two times faster. hellooo clean and comfortable. always. fear no gush. let s get the rest of these plants in. organic soil from miracle-gro has grown me the best garden i have ever had. good soil, and you get good results. this soil will blow you away. it s the martha stewart of soil. scout is protected by simparica trio and he s in it to win it! simparica trio is the first chew with triple protection. whoa fleas! and ticks! ( ) intestinal worms! whoa! heartworm disease! no problem with simparica trio! this drug class has been associated with neurologic adverse reactions including seizures. use with caution in dogs with a history of these disorders. for winning protection go with simparica trio. a story in 5 words. we ll trump send rachel maddow camping. when asked if worried trump could target her she told the reliable sources newsletter worried about the country broadly if we put somebody empower openly of bowing to build camps to hold millions of people what convinces you these massive camps he s planning are only for migrants i m worried about me only as much as i m worried about all of us she should be worried about any kind of camp she would talk about how to build a fire and the history of fire all day long and she would starve to death. the most of boring my goodness i would watch a show she goes to camp but no 1 is going to go to a camp because conservatives don t want to waste of money on rate you have to higher dti counselors and brainwashing people of all spectrums and gavin newsom can t buy a homeless tent for a guy under 500 k know she wants to an episode of naked and afraid i d watch where are my clothes i m rachel maddow i m naked. and afraid. greg:, i like how they think of trump wins their careers in jeopardy their careers explode if he is in power because he gives them so much material it reinvigorates their careers. remember the tax returns they were drawing it out the whole time and it was nothing i remember watching that this you not remember how much fun she had with that also i can t decide if she really believes things are not like it she actually is afraid or just saying that or just thinking about it because i don t know how you could really believe that i think there s a lot of ratcheting up the rhetoric that happens it s ernie been ratcheted up quite high they just had to keep going and then you re not even thinking about it like a lot of the people i talked about who support trump this is top of the list of why is there just like wow this is why i shouldn t. and it sighing objectively stupid. the self-importance is a turnoff to the average person where it s like you really think he s going to take same from you so dangerous he will put you in a cage shut up. greg: it s true it s an ego thing is he is within a hundred to entertainers it would come for me next. no be cares about any of these idiots don t people he watch them are their own echo chamber do you think they will waste time i disagree if you work the first time because people thought there might be true to the russia thing we put up with this bowl. [ bleeps ] for 8 years that s likely going to say now why would else do you have it s passed that they overplayed their hand in their worried about consequences everybody who try to get away with stuff and lied and push false narratives are now afraid they re going to get their comeuppance and they call revenge are gonna me a camp signal you shouldn t be allowed to call yourself a journalist when you peddle lies narratives if anything once he wins where you going to do now because no matter what you do he s gonna finish his 4 years in the winds again absence like always going to lock me up at the celtics when the championship jayson tatum and jaylen brown are going to come to my house and beat me up. greg: by the way how does she think he s going to lock her up like what could be the crime like she leaps from a he becomes president i go to jail she leaves at all the stuff in between i was like is it because she s a journalist like whatever she is i don t know because it s so preposterous and if it s being a journalist but year paolo barack obama if you want to see the high volume of journalists imprisoned it s like they are in a space capsule they haven t evolved so outdated like listening to robert de niro when he was ranting and raving recently the thing coming out of his mouth trump s not going to accept the results fascism and he s wearing a mask is like watching somebody from 2016 and you re like we are so past that i don t know who listens to her but it makes me as lame as it sounds there are camps with millions of people in them and they are in china if i would her i would steward or time and platform a little better because the trump delusion derangement syndrome is stupid and i wish she would use it for sighing actual. greg: well put. maybe they would go on tv and say she has to go oh, no,. greg: coming up a coach to a slam dunk a question which stunk. for my patients. it really works. with fastsigns, create factory grade visual solutions to perfect your process. fastsigns. make your statement™. this is steve. steve takes voquezna. this is steve s stomach, where voquezna can kick some acid, heal acid-related damage to the esophagus called erosive esophagitis, and relieve related heartburn. voquezna is the first and only fda-approved treatment of its kind. 93% of adults were healed by two months. of those healed, 79% stayed healed. and voquezna can provide heartburn-free days and nights. other serious stomach conditions may still exist. don t take if allergic to voquezna or while on products with rilpivirine. voquezna may cause serious side effects including kidney problems, diarrhea, bone fractures, severe skin reactions, low vitamin b-12 or magnesium levels, and stomach growths. call your doctor if you have diarrhea, stomach pain or fever that won t go away, decreased or bloody urine, seizures, dizziness, irregular heartbeat, jitteriness, muscle aches or weakness, spasms of hands, feet, or voice. voquezna can help kick some acid, and so can you. ask your doctor about voquezna. home inspectors, general contractors, roofers; all kinds of pros recommend leaffilter. why? it s engineered for performance. because with leaffilter s patented filter technology, there s no gaps, no openings, no place for debris to get in at all. leaffilter is a permanent solution we install on your existing gutters. you ll never have to climb a ladder to clean out your gutters again. our installation process is simple and easy. just give us a call and set up an appointment today. we ll come out and give you a free gutter inspection. if your gutters are sagging, we ll repair them. if they re broken, we ll replace them. if they re in good shape, our local trusted pros will install leaffilter in as little as a few hours. and the best part? leaffilter comes with a lifetime transferable no-clogs guarantee! you ll never have to worry about costly damage from clogged gutters again! it s peace of mind, and then some. call us today to get started. join millions of satisfied homeowners, schedule your free inspection today! call 833 leaffilter, or visit leaffilter.com it s a video of the day part 2 the race baiting question by a going for grace. it comes from joe missoula 35-year-old head coach of the boston celtics. a sports writer asked him what it s like to be a black head coach in the finals his answer left him speechless for the first time since 1975 you have 2 black coaches in the finals do you think it s significant moment how do you view it. i wonder how many of those have been christian coaches. greg: i haven t heard an awkward silence like that since i showed up at kudlow s house in clovis. enclose tyrus what was the point the journalist was trying to make him what was the point he was trying to make? the journalist come on we need to stop using that term more watered-down than a racist in these days. when joe came and i thought he was too young didn t have experience but then he pulls a stunt like this you heard the race baiting pin just drop and nobody had a follow-up question they re trying to get him a gotcha moment glad to see a brother stand up and say it has nothing to do with my coaching ability or anything it s my work ethic and faith they got me where i was at and just ended it. forget the fact that we are up 2-0. i invaded his podcast dropped a bit and the full went for like it s a bin prank calling him a week but again it goes to the point where most of us just like the funny blackeye get field the skin is knowing to do with character and jokes. some glad her prominent black eyes because a lot of times psycho that school and he said enough of the seas done this before he did with the rowe family is like what was it like sing next to the prince he was like jesus is only king i serve so just murdered them all the time kat as a devout christian and sports however how do the comments make you feel great. like i could be a sportswriter. yahoo sports. i m serious because i could have known he would have answered this way there are a few things i follow lasted then basketball because you know what i did i googled him but to think you re going to go into an interview the same person when asked about meeting at the royal family answered like o chiese as mary and joseph this is a christian man gaia prioritizes his fave talks about his faith you could ve known he would answer this way if you bothered to google so sportswriters don t need to know sports or even pretend to google it if things don t work out here i ll just go to espn i guess. do they put basque ballgames on at the shelter? they do fro chicken wings from a distance to catch me where they actually from chicken? completely rowe seo and have to fight to kill the chicken with your single can of pork and beans the question was crazy is like for the first time since 1975 okay it was settled in 1965 are we seriously arguing about lack of diversity in the nba okay. let s out of the fight arrow lysed trans people having coached a single team in aussie let s get in there and fight for the ball and help me change my address. you are insane tonight mr loftus taking special outrageous bills last to you emily. only because of them. what you think. my point is do your research on the person you re covering but the promise we lived in an anti-christian anti- judeo-christian society is wei harrison becker i would say but to us and i know that s not right why he was vilified for speaking out for his faith at a catholic college in a filet no problem pray for them being a twitter handle when you tragically dropped on the field prayer is only okay when everyone else doesn t so i applaud this coach irrespective a sports team skin color or anything for being a bastion and beacon for being a christian man in the social environment. up next a texas court overrules banning books on butts in schools [ ] nobody is watching the news. [ ] gary: almost 11 on the east coast let s talk about butts and farts ruled houston area schools and libraries kennel longer banned books that mention but and farts like i broke my butt. and larry farley leprechaun. tyrus, are these books a gateway does shakespeare and chaucer? i think this is a gateway for your new tv shows where you have afternoon shows about farts and butts. gary: that s a great idea emily, as an adolescent boy in my past, i loved about farts and butts. if this is what gets a little boy to read, i love it. it is hysterical that there is this category but at the end of the day the ruling that you can t ban the book because you don t want to see the message but you can ban if it s unpopular so for those communities who do not want them to read about butts and farts. trace: my dream is to be number 1 on amazon in the category i don t know if there is a button fart category but i want to be the trailblazer. i m glad this ruling has been made those on staff picking up the slack and you been a way lobbying for this. gary: it was tough. being a homeless guy, you come in contact with smelly butts and terrible farts and that s how i know i m alive but it unites people rather than divides. farts are always funny and as long as they re not teaching little kids sex stuff and those are the books you want to have and here s who s riding these books because i wrote a book doing well at amazon.com because you have to do the follow-up and it s don mcmillan is our whole thing she s written five books exclusively about butts. what s all that about and they all have the pseudo-porn titles that, hey, ladies slow down. we get it. greg: we need a second but. i glued my butt. greg: will talk about that will b e right back. s how do you find the perfect father s day gift? simple. just type wt.com. weathertech has hundreds of premium products that will keep dad s vehicle looking its best. like laser-measured floorliners, cargo liner and seat protector for extra interior protection. sunshade blocks harmful uv rays. the cupfone perfectly secures his phone while driving. order these american made products or a gift card at wt.com. happy father s day. greg: thank you emily, michael and the audience. i love you and good night. [applause] trace: good evening. i m trace gallagher and it s 8:00 and los angeles and this is america s fox news at night. [ indiscernable crosstalk
cultivate the taylor swift voting demographic. this is one of the more popular entertainers musicians, and the world right now and it comes at a time where both candidates are also fighting for that younger vote for the younger generation some trump s supporters may already be skeptical of taylor swift and her politics in january pro-trump broadcasters and politicians put out conspiracy theories implying that the nfl had rig games and favor of the kansas city chiefs to promote swift and travis kelce and give them a platform to endorse president biden, none of which, of course, was even remotely close to being true wealth. how instrumental has taylor swift been in getting out the vote? this is why the biden and trump campaigns both want her on their side, wolf last year in september, she put out a message on instagram asking young people to register to vote according to tracking agencies. as a result of that in just one day, about 35,000 people registered to vote. that s how much sway she has especially among younger voters, turn biden both desperate for that demographic. very interesting guy, brian tied reporting for us. thank you very much brian. i m wolf blitzer in the situation room thanks very much for watching. the news continues. next on cnn leader is reportedly caught saying we have the israelis, right where we want them a federal jury hands down guilty verdicts for hunter biden on all three counts against him making him the first child of a sitting us president to be convicted of a crime the wife of us supreme court justice samuel alito s secretly recorded what she said about the controversial flags outside her home, and the people who criticize to the flying them cnn breaking news but we begin this hour with breaking news a new report released just moments ago from a un commission finds israeli authorities and palestinian militant groups, including mass responsible for war crimes and other violations of international law. the commission has also found israel responsible for crimes against humanity during its military operations in gaza following the october 7 hamas attack. i want to bring in cnn s jumana karachi, who joins us live from london. thanks for being the un says it has evidenced at both israel and hamas have committed war crimes or report just handed down to mount. and what can you tell us? well, linda, this is a these are the findings of the un commission of inquiry on the palestinian territories and israel, this is a body that was set up by the united nations human rights council back in 2021 during the offensive in gaza at the time. and now for the past few months, they have been investigating the events of october 7 and events since they have released to reports, 200 pages long in total so with their findings on both what is happening in gaza during these military operations, as well as what took place in israel on october the seventh. and what they say here is that they have found hamas and six other palestinian armed groups it s responsible for war crimes committed in israel. and they also found that, as you mentioned, that they accused israel of committing war crimes and crimes against humanity during its military operations in gaza. now this linda, they say, is the first in-depth un investigation into the events of october 7 and events since they accused israel of obstructing their investigations, not giving them access to israel or palestinian territories, but they say that this investigation relied on interviews with victims and witnesses. they went through thousands of open source item is that they verified, they say through advanced forensic analysis, they had hundreds of submissions satellite imagery, forensic medical reports. now, when it comes to october the seventh, linda, these are the main findings. they say that these militant groups, hamas and these other groups are responsible for the for war crimes including intentionally directing attacks against civilians murder or willful killing, torture, taking hostages, including children and more. now, these crimes, they say, we re committed by these militant groups as well as palestinians. they say in some instances, in civilian clothing, they identify they say patron s indicative of sexual violence. and concluded that these are not isolated incidents, but perpetrated in similar ways in several locations primarily against israeli women. and the indiscriminate firing of thousands of projectiles against israeli towns and cities. they say that causing deaths and injuries is a violation of international humanitarian and human rights law. then you ve got the report on what is happening and what has happened in gaza during these military operations, there accusing israel of these war crimes and crimes against humanity, including you including using starvation as a method of warfare, murder, and willful killing intentionally directing attacks against civilians, sexual violence extermination, gender, persecution of palestinian men and boys, murder forcible transfer and the list goes on. what they say is when you look at the immense number of civilian casualties in gaza, the widespread destruction they say that this is the result of what they have found to be a strategy to cause maximum damage, disregarding the rules of war, the principles of distinction shin proportionality, an adequate precautions. and what they say is the intentional use of heavy weapons with a large destructive capacity in densely populated areas. they say that you know, all these evacuation orders that the israeli authorities have issued, that that was not adequate, that that was not enough. that they found that civilians as well came under attack when taking these evacuation routes or in designated