0 employees in cincinnati. >> you have lois learner come forward and plead the fifth. >> i think it raises questions. >> we're seeing from this administration an arrogance of power. >> today the president will deliver a major speech on terrorism. >> counterterrorism policy in the post 9/11 era. >> in some cases, i believe we compromised our basic values. >> and the justification for drone strikes. >> america does not take strikes to punish individuals. >> why does president obama make this speech now? >> we must define the nature and scope of this struggle. >> my own view is it's better late than never. >> or else it will define us. >> it has been suggested that we are wacko birds. >> ted speaks for a lot of americans. >> are the american people unhappy with us? of course they're unhappy with us. >> sick and tired of everything. >> one reason, they don't see us accomplishing anything. >> >> this disagreement is over one issue and one issue only. >> the debt limit is so consequential for our country. >> can the united states senate raise our debt limit. >> we finally get a budget, stay up all night and because somebody doesn't want to raise organizations should be used exclusively for the promotion of social welfare, and instead the more lenient, that it may be used primarily for social welfare. also asked the irs about how they reviewed applications filed by certain democratic and republican-leaning 501(c)(4)s. ms. lerner and seven irs colleagues spent six hours being interviewed on a bipartisan basis by subcommittee staff. ms. lerner failed to disclose the internal controversy over the search terms used by the cincinnati office to identify 501(c)(4) groups for further review. ms. lerner also failed to disclose that she was fully aware of these issues as early as june 2011. today the chairman of the house empty on oversight and government reform, darrell issa, released this statement after consulting with counsel. chairman issa has concluded that ms. lerner's fifth amendment assertion is no longer valid. she remains under subpoena. the committee is looking at recalling her for testimony. today house speaker john boehner said this. >> today is a new day. which means that we're sure to get a new story from the white house. on the irs scandal. white house was made aware but last month. yet no one, no one thought they should tell the president. fairly inconceivable to me. we are going to continue to seek answers until we get to the truth. >> last night on fox news, speaker boehner repeated his breathtakingly stupid plea that someone, anyone, go to jail. and he did so, of course, without saying what crime someone would go to jail for. >> as i said last week, i'm not interested in who is going to resign. i'm interested who is going to jail. criminal wrong towing here. doing here. david k. johnson said on my show, there is now an active doj open investigation to what happened. she kind of has to plead the fifth under those circumstances. it would be malpractice by her lawyer not to advise her to plead the fifth if she is being right now as we speak investigated for criminal wrongdoing, even if the consensus seems to be from everyone that knows what was going on. and she is pleading the fifth in a body where the head of it has said someone has to go to jail. >> exactly. >> but the -- it used to be -- alex, that the congress would defer -- as soon as the justice department said we're investigating, they would go, oh, well, you have way better tools than we do. you're also professionals, we're not. you know. we're politicians. and they would get out of the way and let the fbi and the criminal investigation go forward. now darrell issa and boehner are saying, no, no, let us do this. >> and can i also -- can we talk about the convenient use of the constitution by republicans? this is a party that is sort waged war on a broad and some >> and i think what i do think is what has been strange to me is, as you have gone through, if you just read the ig's report, the highest ranking person who was the most responsible is lois lerner, whether you think something wrong was done or not. if there is anyone who is going to fall on their sword to have accountability, it would be lois lerner. instead the two people above her who as far as we know had essentially nothing to do with any of this. and so what strikes me about this whole thing, every day we woman into the office and what should we do on the show tonight. and a lot of times there will be a headline that's really awesome. someone clicked on it. let's do that, that's awesome. and then you read into the story and it's like, oh. it's not awesome. it's not interesting. >> the airs go out of the tires. >> kind of this boring and that is exactly what this story is. it was like the first headline was like, whoa, obama administration targets tea party groups for heightened scrutiny on tax application? i read that and i was