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Karen houppert. She is our guest on after words and interviewed by jenna green of the International Law journal. Host it is a pleasure to meet you. I really enjoyed your book, chasing gideon. I thought that we could start at the beginning. Who was the somewhat unlikely figure who made such an impact on history Clarence Earl gideon was an itinerary cap. Guest he broke into a pool hall and accused of stealing some change from the jukebox, a couple of beers come a couple of bottles of wine and arrested and brought to court there in florida. He approached the judge on the day of the trial and said...

Of africanamericans in this country. So by the time Robert Smalls died in 1950, he died brokenhearted, and financially, not near as well off as he once was. And so i have spent a lot of time talking about the history of this. As i used to say to my students when i taught, if it happened before it can happen again. And we see all the speculation about what the Supreme Court is going to do with the most important civil rights act, which i think was the Voting Rights act of 1965. And most experts think that thats about to come to a significant, and i call, a noble end. Oh grams of affirmative act...

Host when you were bussed into the inner city, did you have a particularly sort of strident stance on the question of desegregation, the question of School Integration . Guest i think as kids, you dont think about it. Looking bag, i mean, even when i was reading back at the reaction for kids in the 70s when they started busing the kids, said, you know, i like it at the school, and they didnt think about it. It was the same way for me, but as we got older, i started to think about not only going to schools and being surrounded by poverty that i didnt see in the neighborhood in the suburbs, that...

Looking at segregation between School Districts in long island and this and that between these issues but the reason i wrote it is i go out to the Public Schools when i was in second grade in the inner city in the housing projects in the poor neighborhoods in the city so it was something i had thought about actively since i was a little kid and so when it came into the Supreme Court i was interested in following that host talking about the personal pieces i like to ask people their personal connection in the story when we get into the meat of it did you have a particularly stance on bus segreg...

So that spurred me to think about these issues. The reason i wrote it, im from louisville. I grew up going to the Public Schools there and i was when i was in the second grade, was in the inner city, one of the poorer neighborhoods in the city. So it was something i thought about since i was a little kid. And so when the case went to the Supreme Court, i was obviously very interested in following it because it was personal. Host talk about the personal connection. I always like to ask that before we get into the meat of it. When you were busing to the inner city, did you have a particularly st...