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Transcripts for MSNBC Dateline 20240604 06:32:00

Quick to punish if you crossed a line. he knew it was a, your life was not going to be as pleasant for a period of time. what did you think when you saw her treating sean that way? it made me angry. even so, shawn tried to stay loyal to his mom. but now, he was about to go against her in a way he had never imagined. he had seen the photos of dead bobsled, body contact and the agent, and now he and jen were turning up things for the investigation. we were coming across all these what we would call crazy, crazy documents. we couldn t wrap our brain around them. one of those documents was bob s will. bob had married before he had married martha ann he hadn t seen his daughter in a long time. he wanted nothing to do with her. i don t want you to know better death. i am leaving you $1 of my

Computer-shawn , Life , Way , Mom , Line , Photos , Body-contact , Dead , Bobsled , Things , Documents , Investigation

Transcripts for MSNBC Dateline 20240604 08:28:00

And suspicions? you go on, you don t have a choice. but i knew i would not let it drop. in the end, even though chuck was questioned at length, everything he did put under a microscope, this is suspicion appeared to be unfounded. the corner actually ruled it a suicide. and then, in the weeks and months after bob s death, as suspicions dissipated like the mist in the surrounding hills, chuck could once again walk with his head held high. when we did the veterans parade and knoxville, they put him on the top because he was the most highly decorated after the awful tragedy of bob s death, chuck got on with his life again and said goodbye to his dear friend, and comforted bob s widow, martha anne. oh boy. coming up, he s lost his

Chuck-kaczmarczyk , Everything , Suspicions , In-the-end , Length , Choice , Killing-bob-mcclancy , Death , Suicide , Hills , Suspicion , Microscope

Transcripts for MSNBC Dateline 20240604 08:05:00

Secretary known as the office wiz caught his eye. her name was martha anne was he crazy about martha anne? yes he was. he really was. i always respected my mom. she was very charming. highly intelligent. shawn was adopted as the baby, met jen as a teenager, she became his wife. where sean was from was not discussed at home, but then he had martha anne, the only mother he had ever known. a mother is the sun and the moon and the stars to a little kid. did it feel like she was? i was always told since a young age that, the only people you can trust, completely, are your parents. in the mid 90s, shawn s mom

Computer-shawn , Martha , Mom , Office , Name , Jen , Eye , Secretary , Wiz , Baby , Teenager , Martha-ann-he-hadn-t

Transcripts for MSNBC Dateline 20240604 08:18:00

when martha and was at work, chuck kept an eye on bob. chuck was right there. bob wasn t a downward spiral. martha and complained that bob was abusing his anti depressants, and martha anne and chuck found themself managing one painful scare after another. in one episode, they rushed bob to the va hospital more than three hours away passed out of the in the car. out of it. i understand they had to stop the car to do cpr on him. bob was stabilized, after he was deemed well enough, sent home. two days later, on the monday in may, martha and got up early and went to work as usual. she had arranged for chuck to check in on bob that afternoon. it was he who found bob, call 9-1-1. w arrived later to find police cars and ambulances and a frantic martha ann. so, the two of us just sat there and hugged each other and, bold, and just cried our eyes out.

Martha-ann-he-hadn-t , Killing-bob-mcclancy , Chuck-kaczmarczyk , Martha , Work , Another , Eye , Bob-wasn-t-a-downward-spiral , Scare , Episode , Anti-depressants , One

Transcripts for MSNBC Dateline 20240604 08:24:00

Flood of sorrow and guilt that he hadn t been there for his stepdad bob, as bob had been there for him. bob took care of me, every day. it will milk you feel close to a person? it did. then he tried, in vain, to ease martha anne s grief. i will talk about fun things we did with bob. that wouldn t happen anymore. then i would start balling, then she would start falling with me. to make it even worse, bob s best friend chuck had been taking away by sheriff s deputies. debbie watched as martha anne trying to deal with her own sorrow as she planned her husband s funeral, anxious at the same time for her friend, that the small town cops had the wrong idea about chuck.

