pictures of him and the first lady dancing with the local people. it was all in traditional costume, all very festive. the question today, is this any way to treat an american elect orate, an angry elect orate to hold a press conferencea, anounce no new changes and leave town the same they that speaker pelosi says that she's staying? what's the message here? that the message of the voter lies in the inbox at the white house? we'll get to it when we get time. we'll get to it when we get back into the country, okay. he had the g-20 meeting, but that was tomorrow. why did he have to leave last friday? a full week ahead of that meeting. and once more, it look like the white house may give into republican demands to extend all of the bush-era tax cuts including for the rich. at least temporarily. how does the president deal with those crosswinds? plus, tempestuest tea parentiers are piping hot to knock off the next crop of republican senators up for re-election in 2012. the big question, can olympia snowe and orrin hatch avoid the fates of some of their republican colleagues? can they outlive the right? saying gay service members can serve openly without significant risk on the battlefield. and defense secretary robert gates said he'd like to see the repeal of don't ask, don't tell by year's end. so there's just one big obstacle to ending don't ask, don't tell, the republican party. and let me finish with some thoughts about why the government neids to take control of its debt just as -- well as our country needs to take control properly. of our borders. is that asking too much that they do the basics? let's start with president obama. over there. mark penn's a democratic strategist. and howard fineman is an msnbc political analyst. we talk a lot about optics whether seems to be the way that people convey. they're tired of listening to the president's words, words, words but how he reacts and responds to the voters last tuesday is important i think to the voters. my surmise they don't like the fact he left town. your thoughts, mark? >> well, i think it's -- it's perfectly typical. after a midterms for a president to focus on some international travel and agenda because he's obviously had to push that off while he worked on the midterms so i think a good thing to take the trip. i think that he needs some time to think about it is how is he really going to answer what the voters said on election day? he hasn't really given them a clear answer yet. it took bill dlont really formulate that answer. don't expect things overnight. maybe today with the tax cut discussion, maybe we've begun to see a real answer. >> howard, we'll get do that in a minute but a great comment by one of those republicans that were in office after the civil war, who said there was political boss, someone like mark hannah. something that we should look like we're doing? i mean, aren't there things that president should appear to be doing, shaking up the cabinet, shaking up the white house staff? doing things that show, i got it, i got the message. you're upset about the economy. i'm going to try to upgrade my effort. i'm going to enhance the effort that i've got here to fix the problems. >> well, i spent a good bit of time over at the white house yesterday. and i got the sense that they're operating on their own schedule. i think that they always operated it that way. i think that's how they ran the presidential campaign. they have a certain inperish ability about them. and by golly he was going to go do it. meanwhile around the white house they've literally taken all of the carpets out and redoing stuff. >> oh that'll make us feel better. >> but i don't sense among the people there who are left behind. >> you see you make my point. >> including david axelrod, no, wait that they're thinking of changing thing in any dramatic way. >> that's my point we have elections for a purpose. >> defensive posture right now. >> look you're a political expert, you're a political expert. it seems to me that election's always accomplish two goals, they decide who runs the country and they send a message. the message the voters this time was we want change. is he going to give it to them, mark pennn. >> i think that if he agrees to extend the tax cuts for everybody, that will be a real sign that, a, he's going to change. but, b, don't be fooled by whatever people are thinking or doing in the white house today. when president clinton made changes, the white house didn't know about it until he was well along in those change with us. >> he went around and pushed people like the brains who got him in there, and carville and begala. texas. george stephanopoulos and brought in the wonderful dick morris. he was doing that pretty quickly, wasn't he? >> people didn't really know that. >> but wasn't he doing that? didn't he hit the panic button before we knew about it. >> look the real event here is going to be, what's going to happen between now and the state of the union, what's going to happen to the tax cuts? the president's going to spend i think the holidays thinking, how is he going to respond? they looked at a truck that's been hitting them and aiming towards the democrats since the scott brown election. it hit. and now they have to swerve. they know they have to swerve. i can't believe they don't know that. >> have to respond in an active way, not just say, yeah, we'll try a little harder. it seems to me that every government that gets rocked like this doesn't change. the show that we're paying attention. the voters eye don't know how many times i have to say this tonight the voters are angry. tay want to see you get it. >> i think that that's right. i can report to you the sense that i have is of them, and they are -- i agree with mark's saying. they're going to take their time. they're going to see what cards the republicans are going to lay on the table. and they're going to -- they're in a defensive posture, where they're going to seed ground on various points until they figure out what to do, and quite frankly, they haven't figured out what the response is going to be yet. they have not figured it out but i do not sense and mark may be right, things are going on in the plane in asia that we don't know about that they're going to make wholesale changes. >> no big chief executive coming in, like no chief of staff coming, no heavyweight. >> we don't know. >> we don't know. >> but they're already -- some of the top people are going to leave in the early spring. i get the sense that they're eager to get back to chicago, some these people, to begin thinking how to run a campaign again. because