compared to where it was, the news has lost some of its capacity to excite, but there is still stuff we can get into, isn't there? if we return to our brexitcast tradition of delighting in the nuance and the detail? sure, there's still been stuff happening, and huge news in other parts of the news landscape. of course. but there was, guys, wasn't there, from your end, although he said it in london, i believe, there was something quite familiar, but important from one of the people who will really matter in the next 12 months. yeah, so this is phil hogan. known as big phil. is he?! yes, because he is super tall, about six foot six, very tall. he has other attributes, he is irish, he was the agriculture commissioner in the last commission and now he is the trade commissioner. and he is a big character too, isn't he? pretty forceful. yes, and he's now trade commissioner so will be involved in the trade negotiations, we think with the uk, although it's not exactly clear. he was in america doing an interview with peter mandelson at a conference in london over, like, a facetime, skypey kind of thing. he's in the states to try and smooth over trade tensions between the us and the eu, but yes, he took part in this live debate and took questions, including some questions on brexit. what did we find out — not that we've heard any of this in the last few weeks — about the likelihood of a comprehensive trade deal in place and ratified by the end of the year? let's listen. prime ministerjohnson has, i think unwisely, decided he wants a deadline again, he wants a timeline, putting enormous pressure on the uk system and the eu system in order to see what we have to do to meet his timeline that he has put in the legislation. and it isn't a simple thing ofamending the legislation at the end of the process, because the withdrawal agreement has gone through, article 50 is no more, so the technical people here and the director general tell me it's not a simple business like this of a one—line amendment in the legislation in december and we will extend the time. that isn't possible on this occasion, so we need to wake up to the reality that gamesmanship and brinkmanship will not work on this occasion. so, chris and laura, that is brussels' message to the government this new year. you can have some kind of "flimsy" trade deal from us, but it ain't going to be comprehensive come the end of 2020. it's about the two sides setting up their positions, isn't it? yeah, everybody is spinning like tops, aren't they? and this matters because the prime minister promised in the election that we would definitely have a comprehensive, all singing, all dancing free—trade deal by the end of this year, the december deadline, but it's clear since everybody has been back that actually, what we are heading for now is probably something a bit more phased in, and we were talking last week about a series of priorities and a deal done over time, and i noticed when the prime minister was talking to our colleagues at bbc breakfast this week — and we will hear a bit of that later — he used a phrase like it was "epically unlikely" that it would not be done. there's a little smidgen there. just a little chink. as ever in this experience, what will it be? kind of what people promised but not quite. but it will not have gone without notice in westminster that the eu side keep criticising this timetable, but they also signed up to it, it was their deadline too. that's true, and we are seeing again and again borisjohnson saying, as you say with that tiny little slither, the difference between epically likely and definitely, just that little chink, and we talked last week about how much of a political hit it would be if he had to postpone or delay or whatever, or if they can find some way of effectively saying they've done it, even though there is still lots to do. i'm indulging in my nerdiness today, because there isn't as much aaargh in the news! a house of lords report has looked at... it's the house of lords european union committee, picking up on what we just heard from big phil hogan... let's always call him big phil now. now that spreadsheet phil, the former chancellor, is no longer part of the political conversation the way he was, another nicknamed phil enters the fray. so what are they talking about? not surprising this, we have heard it regularly. the extremely challenging timetable. they point out that if you want to extend, you have to do it by the 1st ofjuly and, if that deadline were to pass, even if both sides were to then conclude that an extension was a good idea, there is no legal mechanism under the withdrawal agreement for allowing that to happen. and then the cost of any extension from the uk's perspective would be subject to negotiation. i think what is also becoming clear is the idea that the uk is talking about the eu as definitely promoting the idea of having to prioritise, not being able to get the full version by the end of the year, but i think the eu also thinks that you are not necessarily going to get... you were talking about this last week, laura, where the government gets one issue sorted, then another issue sorted and then another one sorted so you can put a tick on it. if you have a look at trade relations or if you put services into the mix, or you put security into the mix, and it's not clear that all these things will be debated and decided this year but, if they were, you could see it would increase delay, because where the uk has more of an advantage, for example over the security issue, the uk will not want to