and his repression at home has certainly provided the crisis the ukrainians have provided the inspiration, and the united states can offer the tools where people like this to strike back. many of these best russian agents we've had were in fact volunteers. people were driven to take action even though they were part of the elite. i think right now where we see is going to be a situation where people who have opposed putin may be in their heart, might be more willing to take the bigger risk to step up and do something, because they are loyal to russia, but not to the government. >> that's such an interesting dimension of spy craft. i think a lot of us think of spies this kind of calculating, cold blooded mercenaries of a sort. but what you are saying is that this could be -- some of the best spies have an emotional investment in overturning a particular regime. is that right? >> they've usually been affected by something