million jobs, lower the unemployment rate by 1%, and lower -- raise gdp by 2%. i think the proposal the president made selected the types of programs that independent analysis think have the biggest bang for the buck, but we need to do many things at once. we face three great challenges. first is the sustaining job growth. second, invest in the future, continuing to educate, innovating, and investing in infrastructure, which would also help right now. thirdly, as we discussed in your office, we need to get on a sustainable fiscal path. we need to do all of that, and that includes entitlement spending. >> none of us want to talk about it, but does it not include real, sustainable, economic plan in any trajectory, we have to deal with entitlements. i think the president has alluded to it. i do not think he is on board, but he talks about it. >> what you said is exactly right. we need to look at the whole budget including entitlements. the fast growth is in medicare and medicaid. if the president put out a proposal that brings down the debt relative to gdp over the next 10 years substantially, and if that were enacted, i think that would put us on much more solid footing in terms of sustainability over the next decade. >> thank you, mr. chairman. >> dr. alan krueger, we are talking about a variety of important issues. what would you summarize the economic policy changes but we face? >> fundamentally, we face weak demand. consumption has been growing at a modest pace. we have a lot more capacity to produce than people are willing to buy 10 right now. that slack capacity shows up in unemployment numbers. it shows up in the capacity utilization numbers. so, fundamentally, i think we need to strengthen demand. some of that could come out by people becoming more confident that their jobs are more secure, that they can buy purchases they have put off. some of it could come about by focusing our measures amazing job growth, so people have more income. the diagnosis that i have of the economy the the number one problem has been weak demand. >> i think the witnesses -- thank you for your testimonies and your witnesses -- willingness to serve the nation. i ask all members of the committee to submit questions for the record by close of business on tuesday, september 27, and would request that the witnesses submit your answers to us in a timely manner, so we can move your nominations forward as quickly as possible. this hearing is adjourned. [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2011] [captioning performed by national captioning institute] >> was part of the u.s. constitution is important to you? that is our question in the studentcam competition open to middle and high school students. make a video documentary, entellus the part of the constitution that is important to you and why. he could more than one point of view and video of sees parent -- of c-span programming. there is $50,000 in total prizes, and a grand prize of $5,000. >> on tuesday, north korean prison camp survivors described conditions there during a house foreign affairs subcommittee hearing. u.s. special envoy for north korea, robert king has been meeting with south korean officials try to get an agreement on resuming food aid to the north. this hearing is to the wall hours and 30 minutes. -- two hours and 30 minutes. this is two and a half hours. >> come to order. >> thank you for joining us for this very important hearing. human rights record in the entire world. the democratic peoples republic of korea is known to be the world's most isolateed country as the citizens are prevented from traveling either internally or internatially without express permission. communications with the outside world are also tightly regulated, and attempts by the dictatorship to filter all information accessible bill the north korean people therefore, the testimony to be provided today by our distinguished panel, and in particular our two defector witnesses, is particularly welcomed and appreciated. mrs. kim young soon and mrs. kim hisuk, who survived the north core afternoon prison camps halve traveled from south corridor ya. -- korea. i want to thank suzanne scholte, i've chaired hearings, and she has played a critical part in every one of those hearings in helping us to get the witnesses to tell the true unvarnished story of what is actually happening in north korea. our witnesses will be speaking on behalf o an estimated 150,000 to 200,000 prisoners currently held in north korean labor camps. it's our hope their testimony will help to galvanize the international community to take action to secure the freedom of those who are needlessly suffering and dying under truly horrific conditions. those living in the prison camps are not only -- are not the only ones suffering in north korea. as one of our witnesses, suzanne scholte, will testify in north rea, ery single human right is enshined in the universal decoration of human rights is violated with absolute impunity. north korea is a tier three country, buying and selling women and others as a commodity. northerer to -- north korea was listed as a country of concern for violation of religious freedom. we'll hear about the new potential for communication through and with north korean people, and explore possibilities for peaceful change, given upcoming political events in north korea and changes in other countries in th region. we look forward to discussing this potential to improve the lives of all people living in north core -- north korea. i want to thank you for your being here and thank c-span for taking this information and conveying it to the american people. north korea, because it is so closed, very often evades all scrutiny, so people know about it but don't know very much. your testimony, again, will help to shatter that lackadaisical sense of what americans know and think about north korea. so, thank you again. we'll begin with miss suzanne scholte. and is a leader of several groups focused on protecting human rights in north korea. she was recognized with the walter judd freedom aired and with the seoul peace prize. she has helped rescue hundreds of refugees and facilitated the travel of defectors to speak in the united states. she has participated in numerous congreional hears on north korea, on topics including political prison camps, trafficking of north korean women, religious persecution and north korean refugees in china. i will note that when we held a hearing on trafficked women, some of what they thought were lucky women, who got out of north korea, into china, miss scholte actually brought to this committee, women