barking dog and that appears to be what alerted the hostage s captors to what was going on. during the firefight that then followed, u.s. forpdss saw a militant go into the shack where the hostages were being held. it is believed that is when he shot both of the hostages, both of them died as a result of those injuries, as u.s. forces were transporting them away. u.s. intelligence did not know the identity of the other hostage being held with somers. he has since been identified as south african teacher pierre korkie. a char that worked with korkie says he was due to be released today. to discuss this and many of the other top stories for the week, joined by our panel, bring in democratic strategist basil smythe, jr., political consultant and former adviser to mitt romney, cater packer gauge and msnbc correspondent, casey packer hunt. obviously on this hostage story, we are learning the details, obviousiously a heartbreaking story, another report i know in the new york times this morning that apparently the south african who was being held about this american, this charitable group he worked with saying it had reached a dell for his freedom and obviously, that was destroyed by all this, too. another piece in it as well. just goes to show you i think that there was a failed mission a couple of weeks ago. all of these captors that isis has right now, the attempts to get them out, just how difficult it is to get any of these people back. and the obama administration has announced that they are going to review u.s. hostage policy, in part, because they have faced some criticism from the families of the people who have been held hostage and ultimately killed by isis and other groups much the one thing that the americans say they are not gonna change is whether or not they will pay ransom for a hostage and it sounds like from that preliminary reporting from the new york times that the south african group had actually paid a ransom or had been willing to and that he was set to be release and that you know, we didn t know that, the americans didn t know that when they went in. and all these isis stories, so many europeans held, yet these european governments, a lot of them don t admit it publicly, but privately, they pay the ransons and they get their people out. here of in the united states talked about the policy before, from the standpoint, wouldn t want to pay ran as soon as, the issues of the families, hey if the government doesn t want to pay it fine, can t i raise the money, can t i get my kid out, get my sop, my dur out? right. and there are legal issues there as well, but it s hard to tell a family that you cannot do that. it should be noted that as failed missions are not unusual, unfortunately, it goes took at least 1980 a mission in iran to free the hostages. are they changing tactics, not killed hostages before in this way. are they changing their tactic that may suggest we need to as well? if it s a response to isis. i think it does speak to a as the san francisco chronicle reports, minutes before the police disbursed the crowd, several concerts let out downtown, several concert gears waiting to neigh a nearby parking garage were sent running for cover. president obama this morning talking with b.e.t. net workers about this recent unrest in america. as painful as these incidents are, we can t equate what is happening now to what was happening 50 years ago and if you talk to parents, grandpar t grandparents, uncles, they will tell you that, you know, things are better, not good in some cases but better. typically, progress is in steps, it s in increments, you know, you re dealing with something as deeply rooted as racism or bias in any society, you got to have vigilance but recognize that it s going to take some time and you just have to be steady. that full interview, by the way, will air tomorrow night, 6 p.m. on b.e.t. basil, considering the president s role in all of this, the ferguson, decision no to go forward with the case was announced by the grand jury out there now, about two weeks ago, the president was on television within ten minutes. how have you assessed his leadership through this? i do think his leadership has been fine, he has been measured and i know there are some on the left that don t like that and conservatives don t like that s what they would say meddling in local matters. i think he has absolutely struck the right tone. what should be note it had is an be a sect failure of branches of government, particularly the judicial system and i think what what needs to happen going forward is that the president should, i know there is a federal investigation, should address the the actual issue here which are failures in criminal justice. this is going to impact also his nominee, loretta lynch, to the attorney general post. i know that she is gonna get significant questions on how she would go forward on some of these issues, but i think his tone was appropriate. i think he handled it fine. but we are waiting to see what s gonna happen with the federal investigation. loretta lynch angle on this is really interesting, casey, because she is as the u.s. attorney for this district involved in this case now, obviously, if she becomes the attorney general, potentially involved in anything that doj is doing. so, that just means this the decision is made here on whether federal charges had brought against garner is going to intersect with the confirmation politics in the senate. do we have a sense of how that is going to play out? absolutely, steph. i think the one thing that distinguishes ferguson, for example, from the garner case is you saw a remarkable amount of unity coming out of capitol hill saying there maybe a miscarriage of justice in this situation. i think the facts in the ferguson case have been much more sort of muddled and argued over. there are people who feel, you know, strongly that the police officer maybe acted in good faith. i think in this particular case, because of the video and because of the evidence that we had, everyone on capitol hill that i spoke to was pretty shocked that this came down the way it did and i think that while it can it has the potential to throw a wrench into her confirmation process, i think unless something particularly inflammatory happens with the investigation, there s nobody out there yet who is saying that pushing harder on this is gonna cause a problem for her. interesting, too loretta lynch, she political jobs in a way, she knows how to play politics and she has made alliances with people you might not expect, like rudy giuliani, for instance, very supportive. she came into it in a very strong position as well. when she was first announced, there was very little opposition to her, which is gonna help her in the long run. one of the reasons she was picked. let me ask you this, obviously, we have seen some of the initial polling after ferguson and what struck me about the polling after ferguson, we talked about this in the show a little bit yesterday, it really kind of hues to this basic partisan divide we see on almost any question and sort of the predictable groups go republican have one view of it the predictable groups that go democratic have one view.t i hear a lot of republicans saying this bothers me, too. haven t talked to anybody who has seen that video that suspect sort of shocked by what took place and feel like feels like there was just an overwhelming amount of violence in that situation that gives people pause. but not everything is a partisan issue. what there hasn t been a lot of talk about is the media s role in all of. this the fact of the matter is the protesters shall the people talking on either side of it, they don t have all of the information that these grand juries have offered to them. s s a little bit unfair to be second-guessing after the fact, not willing to sit down and look at the evidence the ferguson, we pretty much did get the evidence. we have it available. i m saying i don t think that too many people are actually sitting down and looking at all the evidence. there s a lot of sort of inflammatory reporting, in my opinion, that sort of gins this up and doesn t take the time to look at all the facts that are presented. and i do think that because of the video in the garper situation, it does seem much more clear but again, you still don t have all of the evidence that people are reviewing and poring over. but i do think what is fair and what the media has done very well is put voices on camera that are speaking to the inequities in the system and disparate treatment we are seeing in ferguson and in the eric garner case that tie those things together. look, cliven bundy is out in the west holding off federal marshals with advanced weaponry. he and his friends are standing on bridges with assault rifles pointing at u.s. maher shals but a man selling loose cigarettes gets choked to death and ten people are standing around him and are absolutely doing nothing. so, i don t think the media has inflamed anything. i think it is it is incumbent upon all of us really in situations like this to bring a lot of those voices to the table and say, yes, this is this treatment is disproportionate it is disparate and it s wrong. but the reality is that the criminal justice system, particularly in grand juries, you mentioned that, is where we need to have some real reform. they do not get vetted like trial jurors do and i think that needs change. all right. mo tore get to including some interesting comments from valerie jarrett about members of the obama administration. also, the latest on that rolling stone story about university of virginia and rape allegations. that s next. 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a magazine that sort of had an activist edge to this and they wanted to prove something they already they believed had happened without bothering i m still trying to figure out exactly how something like this happens, in terms of failure on a journalism level, i can t remember something this bad recently? steve, i think for this subject in particular, it s a shame that this has happened in part because it is so hard for so many of these victims to come forward. you have someone, and clearly the woman at the center of this story had something terrible and traumatic happen to her. now the magazine is struggling to figure out which details line up right and which ones don t. that is up to them. every time something like this happens it sets back the overall goal of making sure victims are believed, not written off, stories are true, so much that goes into feel like they can t come forward because they are not going to be believed and i think that, you know this is a major journalistic sin but as will for our community as a whole as people are trying to combat sexual assault. this was a story that i have three nieces that are on colleges campuses today and it was a story when i saw it that i immediately share ready with family members, because it sort of terrifies you. to kasie s point, i think it does setback the ability to get people to come forward. you know, there s a lot of things that are worrisome. i think that when a journalist makes a deal that they are not going to talk to the accused, i think that s a dangerous place to be. i think it s also a dangerous police to be when colleges decide that they are gonna try to handle these things internally and not turn something that s felony immediately over to law enforcement. so all of those things, you know, sort of give you pause about this. part of it, basil, you read how this came together, there was a point apparently in the reporting where jackie didn t want to be part of this in i more, you know what i don t want to go down this road. rolling stone basically strong armed her, no, we are doing this and hey this is running either way, you want to talk to us or not, we are running this either way, that s lot on rolling stone. and i think it specs to your point you hope it doesn t have a chilling effect. if a victim wants to report the story, wants to report what s happened to them, wants to go forward and talk to the police, whether the campus police are handling it or the local pd will be handling it, you don t want a situation where she s being forced to sort of come out and then not have control of the story of the details of the incident after that. and it looks like, you know, and i hope this doesn t happen, i hope that aring the rolling stone apology doesn t sort of cut off the conversation about what happened to her but you certainly don t want a chilling effect going forward. the university of virginia actually in their statement, i think to their credit, said, okay, well, these questions. coming out about this story but, you know what, this is still a conversation we need to have. we still need to be focused on making sure that we limit or end sexual assaults on campus. for a publication like rolling stone , too, what do they do now, a brand name in american journals and rolling stone around forever. each institution has to grapple with this. changing this apology in some ways is a red flag, how you handle this is really if something like this happens, how the s handled and the aftermath says a lot about the institution, what they are committed to. so i m not sure that changing your apology and not mentioning the fact that you changed your apology was yeah, the instincts, too the first apology they ran, it was just so much like trying to push this off, oh, we got fooled, we got hoodwinked here, something like that. that didn t look good either. there s a lot of these cases that occur and clearly, they gravitated toward a particularly inflammatory case because it would sell and it would cause page views and i think that s on the editorial team, you have got something so incendiary that you are, you know, crossing all the its and dotting all theisms, clearly, they didn t do that that was the thing that struck me reading it all the important sort of institutional questions about uv a, its response, the response of colleges to all of this, they are in this arm and there are important things to be raised. almost as if they said, you know what that s not gonna get the page views what is gonna get the page views is the anecdote, we need the anecdote at the top of it, when they get into trouble and raising all the questions. say thanks to, bass the spikele, jr., katie packer gains. kasie will be with us later. and anger over one of president obama s nominees from an unlikely source, his own party. that s next. 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here to discuss is msnbc contributor jared bernstein, who is also a senior fellow at the center of budget and policy pries and was vice president president obama s chief economic adviser and lenore pal dean know, economist and vice president of policy and outreach at the liberal think tank, demost. thank you for joining us. lenore, let me start with you. the case against weiss this is a member of the president s party, campaigned for obama s re-election, done work on the issue of raising taxes on the wealthy to combat inequality, why is that a bad choice for this position? so i think we have to step become and look what the this position actually is. it is somebody at treasury who deals with domestic finance and the implementation of dodd frank, i think two qualifications we need. one is someone who has deep experience with domestic regulation and the other is somebody who is independent from wall street, somebody who is going to be willing to disagree with them and i think that does he have regulatory experience? not that i m aware of. he is a corporate m & a guy. his experience is really in international corporate business mergers and also this $21 million payout he is getting from lazzard to go into public service that really calls into question independence from wall street. okay, jared, that is the case against. what do you make of that? i think both lenore and senator warren make a lot of good points. i think, from my own experience, it really matters a lot who s in the room when you re making economic policy at this level. however, i think they are different rooms, for this. radio, for the undersecretary of domestic finance, i think it s helpful to have someone with the kind of market experience that antonio weiss brings to the table. lenore didn t mention one of the most important parts of the job, that s managing the stock of our national debt, $17 trillion in debt that this undersecretary has to be sure to finance in a way that s highly efficient. if you look at this guy s career, he has spent decades in international markets dealing with global finance. in fact, it s hard for me to realize, and i i would argue that senator warren has failed to really name a person who would be appropriate in this position who doesn t have this kind of market background and experience. jared, is it a concern to you, no experience unless no experience in terms of regulation, no regulatory experience? well, in fact, if you re sitting across the table doing mergers and acquisition and the kinds of advice that lazzard provides to firms, you know a lot about where those skeletons are buried. what really matters in this position, somebody with regulatory ex-peer enwhy, hard pressed to find many in this kind of position who had that kind of experience and that they have the kind of sensibility that senator warren is looking for. and here, i know antonio weiss a little bit and he actually is very much in favor of the kind of rigorous oversight that senator warren and frankly myself think is important. we shouldn t judge him just on the basis of this wall street kind of label that s been attached. lenore is there an argument to be made, i wonder what you make of the argument that because he is so close to wall street, because that s his background, because he knows so closely, so intimately how it works it would put him in position to sort of know the trick, to know, hey if this is the regulation this is the workaround they are going to tray to come up. you want somebody like that, sort of like at the casinos, they hire the guy that knew how to beat the game, beat the house, hire him for security. is there an an analogy there? i think it is about the mix of regulators enough treasury and we know how much that ineffective financial regulation led to the last crisis, i don t know antonio weiss. i m sure s very smart guy and could do a good job. the question is really who would be the best person for this position at this time. do you have so do you have somebody else? jared was thinking i don t. but i think there s a number of other consumer advocates, financial regulatory experts, people who have really been in the sausage making, in and around treasury for a long time who would be great fits for the position. let me make a point about that, steve, you know, it s important to recognize that mr. weiss, as an undersecretary, will be working under the deputy secretary, sarah bloom rasken. this is someone who has a long history of consumer advocacy and someone who senator warren really championed and recognized as really i think the type of regulate they re both lenore and i recognize is important to have up there, that s basically going to be mr. weiss s boss, if he is confirmed, and she will be driving the regulatory train. that makes me feel a little better about. this here is one thing, jerry, my impression from afar watching elizabeth warren in this, also interested in making a statement and having the democratic party make a statement that a democratic party that s had such a close relationship with wall street and wall street that caused so much pain in people s lives the last decade, using this as an opportunity to tell people, you know what, we are looking away from wall street for a change. suspect there an argument to be made for doing it symbolically? it is a great argument. half of my article was completely underscoring that argument. let me tell you something from the inside that i think is very important and really isn t part of that argument. when i worked for the obama administration as an economist and we were trying to craft dodd frank and dealing with the recession and recovery act, the folks on the other side of my progressive/warn/lenore kind of arguments were not necessarily people with wall street experience. i m not going to name names but the folks that i was arguing against often didn t come from wall street. so, you know, that kind of a litmus test may not be really what s warranted here, no pun intended. lenore, final word on this. i think we have to look at what would be the best fit for this position at this time and i don t think antonio weiss is it. all right. to be continued on this one. my thanks to lenore paladino from demoss, jared bernstein, center of budget and policies. appreciate you joining us this morning. thank you. over a decade since the debut of the bush doctrine and this week, we have a preview of the jeb bush doctrine. we will dissect it. that s next. alright, so this tl arthritis lasts 8 hours, but aleve can last 12 hours. and aleve is proven to work better on pain than tylenol arthritis. so why am i still thinking about this? how are you? aleve, proven better on pain. i m there to do the safest job possible - not only for them, but everybody, myself included that lives in the community. i m very proud to do the work that i do and say that i am a lineman for pg&e because it s my hometown. it s a rewarding feeling. jeb bush s biggest liability may be his last name, and that is because of george w. bush, chaos in iraq that dragged down george w. bush s approval rating, the poisonous depths in second term as president and haunted his legacy since. on tuesday, jeb bush, now eyeing a 2016 presidential bid of his own, delivered a 20-minute speech some are describing as the jeb bush doctrine. a meeting of the anti-castro u.s. cuba democracy pac in south florida, bush laid out what he thinks america s role in the world should be. we need to have a policy not of unilateralism, although no option should ever be taken off the table. both our country and our president should never negotiate in advance any kind of consideration, but we need a policy of engagement. even he s gently inched away from his brother, bush reserved his harshest criticism for president obama. our allies don t trust us and our enemies don t fear us. there is no situation worse for stability and peace than that. the iron rule of superpower deterrent is mean it when you say it. so, how much is jeb bush really separating himself from george w. bush s foreign policy legacy? how effective will it be? joining me now is former george w. bush campaign adviser mark mckinnon, now a columnist for the daily beast and co-founder of no labels and msnbc political reporter, kasie hunt, is here with me in the studio. mark, you know this family very well and think of policy and the bushes and i think of george bush senior, the first george bush had a chance to go into baghdad, absolutely wouldn t do it the son absolutely did do it. when you look at jeb bush, which one is easy, the restraint of the father or sort of the let s go in there spirit of the son? well, probably a mix of the two. you know, first of all, when you see a governor giving a major foreign policy speech, that s pretty clear indication that he s running. two i would say that i think people saw this speech and conservatives recognize that s, a, really serious on the policy side and very conservative, he s got his own doctrine, very much focused on central and south america and terrorism there, cyber security, so, he is really, talking about going his own way and forging his own foreign policy, but it s a real flag that s getting sear juice about i mean, does he believe, i was going back and looking at the speech, hard for me to say, but that idea that sort of animated his brother, animated george w. bush s presidency of just this, the power of sort of testimony mock krk k testimony mock krit testimony mock krit tizization, has he learned from thafrom that? jeb bush thinks we should lean forward, lead from in front and words matter. that would be part of the jeb doctrine. i wonder how the republican universe looks at this, aware of the political baggage that comes with the bush name and bush foreign policy tradition, people in the republican party who still believe in it. where is the republican party now, what are they looking for when it comes to foreign policy in a couple things on jeb bush and certainly any candidacy would be cast in late of his brother and iraq. tough think about what s happened since then, namely, president obama and the raise of senator rand paul. and i think hearing from bush, our words need to mean something that is very much a reflection of the republican party s overall thinking on this president, which is he likes to say things, likes to draw red lines. red lines on syria. likes to not follow through. they are looking, i think, for a candidate who is who will push forward with that, we are going to mean what we say. but also, with senator paul there is some significant concern on in those factions of the republican party, whether you want to call them neoconservative, not convince they had would call themselves neoconservative anymore, those particular people concerned about israel. john mccain, lindsey graham. sheldon adeleson a key one, some of big donors, they are looking for somebody who sounds a lot more like jeb bush than rand paul. mark is that one way to maybe interpret this, governors, when delivering foreign policy addresseses that is a pretty clear sign what they are thinking, i agree with that, lack at the con of this speech, telling the types of people in the republican party that kasie was talking about, lack, you re scared of rand paul, i can be the guy who beats rand paul? no question, he has firmly established himself to the right of rand paul and ted cruz, which is a real faction now on foreign policy, so this is really separating himself and also laying down a marker that s very conservative. let s put this in a little bit of broader perspective, a poll that came out last week, the republican field, jeb bush, chris christie, you know, sort of running together near the top there, sometimes they throw mitt romney into these things, too, and mitt romney ends up into the lead. there was a story this week, we can also show this, from business insider this week saying romney met recently his inner circle, some emerged convinced that s running. we have been hearing this off and on, mark mckinnon what do you make of the mitt romney stuff? is this just a great smoke screen? an ego trip by a guy getting a few fremonts of press here? do you think there s any chance he runs? could be our adlai stevenson. i think there is a chance he could. that i saw that as a significant signal this week and in reality, you look at the field and he he thinks he could be the establishment candidate again. and you know, it s also something to be said for having run a couple of tapes, he has got hiss down well, a good candidate, especially in the republican primaries, sitting, having to get out there and deal in the trenches, a lot of candidates. would he if jeb bush wants to run, does jeb bush sort of get right of first refusal, romney run if bush ran or only if bush doesn t? you know, he says he doesn t care what the bush what jeb bush would do. i don t think that s really true. i think if jeb bush gets in, he is going to throw a pretty wide net on the establishment money and support. kasie, i wonder what you make i saw this poll we put up there with bush at 14%, christie, 11%. we think of the bush name, we of the reputation this is the establishment guy this is the one they can all kind of rally around. i m saying, 14% awfully i remember when george w. bush set out in 2000 to run in polls lick this, he was at lick 40%. you re down to 14 now for jeb bush. are we overstating the appetite that s there in the republican party for him? i think that, look, very early polls of the an reflection of name recognition, the bush name is immediately gonna put you should be higher than 14, right? i think what it shows, unlike on the democratic side, hillary is absolutely blowing out the rest of the field there is no one dominant choice for republicans. they have a huge potential field and that s why i think these questions of who s in and who s out are actually going to end up being pretty critical. i would say, his name is there, but what you were talking about as far as who gets the early money, who gets the establishment support, that s gonna sort of say, signal who on that giant long list of candidates, which ones are gonna get squeezed out before they even really have a chance to step forward and to move their number up higher? mark mckinnon, quick one-word answer here, we know he is interested in jeb bush, do you think he runs, yes or no? i think s in. all right. held you to the one-word answer. holding to you that, mark. mark mckinnon, appreciate you joining us from the daily beast. ms in. bc s kasie hunt. thank you for being with us this morning. election night is not over yet, the official final close 33 days later on the other sid of this break. still ahead this morning, our interview with bernie sanders. stay with us. rol. enthusiast. mmm, a perfect 177-degrees. and that s why this road warrior rents from national. i can bypass the counter and go straight to my car. and i don t have to talk to any humans, unless i want to. and i don t. and national lets me choose any car in the aisle. control. it s so, what s the word?. sexy. go national. go like a pro. you know i tried one of those but the roll just disappeared. bounty is 2x more absorbent so one roll lasts longer. bounty. the long lasting picker upper come in and use your starbucks gift card any day through january 5th for a chance to win starbucks for life. i have $40,ney do you have in your pocket right now? $21. could something that small make an impact on something as big as your retirement? i don t think so. well if you start putting that towards your retirement every week and let it grow over time, for twenty to thirty years, that retirement challenge might not seem so big after all. hi. i m new ensure active clear protein drink. clear huh? i m not juice or fancy water. i ve got 8 grams of protein. new ensure active clear protein. 8 grams protein. zero fat. ensure. take life in. my baby drove up in a brand new cadillac. my baby drove up in a brand new cadillac. look here, daddy, i m never coming back. discover the new spirit of cadillac and the best offers of the season. lease this 2015 standard collection ats for around $329 a month. we have breaking election news for, nbc news has now called the 36th and final senate election of the year. louisiana democratic senator mary landrieu has officially now been defeated in her bid a fourth term. this in last night s runoff, she lost by a sound margin. bill cassidy, the republican congressman, 56%, landrieu, only 44% that will make cassidy the 54th republican vote mitch mcconnell s new republican senate majority in january. with landrieu s defeat, there will be no democratic senators left from a deep south state. and our next hour, we are going to explore what happened to the southern democrats taking the deep dive with an assist from our big board. but up first, colonel jack jacobs will get a turn of his own at the big board to help explain what went wrong in that failed hostage rescue in yemen but. enweslplus, wesley clark wi here to explain his analysis. stay with us. i have a cold with terrible chest congestion. better take something. theraflu severe cold doesn t treat chest congestion. really? 