0 goldberg. business and economics correspondent for "slate" matthew iglesias. and senior fellow at the budget and policy committees, jared bernstein. thank you all for joining me on this day of days. eugene, it's pretty amazing to me that the house republicans are pinning this or trying to pin this on the democrats. >> yeah. i mean, you know, one wonderses what nancy bell osi really thinks of that. i wish she would speak plainly. you know, john boehner really is in a pickle, because a huge chunk of his caucus doesn't want to pass anything. you know, they don't want to pass a farm bill, they're certainly not want to pass immigration reform. they don't want to do anything, basically. and he does. so what's a solution there? i'm not sure. you know, he could ram through immigration and ram through a form bill, lose his speakership. >> ram through implies taking the lead, which john boehner has proven himself constitutionally tacked it on a bill and forfeited votes as a nod to the i had owe logs, and that is mutiny. >> thank you for bringing that up. i don't think people -- including some of the media reports i'm reading this morning, really understand just how far to the right this bill was. and it's the sutherland amount. this says if through no fault of your job you cannot find a job or training program to get in, then the state can cancel your food stamps. that is for you -- >> and your family. >> and your kids. so you could be a single parent, you could be a disabled person. you could totally want to get a job or to be in a training program, and be kicked off the rolls. here's the thing. why would any state opt into that? this is 100% federal money. because the sutherland amendment pays you a bounty. half the money you save from kicking people and kids off the food stamp rolls, you get to keep. >> but matt -- >> jesse helms in his wildest net, michelle, right, and we talk about what the republicans are trying to do or not do. eric cantor was out there on the floor of the house, pushing forward the sutherland amendment, and then post hoc, saying this isn't about -- >> this shouldn't surprise us. this is the party who spoke contemptuously of people who feel they are entitled to food. you know -- >> correct. >> no -- >> would i add -- i would add the following. i don't think there was any safety net program. maybe unemployment insurance, that actually did a better job in the depths of the great recession, of truly cutting poverty for the lowest income people. and actually, served as a good stimulus for the economy at the same time. >> i mean, and the meme around food stamps has been incredibly divisive. and really false. and i must play the sound from louie gohmert who is really a one-man band in terms of sound bites and outrageous commentary. let us hear what louie gohmert had to say on the floor of the house yesterday. >> standing in line at a grocery store behind people with a food stamp card, and they look in their basket, as one individual said, "i love crab legs," you know the big king crab legs. i love those and then sees the food stamp card pulled out and provided. he is actually helping pay for the king crab legs. when he can't pay for them for himself. >> so everyone on food stamps is apparently buying king crab legs, eugene. >> yeah. >> they're living off the largess of our government. >> king crabs are going to have to be added to the endangered species list, i guess, according to louie gohmert. you know, it's wrong, number one. it's -- it's insulting. it's demeaning. and it's probably the way he thinks. i mean, that probably is happening inside his head. which is -- which is, you know -- >> terrifying fliplace. >> which i guess we should worry about. so what does john boehner do with this mess, if he's got people like this and his more mainstream republicans or what's left of them. nancy pelosi would argue, there are ways to get around that. that -- and she would point to instances where she had to pass legislation with republican support, and she found a way to let democrats who were opposed to it, like legislation continuing to fund the iraq war. she found ways to let democrats opposed to it vote their conscience but not stop the funding. she told them, i don't care what you think, i agree with you, but it's got to get through and this is how we're going to do it. you vote your conscience, we get it through, and everybody is not happy, but we move on. boehner doesn't do that. >> well, i mean, that's the question, right, matt? there's a senate bill that's been approved. and there has to be a farming -- at some point, we have to have a farm bill. so boehner really has -- i think the path of lightness and the path of darkness. he can go down the road paved by the club for growth, issue even more draconian cuts and maybe get the support of the raucous caucus, but what does that mean with reconciliation? is. >> we're going to see this time and time again. this isn't the only legislation that needs to pass this session. and the fact of the matter is, there is no bill that is so extreme for the right wing of his caucus that can pass even the house of representatives. much less with the senate. so, you know, he has to decide. is he going to govern in partnership with democrats, there's a divided government, that's who can get bills passed, or is he going to keep putting us through this charade, first the bill goes right, then sits around anyway, and then we sit around for days, what's going to happen? he's got to learn to count votes. we saw going back to t.a.r.p. he can't get this right the first time, part of your job as a leadership team. and then needs to decide, if people are too extreme -- >> then he's not going to last. >> either way, i don't know how he survives this. but continue. >> i mean, you're going to see this, i think, on immigration. when he obviously is going to -- assuming he wants to govern, he's going to have to work with democrats, but it's going to tear his party in half. you know. and i think there's this kind of persistent myth that eventually the republicans are going to step up. there are certain things -- we have to pass a farm bill, immigration bill. people thought you had to do something to stop the sequester. there kind of i think is no -- there's nothing so destructive that the house republicans won't go there. so they're not going to tolerate him making compromises. especially on something as close to their heart as immigration. he's not going to last. there is going to be a revolt. >> the wheel barrow that john boehner has been pushing around, i don't think any frogs are jumping into it anymore. it's just frogs on the ground, john boehner -- with the wheelbarrow. we have to take a break. when we come back, what goes up must come down. newton's law and news of the red raising interest rates yesterday. the peaks and valleys, next on "now." ♪ [ kitt ] you know what's impressive? 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