who -- one woman who went after her daughter, who made her way into china, only to be sold into slavery, and then she and her daughter who went looking to rescue the trafficked woman, were themselves sold into sexual slavery. we'll then hear from miss kim young soon, committee for the democratization of north korea. she was arrested in 1970 and sent to a political prison camp with members of her fily. her parents and el test son died in the camp and her husband and youngest son later died trying to escape north korea. miss kim eventually escaped and has dedicated her life to exposing the truth about the hideous prison camps in north korea, by sharing her story around the globe. she is an outspoken defector, serving as the vice president of the committee for the democracyization of north korea and other human rights advocacy groups. we this will then hear from miss kim hye sook who is a survivor of a political prison camp. she and her famy were impresented by guilt by association because of the grandfather's defection to south korea. she was just 13 years old. miss kim regularly witnessed executions and abuse and endured manual labor, constant hunger, and death of several family members. once released, she fled to children's but was forced to return to north korea by her employer, where she was arrested again. when she escaped, she returned to china but was sold by human traffickers, like other witnesses we have had. she eventually escaped to south korea, a continues to tell her story around the world. earlier this year she published her memoirs in a book entitled "a concentration camp retold in tears." we'll then hear from mr. greg scarlatoiu. the executive director of the committee for human rights in north korea. he was witnessed the fall of communism. he as authored articles on the applicability of the eastern european experience to the north korean context, and a broadcast into forthkorea by radio free korea. i now yield for opening comments. >> thank you very much, mr. chairman, for calling this very important hearing. and i'd like to certainly express our protection to the -- appreciation to the witnesses here who have agreed to testify. each year, each of your stories help us to better understand the extent and magnitude of the human rights abuses of north korea, and your guidance will help to us target our efforts in alleviating some of these terrible injustices. the human rights vibratio north rea are among the worst in the world. under kim jong-il regime, citizens face killings and detention for basic political expression, seemingly organized market activities, unauthorized travel. north korea seems to vie violate the regime's rules themsels bass they can be penalized for the actions not of themselves but of the actions ofheir families, which are certainly unjust. according to some observers the conditions are worsening, due to the presentation for lee myung-k to take over. there was a human rights act in improving the flow of information to north korea. currently this amounts to $2 million annually for human rights and democracy, 2 million for freedom of information programs, and 20 million to assist north korean refugees. i am interested in hearing from the panelists, if you have expertise in that area, about the views on how proposed cuts to our international affairs budget would impact on our ability to adequately continue fund these programs that have been successful in getting inrmation to date. although it's not in the realm of your testimony necessarily, i was very disturbed at the behavior of the north korean leadership in november of 2010 when it attacked south koreas a island of pyongyang with artillery shells, killing several people. this irresponsible behavior of a government really is unwarranted an really needs to have continued watching and scrutinizing as to their behavior. also, their continued adventurism into ballistic missiles and other weapons of war. certainly disturb us. so i certainly look forward to your testimonies and thank you again for your willingness to share them, and i yield back the balance of my time. >> thank you very much. would either of my other colleagu -- i'd like to now then yield the floor for such time as you may consume to ms. scholte. >> just before you start, make a point. we also invited ambassador at large king, who could not be here because he is out of the country. he has - he wanted to be here. said very clearly he would gladly come and testify at a later date and wanted to provide the subcommittee with a closed briefing as well on recent events, including the human rights situation in north korea. bob king, as my colleagues know so well,as the chief of staff for the foreign affairs committee, and very good choice for ambassador, so, we look forward to hearing from him as well. so, miss schte. >> first of all i just want to thank congressman smith for your many years of devotion on the north korean human rights. and it's been a honor to work with your staff for the people of the sahara. another country trying to get freedom through self-determination. i want to give two main pnts at this hearing today. first of all, north korea continues to be one hover the darkest places on earth, yet we fail to focus on the main issue, which is the human rights issues, because we have instead focused on the nuclear issue and that hays had tragic results. second, despite the tragedy, there's hope because of changes in the country, but if we fail to enact the policies that dress human rights conditions and empower those who can bring about cheng, we'll certainly end up just prolonging this regime. while we witnessed people rising up in north africa and the middle east, we wonder why the north koreans, who, arguably the most persecuted people in the world, not rise up. it is precisely because they are the most persecuted in the world. north koreans are the only people in the world that do not enjoy one single human right that is enshrined in the universal declaration of human rights, a document ironically that was adopted in 1948, the same year that kim kim il-sung e to power. when nazi death camps were librated, the international commute vowed never again, never again, would we allow these kinds o atrocities to occur. but the political prison camps in north korea have existed longer than the soviet gulag, longer than the chinese prisons and longer than the nazi death camps. your two detector witnesses today are living proof of the horrors of the camp and the length of their experience, one was in prison in the 1970s, and another was in prisoned for 28 years. we have seen millions of north