and video you have to see. police arresting a man for taunting a wild bison. caught on tape. watch this. don t you try it oh, god, no, no, no, oh, no. oh, no. oh, god. oh, god, no with no, i can t watch. that bison was taking no bs from that guy. yellow stone officials warning visitors to stay 25 yards from the bison. authorities say this was the man s third arrest in fact in a woke for causing disturbances while he visited several national parks. we are live in the cnn newsroom i m ana cabrera in new york. so much to talk about. let s get to breaking news. the first lady of the united states melania trump choosing apparently to support the man her husband is insulting on twitter. president trump badmouthing nba superstar lebron james after an interview replayed on cnn. tweets. ana. and boris, a familiar face also spotted boarding air force one earlier someone who used to work in the white house. tell us more about this. reporter: sacrificing appearance from former director of communications hope hicks. she surprised the press by showing up not only in new jersey but then boarding air force one. apparently on her way to this rally in ohio. you recall hicks resigned one day after she testified to congress that she had told white lies for president trump. he she left the administration about a month later. perhaps not that surprising considering we know that president trump has contact with former campaign and administration officials, corey lewandowski. anthony scaramucci. roger stone to make a few. but surprising to see hope hicks relatively out of the blue ana. boris sanchez, you are on top of it. let s play a small part of the interview that president trump was responding to when he insulted the intelligence of both james and cnn anchor my colleague don lemon. the four-time nba most valuable player james making it clear how he feels about the president. watch. he has kind of used sport to kind of divide us. do you think he uses black thmts as a scapegoat. at times. at times. and more often than not i believe he uses anything that s popular to try to negate from people thinking about the positive things they can be doing. here with me now white house reporter kate bennett and senior media correspondent host of reliable sources brian stelter. you cover the first lady day in and day out why do you think she wanted to way weigh in here. this is the first lady who acts and thinks independently and when we think she zigs she channel she wants. thachs the last time there was a public disagreement. again in public between the two involving the reports over what she was watching on tv, watching cnn apparently. thut this latest flap into context. there is no greater mystery in the world than recommends between husband and wife. that s true in all marriages. i m not here to saiko analyze the president s marriage. but anybody looking at this stops for a moment and says the easier thing would have been to ignore the requests for comment today. but i think partly maybe her office wanted to respond because both don lemon and his response to the president and cnn in the public relations statement both used the be best hashtag. be best, the initiative melania has been promoting that includes positive social media use. and combatting bullying. yes. in the cybersphere. maybe that s why she seized on this and decided to speak out. it s astonishing and gets people wondering about the marriage. and all of this comes at a time where the president feels under siege. we have seen this at his rallies where he is engaging in a lot of resentment and grievance politics. there is a new washington pos story out today saying he is channelling inner frustration into a ravenous maw of grievous invektive. he is angry about a number of things including the mueller probe. you have him rage tweeting at night complaining about don lemon and lebron james. and his wife telling him to knock it off. she doesn t speak out often, kate, which is what makes this really poignant. she is perhaps most vocal when she disagrees with her husband. that s an interesting point. this isn t a first lady we hear from a lot. she is pretty quiet, not a big speech give. typically this isn t someone we hear from. i think what brian says is interesting. it s hard to examine the marriage of any couple. but we have watched melania trump try to assert independence and fire wak she has said on the campaign trail i to tell him the tweets will get new trouble. he is a grown up he does his own thing. she has said before i am my own person. i am strong. don t feel sorry for me, et cetera. this might be her way. and i think it is, of fighting not back but sort of expressing an opinion that might not be the reflection exactly of her her husband thinks but it s what she thinks and feels. it s important the first lady is able to do that. and she does it despite the fallout. she is not sitting in her room watching the coverage she moved on. well the president was sitting in his room apparently watching the coverage on cnn last night when the statement we heard from lebron james aired. and i am going to read that part for you. because when i hear this and i read this he writes he says what i ve noticed over the past few months he has used sports to kind of divide us. and that s something that i can t relate to. i mean that s not exactly superthe critical of the president. i don t think the president could look at that tweet and say that statement that s not true, broien. it wasn t the most outspoken criticism of president trump. it was mild when it comes to high-profile athletes critical of the president. it goes both ways. we see the president single out high profile athletes for criticism. almost always african-american athletes. look at the on the l.a. times right now it says trump faces new accusations of racism amp mocking lebron james intelligence. there is that brand of criticism today. saying why is the president both with don lemon and lebron james tarring two african-americans? people can debate that all day. but it s clear again and again that the president goes after athletes. and seems to want the culture war moments. lebron also said in the interview when don said well do you want to sit down with the president? lebron said no i would not. i do not want to sit down next to him. i wouldn t want to talk to him. that is showing how deeply polarized right now. some of the most famous have no interest in an audience with the protective placement. good to have you with us. in a little more than an hour the president