sign up to a securities deal separately with the eu when it might want to use that as a bargaining chip to get something over financial services, for example. so i think it's going to be very difficult in practical terms for either side to tick off a whole section of this comprehensive trade deal when everybody has different priorities and different bargaining chips, and so i think, at the moment, those waters are still quite murky as to how this could work out in practice. i'm so happy you said that, katya because it's given me my excuse to say parallelism versus sequentialism, which was one of the original brexit debates about whether you could do everything at the same time or whether you could go step—by—step. adam, have you found any clues this week on the eu's approach, possibly lurking in some kind of formal format that could be put into a binder? exactly, it's been like christmas come late for me, because what has happened is that, basically, the eu negotiating team have set up brexit university for the diplomats working for the 27 member states, lots of whom are new and are working on this for the first time and were not here for the first phase, so it is almost like professor barnier of hogwarts going through all the stuff in the political declaration that will make up the future relationship. sadly, barnier isn't doing the slides and presentations and, if he was, he wouldn't be wearing a cap and gown like professor mcgonagall, which is a shame, but we can dream! you'd be visiting lecturer fleming, nose pressed up against the glass! it's almost like i am trying to line up a lucrative academic career after this! no, i'm not. walk us through. the great thing is these slides have been published online so everybody can see them, and also to keep member states in line, and if you look at them there are lots of interesting clues and pointers about things that will become very important in the future. so the first thing is that they all start with this page about what the purpose of the seminars is, and it's to get everybody in the same place when it comes to the mandate, so the detailed instructions barnier will be given for negotiating the future relationship. why is it so important for the commission to get the member states in place? they are the servants of the member states and you need to maintain the unity. exactly, they're worried about spain saying, i want to put fishing ahead, and luxembourg saying financial services. that is why, on page three of every single slide pack, you get the words "no surprises" underlined, and that is because they want to stick faithfully to the political declaration, and you remember that declaration setting out the shape of the future relationship? everybody said it wasn't worth the paper it was written on, it's just a sketch? but the eu is taking it as gospel and they are faithfully cutting and pasting the political declaration and putting it into their mandate for the rounds. can i ask a question? shall we talk for a bit about the labour leadership? yes. to put it gently, there is a lot of soul—searching going on amongst labour mps, privately and publicly, about what on earth went wrong and where they go next and the extent to which it was the leader or was it brexit and the rest, and what we have now, live and running, is the discussion about labour's future, and therefore an appointment with the bbc's political editor from each of the wannabes to be scrutinised and work out where they stand and where they want to take the labour party. i can't let the use of the term "fisher people" go past, because i had not yet realised you were supposed to say that. from a look on google, i gather it has been a big discussion. i think, in canada, justin trudeau now talks officially about fisher people rather than fishermen. orfishers. that sounds a bit weird. anyway, let's move on. i didn't ask sir keir starmer today about whether he would use the term fisher people and, if he is lucky enough to become labour leader, if he would use it. a big oversight. over the next few weeks, we will be talking to the currently five candidates who are vying to be labour's next leader. today, i sat down with sir keir starmer, who is in a funny position, because he is the mps' favourite, not very helpful for the labour party membership, and he doesn't want to be continuity corbyn. he wants to show he is different tojeremy corbyn, but he is resolute that he doesn't want to junk the record or upset all the people who feel passionately that jeremy corbyn was on the right track, and brexitcasters know very well, and sir keir is one himself, so if he isn't too busy we're delighted he's still watching — let's not mention the quiz — he was one of the architects of the brexit policy which kind of fell flat in the election, because they didn't please either side. let's listen to what he said earlier. you were in the room and, on two big issues for the labour party, there were lots of them, but on two big issues, the brexit plan, you were in charge of that, and anti—semitism, racism against jewish people, which the party didn't take seriously enough. you say that now, but you were in the room, at the top table. if you really have what it takes to be the leader, ought you not to have spoken out more strongly at the time on either of those? on brexit, let's be clear about what the labour party was doing. we were determined to try and stop the damage that we thought a theresa may or borisjohnson deal would do. but, in terms of your own plan, you were trying to have it both ways and it failed. we