>> did you work on that a long time? >> donald trump during his campaign called mexicans rapists and criminals. mexicans are rapists and criminals. these guys say all mexicans are bad. >> you whied out that mexican thing again. >> mexicans are rapists and criminals. >> here we go again. >> called women slobs, pigs, dogs, disgusting. >> senator, senator, that was beneath and you hillary clinton, and that's pretty low. liz: what was expected to be a snore fest turned out to be a slugfest at first and only vice presidential debate. this is "risk & reward," i'm elizabeth macdonald in for deirdre bolton. in first public rally donald trump seemed happy with indiana governor mike pence's performance. >> mike pence did an incredible job, and i'm getting a lot of credit because that's really my first so-called choice, that was my first hire as we would say in las vegas. liz: trump seems happy there. critics say trump was underprepared for his first presidential debate. conservatives say democrat vice presidential nominee tim kaine seemed overprepared and hypercaffeinated this time around. many calling out the virginia senator for robotically repeating the same lines over and over, take a listen. >> you called mexicans rapists and criminals, donald trump during his campaign called mexicans rapists and criminals. >> when donald trump says mexicans are rapists and criminals. >> this guy says all mexicans are bad, mexicans are rapists and criminals. >> you whipped out that mexican thing again. liz: mr. kaine repeated trump's comments on women. >> he's called women slobs, pigs, dogs, disgusting. calling women slobs, pigs, dogs, disgusting. donald trump says women should be punished. liz: daily caller news foundation chris bedford says kaine had a managed delivery and made pence look calmer. good to see you, chris. is there a strategy here that basically trump, according to what mccain was doing, strump on the ticket, not pence, and keep those -- the misstatements from trump in the voters' consciousness, looks like hillary is not doing too well in nine battleground states? >> obviously a strategy, to be the attack dog and go after trump, everyone on the hillary clinton side wants to talk about that. and tim kaine was very, very well prepared for that tactic. the problem was mike pence didn't take any of the bait. keft on casting, trying to draw mike pence out and pence wouldn't get bogged down into any argument he couldn't get out of. he ended up getting completely outflanked by pence who came across looking calmer and ended up attacking his boss over and over again. he didn't perry to defender like he could have. liz: mike pence threw back on kaine saying the clinton campaign is the insult-driven campaign against voters. take a listen. >> i cannot believe that ce wil insult-driven campaign that donald trump has run. >> he says ours is an insult-driven campaign? did you hear that? ours is an insult-driven campaign. to be honest with you, if donald trump said all the things you said he said and the way you said he said them, he wouldn't have a fraction of the insults that hillary clinton leveled when she said that half of our supporters were a basket of deplorables. she said they were irredeemable. they were not america. liz: also used the term, hillary clinton used the term basement dweller about college students. this is a push to delegitimize trump on the part of kaine, kaine being unusually insulting. do you think it may have backfired in the voters' minds? what the voter didn't get is the analysis of the policies that will bring america back on the economic track. >> i think it will back fire for the democrats as much as the vice presidential debate can really have an effect. people saw in pence what they were looking are in donald trump. for example, when hillary clinton attacked donald trump on having money from foreign interests, something she's guilty of in the billions for the clinton foundation, trump got bogged down talking about how wealthy he was. instead when tim kaine brought his army into the field to attack donald trump, mike pence sacked the capitol and hit hillary on all the points trump missed in the last debate. that is going to slow the bleeding in the polls for trump and let him get ready to fight sunday. liz: always good to see you, chris. appreciate your time. a new report says tim kaine interrupted governor pence 18 times during the debate. >> employed tens of thousands of people in the country. >> and paid little taxes and lost a billion dollars. >> whether it was ukraine or heavy-handed approach. she had a clinton foundation accepting contributions from foreign governments. >> you are donald trump's apprentice. >> or instead of you violating the constitution. >> we can't know for certain who the people are coming from syria. >> yes, we can. liz: senior contributor to red alert gianno caldwell, and emily shyer with me now. emily, did you feel this is inappropriate? >> look, i don't think the interruptions helped kaine's case in the debate. clear voters think pence came out strong. a problem for the republican party is trump came off strong, a lot of people notice that pence seemed to do a good job of separating himself for donald trump. some suggested he was gunning fair 2020 presidential bid. so as much as this was a boost for pence, unclear whether that would translate to the republican ticket. liz: democrats should