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The Katie Phang Show

call is not been made on criminal referrals. jurors are said to be considering three options for donald trump. nbc's allie raffa is on capitol hill for us with the details. ali. >> katie, good morning. all eyes this morning are on the january six committee as a twerk comes down to the buyer we know members are meeting this weekend, trying to finalize that lengthy report of their findings and recommendations before this final public meeting on monday, where that report will be presented and more was widely released on wednesday. part of that report, could include the referrals to the justice department for former president trump. as far as his role in the capitol attack. members, we know are still debating whether to recommend charges for insurrection, obstruction of an official proceeding of congress, and conspiracy to defraud the federal government. while all three charges are on the table, three sources very close to the deliberations being considered by this committee says that a final

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The Katie Phang Show

decision has not been made. members have repeatedly cited the ruling by a district judge in the case against john eastman, trump's lawyer, for why they think both of them committed federal crimes in the effort to overturn the results of the 2020 election. trump is not the only one that members may take action against in this public meeting on monday, chairman bennie thomas has said that there could be five or six different types of referrals for other members, other targets, and they could be referrals to the house ethics committee, other possibly the bar association, things for campaign finance violations and the sort. these are all critical decisions that committee members are working on this weekend, before the final meeting on monday. of course, we know that any referrals by this committee do not carry any real legal weight. they are largely symbolic, but

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The Katie Phang Show

making to the rest of the committee in the past week. there's been a very flawed process. they are still talking about it, and they're also talking about things like insurrection as you say. i think this weekend it will come to their determinations and ultimately vote on matter on monday. >> charles, you are a former prosecutor like me. the subcommittee that you go talks about as well as within his reporting, stacked with former prosecutors as well. there's been some discussion, charles, about this crime of insurrection, whether or not it is really easy to prove, whether or not. do you think they should even be a factor at all? by the committee in terms of the burden of proof, in terms of the doj trying to obtain a conviction for any of the referrals? >> i do think it's important to understand that. the committee transferring criminal referral to doj doesn't necessarily mean that the doj has to take up the mantle. it is also important to remember that the doj, as well as the committee itself is going to have access to a

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The Katie Phang Show

i appreciate both of you. happy holidays. up next, we're gonna dig into the potential political ramifications if the 16 committee issues once it referrals. could it backfire on the democrats and give republicans even more incentive for revenge as they get set to take over control of the house? power political panel joins me next. r political panel joins me next tide pods ultra oxi one ups the cleaning power of liquid. can it one up whatever they're doing? for sure.

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The Katie Phang Show

track on who else, other than trump, we all know he is the focus here, but who else might actually have their head on the chopping block in terms of a possible referral by this committee and whether the committee is going to agree on that? >> look, i think both criminal and referral -- one of the things that they are going to take into consideration is the subcommittees recommendations. the subcommittee has recommended a criminal referral against trump. they've also recommended criminal referrals against people like john eastman and other people like mark meadows who were in trump's inner circle at the trump white house. they're also looking at several referrals. they are looking at referrals for the ethics of committee against congress. despondence like ali said. in her segment -- i think you're looking a really wide range of options and it reflects this committee's modus operandi over the past 12 months. they really have been looking at a range of options. it's never just, we make one recommendation and then you're gonna follow that. this committee -- there's a lot of competing

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excluded? >> i think the idea is that this proposal will be comprehensive. it is the legacy part of the committee. they want to basically be the thing that people will look back at and see, this is what this committee has done, this is the evidence and the seriousness of the crime that trump committed, distilled into this one document. but it is also going to be released in tandem with the rest of the evidence. this committee has been a very big on releasing all the transcripts, all of the documents. i think that will also be key, there will be links back to the evidence that is going to be made publicly available. if you look at it is totality, i think the committee will be making all of the evidence available, in a way that actually people can go and pursue. i think that is really important. >> sounds like the three of us are gonna have some interesting christmas reading when it comes out. it was the nice -- but charles, hugo, and katie reading a chapters of the 16 committee report. gentlemen, thank you for starting off our show with this admitting panel.

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political investigations reporter for the guardian hugo lowell. gentlemen, the best way to start the saudi is with you, you go. i'm going to go to you first. give us some insight into the deliberations that are taking place inside the committee as we noted in addition to the crime of insurrection. we know they're also looking at obstruction of congress as well as conspiracy. >> that's right. the obstruction of an official proceeding and conspiracy to defraud, to statutes that this committee has been considering for a while. this has been the culmination of a probe, a month long investigation. we started with liz cheney, vice chair, around this time last year in fact. she believed that there was cause for there to be a violation of the obstruction statute. but over the intervening months, the committee has really accelerated on those two charges. those are the principal recommendations that a special subcommittee made or has been

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The Katie Phang Show

early you heard from ali on the potentially historic weekend for the january six committee. its members meet to make a final decision on criminal referrals for donald trump and others. while no final decision has been made yet, the stakes are incredibly high. if trump is convicted of the crime of insurrection, he would be barred from holding federal office for life. while the doj is not required to consider referrals from congress, it would add to the departments already existing criminal probe into trump's actions related to january 6th. the committee is also considering criminal referrals for some of trump's maga allies in working to overturn the 2020 election. for more on all this, i'm joined this morning by the panel. legal analyst charles coleman.

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The Katie Phang Show

report itself, the work and the mission of the 16 committee, on the flip side of the argument, would a move like these referrals including a criminal referral for donald trump play right into republicans hands? >> you would think, but i think on the flip side of that too, katie, it should be a question of whether not trump is fit to run for office a third time. given that there could be potential criminal referrals here for the actions of january 6th. and the points that we're all just made, the whole point of this committee was to get to the bottom of what happened. it never should have become this political toxic thing that it has become. house republicans now want to investigate the investigation. where does it end? when do we actually get to the bottom of what happened with the incitement, with those that stormed the capitol? we are starting to see some of these indictments come down at a federal level or at the d.c. levels in the different courts from people who tended and

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wealth of information that the access -- as a former prosecutor, you and i both know that there are lots of parts of investigations that the public usually doesn't see. in terms of the amount of information which has been in the public eye. there is a lot more that could change the scale in terms of how easy it would be. that is not an easy charge on its face, but i do think that it is incumbent upon the january six committee to turn those referrals over, make the decision in terms of making the call itself. based off the admission they have, then allow the doj to do what it does and make a decision about a prosecution. >> you go, i boss often referred to as the tip of the spear. you have some breaking news all of the time when it comes to how the committee is operating ones members are thinking. you and i talked about the fact that this committee, i'm not defined in fighting, but they've had a lot of disagreements along the way about what is important and what is not. give us some kind of inside

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