were trying to bring together both sides, whether they voted leave or remain, but i think the idea that brexit was the only issue in this election is wrong, or even that, in our heartlands, it was the determining factor, because actually, if you look at what has happened in our heartlands, we have been losing votes there for a long time. the point isn't necessarily about any of the individual policies. you were part of the top team that has just taken labour to another historic defeat, so how can you be the person to turn the page? because we need to restore that trust and understand what has happened. i didn't meet anybody on the election trail who said, everything is fine, i don't want anything to change. people were crying out for change, theyjust didn't believe our party was the party that could deliver that. i felt he was in an awkward spot, because he was trying very hard not to trash the recent record, and some other candidates are being much more plain—spoken about what went wrong, but also he doesn't want to... he is trying to call time on the corbyn era... but he was part of it. very difficult, but i think, for a lot of members, he was the person... who remembers the conference where he made the speech the first time saving remain should be on the ballot paper for a second referendum? there is a lot of affection from a certain part of the membership for pushing the policy towards a second referendum, although it was unsuccessful in the election. it's tricky from his perspective, when you have been around the top table, although so have plenty of his rivals, and you can't run that far away from the guy you have just been serving, but you've got to define yourself properly or distinctly, and the danger is, and we saw this from three of the wannabes beaten by corbyn in 2015, you caveat and triangulate yourself almost out of existence to the point where you're not saying anything. i think that is a risk for keir starmer, not least because he was the one who is way ahead with mps, and he is sort of the labour westminster establishment, but not the party's hq in london's victoria, nor necessarily the members' favourite, and he sort of looks like the front runner, but then rebecca long—bailey will get the unite union endorsement, it's almost certain she has the momentum endorsement, the powerful campaigning group, although they only put her name on the ballot paper when asking their members who to pick, so there's some unevenness. i think the race is probably more open than people may think. when you have had for the last four years, five years, the time jeremy corbyn has been around as leader, this long—running theme — and it's a crude description but it isn't far from the reality — that there was a battle between the parliamentary party at westminster being of one view, broadly a lot of scepticism towards him, and the membership twice endorsing him with mega majorities, being, from sir keir's perspective, on what could be the wrong side of that same dynamic — loved by westminster but do the membership like him or not? it's tricky. very well plugged in in brussels, of course, because he was beetling backwards and forwards. i don't know if they would have a view in the eu brussels establishment of who they'd like to see in the opposition. think of that linkage there was in the first round of brexit. barnier saw all of these opposition politicians, keir starmer always said he was confident with his eu contacts he could get a labour deal done. i think it is too far off their radar. everyone keeps referring to the stonking majority that borisjohnson has, considering how the stonkingness of the stonk, there is not much that the opposition can say, now, when it comes to trade negotiations. so, they are much more interested in looking at the manoeuvrings around boris johnson and who is going to be beetling backwards and forwards on the trade deal. so, the fact that david frost is going to be his envoy in these talks once again, is of real interest to brussels. and at the time, in the divorce deals, they thought he was a mouthpiece for borisjohnson, rather than someone able to kind of sit here and make decisions on his own. this was obviously refuted by downing street. and i know i sound like a michel barnier obsessive... never! there is an interesting little discussion going on about who is his opposite number. in the eu's eyes it can't be david frost because david frost is an adviser to the prime minister. 0k, michel barnier is effectively a civil servant in this case, because he's not a politician, but they think his opposite number should be a politician. what happens if the uk doesn't buy that and doesn't put up a steve barclay or a dominic raab or a david davis figure, where does that leave barnier? somebody told me this week that the person doing the next phase in the trade deal might be one mr m gove. i heard he wasn't going to do that. somebody in the cabinet this week told me that he was. because just as the cdl, chancellor of the duchy of lancaster, in other words a very important person, apparently so i was told that the negotiation to take britain into the eu, that the current cdl, michael gove, might do the negotiations to take us out of the eu. i stress, that is ministerial chitter—chatter rather than anything official. but interesting nonetheless. there would be some historical symmetry to it. never mind the stonkometer, or whatever it was, katya, to describe the size of borisjohnson‘s majority, shall we talk about the bongs? the bong—ometre! and the bong for big ben brexit. bung a bob