be outraged that kaine interrupted a female moderator so many times. listen to this. >> it's the worry that the left and the democrats and hillary clinton's folks love to employee against everyone who doesn't support her. if you don't support hillary clinton you're a sexist why. in the world was her running mate interrupting and ignoring the female moderator, asian-american female moderator like it was his strategy. almost like he didn't hear her. liz: this gets tiring, right? do you think, gianno? we have so many series in this country, would you say it was sexism? >> i think the liberals who argue this statement should be arguing that when it comes to tim kaine, what we saw is tim kaine being the energizer bunny. disrupting, disrupting and showing the true definition of unhinged showing what true strong leadership will look like, and i think me as the republican and conservative feel proud with what i saw with mike pence and i feel there is a number of republicans, independents and democrats that felt comfortable with what they saw in mike pence last night. he brought up things donald trump didn't bring up in the last debate which was basket of deplorables, basement dwellers, number of other things and he rightly prosecuted a case against the hillary clinton candidacy and i think there's a lot of hearts and minds changed when we see the post-debate polls. liz: thank you, gianno and emily, we'll have you later in the show. appreciate it. now this, hurricane matthew, a category 3 storm sustained winds of 120 miles an hour. it's moving fast through the bahamas as a major hurricane. there are reports of 25 people dead. storm is make its way into the united states. take a listen to what the governor of florida had to say earlier. >> we have to prepare for a direct hit. we'll likely start to see impact in our state within 24 hours and last through the weekend. this is a very slow moving storm. that means people have less than 24 hours left to prepare, evacuate and shelter. having that plan in place could be the difference between life and death. liz: here with the latest on the power and the track of this storm, is fox news chief meteorologist rick reichmuth. what should we expect from the storm? >> reporter: i tell you what, the east coast of florida is going to get battered with something they've never seen before. this is the latest look of the satellite image, you see the track moved over haiti and cuba, weakened a little bit. down to 120-mile-an-hour storm. that's a major hurricane. on the latest imagery hit, made a jog to the right, that's probably a little jog and it will jog back, usually the storms at this size tend to wobble a little bit in trajectory. we've got hurricane warnings throughout the rest of the bahamas, right up here through the bahamas and hurricane warnings for florida from just to the north of miami up towards daytona beach and hurricane watches in effect toward the southern part of south carolina. latest track, latest information came out and changed a little bit, pulling it closer to the coast of florida. that's not good news. the yellow is tropical storm form winds. we'll see that likely early afternoon around miami up towards west palm beach is hurricane-force winds, early evening tomorrow night and then potentially see a major hurricane, the white is major hurricane up towards the space coast. cape canaveral and the daytona beach area. the models are still not in super good agreement even in the short term, but the general direction moving parallel to florida instead of perpendicular hit, we see landfall like that from a hurricane, you get all of the damage where it came ashore. i don't think we're going to she with this, we're going to see it move mostly parallel to the coast and probably strengthen back to a category 4, and take a look at this, liz. friday evening or friday afternoon, actually starting from friday morning and tomorrow night, we're going to be watching a category 4 along the coast moving on the coast. might have the eye wall on the coast for maybe many, many, many miles and will cause incredible damage and some of the models pull this inland. if we see that happen, we're already going to see storm surge but more storm surge up towards the jacksonville area as well as parts of the georgia coastline. and take a look at this, we're likely going to get this blocked from moving off towards the north. not think that is going to happen here. likely it blocks and hangs out in the southeastern area off the coast. maybe having some impact again, seven days from now. don't want to focus on that, in the short term, across florida and a slow mover. a long haul, thursday, friday and saturday along the southeast. liz: rick, there's a chance it could hit georgia. i don't think georgia had a direct hit in 100 years, right? >> just based off of the shape of the coastline this concave area, a lot of the storms get deflected like you see this here. they rarely get a storm this far latitude here. we're really, really close to it right there with a category 4 major hurricane. very, very powerful. very damaging. liz: thank you rick reichmuth. staying on the story for you. breaking news, a suspect surrendering to police after allegedly shooting two police officers in lancaster, california. this is in northern los angeles. police were responding to a burglary call. shots were fired. s.w.a.t. was sent to the