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what s supposed to happen there is a lot of planning, meticulous execution and in order to do that, lots and lots of rehearsals but they didn t have the luxury of time here because the expectation was that al qaeda was gonna execute somers so they had to just go with whatever they had. they had a plan and to execute it as quickly as possible, without all the rehearsals that were necessary under normal circumstances. you re in an area over here, the objective is somewhere in south central yemen and you position the assets nearby in the gulf of aden. in this particular case, aboard the uss macon , a ship that typically has lots of rotary winged aircraft, including blackhawks and ospreys like this, tiltrotor aircraft, carry a lot of special operators into the objective area. once you re there, you figure out exactly where you re gonna go, let s say this is the objective, small compound in south central yemen. you don t want to land on top of the objective, cause you lose the element of surprise. instead, you land some distance away where they can t hear you and then infiltrate your force under the cover of darkness, took place after midnight and then attract objective. in this instance, they were alerted there were some people who were awake, they saw the attacking force and as a result, a firefight ensued. once the firefight s over, you secure the objective and then you bring in rotary winged aircraft, like the ospreys and blackhawks in order to evacuate casualties, enemy who are captured, intelligence material, the hostages and so on, you bring them back to the uss macon or a similar ship and then out of the area. this is an extremely difficult operation to pull off and much, much different than a lot of the operations people have in mind using special operations forces. yeah, colonel, on that, what do we have a sense, when talking about going into a place lake this where you re trying to rescue people, trying to get them out alive, what the odds are of success for pulling something like this off. not as good as going in, for example, going in and getting osama bin laden if you re going to attack to kill or capture enemy, oddly, it s much easier to do that than it is to go into an area like this and not only kill or capture the enemy, but be able to isolate the hostages from the enemy and bring the hostages out alive, extremely difficult to do. doesn t succeed nearly as often as the as the attacks to kill and capture the enemy, very, very tough operation. and done with very little warning. so these things, your honor to the unfortunately, don t come out successfully. we haven t learned the details yet, any lessons that jump out to you from the experience in this failed mission that we could learn for future ones? you know, we had the opportunity to do this before and the mission failed. the mission failed, went about a couple of weeks ago to go snatch him but we didn t get him, we didn t get him because the intelligence wasn t up to speed. they had moved somers just a day before we went into the area. we were able to get some other hostage bus not somers and points out how important good intelligence is. overhead satellites, we do a lot of that, eavesdropping on telephone conversations. there s nothing there s nothing that will compete with good intelligence that will contribute to the successful accomplishment of the mission and so, the lesson here is you got to be vigilant. you got to keep on top of the intelligence. any time somebody is moved, you got to know about it and you have to be able to develop intelligence on the ground. extremely difficult to do in a place like this. in other areas like iraq and afghanistan, they built up areas lots easier because we have people on the ground talking to other people on the ground, place like this, extremely difficult to do. so, the lesson here is stay on top of your intelligence. all right, colonel jacobs, the big board used for non-election stuff, very good job, very informative. appreciate that. straight ahead, we will continue this conversation from the perspective of a retired four-star general, former nato supreme commander wesley clark will be here later. and senator bernie sanders joins us with not just the will he or won t he question about running for president but also the why. you won t want to in miss that. stay with us. it s not about how many miles you can get out of the c-max hybrid. it s about how much life you can fit into it. the ford c-max hybrid. with an epa-estimated range of 540 miles on a tank of gas. and all the room you need to enjoy the trip. go stretch out. go further. don t drive or use machinery until you know how lyrica affects you. those who have had a drug or alcohol problem may be more likely to misuse lyrica. having less pain. it s a great feeling. ask your doctor about lyrica today. it s specific treatment for diabetic nerve pain. is t did the u.s. have any choice? thanks for staying with us this sunday morning. next week at this time, the federal government could be shut down, yet again. we are gonna ask two prominent congressmen, one democrat, one republican, whether a deal can be reached before this friday s deadline. also senator bernie sanders from vermont will be here to talk about his plan to rebuild the middle class and maybe his plans to run in 2016. we begin this hour with the new details emerging this morning about the failed operation to rescue american hostage, luke somers. he and another hostage from south africa were killed in the raid bay the al qaeda militants who had been holding them. nbc s kristen welker joining us live from the north lawn of the white house with the latest. kristen? reporter: steve, good morning. i have been talking to senior administrations officials throughout the weekend and one u.s. official describes the rescue mission as a multiagency whole of government effort. it started overnight on thursday. you will remember that s when have a of luke somers was leased by his al qaeda captors who threatened to kill him on saturday. so, we are talking about yesterday. intelligence officials say that they determined the threat was credible. they believe that somers captors would, in fact, kill him yesterday. they also had credible intelligence about somers whereabouts base olden their part to initially rescue him. you will recall that happened last month, steve. all of that set off a series of meetings from the pentagon, the state department and right here at the white house. on friday, the president s national security team, i am told, recommended unanimously that mr. obama approve the mission. he and secretary of defense chuck hagel, who is, of course, outgoing, gave the green light on friday morning. here is how the mission all went down. on friday night, dozens of navy s.e.a.l.s landed about two miles from their target. the american commandos reached what is being described as a cluster of buildings and this s where somers was being held. once the al qaeda captors realized what was happening though, that s when a gun fight broke out. somers and that south african who you mentioned, pierre korkie, were discovered gravely wounded, apparently shot by their captors. they were airlifted, treated by medics, airlifted to as you navy ship but both ultimately died of their wounds. now the u.s. special forces did kill between six to nine al qaeda captors and i am told at this point, it appears as though no civilians were killed when ask if the white house had second thoughts about the mission, one u.s. official told merck look, the president still feels it was the right decision to try to rescue somers because the intelligence about his location was reliable, he was in that exact location. in a statement yesterday, president obama said the u.s. would spare no effort to use all of its military intelligence and diplomatic capabilities to bring americans home safely wherever they are located. meanwhile, steve, we are also hearing from his friends and his colleagues today in a statement, his stepmother describes somers as a talented photographer with a sensitive for the people and people s lives. i spoke with one of his colleagues who works at pbs news hour but who had spent some time in yemen as well, steve. that person telling me that he just can t believe that this happened to luke somers. that entire community of people who are his friends and his family just in shock this morning. steve? all right, kristen welker live at the white house. thanks for joining us this morning much appreciate that. absolutely. thanks. we are joined nowby retired u.s. army general, wesley clark, former supreme allied commander of nato, former presidential candidate, also author. new book don t wait fort next war. general, welcome, thanks for being with us. so i mean, listening to what kristen just outlined there, it certainly seems, you know, seems like there was no choice but to take a shot at this, the alternative, they were gonna kill him anyway. the same time, you hear about how this went down, basically, the minute that al qaeda realized that there was a rescue attempt being made, they went in and killed him. and it just raises the question, how can you get these hostages out alive if that s what you re facing? sometimes you can get in there with good ingems and you can surprise the enemy and you can get the hostage, sometimes you re not going to succeed. all everyone connected in this operation understood the risks but you re faced with the issue of do you let it happen or do you take action, because it s not only about the life of that hostage. in this case, two hostages, but it s also about how you protect americans going forward. it s about whether you increase the value of americans as targets for terrorist kidnappings or whether you put fear in the hearts of al qaeda and convince them that they will never get away with it. maybe you won t rescue every hostage, but you will never had a team that s holding those hostages that s ever safe and secure. and we will destroy those people who are taking those hostages, time after time, whenever they attempt to do some and that s the united states policy. this is a long, multiyear, maybe multidecade effort in this region. we are gonna see more of this, as long as they continue to take americans hostage. and i hope the united states is gonna be effective in persuading other governments, including governments like the government of south africa, which reportedly paid money to have the other hostage released, not to do that. we have got to work together and we have got to break this al qaeda hostage taking. let me ask you this, i just cause this summer and early fall, we had a spate of stories about isis, isis taking hostages, beheading them, being paid ransoms by some european governments, the united states, the uk refusing to do so. this is a different group this is al qaeda in the arabian peninsula doing this is there do you have a sense that maybe there are other groups like this group, like al qaeda and the arabian peninsula that maybe saw what isis was doing this summer and sort of a copycat thing now? well, it s the way the terrorists can make money. so, if? a tactic that works, then there will be copycat cells all over north africa kand the middle east who will look for americans who were in there for all the right reasons. they will seize them, they will demand payments. they will hold them. so, this is a problem throughout the region, it s not just a single organization, it s the way they make money. the reports from last summer indicated that isis had made millions and millions of dollars from hostage taking. we know this somali pirates in an earlier period were making money off hostage taking and we know we have terrorist cells across north africa and into countries like nigeria with boko haram, who would do this if they could get their hands on the right americans and thought they could pull it off or the right europeans. so, yes this is a threat throughout the region. the other thing is i wonder what you would say, how would you say, from a standpoint of policy, let me put it this way, from a standpoint of policy what you are saying about why we should never pay ransoms, i totally understand, the policy of the united states, but when talking to one of these families has a son, a daughter, who is being held by these groups, and that family is made aware that, hey, if we can just raised 1 million, $2 million, somehow we can come one that money ourselves, we will see our son again and if we don t, we won t. how do you tell that family to resist that urge? well, there s two issues here, one is even if the money s raised, you may or may not get your loved one back, because delivering this money and having the hostage released, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn t, sometimes it s a matter of back and forth communication is the price gets raised. secondly, i think that all the american people and those families know that they want their government to be involved trying to bring these people back to freedom. now, these european governments, south african governments, they don t have the capacities to mount a rescue operation. so, they buy it off. but by buying it off, you re feeding the threat and you re making more likely that other families and other loved ones will suffer the same fate afterwards. so i think in this case, it s one of those terrible things, if you re a family and you ve got a loved one that s going into that area, then i think you have to be aware of the risks and you have to really think again about doing this, because these people are in danger, they are targeted, they are like a walking cash cow for terrorists. so, got to really think hard about whether we want to do that or not. we obviously had the intelligence, sufficient intelligence to find out pretty much exactly where they were being held, the two hostages being held for this mission to begin and apparently, previous effort recently where they had been moved at the last minute which raises the question, a group like al qaedaed in the arabian peninsula, groups like isis, we always talk about our intelligence to find out where they are, how good is their intelligence to know where we are? well, they do have intelligence, you know, and they are getting better and better at it you know, a decade ago when the united states first started, it wasn t that easy for them they didn t understand the technology, the techniques, the hard wake the way we operate, they have gotten better and better at this, yes, you can buy commercial satellite imagery. you can probably buy electronic eavesdropping. you can listen on youtube and hear people talk and report things that perhaps shouldn t be reported. we are getting a tremendous amount of information, let s say, about russian activities in ukraine by simply monitoring youtube and watching what people post on facebook. so, there are ways in which information leaks out, but i d like to think that our ability to protect our own movements and our own intentions is pretty good. and it s able to be controlled and especially when you have an aircraft carrier or an am fab off the coast like this and it s moving. yes, it may have been seen in a port and yes, there may be fishermen out there who can see things and who knows, but we know how to sanitize that area, if we have to. and we can do that. so, i m sure we will be tightening up our own intelligence and counterintelligence procedures after this. all right, retired army general wesley clark, thanks for joining us this morning. thank you. all right, how the holidays are threatening to bring another government shutdown bay the end of this week. we will investigate the why and whether it can be prevented with two people in a position to stop it. that s next. i was just looking at your credit report site. do you guys have identity theft protection? 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republican congressman charlie dent of pennsylvania, democrat bill pascrell of new jersey, both sides of the aisle, they join us now. thanks for joining us. congressman dent, i will start with you on the republican side, how confident are you right now that there will not be a shutdown this week? i am very confident there is not going to be shut down. i thank you a lot of my colleagues learned a regard lesson a little over a year ago and certainly no education to be gained by the second kick of the mule and certainly no wisdom from the third or fourth kick. but to listen to some of the rhetoric coming out of there, it sounds like there s an appetite, especially because this executive action thing, to find some way to undo it through playing with funding for dhs and well there are a handful of members who, you know, i think would take must that direction. but overwhelmingly, think most of the members in the house, you know, want to pass the cromny bus or omnibus or at least move forward, clear the decks now so we can start the new year with a fresh agenda. congressman pascrell, it might come to you as a democrat to provide a critical vote to get this thing passed, if a handful of republican, a dozen of them, a couple dozen of them say, you know, this isn t enough, we don t want to vote for this bill, you re going to need democrats to get it across, this bill, the one we outlined there, something we have to live with? we have to pass the legislation but we don t have to be handmaidens, we don t have to let them vote first and then vote, let them put up their votes, not all of the let it go down and then let it come back or yeah, it s some way it will pass, hopefully by 3:00 thursday afternoon. some way it will pass. but we don t have reasonable members, like charlie kent accident on the other side. charlie dent is not an exception, a lot of good republicans who think and try to resolve their problems. but the majority, i think, are caught up in being pushed by the tea party folks and they have gotten away with it for a couple of years and they are going to continue to do it. i mean, they use this immigration thing as an excuse, if it wasn t immigration, it would be something else. there s no doubt about t. they want the showdown. absolutely, they want a showdown on every situation. and to hold homeland security hostage, charlie, to me, is a pretty particularly in the situation we are going to right now throughout the world, is not the right way to do this. in my opinion. so, if this gets through this week, it means that funding for the whole government is basically good for a year, except funding for the department of homeland security, which would come up again early next year and then your party or would want to fight that all over again then? no, actually, my preference is to pass an omnibus, all 12 you want everything passed? i want it all passed. what they are putting together not 12. i serve on the homeland security committee and i helped draft that bill, a lot of good stuff in there, i don t particularly want to cr that, kick that into the new year because come february or march, we will pass the homeland security at prop preyations bill, i would just assume pass it now, this week. that s my preference, if the votes aren t there bill said s clever guy, bill, he is a friend, look, he is smart, he thinks the republicans, the republicans should put the votes up, 218 before one democrat should vote for it i don t blame them. what i would do but we should but the point is if there aren t the votes for the cromny bus, i would say pass the omnibus. the way it was explained to merck the sort of tea party crowd wants to fight over the immigration executive action and that, hence they want to put dhs funding on the table. but even if you stopped dhs funding, the way this thing is being implemented it would still go forward is that right? pretty much. much of the u.s. citizens immigration service, uscis is funding through fees and they are gonna get their fees, regardless. so, yeah, i don t think it s a particularly good tactic. i think the way that we republicans should respond to the president s executive action on immigration is by passing some immigration bills in the new year. that s what the president wants. and that s exactly what the president s strategy is, charlie and that is you have the senate bill for so long, you didn t do anything. i don t mean you personally, you didn t do it, the president said i m going to do something about tax critical thing. if immigration is broken, this is my response to it and you have time to pass legislation to undo what i m trying to do rather than let s go to court, let sue the president. come on, that s not gonna go any place. well, first, look, the president s executive action, i think he overstepped his authority, even the washington post editorialized this is a sweeping step. that said well, they are not the litmus test of what s legal and not legal here. this is a whole class of people that the president has, you know, has suspended deportations from. i think this is unprecedented. you agree with it though? what if we voted on that tomorrow? what if we voted to do what the president did in executive orderer? would you vote for that? let me tell you what i will do. i will vote on a step-by-step basis for several immigration bills. i don t want to do one big comprehensive bill. i want to do border security, i want to do interior enforcement, e-verify, children, you can accompanied children and i m prepared to have an honest, adult conversation about the 11 million people in this country unlawfully and deal with them in a way that i think will be and you may. you want to deal with them humanelism and i well, congressman that might be with the republicans increasing their majority in the house that sort of piecemeal approach, what goodlatte has been talking about that may be the reality of what they pursue there, do you see any common ground there, okay there under certain circumstances? most of what they might suggest and i haven t seen it in writing about we do this individually, step-by-step, i can agree with. i wish they could have done that with health care, but they didn t, chose not to do that. i think that we are gonna have a long fight over immigration regardless of what happens, whether the president did this last week or not, doesn t matter. i think we are going to have a long fight over. this and i think border security is a ruse. i think if it wasn t that, they would get something else in order to hold up immigration. the system is broken, we need a change and if the chamber of commerce is for it, it can t be so bad, charlie. let me ask but this, we have limited time left, cause we heard this after the 2012 election, if there s one thing the two parties are gonna agree on after this, it s immigration reform. we just finished the 2014 election, didn t happen. by the time the 2016 election comes around, do you think congress will have passed ant president will have signed some comp mean sive form of immigration reform? yes. i believe we will see some progress on immigration reform. i can t say we will pass every piece of it but i think certainly think you will see it on things like border security, e-verify, s.t.e.m. workers and hopefully agricultural workers at the very least, maybe the children. senator a little less confident. my thanks to bill pascrell from new jersey, charlie dent from pennsylvania. appreciate you joining us this morning. a new proposal by president obama to improve policing but will it work? that s next. right strip and pow, it opens your nose up to 38% more. so you can breathe and do the one thing you want to do, sleep. add breathe right to your cold medicine shut your mouth and sleep right. breathe right. and look for the calming scent of new breathe right lavender, in the sleep aisle. last night, police used tear gas to disburperse protesters i berkeley, california. some in the crowd broke windows and looted stores. one of the demands made by protesters in recent weeks, demand made by the family of unarmed teen michael brown who was killed by police officer darren wilson in august and demand has been for police to wear body cameras to capture their interactions with the public. and that idea got a major boost this week from president obama. the president is proposing $75 million in federal spending to help state and local police departments outfit their officers with cameras. i think ferguson laid bare a problem that is not unique to st. louis or that area, and is not unique to our time. and that is a simmering distrust that exists between too many police departments and too many communities of color. i m going to be proposing some new community policing initiatives that will significantly expand funding and training for local law enforcement, including up to 50,000 additional body-worn cameras for law enforcement agencies. obama s proposal follows experiments with body cameras in cities nationwide. new york city the nation s largest police force, started their body cam pilot program this weekend. but then in new york city this week, this also happened, a grand jury dexlined to indict new york city police officer daniel pantaleo in the choke hold death of eric garner, even though garner s death was recorded on camera by a bystander. even after seeing garner held by the throat by police, even after hearing garner cry i can t breathe 11 times, the grand jury still declined to issue an indictment. are body cameras the policy response we need to improve law enforce n this country? joining me to answer that question, baltimore mayor stephanie rollins blake, who spores body cameras but vetoed a city council bill on several concerns, including privacy and with us is former police officer and prosecutor eugene o donnell, professor at john jay college of criminal justice. mare blake, i will start with you. here s what i m interested in. you support cod body cameras and vetoed bill for technical reasons this week. i m curious, we talk in the big picture about body camera, how does this work, in terms of how often do the cameras have to be on? are they on 24/7? does the officer control who turns them on or off? does the public have access to, you know, can we get the recordings from officer charge. ? how will it work, practically speaking? and those are the reasons, those questions that you asked should have been asked by the council before they passed that bill. they have a bill that required the officers to wear the body cams, but they didn t even require that they turn them on. we have to be more thoughtful and thorough if we are going to get this right and we have to answer those questions. tough answer those questions because what happens if a camera is on and a woman calls for a domestic violence complaint? the officer responds, she is battered, she is bruised, what if that becomes public information? we have to deal with those privacy concerns. how would you, as the mare, see it work, practically speaking? well, what i want to do is what we are doing, we have a work group with the aclu, we have lawyers, we have community members, we have law enforcement people that are all looking at these issues and working together to come out with something that works for baltimore. this isn t a cookie cutter approach. this san approach that i believe needs to be led and included the community needs to be included to make sure we get it right, that s what i m doing and looking forward to getting that report next month so we can do the implementation and make sure it works. so, eugene, obviously, law enforcement background, this is now happening in new york city happening elsewhere, what is the reaction of the average cop being told you are wearing a camera now, what do you think about that? i say we have to have an honest conversation about policing, they use force and it s never pretty and they are not automatically protected and they could become averse to involvement. we have a lot of police departments in the country that are basically employment agencies, the cops drive around, they get there late, they don t engage, struggle on 8th street, slow on 10th street. i have serious doubts whether this will be beneficial, keep our equilibrium, issues about brutality, acknowledge cities in the country, minority communities, the communities asking for police to engage not disengage, very concerned about this looks like mayor walsh in boston also has concerns whether this is going to make cops take steps back. you re saying the cop may be pauses, maybe thinks twice, maybe says, it s not necessarily we talk about these dramatic and horrible situations that make the news, but it s more every day stuff that people might might be able to quibble with and say that s little over the line or a little tough, whatever, it is really every day policing? i have to say bluntly, i see some real class issues here in terms of the expectation, the cops are unwise enough to get theseselves into these situations, they don t have, again, automatic protection, every time they engage somebody, they could be indicted that makes their job unique and the idea that we are going to look at a video, ex post facto, when they are in these sometimes life and death situations and say for eight seconds, it was okay, the ninth second was not okay, i think we have to take a step become on that and have a police industrial complex, tasers, tasers selling cameras and they are pushing this stuff. tasers may make the police more violent. no the sure about that. so we have to have some real, honest conversations, probably not a great time to have a full-scale conversation about this. well, mayor, i m curious, just listening to what eugene just said, curious what your response is. i think eugene makes a good point, i think in far too many places around the country, there s a knee jerk reaction, get cameras on police as soon as possible without asking the tough questions and without understanding that this is not a body cameras respect going to solve all of our problems and the eric garner case, there was tape and the community is still concern and the family is still upset and we have protests all throughout the country, not because the camera there wasn t footage of it, but because of the outcome, it s clear that we need a holistic approach, including work that like we are doing in baltimore. i asked the department of justice to come in to help us with our community policing efforts, we have to do better with training. it s clear that cameras are one thing, but it has to include the types of training and the types of engagement that rebuilds the trust that the community and the police need to have with each other. you know, it s important, the people are saying all around the country, when you see these protesters saying something very loud and clear, is do you hear me? do you see me? do i matter? and with proper community policing, that s when we get that right, that we can show the community, yes, they do matter and yes, you know this is a partnership, a true partnership. all right, baltimore mayor stephanie rawlings-blake, former prosecutor, eugene o donnell, thanks for joining us this morning. thanks a lot. senator bernie sanders, our interview with him. and up next, the president s weekend doesn t go exactly as planned. interesting detail there is on the other side of the break. and the legion of super fans. wow! 