safe areas and then they go into the humanitarian situation where they say they have found to be a total siege of gaza imposed by israel. and they say that this as what they found here to be the use of the weaponization of aid and access to gaza. saying that this was what is happening amounts to punishment. collective punishment against the civilian population and they also found instances they say a significant number of civilians who posed no threat intentionally killed by israeli forces. and in these cases, linda, we have to mention that they mentioned, they cite to reports that were reported by us at cnn over the past few months. now we have now reached out to the israeli government for comment. but it s worth mentioning here that they have made their position very clear on this commission. they said that they are not going to cooperate with them months ago. accusing this body of being an anti-israel and anti-semitic body, they have had issues with members of the commission. and of course, this is coming we ve seen the tensions rising, the relationship deteriorated between the united name nations and israel over the past during the conflict, as much as israel has come under criticism for its military operations in gaza, it has accused the united nations and several of its bodies and of an anti israel bias and not being fair towards israel. but we will we will continue to try and get more common from israeli authorities today on these findings, linda yeah, we will stay across history or de john monocrop. good to have you with us on this breaking news story. thanks very much we are following more breaking news out of israel, whether military says a large missile barrage has been fired from lebanon towards its northern territory. the idf said about 90 projectiles cross the border in total with some marking fires seen as ben wade, him and following developments for us and joins us live from a root. good to have you there first ben, so they re fighting it. the israel-lebanon border is continuing to intensified is take us through this escalation yeah i mean, what we re what we re seeing is real intensification overnight, there was a strike in the town of zwei. you wear we re hearing reports of four people killed. and in fact his butler on its telegram channel has come out and said that four of its fighters were killed, including a senior commander by the name of tlaib sammy abdullah now, we don t know if they were actually killed in this strike in southern lebanon because his butler never says where they re people were killed. but it appears that this is a is, described as a commander. so in response, it appears hamas has fired a volley of rockets from the lebanese sayyed, where hearing more than 50 the israelis are saying as many as 90 according to the israeli media, it is caused fires in parts of northern israel. now, video has come out on social media showing that most of those rockets fired from lebanon have been intercepted and intercepted presumably by the iron dome system, but certainly what we ve seen in the last week is that his bulla is used because in weaponry that seems to be somewhat more sophisticated last week it appears that they were able to take out one of those iron dome batteries, several days ago, hizballah was able to shoot down a hermes 19 is rarely drone. that s the third so far. now those drones fly at a very high altitude indicating that hezbollah is now using fairly sophisticated anti-aircraft weaponry. twice in the last week, they ve also used anti-aircraft missiles to fire at is israeli planes in lebanese airspace. so although much of the focus of the last few days has been on the situation in gaza and israel. the situation on the border between lebanon and israel is becoming increasingly tense. and there is ever more talk of the possibility of war between israel and his berlin fact this morning, we heard the iranian foreign minister warning israel not to fall into well of lebanon know, suddenly a frightening thought of ben, but i do if weekend for a moment want to turn our focus back to gaza because the fate of that latest proposal for a ceasefire seems more unclear right now, what are you hearing from hamas in terms of baer response to this proposal? well, it appears both sides are accusing the other of rejecting the proposal. now, israel is telling, saying israeli officials are saying that hamas is rejected. hamas has responded saying, no, we haven t rejected it. in fact, is a rich pays a member of hamas is politburo is saying the palestinian factions have responded positively and seriously to the proposal and are accusing israeli media of incitement and attempting to confuse the situation. it s a bit like when you re bargaining in the soup just because you reject a price doesn t necessarily mean you re not going to buy the goods. this is a bargaining, this is negotiations. so at this point, i think both sides are accusing the other of rejecting it, but i don t think we can say that the deal is dead yet. it s just bargaining and we will continue to see what comes out of the next round of mediation band wiedemann forests, covering all those developments. thanks so much. well, hunter biden, the son of joe biden, is now the first child of a sitting us president to be found guilty of a crime after his conviction on three federal felony gun charges the president braced his son off to landing and delaware hours after tuesday s verdict, the jury deliberated for less than three hours concluding that hunter biden violated laws meant to prevent those suffering from substance abuse from buying or owning a firearm and of course, it created an awkward political moment for the us president who just hours after his sons conviction, was speaking at a previously scheduled gun safety event harold, in his efforts to strengthen gumballs and enhance the penalties for those who violate them. well, let s discuss this where the riva martin and attorney and legal affairs commentator, she joins us from los angeles. good to have you with us hi. sorry. i had to buy it and found guilty of three felonies lying to a licensed firearms gun deal. i m making a false claim and a firearms application. and of course, possessing that illegally obtained gun for those 11 days he does face up to 25 years in prison. but could get a fraction of that. what do you anticipate well, one thing we do know is that hunter biden does not have any prior felony or any kinds of convictions on his record he didn t use the gun that he purchased for any crime, so no crime was committed with bad gun. he has been according to reports, clean and sober now for at least four or five years, given that he is likely to demonstrate a great deal of remorse, given the types of mitigation letters and testimony that we will see from supporters and friends. i think he ll get the lowest sentence possible, and i think it s so important to note that this case, the case that was brought against hunter biden several former prosecutors who had been in charge of us attorney s offices said this is not the kind of case that they would have even brought so i think we can t overlook a gloss over the political aspect of this prosecution. so i don t expect there to be any sentence in the range. what s being reported with respect to the 25 years, i think it ll be at the lowest end of the sentencing range yeah. an array that just on that point, as you alluded to people at the bureau of alcohol, tobacco, firearms, and explosives, did apparently say that anyone else would have seen these these charges dropped with this case drop if he wasn t as well-known, just how unusual is it for someone we know criminal record to go to court for an offense like this it s very unusual. i saw some statistic that you ve talked about less than three to 5% of individuals in this situation would have ever had charges brought. and even if charges were brought most likely this was the kind of case they would have resulted in a plea deal, not the kind of case that would have occupied the time and resources that we saw the government put forth and you can t help again, but look at all of the personal and very embarrassing information that was revealed during this trial, it seemed like the trial was about embarrassing hunter biden and therefore embarrassing the entire biden family more so than seeking justice, i was quite surprised. i should say, at the outcome at the verdict by the jury, i thought there would be jury nullification. i thought the jury would look at this and say this just doesn t pass the smell test. there s something blatantly unfair about this prosecution but they looked at the facts and said they put aside of the reality that this was the president s son. and reach their conclusion. and like democrats have been saying throughout the day you have to accept the verdict the jury, and i m prepared to do that, but i was surprised by it of course hunter biden does face and other trial in september over his failure to pay his income taxes during a years-long crack alcohol spending binge. should that case b. of more concern to him? woke absolutely much much more serious case of very easy to prove cases where there are allegations of failure to pay federal income taxes the allegations here is that he failed to pay over $1 million over a three-year period. but i think we re going to see something happened in the tax evasion in case based on what we saw in the case that just resulted in the conviction, and that s probably a lot of testimony about his drug use, about his addiction that probably had something to do played some role in why he did not pay his federal taxes. again, this is the case linda that ordinarily would have been resolved by plea deal and remember, there was a deal that was interred into by the special prosecutor and biden s attorneys that would have allowed for both the cases, the gun charge case, and the tax case to be resolved without going to trial. and so given that it is going to go to trial, the second case in september does tuesday s guilty verdict potentially raise the stakes for any future sentencing? absolutely. yeah. again, i don t think he has much jeopardy when it comes to the convictions today, the nature of the charges, his background, what we expect to see in terms of mitigation however, the federal income tax evasion charges we ve seen very a high-profile famous people serve jail time on very similar charges. so my estimate is that to the extent there is jail time and that hunter biden has to serve any jail time. it s much more likely to be related to the tax evasion case than it is with respect to the gun charge case. right? good to get you on the program or even martin, as always, thanks so much for your time thank you. linda will the new are controversy for the us supreme court one justice and his wife are caught on tape speaking to someone they thought was a religious conservative that conversation next telling me what you want from this want to be a scar, cool to be normal, liked this is waiting for who knows where it traumas you, i will not let you down if i were you know, i ve stopped talking every time i need a new 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today at andy.com well, several critical primaries could serve as a test for the us elections later this year. in the case state of nevada, sam brown won the republican senate nomination, will face off against democratic incumbent senator jacky rosen in one of the most important races of the 28, 2024 election in south carolina scene and projects that congresswoman nancy mace will win the republican primary for the state s first congressional district. that s despite opposition from allies of former house speaker kevin mccarthy, whom she voted to oust nice to feed it to challenges and should be able to avoid a june 25 primary runoff or left activists is just added to the political term. i ll roiling the us supreme court the activist posed as a religious conservative and secretly recorded conversations with justice samuel alito and his wife, martha-ann as well as chief justice john roberts. she released those secret recordings on monday jessica schneider explains what they reveal tonight. no comment from the supreme court after two of its most senior justices and one of their spouses are heard on secret recordings discussing sensitive topics. people in this country, believing god, embedded, keep fighting to return our country a place the bodley names i agree with justice samuel alito speaking to lauren windsor during a dinner last week hosted by the supreme court historical society windsor, a liberal activist posing as a devout catholic when talking with the justice, where he also addresses the current polarization of the country we can go the polar i think it is a matter of like i think you re probably one side or the other side or the other is i don t know i mean, there can be a way of working our way of living together peacefully it s different because there are differences. one fundamental things that really can t comment it s not like we re going to split the difference this society condemned the secret recordings saying attendees are advised not to discuss anything from the event. windsor defended her actions today in an interview with cnn, there s nothing illegal in a dc about recording people so long as one person is a party to that conversation, to people who want to pearl clutch about this yeah. please tell me how we re going to get answers when the supreme court has been shrouded in secrecy. and really just refusing any degree of accountability whatsoever. cnn has not independent candidly obtained or heard the recordings in full, but they come after recent ethics concerns involving the court, including controversial flags flown at homes of justice alito flags that the justice said were put up by his wife martha-ann alito, also heard on the audio for xi addressed the flag controversy head-on. know what i want. i want sacred. heart of jesus glad because i had to look cross the lagoon at the pride flag for the next month. exactly. and he s like, oh, please don t put up a flag. i can i won t do it because i m deferring to you. but when you are free of this nonsense, i m putting it up and i m going to send them most of every day, maybe every week. i ll be changing the flags. windsor also secretly recorded chief justice john roberts, who rebuffed her when she made a case for more christian society we live in a christian nation and our supreme court to be guiding i don t know, that we live. in a christian nation. i know a lot of jewish and muslim friends who would say maybe not. and it s not our job to do that. it s our job to decide i do the cases, especially we have not seen any comment on the secret recordings from the supreme court or from the justices or justice alito s wife. now the supreme court historical society hosted this dinner where the recordings were made. it is a yearly event held inside the court building. were members because of the society are allowed to buy tickets for themselves and one guest. and the gathering provides members rare access to the justices as we saw in these secret recordings jessica schneider, cnn, washington one doesn t his dad and a suspect now in custody following the hijacking of the commuter bus here in atlanta tuesday. well, 30 say they responded to our port of gunfire on the bus when they arrived, the boss took off with 17 people on board that led police on a dangerous rush hour chase through heavy traffic the bus striking several vehicles along the way. when it finally came to a stop, the suspected gunman was arrested on board, plays found a bus driver with a gunshot wound, who later died in hospital. here s what the city s mayor had to say about that harrowing ordeal. no mayor, no, no chief no share if nobody wants to have a day like this, a gunman with a gun to the head of a bus driver saying, don t stop this bus oh else, worst will happen. this is the type of thing is that obviously no one is. i mean, it seems like the movies stood a comment ticking time bomb about to explode scene and gets exclusive access to a camp housing the 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extraordinary access to some of the facilities at those camps. as well as the notorious panorama prison this is her exclusive report and a warning. it begins with some disturbing images cell phone videos of isis is brutal justice that the world hoped it would never see again. she might want him amash shared for the first time with cnn these images or captured in rocco or mosley in 2016 they were taken in 2022 in the al-hol camp in northern syria the sprawling dumping ground for the women and children captured after isis was defeated five years after the fall of the caliphate, isis is ideology lives on here security officials warn it is a ticking time bomb ungovernable and hostile to the outside world. you can see just how fast this place is more than 40,000 people are living here in the most dangerous part. the camp is called the annex. that s where some 6,000 foreign nationals are currently within we were granted exceptionally rare access to the annex by the us back syrian democratic forces sdf, who control the camp the women here hail from more than 60 different countries several raise their right index fingers for the cameras sign of solidarity with the islamic state do you regret your decision to join isis or wash she complains that the conditions in the camp are awful there are people in the world who will say, you went to join isis. you deserve it. you deserve it. what do you say to that? normally if enemy yeah women need me for the majority of alcohols residents are kids who have ended up here through no fault of their own un has called it a blight on the conscience of humanity. it is effectively a prison camp for women and children are arbitrarily and indefinitely detained should to a group stops us with a frantic plea. one of their sons has been arrested trying to escape the camp. she s asking if she can get her son back, who s in a prison the youth mark, we want to just send him out. so the sdf wouldn t take him. she tells us once boys turn 12, here, they take them it is a troubling story we hear over and over again the sdf says, it is their policy to separate adolescent boys because they are being radicalized as by their mothers an sdf raid earlier this year netted this video of a training session for children inside the camp. the sdf claims young teenage boys are married off to repopulate the next generation of isis fighters they say may explain the roughly 60 births recorded here every month this is where some of those boys end up after they are taken the or cash rehabilitation center conditions here are much better than the camps, but there are only 150 beds and they are all full shamil cha car grew up in cologne, germany until his parents took the family to the isis capital rocha. a shrapnel injury to his head has left shamil confused how old are you? chem omitted without if you don t know shamil was living