scene. we will continue to bring you the latest as that develops. we also have this, a state department admitted the iran deal maybe the cause of new aggression toward the united states. my next guest is wondering why vice presidential candidate tim kaine was celebrating it as a major accomplishment last night. he is one of nearly seven dozen generals endorsing trump. he's lieutenant general tom mcinerney, highly respected general and highly decorated general. feels like he's in the twilight zone, after this. hey how's it going, hotcakes? hotcakes. this place has hotcakes. so why aren't they selling like hotcakes? with comcast business internet and wifi pro, they could be. just add a customized message to your wifi pro splash page and you'll reach your customers where their eyes are already - on their devices. order up. it's more than just wifi, it can help grow your business. you don't see that every day. introducing wifi pro, wifi that helps grow your business. comcast business. built for business. . liz: we want to bring you the latest news on what is happening in lancaster, california in northern los angeles. a man reportedly in custody after allegedly shooting both a sergeant and a deputy. police were responding to a burglary call when shots were fired. s.w.a.t. team remains on the scene. it happened near a local college. we also have the local high school was put in lockdown. now the shootings were reported about 12:30 p.m. it happened in avenue j 7 in the lancaster neighborhood. the deputy and sheriff were taken to area hospital. the lancaster mayor is say that the deputy had been shot in the face and he was in grave condition. he did not name who the deputy was. this is a serious situation that has been happening. the suspect did flee. additional police showed up at the scene, it's unclear whether the suspect was shot. the police set up a perimeter as a search for the suspect. right there, you see the s.w.a.t. officer they were dispatched to the scene. the authorities were warning the public to stay away from the area. again, we are tracking the story. the suspect was seen running through the backyard of a home. he put his arms up. again students at the local antelope valley college tweeting they too heard gunshots in the area and the camp us there is about a mile from the scene of the shooting. the college asked the students to shelter in place, avoid the area, await further instructions. other schools in the area were on lockdown. you see the activity happening right there. it's unclear whether that is the suspect right there, it could be because he is putting his hands up. this is footage we are getting moments ago from lancaster, california. looks like they have the suspect in custody. again, it appears one of the police officers was shot in the face. so we'reere, we have with us, d.c. homicide detective rod wheeler. rod, to see this happening in realtime, again another police shooting. >> right. liz: again, we don't really see, we know mr. trump and mike pence have been pushing to have these issues about police officers being shot brought into the forefront of the public's consciousness. right there, rod, what we're looking at is a fiefed the suspect running through the backyard of a home and turns because he couldn't jump a fence and puts his hands up. your thoughts here, rod? >> what we have are police officers putting their lives on the line as we do each and every day and will continue to do that. in this particular situation, you have a suspect that was obviously armed, a home burglary. the officers when they first arrived on the scene, they tried to surround the guy, and the guy was able to get off a couple of rounds, that's when he shot the two police officers. hopefully the officers will survive. the suspect did get away. let me tell the viewers what happened. the police set up a perimeter maybe like a two, three street perimeter around the home, and the suspect could not get any further than that, and that's why they were able to corner him in. liz: rod, you've been on the show too, again we're talking about a suspect who shot two police officers. this is a suburban area. people are scared here in this neighborhood, and schools have been put on lockdown. you've been on the show talking about home invasions, again and again, we see our cops putting their lives on the line to protect suburban areas and urban areas as well. your thoughts. >> and, you know, here's the thing, we know in law enforcement and we been everything that's going on in the country with the pushback against police, but let me tell you and the viewers, suspects on the street they have guns, and they are willing to use those guns, not only against the police but against citizens and we see that today in the horrific situation there in california. so we continue to put our lives on the line, and it's unfortunate. i must say this, it's unfortunate when we engage in this shooting situation, and it happens, it happens every day, and i think police officers try to make the best decisions that they can. look at this situation quickly here. what if that guy turned the weapon on the two officers after he hit the two officers, these are the circumstances we face every day. liz: parents, when they hear things like this going on. they immediately think what about my children, right? you have schools on lockdown. it happened near a college campus. what are your