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progresso! it s ok that your soup tastes like my homemade. it s our slow simmered vegetables and tender white meat chicken. apology accepted. i m watching you soup people. make it progresso or make it yourself we ll have given 50 million dollars over seven years. love. it s what makes a subaru, a subaru. that is mary landrieu, senator mary landrieu from louisiana, addressing her supporters last night in louisiana. we can show you what happened. this is it. this is the final outstanding senate race of 2014. this was the runoff in louisiana, mary landrieu, a three-term democratic incumbent, she was defeated last night by congressman bill cassidy, a republican. bill cassidy will now become the 54th republican in the new senate in january. remember, just two years ago, republicans were left with 45 that means they have gained a total of nine seats in the senate in the 2014 midterms.what s so interesting about these numbers here, in the original election, in the jungle primary a month ago, mary landrieu came in with 42%, in the mons since then, stayed right there climbed a point or two, what happened was there was another republican candidate in that jungle primary and basically, all those votes went to bill cassidy and that s the story of it. mary landrieu loses by 12 points. again, we can see inside the numbers here exactly how this happened. there was no exit poll last night, we can t break this down too exactly. i think we have a pretty good scene what is going on here, look back to 2008, the last time mary landrieu was re-elected, 52% of the vote, got re-elected in 2008. if you look at the white vote in louisiana, these are voters will once, a generation ago two generations ago, all democratic, steadily moving to the republican party in 2008, mary landrieu was still able to get 33% of them. in the jingle primary a month ago when she just got 42%, look at that, she only got 18% of the white vote. looks like she is stuck around that number. again, we don t have actual exit polls from last night, my guess would be she is at or below 20%. when you are a democrat, when you are in the south, when you are at or below 20% of the white vote, you are not going to be winning anymore. that is why we are saying this is a story about mary landrieu, about louisiana, this is a much bigger story about the south and about the evolution of american politics, really over the last 50 years. and what i mean by that is let s look back 50 years ago, 1964, this is the south in 1964. these are the states of the old confedera confederacy, senate representation from those state, every states blue, two democratic senators, they all had two democratic senators, texas had one republican, john tower, the other democrat, a total in the south 50 years ago of 21 democratic senators and just one republican. that s how dominant the democratic party was in the south, the democratic party in the south was defined by conservative whites back then, many african-americans couldn t even vote in the south in 1964. you had the civil rights revolution, the voting rights act, demographics changed in the south. look at this now. 50 years later, after last night, accounting for louisiana now electing another republican senator this is what the south now looks like. you have two democratic senators from virginia. and virginia is a state that demographically is becoming more and more northern, a lot of people from the north moving in. that s one of the reasons it s become so blue and florida, you have a democratic senator, again, florida, another state where the demographics have been changed by northerners moving down, beyond that you don t have a single democratic senator left in the entire south. now louisiana is all republican after last night for the first time since reconstruction, a total of 19 republicans in the south, just three democrats, mary landrieu was the last deep south democrat left in the senate. so it s basically a complete flip from where this country was 50 years ago. that s the bigger story about what happened last night. one other thing we want to note in louisiana, i would be remiss if i did not mention there was a runoff for a congressional seat, you see here edwin edwards, the democrat, losing, not surprising he lost by this much, very republican district but edwin edwards, if you know this name, a throwback politician, think of the days like huey long, the rogue politician, he was the governor of this state, of the state of louisiana four different times, did he time in federal prison. he ran, in fact in 1991, he ran for governor, famous race, his opponent was david duke, the former klan leader, the bumper sticker for edwin edwards says vote fort crook, it s important and he won that race easily. get out of jail a few years ago, 87 years old, figured what do i do with my life, hey, i m in politics run for office. he ran in this election, nobody expected him to win but looks like this might be the end of the line for the political career of edwin edwards. funny story, he was asked last night what are your plans now after you have lost? i m going who emto get some sleep? what are you going to do after that? well, i will wake up and i will have breakfast. so, edwin edwards, very colorful career, looks like it might have come to an end last night, that is the story from louisiana. and up next, that interview we have been talking about all morning with bernie sanders, talk to him about maybe running for president. that s next. right now, you can get a single line with 3 gigs for $65 a month. 3 gigs . is that a lot? that s about.100 app downloads, 45 hours of streaming music, and 6 hours of video playing. 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the answer is yes. i think if the president remains strong and if we can rally the american people to demand the congress start working on the disappearing middle class and the growing gap between the rich and the poor, i think we can implement some important policies. right now the fastest way to create the millions of jobs we desperately need is by rebuilding our crumbling infrastructure, our roads, bridges, water systems, rail, et cetera. if we invested $1 trillion over a period of years, we can create 13 million jobs. you know why i m sorry, senator, do you think that level of investment, given everything we have seen from the republican republican house over the last four years, do you think that level of investment or anything approaching it is realistic to come out of the republican congress? well, you re right. i don t think we will get as much as i want or as much as we need. on the other hand, you have conservatives like jim iminoff of the public works committee who does believe in infrastructure as well as other republican senators and members of the house. so i do hope with the president s support that we can begin substantially investing in infrastructure and creating jobs. other area, i think the minimum wage at $7.25 an hour is a starvation wage. i think it has to be raised over a period of time to $15 an hour. but you have people like mitt romney and other republicans talking about raising the minimum wage. you have four conservative states in the last election voting to raise the minimum wage. do i think the republicans are smart enough to know this is an issue they can move on? i do, and i hope we can make progress there as well. as i said, it s something people can look at and say, bernie sanders is exploring a bid for president, a platform to run for president, one of the things people look at is hillary clinton is the big front-runner, everybody acknowledges that on the democratic side right now. when you look at the principle that is you laid out here, the 12 steps you laid out here, realistically, do you believe hillary clinton is in line with you on them or are there differences you see with her potentially? my suggestion is to ask hillary clinton about her views on this. i can t speak for hillary clinton. what i do know is virtually every one of the issues, infrastructure, raising the minimum wage, paid equity, transforming the energy system, demanding and passing legislation, to ask the wealthiest people in the largest corporations of this country to start paying their fair share of taxes. you know what? these are very popular issues that go across the political spectrum. the american people know there s something wrong when the middle class is disappearing and 95% of all new income today goes to the top 1%. so that is an important set of principles that any serious candidate should run on. yeah, and i guess what i wonder about is when i listen to democrats, and this includes hillary clinton, she hasn t said too much specifically, that s sort of by design the last few months, but when i listen to her speak in broad terms of principle, i hear what you just said. pay equity, closing the gap between rich and poor in this country, eliminating economic inequality. i hear that from her and every big name democrat out there. it seems on the core principles, i don t hear much difference between you and most other democrats in washington. so where are the differences that would encourage you to run for president? really? i have spent my entire political career taking on every special interest. that s one thing for somebody to talk about, well, we have to expand the middle class, we have to create jobs, everybody says that. including republicans. i think what you have to look at with the specifics of the program that people are outlining, i will be outlining a very specific program within the next few months. senator, that s what i m asking you there, in terms of when you get beyond the broad strokes rhetoric here, i agree with you, you hear that from everybody, so when you look at the democratic party and the leaders of the democratic party, where are they falling short specifically? well, we need, for example, we are losing $100 billion every single year because corporations are stashing their money, their profits in the caymen islands and bermuda. i m going to bring forward and have brought forward legislation to end that absurd practice. i happen to believe that the united states should not be the only major country on earth that does not guarantee health care to all people to a national health care program. i support a single pay and national health care program. i happen to believe that our current trade policies, nafta, permanent normal trade relations with china are a disaster which have lost us millions of jobs and going abroad to countries. i want to change fundamentally trade policies so companies reinvest in america, not china. are those the issues you hear from a lot of folks? if you do go ahead and run in the democratic primaries, you have to change your party registration to become a democrat. that s something you have not been throughout your political career are. you comfortable potentially making that step? well, that s an issue i m talking, a, i don t know if i m going to run or not. look, steve, if you run a campaign based on the principles i believe in, which is ultimately we don t make change in this country unless we take on the billionaire class, which now has so much economic and political power. in order to do that, you need to run an unprecedented grassroots campaign. are there millions of people who are prepared to stand up and work really, really hard? getting involved in that kind of campaign. you know what? you don t know that, i don t know that. i have to determine that before i make a decision. what you re asking me is i m the longest serving end pindependen the united states congress. if i do pursue the campaign, can i do it in the structural of the democratic party or outside the party? that s a difficult question. i m also trying to get some understanding of where people are coming on that. there are positives and negatives of either approach. and where at this point in terms of your decision, do you have a sense of when you ll have a decision made? i ll make it at the appropriate time. i think people in this country are not necessarily sympathetic to never-ending campaigns. so i think we have some time to do it. on the other hand, obviously, there s a point if you re going to go forward where you have to make a decision. senator bernie sanders, independent, at least for now from vermont. appreciate you taking the time this morning. appreciate that. thank you, steve. all right. bernie sanders, we ll keep an eye out on what he does. we have a few extra seconds at the end of the show, so i want to give a shout-out to a team you have never heard of. the new jersey institute of technology. the hilanders, the only independent team in all of college that went to the university of michigan yesterday. it was their first time ever playing a ranked team. just recently they had a 5 51-losing streak and yesterday they won. congratulations to the hilanders. thank you for joining us this weekend. we ll be back next sunday at 8:00 a.m. coming up next is melissa harris-perry. we ll see you next week on up. mmm mmm mmm mm mmm mm mmmmmm here we go, here we go, here we go. fifty omaha set hut losing feeling in my toes nothing beats that new car smell chicken parm you taste so good nationwide is on your side mmm mmm mmm mm mmm mm mmmmmm goodnight. goodnight. for those kept awake by pain. the night is anything but good. introducing new aleve pm. the first to combine a safe sleep aid. plus the 12 hour strength of aleve. for pain relief that can last until the am. now you can have a good night and a. good morning! new aleve pm. for a better am. for most people, earning cash back ends here, at the purchase. but there s a new card in town. introducing the citi® double cash card. it lets you earn cash back when you buy and again as you pay. that s cash back twice. it s cash back with a side of cash back. the citi double cash card. the only card that lets you earn cash back twice on every purchase with 1% when you buy and 1% as you pay . with two ways to earn, it makes a lot of other cards seem one-sided. americans drink 48 billion that s enough plastic bottles to stretch around the earth 230 times. each brita filter can replace 300 of those. clean. clear. brita water. nothing is better. ring ring! .progresso! you soup people have my kids loving vegetables. well vegetables. shh! taste better in our savory broth. vegetables!? 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on the way with more rain in the extreme weather center. and the rain continues this saturday here in washington. hope it s a little drier where you are at home. i m leland vittert. elizabeth: great to be with you, i m elizabeth prann. voters in france will have a runoff that will have a global impact. one campaign trying to deal with fallout after claims it was the victim of a massive and coordinated hacking attack designed to destabilize the election. the french are about in a 48 hour blackout period before the vote takes place. greg palkot is in paris, france with the latest. hi, greg. hi, elizabeth. taking a page out of the u.s. election playbook, the leader here in this presidential elections here in france has been hit by a massive cyber attack. thousands of e-mails and documents seized have the computers of campaign safer of emmanuel macron, they were posted online. while moist of the material is kind of mundane, it is combined according to authorities today, with fake news items meant to try to sway the election. no one is assuming responsibility for this, but pro russian and right wing websites have been allegedly in the mix and they re looking at those possibilities. so far no sign that all of this is impacting the leader macron. he is a centrist, an independent, reformer, pro european union and he has at least a 20% lead over far right p populous candidate marine le pen. there s a ban here on all activities and the authorities are trying to keep a lid on the development. le pen campaign manager did tweet a provocative question, suggesting that perhaps these leaks might reveal information that journalists have not revealed about their candidate. it is her favorable comment about russia and about vladimir putin that have some thinking that russian hacking connection reminiscent of the alleged russian role in those campaign documents and e-mail leaks from hillary clinton last year. now, woo he spent some time speaking with folks here on the street in paris. they don t seem too concerned about the development. paris is generally liberal. and we ve heard from macron, but in the french heartland there s a lot of support for marine le pen. she s anti-immigrant, anti-european union and is playing well in a lot of quarters. unemployment is high and the economy is sagging. we did, hear, elizabeth, from what they call the neither/nor candidates, people that are not happy with either sigh side. what we re looking at is a historic election, for the first time in modern history there are no major party candidates involved. the candidates of the two main parties here in france were eliminated in the first round of voting and this is the runoff and it s deciding the future of france and as you noted could have a big impact and not just here, but across europe and globally. elizabeth: that s right, historic indeed. greg palkot live. more later in the show. tomorrow we ll be live from 3:00 to 4:00 p.m. with special coverage of the french election, so tune in here as polls close for the results and what it means for here in the u.s. and, of course, president trump. leland: huge impacts on the markets. coming up, president donald trump worked out of washington this weekend from his new jersey golf club. what he calls a big win in his promised repeal and replace obamacare and tweeted last night touting job numbers to put the unemployment rate at levels not seen since 2007. brian is in bedminister with the president behind him at the golf club, good to see you, brian. good to see you, too, leland. for the president it s the first time he visited the club here. some are calling it the summer white house or camp david north, but this really marks the end of what has been a good week for the president and his administration from that i remember perspective. a great jobs report in april, the lowest unemployment in a decade and the repeal and replace of obamacare. the american health care act is the president s first major legislative victory, now the legislation is far from becoming law, it will go to the senate and likely back to the house, but in his weekly address. the president was optimistic touting his latest tax reform and touting that the house health care bill will boost the economy. thursday the house voted to repeal one of the worst job killing laws of all, the house bill is a plan that will save americans from this disaster and replace it with more choices and more freedom for american families. and now, i m calling on the senate to take action. now, getting the senate to take action and pass that bill or a version of it is going to be extremely difficult. it s going to be hard because many republicans in the senate are actually against the current bill as-is. for one, pre-existing conditions. the current bill allows states the option of allowing insurance companies to charge more for pre-existing conditions and others like ohio senators rob portman points to the medicaid cuts, saying millions of lower income americans stand to lose their insurance, thanks to this bill because it would cut obamacare s medicaid expansion. now, in a tweet though, the president is saying making it very clear that he believes that the media and critics are being too harsh because frankly, obamacare as-is is a bad system. in a tweet, he said, quote, why is it that the fake news rarely reports o-care is on its last legs and insurance companies are fleeing for their lives? it s dead. earlier today, former trump advisor corey lewandowski was on fox and friends and spoke how the president plants plans on continuing his hands-on approach and continuing things like tax reform, infrastructure, and this health care bill. he s going to get all three done and what that means is he s going to be working the phones, meeting with individuals, i m sure, in the u.s. senate to get a piece of legislation done. now, as for when the president expects this bill to be done, there is no timetable, the white house says, but they do expect some changes to the bill, although they say the main pillars they expect to stay there, leland. leland: the debate will continue as will the president s work. bryan live in new jersey, thanks, bryan. elizabeth: now those who voted must make the sell to their constituen constituents. and francis rooney, who voted for the american health care act. thank you for joining us today. thank you for having me on. elizabeth: two of your peers from the other side of florida on the east coast, made it fairly public that it was a game time decision. was this a game time decision for you? no, it wasn t. i saw this thing early on as the best possible opportunity to replace a top-down government mandate system for something that allowed choice and tried to make the free markets work. elizabeth: now, we want to talk about the sunshine state in particular. there s hundreds of thousands of folks who have preexisting conditions, there s an elderly population to a lot of the voters in florida. how are you going to sell this going forward? there are a lot of people worried that they may lose coverage, not only with pre-existing conditions, but also with medicaid. well, i ve been selling it. the fact of matter is ahca does not deny coverage for pre-existing conditions. the recent amendment does allow an opt out waiver for states, but if they do they have t.o. their own high risk fun to covered subsidized people who have expensive medical conditions or stay in the federal one, the $130 billion dollar one. i don t understand why the media keeps saying this kind of stuff. elizabeth: well, there was a voter, and i believe she was in fort meyers depending where she lives may or may not be in your district and she had said, quote, i m scared to death about what s happening. they re going to price me out of the market and may get to the point where i have to decide about keeping my house or having my health insurance. it s not necessarily that they re not going to be covered, but people with preexisting conditions who aren t going to afford coverage. if you get the high risk pools, earmarked, i believe $130 billion earmarked for folks in these high risk pools. critics say that s just simply not enough. well, i don t know where ne get that. i think it s a lot of money to cover these high risk pools and i think the fact that the high risk people will be taken out of the general underwriting base should allow premiums to go down. elizabeth: you re giving voters assurances if they re in the high risk pools they will be able to obtain coverage and i sort of want to get to my next question, which is medicaid. if the people on medicaid, sometimes they get off or on medicaid. if they disenroll or unenroll from medicaid and want coverage back on they re going to have to pay a penalty under the new law. are they going to be able to afford that? you know, florida is a state that has a very efficient well-run state government and eif isht well-run medicaid program, did not take the obama expansion money and is going to benefit from this stability fund that s going to help the states equallize during the four or five-year phasedown of expansion in other states. those other state governors are going to have to figure out how to operate as efficiently has a state like florida as medicaid easy money is retired the next few years. elizabeth: okay. my last question, a little bit looking forward, and i want to get to it before i let you go. one fellow lawmaker in florida could be at risk in 2018, carlos ka b cabelo. could you worry you re going to lose the republican majority. but we haven t seen that cbo score yet and we don t know how it s going to pan out. are you at all concerned? we haven t seen the cbo score and like to make a point, the original score was wholly defective. based on a static model that whole 24 million loss coverage is a myth and hopefully they re going to get a realistic score this time. no, i ve been selling this thing and explaining to people, giving out handouts of the key bullet points and i think it s the best option we ll see. elizabeth: thank you for joining us and we appreciate your time and see how the future pans out. leland has the other side. leland: indeed, every democrat in the house voted against ahca as did 20 republicans. among them congressman andy biggs of arizona and joins us from the great city of tucson with the camel back in the background. good to see you, sir. thank you for having me. leland: the question for you, it s pretty simple. where does the gentleman from florida and for that matter, the president that says this is going to save us from obamacare, have it wrong? simply put, let s just decide, did we repeal obamacare? and the answer of course is no. because if you did, what are the states going to be asking to be let out of? they re going to have to petition of federal government and say, please let us out, let us out of what? out of obamacare because we didn t repeal obamacare and that s the bottom line. what was actually done the president, the republican leadership and all the way down to the congressman from florida will tell you, hey, look, this was the best we could do, is that true? oh, that s a big difference between saying look, we have problems. cause if that s the best we could do, and they the people are acknowledging, hey, the senate is it going to change this things, we don t know how bad it s going to change it. why didn t we repeal it with the same kind of bills that we did in the congress for years before i ever even got there? if we would have why don t you think that republicans did that? why not just repeal and then come back later and replace? is it the political cost or something else going on? well, i can t attribute any motives, but all i know is i m bewildered by that. i mean, i signed on to a bill co-sponsor a bill to actually repeal this and i was told to be disingenuous to pass a full repeal out of the house even though we ve done it for five times before and then send it to the senate if the senate know might not pass it. isn t that what we just did? they just passed a bill and claiming it s repeal and sending it to the senate and knowing it will be change. how is that less ingenuous, than saying let s do our job and keep our promise and send it to the senate. it doesn t make sentence to me. leland: well, i appreciate your candor when it comes that. let me turn this just a little bit in terms of what was going on up on capitol hill. how much pressure were you under from the white house, from paul ryan, from others to vote yes? well, i got squeezed pretty hard, as you might guess. i think i lost five or ten pounds as i was getting squeezed. [laughter]. but the reality is i did talk to the white house, the president and vice-president and i tell you, they were very gracious. leland: no threats of being primary or don t vote for this there will ee ewillen there will be consequences. i heard more from colleagues. but i had colleagues telling me they respected my vote and a lot asked me why and i ve got an hour and a half worth of reasons why not to vote for this, but as i would go through they would, generally, they would say, hey, i know you ve thought about it, you ve done your homework, this is a principle vote and we respect you for that. i got it from both sides. leland: it s clear in our conversation this is not without a lot of contemplation on your part. i want your thought on something the president said this week and follow it up with a tweet. first the sound bite. i shouldn t say this, too, our great gentleman and my friend in australia, because you have better health care than we did. we re going to have great elk had soon. leland: the president followed it up with this tweet, doubling down. of course the australians have better health care than we do, everybody does. obamacare is dead, but our health care will soon be grit. arizona s got some of the best medical care in the world, and i would suspect you d agree with me when you think there s a lot of australians who if they have the money and are really sick come to america for health care. there s not a lot of americans who head down to australia for health care. where do you think the president has gone wrong on this? well, i don t think he was really providing a commentary necessarily on american health care so much he was making a commentary on obamacare. that s the way i took it. and saying obamacare is in a death spiral, which it is. and that s the reason would be bewildered. we ve basically enshrined the features of obamacare. we ve taken a step. and it s difficult to walk back from and we haven t really we didn t keep our promises and the we have no idea if we re really going to be reducing the premiums by any appreciatable amount. leland: i want to button this up. i respect your candor, i really do, to come on television and say we didn t keep our promises. don t you worry that this clip is going to be in a campaign ad come 2018? well, no, i m not. i didn t run this time to beat to run for reelection in 2018. i came this time to represent my constituents and my constituents largely understand what we re saying. when we start peeling this this back, they say, andy, you re right. we were going to repeal it. we re repositioning it, that s what happened. leland: mr. biggs came to washington and we appreciate your candor back there in arizona. come visit us soon. thanks. leland: all the buzz. come to fox news for a media buzz. howard kirtz talks about former trump cane manager corey lewandowski and health care will be a big topic in this conversation. and white house reince priebus bus talking about what s next for president trump as the health care bill heads to the senate. no doubt it s a tough ride to the senate. the chief of staff on what the president can do to get it through. check your local listings for time and channel, fox news sunday tomorrow. elizabeth: this is a fox news alert. the pentagon as identified the navy seal killed friday tighting the terror group al-shabaab in somalia. kyle milligan. he was killed during an operation against al-shabaab 40 miles west of mogadishu. a rear admiral says that he embodied the quote, warrior spirit and toughness induced in our best navy seals. he s irreplaceable as a father, a husband, a son, a friend and a teammate. very sad news to report today. millions of music fans are sending prayers and well wishes to country music legend loretta lynn after learning she suffered a stroke on thursday. the latest on her condition coming up. plus, as the senate gets ready for more hearings on russian election meddling. russian election meddling next week, knew details on trump campaign warnings to general michael flynn about his russian contacts. and downstream communities preparing for the very worst as the mighty mississippi river sets to crest this weekend in some major midwestern cities along its banks. adam is monitoring it all from the fox extreme weather center. yes, i am. at least we re clearing off and but that water is rising. i ll have the details coming up in my full forecast after the break. of the billboard music awards just by using your voice. the billboard music awards. sunday, may 21st eight seven central only on abc. music legend loretta lynn is recouperating from a stroke. the singer and songwriter is responsive and expect today make a full recovery. lynn s scheduled concerts have been postponed and her singer, crystal gayle put out a statement saying, she s strong woman and we appreciate your love, and support and we play for a speedy recovery. elizabeth: this is a fox news weather alert. the mississippi and missouri rivers are set to crest today after heavy rains pounded the region causing deadly floods that claimed at least ten lives. the storms caused massive devastation and headaches across the midwest and interstates and homes. the same storm systems hit new york city causing some major chaos for computers. so, there was water everywhere and in the homes and roofs are leaking. it was above the bottom edge of the door. cause now, my whole car has got about five inches of standing water in it, so, it must have been it was even higher, too, before. elizabeth: wow, for the latest, we bring in adam at the extreme weather center. what do you have for us? this was a big storm. the good news for folks in the midwest, that has moved off and we re seeing the rivers continuing to rise. it takes a couple of days for that rain to ultimately work its way down. wabash down to the mississippi and