koreans starved to death, despite billions in economic assistance, and north koreans are not the only ones who surveil from kim jong-il's dictator south. south korean p.o.w.s are still being held and at least 108,308 captives are being held in north koa, including 80,000 abductees from south korea, and hubs of others from 13 countries a recently documented by the committee for humidity rights in north korea. former presidents bill clinton and president bush made human rights a secondary issue in the hope of getting them to give up nuclear amibitions. we see the failure of these efforts has north korea realized it nuclear amibitions and its prolifertion activity continues. kim jong-il may be an evil dictator, but he has brilliantly manipulatedded the good intentions of both america and south korea. my second point. there is hope because things are changing in nth korea. despite kim kim kim jong-il's bt efforts to keep north koreans in the dark, up to 60% of north koreans have access to some form of iormation beyd the ridge anymore. they're learning the source of the misery is not america or south korea as they're brain washed from childhood to believe. the source of their misery is in fact the kim jong-il and his regime. detectors are sending remittances to their families to help demonstrate their pros apart in south korea. north korea has a cell phone system with 500,000 subscribers, dough -- defectors pay brokers in china to contact their families, and they get dvds, flash drives and balloon launches. nor koreans, especially the eleads, are keeping up with south korean soap operas, and watching south korean and western films. it's more important than over to raise the human rights concerns so they know our concerns are for them. for example, it was a brilliant action by the obama administration to include ecial envoy for north korean human rights, ambassador robert king in the delegion that went to north korea to investigate the food situation. it's the human rights in north korea that are causing the starvation. furthermore, north koreans are no long dependent on kim jong-il to survive, and because of farmer markets and the capitalism is saving them. kim jong-il's unprovoked attacks on south korea, as congressman paine mentioned, have awake ended south koreans to the truth, we must not ignore the human righ of north koreans for the false promise of this regime to end its nuclear program. governments, nongovernmental organizations, and individuals, first of all, should make human rights central to all negotiations with or about north korea. second, we should only provide food when relief organizations can stay and monitor it to the point of consumption. otherwise, it will most assuredly be diverted to maintain the regime that is causing the starvation in the first place. third, we need to continue to support radio broadcasting, especially programs like radio free asia and voi of america,; fourth, we need to empower the defector organizations using creative methods to get information into north korea. like fires for a free north korea, and the north korean peoples liberation front. five, we must convince the chinese to end their brutal policy of forced repatriation for north korean refugees which is prolonging the crisis by giving kim jong-il a reason to resist any reforms that would improve e situation in the country so north koreans do not want to risk their lives trying to three. sixth, we should support the 12 north korean defector churches. i've been working to try to connect church here in the united states with these detector churches in south korea. seven, we need to put the elites in the regime on notice they will be held accountable for their crimes against the north korean people. la week a north korean was caught. his mission was to kill the head of the fighters for a free north korea. hock has been doing the balloon launches, sending up information. both park and another m have been argentinaed targeted -- regularly talladega by assays sans. this tells us they're doing the most effective work in 2009, radio korea started broadcasting interviews from inside the country. supporting this flow of informion through radio broadcast, especially by north korean defectors, is the most effective w to reach the people because the internet is only available to the elites in the regime. recently the north korean people's liberation front was formed by former military, including officers, special forces, cyberwarfare specialist propaganda specialists. this is significant because there the only time there was opposition against the regime was from the military who studied in the soviet union and came back wanting reform. they operated against the regime not 198 4. because all north korean males musterve for ten years and the elites are exempt from service, this means the north korean military truly represents the people. we saw the army in romania turn against kim jong-il and a good friend cue chess sky when the people rose up against the dictate tar. right now the elites in power have no incentive to oppose kim jong-il because they're lives are based on the successful transition to lee myung-bak. we have to assure them they will have a stake in the future. because north koreans are citizens under south corear, south korea has an important role to play, and that they should convene a tribunal of respect judges to begin the precution of those in the regime responsible for the political prison camps and other atrocities. there are 23,000 eye witnesses now, and we should start naming the nes of those who are committing these crimes. when north korea finally opens up, i believe we will be even more horrified at the atrocities that the kim regimes committed against the north korean people today that are beyond our imagination. we'll face the same questions the world faced when the allies librated the nazi death camps. what did you know and what did you do to help stop the tragic circumstances? thank you, mr. chairman. >> ms. scholte, thank you for your testimony and your leadership. all those year all these years, and for that very incisesive testimony. we'll now her from miss kim young soon. >> i'm kim young soon. i'm a north korean defector and a survivor of a prison camp. [speaking korean] >> translator: i want to thank the united states congress and related officials of t congress for giving me a chance to speak at this important venue. i want to thank mrs. scholte for her years of friendship and for listening to my story of the political prison camp experience. [speaking korean] [speaking korean] >> translator: t camp where i was is known aro