thoughts there? >> you are exactly right, elizabeth, the entire community is in danger at that time. we know we have a suspect out there. local schools in the community, and it's our responsibility as police officers to make sure we keep the schools safe and the community safe. that's why in this situation today, they ordered people to shelter in place. stay in their homes, lock their doors until they could get this guy. again, you are exactly right. we have to look for these people until we can get them to justice. liz: rod, what is the likelihood, as this suspect, again, we have live footage happening now. it's a live shot you're seeing there. could there be a chance the suspect could have turned this into a hostage situation breaking into a home and taking somebody hostage? >> very easily. that's a good observation on your part. this could have easily turned into a worse situation than it already is. it slrd a worse situation because of the two police officers. if this suspect that we already know was armed would have taken namely hostage somewhere in that community, it would have been a terrible situation. again, we're trained, we're specifically and highly trained to deal with the situations and applaud the police officers out there because they were quickly able to corner this guy in. the key here is cornering your is. once you corner the suspect, you can nab him, get him off the street. and the community can resume being safe. liz: bring the viewers up to date. two officers shot, one seriously, shot in the face. this happened outside of los angeles, the northern part of los angeles, lancaster, happened moments ago. the man kneeling with his hands on his head on the ground there. two officers shot outside of l.a. we're very grateful we had expert rod wheeler on with us to give us his insights, thank you, again, sir? >> sure. liz: last night we had senator tim kaine arguing that the terrorist threat to the united states has decreased. however, look at the research that we have. this is from the u.s. government. there have been a dozen successful terror attacks on u.s. soil just during president obama's administration. that's next, don't go away. you can run an errand. 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(announcer vo) sorry traffic, we laugh 'til it hurts. siriusxm. road happy. . liz: we are either in or fast approaching a new cold war with russia. russian relations at the lowest point since the 1970s, senator kaine again celebrated hillary clinton's record with russia. take a listen. >> hillary has the ability to stand up to russia. hillary clinton has gone toe-to-toe with russia. she went toe-to-toe with russia. hillary clinton has gone toe-to-toe with russia. liz: so, we are grateful we have lieutenant general mcinerney with us. he's a highly decorated general. he is an expert on this. you know, sir, looks like there's been basically our ships and planes are getting harassed by russia buzzing them. we had a top diplomat, basically attacked in russia. fighter jets buzzing close to our airplanes. in your mind, to your opinion, has hillary been successful with russia? >> i'm stunned what they're saying emac. the fact is looking at what's happened? they've lost the crimea. in the ukraine, actions going on, they're dominating now in syria, and they've just canceled the relationship, the nuclear relationship we had on downloading the nukes materials, and they think we've had good relations with russia let alone the rest of the world, the rest of the middle east, the south china sea, north korea? i'm stunned when they say this. liz: governor mike pence agrees with you, he thinks we're in the twilight zones with these comments coming out of the clinton campaign. take a listen. >> look, this is the alternative universe of washington, d.c. versus reality. hillary clinton said her number one priority was a reset with russia. that reset resulted in the invasion of ukraine. after they'd infiltrated with little green men, russian soldiers dressing up like ukrainian dissidents and took over the crimean peninsula. liz: general, over the weekend, russia shipped new anti-missile, antiaircraft system into syria that has radar capability looking into turkey as well. why is russia doing this? how do they see the united states now? >> they see a vacuum emac. they see no response from the united states so they are going exploit as much as they can to get through to hopefully 20 january and make the inroads they want to make, and they have been hugely successful, and because of that, in the instability that the obama-clinton regime did over the last nine years, we look at libya, we look at syria, we look at iraq, we look at yemen, we look at lebanon, we now look at iran as the hedgemon. they are now the hedgemonot arabian peninsula. we never had such a destabilization in the middle east and it all revolves around the lack of relationship with russia and allies in the middle east and identifying the threat as radical islam. that's why they cannot identify the homegrown threats because they don't know the ideology and the fbi and the other law enforcement agencies have had all their training removed so they can't ask the right questions. that's the big problems, and that's why this nation needs a change. liz: what is your greatest fear here? >> my greatest fear is five nuclear weapons going off in u.s. cities set off by radical