st. louis. all of those in green are flood watches, because, yeah, that water pours into the rivers. as i said it s drying off so looking at the exact raegs, we re not talking about additional rainfall, it did shift off to the northeast to the mid atlantic. the heavy rain that new york city saw yesterday, that wrapped up and it s replaced with a steady rain lingering over the course of the weekend. the mid atlantic stretching into new england, expect some showers over the course of today, running you eventually all the way through your weekend. the hour by hour forecast will time this out. even though we may not get consistent rain across the northeast and mid atlantic, there are going to be rounds of showers moving through the entire weekend. there is your time stamp through the corner. and taking you through sunday and monday morning and we continue to see at least a couple of showers lingering all the way up into the northeast. how much rain are we talking about? now, yes, there were folks yesterday that saw very big numbers. i m expecting a whole lot more, but pretty widespread from 1/10 of an inch up to one to two inches additional rainfall to what we saw yesterday. down into kentucky i wanted to take note of it. any racing fans out there. a slight chance of seeing a couple of showers, the temperatures on the cool side looking at 59 degrees, but again, folks along the east coast, it s going to be a good idea to keep that umbrella handy. today into sunday and probably even early monday morning before we start to clear off a little bit, guys. elizabeth: all right, adam klotz, thanks, we appreciate it. we ll talk with missouri governor greitens, what he s doing to prepare his residents for what is absolutely going to be a massive cleanup. leland: coming up, president trump s russia problems reignite as the senate committee asks his aides to turn over records. what we could learn this week. and post time six hours away as horses get a once in a lifetime opportunity to run the 143rd kentucky derby. our own janice dean is at churchill downs. it s muddy there. a little more on the hats and the mint juleps, coming up. eliquis reduced the risk of stroke better than warfarin, plus had less major bleeding than warfarin. eliquis had both. don t stop taking eliquis unless your doctor tells you to, as stopping increases your risk of having a stroke. eliquis can cause serious and in rare cases fatal bleeding. don t take eliquis if you have an artificial heart valve or abnormal bleeding. while taking eliquis, you may bruise more easily. and it may take longer than usual for any bleeding to stop. seek immediate medical care for sudden signs of bleeding, like unusual bruising. eliquis may increase your bleeding risk if you take certain medicines. tell your doctor about all planned medical or dental procedures. i m still going for my best. and for eliquis. ask your doctor about eliquis. the senate intelligence committee wants a number of high profile trump campaign aides to hand over e-mails and other records of their dealings with russian officials. garrett is joining us now with what we can expect to many could out of this coming week. the head of the senate intelligence committee are now saying that one of those trump aides, carter page has become less cooperative. the committee asked that he provide e-mails, or any, phone calls, between him and russians. and while his legal team is working on gathering that information, it s likely the government already has it all saying in part, any records i may have saved as a private citizen with a limited technology capability will be minuscule in comparison to the full data base of information which has already been collected under the direction of the obama administration. page also said he looks forward to testifying in an open hearing before the committee to put an end to the false allegations of collusion between him and russian officials. separately, there are also new reports that back in november, members of the trump transition team warned former national security advisor michael flynn that any conversations he had with russia s ambassador would likely be picked up by u.s. intelligence agencies. the washington post and associated press citing current and former government officials report those warnings came a whole month before flynn was reportedly discussions sanctions against russia with the ambassador. those discussions which he then misled the vice-president and other white house officials about eventually led to his stepping down. these new warnings we re learning about are in addition to those reportedly shared by former deputy attorney general sally yates and we ll likely hear what the warnings were and what the trump administration knew about flynn s connection with russia before she testifies before the judiciary committee. leland: a lot could come out of that. mr. tenney, thank you. and james carafano with the heritage foundation talks about the new normal in hacking as france becomes the latest target. liz. elizabeth: push back against pa ban flying over designated safe zones. it was hammered out by russia, turkey and iran. to explain the impact against isis and the region, the military analyst jack keane. thank you for joining us. good to see you, liz. elizabeth: the more that we learn about this that went down, representatives from the united states were not involved and learned that the opposition forces were out of that, especially once they learned that really the people calling the shots were russia and iran. so, how did this go forward? well, it will go forward similar to other cease fires. you re right, the united states is not involved, the opposition forces are not involved. we made the right decision in pushing back and not participating in this. the guarantee of the safety of the people in the deescalation zones is iranian. that s totally unacceptable to us. the iranians are the main ground source in syria, not the syria army. so they re the main killing force and in the cease fires and now calling it a deescalation zone, russians reconsolidate and after activity calming down they take advantage of the situations on the ground and start the bombing again and that will be what will play out here. elizabeth: i m curious about the he is escalation involvement and starting seven years ago and how much have they gained from their involvement in this conflict? it s pretty significant. in the actual conflict itself they have replaced the assad regime air power. they are the main air power used every single day. they have been pounding civilian communities since our cruise missile strike in syria every single day and used depenetrative bombs on underground hospitals. they re committing war crimes, the russian air power. what it s done, the countries in the region saw that russia came in and backed up an ally and we failed to back up our allies in the roux eggs particularly after the chemical line was crossed so-called red line. they ve done arms deal as a result of that with every sunni arab ally and a want to build nuclear power plants. that s taken place because of the military intervention. the reason the sunnis are doing this is they want to hedge against the russians and iranians. and that s why president trump let them know we got their pack back and return to the relationship with the leaders of the middle east. elizabeth: sort of set up my next question, we re looking at president trump making a trip over there. what doe accomplish? it seems that russia is getting everything they want especially when it comes to this conflict in syria. they re enthused with this president and he s met with them and spoken to some of the leaders and they re looking forward to the renewal of the relationship. and they ll take a look at isis and see if they can provide help. isis is larger than the caliphate in iraq and it s expanded to 30 countries. some he they have relationships with and some are their countries. eye had iran is a major threat in the middle east. and after the deal that president obama made and they know that the money will be used for that and they ll talk about that. the other interesting thing, he s going to saudi arabia where the holy shrines are that represent islam and that s going to send a message, in this country and in other parts of the world, people have got the perception that he s anti-muslim because of this travel ban. and i don t believe he is. and so many of the administration is not either. and i think that s going to make another statement to the muslim world that the first trip he s making to the middle east is to saudi arabia and also obviously, to israel. elizabeth: fascinating. i only had six more questions, but i m getting the cue in my air. too long. elizabeth: no, i love it. general, that means we have to have you back. good talking to you, liz. elizabeth: we appreciate it very much. leland. leland: when the general does come back, commenting often on tensions between the u.s. and north korea. an election in south korea could shake things up more. we ll tell you why coming up. plus, we ll take a closer look at the french presidential elections and why the far right candidate says don t believe the polls that show her so far behind. stop trying to project me as if i ve been defeated. maybe there s going to be a surprise that will belie opinion polls and this giant steamroller. in any event, we ve changed everything already. take on the mainstream. introducing nissan s new midnight edition. 12 hours from now and while there s a blackout period, pro russian and website are hawking stolen e-mails from the candidates. it s a twist that have an impact on financial markets and our relationship with our oldest ally. james joins us with insights. good to see you, my friend. thank you for having me. leland: you look at this right now, you ve got marine le pen who is way down in the polls, the right wing candidate. you ve got emanumanuel macron, untested politician, young guy under 40, leading by 20 points. ordinarily it wouldn t be a discussion, but you look at brexit, the pollsters got it wrong. the u.s. election, the polls got it wrong. and marine le pen saying it could be in threes. it s not a similar situation. brexit was close in the polls leading up to it. trump was never more than three or four points behind. and marine le pen is 20 points behind, it s highly, highly unlike unlikely. leland: strange things happen. what does it tell us, if nothing else, that we re having this conversation? you re right. if you look the a the trend lines across france and the p poplus parties are more popular. per father only got 18%. his daughter, 15 years later, is probably going to get somewhere on the order of 35 to 40%. so, while she s not going to win tomorrow, if the conditions that give rise to this continue, then, five years from now, ten years from now, she might have a much better shot. leland: i m not going to characterize marine le pen s position on things, i ll leave that to you, suffice to say to a huge part of the population, they are alarming. she s often described as far right which is not accurate. if you look at her economic policies, she is what we in america would consider far left. she wants to keep a 35-hour work week, put up trade barriers, she wants to lower the retirement age drastically. she s in favor of much more state intervention in the economy, and much bigger government spending. so she has a, what we would consider a far left economic plan, which is actually the reason why a lot of people who used to vote for the communist party in france vote now for the national front. it s more on the questions of, you know, ethnic identity and citizenship that we consider her far right and the fact that there are so many neo fascists, frankly and holocaust revisionists and her father among them? yes, and she did kick out her father from the party a couple of years ago. but i think that was largely a cosmetic change. if you look at the attitudes expressed by members of this party, including senior members. the prime minister candidate was forced to retain a couple of weeks ago because he doubted the holocaust and says that the germans never used poison gas in the gas chambers and these are the people she s is your round surrounded herself with. leland: and we ll see, and if it happens see the markets in a tizzy monday morning. thank you. elizabeth: mint juleps, hats and horses, janice dean is in churchill downs where they re gathered for the race. how is it going, janice, you look beautiful, by the way. liz and leland, i have to tell you the most exciting news so far, the sun has come out. it s been raining here 48 hours. that s the great news. we ll talk about derby and the celebrities i was partying with last night when america s news headquarters from d.c. continues after the break. take a look at churchill downs. boost. it s about moving forward, not back. it s looking up, not down. it s being in motion. in body, in spirit, in the now. boost® high protein it s intelligent nutrition with 15 grams of protein and 26 vitamins and minerals. for when you need a little extra. boost® the number one high protein complete nutritional drink. be up for it i6789. elizabeth: well, today is the 143rd kentucky derby and it looks like the sun is finally coming out for the big race. our own janice dean took a trip to churchill downs to see how things are shaping up. we were talking how our show is so much better because we were able to steal you for the weekend. tell us about the oh down action down there. oh, moo my gosh, this is my first kentucky derby and we were talking about one of the coldest days in kentucky derby. oaks, the racing of the lilies and the fillies on the track, the coldest day in 55 years in louisville and today the sun has come out and people are starting to feel much better than they have over the last 24 hours, i want to thank the person, a company who produced the beautiful hats for me, frank olive by gabriel we ve had beautiful hats. kentucky ser bye is about horses, the mint juleps and the hats. i went to the brown stable gala. i met some celebrities and it was pretty exciting. watch. . and hey, sammy haggar here, i love you guys. this is your first derby. yes. are you excited? yeah, look at me. most exciting two minutes of sports? what do you say to that? i would not question it. i know i m going to be on the edge of my seat as we all are. should be fun! what s up. how many derbies? this is the fourth. the weather, how are you dealing with the weather? hey, i look at it as an opportunity. let s see what horse is going to run. we d love to know what your pick is. i was going to ask you the same thing, because i have no idea. there s a horse from brooklyn and my husband is from brooklyn. and always recommended. brooklyn horse. i m going with that. i ve got my eye, pun intended on the one-eyed horse patch. i love his underdog story. how are you, fox and friends? the first derby? yeah. and i m in love with it, the pageantry, dressing up. do you love coming out here? my first time. you re from this area? yeah, i m from kentucky. how do you pronounce louisville. like louisville, like louisville. like luolville. how do you pronounce louisville. i said louisville. is sing happy birthday? give you a kiss on the cheek. i ll never wash this cheek again. never do. more derby fun later. that was amazing! we watch that over and over again. thank you so much. leland: much more, maybe not another kiss for janice in the next hour of america s news headquarters. where and why the international swimmers took a cold plunge and scary moments for one truck driver when the ground literally fell out from under him. and we ll tell you how he escaped coming up. rescue me . had to talk to my doctor. she said, how long you been holding this in? (laughs) that was my movantik moment. my doctor told me that movantik is specifically designed for oic and can help you go more often. don t take movantik if you have a bowel blockage or a history of them. movantik may cause serious side effects, including symptoms of opioid withdrawal, severe stomach pain and/or diarrhea, and tears in the stomach or intestine. tell your doctor about any side effects and about medicines you take. movantik may interact with them causing side effects. why hold it in? have your movantik moment. talk to your doctor about opioid-induced constipation. if you can t afford your medication, astrazeneca may be able to help. responsible for the brutal sucker punch murder of a father of five in las vegas. leland: voters hit the polls tomorrow in france to decide a presidential election that could change europe and global politics as we know it. but today one campaign is in crisis control after it says it suffered a massive and coordinated hacking attack. greg talcott is live in paris with what s happened. hi, greg. reporter: leland, it sounds like something right out of last year s u.s. elections, but the leader of this campaign, emmanuel macron, has been hit by what his supporters call a massive cyber attack, a data dump. thousands and thousands of e-mails and documents coming from the campaign have been posted online, most of the material according to reports is routine, but combined with what authorities say say is fake news, obviously, aimed at swaying this election. now, no one has assumed responsibility, but the macron camp have complained that there have been russian hacks against its system, and right-wing sites even sites in the united states have been spreading the word about this latest data dump. so far no sign that the candidacy of macron has been affected. he s a sent tryst, he s independent and pro-e.u., pro-nato, he s a reformer x he has something like a 20% or more lead on his far-right populist rival, the anti-immigrant, anti-e.u. candidate, marine le pen. now, there is a campaign ban in effect today that is a ban on all activities, so there hasn t been a lot of comment about this. authorities are trying to keep a lid on it, but the campaign manager for le pen has tweeted a question that perhaps this raises questions about her rival. now, it is le pen s comments about and support coming from vladimir putin and russia that has raised concerns perhaps about a russian role, again, reminiscent of the allegations of russian involvement in the campaign last year including leaks relating to the hillary clinton campaign. now, we spoke with folks here on the street in paris. they don t seem too concerned about this. here in liberal paris, macron gets a lot of support. but in the french heartland hard hit by an economy that has been stagnant for years with up employment 10% unemployment 10% and more, the pitch coming from le pen has played very well. we also did hear from candidates, from citizens here talking about a neither/nor route; that is, abstention. and that could play a big role in tomorrow s vote. finally, leland, this is so important, so historic, france is so key to a lot of things happening near europe and globally especially with the united states in terms of strategic questions that figures into the united states have weighed in. former president obama taped a message of support for macron. president trump in the past has spoken kindly of marine le pen, but in a press conference yesterday the white house says that it will work with whoever wins tomorrow. back to you. leland: yeah. and can t understate the importance of french alliance with the united states either. greg talcott in paris, good to see you, greg. we ll see you a lot tomorrow. let s bring in james carafano of the heritage foundation for some insight. big election, two candidates, one relatively pro-russian, one not. and somehow there s hacking in e-mails. dare we say here we go again? oh, absolutely. the russians were doing this before the american elections, they ll still continue to do it after the american elections. one thing we ve seen that s been incredibly consistent with putin is he has gone back into the old soviet tool kit, and he s taken out those tools, and that includes disinformation and active measures. this is kind of classic soviet-style behavior. leland: the russian name for it, in terms of creating this stuff, it does seem that the french action, if you will, in terms of this latest e-mail dump about macron is kind of ham-handed. this doesn t seem to be nearly as involved as what we saw in the united states. well, you have to remember why the russians do this, why you conduct disinformation and active measure campaigns. it s less about necessarily driving a specific outcome than it is in kind of undermining the legitimacy and creating a bit of chaos. because as long as you re weakening and stressing your opponent and distracting them and you re creating space to operate, that s more important than the specific outlook you get outcome you get. if you go to rush that and say russia and say what are you going to achieve, the answer is, we don t know. if it creates chaos, good. if it doesn t, we do something else. leland: what are you hearing inside russia, to that point? do they view whatever they did in the u.s. elections as a success? well, i do think they saw it as a success from the perspective of look what s going on in the united states. we have a hyper-partisan political environment, it s kept people distracted, it has some people claiming the president is illegitimate, having the administration constantly dealing with these things. for them, even if they don t get a pro-russian president, they ve still kind of tied us up a little, and so for very little investment, that s kind of a cheap win. leland: well, and to that point in terms of being tied up, you think about we now have multiple investigations up on capitol hill into russian meddling, big senate hearing coming up this week. yeah. leland: that going to change anything? no. and this also shows the limits of that. a, they didn t get a pro-russian president. look, i worked on the presidential transition team. there was never anything in the plan that said let s be weak on putin or kind of lame on nato. it just was never in the plan. so they were never going to get a pro-russian president, and they didn t get one, so that got them nothing. and in a sense, even if the united states wanted to do something nice with the russians now, it s going to be very, very difficult. everybody in congress hates them, the administration would be criticized. and, but i think all these, the political kind of trying to demonstrate clues, you don t know what you don t know, obviously, and i don t know everything, but so far nothing has demonstrated anything like collusion, so it hasn t even really slowed the administration down. and in the end, it s actually weakened putin because now they do this stuff so much that people are getting used to it. leland: well, has it weakened him it certainly hasn t weakened him internally. well, it has in the sense that putin is respected when he s strong, and he s pushing people around, and when he s not pushing people around like when somebody sends a 59-cruise missile message to your ally, that does make you look weaker. leland: okay. and so he s antagonized europe so much that he s actually created the pushback that he didn t want. and he is running out of spaces to meddle. so ironically, all this russian meddling is actually not really paying off for the russians. leland: interesting, interesting perspective, james. always good to hear from you. thanks so much. thank you for having me. leland: good to see you. liz? elizabeth: el with, the house well, the house republican bill to repeal and replace obamacare now heads to the senate. many of the same issues that stalled the bill in the lower chamber will be debated again and again in the upper chamber, but the process may take a little bit longer. allison barber has more. hi, allison. reporter: hi, elizabeth. you how remember that supporters of the bill in the house celebrated its passage in a very big way at the rose garden with the president. but that is just the first step in the senate the debate is only beginning. well, the senate will write its own bill. i mean, that s the way it works, right? they ll pass theirs, we ll pass ours, and then we ll go to conference. reporter: the house passed their bill thursday. some on the left like senator tim kaine say for starters they need to say the estimated cost. they rushed through a bill without knowing how many millions of people it would hurt, without knowing how much it would cost, without a protection for people with pre-existing conditions. reporter: and quite a few republicans are looking at it with caution. part of the problem i have is that the underlying premise of obamacare was that the federal government would, for the first time, buy insurance policy for people. that fundamental promise of obamacare is kept. some of the things we re going to have to work on, for example, are the refundable tax credit. we need to make sure that that s sufficient so that low income people can actually buy a policy. we will work together carefully to write our own bill. we will make sure we know what our bill costs. reporter: special budget rules allow the senate to pass health care with just 51 votes, but republicans probably need some help from democrats. republicans have the majority in the senate, but it s not as big as what they have in the house. elizabeth? elizabeth: all right. allison barber reporting live, thank you so much. for more, let s bring in sean noble and blake rutherford who served on hillary clinton s finance team in philadelphia. blake, i think i know what your response is going to be, so i m going to toss this first question to sean. sean, we saw a big celebration in the rose garden this week. jumping the gun a little bit on that? i don t know if it s jumping the gun as much as it s sending a message to the supporters of repealing obamacare that we ve takennen the first step and that this process is now underway. i think they needed to do it because there was some concern from the base that they weren t going to do it. they, you know, they had a false start where they didn t get the votes and they pulled the vote back a couple weeks ago, so i think they wanted to send a message that said, hey, we re serious about this, and we re taking steps to get obamacare repealed. elizabeth: blake, i want to bring you in, because i assume i know your response on this one, but i also want to ask you, you know, make no mistake about it, this is not what we re going to see in the senate. no, we re not going to see anything like this in the senate. i think we can expect the senate will take a paper shredder to the house bill. elizabeth: are they going to make sure they get all the republicans except two or get the democrats involved? mitch mcconnell has not expressed any interest in working with the democrats, so if reconciliation is the way they re going to go, i think they would be smart to revisit their strategy, however, because i think the house bill is so politically toxic already that the senate s distancing itself from it. they re going to have to revisit this entirely. we now have a house in play because, because they took that vote. so i think the senate will have to reconsider that s fundamentally not true. in a much different way. i think sean now will probably have to anytime that it was admit that it was a curious political strategy by the republicans. elizabeth: sean, i wanted to talk about that later, but you brought up 2018 so, sean, i want to let you respond. yeah. i think it s not necessarily curious strategy. the strategy is to use reconciliation to take the first step in repealing obamacare. this isn t going to happen in reconciliation. they re then going to go to regular process to do other reforms that are necessary to completely root this thing out. but this is far from being an election issue at this point. remember, the democrats passed a bill in 2009, in october or november of 2009, and celebrated it. then the senate passed a bill on christmas eve, a draft bill really. and then after they lost the scott brown seat or the ted kennedy seat to scott brown in january of 2010, they went to reconciliation. so we re using reconciliation to unwind what they put in place by reconciliation. so this is far from over, and i don t think it s going to be a bad thing for republicans come election 2018. i think by the time we get there if obamacare has not been repealed and it s still in place, it will have caused so many problems with rising premiums, businesses having to lay people off because of how expensive health care is, there s going to be a clamoring. and i think republicans were smart to start this process. and if they get done by election day, that s going to be better for them. elizabeth: okay, i want to move the conversation a little bit forward because i want to talk about the senate. that s what we re going to be talking about for the next couple of weeks, perhaps even june until we get that omb scoring. there s a dozen lawmakers getting together vying to make this a better law, and i want to talk optics because there s a lot of men in that group, there s a lot of white men. there s two women that are not included, susan collins from maine and lisa murkowski. so i want to toss to you, blake. when we talk about making this law better, do their need to be more voices at the table that we know of right now? oh, absolutely, there need to be more voices at the table. the thought that only 12 white men are going to craft a senate health care bill is preposterous. i mean, we certainly need to include not only women, but minorityies. and the republican party really has to think about the consequences of this house vote as they draft this bill because the house vote not only eliminates the pre-existing condition option, it taxes older americans, and it looks like that while we don t know what it s going to cost, that it s likely to kick some 24-26 million people off their health insurance which is just a wild endeavor while the only true benefit that any republican can talk about is that it gives tax cut to the wealthy. elizabeth: all right, sean if that s the senate plan, then sure, they can stick with this crew of 12 and achieve that same end. i certainly hope that s not the case. elizabeth: sean, i want to give you the last word. we did have representative rooney from south florida who said that initial omb report was completely false, so there are some voices that say we re going to be seeing a much more positive cbo score this go around, but i m going to go ahead and give you the last word. i think that we ll see a better score. i think that this is the beginning of the process. this is far from over. and for the democrats to be spiking the football saying we re going to win the majority over this, it s really premature for that. elizabeth: gentlemen, thank you so much. we ll be sure to have you back, because this debate is not going anywhere. thank you, gentlemen. thank you. elizabeth: for more on the health care debate and trump white house, be sure to tune into fox news tomorrow for an all new media buzz. howard kurtz talks to former trump campaign manager corey lewandowski at 11 a.m. eastern. and white house chief of staff reince priebus joins chris wallace on fox news sunday to weigh in on the next steps for the administration. check your local listings for time and channel. leland: not the news anybody wants to hear. more rain is on the way to the midwest. an area already dealing with flooding and extreme devastationing, the weather devastation, the weather has killed ten, and it is not over. meteorologist adam klotz with how bad it will get for folks up and down the mississippi: hi, adam. the biggest story as we continue on with this is just the rising water levels. so even though, yes, more rain on the way, the heaviest rain moved on out, but the water levels continue to rise. and that s the issue. areas across the midwest each one of these is under a flood watch, portions of indiana