Killing-bob-mcclancy , Care , Bob , Person , Hadn-t , Sorrow , Stepdad-bob , In-vain , Guilt , Flood , Martha-ann-he-hadn-t , Things

Transcripts for MSNBC Dateline 20240604 08:35:00

so we are on this cruise ship and every bit of it they are dressed matching. now, at mealtimes, when the waiter took orders, chuck spoke for martha ann. chuck would speak up and say, the lady will have and then he would order for her. when guests around the table rolled their eyes, said debbie, martha ann went stiff. and she said my mother taught etiquette. and a waiter would never have the nerve to speak to a lady. oh, my goodness. we were all just speechless, we were like, hello? do you know what century we are living in? we are allowed to order for ourselves. i was just absolutely floored that you would make a statement like that. a waiter would never have the nerve to speak to a lady. wow. and i thought, never one that is not chuck. but he would know what s right

Frantic-martha-ann , It , Chuck-kaczmarczyk , Lady , Waiter , Orders , Cruise-ship , Matching , Say , Mealtimes , Martha-ann-he-hadn-t , Best-friend-debbie

Transcripts for MSNBC Dateline 20240604 08:53:00

Travel schedule, and air duties i wanted to give you the best denim fifth of the doubt, but at the time when i told my oldest sister what was going on, she said oh, there is more to the story. kathy still wanted answers about her brother s death but, you know how people can start to sound like broken records? i think why family, friends, probably everybody was tired of hearing me say this isn t right, i know something had to have happened. when martha ann found the time to respond to kathy, she told her she was imagining things. did she accuse your meddling? yeah. she said, your brother always said that you always had to get in people s business, you can never just let things lie. and i guess that was true. i don t stop until i find out. then she said, martha and got even more snippy. she literally told me i needed psychiatric help. i needed to get over the fact

Sister , Pair-duties , Doubt , Travel-schedule , Denim-fifth , Something , Bob-sister-kathy , Family , People , Friends , Death , Story

Transcripts for MSNBC Dateline 20240604 08:47:00

wow, hey, anybody who volunteers to help is great. as the months went by, martha anne carved out time from his schedule to become association secretary. she was our recorder. yes. she was really good at taking down notes and making paper and so forth. association members were so impressed with the couple, that chuck was promoted to the board, he and martha traveled representing and making a mascot. there was time for fun as well. they reveled in the newfound happiness. they enjoyed the new responsibilities and of course also decided to live a little. just under nowhere, they said, we would certainly like to have an rv. my wife s, and, well my boss is selling a beautiful rv. of course they went and looked at the rv, they liked it a lot. so, they made him an offer. right next to the rv, chuck noticed a garage to anniversary edition corvette. tempting, we even though he had a mercedes convertible already. i said, i like corvette as

Martha-ann-he-hadn-t , Yes , Paper , Schedule , Anybody , Recorder , Notes , Association-members , Association-secretary , Wow , Chuck-kaczmarczyk , Couple

Transcripts for MSNBC Dateline 20240604 08:33:00

Death and may 2006. it was only natural, said debbie, that martha anne stay in touch with chuck. they shared a tremendous loss. chuck lost his best friend, martha ann lost her husband. their coach misreading. they are helping them each other through. this there was something. else chuck said that he was not feeling good. she was having issues with her back. but may sense and would produce her tours at home. barbara loved animals. but the menagerie was too much for martha and. so her son, shawn, helped her downsize. bob had an animal rescue in his home. he had seven dogs. a couple of cats, chickens, some goats. she started to get rid of all of these animals as soon as he had passed away. then there were other changes. weeks after bob s death, martha and invited debbie and her husband to celebrate chuck s birthday. dinner at chuck s place. when we got there, martha

Frantic-martha-ann , Chuck-kaczmarczyk , Something , Best-friend-debbie , Death , Chuck , Husband , Best-friend , May , Loss , Coach-misreading , Martha-anne-stay-in-touch

Transcripts for MSNBC Dateline 20240604 08:15:00

Flashes, nightmares, depression. he said to me one day, i m having a rough time at the moment. i haven t been sleeping well. he said, so, i will get up and i will sit in the chair in the hallway, and what worries me is if i fall asleep in the chair, and maybe are martha and would get up to go to the restroom, maybe i will attack her. he said, i m having issues. he said it kind of worries me. martha and told debbie she was very troubled. she said, i m trying. when i m at work, he will get into his pills. she said bob is abusing it. bob s sister kathy had also seen warning signs. how did you become aware that ptsd was really beginning to come a factor in his life that had to be dealt with? we have been out for thanksgiving, he had explained to me that right after the holidays there was a program, he was going to enter it. now it came up he was going

Haven-t , Chair , Nightmares , Sleeping , Hallway , Flashes , Depression , One , Martha-ann-he-hadn-t , Best-friend-debbie , Martha , Issues