islamists. liz: from iran or where? saudi arabia or wahhabis? >> doesn't matter where. they go off in u.s. cities. liz: thank you, lieutenant general thomas mcinerney. appreciate your time. senator tim kaine argued the terrorist threat to the u.s. has decreased. you heard what the general just said. and our research shows there's been a dozen successful terrorist attacks just during president obama's administration. we have trump foreign policy adviser walid phares going to give his thoughts on that next, don't go away. because, healthier doesn't happen all by itself. it needs to be earned every day. using wellness to keep away illness. and believing a single life can be made better by millions of others. as a health services and innovation company optum powers modern healthcare by connecting every part of it. so while the world keeps searching for healthier we're here to make healthier happen. ...as a combination of see products.. and customers. every on-time arrival is backed by thousands of od employees, ...who make sure the millions of products we ship arrive without damages. because od employees treat customer service... ...like our most important delivery. od. helping the world keep promises. . >> the terrorist threat has decreased in some ways because bin laden is dead. the terrorist threat is decreased because iranian nuclear weapons system has been stopped but other parts of the world are challengeing. >> that's senator tim kaine arguing that the terrorist threat to the u.s. has decreased. sounds just like president obama. >> they do not threaten our national existence. >> isil is on the defensive. our 66 member coalition including arab partners is on the offensive. there are fewer isil fighters on the battlefield in syria and iraq, and for those who are there, it's harder for them to recruit and replenish their ranks. liz: our research based on government information shows there's been at least a dozen successful terror attacks on u.s. soil during president obama's presidency. now the reports that this is news, it's coming out of europe. 7 of the 10 paris attackers slipped into the eu as migrants. nobody knew it was 7. that's a larger number than people have thought. so people are worried that what's going on in europe is a prelude to what could happen here. trump foreign policy adviser walid phares joins me now. do you think the threat of terrorist attacks in the u.s. has decreased? >> that is not what 65 of the 66 or 67 allies who are fighting this fight against isil and the other jihadists are saying when we meet the officers and politicians, they're saying the jihadi threat is much larger in their countries, across the mediterranean and across the atlantic. we found ourselves, this administration, not even congress, alone, with the mediabackers asserting they are shrinking. every time we take a town or village from isis, we count it as isis is going down. isis is expanding to 30 countries. ask the french who introduced this issue in march. and the migrants, the battlefield is much wider than ever before, liz. liz: what's also happening too, we know that fbi director james comey testified before congress saying we can expect the terrorist diafora and mike pence saying it is hillary clinton that allowed isis to form. take a listen. >> primary threat today is isis, and because hillary clinton failed to renegotiate a status of forces agreement that would have allowed some american combat troops to remain in iraq and secure the hard fought gains the american soldier had won by 2009, isis was able to be conjured up out of the desert and overrun vast areas that the american soldier hasn't won in operation iraqi freedom. liz: do you agree with that, sir? >> liz, it's not just this election cycle that is producing the argument that the governor advanced successfully. i was in the previous electoral cycle in 2011, 2012, we were warning that the administration will withdraw unilaterally from iraq without leaving behind not just american forces but allies, we are going to see the return of the jihadis and worse the penetration by the iranians, both happened. that's why now, five years later we saw the chaos in iraq and syria and all over the place. liz: walid, i want to recap what hungarian intelligence officials are saying. seven of the ten terrorists came in through the migrant stream into europe, and those seven of the ten, they were responsible for the brussels attacks. we have new data how many people were killed, and the paris attacks happened a year ago in november of last year. let me give it to you. 368 injured in paris. 137 killed. 32 killed in brussels. 