ate the two. the former president is in a unique situation as being the executive and so there could be legal questions about whether him and his executive capacity qualified as an officer the way that any other federal employee, so i think those are two different issues. and then of the former federal employees, mark meadows does have the strongest case, that not to say that he will succeed on his claim but he has the strongest case as chief of staff to the former president, because the chief of staff is involved in everything that a president does. and, so, his arguments is not a frivolous claim and it is interesting to see how that hearing plays out. >> there are 19 people here that are charged. i mean, how -- how do you anticipate, kyle, you've covered so many of these criminal proceedings, and this -- they are nothing like this, the form he president and along with 18 others in this racketeering and broad conspiracy case. how will this play out with 19 defendants. >> where we're at right now is