running down to the ohio river, eventually the mississippi, all cresting today and that s going to be a real problem for folks who live right along that waterway. we did see showers move on through the area just within the last couple of hours. this cell getting into portions of kentucky, now down over towards the tennessee area, eastern tennessee. as this moves off to the east, that s good news, it clears off on the back side. but this is a large system and all areas where we re going to see off and on showers. this isn t really heavy rain today, but it s just that rain that s going to linger. it s going to be cloudy, a little bit of a raw day for folks across the area. here s what it looks like on your future radar. this system continuing to slowly lift up to the north and east and not an all-day or consistent rain but off and on showers running into your sunday, eventually running into monday morning by the time this finally clears off and perhaps we see a little bit more sun shine. how much rain am i talking about? here s your forecast and precipitation. these aren t big numbers, anywhere from a couple tenths of an inch up to an inch or two inches. so it s just one of those weekends where it s a good idea, leland, probably keep that umbrella handy, but i m not expecting a lot more rainfall accumulation, not anything like we ve seen in the last week or so. leland: as you point out, the qume la cumulative effect in places like missouri is devastating. yeah, we re seeing it today. leland: adam, thank you. still ahead, we ll speak to the missouri governor on how he s planning to move forward after the severe storms. there s a drive there to get clean-up supplies to those who need it most. that s coming up later in the hour. elizabeth: coming up, one texas police officer turning himself in facing murder charges over the death of a 15-year-old boy. plus, we ll put aside the politics and break down just what is in the new health care bill known as trumpcare. and a photo finish. a dozen athletes from across one of the world s most famous borders in a stunt they say is just for one reason. it s not a protest. it s not a political statement. this is purely for human rights and casting a pot light on human suffering spotlight on human suffering and that every life is valuable. that s what this is about. that fresh air all up in your face. my cousin wilbur in the city has to wear a leash just to go for a stroll. i m sorry, that.no. but with propane, you can live where you want and how you want. and since it s both clean and reliable, you could say propane is man s best fuel. she knows what i m talkin about ykeep you sidelined.ng that s why you drink ensure. with 9 grams of protein and 26 vitamins and minerals. for the strength and energy to get back to doing. .what you love. ensure. always be you. my insurance rates are but dad, you ve got. .allstate. with accident forgiveness they guarantee your rates won t go up just because of an accident. smart kid. indeed. it s good to be in, good hands. saw a car filled with five black teenagers leaving the property. originally, the police chief said the car was aggressively driving in reverse towards the officers, and that s why oliver fired, but after reviewing body camera video, the chief said the car was actually driving away from the officers when oliver was shot or when oliver shot edwards. oliver was fired tuesday, and the edwards family attorney is celebrating the murder charge. i honestly began to cry because i just did not believe that things could actually work the way that they re supposed to work. and so it was a very emotional moment for me. reporter: and oliver isn t the only officer making national headlines this week. on tuesday former south carolina police officer michael flager pleaded guilty after shooting an unarmed black man in the back after a traffic stop to. and then on wednesday, the doj declined to charge officers in the death offalton sterling, the louisiana of altonster sterling. liz. elizabeth: will carr, thank you so much. leland? leland: these folks are certainly dedicated as they took the plunge to show support, they say. a group of people swam across the border yesterday to show their support for immigrant and human rights. swimmers from the united states, mexico, israel and south africa were among the 12 athletes to make the swim in the pacific ocean from imperial beach, california, to tijuana. if you re counting, that is 6.2 miles. how do you carry your passport when you re swimming? elizabeth: maybe you get a waterproof case. leland: yeah. that guy s happy. elizabeth: all right. coming up after the break, a father of five killed in a random act of violence in las vegas. and the gop bill to repeal and replace obamacare is on its way to the senate. but what s in it? we re going to break through the partisan spin and get down to some facts for you coming up next. i think most importantly, yes, premiums will be coming down. yes, deductibles will be coming down. but very importantly, it s a great plan. heads to the senate where senate members say there are a lot of changes to come. a white house reporter at the wall street journal joins us now. nice to see you, louise. big picture here, you do get a sense this is going to be a lot hardener the senate than it was in harder in the senate than it was in the house. certainly, the margin of error is even slimmer. you can t afford to lose more than two senators in the gop caucus. there are at least three gop senators on both sides of the party spectrum who have said they want things that are irreconcilably different from what the other side wants. leland: senators re, cruz and rand paul who basically said not a chance. right. rand paul kind of out there on his own, so everybody has to figure out what s up with the three of them. leland: how much political capital does the white house really have to spend on this, or did they spend it all on the house? they certainly say they re going to be very engaged with the senate. they say people say they didn t think they could get it done in the house, they think they can apply the same sort of magic that they managed to eke out a leland: was this white house magic or paul ryan magic? you know, if you watched the rose garden ceremony on thursday, everybody was lavishing creditten on everybody credit on everybody. republican members had run on this for three straight elections and said whatever happened, they had to at least get something out of the house. that was the real magic. leland: we have of a lot of folks here who have a lot of history covering the white house and capitol hill as you do, and i don t know if anybody could remember the last time there was a ceremony in the rose garden after a bill passed one chamber. it was certainly a victory lap. on the other hand, getting that bill through the house against all the odds could quite reasonably be seen as a considerable victory against the odds for this white house. leland: well, certainly, they want to play it that way. with is there a danger or was there a calculus of whether there s a danger in having a moment like this if all of a sudden it fails in the senate? it also did leave the impression that this was going to be the great, shining moment for their effort. leland: yeah. well, it cuts both ways. after this, especially after it passed, we saw the sort of insane talking points from both sides really come out. if you listen to democrats, you know, if you ve ever stubbed your toe, you re not going to be able to get health care. if you listen to the president, dedeductibles and premiums are coming down, and more importantly as he said, it s going to be great. you get the sense that neither side s really telling you the full deal here. well, health policy is confusing and complicated, and that leaves a lot of room for partisanship. there are arguments that each side can maker for their case. what americans are ultimately wrestling with is this difference between whether you want lower premiums, which you could have, or whether you want to cover everyone regardless of their medical history, which you could always have. americans have never been asked to choose which one they want. leland: that s what politicians do, promise you thinks you can t have. happens all the time. the question though for the white house right now is really how far can we push in the senate to get this through. what cookies are on the table right now. well, the white house knows there are going to have to be changes in the senate. they don t necessarily think the senate is going to be rewriting it perhaps as aggressively as they also know that tax credits and the way they re structured in this new republican bill are on the table, so both are going to be things that occupy people for the next few weeks, months, however lock they re going at this. leland: how worried is the white house about the sound bites being created by the president of pre-existing conditions will be covered, you will have lower deductibles and premiums when we don t have the cbo scoring and really, as we learned from obamacare, there s a law of unintended consequences when it comes to health care legislation? certainly, the last administration did learn towards the end that some of the promises that president obama had made at the beginning were very hard to live up to. but they also saw those as necessary things that needed to be said at the time to get the bill passed. in some ways, you fight the battle that s immediately in front of you and worry about the later battle later. leland: and this white house seems okay with that philosophy as well. sor for now. leland: thanks again. great seeing you. liz? elizabeth: well, we ve been talking a lot about the election in france, but it s not the only big election on our radar this week. on tuesday south koreans will head to the polls to elect a new leader two months after the country s former president was impeached on corruption charges. u.s. relations hang in the balance while tensions rise in the korean peninsula. a 64-year-old civil rights lawyer has a strong lead. moon has been critical of u.s. deployment of an anti-ballistic missile defense system known as thad in south korea, seen here, a move the previous president had endorsed. and take a look at this. severe flooding swamps the midwest. people are not out of the woods just yet. we re going to talk with missouri s governor about the big clean-up and the danger his state is still facing after the break. and police are searching for the suspects seen here accused of fatally punching a stranger. the latest leads in that case and what we re learning about the victim in this very tragic story when we come back. that guy murdered my son. he was a husband, a father to five kids, and he was my best friend. pression is a tangle pression is a tangle of multiple symptoms. that s why there s trintellix, a prescription medication for depression. trintellix may help you take a step forward in improving your depression. tell your healthcare professional right away if your depression worsens, or you have unusual changes in mood, behavior or thoughts of suicide. antidepressants can increase these in children, teens and young adults. do not take with maois. tell your healthcare professional about your medications, including migraine, psychiatric and depression medications, to avoid a potentially life-threatening condition. increased risk of bleeding or bruising may occur, especially if taken with nsaid pain relievers, aspirin or blood thinners. manic episodes or vision problems may occur in some people. may cause low sodium levels. the most common side effects were nausea, constipation and vomiting. trintellix had no significant impact on weight in clinical trials. ask your healthcare professional about trintellix. leland: all right. now down to venezuela as the political crisis there continues. the death toll has risen now to at least 33 people that we know of as socialist president nicholas no during row increasingly cracks down on demonstrators simply calling for elections. that oil-rich country is dealing with hyperinflation and major food shortages due primarily to ma during row s radical left-wing policies. drop in oil prices have added to the country s troubles. u.s. national security adviser h.r. mcmaster met with the national assembly president yesterday who opposes ma during row. they maduro. based on this video, one wonders if a peaceful solution is possible. elizabeth: here in the u.s. people in the midwest are knee deep in clean-up this weekend after heavy rains caused severe flooding across parts of missouri, arkansas, illinois and louisiana. officials are blaming this flooding for at least six deaths in missouri alone with governor eric greitens declared a state of emergency. the mississippi and missouri rivers are expected to crest today. they could reach 12 feet above flood level, so people are not in the clear just yet. governor greitens joins us now from the phone in missouri. governor, thank you so much for joining us, sir. so you re not out of the woods yet, what are you telling residents today? look, this has been a historic flood in missouri. we ve had 13 major rivers and creeks that have passed all-time, historic highs, and tonight it s very possible that the mississippi near cape gerardo, missouri, is also going to hit a historic high. so we are still in the flood-fighting phase of this operation. i ve signed an executive order to get hundreds of national guard troops as well as thousands of volunteers out on the front line ands could not be prouder of the way the people of missouri have responded. first responders have conducted hundreds of rescue operations, literally saving hundreds of lives. we want everybody to stay safe, and everybody on front lines we appreciate their incredible volunteer work. elizabeth: yeah. some of the video that we re seeing is just absolutely, it s breathtaking. i want to talk to you a little bit about the economic impact. i mean, you re talking about towns that are completely underwater, but aside from the damage, i also want to ask you about commerce because there s roads, hundreds of roads that are closed. amtrak is not able to function and especially boat traffic when you talk about the rivers cresting today, so boat traffic is halted. so i want to ask you, sir, about the mic impact the economic impact. look, there has been, obviously, a major short-term economic impact because we have had hundreds of roads closed, lots of trains and, of course, ports which are incredibly important to us here in the state of missouri. longer term we have had some, you know, entire communities which were virtually underwater. i ve been in west plains, van buren, missouri, all of these communities incredibly hard hit including dozens of businesses, hundreds of homes. so for us as we get past the flood-fighting stage, we ll also be moving into the recovery phase. we have declared a state of emergency here. i have every expectation that this will lead the level for a federal disaster declaration, and we ll be bringing resources to the bear as part of this critical economic recovery as well. elizabeth: okay, you talk about resources. i m asking, have you asked for any assistance from the federal government? there s been a lot of talk when we ve seen natural disasters like in that these, perhaps, could be some of the programs or funding that is actually proposed to be cut out of the budget in 2018. so i want to ask you, have you gone to the federal government and asked for help? you know, i spoke to president trump last week, told him about what the situation was here, and his message was really clear. he just said, eric, we ve been watching you and the people of missouri, you re doing a great job, let us know anything we can do to help. so our next step in the process is to do formal assessments of all the the damage throughout the counties in missouri, and then we will make a declaration for this to be declared as a federal disaster which would then activate those federal resources. so i am planning to make that application. elizabeth: all right. my last question, you talked about the national guard and the volunteers. what else are you seeing on the ground there? i know you and i had talked before the break that really you re flabbergasted by some of the people who are reaching out to help the victims of this disaster. i ll tell you, i was in west plains, missouri, yesterday and this is a town that was incredibly hard hit. you had first responders saving lives, and then what i saw was so many volunteers from the red cross, from churches coming together to help their friends, their family and sometimes to help complete strangers clean out their house, make sure that they re providing warm meals, shelter, clothing. and it is really heartening to see the way the people of missouri are dealing with hardship but coming out stronger on the other side. elizabeth: all right. governor greitens, thank you so much for joining us. you are in our thoughts and prayers, sir. god bless you. thank you. leland: now to san francisco where a truck driver escaped unharmed after his truck fell into a sinkhole. the sinkhole was about 5 feet deep, 15 feet wide. the driver had pulled over and stopped when he noticed his truck was starting to sink. then they pulled the truck back out. hmm. elizabeth: all right. coming up after the break, seeking justice. one heart broken family is asking your help to find a man who allegedly murdered this father of five children with just a single sucker punch. plus it was just a year ago that new yorkers first beheld the hinten berg soaring majestically past the new york skyline. elizabeth: remembering one of the worst aviation disasters in history caught on film 80 years ago today. (dog) yeah, these new beneful break-n-bites are great. they ll break off a couple if you sit, you stay. but if you want all four, mmmm. you gotta get cute. you gotta let a baby sleep on your belly. (vo) new beneful break-n-bites, with real beef as the #1 ingredient. remember when you said men are supeyeah.ivers? yeah, then how d i get this. .allstate safe driving bonus check? .only allstate sends you a bonus check for every six months you re accident free. silence. it s good to be in, good hands. my frii say not if you this protect yourself.ary. what is scary? pneumococcal pneumonia. it s a serious disease. my doctor said the risk is greater now that i m over 50! yeah.ya-ha. just one dose of the prevnar 13® vaccine can help protect you from pneumococcal pneumonia- an illness that can cause coughing, chest pain, difficulty breathing, and may even put you in the hospital. prevnar 13® is approved for adults 18 and older to help prevent infections from 13 strains of the bacteria that cause pneumococcal pneumonia. you should not receive prevnar 13® if you have had a severe allergic reaction to the vaccine or its ingredients. if you have a weakened immune system, you may have a lower response to the vaccine. the most common side effects were pain, redness, and swelling at the injection site, limited arm movement, fatigue, headache, muscle pain, joint pain, less appetite, vomiting, fever, chills, and rash. get this one done! ask about prevnar 13® at your next visit to your doctor s office or pharmacy. scarcely 300 feet above the ground now, port hoels open. landing lines are thrown. one is impressed by her mammoth size, her great framework encasing seven million cubic feet. motors are idling. all seems shipshape when suddenly recorded 80 years ago today when the german airship hindenburg burst into flames just before trying to land at lakehurst naval station in new jersey. people gathering there at the crash site to lay a wreath in memory of the 35 people who were onboard and one person who was on the ground who died that day. the deadliest aviation disaster ever, up until that time. only one survivor is still alive today, a now 88-year-old man who was 8 years old at time when his mother threw him to safety. leland: the sucker punch killer who decked a father of five in las vegas is still on the run, and now police want your help to finally bring him to justice. jonathan hunt live from our l.a. bureau with this story which is sad in so many ways, jonathan. reporter: yeah, tragic story, leland. louis campos was looking forward to his brother s wedding. he was going to be the best man. now that brother is instead planning louie s funeral. he was 45 and had five children. he died in the hospital thursday watched over by his wife four days after being sucker punched as he waited in line outside a vegas nightclub. to see his wife laying over his body just broke my heart. his kids. it s the worst. when he was born, it was the happiest time of my life x now the same child it s the saddest thing in my life. reporter: the two men who apparently randomly attacked campos was seen on security camera moments after one of them threw that fatal punch. vegas police don t have much of a description. they say both men are in their 20s, one wearing a white cap, dark shirt and white pants, the other in a dark shirt and tan pants. they re clearly walking down the street and gloating about it. the guy looks like he s so proud of himself, you know? it s just sickening to me. that guy murdered my son. he was a husband, a father to five kids. and he was my best friend. reporter: the campos brothers, there are four of them in all, had arranged a rare get-together in vegas to celebrate adam s upcoming wedding. the brothers say louie was loving every minute of that trip, and they loved every minute they spent with him. now, they just want to see justice for that man who took their brother s life. leland? leland: makes you angry in so many ways to watch that video. jonathan hunt in los angeles. jonathan, thank you. we want to give you an opportunity to see the surveillance video again. not much of a description, but there s a lot you can tell from a video like that, the way they walk, the way they hold their hands. if you have any information on the suspects, you can help. call the las vegas metropolitan police department, 702-828-3521. elizabeth: coming up, devils of the deep putting op a very colorful display at a national park in florida. we ll explain. it s how well you mow fast. it s not how fast you mow. .it s how well you mow fast! they re not just words to mow by, they re words to live by. the john deere ztrak z345r. up close and personal encounter, according to news harold, schools of the dark-colored fish have spent the last week making their way on what s known as the kitty pool. i ve been there, it s beautiful. they don t have barbs so they can sting but, of course, wildlife experts does not recommend petting them. i would say telling me not to worry when that s in the water, i m going to worry. they don t have barbs. they know that how? because it s certain type of rays that don t have barbs. that s not a risk i want to take. so we have big news this weekend. extra hour programming tomorrow, we are covering all things coming out of france which i know just judging by twitter, people are very interested in across the globe, really. it could have major implications whichever way this goes, nationalists who wins and wants to get out of the eu and wreck the euro or centrist
put what on the president? this idea that you just said the the new york times is reporting that the president approved either wrote or approved the that is not an outlandish suggesting. i take the the new york times reporting on its face and why wouldn t a father that s president of the united states want to have a say in what his son was putting out that involves him and his presidency. seems like a legitimate thing that s why i asked. 39-year-old son whose running the trump corporation and the trump organization, so he doesn t need to be looked over the shoulder by his father. here s what i think we need to really focus on and obviously i appreciate you having me on. i need to be clear about three things here. number one, the president was not aware of the meeting, did not attend the meeting and was only made aware of the e-mails very recently by counsel and not seen the e-mails. in fact, you know, i didn t see the e-mail until yesterday and i m one of the lawyers. so there you have it. okay. so that s point one. what s point two? point two is, the three points were. he was not aware, did not attend and just found out about the e-mails or saw the e-mails yesterday. right. let me ask you something, how can you see these e-mails as anything other than proof of russian efforts to infiltrate the election? well, look, first of all i just heard your last guest who said the entire thing was a put up. that none of this true. i know he said that but if you don t think that there are questions of credibility in this situation, whether it s don junior who changed his story or the notion that this man, mr. goldstone who obviously is going to have to come forward and clear this up at some point, can you imagine not firing a guy who made up a lie like this about you, counsellor? can you imagine? if you had somebody working for you who said that you met with prosecutors and had sensitive information and that you wanted to help an election and you don t fire the guy, that s pretty strange? you about it. it s an important conversation, please. the way it s been framed, you re putting her on, the network, all the networks are put those statements on about her as a fact statement. no. i m putting her on that this is her say. she also said don junior and jared and manafort all wanted dirt so badly. she said that also which takes you back to the appropriateness argument for donald junior and a disclosure argument for jared kushner who subsequently amended his disclosure statement and paul manafort which we haven t heard from. i don t represent paul. jared kushner, he amended his disclosure form, so and then donald trump jr. put out the entire chain of e-mails. here s what you have. the e-mails are out. the information about the meeting is out. it was discussed by two of the principals that were at the meeting and what do we have? not a violation of the law. and of course i m a lawyer and because you don t let russia interfere in american election? you know that. doornd junior has said as much. don junior was very direct last night when he was on hannity talking about that. you know political campaigns well. you come from a long line of families in political campaigns. you know what happens. there s a lot of meetings. the ukrainian government was giving information to the dnc and hillary clinton s people on who, donald trump. we re acting as if this doesn t happen. let s look at it very quickly. ukraine is not russia, okay? you can get you can get research from whomever you want, but if you solicit information from a foreign government, let alone a hostile one you could be in trouble with the fec. i don t want to talk about legality that s not my place. if you don t think it was inappropriate to take this meeting, not only are you disagreeing with donald junior, i think we have different ethical standards. donald trump jr. said he would have handled things differently. which i think is the right thing to say and that point is there. i want to finish up with this. you just said that if it s the ukrainians it s okay, if it s the russians that s not. that s not the law. i m saying ukraine is not russia. i think they would be analyzed differently in terms of potential threat to the process, so hesitation is the legal key. we can agree to disagree. why did he say it was inappropriate? what he said was in retrospect he would have looked at it differently. so he would have done it at a different time or thought differently of this decision. it s been criticized on both sides of the aisle. i don t know why you would fight that proposition. i m not fighting and he took it. he had the meeting. you re saying it was okay to take it i think. i m saying no. i m talking about you asked i don t want to talk about the law. appropriate is not a legal standard. i m the president s lawyers. i understand that. if our culture is only about what you can go to jail for, we got a messed up democracy. it s got to be about doing what is right as well. you just said if the ukrainians did it, it s fine. if the russians did it i did not ever say that. i never said it. what i said was in your view is it okay for the russian chris. is it okay in your view for the ukrainians to give dossier information they got governmentally on then president trump to the dnc and the hillary clinton campaign? is that okay with you? is that okay? one, let s be honest. is it okay? not my call special counsel. two, is it illegally no because i think solicitation is what triggers election law standards. this is not about the law. the ukrainians came to the clinton campaign and supposedly this lawyer came to donald trump jr. two observations, one, again, i think it depends who it is coming from in terms of appropriateness not legality. i want people to remember this moment. you and people who support the president and the president himself cannot say enough that the media can t forget the election. we keep dwelling on the election and yet it is you, sir, that brings up hillary clinton as the excuse for dealing with this current situation. no, no. you use hillary clinton because you guys can t leave the election alone. we have moved past no you haven t. you are the one who brings up hillary clinton, not me. you asked me and you just said again, chris, with due respect, you said, if ukrainian does it could be different. i think it would be a different analysis, if a known hostile actor that was cited by our intelligence community for trying to interfere in our election, yes, ukraine is not known for that. do you think the meeting that donald trump jr. took, do you think that the meeting he took was the violation of the law? i don t know. it s not for me to say. the standard is tight. treason say very tight statute. you know it s not statute. chris, you know this isn t treason. it s not my call. by the way, jay, like i feel about running down the road of hillary clinton every time something is brought up about the president, i feel the same way about legal arlts leave it to the special counsel. my concern in this situation is this, forget about donald junior, however, this is proof of an alleged russian agent trying to infiltrate the campaign to the disadvantage and potential. you think she is a russian agent? i m saying that that was the suggestion, that this information was coming from the russian government. why the president would insist on calling this a witch hunt instead of doing what you would think the responsibility of the president would be which is to put your arms around this investigation and you see you see what the russians tried to do to my son, we have to figure it out, all the different ways they did it and stop it, not on my watch. why does he insist on calling it a witch hunt despite what he just saw in his son s own e-mails? look at the basis upon which this investigation was triggered. james comey leaks internal memos that he took of conversations with the president of the united states. he takes them in his meeting with the president. he puts them in his government computer, sticks them in his government desk and creates a memo that he leaks when he gets fired to a friends of his to go to the press for the sole purpose he said under oath of obtaining a special counsel. which is then appointed. there s a special counsel appointed and think about this for a moment. he gets a special counsel is appointed based on what, illegally leaked evidence. i don t think that s okay, and if you were a lawyer in my situation i don t know that it s illegally leaked evidence. if an fbi agent rosenstein. he didn t leak the information. rosenstein is responsible for the special counsel. that is someone that the president leaned very heavily on, said he was of the highest regard. what was