Reporter an arizona outdoor gun range, end of summer. Family time together. We have to keep that held in. Reporter a 9yearold girl learning how to shoot an automatic uzi by an instructor. All right. Go ahead and give me one shot. All right all right. Full on. Reporter those fateful last words, all right, full auto. He just put the gun on fully auto, and he tells her that his left hand is holding the bottom of the magazine where it should be on somewhere closer to the top of the weapon. She looks very uncomfortable holding the weapon. And when she pulls the trigger, he loses the grip on the bottom of the magazine and gets muzzle rise and winds up getting shot. Reporter the Sheriffs Department says the recoil from the powerful weapon sends the gun out of her control, over her head. 39yearold instructor charles vacca, a member of californias National Guard died later at the hospital. She probably hit the full auto, wasnt expecting the recoil that she got, and was completely surprised by it. Reporter what its like when the shots come out . Describe it. Its going to be like a buzz saw going off in your hands. Reporter bullets and burgers advertises on the highway. Stop in, fire a machine gun, and enjoy a meal. And their rules fitting within arizona law allow children 8 years old and up to shoot the guns. I would want to see a little bit more experience from the girl and see that the girl was little more comfortable handling single shot weapons before giving her a fully automatic weapon. Reporter the Mohave County Sheriffs Office has determined there will be no charges. But other states have decided these accidents could be crimes. In 2008 in massachusetts, a 9yearold boy accidentally shoots himself at a gun show while also firing an uzi. His father records it all on video. But it is the show organizer Edward Fleury charged with involuntary manslaughter. You the jury find the defendant not guilty. Reporter flour which was acquitted. But as a result, the victims home state of connecticut now makes it illegal to give or sell machine guns to anyone under 16. And just last year in new jersey, anthony senate ori shot his neighbors son to death. Now he has been charged with six counts of child endangerment. He rejected a plea deal which included prison time. Oh, it was beautiful. I can hardly wait to try it out. Reporter children and bb guns were once the stuff of christmas tradition. I always had a bb gun as a kid. Reporter but an uzi . Uzi was designed by Israeli Military industries for the idf, Israeli Defense forces. Reporter a gun made for the battlefield in the hands of a child, with deadly consequences. Jean casarez, cnn, new york. Goodness. Now i want to bring in kyle copeland, the founder of the armed citizens project, which says its mission is facilitating the arming of lawabiding citizens. Kyle, should a 9yearold child ever be shooting an uzi . Well, it depends. First of all, if youre talking about a fully automatic uzi like this one was, id say with this 9yearold girl with the amount of training, you know, there was no need for her to be behind that, and there was definitely things that could have been done on all sides to prevent it. With but, you know, it really depends about, you know, kids shooting these firearms. It depends on the instructors and the amount of training they have leading up to it. We saw a situation, a real tragic event unfold when the trainer and the little girl, you know, it just didnt match. So you think there is a situation . You think there are certain circumstances or situations where its okay for a 9yearold to be shooting an uzi . To be shooting an uzi . Well, first of all, were talking a 9yearold girl. The uzi was probably about the worst choice and firearm that she could have been using. The short barrel on it, i personally wouldnt i wouldnt condone taking any 9yearold out and teaching them submachine gun firing, especially when theyre that low proficiency anyway. You said 9yearold girl. Would it matter if it was a boy . Just a 9yearold in general . No, im speaking to the situation. It was a 9yearold girl in the situation. A boy would be the same. Okay. So i want you to explain to whats this weapon is like, and what kind of training you would need to be able to shoot it and to shoot it proficiently, as you say. Sure. Well, here in houston, our training partners with the armed citizen product, were a charity that trains and arms single women, single mothers in high crime neighborhoods with free pump action shotguns. Our first concern is getting folks used to guns theyre actually going to be defending their homes with. What we need to realize with the uzis and the automatic weapons, these arent weapons available to the public. Ive personally never shot a fully automatic firearm. I know a lot of people involved in guns that havent as well. We just need to remember, these are firearms. Like the uzi, are not available to the average citizen. And so there are ranges like here in houston, Boyer Shooting Center does use fully auto weapons. But you have to be with one of their instructors on the range. They go through a training with you. Theyre very hands on. Theyre behind you, making sure that no accidents happen. I think that, you know, when it comes to a parent taking their kid out to shoot a machine gun, youve got your whole life to learn how to shoot a machine gun. You know, its kind of pushing these 9yearolds out there, especially with an uzi, a small compact frame, hard to control. I think there could have been some better Due Diligence on both sides. But you are going to see this tape get worn out most by folks in the Firearm Community and folks at these ranges that are going to use this moving forward. Youre going see a lot of reforms i think within the shooting community as far as ranges that currently have it opened up to youth. How young how young is too young really for