in our whole camp with his mother and siblings until a few years ago when security forces came into their tent in the middle of the night in colombia enough for a man came and pulled me up and tied my hands behind my back. my mom was screaming. she said leave him alone. he tells us i didn t want to go with them. he pushed me saying, put on your shoes, but i didn t hit me islam is from dagestan on russia and is one of the youngest boys here which gives me three to it via mama hey so he s saying that he is just 12-years-old. he has been here about three or four months. he was taken from his mother he doesn t even know what his last name is human rights organizations have said the separations are on a pauling violation of international law but the sds top general muslim abdi defends the policy. no duck ethnic instead of these organizations condemning what we re doing and calling it a human rights violation. these organizations should give us help when it comes to our program that we have in place for years now to rehabilitate these children. but part of the problem seem it s to be that once these young boys turn 18, there s not anywhere for them to go, particularly if they can t return to their home countries and so some of them, i believe are ending up in prison necessity taken when he says, this is not a policy that we are following to put them in prison at 18 the reality is the goal is to reintegrate them with society but cnn has found that boys as young as 14 had been held here at the notorious panorama prison with an estimated 4,000 inmates. it is the largest concentration of isis fighters in the world. no journalist has been allowed inside panorama since 2021 until now so the head of the prison has asked me to put on a head scarf where we walk through here because these are some of the most radicalized prisoners they have a senior us official told us the number one concern at panorama is a prison break the fear that was realized in 2022 when hundreds of inmates managed to escape and i. look inside 25 men sit cross-legged in silence cell is spotless the men, we see appear to be indecent physical condition but tuberculosis is rampant in the prison. and we are only allowed to look inside two cells versus your, where you a british man approaches the great, but does not want to show his face i know advocacy groups called the us funded panorama illegal black hole, worse thing guantanamo bay in an interrogation room. we meet 19-year-old stephane, ucc or lou from suriname. he tells us he was brought to the prison when he was 14, along with more than 100 other miners have you had a lawyer ever you talked to a lot where i don t know about the big guys as we speak about the kids assume. well, if you know the truth, we don t know even my were always like punished as like five years in prison. i were punished we don t even know what he s done. like we ve been imprisoned because of our clients at the sdf intelligence headquarters. we need british pakistani dr. mohammed socket accused of joining isis. he claims he was the victim of an elaborate kidnapping plot. it says panoramas, inmates our abused. so we live in torture. i live in fear when you say you live in torture, do you mean that you are actually physically being tortured? this happens on an off what kind of torture? like beating by the stick? by the gods to be honest, i m just waiting for my death there s no getting out of this prison. probably never the warden at panorama called sockets claim of abuse false, saying quote, all parts of the prison are monitored by cameras and no prison guard can act in this way. the sdf and the us are pushing countries to repatriate their citizens from syria, saying it is the only solution to this complex and dangerous situation. but the process has been slow and many including western allies are dragging their feet in the owl rose can we meet brits, canadians, belgians, australians, and a couple of americans? survive basically 30-year-old hoda methanol has been stuck here with her seven-year-old son for more than five years. i have to ask you, i m seeing all of the women here are fully covered. a lot of them covering your phases you re not covered, you re wearing a t-shirt is that hard it was hard when i first took it. i would say for the first 23 years people would not accepting of it. and they harassed us a lot. they stole our stuff and i had to stay strong and show example from my son, born and raised in the us, hoda became radicalized online at the age of 20, and left her family and alabama to live under isis a decision she quickly regretted if you were to be able to go back to the us and you had to go on trial, potentially serve time in prison. have you reconciled yourself without possibility? i always tell myself that i m going to prison would be a step forward in my life if i had any time to serve, i d server and come out and begin my life with my son for now? that is not an option while the us advocates repatriation, it ruled holders us citizenship invalid on a technicality, but i didn t write now, she lives in fear for her son s future what do you miss most about america i just want to breathe ever i can arrow and be around people. i loved the people of america. they re very open and they re very forgiving and they re very, they re people who gives second chances and i think if they were to sit down with me and listen to my story from the beginning, they would give me a second chance but second chances are hard to come by here for most repentance is demanded and forgiveness rarely given as the cost of ignoring this ugly crisis continues to mount. clarissa ward, cnn, northern syria i m gonna statement to cnn a us state department said the department has not changed its position with regards to miss mu who found a citizen status as the state department to and determine and the courts are grade. she s not and never was a us citizen was sort of calm. the mystery of the north korean football star who went missing three years ago. i need to make a dramatic return now, we ll look at what s going on russian for trying 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shops before being extinguished. already say, no one was injured, but many animals were killed, including dogs, cats rabbits, snakes, birds, fish, and chicken. one pet shop owner says 400 of her exotic snakes worth about $136,000, died from smoke inhalation well, he was once a promising young football star, attracting interest from europe s top clubs. but when the covid-19 pandemic hit north korea s khan kuan song suddenly disappeared three years later, he returned to the football pitch trying to help his country qualify the 2026 welcome. cnn s alloca montgomery explains the vanished north korean soccer superstar missing no more. khan kuan song, the young striker from pyongyang to play for italian giant. your event is against some of europe s elite clubs he disappeared for more than three years after un sanctions ordered, north korean workers abroad to head home playing for north korea against syria, myanmar, and japan. finally, taking to the field again during the recent world cup qualifiers. but the mystery surrounding his absence remains and young hoc, a japanese born north korean former soccer player, who knows and met hahn tells me the striker has extraordinary talent. the two first met in 2019 when khan said he watched on to play for the country a pandemic later, they briefly met again in tokyo just this last march on, encouraged khan to help the team reach the world cup and says he was told by a north korean official that khan was stuck at a north korean embassy in china when the country shut its borders during the pandemic, then we re starting at 20. khan had to train alone for about two to three years, less the timbre i think they let them into the country on is worried the time away from the pitch severely affected the budding star s career, where the goal i feel like he lost out on the chance to grow more at the right age and time when he could have really developed. i think he could have played better. i ve been doing national team matches. it s really regrettable in north korea, sports are popular pastime and a tool for social control, discipline soccer in particular is a fan favorite and draws him thousands of spectators under the watchful eyes of sports enthusiast and leader in java and the kim regime is looking to elevate north korea into a sports powerhouse echoing its 2010 world cup qualification, only the second time it has desso a moment on remembers with pride, saying players were recognized with a certificate and departments and pyongyang. but the country suffered bruising defeats on the actual world cup stage and rumors quickly ensued of the national team facing punished schmidt from the regime, including public shaming, a narrative on strongly denies biotic. it s pretty hard to get information about the democratic people s republic of korea. so there are still stories about people being sent to the coal mine after losing a match or being lectured for six hours. but there are no such stories at all as far as i know, i was on the national team the more than ten years and then never have high hopes for his country men s returned to the global stage once it got khan, can t get back the time he lost. so going forward, i hope it becomes a great player will improve the image of the democratic people s republic of korea s national team with a little getting in or out of north korea. it s hard to know what the future holds for khan, but it s countries attempt to play in the world cup continues hanako montgomery cnn, tokyo we re going to take a quick break. we ll be right back. you re watching cnn as a guide gynecologist, i m embarrassed to say this. we use deodorant on our armpits and we kinda make women feel bad about body odor that they get on other parts of our body. why i created lumi whole body deodorant for pits, privates and beyond. it s clinically proven to block a told her all day controls odor for 72 hours soap can t do that. and since your pits and privates go everywhere, you go, keep them 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at up to 70% or so guilt.com today welcome back. k-pop super group bts reunited just hours ago, but not to make new music jin, the oldest member of the group is discharged from the military after completing his 18 month mandatory service requirement. he was graded by five of his six bandmates south korean media reports, they released their requested leave from their own military assignments to celebrate the occasion jan immediately got in front of the camera on social media. we ve us racking up more than 3 million views performance and fan event to plan for thursday. at age 31, jen is the first member of bts to finish his military service with the ban expected to reunite next year once all members discharged will get your rooms ready. one, a brothers has announced a c-corps to the 1998 hit film practical magic sandra bullock and nicole kidman, stars of the original film are in talks to return for practical magic to a variety reports. the actresses are also expected to produce the 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hamas has not confirmed the claim and said the proposal opens up a wide pathway to reach an agreement. from jerusalem, our middle east correspondent hugo bachega has more. hamas has expressed readiness to reach a deal, but it s sticking to its initial demands, and they include a guarantee that there will be a permanent ceasefire in gaza, and also the complete withdrawal of israeli forces from the territory. now, qatar and egypt, which have been mediating the talks, say they have received this response from hamas, and that they will co ordinate the next steps in these negotiations with the united states. now, the deal being discussed is a three stage plan that was announced by president biden. he described it as an israeli proposal. the first stage of this plan would see the release of hostages being held in gaza, and then pave the way for a permanent ceasefire. now, hamas wants a guarantee of a permanent ceasefire because they fear that once the hostages are out, the israeli military may return to gaza to continue with its military operation against the group. now, the israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu had previously said that israel would not commit to an end of the war without achieving its goals of destroying hamas s military and governing capabilities in gaza. despite prime minister netanyahu s hardline stance that the war will not end until hamas is fully defeated, us secretary of state antony blinken says the plan has israel s backing and that it is hamas who is holding up any agreement to a plan. secretary blinken is in the region for an all out push for a ceasefire in gaza. a day after talks with mr netanyahu america s top diplomat travelled to jordan tuesday for an emergency humanitarian aid conference. while there he announced more than $400 million in aid for palestinians and called on others to provide more assistance. un secretary general antonio guterres also attended, and backed the truce proposal put forward by the us. his appearance came as he released his annual report on children and armed conflict, where for the first time, israeland hamas were added to the list of offenders responsible for violating children s rights. here s mr guterres discussing the crisis facing children in this war. over 50,000 children required treatment for acute malnutrition. and despite the ocean of needs, at least half of all humanitarian aid missions are denied access, impeded or cancelled due to operational or security reasons. the horror must stop. it is high time for a ceasefire along with the unconditional release of hostages. i welcome the peace initiative recently outlined by president biden and urge all parties to seize this opportunity and come to an agreement. and on all of these developments i spoke to frank lowenstein, a former adviser to us secretary of statejohn kerry, who also previously served as us special envoy for middle east peace. i just want to get the latest here on this back and forth on this ceasefire proposal. hamas and the palestinian islamichhad saying that they had readiness to positively reach a deal. they have submitted a response to mediators. we re hearing some reports that they may have rejected it. what are your thoughts on where this all stands right now? the fundamental issue between israel and hamasjust has not been resolved and that is whether this is going to be a permanent ceasefire which is what hamas wants or a temporary ceasefire which is what the israelis are willing to agree to. in effect, what you have is really both sides just trying to shift blame to other side, rather than undertaking any serious efforts to reach an agreement. i think secretary blinken is doing his best to put the onus on sinwar and hamas but it is just extremely difficult to pressure terrorists hiding in tunnels they don t care what happens at the un, they don t care what the jordanians or the saudis or anybody else says and you heard sinwar saying today that he thinks he has the israelis right where they want them. he is going to sacrifice untold numbers of palestinians for the cause. so i think the us is coming to the point where we are at the end of the line for the ceasefire effort. isn t the point then that they can get into a temporary ceasefire that would then perhaps lead to negotiations for what the end of the war could look like? yeah, that is the premise but the problem is that the israelis have made clear in any number of different ways that they have no intention of moving to phase two. they plan for those negotiations to fail at the end of phase one and to resume the war. that is what they keep o saying, we are going to continue to prosecute the war against hamas until we have destroyed them. for hamas, they are just not willing to agree to any kind of a temporary ceasefire and they are not blind here, they understand what israelis are saying, they understand what is really going on, which is this is a short term ceasefire at best for them and i think yahya sinwar does not want to let benjamin netanyahu and israelis off the hook. what about secretary blinken in all of this because he has continued to express optimism that this deal could reach a ceasefire, whether temporary or permanent down the road is thatjust the secretary putting on a brave face? they are doing the absolute best they can. i have been in the same situation that secretary blinken is in right now in 2014 when we were trying to negotiate a ceasefire between israel and hamas and at the end of the day, if we want it more than they do, that he parties have a number of different ways to avoid reaching an agreement so i think the biden administration has done literally everything they possibly could to try to get the parties to agree. it s just that there is a fundamental disagreement at the core of this that remains unresolved and there is really not much more they can do to change that. the key conversation partner in the war cabinet in israel, benny gantz, has stepped down from his position which complicates things. what about where prime minister netanyahu stands because his far right coalition partners have said they will leave the government and collapse the government indeed, if he were to accept the ceasefire deal, but there is popular pressure at home, specifically from the families of the hostages, to accept it. so it would appear he really is in a lose lose situation in many senses? that is a great question. i think his goal is really to have hamas be blamed for the failure of the ceasefire. i do not think benjamin netanyahu really wants a ceasefire. i think he is sort of boxed in a little bit because the us has presented his own offer back to hamas so they are not able to really walk away from it but at the same time they are saying the kind of things that will make it impossible for hamas to agree, which is that they are going to continue the war, no matter what the agreement says. so i think the way bibi is trying to split the difference here is to say yes and mean no and try to keep this coalition as quite as he can so that he can put the blame on hamas. the bigger issue with benny gantz is what is going t happen in lebanon. benny was really a force of moderation inside of the war cabinet and without him there, i think some of the right wingers, smotrich and ben gvir, their voices will get even louder. israel killed a very senior hezbollah commander. if i was secretary blinken i would be very concerned and not just about the ceasefire in gaza but whether they are looking at another war with lebanon. 