90 injured. you're talking 169 people killed and 458 people injured. i'm not sure how anybody could say the terror threat decreased, walid. >> boy, and by ten jihadis or so. i remember when we discussed the attack at the bataclan and others in brussels, we said three ways, either these are indoctrinated on french soil, jihadis coming to french soil and the hungarian intelligence service is projecting what we projected many months ago. liz: walid, thank you so much. breakingews, two police officers reportedly shot in lancaster, california. this is just outside of los angeles. police responding to a burglary call. shots were fired. students at a local school heard the shots as well. w.a.t. they captured the suspect. this as the vice presidential candidates debated which administration, under which administration police would do better? we've got america's border sheriff, joe arpaio is here to react to that after this. don't go away. what is success? is it a professor who never stops being a student? is it a caregiver determined to take care of her own? or is it a lifetime of work that blazes the path to your passions? your personal success takes a financial partner who values it as much as you do. learn more at tiaa.org i'm jamie foxx for verizon. in the nation's largest independent study by rootmetrics, again, verizon is the number one network. hi, i'm jamie foxx for sprint. and i'm jamie foxx for t-mobile. (both) and we're just as good. really? only verizon was ranked number one nationally in data, reliability, text and call and speed. yeah! and you're gonna fist bump to that? get out of my sight. don't get fooled by a cut rate network. verizon gives you tons of data without all the restrictions. get 20 gigs and 4 lines for only $160. with no surprise overages on america's best network. . liz: we're sitting on this breaking news for you, two police officers reportedly shot in lancaster, california. police were responding to a burglary call, shots were fired. this is happening in lancaster, just outside of los angeles. the suspect has surrendered. a s.w.a.t. team was called in. this happened after dozens of shots were fired at the indianapolis police department headquarters building late last night. no one injured there. but impd spokesperson said if this happened during the day, it could have been a different outcome with injuries. we don't know if possibly worse. and during last night's debate, indiana governor mike pence defended our men in blue. >> the bad-mouthing that coming from people that seize upon tragedy in the wake of police shootings as a reason to use a broad brush to accuse law enforcement of implicit bias or institutional racism and that really has got to stop. what we ought to do is ought to stop seizing on the moments of tragedy. >> senator, please. enough of this seeking every opportunity to demean law enforcement broadly by making -- >> elaine. >> implicit bias every time a tragedy occurred. liz: maricopa county arizona sheriff and trump supporter joe arpaio with me now. two police shootings in 24 hours, six race riots under president obama, and mike pence was quoting hillary clinton saying she says it is implicit bias in the police forces across the country. who do you think the police would do better under? >> donald trump. he's the answer, but let me say this. there's a war on cops. i've been saying it for three years. in fact you want to localize it. i had a substation of mine where a guy went in and fired several shots when a deputy was going in. i had another deputy giving out a ticket, he was shot several times. so i don't know what's going on. i tell you, i've been in law enforcement 55 years, and i've never seen what i'm seeing today. and i have to blame the administration. they ought to put cops in jail, run police departments and my office. i will mobilize my volunteered armed posse next week to support, protect my deputies and protect the four million people that live in my county, and before that massacre in california, three days before, i said all those citizens that had guns if they're in a situation where there's a massacre, i expect them to take the guy down. that might seem rough talk, but something has to be done on a war on cops. liz: sheriff, just looking at the data right here, we're seeing according to the government there has been a spike in officers basically killed in line of duty this year. we're looking at 40 police officers killed by gunfire. 94 overall have been killed so far this year, year to date. now the suspect has not been caught in indianapolis, but he was firing shots so close at the police building th there's a question whether or not this individual was sending a message. what do you think? >> well, you know, i just mentioned about them shooting at my substation when a deputy was walking, in so i hope that the police, i'm sure they will, will do everything they can to bring this guy to justice or guys. we don't know how many, i presume, at this time. >> the indianapolis murder rate, we're tracking that too. it is up there with chicago. that's really interesting. indianapolis on the level of chicago. we know there was a tremendous amount of shootings happening there. what do you know about the crime in indianapolis? >> well, i don't know. i was a federal narcotics agent in chicago, and worked indianapolis on a drug problem. it's not close, it has a connection, we have to be careful in that state not to have the situation occurring in chicago. so let's see what the mayor does there and the police. i'm sure they're going to take some action and not worry about being politically correct like other cities are. liz: we'll be staying on the story. always good to have you on the show, sheriff arpaio. next a "risk & reward" flashback, remember president obama said this about obamacare. roll tape -- >> the reform i'm proposing would not apply to those who are here illegally. >> you lie! [booing] . liz: california trying to change that by becoming the first state to offer obamacare in the exchanges to illegal immigrants. we've got the details next. don't go away. . >> the reforms i'm proposing would not apply to those who are here illegally. >> you