the basis of the special counsel being appointed? the whole world knows it. he did the release and leak the information that was to get the special counsel. you have to ask you have to ask mr. rosenstein. oh, okay. chris, chris. he didn t say he did it because comey wanted it and you have republicans stand up and say this was a great move. yeah, chris, do you think that it s okay for james comey, the fbi director to take the notes of his conversations with the president and then release them? a conversation he had with the president of the united states on multiple times, you think that s okay? i don t think it qualifies as a leak unless it s confidential information. you take government property which is this and, by the way, the government s take in the position that it s government property temporary to james comey and you distribute that that s a violation. how come how come the doj doesn t act on it? how do we know they re not? how do we know they are? we don t know is the answer. i get what you re answer but at the end of the day. you still wind up where you are and what we just learned about we learned about a couple of different ways. one is from donald trump jr. himself and the other is from what you would call leaks i wouldn t. what would you call them? what would you call a conversation chris that the president of the united states that he gave to a third party to the the new york times ? why is that not a leak? i don t think it s material. if that s something that s separately investigative that s fine. but as a journalist i look at the sum and substance of the actual information. but this was an fbi director having a conversation with the president of the united states. i understand. it s immaterial to our current conversation. no, it s not. you know this and i know this. conversation between the fbi director and the president of the united states are protected by what, the executive privilege. sure. james comey ignored that and he shouldn t get away with that. that s your position. i accept it but that does not mean that what don junior put out in his e-mails and what came out from people in the white house around the president doesn t matter and that s how we got to where we are right now with this chain. a chain that the president, our president still refers to as evidence of a witch hunt and i don t get it. i don t get it. i don t understand how you can make i ll answer the question. the entire basis upon which this investigation was triggered and took place was what, leaked information by the fbi director. do you believe this is a witch hunt? do you believe there s no validity to the russian interference einvestigation? i think the whole underlying matter this is started is wrong. you don t think russia interfered with the election. president obama supposedly knew that the russians were trying to interfere with the election? what did he do? he went to vladimir putin and said stop it reportedly and he took a couple of their properties. for a couple months. that s what he did. if he thought it was that bifg a deal. what happens? is that a no? is that a no from you that you don t believe russia interfered in the election? i have no idea what the russians did or look, i have no idea what russia tried to do or didn t try to do. you have no idea therefore you must reject what the intelligence community is saying. one step at a time. if you have no idea what they did, you must necessarily therefore believe what the intelligence community said is a lie? no. the intelligence community said to president obama from what we ve seen and what you ve reported and others have reported. they put out a report that said it is in controe vertable. there is no question russia interfered in the election in many different ways. they also said it didn t impact one single vote. which is different. no. no one is suggesting that it changed the election outcome. no, chris, who was the president of the united states when this was taking place? this is a distraction. i m answering your question. who was the president of the united states? yes, they interfered, no they didn t interfere. look, based on the information we ve seen of the russia s supposedly attempted. i haven t seen the data. you haven t either. i m a lawyer and i didn t even understand it. did they do it or not do it? the russians hacked it or not. i have no idea if they interfered. you don t believe the intelligence community. the intelligence community has given inconsistency reports over 17 intelligence agencies. said it all happened then it was reported that it was four. i m not looking at intelligence reports that anywhere different than what you would see in the public. here s what i know. president obama trump s own chiefs, his appointments have said yes this is what happened. you re saying they re lying. no, i m not. that s not correct. what i m saying. what s the other possibility? either you believe them or you don t. have you seen internal intelligence reports on this? nope. no. have i? no. but i have no reason to disbelief these people who are trusted with serving the people of the united states and evidently you do. here s the great question, so president obama knew this was going on, he did very little about it and you ask yourself that question. we have a special counsel investigating issues surrounding the russian probe. that s what the special counsel s appointed for. and the information about the russian hacking and russian attempts to interfere were already previously known. you tell me if you think it s right to have this kind of investigation. i don t think it is. i don t understand the premises. the premise is russia interfered in the election and you want to protect your deposition, you have to investigate how did they do it, what worked? how do we stop it? where are the holes? sure. that s not a job of a special counsel. no. he looks at different criminal aspects of that. did people work with them? was there criminality? if there s nothing there there s nothing there. the special counsel can handle the counterintelligence investigation which is what you re talking about. that s your opinion. they can t. that s not within their purview. that s not what he s doing. he s doing the criminality around this. i asked you if the russian interference investigation is worthwhile or a witch hunt. you didn t want to answer whether it happened and now you re just going into whether mueller should be looking at crimes. no. you asked me about the to be clear, you asked me about the president s statement about witch hunts. i told you that the whole basis upon which and i could say it again, i don t have to bore you with it again, it s the same statement and that is the basis upon which the special counsel was appointed was based on leaked information by the former director of the fbi based on conversations he had with the president of the united states. that s not completely accurate because we noel the doj was looking at it before he did that. that s the counterintelligence community is investigating and looking into the russia situation. that s different than the special counsel s job. i want to be clear on that. of course they re different jobs. even on the face of it, we ve been hearing nothing from the people around the president except we never met with any russians or think about meeting with the russians. time and time again that has proven to be not true. most recently with donald trump jr. who if nothing else showed a willingness to meet with somebody under exactly those circumstances. right, okay. so clearly there are questions to pursue. will they bear fruit? who knows? what would the fruit they would bear? there s no the proof i m not saying there is criminality. i m saying there is a reason to look, because if these people keep changing their stories and they re were lofts meeting connected to the kremlin, it is worth looking at. the financial relationships that we still don t know about because of the lack of transparency from the president of the united states and the people around him and these meetings, if anybody was compromised by the russians in their efforts to infiltrate the election. it s worth looking at for the sake of the democracy. donald trump jr. had a 20 minute with a russian lawyer that produces nothing at least the witnesses have acknowledged that it produced nothing. you re banking on that in a way that i don t think i m just saying i don t think that s a guarantee. look, donald trump jr. said what happened that nothing happened. natalia, the lawyer said donald trump said the meeting was about one thing and another thing. he was correct. the meeting she said it. the meeting was about i don t know that that s true. talking about the magnitsky act also gets you in the same basket of inappropriate conversations. if she s talking about getting rid of sanctions that s a sensitive issue especially if she s willing goif you something good in exchange for that information. you re reading into a conversation that you have no evidence of you re doing the same thing. i m looking at the evidence that you put you all every network, it s not cnn it s every networks the conversation that the lawyer from moscow said, none of that was it. i don t know how that happened. the idea that the person alleged to be an agent of the kremlin saying no, i m not and you banking on that is a little absurd. i m not banking on anything. i look at the law. was there any illegalality, any legal problem with this issue and there s not a legal issue. donald trump jr. said yesterday it doesn t have to be illegal to be wrong. he said yesterday and you reported it and you reported it correct correctly, he said yesterday last night if he was doing it again it was the heat of the campaign he would have done it differently. you know what? he s allowed to say that because that s how he feels. and then we re now speculating on what facts may or may not exist. no, no, i m not. i m asking questions about what we still don t know and you re saying we do know because don junior said nothing else happened even though he s changed his story several times and the lawyer who is allegedly working for the kremlin, she says nothing happened. i don t think the rest of us can be satisfied with that standard. the lawyer whose allegedly working for the kremlin because who knows. she says she s not, the russian government says he s not. goldstone whose apparently the biggest liar in the world says so. this publicist decides to spin one of the most fantastical stories i ve ever seen and, by the way, 24 hours later still isn t fired for it even though just threw his employer under the bus. i know what you re thinking because you re a lawyer. the to give the lawyer a break. i have this thing in my chest that goes boom boom boom. it s called a heart. it makes me human and this defies common sense. the guy had 24 hours. how long would it take you to fire someone who spun a tale about you being a russian agent and trying to infiltrate the election. quickly. here s the differential. i don t know your other guests that you had on the previous segment. i m not trying to disparage his legal capabilities at all. i don t know who he represented. i don t like hitting the lawyers in that regard. it happened in 24 hours. i want to clear up one other point. there s a lot of unknown around the meeting. there s no question about it. we ve been parsing it this morning. there will need to be more understanding of it. legality, morality, ethics, all of it. on this bigger issue of why it should not be called a witch hunt, you had the cia director, mike pompeo, they re loving him inside the agency, the president wanted him in there, he said there is no questions, the russians interfered in the election. questioning that premise seems to do a disservice to the service of this country and i don t know why you play with that conclusion. i think it s a disconnect. the president is talking about the entire process of this whole special counsel that s going on, not the counterintelligence determination. you got to look at those. he never has said in full throated fashion, those russians are on notice. they interfered in our election and they re not doing it on my watch. he brought maybe they did. maybe it was somebody else. he brought it up. the president said he brought it up multiple times with vladimir putin during the g20 and don t conflate, i don t think it s right to conflate a counterintelligence investigation that mike pompeo is doing. that s true. you should keep them treated separately. he is at a minimum unclear about that. he watches the show. i m sure he s watching you right now and feeling good about things. he should feel free to tweet, russia interfered in the election they re not going to do it again. going after my people for helping them is wrong. that would seem to be what your describing, but jay i can t keep you any longer. the counterintelligence investigation going by intelligence with regard to russia or anybody else, that is a completely different process and what the president s talking about which is the way this entire special counsel process is about. he should be clear because it matters a lot and it undermines the confidence and gets a lot of people in this country thinking the same way which is not a way to protect democracy. he asked vladimir putin multiple times about it. at the end of the day, i don t think it s fair to conflate those two but i do appreciate you having me on. always. you are always welcome on new day to discuss what matters. always. thank you. thanks so much. let s discuss everything that you just discussed with jay and see all the things that he said along wall the latest russian revelations. we want to bring in our panel. we have senior political analyst ron brownstein, julia pace and all allis fill mont. there was a lot of between chris and jay about the intel community as chris pointed out donald trump s own intel chiefs including the cia director, this is of course your wheelhouse have concluded, that russia meddled. what did you hear there? i heard a couple things. first one thing we ll put aside for a moment. there was a referral to this as a heat of the moment decision. we should get back to that allison. the president s son has had 13 months to think about this and he never actually bothered to review his e-mails to determine if the word russia was in a subject line. hard to believe. this is not a heat of the moment decision to keep this quiet. on the issue of the intel community, i think there is a really significant point here in all the noise and there was a lot of noise in that conversation, one basic question, did the campaign officials including the president s son willingly accept a meeting to discuss receiving information from a hostile foreign power? yes, we know this from the e-mail. exactly. the rest of this about heat of the moment, about 20 minutes, the real story allison on the other side of this investigation is who hacked the dnc e-mails and whether they ever had a conversation with the trump campaign about those e-mails. we don t know the answer to that. we have one tiny clue that s being lost in the noise. the campaign was willing to speak with russians who they knew when they walked through the door were going to potentially provide information derogatory about hillary clinton. that s huge. the rest of this to me, noise. does it matter that their argument is that the guy goldstone in the e-mails was lying, which i feel really we have to hear from goldstone. he could be lying, but wow, what a doozy he spun with all this detail. if that s true that he s lying, does it all go away or does the intent to take that meeting still matter? there are two pieces. that suggests to me that anything past the meeting was not significant in terms of the election. i don t think that s a huge issue here. the issue here is there s an e-mail chain where somebody in the campaign in this case the president s son knew the person walking through the door or thought the person walking through the door represented official government circles from a hostile power. all this the rest of this is who knew what when, did don junior think this was a good idea, 13 months ago, i don t think that s the story. you cannot walk into a meeting with someone you thinks a representative of a hostile foreign power and accept information about a rival political party in the united states. you can t do it. julia pays, how is the white house dealing with all of this? we know their public persona and a couple of tweets that the president has sent out and then we read reports of what s going on internally? in talking to white house officials yesterday and also trump allies outside the building, there is a shift in the way that they were discussing this matter with the don junior e-mails versus other revelations that have come out about russia. when those other stories have come out they ve more easily been able to dismiss them as stories that are being peddled by anonymous sources, by people in the intelligence communities. i think seeing the e-mails from don junior in black and white, the very clear language from goldstone about this being part of a russian government effort to aid the president and don junior reanestheticing so favorably whether this pushes the investigations further or creates any legal matters aside, this was a difference for a lot of people who are working in this administration. they may not say it publicly. you may not hear a dramatic shift in tone as we saw from the president s outside counsel just now, but they privately know that this is a much more serious situation than they have been in previously. when senator blumenthal said that thing about getting rid of mueller, i rolled my eyes a little bit. democrats going too far down the road. jay then made a lot of points about how the mueller investigation is inherently illegitimate and based on fruit of the poisonous tree thing. comey leaked it and it was wrong. that made me think differently. ron brownstein, made in the same suit that i have on today, very embarrassing, when you heard him make those points in the contechblt of what blumenthal said do you think there s a chance that the president of the united states would move on mueller? i know he d have to go through the doj and at this point rosen sine that he can t remove him directly, he could try to make it happen? is that even a possibility? yes, there s always been that possibility. he singled in some of his tweets and the key question is whether the republicans in congress who really are the point of leverage on this sends an single that that would be unacceptable to them and that would cause them to break from the president. look, i think for republicans in congress the entire experience with donald trump from the moment he came down the escalator has included being put in the defending things they never imagined they would have to defend from the access hollywood video to hiring the fbi director in the middle of an ongoing investigation to judge cure el, made other things and what the lesson that president trump is taking i think correctly is that while they may grumble in the end, very few of them ever truly tried to impose consequences. they tried to look the other way and tried to rally back to the areas of the agenda where they agree. and if this is, in fact, different for them, if firing mueller particularly now that there is reason for him genuine reason for him to be investigating the president s son, his campaign manager, his son-in-law, if that is truly different for them, they have to make that very clear. phil, you keep hearing, we keep hearing from all sorts of president trump s supporters in the white house, well, let s look at what president obama did? he did very little when he was told, that the russians were attempting to meddle in the election. look at that guy. he should have done something. how do you see it? and that s a very criticism and you ve had that from democrats and republicans alike it s actually beside the point of what we re talking about here. president obama was at least able to acknowledge that russia was meddling in the election. we haven t heard that in a really forceful clear way without other caveats from president trump s still despite what we re told by rex tillerson and other aids about his conversations with putin in their private meetings. we re talking bay move basic question when it comes to the russia meddling with this president. again, it has just spurred this broader investigation that now with the president s own son and these e-mails makes it look like at the very at least there were people in the trump campaign who were open to talking about russia and talking with russia and trying to get helpful information from moscow. we re out of time. do you have anything to add to that in just a few seconds? i would just say, if you look at the balance, the former president of the united states spoke with in serious terms to the american people, sanction the russians, expel diplomats and close facilities, also approached the russian president. president trump spoke evidently with the russian president. if you balance the two, i can t figure out how the white house said what they did was light. the white house has done nothing. panel, thank you very much. great to get all of your take. donald trump jr. says he considered the meeting opposition research. should he have seen it that way? should he have agreed to it knowing it was from russia? we discussed with campaign insiders next. wait till you hear what they have to say next. for me this was opposition research. they had something maybe a concrete evidence to all the stories i had been hearing about that were probably underreported for years not just under the campaign. i wanted to hear it out. really, it went nowhere and it was apparent that that wasn t what the meeting was actually about. we have allis stuart for ted cruz great to have both of you and all your vast experience on with us this morning. robbie, it must be a little surreal for you to be back into campaign mode, back remembering those days. 13 months ago. what did you think yesterday when you saw the reveal of all of these e-mails? i was surprised by the tone of the e-mails and how don junior seemed to embrace without missing the beat that the russian government first of all was supporting his father but second of all want to go get involved in the campaign but sadly, i wasn t surprised to be perfectly honest that the russians were doing this and this kind of contact was taking place. this is what we ve suspected for some time and just to reinforce some of what was being said this morning. this was staring at us all the time. the republican party s platform was changed in cleveland to become more friendly to russia. they removed protections for the ukraine. the russian ambassador was hanging out at the republican national convention and we knew last year that one of trump s advisors carter page was flying over to moscow and giving anti-american speeches. there was a lot of evidence bubbling up and the experts certainly told us once the dnc hacked that was the russians. i m not surprised that this happening, but boy, i was shocked that they were this sort of cavalier about some thing so serious. i know that you ve said in the past day this story has gone from a quote, nothing burger to red meat for the mueller investigation. i like the metaphor. what do you mean? we go from no meeting to a meeting about adoptions to now we know for a fact based on these e-mails that the meeting was set up specifically with regard to providing information that would be incriminating to toward hillary clinton and helpful to the trump campaign. robbie is familiar with how this works. i ve been on five presidential campaigns. people are always coming forward with opposition research and generally you have lower level staffers receive the information. when you have three top officials from the campaign meeting with someone they don t even know their name or not sure what they re talking about that raises questions and the way they shove this under the rug for so long, i think that raises concerns. i just want to talk to you about that. obviously what has been said is that all candidates, all campaigns, if they got some sort of juicy e-mails suggesting research on their opponent, of course they would go to that meeting. what does it tell you that the campaign chairman and a top advisor to the candidate went? it means that they expected to get some valuable information and the key is, like i said, this happens all the time. campaigns are always searching for opposition research. the main difference is we re talking about receiving it from the russian government. any one with half a brain would immediately call the fbi. you go back a year ago when robbie spoke about this, the questions of russian leaks and whether or not russians were involved in spreading information that would discredit hillary and help the trump campaign, donald trump jr. criticizes robbie and said that he was disgusting liar and questioned his moral compass and that s the concern. he knew exactly what was going on. he knew what robbie said and others and journalists were right in what they claimed, however, he tried to discredit them and i think that s the concern. moving forward, this isn t going to be about something that might be illegal. it might be improper. i don t think it s about a crime. it s about credibility and it s not about litigation, it s about the repeated lies we have surrounding the story which continues to raise many more questions. i want to ask you about one thing, robbie that keeps coming up. we have had a dozen guests, supporters of donald trump, republicans say this, which is a-ha, the clinton campaign did the same thing. they made with the ukrainians, they got opposition research from the ukrainians, so why is the media focusing on this. why don t you focus on what hillary did? what s your response. i literally have no idea what they re talking about. you didn t go to ukraine or someone on the campaign, you did not go to the ukraine to get opposition research? no. absolutely not. and what i do know happened was that reporters got information directly from the ukrainians of secret accounts where paul manafort, trump s campaign manager was receiving millions of dollars for work that he was doing to help a kremlin backed candidate. so that you did get? i m saying reporters got that. i read about it in the paper like everybody else. i think they re trying to confuse us. just to be clear because they ve said it so many times. you don t know of any meeting no. for get going to the ukraine. you don t know of any meeting between the ukrainian government and the hillary campaign? not at all. if foreign nationalists were reaching out to us with opposition research, there would have been a deliberate discussion about how to manage that both from a concern, you know, legally and ethically but also concern for staffers. we don t want our staff getting in trouble. and the other thing i would point out here that s interesting about this. we had people coming to us all the time, particularly a lot of workers and contractors that got stiffed by donald trump. these people were vetted very carefully before anybody talked to them but also relatively middle or junior staffers on the campaign were the ones who interacted with them. either the trump campaign thought this was information was so important that they needed the most senior people or they thought it was so secret that they didn t want more junior people reaching out and having these conversations. or they re newbies, not paul manafort. not paul manafort. paul manafort has a lot of questions to answer about ukraine. i think this is, you know, just a lot of dust that s getting kicked up. alice i want to play for you what one of the top counsellors, kellyanne conway said about this on new day, listen. you have don junior i think america matters. i never met with anybody to have anything to do with russia, now he s saying he met with someone to get research on hillary clinton who was connected to the kremlin. he never said the word opposition research. vomit words like collusion and russian interference. all of which you have no evidence. for me this was opposition research. they had something, you know, may be concrete evidence to all the stories i had been hearing what do you think about their responses to all of this? i think it needs to be a lot more concise and from their standpoint if they say there s there, put it all out on the table. let s get it all out there. let s let mule tr do his investigation and put this behind us. it is a tremendous, tremendous distraction and i think we can t continue to say that trump junior s naivety backs in the time makes this okay. let s get it all out there. there are a lot of republicans in this town that want to do good work and unfortunately they re engaged in verbal gymnastics trying to distance themselves from this or trying to say let s let the investigation play out and they can t get their lettingive accomplishments done and i think that s important. i think the credibility issue right now is important and it s putting a stop on making the ability for republicans to have legislative accomplishments. get it all out there, put it behind us and move on to what the american people really care about. there you go. thanks for being here. the kremlin says there is no proof russia interfered in the u.s. election. they say that these donald junior e-mails should be dismissed and there s nothing to investigate. that s the kremlin. is that a legitimate basis for defense on these matters? what does this mean to our democracy? we will hear from former cia and nsa director michael hayden next. the agent, everything about it is untrue. so let s bring in somebody who can help us make sense about what does matter and what the remaining questions are. the former director of the cia and nsa, general michael hayden. thank you for joining us. good morning. so, let s get to it. when you see these e-mails, what questions do you have? well, i think phil mudd actually captured it exactly. it s interesting, maybe even important what happened before, what happened after, but what s core is what s in the e-mail in black and white. that the trump campaign at the very highest levels, people related to the president at the highest levels agreed to accept a meeting from what they agreed to be a representative of the russian government who is volunteering their support to try to get donald trump elected president of the united states. that s very clear and frankly i think that s a game changing exchange in that e-mail chain. tell me about that. why is this after all the threats for all of these months, why is this one in a different category? it provides linkage from what, number one, we know the russians did. all right? that s a established high confidence judgment of the entire american intelligence community and don t obfew kate this with three, four or 17. the overall american intelligence community, high confidence judgment, the russians interfered in the american election. we ve got a lot of work to do to prevent them from happening again and i fear that the current administration isn t putting enough energy into that but allison to answer your question, the criminal investigation we have underway was is about the question, is there a link between the already established russian effort and people inside the united states whose similar activity would constitute a crime. that s the investigation. we don t know that a crime has been committed. all we ve got in the e-mail is an expressed willingness on the part of the trump campaign to cooperate with what the russians were doing. the general is famed for having a great b.s.o. meter. where is your b.s.o. meter on your defense from the kremlin but also from trump allies and his own and the counsel for the family that s referred to this this e-mail chain, that this man mr. goldstone made up these detailed accounts that he has in here about the meeting with the crown prosecutor and what the information was and why it was being owned. that he made it up. this man that was not fired by the man he was represented about, by the way, do you buy that can it be completely b.s.? no, i don t. i instinctively base on my life experience discount the russian denials. i come back to my core point. it really doesn t matter what you had in the e-mail was an expression that was accepted by the trump campaign and then a willingness to have the meeting. the intents there is regardless. we ll get all the other details and frankly my instincts are this is part of a sustained well orchestrated, synchronized effort on the part of the russian federation to infiltrate and effect the american electoral process. what do you make, general, of president trump resisting his own intel chiefs as recently as last night, cia director pompeo reiterated once again the unequipcal belief and evidence that russia meddled. what does it mean that the president doesn t go along with that? it s very disappointing and reflects my comment earlier, allison, that i don t think we ve got enough energy on that track here, not the criminal track, but the counterintelligence track, what happened, why, how can we prevent this from happening again. the american account, the american account of the meeting in humburg between president trump and president put irch has president trump beginning the meeting with, i ve got to get this behind us, did you do this is what he said to vladimir putin. that s the american version. that s conceding serve in the whole exchange. the question was not, did you do this? we know they did this. and it turned the confrontation, so to speak, into a discussion as to whether or not we had enough evidence not holding russia to account to this. the day before the president called into question the judgment, reminded everybody of my gen rags intelligence officers mistake with regard to iraq weapons of mass destruction and then finally said we can never know for sure. that s teeing up the putin