they don't know what to do with the congress yet. they have no idea. >> in other words, they'd rather not be the incumbent. >> yes. >> rather start all over again. >> exactly. hit the recess button. >> they don't get that deal. >> i know. >> let's fake a look at your report today "we have to deal with the world as it is, axelrod said. the world whether it takes to get this done. there are concern, he added, that congress will continue to kick the can down the road in the future. by passing temporarily extensions for the wealthy time and time again but i don't want to trade away security for the middle class in order to make that point." i read in that what i think that youed in that in your reporting that the white house's basically saying, if we've got to give tax cuts to the rich, to get them for the regular people, we'll do it. >> yes. and i think that -- i think that david axelrod, with whom we had a 90-minute interview late yesterday afternoon, was clearly moving the thing a little farther down the road, and conceding what most people, not most, but a lot of people in town think is obvious. that because of the political situation in the lame-duck congress and because of the procedural situation, the white house has no choice, or doesn't want to take the risk of trying to veto a bill that has the tax cuts for the rich. >> let's take a look at david letterman on the point that i start with tonight. this sense that te president's listening. for everybody to respond like you say to show real change. >> well there's no choice. >> okay, well -- >> that's not a plan. that's a lack of choice. >> the impact that is suggesting moving to the middle. >> right. >> here he is, david letterman last night taking a chop at president in his monologue. let's listen. >> president obama's in india right now, he's over there visiting our jobs. [ laughter ] thank you. >> mark penn, i think about states like pennsylvania, ohio, indian aillinois, wisconsin, they'd all bit back at the president last tuesday. i keep asking myself don't you think that the working guy thinks that that's not really a chuckle? they do think that their jobs have gone overseas because of the u.s. policy. >> that's single toughest job for the president in the next two years. the devastation, politically, of democrats in the midwest and the south is really where this election's going to be. and that's going to be about jobs and how you use trade policy to open markets, in the right way to create jobs, and if you can't make that case and do that right, he cannot get re-elected. >> well it is true, chris that going abroodf broad at this wayt time isn't helping him reverse his image that a lot of people had against him that voting against him this time is that he just doesn't really understand the urgency of this situation. of people who've lost their jobs. >> yeah, he's out there getting another nobel prize summer. >> he's giving another speech of how we have to understand the world and rest of that and it plays into that perception that really influenced a lot of independent voters in this election. because the polls show that a lot of people thought that he didn't have the sense of urgency that they wanted him to have. >> and, basic economic nationalism, you know we watch pat buchanan all of those years and we think that he's a bit of a zealot when he comes out against trade and any kind of trade, where are the voters that right now. >> well, look right now -- >> are they with pat right now. >> the voters are in both directions. they want to make sure that america's not taken advantage in the global economy, but they realize america has to be a piece of it. you see it's a fine line. notice the president took trade, policy, and he pushed it until after the midterms. he thought that would be a more hospitalable time to talk trade, he didn't realize maybe a less hospitable time so he need a comprehensive economic strategy and that means opening markets the right way. >> they sort of pasted the jobs label on this trip. >> yeah. >> once they realized -- >> sell it. >> the poor timing of it. they -- and then suddenly it became a trip all about jobs which if they had a ton of jobs to bring back and crow about a long, long list of them that would be different. >> what we've gotten today it looks like they're changing policy on taxes. a big tax cut for everybody -- or maintaining lower taxes of bush, that'll look like a move to the center. you say that's a positive sign of change. >> absolutely. >> still open to question. change the administration itself. bring in new people in or show the kind of shake-up like clinton did. >> it will take a few months. >> a few months. state of the union. >> yeah. >> thanks, we learned a lot today. mark penn, thank you for joining us. howard fineman. with you on this story. coming up, reigning in the national debt. we've got preliminary recommendations from the two chairman of the president's bipartisan deficit commission. and the pressure groups on both sides of trying to puncture it. but doesn't a tough problem mean tough solutions? we'll talk to the senate budget chairman, kent conrad. and they care enough to get to know you, too. nobody sells more real estate than re/max. visit remax.com today. funny how nature just knows how to make things that are good for you. new v8 v-fusion + tea. one combined serving of vegetables and fruit with the goodness of green tea and powerful antioxidants. refreshingly good. well, here's the latest from alaska, ended a second day of counting write-in ballots from that senate race up there. so far more than 97% of the write-in ballots went to lisa murkowski, nearly 90% of those write-in ballots went unchallenged by joe miller's campaign and only 276 ballots challenged by the miller campaign, were tossed out. that's bad news for the miller campaign, which trails in the write-in ballots by about 11,000 votes. the count's expected to last three more days. we'll be right back. it looks like lisa murkowski's getting re-elected up there. if you live for performance, upgrade to castrol edge advanced synthetic oil. with eight times better wear protection than mobil 1. castrol edge. it's more than just oil. it's liquid engineering. affect wheat output in the u.s., the shipping industry in norway, and the rubber industry in south america? at t. rowe price, we understand the connections of a complex global economy. it's just one reason over 75% of our mutual funds beat their 10-year lipper average. t. rowe price. invest with confidence. request a prospectus or summary prospectus with investment objectives, risks, fees, expenses, and