0ne one last quick question. but pressure can antony blinken still have at his disposal? we possibly played our last card. they threatened to kick out the hamas leadership. if they did not agree they threatened to get rid of the leadership. there are terrorists hiding in tunnels are prepared today and prepared to sacrifice their own people and they will continue to push as hard as they can. i do not think that will ever say we will not try anymore but i do not think they have any cards left. always great to have you on bbc news. thank you forjoining us again tonight. thanks for having me. the son of the us president is facing up to 25 years in jail, after being found guilty of lying about his drug use in order to purchase a firearm. a federaljury found hunter biden guilty on all three felony charges brought against him forfailing to disclose his drug use when buying a gun in 2018. it s the first criminal prosecution of the child of a sitting us president. hunter biden s lawyers say they are disappointed by the verdict and will pursue legal challenges. while hunter could face 25 years in prison, first time offenders typically do not receive jail time. president biden commented on the verdict in a statement saying: while there has been much testimony about the defendant s abuse of drugs and alcohol, ultimately this case was not just about addiction, a disease that haunts families across the united states, including hunter biden s family. this case was about the illegal choices the defendant made while in the throes of addiction his choice to lie a government form when he bought a gun and the choice to then possess that gun. the bbc s carl nasman was covering the trial in delaware. i spoke to him earlier. while we know about how the jury while we know about how the jury reached this verdict? well, we know it came pretty quickly. after a week long trial, so many different witnesses called, so much evidence introduced here it only took them about three hours of deliberation to reach that unanimous guilty verdict on all three charges here in delaware. we also actually been speaking with one of the jurors themselves, we will keep them anonymous and call them during number 10, anonymous and call them during number10, and anonymous and call them during number 10, and what he told us was despite the last name of the defendant in this case, politics did not play a role inside the deliberation room itself stop here are some of what he told us during that interview. he said iwas never thinking of prezza joe biden, even though mrs biden, jill biden, the first lady, was there in the courtroom stop somehow you block it out of your mind. his dad was not on trial. are displayed all the talk and analysis of how political this trial may be, in terms of the 12 jurors, six political this trial may be, in terms of the i2jurors, six men and six women, to them when they were in that room they tell us, at least one juror says it was not a political discussion, this was all about the facts in the case. 50 discussion, this was all about the facts in the case. so much attention the facts in the case. so much attention paid the facts in the case. so much attention paid to the facts in the case. so much attention paid to this - the facts in the case. so much attention paid to this case. . attention paid to this case. what are some of the reactions to the verdict being? the reaction to the verdict being? the reaction is to the verdict being? the reaction is getting - to the verdict being? tue: reaction is getting pretty political, if you talk about the democrats, for a long time they really didn t want to discuss hunter biden and his criminal issues, his behaviour issues, that was something that was a bit embarrassing. now we re starting here more democratic politicians come out and really react to this, one of them, alexandria 0casio cortez from new york said this verdict really does a lot to disapprove former president donald trump ausmat claims of somehow the justice system is rigged against him, is out to get him, prosecuting him in his own criminal trials. she says, hey, this son of the current sitting president has just been convicted of his own crime, that should go a long way to disproving those claims. in terms of republicans, what some of them are saying, has really been a mixed reaction, but they have been trying to link presentjoe biden to his son for a long time, that rhetoric wrapping up again, a trump backer, a potential vice president amongst them, calling it the biden crime family. that is something we have been hearing a lot now today and over the last two years. we have about over the last two years. we have about 30 over the last two years. we have about 30 seconds left. let us know what happens next. we don t have us know what happens next. - don t have a sentencing date yet. that is expected to come in the next 120 days or so, thatis in the next 120 days or so, that is when will find out exactly what hunter biden s f8 will be. we have heard it could be a 25 year sentence, is likely be much less than that. not the end of hunter biden s legal problems, he has another criminal trial in california, thatis criminal trial in california, that is expected to begin in september. that is expected to begin in september- that is expected to begin in september. let s talk more about this september. let s talk more about this now. with me is shan wu, a former federal prosecutor. always great to have you here. let s jump always great to have you here. let sjump into always great to have you here. let s jump into some of the reactions, i saw you wrote a little bit earlier today, merrick garland strives to run the department ofjustice without fear or favour, the department ofjustice without fear orfavour, but the department ofjustice without fear or favour, but the hunter biden prosecutions exemplify him doing both. what you mean by that? you mean by that? merrick garland is you mean by that? merrick garland is a you mean by that? merrick garland is a very you mean by that? merrick. garland is a very honourable man, he has tremendous fear of the department and him looking partisan, probably like a ptsd from the leftover effect of bill barr having looked very partisan as the attorney general. because of that to me and a lot of prosecutors he allowed this case to go forward in a very unusual circumstance, it very, very rare, interactive never heard of it before, for someone to be convicted of this crime, which is lying on the certification for possession of a gun, if the gun wasn t used in any other crime. when we see that from the original attempt to dispose of the case through something like the virgin voyages no criminal conviction at all. that is the sort of fear but, worried about looking partisan so he allowed this to go forward on its own.- partisan so he allowed this to go forward on its own. hold on, because there go forward on its own. hold on, because there was go forward on its own. hold on, because there was a go forward on its own. hold on, because there was a crime - because there was a crime committed here, correct? yes. hunter biden did fill out a form saying he wasn t using drugs and we heard throughout the course of the testimony that he was still in the throes of addiction and did put down on that form that he wasn t when he bought it. correct, es, when he bought it. correct, yes. that s when he bought it. correct, yes, that s absolutely - when he bought it. correct, yes, that s absolutely a - when he bought it. correct, yes, that s absolutely a it s| yes, that s absolutely a it s just one is very rarely charged if the only issue is that the person lied about being a drug addicts and the gun wasn t used in any other violent crime. 50 in any other violent crime. so what you re saying is you think the doj was pushing this case forward to give the appearance of being unbiased? of being unbiased? yes, i wouldn t of being unbiased? yes, i wouldn t say of being unbiased? yes, i wouldn t say garlett - of being unbiased? yes, i wouldn t say garlett was l wouldn t say garlett was pushing forward himself but he allowed itjust to keep going, it was a very unusual case, the investigation prosecution is lasted almost a half decade for such a minor kind of charge. david wise says that it is not about anything other than a crime and to prove that no one is above the law. crime and to prove that no-one is above the law. is above the law. what you think of that? is above the law. what you think of that? think - is above the law. what you think of that? think it - is above the law. what you l think of that? think it proves that no one is above the law and, as the reporting was just pointing out, it certainly puts a lie to the idea that the doj is a biased place, if anything, most people feel that they have lead to far in the opposite direction to show they are not based on may have allowed an unusual case to go forward, really because hunter biden s last name is biden. and special counsel was as it is not about drug addiction. technically he is right, it is about lying about the drug addiction, but it certainly is about drug addiction. the overwhelming amount of the evidence was all towards proving how much she was using drugs. towards proving how much she was using drugs. right. we even had some clippings was using drugs. right. we even had some clippings of was using drugs. right. we even had some clippings of his - had some clippings of his audiobook that went to that point. still about sentencing. the first offenders real time isn t necessarily usual. what do you think we can expect? t do you think we can expect? i think is likely there will be probation. underthe federal probation. under the federal system probation. underthe federal system in the us is a fairly specific bunch of recommendations that come forward based on scores and an important part of that score for the defendant is the lack of a prior criminal history and the lack of any violence in the offence. it also sounds like number from the tone of what special counsel was saying, it s not like they want a very harsh centres, they prosecuted this in an objective way, let the recommendations be what they will from the probation officer. 50 they will from the probation officer. ., ., , they will from the probation officer. . ., , officer. so that means we could see no jail officer. so that means we could see no jail time, officer. so that means we could see nojailtime, is officer. so that means we could see no jail time, is that - see no jail time, is that correct? see nojailtime, is that correct? see no jailtime, is that correct? . , , see no jailtime, is that correct? i, correct? that s possible, yes. what about correct? that s possible, yes. what about the correct? that s possible, yes. what about the legal - correct? that s possible, yes. what about the legal options| what about the legal options other hunter biden and his team because his defence lawyers said we will pursue any avenues. what would that look like? , ., like? they can appeal the case, certainly. like? they can appeal the case, certainly, there like? they can appeal the case, certainly, there are like? they can appeal the case, certainly, there are a like? they can appeal the case, certainly, there are a couple . certainly, there are a couple one would be the overwhelming amount of evidence that kind of tawdry and embarrassing and the appellate judge tawdry and embarrassing and the appellatejudge might say tawdry and embarrassing and the appellate judge might say you overdid it a little bit, prosecuting, it ended up being more prejudicial than probative, there is also an unusual moment in the closing where the prosecutor reference hunter s family being the audience, including the first lady, and they clearly did that to offset the sympathy, but it s very unusual for a prosecutor, i ve never seen it done, to reference the audience there and that might end up coming back to haunt them a little bit. but the biggest problem for them is there is still another criminal case on the horizon which is the tax case. , ., , case. hunter biden s taxis in california- case. hunter biden s taxis in california. right. case. .. hunter biden s taxis in california. right. so case. .. hunter biden s taxis in california. right. so it- california. right. so it is difficult for california. right. so it is difficult for them - california. right. so it is difficult for them now i california. right. so it is difficult for them now to j california. right. so it is- difficult for them now to know what to do that, they may have taken a hard line if the plea bargain fell apart, we re going to trial, but whatever conviction he gets there, even if he pleads guilty to it, now his score is going to go up in terms of adjusting justin ters lab because he has the other conviction. lab because he has the other conviction- conviction. this story is certainly conviction. this story is certainly not conviction. this story is certainly not over- conviction. this story is certainly not over yet. l conviction. this story is - certainly not over yet. great to have you with us. around the world and across the uk, this is bbc news. let s look at a story making news in the uk. historians in england have found eight perfectly preserved giant stone balls in warwickshire which they believe were catapult missiles in the year 1266. they ve been found by english heritage and its believed the were used to attack kenilworth castle. historian will wyeth has been telling us about them. they would have been terrifying. historic sources talk about how 1 s thinking had set up. you know, historic sources talk about how once the king henry iii had set up the siege at the castle, he told his nine war machines to fire continuously for 172 days. so it would have been kind of cinematic quality siege that these stones are part of, really. the siege on kenilworth castle was one of the longest in english history and happened when the country was in the grip of civil war. the occupants eventually surrendered the castle to the king. the uncovered stone projectiles range in size from 1 kilogram to 105 kilograms or about 2 to 231 pounds. they were found while english heritage was working on a project to promote accessibility at the castle. they were able to link them to the siege because of a previous discovery at the site. you re live with bbc news. ukraine s far east has come under intense russian bombardment over the last few months. but now, the mayor of kharkiv says there have been fewer russian attacks ever since the us allowed ukraine to strike targets across the border using american weapons. it comes as president volodymyr zelensky is in germany to appeal for more support to protect ukrainian cities, hoping to encourage european nations to invest in the country s post war reconstruction. 0ur david mcguinness has more details on mr zelensky s push for recovery efforts in berlin. thousands of delegates from all over the world were in berlin to plan the reconstruction of ukraine after the war. they include governments officials from around 60 countries, as well as business leaders, and that s because the main point of this conference is to get private investment into ukraine. politicians say that state funds are not going to be enough. no matter how many billions of euros and dollars get pumped into ukraine, they need businesses to get involved. and on the one hand, its immediate reconstruction for bond infrastructure, for example, to provide energy, say, or water to people here and now, on the other hand, it s about rebuilding ukraine in the future, when the war finishes. and that s more difficult because no one knows how long this is going to last. after the conference, president zelensky went to the bundestag, the german parliament, to deliver a speech. the mps there applauded, gave him a standing ovation, it was a moving moment. but not all mps attended. mps from the far left and the far right boycotted president zelensky s speech, accusing him of escalating the war. and i think as we see national elections here in germany approaching next year, those voices on the extreme are going to get louder. mainstream germany, though, still very much supports ukraine, and they back german chancellor 0laf scholz s line that peace in europe is only possible if ukraine is fully supported. both mr zelensky and german chancellor 0laf scholz will attend the group of 7 summit of major western powers later this week. boosting support for ukraine is top of the g7 s agenda, and the white house said on tuesday it plans to announce new sanctions during the conference, including steps to use frozen russian assets to benefit ukraine. box also later this week switzerland will host a summit that aims to create a pathway for peace in ukraine although russia won t be in attendance. i spoke earlier to tymofiy mylovanov ukraine s former minister of economic development and trade and i asked him how its possible for ukraine to talk about recovery with the war still raging. it is actually resilience rather than recovery. president zelensky today spoke about the priorities and one of them the first one at the conference was an offence. ed offence is needed both to protect ukrainian civilians but also to protect the economy. and you cannot have proper defence, proper resistance to russia without a viable economy. the second one was about recovery or the energy generation believes that russia has been systematically targeting, so these things are extremely interconnected. it these things are extremely interconnected. interconnected. if we talk about recovery interconnected. if we talk about recovery as - interconnected. if we talk about recovery as a - interconnected. if we talk about recovery as a new | interconnected. if we talk - about recovery as a new mention that you go s energy infrastructure just be me tara rushton attacks, this what is it possible to give us any idea of the scale of money that it would need to rebuild that infrastructure? it would need to rebuild that infrastructure? would need to rebuild that infrastructure? it is a bit of a sensitive infrastructure? it is a bit of a sensitive topic, infrastructure? it is a bit of a sensitive topic, but - infrastructure? it is a bit of a sensitive topic, but there are still numbers, for example there is recent research by a school of economics which shows the numbers in the range of $50 billion. that is what you would need to recover. in terms of the amount or the percentage of generation abilities or capacity that has been affected it is above 50%, that is what observers are saying. the president of malawi has confirmed that vice president saulos chilima has been killed in a plane crash. in a sombre address to the nation, lazarus chakwera said the aircraft which was carrying chilima, and nine others. and nine others had crashed. a search and rescue team has found the aircraft near a hill in the chikangawa forest and they have found it completely destroyed, with no survivors, as all passengers on board were killed on impact. words cannot describe how heartbreaking this is and i can only imagine how much pain and anguish you all must be feeling at this time. for more on the search mission, the bbc s kalkidan yibeltal sent this update. the search mission has been complicated because of the landscape of the area. the aircraft was believed to be missing around the forest and because of bad weather. so, the plane was not found and even today, in the morning, the government came out and they said that because the area was foggy, they were having reduced visibility which was making their efforts difficult. however, there were fears that the plane might ve crashed in the forest and maybe the people on board might have died. we do not know what caused the air crash and investigations we are waiting for the results of the investigations to come out and to tell us but we can understand now that the vice president and his fellow passengers are all killed in this incident. and there is an expectation that there could be a funeral in the coming days. let s turn to some important news around the world. the united nations says a boat carrying 260 migrants sank off yemen s coast on monday, killing at least 49 people. 