reporter: yeah, wolf. as you said. this is going to be a campaign-style rally here in phoenix. one of several the president has held since the inauguration. it s actually going to be the furthest west that donald trump has gone since becoming president, and we should expect some familiar faces on hand with him. the vice president, mike pence. his chief of staff, john kelly. it s also notable who is going to be absent from this rally. arizona s two republican senators. both john mccain and jeff flake, very critical of the president. both of them had very harsh words for him after his response to the violence in charlottesville at that press conference in trump tower one week ago. and the president didn t hesitates when responding to that criticism, specifically from jeff flake. he took to twitter last week saying that the arizona senator is weak and a non-factor in the senate. and praising his potential gop primary opponent dr. kelly ward. it s unclear whether or not dr. the response he s gotten in his remarks on charlottesville and heard from the chief of phoenix police who says her officers are ready for anything, wolf. all right, boris. thanks very much. boris sanchez getting ready for the president s first stop in arizona in yuma. bringing in our political panel. chris cillizza, cnn politics reporter, abby phillips, white house reporter for the washington post and cnn white house reporter jeremy diamond is with us as well. chris, it looks like that speech last night, very disciplined, very organized. you can criticize it, praise it, but it does seem to have the influence of his new white house chief of staff, general john kelly? well, john kelly has been in the job for about three weeks now. we ve seen a lot of undisciplined donald trump between then and now. including his comments about charlottesville. but the speech was disciplined? it was. he stayed on message, on prompter. odd if he went way off prompter. usually off prompter when interacting with folks as oppose to just giving a speech. what we ve seen, though, with donald trump is a series of false starts. a series of theoretical reset buttons pushed only to have a day later, two days later, a week later, either via twitter or a rally, him return back to sort of who we know him to be as a candidate, which is he likes to play with the crowd. he likes to throw red meat to his base. this is an interesting test, given the back-to-back. if he is able to do this in arizona, if he is aible to avoid relitigating charlottesville in some way, shape or form. able to stay away from controversial topics, i would be somewhat impressened and frankly surprised, because we ve not seen his capacity to do that in the two-plus years he s been both a candidate and now president. everybody is bracing for a very different donald trump tonight in his rally in phoenix. abbeou abby, opposed to what we saw, read from the two teleprompters on each side of his lector? right. one of the reasons he does rallies, his aids know he needs taken out of the box sometimes and taken out of the white house and out in the public and feeds off that. needs it to feel comfortable in this position. the problem is that too much freedom can sometimes be a little bit of a bad thing. it causes him to really react to the crowd. i think the protests outside to the degree that he will know they are there might be another source of problems for him, but just to go back briefly to a point you made, wolf, earlier. one of the interesting things about john kelly and his role in that speech yesterday was maybe less so what was said and just how they got to the point where he was giving a speech about afghanistan. he didn t tweet his decision on afghanistan. it didn t really leak out of the white house, and that s why you saw people like paul ryan praising the process even more so than the decision that was made. the president in his speech, jeremy, last night, did somebody r something rather unusual for him. he add knowledcknowledged he wa against his longtime instincts. listen to this. my original instinct was to pull out and historically i like following my instincts. but all of my life i ve heard that decisions are much different when you sit behind the desk in the oval office. okay. basically easy to say something when you re a candidate or a private citizen. a lot more difficult to implement that as other presidents have always learned once you re in the oval office. yes. it was a rare moment of reflection. albeit a scripted moment of reflection from this president. but i think that this white house is kind of trying to have one of the reasons he s going to arizona in the first place, symbolism of visiting. at the wall, have an opportunity to talk about it. i do think this issue of afghanistan and how we deal with fortune wars is profound about the trump administration and breitbart is correct that trump sb bought into this war last night. acknowledged it wasn t going to end anytime soon. that isn t going away. underlining who is trump and is america first going to survive now that steve bannon is no longer in the picture. another risk this rally has tonight. this is a president who is probably aware of the way that breitbart covered this. probably aware of the fact his former chief strategist, steve bannon, is unhappy with him and ready to go out and knock him on this afghanistan decision and he now needs to go out tonight and reassure his base. he needs to rally his base. and one of the ways he does that often is by making controversial statements, by going out on a limb. showing them again this off the cuff persona who captivated millions of americans during the campaign. so the risk is that the president in trying so hard to reassure his base goes too far in terms of making controversial statements and getting himself into hot water. and important to see how he deals with the sensitive issue of children brought here to the united states, as little kids, by undocumented parents. whether he allows the so-called dreamers to stay in the united states, legally, have some sort of legal status, or if he goes back to some of the comments made during the campaign that anybody who came here illegally has to leave, and come back quickly. dreamers, look, donald trump s taken a hard-line on immigration but on dreamers acknowledged, this is a very difficult issue. no easy answers for. by far his most moderate on that piece. if that irritates some of the base. absolutely. your body was made for better things than rheumatoid arthritis. before you and your rheumatologist move to another treatment, ask if xeljanz is right for you. xeljanz is a small pill for adults with moderate to severe ra for whom methotrexate did not work well. xeljanz can reduce joint pain and swelling in as little as two weeks, and help stop further joint damage. xeljanz can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal infections, lymphoma 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prevent cavities. go beyond brushing with act®. it was not only morally am biggious, equivocating. the people radio responded, david duke and he messed up tuesday. right monday and right about an hour ago. he was wrong. when reading from the speaker of the house paul ryan during a town hall with jake tapper here on cnn. commenting on president trump s response to the recent violence in charlottesville, virginia. bring back our panel to discuss. chris cillizza and jeremy diamond. he acknowledged he messed up. not often you hear the speaker of the house acknowledging that that president messed up. right. the comments speak to the degree to which donald trump messed um to use the speaker s words in this instance. yesterday we heard the president, again, return to his scriptive remarks and make unifying remarks about not directly charlottesville but essentially the state of affairs in the country right now, and but the problem is we ve already heard from donald trump. heard him speak from his heart, offer prompter, frustrated with the state of affairs in the media at the moment, and i hate too say it. i ve seen this movie before and we re looking at it again potentially tonight as the president heads to phoenix to host a campaign rally. not just a campaign-style rally but actually paid for by his re-election campaign. we risk seeing the president once again dive back into this issue. hope of his aides he won t and let his comments yesterday stand on the final words of last night. the problem with the president. you know when he s speaking from the heart, as jeremy said and when he s being scripted. last night struck me as kind of, you know, a little odd. because you know what trump is like, when he really feels something. thinks it s important. he cares about it. he speaks very differently than how he did last night, and i think that s why you can t just put something on a teleprompter and undo the damage of charlottesville and, frankly, paul ryan is putting it out there, he messed up, but what now? what are the consequences for that? i think there are actually a lot of republicans who want trump to do more than he did last night. who want him to generuinely spe from the heart. the damage is not undone. this is going to be a problem for some time and even paul ryan s comments are not going to be enough to put the issue to rest. he opened remarks last night in front of the military personnel who gathered there at fort myer just outside of washington, d.c. in arlington, virginia, there was crowd of military personnel. whites, blacks, asians. i m sure you know, catholics, protestants, muslims jews, gay, you know, everybody was in that audience. the military is very well integrated. he looked out at that crowd, and he said, a wound inflicted upon a single member of the community is a wound inflicted upon all of us. strong words. words he should have said earlier, but he used that occasion before he got into the afghanistan policy to speak about healing this nation, which is significant. yes. i thought he did it in a deft way, too. jeremy is right. never came out and said, you know, charlottesville, okay. i screwed up. here s my attempt to make good on that. he talk and the military, makes sense in this audience, you point out, wolf, the subject matter, used the military as indicative of the need for a broader unity. very well integrated. and going to combat it s not democrats and republicans, not liberals, black and white, it s one unit. nicely delivered by him, i thought. the problem is, or the potential problem is, that donald trump seems to always take one step forward, two steps back. one step forward, two steps back in that, as you heard paul ryan say. i like what he said on monday. didn t like what he said on tuesday. liked what he said an hour ago. see about what he says ten hours from now. that s always the problem. the way you get to the white house is incredible to message discipline. covering a campaign, all they do, give the same speech over and over and observer agaver ag. donald trump is not that guy in a way made him appealing as candidate but so difficult to project what he ll say tonight or a week from now. abby mentioned, yes, for a day, maybe a week stays off twitter. but always sort of cycles back to who he s been most of his adult life. what do you think, jeremy? refer to charlottesville in his speech in arizona tonight? it s impossible to predict. one thing i ve learned covering donald trump the last two-plus years. you never predict anything anymore. and a lot of republicans would love to hear him say, i m sorry. i apologize. i made a mistake. here is what i feel in my gut about the kkk, about neo-nazis, about white ssupremacists. they are not very fine people. i think so, but two important things to remember. first, we know how the president loves to bash the media at these rallies, and the media has been largely carrying a lot of this coverage of the criticism of the president s remarks and response to charlottesville. there s the mine field number one. the second thing, we know that despite the outrage in washington, we know that a lot of his comments, his initial resposr response to charlottesville resonated with the president s base, or a portion of the base. president doesn t see the need for a knee-jerk reaction against these white supremacists or against anyone who support confederate monuments and actually supports them without supporting white supremacists and neo-nazis. society president, what steve bannon tried to convey to the president in his last week at the white house, is, listen, you can t forget about this base. can t forget about these people. don t listen to jared and ivanka and all of those people urging you to moderate on this issue. nothing wrong with trying to expand the base. nothing wrong from a political he needs to politically. yes, his base still with him, but not currently big enough to get him re-elected. quickly. he s been pretty happy with the reception of his speech last night that might carry through to today. feeling more positive about the media environment he s in. stick around. chris, abby, jeremy, guys, appreciate it very much, the u.s. war in afghanistan drudged on more than 16 years. president trump says he knows how to win there. we ll assess this with a republican congressman of colorado. standing by live, a key member of the house services committee and marine corps combat veteran. we ll discuss with him, right after this. ry one of them. only proprietary tempur material precisely conforms to your body. you get up to twice as much pressure relieving power, so you won t toss and turn. and tempur-pedic is the best at minimizing motion transfer from your partner. you ll sleep deeply. and wake up, feeling powerful. now through september 17th, save up to $500 on select adjustable sets. find your exclusive retailer at tempurpedic.com and it s also a story mail aabout people and while we make more e-commerce deliveries to homes than anyone else in the country, we never forget. that your business is our business the united states postal service. priority: you won t replace the full value of your totaled new car. the guy says you picked the wrong insurance plan. no, i picked the wrong insurance company. with liberty mutual new car replacement™, you won t have to worry about replacing your car because you ll get the full value back including depreciation. switch and you could save $782 on home and auto insurance. call for a free quote today. liberty stands with you™. liberty mutual insurance. president trump has laid out his long-awaited strategy for afghanistan. last night the president spoke in broad strokes saying he didn t want to give specifics to the enemy. what we heard from defense secretary james mattis in baghdad when asked about the specific numbers of u.s. troops who could be a part of this new commitment. i prefer not to go into those numbers rights now. the first thing i have to do, level the bubble and count for everybody on the ground there now. the idea being that we re not going to have different pockets we re accounting for them in. i ll tell you what the total number is, and there is a number that i m authorized to go up to. i have to look. i ve directed the chairman to put the plan together now. obviously we ve been discussing this option for some time. when he brings that to me i ll determine how many more we need to send in. joining us now from denver, colorado. republican congressman mike coffman. a member of the house armed services committee and veterans affairs committee. sor and congressman, thank for joining us. look, sounds like nobody is ready to commit formally to the new number they re what? about 8,400 u.s. troops. 8,400 u.s. troops in afghanistan right now. there s another almost 25,000 u.s. contractors there in afghanistan. 10,000 of whom are u.s. citizens. how many more troops? have you been briefed? how many more u.s. troops is the president now prepared to deploy. i haven t been briefed yet, but certainly a change in the rules of engagement is very important, as well as some increased presence. the point is to put military pressure on the taliban, to get them to come to the negotiating table. i believe there s a path to a negotiated settlement. if, in fact, they feel that pressure. right now they don t feel the pressure. they feel they re winning, but there is a path for some governance model that involves the taliban. because the vice president, we were just talking about, mike pence, was on the today show this morning saying the generals want another almost 4,000 troops. so if there s 8,400 now. that would bring it up to more than maybe 12,000 or 13,000. is that really enough to get the job done? well, i think two things. first of all, i mentioned the change in the rules of engagement. right now the taliban cannot be targeted unless their a direct threat to u.s. forces. however, we re there to support the afghan government and they re an existential threat to the afghan government. so the change in the rules of engagement will allow us to directly target them even in not a threat to u.s. forces. that s very important, as well as not having a specific timeline and have a conditioning-ba conditioning-baconditionins conditions-based approach. and the question i have, somebody covered the war for, what, 16 years, at one point the u.s. had 100,000 troops in afghanistan. couldn t get the job done with 100,000 troops. back to the bush administration. the obama administration. now seems the president is having a bit, a little bit of a surge there going up. what makes you think that 14,000 or 13,000 troops really in the long run is going to make much of a difference, given the history, the geography, the nature of the population? the nature of the terrorists, including the taliban in afghanistan? well, don t get me wrong. i think that it was a mistake to be there in the first place, bupt we are there and the question is how do we extricate ourselves from afghanistan? and i m glad to hear the president s reiterating his opization of nation building as an iraq war veteran. it s very important. it was a mistake in afghanistan, a mistake in iraq as well. from a u.s. national security perspective. you know, i just think that this reminds me of vietnam, where in 1972 president nixon wanted to extricate ourselves from, u.s. forces from vietnam and he had to bring the north vietnamese to the negotiating table who felt they were really winning and had no cause to be there, to negotiate. so he did operation linebacker an intensive bombing campaign in north vietnam and they came to the negotiating table and we were able to extricate ourselves from vietnam. we need, what we need is intense military pressure again, for the purpose of bringing them to the negotiating table. he s signaled in a very important way that that prospect of of some type of governance involving the taliban. that was an important signal to send in his statement, in his speech last night, that clearly will be, you know that the taliban will be paying attention to. that on one hand, it was the fist of toughness, and on the other hand, it was a statement saying that we want to negotiate with you. that there is a path to a negotiated settlement. the president also directly challenged both pakistan and india. neighbors over there. to do more in the region. as you know, pakistan very much, at times, a key ally in regards to afghanistan, but not necessarily all of the time. listen to something the vice president, mike pence, said earlier today, because i think it s significant. listen to this. pakistan just simply needs to do more. we all think back of the time that the the mastermind of 9/11, osama bin laden was found, living in a compound in pakistan. literally, within just a few short miles of her mail teilita academy. putting them on notice. they need to step up as a partner and if they want the united states to partner with them with security in the region they need to do more to confront the terrorist organizations using particularly northern pakistan, waziristan area as a safe haven. all right. you re on the armed services committee, congressman. did the pakistani military protect osama bin laden? i there s still a question about that, but what is not in question is they re playing both sides in this war. by allowing the, the afghan taliban to have safe harbor in their country. and and folks like the haqqani network. they ve been playing both sides and it s important to bring them onboard. it will be interesting to see the reaction from the pakistani government, particularly vis-a-vis the fact we re asking india to play a larger role in afghanistan, and they see india as a moral throat their country. so b so but i think both messages were important and we ll have to see, you know, where the chips fall on this. the vice president, he said the u.s. now, the trump administration is putting the pakistani government on notice, and he, on his own, brought up the whole issue of osama bin laden hiding out in pakistan a few miles away from their chief, their main military command headquarters. their training facility over there. i thought that was significant. we re going to follow-up on that, of course, a lot more and pakistanis are watching all of this closely. congressman of colorado, thanks as usual for joining us. thank you. the collision between the uss john s. mccain and oil tanker often the coast of singapore. when we come back, a lot more on the sailors thought missing in the tragedy. and plus a look into the investigation of how this accident happened. i switched to t-mobile, kept my phone-everything on it- -oh, they even paid it off! wow! yeah. it s nice that every bad decision doesn t have to be permenant! ditch verizon. keep your phone. we ll even pay it off when you switch to america s best unlimited network. book your weekend break direct with hilton.com and join the summer weekenders. we believe in food that s anaturally beautiful,, fresh and nutritious. so there are no artificial colors, no artificial flavors, no artificial preservatives in any of the food we sell. we believe in real food. whole foods market. matt rivers joining us live from singapore. matt, what else are we learning about the ongoing search? reporter: it s still going and unfortunately the news has not been good over the last 24 hours or so. we heard in the last couple of hours from the commander of the u.s. pacific fleet to gave a press conference kwrmi iconfirms turned fatal. the divers sent time at the pier where we are now going through the compartments, the sealed compartments inside the hull of that ship that were damaged as a result of this incident, and as they were able to access those compartmen compartments, is where they found some remains as put by the admiral of those missing u.s. sailors. he wouldn t say how many were recovered inside the hull of the ship. at the same time, wolf, you had the malaysian navy, actually, helping in the search and rescue operation. they found a body in waters near where this incident happened. that body now in the process of being transferred back to the u.s. navy for identification, and wild they are still calling this a search and rescue operation, recovery, at this point, it does seem to be coming upon us quickly. there s also some new information, matt, about the moments leading up to the crash. what have you and our team learned? reporter: yeah. we know that a u.s. navy official tells cnn it appears there was a steering failure shortly before this incident happened, and that a backup system either wasn t utilized or available, but also is not clear whether that steering issue was what actually caused this crash. so that s going to be one of the questions that the navy is now asking as part of a broader review. it s now going to undertake throughout the entire u.s. navy. not just what s going on here. wolf, this is the fourth incident of ships deployed to this region, apart of the 7th fleet of the u.s. navy,s that been involved in incidents in 2017 alone. remember it was in the middle of june that the uss fitzgerald crashed into a container ship killing seven u.s. sailors. this is yet another fatality incident with this latest ship being involved in another crash. this time with an oil tanker. the navy rightly asking the question, what s going on here? do we have systemic problems, and if we do, we clearly need to fix that moving forward. certainly do. matt rivers in singapore for us. retired rear admiral and cnn military an legitimate john kirby joins now. thanks for joining us. the ship s steering went out supposedly just before the crash. what potentially could cause a problem like that? could be anything. maybe maintenance wasn t done. an electronic or electrical failure causing some of the system to go down. they ll figure this out, if, in fact, it s true there was a steering casualty in the moments before the collision. i can t imagine that had something to do with the collision itself. is it the only factor? maybe not. did the crew have other alternatives to try to get the steering back on? yes. matt said, maybe didn t utilize them or they weren t available. we ll have to let the investigation pan itself out. and unusual to have warships involved in these accidents in this year alone in this part of the world. isn t it? very unusual. not only four accidents but four ship-handles accidents. three collisions and a grounding. get down to ship handling in the same region of the world. why the admiral called for a comprehensive review of forward deployed naval forces. they need do that soup to nuts and take a lard look at this and why he ordered a one-day pause, at least a one-day pause across the entire navy to make sure we re looking at safety, safe navigation and, again, manning resources and equipping. admiral, chief of the u.s. navy, there have been suggesting fl there are cyber attacked aimed at the warships. the tweet put out in response to those suggestions. from admiral richardson. sow clarify possible cyber intrusion or sabotage, no indications right now but review and consider all possibilities. is it plausible that some enemy of the united states is using a cyber attack to go and deal with the navigation, the steering, of these huge u.s. warships causing these four collisions? i think it s why is that the navy is going to consider all factors and take a look at this. they have to. particularly in a networked environment we re in. there are networks on the ship open. they re not open-open. they re secure, but, look, it s highly unlikely. the ship s cyber defenses are significant. not, not saying they shouldn t look at it, but very signific t significant. putting a fine point on it. talking about the steering system. the steering system on a ship has electronic components, it is not networked off the ship. there s no way into it from off the ship. so i think we can put that safely aside, but it s wise for the navy to be willing to look at all factors here. that said, again, i find it highly unlikely that cyber intrusion wos have anything to do with what happened. and he says, no indications now, review, will consider all possibilities if is a cyber attack. that would be a huge, huge problem. it would be, wolf, but honestly, really surprised if it had anything to do with this. all right. we ll see what the investigation comes up with. thanks very much for that. retired rear admiral john kirby, our military analyst. president trump says his goal in afghanistan is to win. after 16 years of american boots on the ground what does winning look like? we re going to discuss that when we come back. walter? hmm? is that the rest of our food? what? no. how come you have cheese in your beard? because switching to geico could save you 15% or more on car insurance. oh! ok. geico. because saving 15% or more on car insurance is always a great answer. whoa! gross! until recently, is it much different than what we ve seen over the past 16 years? well, the strategy they unveiled is in the significantly different. the key point, and he highlighted this, is he wanted it to be a condition based as opposed to a time-based situation, but other than that, essentially, it s the same strategy, perhaps with some of the rougher edges kind of filed down. there were edges to the obama strategy that the military, the generals particularly, weren t comfortable with. limits to troop numbers, limits to authorities, some other limitations listen to what the president said about pakistan, a very sensitive issue. listen to this. we have been paying pakistan billions and billions of dollars. at the same time, they are housing the very terrorists that we are fighting. but that will have to change. and that will change immediately. no partnership can survive a country s harboring of militants and terrorists who target u.s. service members and officials. that does represent a change, the tough talk on pakistan. we didn t necessarily hear that very often from the obama administration or the bush administration before that. well, we didn t hear the tough talk as much, but if you ll recall, you know, under the obama administration, there was a significant escalation of drone strikes against terror targets. but the aid continued, the billions of dollars. it s certainly been a carrot and stick approach to pakistan for many years, with strikes along the border, with aid coming to help them fortify themselves against these insurgencies so it s a difficult situation. what we need to see, wolf, is whether or not conditions on the ground actually change. will we take a different approach to pakistan or will we continue pace as we ve been going for years. but the dilemma of that, the president used to feel, because i interviewed him on this many times when he was a candidate or a private citizen going back at least 15, 20 years, this war has been going on for 16 years, when the u.s. had 