children to be handling guns . Would it be okay for a 5yearold to be shoot organize a 6yearold . How young is too young . Sure. Were talking firearms in general. Its really up to the parents discretion. I know people that started at the age of 4 or 5 with the red rider bb gun and moved up from there. Steven savidge makes a bold action, it has a lot of safety mechanisms in it 22 that is specifically made for small children. So one of the things that is big with firearm advocates and people that own firearms, you kill the curiosity in the child before the curiosity kills the child. You let the child know the importance of Firearm Safety and how powerful the gun really is. Thats why with our charity when we train women in high crime neighborhoods, we want them to bring out their family. We want them all to go through the safety training. Well want them all to know the rules of Firearm Safety and also get some range time if theyre willing to and we feel theyre mature enough. You just said in your previous answer that you think that this video will be used to make changes when it comes to rules. I dont know if you mean gun laws. But as you know, its tough to have any changes when it comes to gun rules or gun laws in this country. Why do you think thats going to make a difference . Well, first, im a policy guy. And i see this as not something that is really going to have any change go about through laws. I mean, short of completely removing illegal enterprise in this country, there is not really that is going to be much that is done. It is a state by state issue. Different states have different rules on that. What youre going to see is ranges that have some of these ranges thought the west and arizona and outside of vegas are going to start to tighten what they do. So some of these ranges that now have you can be 8 and up. Im sure youre going to see that change. Im sure youre going see instructors that teach the fully auto. Theyre now going to have it drilled into them 100 be behind the person, ready to stop the barrel as it comes up. And, you know, the these people are going to be its all going to come out in civil litigation. There is going to be punishments from that. And the industry is really going to take know. Kyle coplen, thank you very much. Of my next guest sees this issue differently. Shannon watts is the founder of the moms demand action which mobilizes moms and families to advocate for stronger gun laws. You heard my interview with kyle coplen. What do you think about what he said . I think its outrageous that we would put the onus for gun safety on children as opposed to adults. Study after study shows that curiosity in children is innate. And when theyre left alone. He did say its up to the parent. To figure out if they think that their child is old enough or has the capability of shooting a gun. He did say that. He did. But he said get the curiosity out of the child before it kills him. And what we say is that the onus for safety should only be on adults. So that means we need to safely store firearms. Unloaded, locked, away from children. In this country, we have a real problem with unintentional deaths of children. 2 million children live in homes with unsecured firearms. Two are killed unintentionally every single week. 2 3 of those accidents could be prevented. And thats what were focused on. Do you think that children should ever fire a semiautomatic weapon . Well, this is an automatic weapon. And no, i absolutely dont. A 9yearold has no business firing an uzi. These are not toys. They are not accessories. And shame on adults who think thats a good idea. Its pretty outrageous. Are guns a problem, or do you think its a combination or is it irresponsible owners or parents . Well, you know, as the nra says, guns dont kill people, people kill people. And in this case, there was some bad judgment. And we need to focus on addressing and preventing the next tragedy. And we can do that by starting a national dialogue, a conversation about how do we keep children safe from unintentional shootings. It is the adults responsibility to do that. Well would welcome the nra to join that conversation with us and to talk about how do we truly keep children safe from guns in this country . We are not doing a good job of it when you compare our country to developed nations. And its time for us to start a national conversation. Do you really think the nra will engage you in that conversation . Well, they should. Their members, 74 of nra members support things like background checks. 90 of americans do. They need to come to the middle and stop moving so far in the extremists arena, and really start to have a dialogue and a conversation with the rest of america. Almost nothing in this country really is as polarizing when you deal with when youre talking about gun rights. Are there any common sense rules you think that everyone can start to agree upon . It sort of goes off the last question i asked you about the nra. Do you really think theyll engage you . Do you think there are any common sense rules . One would hope first of all that children should not shoot uzis. I think that is a common sense start. Also, this idea about how do we safely store firearms . You know, only a handful of states in this country hold adults responsible for negligence and keeping their firearms safely away from children. That needs to change. We need to hold adults accountable, and really start this conversation of what is safe storage, and how do we do that . How do we prevent these two children from being shot and killed unintentionally in this country every single week . And thats what i hope that will come out of this horrible tragedy. Shannon watts, thank you. Thanks for joining us here on cnn. Thank you. When we come right back, isis the most successful terrorist organization in history . And how great a price is this country willing to pay to stop them . Plus, all apologies. Why it seems everyone from zara to espn is saying sorry tonight, but is that enough to make things right . Shopping online is as easy as it gets. Wouldnt it be great if hiring plumbers, carpenters and even piano tuners were just as simple . Thanks to angies list, now it is. Start shopping online from a list of toprated providers. Visit angieslist. Com today. Sfx sounds of marching band and crowd cheering sfx sounds of marching band and crowd cheering so, im walking down the street, sfx sounds of marching band and crowd cheering just you know walking, sfx sounds of marching band and crowd cheering and i found myself in the middle of this parade honoring americas troops. 