a system that punishes people for trying to better themselves, but rewards them for dependency, guess what? they get more dependency. and learn that more off welfare or a desire for dignity. and many actually did lack a simple household device that they had never needed before, an alarm clock. no kidding. i mean, people who didn't have to worry about being a the a job on time didn't have an alarm clock. it became sort of inside and untold story in our administration of the essential tool moving people from welfare to work. the insistence of having to work to collect benefits wasn't cruel, what was cruel was to trap people permanently in the pits of a system. caused people to depend on politicians for their nesties which made them bo holden to the politicians who seemingly provided them. it wasn't good for the people on welfare, no, it was good for the politicians who created a dependent class, who were dependent on their being reelected. now, the obama administration wants to go back to the days where welfare checks could be given without the stringent work requirements that have proven to be successful and helping people stand with their own two feet instead of carried with the government. why would anyone propose such a stupid reversal? just remember, it's not about the people, it's about the power that politicians want to have over the people. real strength of a government program is not how many people on it, but how many people are independent enough to not have to need it. [applause] joining me now is the original architect of welfare reform, former health and human services secretary under george w. bush, and former governor tommy thompson now running for the cites senate in his home state and full disclosure, i have endorsed his campaign for a lot of reasons i just shared with you. >> thank you very much, governor. >> mike: i want to begin right at the heart of this issue, you helped create the welfare reform movement by in an area in wisconsin, trying out the things that ended up working. other gorps said we'd like to do that, too. now we're seeing an attempt by the obama administration to make changes. i want you to first speak, what's the heart of what makes welfare reform work? >> the fact that people have to get up in the morning, go to work, and be able to get themselves out of poverty. i always told people you can't get out of poverty by not working and the welfares mothers responded in the state of wisconsin and across the country. always the responsibility for them, they had to have some skin in the game. and we would continue to provide for help for them and assistance, but they had to get up, look for a job and go out and get a job and work. you know, they were happier, they got out of poverty, out of play with what went down and modern welfare said, thank you. and finally people are listening giving me a hand upand not a handout and i appreciate it. >> there was a new proposal, the obama administration says they would let states have a waiver and fulfill the work requirements anymore. i want your reaction to that. >> i am absolutely indig nent about it, as you are, and the other individuals that work so hard because we know it's wrong headed and that unemployment goes down when people are working and that individuals get out of poverty when they work, and this, to me, is just an absolute slap in the face to those people that are on welfare, because they're saying, you know, we just want you to stay there and you're going to be able to then continue in office and hand out things, whenever we feel like it, that's not the american way, and the american way is to be able to get up in the morning, puttin on your boots or whatever it is, your work clothes and contribute to society. that's what makes america, so much better than any other country and president obama and katherine sebelius doesn't understand that when they introduce a rule that is going to emasculate the independents and the opportunity for poor people to get ahead. for me that's wrong headed and i'm repulsed by it. >> you know, governor, you're getting a nice round of applause in our studio and you were the governor that et kraed the movement, but you also were health and human services secretary. i'm wondering, does the hhs secretary have the right, legally, to overturn what is a statutory requirements? is that something that can be waved by the secretary? >> you can only wave it under 1115, which is the social security waiver power, when it's absolutely given to the secretary to do it. under the welfare laws, and the law that was passed and first vetoed by bill clinton and signed and takes credit saying this is one of the greatest accomplishments of his administration, there is no opportunity to waive it and so, the secretary of health and human services, i believe, acting outside of the scope of the authority of the law and i think it's a mistake and i think that somebody is definitely going to bring a lawsuit and somebody else isn't, i will, to be able to say that the secretary of health and human services does not have the authority and responsibility to waive something that's in the statute that doesn't give the secretary absolute discretion to do so. i believe it's ultra virus, outside the scope of her authority. >> mike: and they say it gives states flexibility. you and i know as being governors, that does not do one thing that gives states flexibility. and insisting on a work requirement to continue to get benefits. it's like mafia chief asking for a tribute. that the people have to get benefits back and given protection. i'm repulsed by it. you said you're repulsed by it. what do we do to change it. how do we make americans understand how big a change this would be? >> and ton top of that, governor, we're borrowing money from china, 38 cents out of every dollar, in order to contribute to this program and now, we're saying, you're not going to have to work. stay at home like you used to be able to and nobody really wants that. you know something that nobody, governor, has introduced legislation to go back