for big ben brexit bongs. bung a bob for the big ben brexit bungs. i don't think anyone has been able to get through that alliteration. even borisjohnson fluffed it. shall we do it together? bung a bob... bung a bob for the big ben brexit bong. see? this is painful! there is the prime minister. why don't theyjust play this on midnight? so it's basically not happening? let's hear the prime minister. it would cost £500,000, because... but we're working up a plan so that people can bung a bob for a bong, because there are some people who want to... bung a...? i haven't quite worked out. i love the fact that you're developing policy live on television. because as everybody knows, big ben is being refurbished, they seem to have taken the clapper away. so, we need to restore the clapper in order to bong big ben on brexit night. now, it turns out by my maths that it is £16 grand per bong, if it's half a million quid, and there's ii bongs, which is the time it will be on 31st in the evening when the uk leave the european union. but... but the appeal for a big ben brexit bong has gone pete tong. yes, well, it has reached... that's very good! it's terrible! it is over £100 grand now, the people chipping in to make the big ben bong. to make the bong. to make the bong bong. but the government has since said, well, we... they have gone a little cool from where boris johnson was on television the other day and crucially the house of commons authorities have said, it might be one hell of a mighty faff to make the bongs bong, but they are not sure there really is a mechanism for what is a public piece of building, bong... history. let's hear the leader of the... the people will chip in to do it. the leader of the commons jacob rees—mogg, this afternoon, involved in delivering some of the disappointing news. it seems to me with regard to bunging a bob for big ben bongs, one should not look gift horses in the mouth and if people wish to pay for things, i think that should be considered as part of their public spiritedness rather than feeling that everything should always fall on the hard—pressed taxpayer. so the taxpayer won't pay, those people who've been involved in crowdfunding to try to get the cash together might not be able to pay, so it may be that those who want to celebrate with a big ben bong have been cruelly, cruelly disappointed. but we'll see. all i would say is welcome to 2020. richard tice, the chairman of the brexit party, has said there is a contingency plan, which is, a little like radio 4 at six o'clock at night, somebody once recorded big ben, hopefully, when it used to bong, and they can just play that. i think it actually bonged at new year. i think the kit was in better working order than it now is. we need a campanologist, that's what we need. isn't there an issue, borisjohnson says he wants to heal the nation, isn't there an issue there should be a celebration or a loud proclamation, that in itself is important isn't it? i can't believe you're trying to make a serious issue out of the big ben bongs. no, you're absolutely right, and actually the government is deeply paranoid about getting the tone right, you are totally right. so, if there was a crowdfunding solution to this and people think, marvellous, that is probably why they are not trying to do it themselves, it is definitely tricky and i think that we will probably see about that time the prime minister trying to mark the significance of the occasion, but not wanting to be seen to be crowing about it. but my goodness for a lot of conservatives and a lot of brexiteers, nigel farage is having a big party, that is going to be a temptation, because for a lot of people, it is the end of a very long fight and something to celebrate, just as you suggest for a lot of people it is going to be something that they are going to find really upsetting. putting the emotion that people are going to feel to one side and while accepting the reality that there is a lot still to come in terms of brexit negotiation, equally the factual reality that it is a moment of british history is a huge one. huge, absolutely totally and utterly enormous. but also at 11 o'clock at night. on a friday. obviously we will be broadcasting live to the nation, people turning onto watch graham norton... find you and katya! and we will be on radio 4, ithink, brexitcast, surely, we will be doing something special, won't we? stay tuned! on radio 4. so actually we can say that definitively now. i havejust had an idea to run past tony hall. because it's friday night and it's 11 o'clock and it's normally graham norton, you and katya should be in that red chair. so that you and adam can...? 11.02, adam and i will crank a massive handle. we would have to turn it into a love seat so it is a double chair and then you can whack us over the edge. judi dench on one side, and huthackman on the other, lizzo performing over there. just to be clear, you don't mean let's all sit on the red sofa and have a lovely chat and a giant fishbowl full of wine? you mean sit in the chair for you and adam to boot us out of the way? thanks, now i know how you're rolling. it all becomes clear what kind of change of an era you guys are looking for. talking about people being chucked, somebody who's been chucked, although actually they chucked themselves and it isjust natural and it has departed our stage... guy verhofstadt. just to be clear, that's guy verhofstadt. not "geever" hofstadt, as one brexitcast thought i was saying all these years. i called him guy, once. the european parliament's brexit coordinator