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When folks think about wthey think salmon and energy. But the energy bp produces up here creates Something Else as well jobs all over america. Engineering and innovation jobs. Advanced Safety Systems technology. Shipping and manufacturing. Across the United States, bp supports more than a quarter million jobs. Tuma. Out. Welcome back. As president obama considers expanding the air campaign against isis by striking targets in syria, he gets support today from an unlikely source. Thats Senate Republican leader mitch mcconnell. Normally a fierce critic, says the president is doing the right thing. Im joining by bob baer, and james gilman is professor of history at ucla and author of the arab uprising. What Everyone Needs to know. And Lieutenant General mark hurtling, cnn military analyst and former commanding general. General, you first. Will bombing isis stop them from advancing and give the kurds or iraqis a chance to gain ground . Well, it certainly is affecting their freedom of maneuver and their freedom of movement. It wont stop them completely. But it will certainly blunt them. And i think thats part of the requirement right now to give their opposition, the peshmerga, the iraqi army an opportunity to fight back. Bob, the consensus is that bombing wont make them go away. So what does the u. S. Do to isolate and destroy isis short of ground operations . We need the entire region part of this. What the United States doesnt want to be is find itself in a position where we are bombing the capital of isis and killing them, and it makes them look like an american war. We need the saudis and the emirates. I totally agree the bomb willing blunt them, but its not going to stop them. What we cant afford to do is get into a fullfledged war in syria and iraq. It could be a disaster. James, isis has taken a lot of ground and very quickly, and theyre set to be smart fighters. Can they hold the territory . Absolutely not. Its isis consists of about 8,000 to 10,000 fighters. They have a territory that is approximately the size of belgium. Theyre built on a very Shaky Coalition that consists of former Saddam Hussein military people, tribal leaders and religious zealots that are despised wherever they rule. Its very unlikely theyre going to be able to hold on for much longer. They have not met with significant resistance, which is why theyve been so successful so quickly. Senator rand paul has an oped in the wall street journal that just came out. And he is criticizing the administrations foreign policy. And here is what he said. Our middle eastern policy is unhinged, flailing, about to see who to act against next with little thought to the consequences. This is not a foreign policy. He right . General . Well, i think mr. Paul really doesnt quite understand the implications and the complexities in that part of the world. You move in one direction one day, youre going to have to move in a different direction the other. The number of tribes, the number of religions, the number of sheiks, the number of politics, its very difficult to get a coherent strategy against the entire middle east. I think our Current Administration is doing the best job possible. And i think the action, and ill echo what bob said, when youre culturally and linguistically different than the states that youre operating in which america is when we go into that area you need a whole lot of help from other people. Not only other westerners from europe, but the gulf cooperation conferences. As i said before, you need some moderate islamic imams to start coming into the picture on this and demanding that this organization stop bastardizing the islamic religion. Bob, you care to comment on rand pauls oped . He is wrong. Look, our military wins wars. Theyre not peacekeepers. We cant go in and separate the shia and the sunni. This is really what its all about, a sectarian war. The president didnt create this mess. The Previous Administration did. And putting a lid back on this, im not sure how to do it. I spent my adult life in the middle east, and ive never seen it in a bigger mess. And i see no obvious solutions. And you have to play it day by day there is no strategy to be had, an easy one. You know, james, i heard someone say earlier that isis possibly the most successful terrorist organization in history. They have taken a lot of territory. Theyre growing. They have weaponry, and they also have a lot of money. Where does that money come from . Well, the money comes from a variety of sources. Much of it is generated internally. I mean, the reason why they have taken the territory that they have is that its sparsely populated on the one hand. But on the other hand, this is the oil territory of syria. They get their money through hijacks. They get their money through socalled taxation, which is really a protection racket. Theyre not lacking for funds. Do you expect to see air strikes in syria . First to you, james. Thats a difficult question. I think that probably will happen. But as yogi berra once said, predictions are difficult, particularly about the future. Bob . I think were going to b