140 others are still missing. the un s international migration agency said a shortage of operational patrol boats is posing a challenge to ongoing search and rescue operations. most of the 71 survivors required minor medical care, eight were transferred to hospital for treatment. thai police say a fire ripped through pet shops next to a famous bangkok market early tuesday, killing around 1,000 caged animals and damaging more than 100 stalls. authorities believe the blaze was started by an electrical short circuit, adding that no human casualties have been reported. the incident renewed calls to shut the pet zone, which has been criticized for poor living conditions. the chief prosecutor at the international criminal court says his office is urgently investigating allegations of crimes against humanity in the sudanese city of el fasher the capital of north darfur. it comes as the us envoy to sudan has told the bbc the fighting was stoking ethnic tensions, and warned that the city could fall imminently. a us court has found multi national fruit company, chiquita brand international, liable for financing a colombian para military group. chiquita has been ordered to pay over $38 million in damages, following a civil case brought by eight colombian families whose relatives were killed by the united self defence forces of colombia. the company says it intends to appeal the verdict. that is our programme at this hour. thank you for watching bbc news. hello there. it s felt quite pleasant in any strong june sunshine. but generally temperatures have been below par for this time of year and wednesday looks pretty similar to the last few days. some spells of sunshine, variable cloud and further showers mostly across eastern areas. i think there ll be fewer showers around on wednesday because this is a ridge of high pressure, will tend to kill the showers off. the winds will be lighter, but we re still got that blue hue, that cold arctic air hanging around for at least one more day before something milder starts to push in off the atlantic, but with wind and rain. so it s a chilly start to wednesday. temperatures could be in low single digits in some rural spots. these are towns and city values. a little bit of mist and fog where skies have cleared overnight, but it s here where you ll have the best of the sunshine, northern and western areas. a bit of cloud across eastern scotland, eastern england, one 01’ two showers. through the day, it ll be one of sunshine and showers, but the clouds will tend to build most of the showers eastern areas, tending to stay drier towards the west with the best of the sunshine. so it could be up to 17 or 18 degrees in the sunniest spots, but generally cool, ten to 15 or 16 celsius. and then as we move through wednesday night, any showers fade away, lengthy, clear skies. the temperatures will tumble against mist and fog developing. temperatures in rural spots dipping close to freezing in a few places. generally, though, in the towns and cities, we re looking at 4 to eight degrees. now we ll start to see some changes into thursday. we change the wind direction, we lose that cooler air, something a bit milder. but this frontal system tied into low pressure will start to bring wet and windy weather initially into northern ireland, spreading across the irish sea, into western britain and pushing its way eastward. so we start dry with some early sunshine across eastern areas and it should stay dry, i think in eastern england, eastern scotland until after dark. we change the wind direction despite more cloud around, 17 or 18 degrees. and it means thursday night will be milder. so a milder start to friday, but low pressure across the country bring stronger winds, sunshine and showers or longer spells of rain. some of these showers will be heavy and thundery, particularly across southern and western areas. but despite that, in the sunshine, it ll feel a little bit warmer, maybe 19 or 20 degrees. not much change into the weekend, low pressure dominates the scene. it ll be breezy at times. there will be showers or longer spells of rain again, some of them heavy and thundery. but in the sunnier, brighter moments, it llfeela bit warmer, 19 or 20 degrees. and another thing you ll notice, it will feel milder at night. take care. voice-over: this is bbc news. we will have the headlines for you at the top of the hour, which is straight after this programme. hello. welcome to the media show. well, on this week s programme, we ve talked about a couple of subjects which are pretty familiar to us on the media show, but they re no less pressing because of that. one is howjournalists should cover donald trump and of course, he s trying to become president of america again and the other is about the business models of news, because they are under ever more pressure. and when it comes to the business model, we are also looking at al and journalism, because several news organisations have done recent deals with the big tech firms. so that is all coming up. on this week s programme, we re going to hearfrom andrew neil, who has a brand new show on times radio. he s also the chairman of the spectator group. and we rejoined by caroline waterston, the relatively new editor in chief of the daily mirror. yeah, we ve also got two guests coming out of the states
voice-over: this is bbc news. we will have the headlines for you at the top of the hour, which is straight after this programme. welcome to hardtalk. i m stephen sackur. of all the world s continents, africa is the one likely to see the greatest transformation in the course of this century. it will likely be home to almost 40% of all humanity by 2100. if, by then, africans have benefited from sustainable development, their global economic power will be enormous. if they haven t, then they could be facing cataclysmic levels of economic and environmental breakdown. my guest is the president of the african development bank, akinwumi adesina, sometimes dubbed africa s optimist in chief . is his positivity realistic or deluded? akinwumi adesina, welcome to hardtalk. it s good to see you, stephen. it s great to have you here. you need the world to believe in a bright african future. how is that going right now? it s going pretty well. if you take a look at the african economic outlook we had from the african development bank, the gdp growth rate, gdp growth rates last year was 3.1%. this year, it s 3.7%. and next year, it s going to be 4.3%. now, why that is important is that that is well above the global average. you still have ten out of the 20 fastest growing economies in the world being in africa. yeah, it s not quite as good as it sounds because you have fast rising populations across africa. yes, but when you have a lot of global shocks like we have, increasing real interest rates, and you have also a lot of geopolitical risks, you have a lot of inflation all around the world, africa still has its head above the water. yeah, i agree with you that in terms of the population growth rate, it s still high. real gdp is still not as high as we want it to be. africa still needs to grow at double digits, though, for probably another 10, 20 years before you see.millions of people taking out of poverty. but don t forget, africa is still the pivotal continent in which it has tremendous amount of opportunities to actually accelerate its development. but as boss of the african development bank, you need to persuade investors both state investors, multilateral institution investors and private investors that africa is a risk worth taking. and right now, we see political instability in many different parts of the continent. we see massive economic problems, perhaps highlighted most by youth unemployment, across the continent of africa. the risks still look enormous to the outsider. well, you know. i mean, you walk across the street, it s a risk. you take a flight, it s a risk. the world is all about risk, the world is about managing risk. yeah, but the investors of the world face choices. they don t have any particular reason to want to invest in africa. let me tell you why they should actually invest in africa, even if i accept some of the risk. first is take a look at what you were saying earlier in terms of population growth rate. you have a continent that is going to have 2.5 billion people by 2050, right? that s going to be really. especially young people you have a77 million of them less than the age of 35. that s the workforce of the world. secondly. yeah, many of them unemployed young people who will be deeply discontented. no, but actually, when you actually turn that demographic advantage into an economic dividend, that s a different thing. but take a look at also the agricultural potential. well, you know, africa has 65% of the uncultivated arable land left to feed the world, 9.5 billion people, by 2050. that s not in asia, that s not in latin america or europe. it s in africa. so what africa does with agriculture will determine the future of food in the world. but also, remember. 0k. we ll get to the detail of some of that proposition later. but let s just stick with risk because, again, this is about money and it s about loans and debts. and right now, i think it s right to say 22 or 23 african nations are struggling with the kind of massive debt that means they re flirting with default. i mean, some of them have defaulted. zambia, for example, defaulted in 2020. it s onlyjust emerging from default now. that represents, for a lender, a clear and obvious form of risk. well, let s take a look at the risk. perception is not reality. data matters. you know, moody s analytics did an assessment a iii year assessment of cumulative risk of losses on infrastructure around the world. guess what they found. they found that risk of loss in africa actual risk of loss in africa was 1.6%. 1.9%. latin america was roughly 12%. north america was 10%. if you take a look at western asia, 4.5%. so that means that africa is not as risky as people say. that said, you do have market risk, you do have political risk, you do have financial risk. and that s what we do as multilateral development banks, is to de risk those investments. but if you take a look at it in terms of risk return analysis, africa is still the place to be. hang on. some of this is jargon. so let s be simple about it. when you say we need to de risk some of the lending to africa, you basically mean you want special treatment, don t you, from institutions like the imf? no. no, it s not special treatment at all. in fact, africa wants no freebies. we have the instruments to de risk. let me give you some. well, it is special treatment, because you want these special drawing rights from the imf. they re literally called special drawing rights . yeah, but i ll tell you, you know, take a look at what we re talking about here. if you take, for example, benin, if benin needed to go to the capital markets to raise money from external investors, right? you still have a risk premium that african countries have, because everybody keeps saying, just like you said, africa risks premium. we have. it costs us three to four times to raise money than any part of the world. but we have partial credit guarantees that allows us to use $195 million to allow them to raise $400 million from external investors. we did the same also for senegal. we did the same for cote d ivoire, with $400 million to raise $530 million. what that does is it allows you to go into the capital markets, allows you to raise money long term and at a lower interest rate. and that is how we de risk investment. that s very, very important. we just did something, by the way, for egypt. we gave them a partial credit guarantee that allowed them to go issue panda bonds, $500 million on the capital markets, for china. it seems to me one of your messages over your quite long tenure now as president of the adb has been that the key multilateral financial institutions the imf, the world bank they are not sufficiently able or willing to understand africa, and they need more african involvement and input. 0veryourtenure, have you seen things change? for example, i m looking at the fact that the imf has created or is in the process of creating a third seat for africa on its board. south africa, for example, is now included in the g20. have you seen things change? well, you know, there s no choice. i mean, there s no doubt that everything has to change even more, right? first and foremost, their globalfinancial architecture is not serving the interests of africa very well. take a look at what happened during covid. while the developed countries actually disbursed, what, fiscal stimulus $19 trillion, 19% of the global gdp africa did what? $83 billion? that s just a minuscule 4.5%. take a look at climate change, right? climate change is devastating africa more than anybody else, any other parts of the world. we didn t cause climate change, only 3% of accumulated emissions, but we suffer $7 to $15 billion of losses every single year. ijust came from nairobi, where we had our annual meetings there devastated by floods. and you have zimbabwe devastated by drought and malawi and zambia with that. now what happens is africa needs, you know, stephen, 30. it gets $30 billion in terms of climate adaptation, but it needs $277 billion. now, let s go further in terms of what has happened also with the issue of debt that you were talking about. 0k, we have, you know, the situation for debt was not just because economics were being mismanaged. no, we still have, you know. people say you have long covid you have long fiscal covid here, in the sense that the economies are still trying to recover from the effects of that covid. but the two instruments that the global financial architecture put up, it s not solving that problem. you have the debt service suspension initiative, which was just simply postpone the evil day. then you have the g20 common framework. so your message is, you know, that, thanks to covid, thanks to climate change, africa s faced profound economic challenges and the international community hasn t really stepped up and responded and understood and appreciated ? if i mayjust say, because you mentioned the issue of the sdr, i ll talk about that. the special drawing rights? special drawing rights. you know, that special drawing rights, i have been a global champion for the need for us to take those special drawing rights of imf and use it better. when they were issued as a contingent facility, $650 billion were issued. africa gets hammered, $33 billion, $4.5 million. so. so i get it. i get it. the message you ve delivered over years is that the international community needs to do more. but i.want to tell you. ..for africa. ineed. i need to switch the focus a little bit because you re a former minister of agriculture in nigeria, you re an african politician. surely it s incumbent upon you to recognise that part of the problem here is desperately poor governance infartoo many countries inside africa. well, you know, there s no doubt about the need anywhere in the world to have improved governance, improved transparency, improved accountability. you know, we are. so i don t see you talking about that. no, no. i do. let s talk about. well, let s talk about it. ..one of the most famous african writers, and sort of the conscience of africa, wole soyinka, the nigerian novelist. he said, too many african states are run by his quote sick old men, dictators, authoritarians who ve been around for decades and decades. corruption is endemic in too many countries in africa. isn t it incumbent upon you to focus some of your effort on getting african nations to change? we actually, within the african development bank, have a programme called sega. you know, it is all about economic governance in africa. it has to do with public financial management. it has to do with debt management. it has to do with reducing illicit capital flows. now, i agree with you today, we have illicit capital flows out of africa, about $89 billion a year. sometimes it s like pouring water into a basket, right? it needs to be able to hold it. but this much, i will say, even as i agree with all of that corruption is not unique to africa. look. nobody s saying that. no, no. nobody s saying that. but what i m interested in, i m interested in your priorities. no, no. hang on. there was an extraordinary report in the financial times last year which revealed that your own african development bank anti corruption fund which was established, at that point, seven years earlier had never been used. there was $55 million there to finance anti corruption efforts, which you simply hadn t tapped into. no, that is absolutely. why? it s not correct. you know, we actually have an independent anti corruption unit that actually sanctions companies that have non competitive behaviour. you set up a fund and you didn t spend the money that was in the fund. will you let me make the point? because you re asking me the question, so let me answer it. the point is, we actually have the fund. but in implementing that fund, guess what we found? we found that there were conflict of interests in the way the fund itself was set up. as president of the bank, i m not going to mingle that with the funds of the bank. and we said, no, we can t do that. we need to find a way in which that is given to a third party. the money is there, the money is going to a third party. but, look, we re not going to mingle money we ve got for those that pay sanctions to ourselves. it just seems extraordinary that for seven years, you had an anti corruption fund, a so called integrity fund, which you didn t spend a single dollarfrom. well, $54 million. we are a $380 million bank. and just so that you know, the african development bank was ranked just last year as the most transparent institution in the world. let s get back to the strategic vision. you ve outlined it to a certain extent with me over the last few minutes. it is undoubtedly true that climate change and energy transition is one of the key pillars of what you want to achieve with this investment in africa. how s it going? it s going pretty well. you know, we now devote 55% of our overall financing in the bank to climate. when i was elected in 2015, we had only 9% going to climate. but climate is the biggest issue. climate adaptation is the biggest issue. now we have three ways in which we re supporting african countries on that. first is we are. we ve made a commitment to double our climate finance to $25 billion by 2030. second, we have a programme that is called african adaptation acceleration program, which is to deploy $25 billion for climate adaptation. by the way, it s the largest climate adaptation programme in the world, together with the global centre on adaptation. and thirdly, nine out of ten, stephen, countries that are most vulnerable to climate change in the world are in africa. 