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for this reason. alabama has a split republican party among populous lines. sessions base is in the church going rural republicans. shelby is the guru of the affluent republicans in birmingham and montgomery and mobile. and his signal to them is to all you birmingham law firms and other people in the republican establishment, sessions is our guy. we need him for nasa in huntsville, the medical center in birmingham and the ship building industry in mobile. >> i love the way you talk, hal. i love this inside stuff, thank you. and robert, as always thank you for your analysis. up next it looks like republican lawmakers are taking a page from the trump play book, attack the investigators. with evidence continuing to pileup, real evidence that may be their only option to save at
and "the washington post" reports that the president has even joked to senators and white house aides he would move to alabama and compete against sessions himself in the primary. what does that mean? for more i'm joined by robert costa, and hal raines. robert, why would a president talk about going down and competing in a primary in a senate nomination when he's already president of the united states just out of spite? >> just a few days ago on the way to that kentucky rally trump was musing to his allies about senator sessions and his reentry to politics later this week saying he shouldn't get involved, he didn't want to mess with his own voters in a state like alabama, but he certainly wasn't going to endorse senator sessions and he made sure senator sessions through different emissaries got that message. >> you're a local down there in
counsel is going to forget that remark. okay, since you've got them, let's see them. so it's not within the normal rules of political combat, congressional procedure, certainly jurisprudence to see the targets confessing in plain sight. >> haven't seen that before. we'll take a break. michael schmidt, thank you for joining us with your breaking news report. we really appreciate that. ned price, thank you for joining us. hal raines is going to stay with us. we'll hear from him later. and as we've been talking, rachel maddow has been making her way over to this studio. she will join us next. i can't believe it. what? that our new house is haunted by casper the friendly ghost? hey jill! hey kurt! movies? i'll get snacks! no, i can't believe how easy it was to save hundreds of dollars on our car insurance with geico. i got snacks! ohhh, i got popcorn, i got caramel corn, i got kettle corn.
request or him needling the press knowing that you would get outraged by it. >> you are one of the loudest critics of china and its human rights abuses. is it okay for him to ask to say that -- >> i don't think it's a real -- i think he did it to get you guys, to provoke you to ask me and others and get outraged by it. >> joining us now is ed mcmullen, former cia operative and former independent presidential candidate. co-founder of stand up, republic, and hal raines is back with us. evan, your reaction to marco rubio today. he thinks it's funny. he was laughing about donald trump asking china to help in his re-election campaign. >> well, first of all, just say it was highly disappointing to see senator rubio answer that question in that way. you know, senator rubio is someone who from his role in the senate, from his position there, has led our in many ways our pro-democracy efforts around the world. he's been a vocal advocate for -- for freedom globally.
that donald trump has decided to subordinate to his own personal and political prerogatives. >> hal raines, "new york times," michael schmidt, doing more great reporting tonight. advancing the story. and then we see the congress then taking sometimes what we've discovered in newspaper reports, advancing that. have you seen this kind of rhythm before unfold in -- in these kind of stories? >> yes. there are echoes of watergate and of the clinton impeachment. first i want to say, though, lawrence, those of us who worked in washington and these previous times know there are certain days when you can feel the grinding of the gears of history. and those gears have now caught the coattail of donald trump. that doesn't mean he can't survive. he's an escape artist. but this is deadly serious. and michael with his great scoop about the second whistle-blower
i don't necessarily think that the who matters so much to these voters as you get out on the campaign trail. certainly matters to us here in washington. i think what gabe is saying makes a great point, that there is, think, a little bit of a downside to the fact that maybe it is 100 people. you want to know that it's one of the people that is a household name so when you come out, the president could easily turn around and say, see, they will look for anyone who is saying. i think it's a valid point. >> i am curious about how long this thing that has legs. it's getting a lot of traction. generally, any day with this administration it's a fast-moving cycle. but i spoke with former "new york times" executive editor hal raines. >> this op-ed i believe is going to serve as a catalytic role in bringing the country more broadly to the grips of what is going on. we have a congress that is paralyzed and a white house that is destabilized and a president who does not believe in the
was gone after yesterday. >> i guess we're doing our favorite hal raines quotes. you used to talk about raising the creative metabolism of an organization. is that correct, sir? >> that's correct. on that point, let me say having had the experience of being scooped by the "new york daily news" on more than one occasion, i have absolute respect for our sister publication. >> trying to stoke a rivalry and you end up in a mutual admiration -- we could use more of this in our lives. the creative metabolism of the trump organization, if you like it, if you believe in it and there were voters who thought it would be good for america, it's the creation of something out of nothing. if you don't like it, if you think it's a con like the students of trump university and others have alleged, what you think is people like michael cohen go running around making promises they can't keep. how do you analyze that in light of what we've learned this week? >> well, it's an interesting
were in no way surprised by what happened when senator shelby went on cnn on sunday. >> it all comes down to alabama, especially during football season. it's a fascinating place where you live, from mobile across the water to the gorgeous town of fair hope on north through talladega, and then birmingham, all the way to huntsville. hal raines, a real pleasure to have your viewpoint on air with us, thank you very much. >> thank you, brian. >> we've hustled steve kornacki, after a telephone call to our decision desk, to the big board. someone comes on stage and says it's not over yet. tell us what you think. >> well, i mean, look, the bottom line is you're seeing all the votes that are being tallied today. they're all counted from today. so you can see, we've been monitoring this spread. it's up north now of 20,000 votes, almost 21,000 votes for jones, the democrat. look, it is obviously a very close race.
>> john, that might be worthwhile or necessary depending on the outcome of the race, if there's any process like we saw senator mcconnell overseeing with senator packwood and politically would be a nightmare for republicans. >> it would. and not going to come to pass unless roy moore wins the race. but it's getting increasingly difficult to see him win the race. one outlier poll showed jones ahead, i think the more realistic democrats think this is competitive, they're in the game. but alabama has shown a penchant for electing theet attical clowns as hal raines, from alabama, put it in op-ed over the weekend. but combine theatricality with the evidence of moral turpitude
listening and very exacting standards. and she's not hal raines. i mean, he was a much tougher hombre, but that's a worry people have. on the other hand, she was bill keller's partner for eight years. >> she saw what worked for bill. i mean -- if she -- she was his partner, and she obviously saw -- >> and also -- >> what worked and what didn't work with "the times." >> also, if you know that about yourself -- i do think one of the problems with hal raines, his deputy also wasn't a people person. you didn't have anybody to be his good cop. and i think i'm not sure yet about jill's own management structure. but she's going to need that good cop person to go out there and do all that massaging because all the people management is the hellish part. >> and when arthur salzburger asked her at a lunch interview,