is doing this sort of goodbye lap, so he was in london with you guys today seeing steve barclay, the brexit secretary, talking about citizens' rights, and there was a big debate about citizens' rights in the european parliament in strasbourg earlier this week. and guy verhofstadt did a sort of big picture, what does brexit mean, sort of thing. there are problems that we recognise in the european union. when we have brexit, a big country that is leaving the european union, it's difficult to say, oh, fantastic, we work well. no, it's a problem, we have a problem when a big country is leaving the eu. so guy verhofstadt is not going to be in our lives any more, he's going to focus on this conference about the future of europe, where the eu is going to spend two years about reforming the eu, which they do quite regularly. to go back to citizens' rights, which was what he was talking about, something the european parliament has been worried about always during the brexit negotiations, they passed a motion on it this week butjust to be absolutely clear, there is no way they are going to reject the brexit deal, is there, come the 29th of this month? no, guy has published a report from his committee saying we reckon the parliament votes for it, they published the draft motion which we voted on a week on wednesday, two lines saying, we consent to the deal, and the second line, we tell the european council that we have done that. so that is the role of the european parliament coming to an end. and guy verhofstadt, if he's doing less work on brexit, that means he's got more time to spend on his lovely vineyard that he owns in italy which we saw when they did a documentary about him last year, a controversial documentary. because they were boozing while they were discussing brexit? there was a bit of that, taking it a bit too seriously. we also saw him racing his luxury vintage sports car at silverstone with david davis and it broke down. in an early metaphor. metaphors a—go—go! right, time to go go? and we are gong gong. bye. bye— bye. bye everyone. bye. brexitcast from the bbc. good afternoon tea. we have had high pressure and for this weekend, and it has settled things down nicely. lots of sunshine, but it has been culled. a faster start here, and on sunday it is looking similar to patch one at the weekend, a cold and frosty start but for many others, plenty of sunshine and winter will be light. here is a high pressure that has been going on, pushing that low pressure northwards, taking stronger winds and showers with it. it shed ten jf for the stronger winds and showers with it. it shed tenjf for the night because here, as temperatures plummeting across the board. we could see and at risk across northern part that low pressure northwards, taking stronger winds and showers with it. it shed ten jaya for the stronger winds and showers with it. it shed tenjaya for the night because here, as temperatures plummeting across the board. we could see and at risk across northern parts of the uk, and some chalets. could see some chalets clipping the south—east here it will be breathing airfor the clipping the south—east here it will be breathing air for the day, clipping the south—east here it will be breathing airfor the day, more crowded around, and even a few spots of rainfor crowded around, and even a few spots of rain for the northern isles. these mental, from the south—west, slightly less cold. nine or 10 degrees. in a way, but for elsewhere a bit ofa degrees. in a way, but for elsewhere a bit of a chilly afternoon. temperatures of 6 degrees, pretty typicalfor this time of temperatures of 6 degrees, pretty typical for this time of year. high—pressure still with us, or for most of us, and weather fronts and isobars are not too far away from the north, so we will start off with a contrasting temperatures on monday morning. less cold in the north, but more cloud, and colder in south and central areas. it has sunshine south once again, more cloud piling into north and western scotland at heinz and a breeze here too, so less cold generally. some sunshine too for northern ireland and eastern scotland, but the best sunshine further south, where it will be called out in the game. this weather because the north will topple around as we head into tuesday, sitting southwards across the country, but a very wea k southwards across the country, but a very weak feature. it looks like they could be one or two spots of rain across the north of the country, but sky is clear with some sunshine, turning cold again for the north—west of scotland. that weather will move south into england and wales, a band of cloud, may be some spots of drizzle. but wherever you are, it will be chilly. temperatures in single figures. likely try for the rest of the week, high pressure is always nearby, large amounts of cloud, but going to stay on the cold side. this is bbc news. i'm lukwesa burak. the headlines at 3.00pm: contenders in the race to replace jeremy corbyn as labour leader have called for unity as they take part in the first hustings of the contest answering questions from party members in liverpool. businesses warn of price rises , after the chancellor, sajid javid, said there would be no alignment with eu regulations after brexit. heavy rain and thunderstorms douse fires in eastern australia , but bring flooding to some areas. british scientists suggest the number of people already infected by a new virus emerging in china is far greater than official figures suggest. a crack down on alcohol—fuelled holidays in majorca and ibiza as pub