100% of them are in the low income countries that we serve with the african development fund. so what we did was we created a climate action window with $429 million that will rise to about $13 billion to deploy capital to support those countries to be able to, you know for example, let me get practical here provide crop insurance for 20 million farmers and also have a million hectares of land that s been degraded to be improved, and also 20 million people to have climate information. and so that s what we do. now, interestingly, we have one programme that s working very well. it s called africa disaster risk insurance facility. what it does essentially is it pays premiums for countries when they face exogenous shocks like this one. we ve been able to do it for 15 countries. we re scaling that now to $1 billion to be able to insure countries against catastrophic risk events. but it s still not enough. it s still not enough. lots of different mitigation and adaptation efforts that are being financed partly, at least by the adb. i m just interested to know whether you are still willing to finance investment in fossil fuel production, exploration and production, in africa? there are countries from mozambique to angola to zimbabwe which are still major players and, to a certain extent, rely on fossil fuel energy. are you prepared to put money in those projects? we are not doing upstream work on oil or gas. any? no, and we don t fund coal either. however, i will say this. we fund natural gas because natural gas is a very important transition fuel for africa, just like it is in europe, where you are, right? you turn on your cooker and you cook. guess what? with gas. why should that be different from african countries? where we lose today, we have 1.2 billion people that don t have access to clean cooking energy. you know, we lose 300,000 women every year. all they are trying to do is just cook a decent meal. that doesn t make any sense. secondly, it s that we need gas also for fertilisers. the same way in which the west has fertilisers, africa has the right to be able to do that. but this much i will say about gas, so that we don t confuse ourselves. you know, gas reduces the amount of emissions you actually get from relying primarily on just simply other fossil fuels. and secondly, when you use that for clean cooking, it actually saves hundreds of millions of hectares of land. thus far, all the promises made by the rich world the industrialised, developed world to pour billions of dollars into developing economies, particularly in africa, to help them cope with the potentially devastating impacts of climate change, that money hasn t yet been delivered in any serious amount. is it your message that countries in africa need now to be given massive sort of financial recompense for not, for example, deforesting their extraordinary natural assets? i m thinking of a country like democratic republic of congo which has vast forests. yeah. you know, in fact, if you take a look at africa today, that congo basin that you were talking aboutjust now is the second only to amazon in terms of the carbon lungs for the world. and so africa is providing the global public goods for which it s not paid for. you know, basically, you have vast carbon sinks, you have vast forests, you have biodiversity, but africa is nature rich but cash poor. but how do you get people to listen to this message? well, let me tell you what we re doing about it, what we re saying. we re not going to be doing that any more. if you take what got us to all the mess that we re all dealing with globally today, it s because of the way we measure wealth. we measure wealth by saying gross domestic product, value of goods and services that an economy produces. but who really cares? because that doesn t tell you anything about the technology used to do it, the externalities for it, and who internalises the externalities. in the case of africa, we have all this forest, and we say we re going to have to revalue and rebase the gdp of africa based on its natural capital stock. and why is that important? so you basically take these forests and say, this is real wealth. yes. ..and it has to be recognised, and therefore you have to give us the credit that comes with having that asset ? yes, steve. and the thing is, if you take a look at the debt to gdp ratio, which is the measure that we use to determine whether your debt is sustainable or not, if you rebase your gdp based on your natural capital stock, your debt to gdp ratio falls. no, iunderstand. no, no, but i want to. and therefore it s easier for you to borrow money, which is where you and the adb come in. i get all that, but isn t there an element of blackmail to this? because the underlying message seems to be, yes, we are custodians of this vast natural asset call it a carbon sink and the message is, if you don t recognise that and recognise it as part of our asset base, our wealth and loan to us accordingly, we will exploit it, we ll mine it, we ll deforest it. no, no, no, no, no. no. you see, the coming. it s not about exploitation. it s about being wise and valuing yourself properly, just like if you and i go to a commercial bank and you re trying to value your assets. all we are saying is we want african economies to develop going green. but in going green, the proper valuation of the natural capital of africa, it s very, very important, so africa stops being nature rich and cash poor. 0k, we need to move on because we don t have that much time. 0k. i just want to ask you a little bit more about demographics. you earlier were telling me what a great asset it is for africa to have these hundreds of millions of young people. i, at the beginning, talked about africa becoming home to 4 in 10 of all humanity, potentially, by 2100. isn t the truth of this that there is no way africa can support the levels of population growth that we currently see? well, i think africa is doing well with regard to that. three things i want to say. first is, education matters. you know, with 477 million people under the age of 35, i. and it kind of. sometimes i, you know, see migration to mediterranean and all of that, that breaks my heart, of course. but here is. but it s actually increasing. yeah, exactly. but the future of africa s youth is not here in london. it s not in europe. it s not in latin america. it must be in an africa growing very well, equitably and able to create jobs. but what we are doing. ok, i see the potential, but i also see the downsides. not so very long ago, a few years ago, in this studio, nigeria s former president 0basanjo told me that the levels of population growth in africa that he saw at that particular time, i think it was 2017, represented a ticking time bomb. would you use that language today? i wouldn t use that term. you know, i don t disagree with him. ijust think we need to grow much faster to be able to turn that demographic dividend into an economic dividend. and if you allow me just to make that point, that is why, for example, isn t it odd, stephen, that we have a continent with that amount of people, we don t have financial institutions for young people? and that s why the african development bank is rolling out what we call youth entrepreneurship investment banks. they are new financial institutions that will give debt and equity for the businesses of young people, because i firmly believe that we must create youth based wealth in africa. we have to improve their skills, their entrepreneurship, their access to financing, and for them to be able to play a bigger role in our economy. look, the future of the world is going to depend on what happens to the youth of africa. and so we are putting our financing at risk on their behalf. otherwise that s going to be our biggest risk, is not taking care of our youth. that s a very powerful statement you just made about how crucially important africa is to the future of the world. you need outside help to ensure that africa s 21st century is a positive story, not a negative one. where do you think most of that help is going to come from in the future? the economist magazine says that america has essentially lost interest in africa. it s so preoccupied with problems in other parts of the world. does that mean that china, maybe russia as well, are going to be where you at the adb, perhaps, but certainly african nation states look for economic support and cooperation in the future? ijust came back from nairobi, where we had the annual meeting, steve, of the african development bank. the african development bank, which has 81 shareholders, which includes 54 african. it includes the us and china. and uk, by the way, great supporter of us, you know. but my point is, geopolitical tensions are rising. does africa need to make a choice about who it partners with? yeah, but i want to say is that we got an increase in capital of the bank from all our shareholders, $117 billion. that puts our capital at $308 billion. and that came from all over. it came from the united states. it came from uk, it came from italy. it came from everybody else. but when it comes to investments, we need to be able to have investors in africa. yes, you and i talk about the issue of risk and how we manage those risks. and those investors can come from any part of the world. the fact of the matter is africa.doesn t have to really choose. africa has to decide what s in its own interest and be able to attract the kind of investments it needs. take a look at the transformative power of working together. you know, we have, for example, the lobito corridor, which is linking.angola to zambia, which we are doing with the united states. we also have other corridors we are working with multiple partners on. we also have, by the way, stephen, and i hope i can invite you there, what is called the africa investment forum, which we ve been running for the last five years, and we ve been able to mobilise well over $180 billion of investment interest to africa. same africa that you were saying has risk is exactly where people are coming to put their money. if you re not in africa, i wonder where else you ll be putting your money in. that s where the frontier is. clearly, this is a hugely important story. but for now, akinwumi adesina, thank you very much forjoining me on hardtalk. thank you, stephen. thank you. very good to see you. hello there. for most of us a disappointing start to the week. gusts of wind from the north and in excess of 30 miles an hour. temperatures struggled to get into double figures. slightly different further south and west. just look at anglesea. temperatures peaking at around 18- 19 temperatures peaking at around 18 19 degrees. high pressure continuing to nudge in from the west. likely to be a few showers around but hopefully fewer and further between. most frequently across eastern scotland and eastern england. sunny spells and scattered showers into the afternoon, impacting the temperature. again, with a little more shelter and sunshine, 17 or 18 to celsius not out of the question. scattered showers moving through northern ireland and scotland. hopefully they will either through the afternoon. temperatures are still really struggling. as we move out of tuesday into wednesday, this ridge of high pressure will continue to kill off the showers. wednesday likely to be the driest day of the week. make the most of it, more rain to come. a pretty chilly start once again to wednesday morning. single figures across the country. low single figures in rural spots but hopefully the showers should be few and further between. more sunshine out to the west. temperatures of similar value we have seen all week. the wind direction will start to change as we move into thursday. unfortunately, towards the end of the week, the low pressure will take over and we will see further spells of rain. at times heavy but the wind and will play its part a little. temperatures climbing a degree or so but do not expect anything too significant because we have the cloud and rain around. across eastern and southeast england we could see highs of 20 celsius. take care. live from london, this is bbc news. joe biden s son, hunter, is found guilty of lying about his drug use to buy a gun. hamas says it wants a complete halt to war in response to us backed peace plans. scottish political leaders clash over the cost of living and independence in a bbc debate. and, how long could you last without your smartphone? we meet the teens going cold turkey for five whole days. hello. i m sally bundock. the son of the us president joe biden is facing
the rachel maddow show starts right now. hi, rachel. hi, yen. thanks very much. much appreciated. thanks to you at home. really happy to have you here. we have an interesting show for you tonight. particularly glad you re here for it. we re going to start a ways back as we sometimes do. when allied soldiers came ashore on the coast of france on the beaches of normandy for the d-day invasion, they opened up a new western front against the nazis in europe. and that of course was a shock to the germans. the operation overlord, the d-day invasion, it relied on the element of surprise. and the germans really were shocked. they had been occupying france for four years at that point. they the installed a collaborationest regime that they assembled from pro-fascist and pro-nazi forces inside france, so the collaborationists and the nazis together were ruling france and they had been for years. there was a french resistance to the nazi rule and the collaborationists, but the nazis and their puppets were definitely in charge. they were actually heading into year five of being in charge. they were really settled in, in france. and then here comes this shock arrival. this invasion. hundreds of thousands, ultimately millions of allied troops landing on the beaches and the cliffs of the northwest of france. and they are clearly planning to take it all back. the d-day invasion, the allied invasion, started on june 6th. now, on this date, on june 10th, 1944, just four days into the d-day invasion, the germans were reacting. they had been, of course, shocked by the initial invasion. but a few days into it, they now realized the scale of what they were up against and had started scrambling their units from all over france, turning all the available german troops in france toward the northwest of that country to try to stop the allied advance. and that included a nazi ss panzer division that had been in the south of franz. that division was ordered to essentially traverse the whole length of the country, head north to where the allies were advancing from the beaches of normandy. and on their way north through france, toward the new allied front lines, the new western front, this panzer division stopped in a village called oradour. pro-nazi french collaborators had told them, they told this panzer unit that the french resistance was active in this town. and they told them that the french resistance in that town had killed a nazi officer. and in response, that panzer unit decided, yes, they were on their way to the north of france to join the new western front and the, you know, the battle for the whole war, to try to shore up the german lines against the big allied invasion, but they decided on their way there, they would stop and do something in oradour. they would destroy that entire village and everyone in it. that panzer unit rounded up every single man, woman, and child in that village. they even rounded up random people who didn t live in the village but were nearby or who had the misfortune to be passing through the village when this nazi unit made this decision. that nazi unit killed every human being in oradour. or everyone they could find. they killed 643 civilians. a vast majority of them women and children. they used machine guns and they burned them alive. they looted the entire village, and then they tore down the village as best they could. they razed it. oradour. this is what it looks like today. still in ruins. the french decided after the war that they would never rebuild. they would leave the ruins, preserve them as they were left at the end of the war, as a memorial to what the nazis did. and we have these photos of what oradour looks like literally today, because this morning, the president of france and the president of germany visited the ruins at oradour to commemorate what they call the martyrdom of that village, to remember what happened in europe, in france, under fascist occupation. now, this is not the first time that french president emmanuel macron has visited oradour. actually, ten days before he was first elected president, he went there. he visited the village just before he was elected president. he visited in the company of the man who was then the last living survivor of that massacre. i said the nazis killed everyone in the village, at least everyone they could find. the nazis did kill over 600 civilians that day, but there were about half a dozen people from the village who, against all odds, in a miracle managed by hook or by crook to survive. the last one of the survivors was in his 90s when he brought emmanuel macron to oradour in 2017. that last survivor has since died. but today, macron went back to the site, to show this place, to germany s president. now, in 1944, about six months after oradour happened, the germans were still hanging on. but thanks in large part to the d-day invasion, they knew by the end of 1944 that they were losing. they were losing to soviet forces in the east, for sure. they were also simultaneously losing to the allied forces coming in from the west. once the allies opened that new western front with the d-day invasion, they started pressing their advantage against the nazis everywhere. not only liberating france, they clearly intend to liberate everywhere the nazis have taken over. they re pressing toward germany itself. hitler knows that his military is on the ropes. it cannot sustain the losses they re taking on both the eastern and western fronts. and so about six months after d-day, about six months after oradour, hitler decides he s going to mount a surprise of his own. he decides he s going to mount a huge german