like, man. and then -- >> that's why this -- >> but that set the media frame. and they will never release from that frame. there's no amount of information. >> i agree. yes and no. my feeling is that as it comes out -- as the media is forced to cover what is essentially a somewhat boring story of bureaucratic malfeasance or overwhelmedness or bureaucrat incompetencies or just bureaucratic bureaucraticness. it becomes less and less interesting. i'm genuinely curious the degree to which this have the kind of legs -- >> they're bundling this into this giant burrito of impeachment. now you're hearing michele bachmann asking -- constituents ask every weekend why we aren't impeaching this man. inhofe -- they will take this as far as they can go. at the same time, quasi reasoned minds like charles krauthammer saying, hey, guys, memo, to not try and impeach the president. >> here is the "wall street journal" this may float up to the level there is less -- "the wall street journal" saying e-mails and other documents released wednesday suggest the internal revenue service's procedures used to target conservative groups for added scrutiny were developed by lower-level employees. they've got the e-mails, the committees have the e-mails. if they had one that said oh, look, look. here -- here it came from the boss, make sure you do this. >> i mean, we should be really clear here. richard nixon sat in the white house and literally ordered audits of political enemies. and that was a massive abuse of power. and the thing that -- the real fundamental issue here, and i think the fundamental misunderstanding, not just a tax law, is just the notion of what the relationship between the white house and the irs is and the white house and doj in another. focusing on the white house and irs, what has been so strange about this, in the beginning, what does obama know and when did he know it, and now they got to the other side of the issue with the criticism, like the obama administration should have been more involved, should have told the president about the ig report. no, no, no, no. >> did the right thing in not telling him. >> everyone should be hands off on the ig report, because if you start mucking around in the process of an ig report, then you have done something really scandal-worthy. >> the other crazy chant i've been hearing in every hour almost of media coverage has been why isn't someone fired, why isn't someone fired. the president cannot fire anyone at the irs. >> we don't want the president firing anybody. >> he can't. >> the media does not recognize that. they just go, why hasn't he expired the speaker of the house. the same question. >> we should say, it is for good reason. >> right. >> and ezra klein has written a piece about how hard it is to punish people slash fire them. civil servants -- it's a multi hundred-day process. and that's not fast enough for most republicans. i will say, i know stephen colbert funded a super pac. i think you should fund a 501(c)(4). >> exclusively. >> exclusively versus primarily. 501(c)(4). >> yes, america needs it. >> primarily do politics. >> i mean, look, my solution is very simple. enforce the law as written. >> mccain letters. >> that's right. enforce the law as written. and you know, i doubt the media is ever going -- you have hopes the immediate where a is going to get to that stage of this. >> no, i just have hopes that just from a like -- i have to produce a television show every day level, is this interesting, i just -- like, it's not -- i don't think it's that interesting. i mean, i think the actual details of it end up not sustaining the drama that is there. you know, what was the headline was really dramatic. what is -- what are the bullet -- the third through 15th paragraphs are not dramatic. >> page 2. >> alex wagner, chris hayes. alex's show five days a week. >> so they say. >> chris hayes, the 8:00 p.m. guy right here in this very studio. can we reveal that, that there is a trick that goes on that switches it from one to the other? we just did. coming up, president obama in his own words on the future of war. joy reid will join me. and it's ted cruz versus the world. republican senator ted cruz is now attacking republicans. and in the rewrite, the pope rewrites the church's attitude toward atheists. meet the 5-passenger ford c-max hybrid. c-max one. c-max two. that's a super fuel- efficient hybrid for me. and a long range plug-in hybrid for you. now, let's review. introducing the ford c-max hybrid and the ford c-max energi plug-in hybrid. say hi to the c-max hybrids. all stations come over to mithis is for real this time. step seven point two one two. verify and lock. command is locked. five seconds. three, two, one. standing by for capture. the most innovative software on the planet... dragon is captured. is connecting today's leading companies to places beyond it.
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