100,000 troops in afghanistan, couldn t get the job done, why should anyone believe 10,000 or 15,000 u.s. troops could get the job done. it s a legitimate question and frankly, 10,000 or 15,000 troops won t make that much of a difference. keep in mind that when there were 100,000 american troops, the afghan army barely existed. today, the afghan army is over 300,000 strong and it s gaining in capabilities. it s not nearly to the point that it could be and should be but it s much stronger than it was before. is it true that the afghan government really only controls the major cities, the capital, kabul, some other areas, but vast chunks of the country are controlled by the taliban, other terrorist groups, and now you can confirm this if you can, iran is developing an isis much greater involvement in afghanistan. isis is certainly trying to gain a foothold and interestingly enough, we see the taliban fighting isis in certain parts of afghanistan. we see vast swaths of afghanistan that are either wholly ungoverned or that are controlled by the taliban or other network personnel. it s across the map. so, what we ve seen is the ability of the afghan forces to control anything outside of the cities really hasn t gotten up to par yet. so do you think that when the president slightly opened up talks to the taliban, that s going to make a difference. it is an important point and if there is an opportunity to talk to the taliban and the president is willing to do that, i think this is worth considering. steve warren, our newest military analyst. welcome to cnn. thanks very much. former spokesman over at the pentagon. that s it for me. i ll be back 5:00 p.m. eastern in the situation room. for our international viewers, amanpour is coming up next. for our viewers in north america, newsroom with pamela brown starts right after a quick brown starts right after a 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talk about the e.u. the e.u. is not a very democratic institution. when you look at the majority of people in poland, in other parts of europe, they support these policies that the e.u. elites themselves really deplore. there s talk earlier this year of the e.u. sanctioning the czech republic and poland and hungary for their immigration policy. huge majorities in those countries favor restricting migrants. they don t want the country to be flooded with migrants the way germany has been. the e.u. wants to punish them for that. when we talk about e.u. or european elites, we aren t really talk about people who care all that much what actual citizens of poland want. or think. tucker: you see that here in this country on display every day. how long can fake democracy continue? ethically seeing the repercussions, the backlash from everything about his little puppet donald trump. our president is walking into a room tomorrow morning in hamburg germany with a guy looking across to them like you re looking at me who knows everything, who knows every meeting that his people, mike flynn, jared kushner, anybody else. who met with the president. he knows it all. if he had excitement in the hotel room in moscow, years ago, he s got those pictures, is looked at as a million times. he knows every thing about donald trump. tucker: you can t edit live television, but still. back in reality, the question is which of the president be looking to gain from today s meeting with the russian leader. for that we turn to an actual expert on the subject, a russian speaker, stephen cohen is a professor at nyu, taught at princeton, also contribute an editor at the nation magazine. he joins us tonight. professor, the first thing you notice is just how much the press is rooting for this meeting between our president and the russian president to fail. why? why were they wanted to fail? it s kind of pornography, justice like there s no law against there is no american interest. as a historian, let me tell you the headline i would write instead. what we witnessed today in hamburg. potentially historic new, anti-cold war partnership, begun by trump and putin, but meanwhile attempts to sabotage it escalate. he said it was an expert. i actually do have one expertis expertise. i ve seen a lot of summits as we call meetings between american and russian presidents. the president even participated the first george bush s summit preparation, when he met with gorbachev and invited them to the camp david. in that context, i think what we saw today was potentially the most faithful meeting between american and russian president since the war time. the reason is that the relationship with russia is so dangerous. and yet we have a president who might have been crippled by these russian attacks on him, and yet he was not. he was, i think, politically courageous. it went well, he did important things, and this will be astonishing to be said but i think today we witnessed pertinent stomach witnessed tonic president trunk i think it was a good day for everybody. tucker: how much of the attacks on russia from, how much do they really have to do with iran and russia is with iran and syria? i think a lot. you ve got three major actors being demonized in america. one is putin. second is trump. but then the leader of syria, president asada, is demonized here remember the main thing which you today, and i said this before, i thought the primary aspiration of trump should be an antiterrorism alliance, i thought that was vital, that is in fact, and they said as much, what they spent their time on today. they formed an alliance. that means that we will side for now with russia with assad. that will be assailed in washington because he s loath in washington, almost as much as trump and putin. tucker: but why is that? can you put a finer point on that, my frustration in this debate is that a lot of the players in it are not straightforward about what they are really for them what they are really against. their agendas are closed. why is assad the focus of so much anger in washington? i don t know. i try only to talk about things i ve studied. what i do know is that when the syrian civil war began five, six years ago, there were a lot of dirty hands in that mix. including american hands. everybody was arming somebody. we have a monstrous war going on there with so many groups being armed by so many different states, but the thing about assad to me has always been, and maybe this is colloquial, but he has been the protector of the and christians, and the nonjihadists islamic population in syria. at a time when the main threat there, the islamic state, isis, caps off the heads of these people. it would seem to me that we should stick with assad until we defeat these people. focus, if you will, before we end, something that both trump and putin said today, they said we are meeting, we have agreed, and we promise positive things to come. in other words, they have formed a political partnership. and now it goes forward, but it will be viciously attacked. and already has. if you look at the press today. tucker: mindless. thank you for the common sense. stephen cohen joining us. thank you. thank you. tucker: hamburg germany the latest city to be wrecked internationally violent left-wing protests. up next, we will talk to some but says violence in the streets like which are watching now paints the legacy of the civil rights movement of the 1960s. he would know because he participated in it. and then marin county is one of the nation s richest areas, one of the most liberal of course. so why is the county doing its best to stop the construction of affordable housing? 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(vo) a lifetime commitment to getting them home safely. love. it s what makes a subaru, a subaru. when itrust the brandtburn, doctors trust. nexium 24hr is the number one choice of doctors and pharmacists for their own frequent heartburn. and all day, all night protection. when it comes to heartburn, trust nexium 24hr. your insurance on time. tap one little bumper, and up go your rates. what good is having insurance if you get punished for using it? news flash: nobody s perfect. for drivers with accident forgiveness, liberty mutual won t raise your rates due to your first accident. switch and you could save $782 on home and auto insurance. call for a free quote today. liberty stands with you™ liberty mutual insurance. tucker: marin county california is one of the richest places in the united states. it s pretty nice if you haven t been been there. sean penn lives there. he has a per capita income of more than $98,000. 77% of its residents voted for hillary last fall. all that money and all that progressive values you d think that people in marin would be willing to implement liberal policies, and usually they are as long as they don t inconvenience them personally. consider affordable housing, and california subsidized housing is required everywhere, but marin doesn t want it. mark levine is a liberal democrat who represents the county in the california state s family. he is putting a proposal that would give marin county a special exemption from statewide affordable housing requirements, despite the fact that if there is any place on the planet that could use more affordable housing its suburban san francisco. marin can probably all seems a little bit of that diversity thing they are always talking about. as of last census, the county is less than 3% black, which is what liberals call segregated. there s no doubt that if you ask local residents they would have excellent reasons why marin county shouldn t have to follow the same reasons as everybody else in the state of california. they say the need to preserve the county s charm or its historic character or they will vaguely note that housing projects bring crime problems. and maybe hurt schools. keep in mind, they definitely are racist. they aren t afraid of diversity, it s not they voted for donald trump or something. actually, to become highly honest we believe them. they probably aren t racist. most americans aren t. but when you vote for the policies of enforced diversity for everybody else, would he tell the rest of america that they are bigots for not wanting a housing project next door or somali refugees flooding into their kids schools, you probably ought to follow the same rules yourself. they don t, because they never do. the second day of the g20 summit in hamburg germany sought even more violent protests which injured almost 200 police officers. which is of course stated model for a lot of the protests we are watching pete how do they compare? first of all let me just say, i was involved in the civil rights movement even in the mid-50s when i was stationed in the military in the south, and i was the subject to police intimidation and for three years after i was discharged my heart would race when the police officer was behind me. but i also was a veteran of the civil rights movement led demonstrations in west chester pennsylvania. i realize that what is happened over the past few years is that the civil rights movement has morphed into a race grievance industry. it s also it s hypocritical in that they are using race to justify the generation of iniquity. we demonstrated in the 60s, we did so for the purpose of increasing inclusion for tweed and tennis traits we could have separate graduation ceremonies. we also demonstrated to change the climate. we were peaceful. we sought the support of the place. we also were disciplined, we made certain that we had the proper role models, such as rosa parks, someone of good character. the civil rights movement of the 60s has now been hijacked by the left and has become a race grievance industry, and they are distorting it and really just destroying what we have created. tucker: so, mr. woodson, when you having personally fought against segregation look around and see the left pushing to reinstate segregation as you just said, separate graduation ceremonies, separate dorms, separate parts of the cafeteria and colleges. what do you make of that? is that beholding to you? first of all, it s even worse than you are portraying it. when people have deeply held blades, these beliefs are challenged with facts and truth, what they have to do is create destructive myths. the myth is that the conditions that you see low income blacks are in today is somehow a legacy of slavery and jim crow and therefore what you are witnessing now is the legacy. that is just not true. in the past, blacks were in slavery but not of slavery. blacks were in segregated, but they were not of it. blacks were in poverty but not of poverty. in other words, from the time of slavery up until the 60s, even though we were facing these odd odds, were old people could walk in their communities without fearing for their grandchildren, we didn t have out of wedlock births, our marriage rates in the 1930s to 1940s was higher than the white marriage rate. but all of that changed in 1960 when we met this tsunami of liberal academics who said one of the things we have to do is to make welfare a right, and then reparations. we also disconnected work from income, and this was purposely done by the liberal academics at columbia university, and they said if we do this, it means that fathers will be irrelevant, drug addiction will go, school dropouts will increase, and so what we are witnessing, what they could not accomplish, liberal policies of the 60s did. as a consequence we now have 70% of children are being born in single-parent households. but this did not happen during segregation. urban renewal destroyed all of the commercial centers around the country, and so it s just a myth. and it s a real crisis. tucker: must be so bitter for you to watch. robert watson, thank you for the perspective. i appreciate. thank you. tucker: president trump the administration is besieged by an unprecedented number of leaks. it really is unprecedented. we kept track. is it endangering the country? 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do hawks use the stars to navigate? i don t know. aw, i thought you did. i don t know either. either way it s free for everyone. cool. what s in your wallet? how if guests book direct ater, choicehotels.com and stay twice they ll get a $50 gift card? summertime. badda book. badda boom. got you a shirt! .i kept the receipt. book now at choicehotels.com tucker: the trump administration s had an unprecedented number of leaks in its first six months. not a week goes by without the new york times, cnn, washington post touting a new store that relies on the revelations of unnamed sources. some have been interesting and newsworthy, others have been false. a majority have been x granted. in your report by the tenant of homeland security confirms it s not your imagination. this administration is averaging at least one link per day pertaining to national security. protecting the country has taken a backseat in the eyes of many bureaucrats to undermining the president they work for. to me, he joins us tonight. mustafa, thanks for coming on. thank you. tucker: them and make the obvious point, which is i m not against all leaks. i have benefited from a lot, i think the public has a right to know more than it does. and sometimes they are useful. people don t like them, but tough. but some of these leaks out of this administration are coming from career bureaucrats who shouldn t be divulging sensitive information which they have privy, have access. and also our leaked purely for the purpose of undermining a president they don t like. in so doing they hurt the country. how can you defend something like that? i think the leaks are dangerous. i think sometimes people that are making these leaks may not realize the consequences of it. recently we saw a leak, from a young lady, reality tv, an odd name tv, she served in the military and was a contractor with the nsa. likely she s going to go to jail for this. leaks are dangerous and we have to be careful, but the issue that we are finding in this administration we are seeing more than ever is that when president trump has to he has to get the respect of the people that are serving him in these agencies. you have to work harder at doing that. so far he hasn t done that. all the tweets, all the attacks, they are giving a hard time to people that work in these agencies that are civil servants, many of them not very highly paid. and when he doesn t read the presidential briefs, instead he watches cable news shows, attacking people on twitter. tucker: as a factual matter, they are highly paid, federal bureaucrats make considerably more than their private-sector counterparts. so they are well-paid. people serving in the fbi, they are not highly paid people. they could make a lot more money in the private sector. these are people who worked in the military, that dni, there are a lot of people who from give their life to protect our nation. tucker: yes there are. my father worked in the federal government, i m not against federal employees. and mine worked for tucker: and when he worked for president, you have two choices. you can either work to forward his agenda which is your job, or you can resign. would you take the same position if soldiers didn t respect the chairman of the joint chiefs and turned their guns against him? he would say no, you work for the military. you protect the country, you do what you re told. if you don t want to, you leave. it s not a matter of earning the respect. they are undermining national security because they don t like him. i think you make a very important point. there s a lot of leaks that are coming from within the white house that these are the people that he has handpicked. they are the only ones in the room at times he makes a call to a foreign leader. a lot of the leaks are also coming from within his administration, within the people he has chosen. has come he, look, a lot of leaks are coming at a very high level that are people that are in the room that are coming from the administration. you and i both know that. you work in media. tucker: slow down for a second. there are leaks coming from the political staff in the white house. leaking against each other, turf wars. that s conventional. ugly, but it happens. but the leaks that matter and the ones that undermine our ability to run the government and to be safe are the ones coming from the permanent staff. for example, may 23rd of this year, the president of the philippines and trump have a conversation. the contents are leaked. that didn t come from his staff. they have no reason to do that. how does that help the country, leaking some like that? look, i give an example of the lady named reality tv who is a contractor. mid-20s, she does make a lot of money. it s a silly name, that s what her name is. president trump has to work harder to appeal to the people tucker: s you are blaming trump for reality winner? that s no less i think the president has to earn the respect of the people that wear the uniform, that worked very hard to put their lives in danger. he could not these are not people that are property or tucker: i don t know why you make excuses. it s totally against the law and it s wrong. he is to do a better job. tucker: thanks. we talk a lot effect of illegal immigration on the economy, but what about the effect on the environment? next up we talk to a progressive environmental professor next. stay tuned. in jellyfish. in clinical trials, prevagen has been shown to improve short-term memory. prevagen. the name to remember. i ll go for that too. eliquis. eliquis reduced the risk of stroke better than warfarin, plus had less major bleeding than warfarin. eliquis had both. don t stop taking eliquis unless your doctor tells you to, as stopping increases your risk of having a stroke. eliquis can cause serious and in rare cases fatal bleeding. don t take eliquis if you have an artificial heart valve or abnormal bleeding. while taking eliquis, you may bruise more easily. .and it may take longer than usual for any bleeding to stop. seek immediate medical care for sudden signs of bleeding, like unusual bruising. eliquis may increase your bleeding risk if you take certain medicines. tell your doctor about all planned medical or dental procedures. i m still going for my best. and for eliquis. ask your doctor about eliquis. tucker: 25% of the city s residents live in poverty, that s one of the highest rates in the country. crime was always high there, but now it has exploded. in the first six months of this year, 365 people have been shot. a55% increase. there ve been a most 100 murders, putting in contention with baltimore and lewis for title of america s most deadly city. even more frighteningly, only about 37% of the city s are even solved. he can be gunned down at random while walking through the french quarter, and there is nearly a two-thirds chance your killer will never be found. the mayor knows what he has to do to save his city, and it s obvious if you think about it, fix global warming. in the state of the city address, he announced an ambitious plan to save new orleans to increase recycling, cut carbon emissions, and massively increase its solar energy output, all to stand in contrast to the trump administration which has recently pulled out of the paris climate agreement. between this and tearing down all those statues in the city, it is shocking that the mayor can t seem to get a handle on the city s crime problem which is the single biggest problem. focusing on superficial issues popular with the coastal he doesn t seem to be helping. president has pushed for restricting immigration into the note said, focusing on the alleged economic problems as a result of immigration. those are the only reasons to oppose the british. what about the classic liberal because of protecting the environment? he s the author of the book how many is too many, the purpose of art meant for reducing immigration into the united states. he joins a snippet professor, thanks for coming on. good to be with you, tucker. tucker: it seems like i was looking for you for a year. when i was a kid, there were liberals, and progressives who said i m not against immigrants or anything, but too many people is bad for the environment. it seemed an obvious point. i can t find anybody in the left he says that other than you. what is your argument? the ornament is relatively straightforward, tucker. immigration currently is driving u.s. population growth, and population growth is a big part of many of our environmental problems. so part of the progress of has to do with that. if you care about creating a sustainable environment, you need to look at immigration driven population growth. tucker: because you don t go to midtown manhattan furniture, you go to yellowstone because there s fewer people. why is the sierra club and the nrdc pushing for reductions immigration? years ago, when you go back to the 70s and even into the 1980s, the sierra club did have a policy that the u.s. should reduce immigration to levels that would stabilize the u.s. population. but over time, that got to be a harder and harder argument to make. for complex reasons. really, starting about 20 years ago, environmental leaders dropped the ball on population. so there are quite a few of us, though, who is to believe an important component of sustainability. we are trying to make that case. tucker: crowded countries are dirty, all of them. it s obvious if you travel. what does our population look like if current trends continue, say 100 years from now? what are the effects on the environment? currently our population is 326 million people in the united states. if we keep immigration levels where they are, we are on track to add 200 million more people by 2100. the output of at about 525 million people. when the other hand, if we reduced immigration tucker: weight, stop your out there. we are on track to add, to be at 500 million by the end of one? how long by 2100. tucker: by the end of this entry? by the end of the century. most of this population growth is driven by immigration. if you get to play cut back to the levels of immigration we had 50 years ago, we do be untracked to stabilize our population in a few decades. basically what happened the american people have chosen to stabilize our population, having about enough children to replace ourselves. but congress has increased immigration in recent decades and so we are on track to add hundreds of millions more people. that has a pretty large environmental impact. whether you talk about greenhouse gases, sprawl, loss of wildlife habitat. people make a difference. tucker: 500 million people by the end of this century. so if you are watching, your children will live in a country with 500 million people. that s a remarkable number. professor, i hope you will come back. i m sure you take a lot of for saying stuff like that on the left, but good for doing it. i appreciate the opportunity to come on. thanks. tucker: any time. u.s. military is moving ahead with policies for integrating transgender soldiers into the army chemic armed forces. why is the question. social engineering or will it make our military more effective in fighting foreign wars? we debated with a former member of the obama administration nex next. it s happening, it s happening! in the modern world, you can control just about anything with an app. your son is turning on all the lights again! you can do the same with your car insurance with the esurance mobile app. esurance. click or call. tucker: late in his second term, president obama implemented new policies allowing transgender individuals to serve openly in the military. secretary of defense james mattis has now reversed that policy, though he has delayed allowing transgender to vigils to enlist by an actor six months so the military can prepare. how is the military preparing? new training manuals, which among many other things tell female soldiers they should except seeing naked men in the shower. all of this making our country safer? hector graham failed was a obama national security appointee and a speech writer, he joins us. ask for coming on. thank you for saving the simplest issue for the last of the week, right into the weekend. tucker: i think it maybe the simplest issue. all changes to military policy ought to answer one question, doesn t make the the country safer? tucker, i think you are righ right. when i worked directly with secretary ash carter on a number of personnel reforms, whether it was repeal of don t ask don t tell, whether it was women in combat, or whether was transgender service, the question was always does this make our force more effective. ash carter, he s a physicist. he wants the data. he wants the facts. he s not an ideologue, and neither is general mattis, the secretary of defense. that s how we approach these question, but also in mind that we have the finest fighting tucker: first of all, he s a coward. he is a coward who should ve resigned. because in no sense with the deity described or not does this make the country safer. if you can prove otherwise, the floor is open. how does this make america safer? tucker, we have to concentrate on the breadth of today and making sure that our force is ready and able to fight and win our nation s wars. that s the mission. at the same time with the elect of the and make sure that we recruit from the broadest possible pool of america s best. we have an all volunteer force. we have to draft, we have to recruit from a number of different communities throughout the country. in the past you ve seen how the military has expanded to different ethnicities, different races, women in combat. tucker: you re not answering the question. what you re saying is this is a massive social program designed to affirm different communities to put political pressure on the white house. that s fine. but the pentagon ought to be only concerned with winning wars and securing our safety. how does this advance that in any way? give me make me feel better. the way the country wins wars is that we have a military that constitutes america s best, reflect america were people want to serve. we ve seen how it is changed from the revolutionary war. it s change in a lot of ways in terms of put recruits, who it attracts. still, we have the finest fighting force the world is ever known. part of that is that we need soldiers to make that true. tucker: that is just logan s beard military, the army is now saying that female soldiers have to get used to it. they are not allowed to complain about seeing naked men in the shower because if you identify, self identify without going any physical changes, as transgender, the military has to accept your gender designation. if you say you are woman, you are woman, and other own have to deal with it. whatever you think of that, how does that help the war in afghanistan? right now there are between 3,009,000 individuals who are transgender currently serving in the military. and they served with excellence. they served pride, they serve with dignity. these are the people who despite all sorts of obstacles, all sorts of prejudices, they want to serve their country. it s the courage, it s their commitment to their country, not their gender identity. tucker: you re totally missing it, i m not attacking them at all. i admire anyone who wants to serve the country. but the question is, is the country best served by this policy? it s not about empowering individuals. it s about safeguarding the country. i don t see how this achieves that. you don t have an answer because you know this is a political sop to an interest group that the administration was afraid of. toby called them on it because everyone s too embarrassed in a mud called. nobody s tucker, i m not calling you a bigot or anything like that. the rand corporation on the west coast, it s pretty conservative, and they ve said that this would have minimal impact on readiness. so it s not like you have a group of the month tucker: it has minimal impact. that s the standard? as long as it s with minimal impact? shouldn t every decision make it a more effective fighting force for the sake of the country to protect. this does not do that. it was made with that question in mind. it was made for other reasons. that s why they should ve resigned when they made you do this. should secretary matus resign if he continues it? i don t think so. he came up with a six-month delay to make sure that the policies are right and that we get the training rights that our military can continue to serve independent country. tucker: patrick, thank you for the game of catch. i appreciate. thank you, tucker. tucker: up next, washington, d.c., city council think that is a problem. it s solution, giving minorities a chance to get to the medical marijuana business. it sounds strange. nick was born to move. who was there for you when you had amnesia? you know i can t remember that. stop this madness. if it s appreciation you want you should both get snapshot from progressive. it rewards good drivers with big discounts on car insurance. i have also awoken from my coma. it s called a nap, susan lucci. severe stomach pain and/or diarrhea, and tears in the stomach or intestine. tell your doctor about any side effects and about medicines you take. movantik may interact with them causing side effects. don t back down from oic. talk to your doctor about movantik. remember mo-van-tik. if you can t afford your medication, astrazeneca may be able to help. politicians in washington, d.c., as found ways to improve the population. officials are worried that too few black residents were selling marijuana. only one dispensary is owned by an african-american and that s not good enough. so there is a special bill that would bring more diversity to drug sales. councilman emphasized the importance of helping former drug offenders open drug shops. this is not a joke. this is entirely real. they are actually pushing for black people to sell drugs. that s it for us tonight. tune in on every show.