counteroffensive in belgium against the allies. the allies are basically closing in on germany s own borders and when hitler musters hundreds of thousands of men to mount a counteroffensive against them in the forests of belgium, it absolutely is a surprise to the allies. nobody thought germany still had it in them. everybody thought not everybody, but a lot of people thought the war was going to be over by christmas that year. where did the germans muster 400,000, 500,000 men to mount this new counteroffensive, but they did. that german counteroffensive started in mid-december 1944. it began a six-week-long battle that would be the single deadliest battle of the entire war for the u.s. military. aside from just the brutal toll of that battle, that was the battle of the bulge, that battle also came with its own astonishing and unforgettable atrocity. it was another german panzer unit much like the one that killed the entire population of that french village. it was an ss panzer unit in belgium. and they ended up in the very outset of that surprise german counteroffensive, they ended up ambushing a bunch of americans. and the result of it was they took custody of a large group of american prisoners of war, unarmed american p.o.w.s. and these p.o.w.s, again, they had surrendered. they had no weapons. the nazis lined up those americans in a field, the americans have no weapons. they have surrendered. they have their hands above their heads. they re p.o.w.s, but the nazis just massacred them in the field, they mowed them down with machine gun fire. and like at that village of oradour, what is almost as unbelievable as what the nazis did there was the fact there were somehow miraculously some survivors. there were some american gis who had also been lined up in that field, who nevertheless lived. american gis who played dead, who hid under the dead bodies of their comrades, who managed in the end to drag themselves into the woods to get away. and what happened to them? you will not believe me when i tell you this, but it would not be long before a sitting united states senator would vehemently object to those men giving testimony about what they saw. about what they survived, about what happened to their platoon mates, to the other men in that battalion. the other p.o.w.s who were massacred by those nazis. a sitting u.s. senator tried to block the american soldiers who survived that massacre from giving testimony about it in congress. he said the american people shouldn t hear it. he said it would be inflammatory. it would inflame the public against the nazis who killed all of those unarmed american p.o.w.s. i find it absolutely insane to think about, but this became a very strange thing in american domestic politics. i mean, there were unrepentant leftover nazis in germany after the war. they were trying to make the allies and america in particular the bad guys from world war ii and maybe that is understandable when you think about unrepentant nazis who just lost the war, but you would not believe it, the thing that s amazing is not that there were leftover nazis who were trying to do this. the thing you wouldn t believe is they enlisted a lot of americans to help them in that project. including taking a stand against the american soldiers who survived that p.o.w. massacre and demanding that the nazis who did it should be set free. this became a cause celebre in the right wing press at the time. and it helped launch the national career, the rocketship ascendance of arguably the most radical and controversial figure in republican electoral politics in the last 80 years before donald trump. while he was swimming in these very dark waters, darker than what seems possible for something in mainstream american politics he would go on to lead a movement of millions of followers who were increasingly radicalized by his increasingly radical rhetoric and tactics over time. his fellow republicans were both repelled by him, horrified by him, while they also wanted in on some of the massive political energy and fanatical devotion he attracted. they thought very seriously about putting him forward for the presidency, and the reaction among close observers of him and his tactics look so much like what you re seeing in the american press today about the fear of a second trump term, you wouldn t believe that it isn t just a straight up rerun. in his time, the people who stood up against him mostly got mowed down in politics by the strength of his fanatical following. that happened for a very long time. until eventually, ultimately, it stopped happening. and the forces against him prevailed. and i m telling you this for two reasons. number one, this is the thing that i have been working on for the past year. my podcast, rachel maddow presents ultra, now has a season two, and it is out today. episode one is out today. you can get it anywhere you get podcasts. if you don t usually listen to podcasts, if you take out your phone right now, open the camera on your phone, and point it at that weird looking little circular square thing on your screen, you click on the little box that pops up on your phone, it will bring you right there so you can listen to it. you can listen to it for free. it s free to listen to. there are eight episodes of this all together. episode one is out today. i hope you may want to listen. i have been working really hard on it. i m really proud of it, but i hope you like it. i hope you ll check it out. that s one of the easons i m telling you this story. i have been working on this story, i have been working in general on stories about other times in our american history that we have dealt with really terrible threats to the country. where we have confronted really radical people with really radical designs to undo the fundamental things that make us who we are as a country who nevertheless get into political power and attract large followings. this has happened to us before. and the reason i have been working on this for the past couple years, the reason i have been working on these projects is because for me, i feel like i really need to learn this stuff and fast, for me, there is a real urgency to learn these stories now. from when we have contended with terrible challenges before, particularly when we re talking about powerful americans advocating for authoritarianism or just flat out embodying it. particularly when it s about selling factually unhinged conspiratorial lies to the american public and half the public is mortified, mystified by that, but the other half of the public is super energized by it and they not only believe these lies, they kind of become their whole new reason to live. the public gets bifurcated like that into earth one and earth two where some people are based in the reality based community and some people are based in a different place, and that place is emotionally satisfying to them, and radicalizing them, and it takes over their lives. we are living through a moment like that right now with what is ascendant on the american right, but we have lived through it before. and i feel like i m racing to learn these stories about americans who have fought these kinds of fights before us for the simple reason that i feel like i need their ideas about how to fight it. we need their ideas about how to fight these things. we need to see what worked and what didn t when americans faced threats like this before. and it doesn t mean that fighting them always works. sometimes they get away with a lot of this stuff, and sometimes people take on incredible risk and danger to themselves. sometimes people risk their lives or give up their lives to fight these things, but knowing the track record of americans who have stood up against these kinds of dark and authoritarian and anti-democratic forces knowing who else has tried it and what s happened to them is helpful for us calibrating our available responses now. and knowing what to expect when we confront these dark movements. so that is why i have been working on this, and that is why that story is on my mind tonight. but it is also what s on the news right now. i mean, one of the remarkable things about seeing the french president with the german president at the ruins of oradour today in france is that they took that tour of the ruins of that village today, that preserved memorial to what fascism did in europe, they took that tour this morning. just one day after the german far right and the french far right won shockingly large proportions of the vote in the european elections that were held yesterday. in both of those countries, the parties that did so well have ties not only to the old fascist participaties of world war ii era germany and france, they both have current ties, including financial ties, to vladimir putin and russia. when president biden and president macron of france met in france these past few days for the commemoration of the 80th anniversary of d-day, president biden said that he and president macron agreed on a new plan to seize russian assets in the g-7 countries and use those seized russian assets to provide even more support to ukraine. as ukraine continues to struggle against the russian invasion of that country. president biden is just back from france for these d-day commemoration ceremonies and from those meetings with president macron. he s just back but heads back to europe the day after tomorrow to go to the g-sev summit, among other things to rally the other nations to support this new plan, to support ukraine as much as possible including this new plan that he and macron have just agreed to involving seizing russian assets to help ukraine even more. and, you know, in the american aperture here, what s going on in our politics while president biden is trying to, you know, rally the free world, trying to strengthen our alliances as much as possible to lead collective international will against a rogue dictatorship that has invaded one big european country already and has its sights set on more, here at home, literally while president biden and other american leaders were headed off to europe for the 80th anniversary of d-day, while they were heading off to europe for that, what was happening in the american congress? a fifth of the republicans in congress just voted that we should leave our allies altogether. that we should break up the big western alliance, that we should defund nato. and i think nobody really paid attention to this vote because this legislation was put forward by a very fringe member of congress, a member of congress who is known for her publicity stunts and she s therefore she is easy to ignore. but it wasn t just her. 46 republicans voted for this thing. a fifth of the republicans in congress last week voted to defund nato. don t just forget being the leader of the free world, forget the whole idea of there being a free world at all. they saved that for the anniversary of d-day. 46 republicans voting to defund nato. and as radical as that may seem, particularly when you think about where nato came from and why, the wing of the republican party that is pushing for this stuff, i mean, on its face, it seems unlikely they would have such sway. every few days we get a new mugshot of one of their leading lights because so many of them have been charged with crimes. today, it was their presidential candidate s personal lawyer, who has had his law license suspended, who is under indictment, rudy giuliani s mugshot just released today after he was arraigned in arizona. you can put it up on the wall with all of the other maga republican mugshots we have accrued over the past year. their presidential candidate is a convicted felon. today he had to meet with the probation office in new york ahead of his sentences. people at his rallies not only wear tshirts and fly flags that have his mugshot on them, they started carrying signs and wearing shirts that now say they re proudly voting for the convicted felon. at a rally this weekend, their presidential candidate described members of the mob of his supporters who physically attacked congress and injured dozens of police officers, he described them in a speech this weekend as, quote, warriors. his warriors. people who took part in that mob attack on congress. his warriors. while a few days ago, two police officers who were both badly injured fighting hand to hand with that mob to defend congress, to defend the u.s. capitol, those two police officers were jeered and booed by republicans in the pennsylvania state legislature. they jeered them, turned their backs on them and walked out. these are two officers who survived that attack, they were literally injured fighting for their country, defending our seat of government against a violent attack. but the republicans who jeered at them and turned their backs on them and walked out, they want the attackers freed. and they don t want to hear what these survivors of the attack had to say. don t want to hear from the survivors and the witnesses. you want the attackers set free. we are going through some weird stuff right now. but we have gone through weird stuff before. and i do think that we can learn from it and that we urgently need to. that s why i have been working on all these projects. that s why i ve got this new podcast out and i hope you listen. but it s not just the distant past. in the very recent past when we got donald trump in the white house in the first place, you might remember what preceded that shock election result here in the united states in 2016. our shock presidential election result in 2016 was preceded that year by some shocking and surprisingly right wing election results in europe. including the brexit vote in britain which happened just months before trump s surprise presidential victory here. i asked ben rhodes to please join us here tonight in the wake of what is now, again, another round of what seemed to be surprisingly right wing election results in europe this weekend. was it right in 2016 to see right wing election results in europe as a harbinger of what was coming for us in the fall of 2016? as president biden balances his campaign responsibilities right now with back-to-back trips to europe, he just got back from europe, he heads back to europe again on wednesday. do the election results from europe right now, this weekend, have hallmarks that tell us anything about what to expect here and about how weird this is all going to get? president biden clearly sees our connections to europe right now as absolutely key to the future of the world. does what s going on in european politics right now tell us something to expect about the future of our world here? joining us now is ben rhodes. he s former deputy national security adviser to president obama, cohost of the pod save the world podcast. really great to see you. thanks for making time to be here tonight. good to see you. first, let me ask you for some of our viewers who may not have paid close attention to what was happening in the european elections this weekend, let me ask you two questions about them. do you think they re important for us to pay attention to? and can you just give us a rough characterization of what happened in those elections? sure. these were elections for the european parliament. so the european union wide parliament, so the only election that takes place every few years in which all of europe votes. it s a good barometer of where opinion is in europe. the two headlines are the far right made noticeable gains in the two largest countries in europe, france and germany. in france, the national front party, the far right party that used to be on the fringes of french politics, emerged as by far the largest vote getter in this election and to build on what you re saying, this is a party that is not only far right, they have ties to russia. they have gotten a $10 million loan from russia in the past decade. in germany, the afd party, which has ties that go back into the kind of neonazi past of germany, they got over 15% of the vote, not a huge total, but very alarming given the source here. i want to be clear, in other parts of europe, the center did hold. i think the real concerning factor is in the two most important countries, france and germany, we saw these far right gains. do you think that it s right to look back at 2016 and see some of what was going on in politics in europe as a harbinger for the shock election result we got in the fall of 2016 when trump won? do you think these election results should be read as a harbinger of what s coming down the pike for us this year? i absolutely do, rachel. the commonality between the brexit vote, the vote by the uk to leave the european union in 2016 and the trump election was that it was a it was a surprise. people did not think brexit was going to win the campaign and they campaigned on a kind of right wing populist message. the slogan was take back control. they ran against globalists and liberal elites and against immigration and was very trumpy in its message, frankly. it kind of foreshadowed what we ended up dealing with in the fall here. i think the warning in this election, and you ask mead a question when i came on to talk about my book a few years ago about far right parties and their commonalities around the world, you asked what lesson should we learn. i always think about that. the lesson i take from this one is that their incumbent parties in germany and france that have defended essentially the status quo, emmanuel macron has been a defender of the european union. olaf scholz has been a defender of the liberal order. people are not listening to that message right now. you cannot defeat these parties, these populist insurgents be being the defenderoffs the stat status quo, but you have to tap into people s dissatisfaction with globalization, dissatisfaction with inequality. sense that things are slipping out of control. it s not enough to say we re the responsible adults here. you have to kind of get down and have a different message for how things are going to change. i think that s the warning sign that joe biden should hear, not enough to run on status quo here. not enough to defend even the things we think are very important. you have to meet people where they are, and people are frustrated. ben rhodes, former deputy national security adviser to president obama. ben, thank you for making the time. i feel like when we need to like widen the lens a lot and look at america in the world, you re almost always one of the first people i think of. thank you for being here. thanks, rachel. i can t wait to check out the podcast. i appreciate it. thank you. we have much more ahead here tonight. do stay with us. shop etsy for thoughtful pieces made by real people to bring a little something extra to the ordinary. find items that add wow to walls and make you fall in love with your family room again. when you want one-of-a-kind pieces to refresh your home. etsy has it. sometimes your work shirt needs to be for more than just