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escalatory steps in the past and will do so likely and they need to be prepared for this to be ugly essentially and the president last week and will continue to explain to the american people how it might impact america, gas prices here and the energy sector and as of course president biden is making the decisions about eastern europe, afghanistan, the different foreign policy consequences and domestic policy consequences from that withdrawal that he defends is hovering over this. >> rick, a lot depends on vladimir putin. in some ways everything depends on putin and "the new york times" piece talks about the manner if putin invades the manner and what that will set in motion. here's the quote from the story.
putin's choice could determine world action. the strategic choices may make a huge difference in how the world reacts. striking the approach that officials think is likely it would cause the violent battle of european territory since nazi surrender in 1945. is that -- talk about that how putin weighs out the question of a full-scale blitzkrieg and calculates to the point of being rational and how does he factor the sanction question in to those calculations about what to do next and how to do it? >> i'm going to keep track of the questions by writing them down. first of all, we have had the
object. >> friend charlie sykes lays out the dangers with quote. what we can know is that putin is fully aware that he faces a divided u.s. and voices on the right are chanting the propaganda. putin can be forgiven if he thinks it's the maga world. and he may be especially emboldens if he believes that trump himself may return to the oval office. joining me now is clint watts. now a distinguished research fellow and the aforementioned charlie sykes from the bulwark and mike mcfaul is back with us. charlie, i guess -- when you watch those maga people, those people on the network that say those things and josh hawley
others have said dark, aggressive, angry. the tone of it, you are a student of putin. been in the room with him on more than one occasion. is that for show when putin is like that or do you hear a tone of genuine agrievement that sets the hair on the back of the neck in a different place than the course of the last few weeks? >> it is not for show. he doesn't need to show anybody anything. he is the dictator of russia. he doesn't have have to worry about voting blocs and generals and all this -- way too much conversation about saving face and off ramps. that is not the political system in russia. putin's been in power for 22 years. so he doesn't listen to anybody. this is not for show and also wasn't -- i want to be clear --
doesn't want to have a summit and negotiate over things. i didn't hear that today. doesn't mean he won't change the view tomorrow but he sounded like a russian leader preparing the country for war. >> the most recent news from the white house and the sanctions but the white house is saying that they are open to the idea of a summit if there's not an out-all invasion beforehand. is that the kind of thing the white house feels like it needs to say and genuinely is but that they recognize that as they look at what's unfolding in ukraine and hear the tone and the substance of what putin is saying that that's a distant dream and saying it because they would be open to it and actually in private acknowledging that's an unlikely prospect? >> it's clear still that the president, president biden feels that vladimir putin made the
nato strategic options and imperatives within the world we live in might be? >> well, first on the analogy, there are some things beginning to the beginning of world war ii and some not. putin is not hitler. i don't think he has the same ambitions and want to be careful about that. >> yeah. >> but there are some very striking parallels of annexation, protecting ethnic russians and germans and the fundamental one. the versailles treaty in 1918 considered unjust by german leaders not just hitler. putin thinks that the post-cold war order is unjust to russia. with respect to your question, i don't know. i think it's a very important one. i think andrea rightly reacted
harder to do business in dollars. >> does putin not believe that the sanctions will be imposed because he thinks -- he doubts the resolve of the u.s. and nato but if the sanctions are imposed he doesn't care? >> both. does he care? things like that. i want you to set that aside for a minute. right? i want you to get in to putin's head. he's not worried about the stock price of the bank next week or the economy tanking over the next years. he is thinking about what will russian history books say about vladimir putin 50 years from now. he wants it to say that they collapsed wrongly and that i was