to the old day of pt because it failed. and now they're trying to stay we're going to circumvent it and you say the mafia chiefs and i say it's the politicians to get sure votes. saying you don't have to work, just vote for me. i think it's wrong ended and i'm repulsed by it and most importantly, we have to elect people. the public office that really believe in the individual and to be able to believe that individuals make a difference and that they can make it on their own. the government does not have to do everything for them. senator thompson, always a pleasure to be with you. i'm delighted to talk to you, nobody knows more about this entire process than you do. thank you for being with us. >> thank you, my friend. [applause] >> well, these are folks who have gone through med school. through internships and private practices, but many doctors say obama care is throwing all of that hard work right in the medical waste bin. we'll talk to a couple of doctors who tell us, why the president's health care law is driving them right out of medicine. that's when we come back. i'd love to hear from you, go to mike huckabee.com for the feedback section, or follow me on twitter. that and more at huckabee.com. [ male announcer ] this is the land of giants. ♪ home of the brave. ♪ it's where fear goes unwelcomed... ♪ and certain men... find a way to rise above. this is the land of giants. ♪ guts. glory. ram. glory. chances are, you're not made of money, so don't overpay for motorcycle insurance. geico, see how much you could save. a living, breathing intelligence teaching data how to do more for business. 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[ tires screech ] it's our most innovative altima ever. nissan. innovation that excites. ♪ >> remember when the rez was trying to sell his plan? he said this a lot of times. and listen, no matter what you've heard. if you like your doctor or health care plan, you can keep it if you've got to doctor that you want, you will be able to keep your doctor. >> if you've got health insurance you like your doctor, you like your plan, you can keep your doctor. you can keep your plan. >> if you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor. >> nobody is talking about taking that away from you. >> oh, really? well, we received a lot of e-mails from our viewers saying their doctors were considering quitting their practice because of obama care. why would they do that? well, we're going to ask. a dermatologist who just sold his practice in arizona. dr. kathy hampton from houston, had to layoff employees and struggle to keep they are clinic open. and a philadelphia cardiologist may have to give up private practice and end up working at a hospital. i want to say thanks to all of you for being here. and you actually posted a sign outside your office, we've got a shot of it here, and it says this, it was a reminder to your patients, if you voted for obama care, be aware that these doors will close before it goes into effect. and that didn't turn out to be an empty promise. you actually said, that's it, i'm done, why? >> it never was an empty promise and i never expected this picture to come back two years later, but here we are. obama care is a threat to the practice of medicine, it's a threat to doctors and these threats have been going on for 20 it years. this is what the people, the public don't understand. there's a sword of damaclese over doctor's heads. the coding of what we have to put in charts changed. it's so complex you can't comply with it. for example, if a pulmonary doctor sees a patients and writes a history down. that's enough. now he has to put down the dates. an if he doesn't have the information in the chart can be fined $11,000 for the claim and the department of the send auditors in who could charge you a percentage of all the charts they evaluate and i could be finding myself enstead being beholden to the government for over 2 million dollars if they want to find things like that to charge me with. >> mike: they were going to hit you with the cost of lek tropic medical system. >> computer system from the minimum of $25,000 for the whole office if i ordered and installed the software right now. you never know if the software is viable two years from now. if the doctor doesn't have a computer system, 50, $70,000, at a certain point in time when you have the threats hanging over your head when your kids are in college. do you want to deal with that. and everything that the department of the's been could go doing especially now and our ability to do it and we went in to medicine to do a job we thought was intrins intrinsically valuable. >> mike: doctor, you decided know the to take medicare or medicaid patients and they reimburse you for the actual cost in providing the care. why don't people understand that? >> they don't know what we're being paid. they don't understand that the benefits are in the nail. you get something from your insurance company or medical statement what the doctor charged and what your insurance paid and your co-pay and left over that everybody writes off. i can charge $100 for a visit, but if wii contract is with medicare or the insurance companies or medicaid. it's $25. i write off 75. >> mike: 75 of-- >> and some plans, typically our average write-off is 40% so we get 60% of what we charge, that's across the board and some plans pay more and some plans pay much less. >> so if the government gets more involved in health care and expand medicaid and that's where the 30 million new patients come from, that means the patients walk in and you lose roughly 40 cents on the dollar for what it's costing. >> and it's worse, i think it's 33 cents on the dollar, but the problem is, there's not enough medicaid providers. i never went on medicaid. and when i you canned opened my practice, they were behind medicaid. they said don't get it on. there's too much paper work. >> i've been on medicare my entire life. 15% of my revenue was medicare. they were threatening cuts and my accountant says you need to close, sell out your practice