work. like when it needs to be a big, soft shoulder to cry on. which is why downy does more to make clothes softer, 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( ) ( ) this one will never see the light of day. all right. nitty-gritty here. in the aftermact of the 2020 election, georgia became this kind of benchmark for principled republicans refusing to go along with improper, un-american machinations from president trump. governor brian kemp, brad raffensperger, two very conservative republicans, both nevertheless stood up to personal pressure from trump to overturn president biden s win in georgia. and of course, all that pressure trump brought to bear on georgia republicans and the ways in which those republicans resisted, that formed the basis for fulton county district attorney fani willis filing a huge rico case against trump and 18 of his codefendants in georgia. that s one story of the state of georgia after the 2020 election. republicans standing up, the record of them standing up and what they had to stand up against forming the basis for this sprawling, damning criminal indictment. the other story of georgia since that election is all the work that pro-trump republicans have done to make sure nothing like that ever happens again. to make sure nobody can ever again get in the way of trump seizing georgia s 16 electoral votes, no matter what the votes say. the most obvious thing georgia republicans have done is use every tool at their disposal to derail fani willis prosecution of trump. in the latest development in that three republican appointed judges have just put the whole case on hold while they take their time considering whether fani willis should be disqualified from the case. thus guaranteeing that the georgia prosecution will definitely not go forward against trump before the election. but that s only the start. in georgia s most populous county, fulton county, one republican elections board member last month refused to certify the primary results there. because you know, elections are scary. with the help of lawyers from a pro-trump think tank, she has now filed a lawsuit seeking the power to block the certification of elections which would of course throw november s results in georgia into chaos. which is presumably the point. meanwhile, just north of fulton county, republicans recently started agitating to take over an elections board in cherokee county. now, the board there, like other counties in georgia, has always been evenly split between democrats and republicans, but republicans in cherokee county are no longer okay with that. they wanted a full scale republican takeover, when that was blocked, they comp with an ingenious new plan. they decided they would replace one of the democratic commissioners who had been nominated with their own choice. their own choice for a democrat. a new guy that none of the local democrats have ever heard of. but don t worry, the republicans who run cherokee county swear this guy they picked is definitely a democrat. the atlanta journal constitution reported that the republican cherokee county commission chairman, quote, assured the board that the new member is a democrat, even if the local democratic party is unfamiliar with him. i assure you, he s definitely on your team. i know you have never met and i picked him, but trust me. pinky promise. meanwhile, at the state elections board in georgia, republicans there just started writing a new rule that would allow county elections boards to conduct a, quote, reasonable inquiry before they certify any election results. so instead of signing off on election results as county election boards are now required to do by law, they would be empowered instead to investigate those results as they see fit. the journal constitution notes that, quote, the proposed rule doesn t say what a reasonable inquiry would entail before certifying an election. yeah, why would you specify that? you want every election denying republican county elections board member in georgia just making it up as they go along, calling their own behavior reasonable. while the presidential election potentially hangs in the balance. speaking of that state elections board, one of its republican members was ousted last month, one of its republican members was ousted, after trump reportedly spent months calling georgia republicans insisting that that election board member had to go. because that person was not backing trump s lies about the 2020 election. and so of course, the guy had to go. trump s personal involvement in remaking the georgia state elections board is just one of the revelations in new reporting from rolling stone. their new piece is headlined georgia is our laboratory. inside trump s plan to rig 2024. it details how trump s allies are working to make sure there will not be a straightforward election result in georgia this year, given georgia s swing state status that absolutely could be a deciding factor in how the election is going to go down. what is happening there? what is happening to try to stop what is happening there? one of the reporters on that rolling stone piece joins us next. stay with us. ay with us citi s industry leading global payments solutions help their clients move money around the world seamlessly in over 180 countries. and help a partner like the world food programme as they provide more than food to people in need. together, citi and the world food programme empower families across the globe. we re trying to save the planet with nuggets. empower families across the globe. because we need the planet. and we also need nuggets. impossible. your best defense against erosion and cavitieseat. is strong enamel. nothing beats it. i recommend pronamel active shield because it actively shields the enamel to defend against erosion and cavities. i think that this product is a game changer for my patients. it really works. organic soil from miracle-gro has grown me the best garden i have ever had. good soil, and you get good results. look at that! the broccoli was fantastic. that broccoli! i think some of them were six, seven pounds. love you. have a good day, behave yourself. like she goes to work at three in the afternoon and sometimes gets off at midnight. she works a lot, a whole lot. we don t get to eat in the early morning. we just wait till we get to the school. so, yeah. right now here in america, millions of kids like victoria and andre live with hunger, and the need to help them has never been greater. when you join your friends, neighbors and me to support no kid hungry, you ll help hungry kids get the food they need. if we want to take care of our children, then we have to feed them. your gift of just $0.63 a day, only $19 a month at helpnokidhungry.org right now will help provide healthy meals and hope. we want our children to grow and thrive and to just not have to worry and face themselves with the struggles that we endure. nobody wants that for their children. like if these programs didn t exist me and aj, we wouldn t probably get lunch at all. please call or go online right now with your gift of just $19 a month. and when you use your credit card, you ll receive this limited edition t-shirt to show you re part of the team that s helping feed kids and change lives. if you re coming in hungry, there s no way you can listen to me teach, do this activity, work with this group. so starting their day with breakfast and ending their day with this big, beautiful snack is pretty incredible. whether kids are learning at school or at home, your support will ensure they get the healthy meals they need to thrive. because when you help feed kids, you feed their hopes, their dreams, and futures. kids need you now more than ever. so please call this number right now to join me in helping hungry kids or go online to helpnokidhungry.org and help feed hungry kids today. . the ultimate authority is the voter. the secretary of state was re-elected by the voters of the state by a larger margin than any other excuse me. order. order. by a larger margin than any other state-wide office. the voters order. have demonstrated their faith and therefore i do not believe that at present, we have the authority to oversee or investigate the secretary of state. georgia s board of elections gathered to discuss larging an investigation into georgia secretary of state brad raffensperger who had the chimerty to say no when donald trump insisted he flip the results of the election. the lone democrat spoke out against doing this unprecedented investigation. she was loudly shouted down. in a new article titled georgia is our laboratory, inside trump s plan to rig 2024, rolling stone reports this. quote, the former president and his supporters have been making concrete step by step progress in shaping electoral processes to his benefit. across the state, maga die hards are devoting considerable resources to purging voting rolls, intimidating election officials, employing dirty tricks and ousting appointees who haven t been initiated into the cult of trump. it s the state where the republican party has total control over the levers of power. trump loving elements of the georgia gop have wielded that advantage in a crusade to turn election conspiracy theories into policies. it s an alarmingly anti-democratic experiment that trump planned and much of the republican party hope to take national. joining us now is adam ronsly, the reporter co-by-lines on the sprawling piece. thank you for being here. thanks for having me. so what are some of the steps that trump and his allies have taken to change the electoral process in georgia? so one of the most alarming ones that a source who has discussed this issue with trump told us, a republican attorney, is they re planning to challenge the election result regardless of the result. you know, we think of the threat to elections from trump s behavior in 2020 as only occurring in the event that trump loses. you know, at the current state of polling, trump is ahead in georgia, if you believe the polling, but what republican attorney who discussed this with trump told us is that, quote, you can t let the left get away with this cheating just because it didn t succeed, air quotes around cheating. and the plan is to challenge the result regardless of the outcome. and the intent behind that is essentially a permanent delegitimization of the election process. it s heads, i win, tails you lose. and i think you had mentioned this a little bit in your intro, is that one of the things people should be paying close attention to is that refusal to certify in the fulton county board of elections in the presidential primary. because one of the things that s very, very notable about that is that the attorneys who filed that lawsuit work for america first policies institute, which is a very trumpy organization filled with former trump folks. and what you see in those kinds of processes is the legal january 6th in miniature. essentially you re taking someone who is, you know, acting beyond their brief and trying to essentially insert themselves into the counting and, you know, assessment of vote tallies. adam, is this actually a fight in georgia? you note, i think, importantly, that georgia s a place where republicans control all of the levers of power. we just played the sound of one democratic member of the state elections board getting shouted down when she objected to what they were trying to do in terms of targeting raffensperger. is this fight joint where there is pushback against what they re doing or are they essentially running the table by changing processes to their own benefit? you know, they definitely have quite a built-in advantage. and i think that s why georgia relative to other battleground states is particularly interesting because it is more so than perhaps any other state a fight for the soul of the republican party. particularly when it comes to their faith in free and fair elections. and yeah, even folks like brian kemp, who was an absolute obstacle to trump s attempt to, you know, illegally overturn the election in georgia, brian kemp signed sb-202, a law that allows for a range of, you know, sort of procedural chicanery. joe biden called it jim crow in the 21st century. you know, even folks who have proven themselves to be obstacles to some of the more overt aspects of it sometimes will just go along to get along. and so they definitely do have an advantage. and they are running the table in certain ways, but you do see folks like you mentioned earlier, like ed lindsay, whose resignation letter we obtained in the story. people like that, you still do have these kind of principled republicans who are willing to stand up for what they believe in, but as you saw with the case of ed, you know, he had to resign under a great deal of pressure from not just president trump but from the grassroots of the party who believe in a lot of election conspiracies. yeah, the bare fact that a presidential candidate is personally lobbying to remove individual state elections board members ought to be on the front page of every paper of the country. been reported by adam, reporter at rolling stone. adam, the by-line reporters on the piece, georgia is our laboratory, thank you for helping us understand this. love to have you back. thanks so much for having me, rachel. i appreciate it. we ll be right back. stay with us. time stops. 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( ) gain flings. seriously good scent. let s get the rest of these plants in. organic soil from miracle-gro has grown me the best garden i have ever had. good soil, and you get good results. this soil will blow you away. it s the martha stewart of soil. to give your teeth a dentist clean feeling. start with a round brush head. add power. and you ve got oral-b. round cleans better by surrounding each tooth to remove 100% more plaque. for a superior clean. oral-b. brush like a pro. the promise of america is freedom, equality, but right now, those pillars of our democracy are fragile and our rights are under attack. reproductive rights, voting rights, the right to make your own choices and to have your voice heard. we must act now to restore and protect these freedoms for us and for the future, and we can t do it without you. we are the american civil liberties union. will you join us? call or go online to my aclu.org to become a guardian of liberty today. your gift of just $19 a month, only $0.63 a day, will help ensure that together we can continue to fight for free speech, liberty and justice. your support is more urgently needed than ever. reproductive rights are on the line and we are looking at going backwards. we have got to be here. we ve got to be strong to protect those rights. so please join the aclu now. call or go to my aclu.org and become an aclu guardian of liberty for just $19 a month. when you use your credit card, you ll receive this special we the people t-shirt member card magazine and more to show you re part of a movement to protect the rights of all people. for over 100 years, the aclu has fought for everyone to have a voice and equal justice. and we will never stop because we the people, means all of us. so please call or go online to my aclu.org to become a guardian of liberty today. organic soil from miracle-gro has grown me the best garden i have ever had. good soil, and you get good results. look at that! the broccoli was fantastic. that broccoli! i think some of them were six, seven pounds. could have been the heat, i suppose. temperatures were over 100 degrees at his outdoor campaign rally in las vegas yesterday. so hot, six people had to go to the hospital, and another two dozen had to get medical treatment on site. could have been the heat, i suppose. could also maybe have been that he was nervous about the fact that he was less than 24 hours away from his first meeting with his new york state probation officer. that meeting could be particularly nerve-racking for him because, you know, one of the things a probation officer asks you after you re convicted of felonies is if you have been associating with anyone who has a criminal record. that s worth noting because if he is ultimately sentenced to probation next month while he s on probation, he would not be allowed to associate with anyone with a criminal record. for a lot of people, that wouldn t be a big deal. for him, that s a big deal. that particular restriction eats away at his very close social circle. so maybe that was all distracting him. i don t know. he maybe had a lot i don t know. whatever the reason, he decided to venture into new territory in his campaign speech yesterday, less than five months out from the election. this is an important swing state. he decided with the land locked citizens of las vegas needed to hear about from him in order to be persuaded to vote for him was his fear of boats. heavy boats, boats with batteries near sharks. you know, nevada sharks. i know you have heard it happened. you may have seen a headline or scrolled past it on a social media feed. have you actually watched it? uncut, straight through, watched it unfold? it is very much worth watching. it s astonishing. my favorite part is the people you can see at the rally behind him who are really trying to follow along but who clearly have no earthly idea what uncle ramble standers is on about. just watch this. what would happen if the boat sank from its weight? and you re in the boat, and you have this tremendously powerful battery, and the battery is now underwater, and there s a shark that s approximately ten yards over there? by the way, a lot of shark attacks lately. did you notice that? i watched some guys justifying it today. well, they weren t really that angry. they bit off the young lady s leg because of the fact that they were they were not hungry but they misunderstood who she was. these people are crazy. he said there s no problem with sharks. they just didn t really understand a young woman swimming. really got desmaded and a lot of other people. i said so there s a shark ten yards away from the boat. ten yards. or here. do i get electrocuted if the boat is sinking, water goes over the battery, the boat is sinking. do i stay on top of the boat and get electrocuted or do i jump over by the shark and not get electrocuted because he didn t know the answer. he said, nobody has ever asked me that question. i said i think it s a good question. i think there s a lot of electric current coming through the water, but what i would do if there was a sharko you get electrocuted, i would take electrocution every time. i m not getting near the shark. we re going to end it for boats. we re going to end that, we re going to end it for boats. we re going to end it for boats. vote accordingly. call leaffilter today. and never clean out clogged gutters again. leaffilter s technology keeps debris out of your gutters for good. guaranteed. call 833.leaf.filter today, or visit leaffilter.com. 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