lie! [booing] >> remember that? president obama called out by congressman joe walsh when he first pitched obamacare he. promised back then it would not be provided to illegals. but today california is petitioning the u.s. government to become the first state to offer illegals obamacare in the exchanges. governor jerry brown asking to cover nearly 400,000 illegal residents. back with me now, my political power panel, red alert senior contributor gianno caldwell, bustle politics editor emily shyer. gianno, the congressman got heat for that. no tax credits, it will be offered to join, but do you think that joe walsh was right all along? >> well, obviously the administration has been dishonest on a number of issues and when it comes to obamacare, we're talking about $2 trillion and spending over 600 million in taxes and about $50,000 per head. and we thought it was going to be cheap and affordable. that's what the administration told us. that wasn't true, and i think donald trump said something they agree with, with regards to bill clinton. he just tweeted out, bill clinton said obamacare is crazy and doesn't make sense, thanks, bill, for telling the truth. liz: gianno said bill clinton said wow, obamacare is crazy. the cost of the deductibles going up, coverage gets cut in half and we see president obama saying to new york magazine that essentially, yeah, there are problems with obamacare. "new york times" saying it has to change to survive and looks like the play now because the exchanges are collapsing and the precipice is to get illegal immigrants to float the exchanges, what do you think? >> look, there are major problems, a "gallup poll" showed americans wished obamacare would be repealed. liz: who's going to pay for it if you have illegals in the exchanges? >> part of the problem is we're already actually paying for immigrant regardless of status, their health care. if they go into emergency room under law, we can't deny them service. so this is not the issue of people who are concerned about paying for obamacare should be worried about in terms of inflating the cost. >> you're saying essentially, they would have to buy expensive coverage, insurance that maybe illegals can't afford. >> and not subsidizing this under this program though the obama administration approved it. >> there would be subsidies when you think about administrative costs, who is going to service them and enroll them. think about it. liz: we have a flip-flop alert for viewers. new tape showing the clintons donald trump before, before donald trump was donald trump and the position of illegals years before. take a listen. >> secure our borders with technology, personnel, physical barriers necessary. >> that's why our administration moved aggressively to secure our borders more by hiring a record number of border guards, by deporting twice as many illegal aliens as before. >> we need to incentivize mexico more than before and create the environment we get people out of the shadows and give them some earned right to legalization. >> we are also a nation of laws. it is wrong and ultimately self-defeating for a nation of immigrants to permit the kind of abuse of our immigration laws we have seen in recent years. >> if they've committed transgressions of whatever kind, they should be obviously deported. >> we will try to do more to speed the deportation of illegal aliens arrested for crimes. liz: gianno, five seconds, are you surprised? >> again, bill clinton was right back then, but now since the hispanic community is the largest growing segment, hillary clinton is against it. liz: we're going to go a break. we have more for you. breaking news throughout the show, and round two for the presidential candidates this sunday. you're going to get a preview of what to expect. that's next. so what else is new? how's your mother? umm..she's doing good. she needs more care though. she wants to stay in her house. i don't know even where to start with that. first, let's take a look at your financial plan and see what we can do. ok, so we've got... we'll listen. we'll talk. we'll plan. baird. >> i've invested a lot in this game and the returns i get out are measured in reps, huddles,bright lights, competition and games played. at td ameritrade we believe the best investments are the ones that matter most to you. i just saved thousands on in less than a minute, i found out how much home i can afford. i like how you shop for loans the same way you shop for flights online. i didn't realize that lendingtree you can save money on almost any sort of loan. i consolidated my credit card debt with a personal loan. i found a new credit card with 0% interest for 15 months. you just shop, compare, and save, and it's all free. go to lendingtree right now and start saving. liz: round two for the presidential candidates this sunday. this will be a town hall style where citizens will be asking questions of the candidates. we'll have lou dobbs, trish regan for analysis. next up "making money" with charles payne. charles: donald trump hitting the campaign trail to seize on the momentum from last night's debate. >> mike pence did an incredible job, and i'm getting a lot of credit because that's my first so-called choice that was my first hire, as we would say in las vegas. charles: trump emphasizing the notion that he hires the best people.

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