or stop taking medicare. >> mike: all of this promise that the prose is going to take more of the people. he's not if you quit. doctor, you've a cardiologist in philadelphia apso tough to make it, you and your partners had to reach into your own pockets just to pay your employees last year, that's a shock, i think, to most americans that there's really no money being made in your practice. >> yeah, the cardiologist has been particularly affected by medicare, back in 2010, medicare made devastating cuts to testing done in the office and that's approximately now about 75% of cardiologists are employed by hospitals, private practice is dying out and our reimbursement went down and expenses continue to go up. we still have to maintain fairly large stuff. so the expenses are going up and what you're getting paid is going down and right now we're not getting paid enough to maintain a viable business and it finally got to the breaking point. four physicians have left my practice, one of whom, probably one of the best physicians i've ever worked with was so frustrated he, just quit and doesn't have a job. whether he returns to practice or not remains to be seen. we have people can calling in in tears, their doctor has left and our staff is spenl a lot of time on the phone. >> mike: what's so tragic, you went to college, went to four years medical school, years of residency and established your practice and learn to be good at what you do and at the end of your careers, the policy supposed to be so wonderful is causing you to say, i can't do this anymore and making less than members of congress. i don't think that people understand this. the doctors earn less than members of congress and with all due respect, what congress does isn't nearly as important as these guys doing. and when we come back, what president obama should have done and never got around to. listen to the doctors how to fix health care. that's what we'll do when we come back. stay with us. 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(applause) >> let's talk about the reactions you're getting. doctor, what kind of reaction have you gotten from your patients when you said i'm done. >> i have patients very upset, but they understand, because i've been vocal. i was a resource, putting my mind in full gear when the patient was in front of me, until the government got in the fold and worse and worse and worse. and every time i saw a medicare patient i was at risk $11,000 fine per patient and my patients understand well. anded-- not something that i did light heartedly, i was fearful of being bankrupted by the system e dr. hanson, if you were talking it a young person today would you advise them to go into medicine. >> no, i've already done that many time. i have a nanny, a michigan state grad, smart girl. got a job at nasa a couple of summers and thinking of doing medical school, and i said don't do it. now i regret that because i want the ethical people to be in there, and i told her, you're going to be a government employee, under the system. it's ten years of your life, and 20's are taken away from you, anything real social and so she's biomedical engineering and usc, masters. and i felt bad, in hindsight i should have told her go, because i want people in medicine, but no way that-- >> you want to be-- to do this. >> and i have to tell them they have to love medicine, a calling, like a pastor or you'll never do it for the money or heartache only because you love patients. >> and doctor, there's a likelihood you may have to get out of private practice completely and end up being probably the employee of a hospital. >> right. what are the disadvantages to the patients if you no longer are in private practice, i don't care what the hospital think or you think. how are the patients affect i had by that. >> the patients are affected. it's an access to care issue. the question, does the hospital have the resources to accommodate all of these patients now, who need testing done and the hospitals may not be geared up to handling that many people and the other issue is if you have the test done as an out patient in the hospital, your co-pay is higher as well. and the reimbursements for these same tests that are done in their office, they're done in the hospitals are much, much higher to the hospital so medicare pays a lot more money and they have to pay for the tests at the hospital. both as a taxpayers we're going to pay more and as patients we're going to pay more if this is the shift. >> right. >> let's talk about your prescription, if you fix obama care and write the prescription and granted, maybe we could read it. >> we could do it electronically. >> mike: and doctor, what would your prescription for obama care be. >> i'd make health care expenses tax deductible across the board and get rid of the employer based health care system and make people responsible for their own payment and have medicare savings, medical savings account. have a high deductible plan, progress for catastrophic care, get the government out of this as much as we can. put the patient in control. >> mike: i like that. [applause]. >> mike: e doctor hampton, your prescription if you could write one today. >> one thing i wish someone would do, no one talks about it is the information. and one of my doctors left in may and she went to a big system and some of her patients have not followed her and asked why, i don't want my information out in a big system. she's in university of texas i'm a small clinic, the information stays with me. there's a lot of duplication in medicine. and they got out of the hospital, a record release no one knows the labs. i wanted the patient to somehow in cyberspace have their own folder that they own with their medical information and access it from computers in the office and pull up the cat scans in the hospital. it's not the hospital system, you understand, they get to choose what they wanted and who has access to it because we have so much records that are sometimes inaccurate and you can check on electronic records now, and normal