other information to read and consider carefully before investing. welcome back to "hardball." former republican senator alan simpson and former clinton white house chief of staff erskine bowles the two chairman of president obama's bipartisan deficit commission gave pressure groups on all sides a chance to complain yesterday when they released a draft of recommendations to fix the country's fiscal mess. they made recommendations in five big areas -- cut discretionary spending, overhaul the tax code, cut health care costs, cut entitlement spending including an overall of social security. those are big ideas that will run into big opposition that haven't already. democratic senator kent conrad of north dakota is a member of the commission and chairman of the senate budget committee. you know, senator, years and years ago i worked on the senate budget committee and all of this sounds familiar. the minute that you try to cut the debt or the deficit in this case and you have a wide-ranging balanced program, at least the way that i look at it, that hurts everybody, everybody complains. they don't say, hey, you hit the other guy harder than you did me. all that they complain about is their issue. what's going to happen? >> you know, these groups, once again, have revealed what they care about is themselves. they don't apparently care about the country. because we are spending much more than we can afford. we're borrowing 40 cents of every $1 that we spend. clearly that can't continue much longer. and yet, their answer is, do nothing. that cannot be the answer. and what the two chairmen have come forward and said, is look, we've got to get the debt and the deficits under control. we got to reduce the projected shortfall by $4 trillion over the next ten years. and they have proposed a comprehensive program to do it. well, they deserve our support. you know, we can argue about the specifics. hopefully we'll have a chance to improve package, but at the end of the day, we need something of this magnitude to get the country back on track. >> you know, i hear are there 90-year-old people out there complaining about this requirement that you don't get social security until 69 in 2050, in 2050! this is not an extreme proposal. and the fact is if liberals complain i would point to the fact that this extends the coverage of the payroll tax all the way up to $190,000 a year, you will not get benefits up to that level, you'll pay a lot more tax fes you make more money. it seems getting rid of the capital gains preference, for income taxation, boy that will drive business crazy. it just seems balanced to me. does it help that it's balanced or will the liberals complain about liberal programs, the conservatives about business programs? >> you know, i always think it helps if it's balanced. look, herepse the situation, spending is the highest it has been in 60 years as a share of our economy. revenue is the lowest it's been in 60 years as a share of our economy. so obviously, you've got to work both sides of the equation. what the two chairmen came out with was a proposal to do away, one option. they had three options on revenue. one was do away with all of the tax expenditures. that will raise over a trillion dollars. over the next ten years. >> those are what we call loopholes. >> yeah. they dedicate 90% of that to lowering income tax rates. a dramatic reduction in income rates in exchange for doing away with all of the tax preferences, all of the tax loopholes, all of the tax favoritism that's in this system. now you know, i would prefer not to go that far. i would prefer to retain some of the mortgage deductions. some the child care credit. but we do need thorough-going tax reform to put this country on a more competitive basis going forward and to reduce our deficit. and they have combined it with major spending cuts. 75% of this plan is spending cuts. 25% is revenue. and, yet, we see some those groups, howling. well you can't raise any new revenue. >> yeah that's global noise. >> yeah, norquist, the same old song from him. thaul he cares about is a narrow group who finances his efforts. apparently he doesn't care about the country. he just cares about a napero group that finances his efforts, and look, the left has got the same problem. they are so focused just on themselves that they forget about our country. and our country requires us to be bold, and brave and to get something done. >> yeah, well h.l. lincoln once said, never argue with someone's job is convinced. the people watching right now who understand. is this going to be like the base closing commission report, where it comes out with a big proposal -- if they get the 14 votes commission members out of 18. if that goes to the president's desk has he committed to backing this deficit reduction effort? is he committed? >> no, he was not. and you know, that's understandable. he's got to see the product first. this is just the beginning. this is the proposal of the two chairmen. bipartisan. but the commission, itself, has now got to render a judgment. if we can get 14 of 18 members to agree on a proposal and then it advances, if we can't it dies. >> do you think it'll happen in the next congress? or this congress? >> it's very hard for me to see how it would happen in this congress, although that was the plan that senator gregg and i proposed when we proposed this commission some three years ago. but we had, as you recall, one that was enforced by law. we didn't guest a supermajority vote in the senate for that proposal, so the president did the next best thing. he put it in place by executive order, which means that we don't have an assurance of a vote. we have the prospect of getting one but not the assurance. >> yeah, okay, i wish the guys who were defeating could vote for us. their last good act for the count row and leave, but anyway that's the thought. thank you, senator kent conrad of north dakota. thank you for joining us. we're joined now by politico's assistant managing edor gene cummings. your thoughts. you've been covering this like i have for a while, involved in it. do you think any chance this, this country can get serious about reducing its debt? we talk about it. it's up to $14 trillion. it's really going to be all that we do is raise money from the taxpayer to pay interest payments. it's almost reached that point. just to transfer payment now from hard-working people to tea bondholders in china. your thoughts? >> well, i tell you, chris, this might be of -- it's possible that there is an opportunity here and hear me out because i know these things usually collaps