will be speaking at the rally in ohio. live pictures from louis center ohio inside a high school gymnasium the president will help rally voters to help elect a republican candidate locked in a tight race in a district the president won by 11 points in 2016. will the appearance here help avoid the gop loss? we will talk about it in the cnn newsroom. and packages. and it s also a story about people. people who rely on us every day to deliver their dreams they re handing us more than mail they re handing us their business and while we make more e-commerce deliveries to homes than anyone else in the country, we never forget. that your business is our business the united states postal service. priority: you tremfya® is fors caadults with moderate to severe plaque psoriasis. i m ready. The latest news and information from around the world with host Ana Cabrera. campaign rally. he is there to rally support for republican congressional candidate troy balderson. you see him on the left abhe was leaving new jersey not long ago. we just brought that to you last hour. the ral wery is last minute. aides telling cnn they are trying to schedule more rallies to boost the president s mood, keep his mind off russia. and his appearance can t hurt. the district he will be in is red through and three. he easily won it in 2016 by 11 points. look at the latest poll. the republican is ahead by one point. certainly not what the gop wants to see. let s talk about what could happen here. what this means in the bigger picture. with sus former the nsc correct for china and. and cnn political analyst and senior editor for the atlantic ron brownants. ron, starting with you and what the president did just before heading to the rally, insulting district. but it is now on the knife s edge. larnlly because of the recoil from president trump among ordinarily republican leaning white collar suburban voters who view his values his morals the way he talks about race as essentially unfebl. the npr marris pole. two thirds of college educated whites said they were embarrassed by president trump. that sentiment is exactly why he has to go there. that s what made it competitive. and david, this reminds me of something are senator kamala harris said at the conference last night she said russia new america s weaknesses citing racism, anti-semitism and sexism as a way to divide americans. the russian know the truths. because check it out. they attacked demographically and geographically. and they re still trying to divide us and conquer. the russians know racism and other forms of hate have always been america s achilles heel. and we need to deal with that weakness. do you think russia is watching, david what happened in the last 24 hours of this feud between the president and lebron james, the first lady getting involved and smiling right now? absolutely. you see there is an old truism in intelligence that a covert action program can t create something. it has to build on the environmental conditions already there. and what we saw in 2016 is the russians exploiting these differences. but we do have a parallel to this, which is the nfl take a knee controversy. and the hashtags on twitter and all of the facebook posts. a lot of this was amplified and promoted by russian bots and trolls. there is no reason to suggestion that this has change. the russians haven t learned up and sent a clear signal about how real the threat is and that it s ongoing he is directly undercutting them. when we are trying to deter an adversary one of the things that s important is that that adversary believe our word and believe when we say there will be consequences there will. and unfortunately vladimir putin is seeing mixed messages from the president and from his cabinet. and similarly, the american people for the reasons that you just talked about, the fact that they are the russians are exploiting these vulnerabilities in our society, what we need to do to make ourselves less vul they were abel is in part build resilience but we can t do that if the american people are getting a mixed message about whether the threat is real. the president has to get onboard board with the program. and we know the u.s. is really vulnerable to attacks, especially when it comes to cyber-attacks. yet we have politico reporting the that the fisher is struggling to retain top cybersecurity talent including the agent tasked with disrupting digital threats from russia and elsewhere, close to 20 have left in the last five years. is there reporting how concerning is that. one of the things we need to get on top of this threat is a coordinated whole of government strategy. and until the white house is really focused on this as a plm, can really unify what s being done in the different agencies we are not going to bring all of the talent across the u.s. government to bear number one. number two, the kind of talent leaving, you know, the fbi, the cybersecurity experts, it s similar to what we have seen in other parts of the government where we atrophy the expertise that we need most to counter the threats of today. and that is absolutely leaving us more and more vulnerable. ron we could learn this week or sometime make in the next week if the president sits down with robert mueller. his lawyers are cautions again the sit-down. but if trump wants to sit down with mueller will he get what he wants? because he is not known for listening to advisers. that s a good question. i m not sure we no he that he really wants to. i think it s in his interest to put out the story that he is anxious to talk to the special counsel but it s only the kind of supercautious lawyers that are preventing him to from doing so. because to the public the fact that the president doesn t want to talk hirntly as it should be you know, eyebrow raising. the idea that the president does not feel comfortable discussing his actions both durng the campaign campaign in office with a special counsel. we have not had the issue litigated. ultimately if it is litigated there were potentially be five republican appointed supreme court justices. interesting to see how it plays out. but injury previous presidents viewed it at untenable. bill clinton sat down with ken starr not for this kind of interview because of the message it sends to the public. it s a striking statement by the statement and indeed by the majority in congress if they allow it to go by allow him to evade this interview without raising any alarms over that. david i ll give you a quick final thought on the potential trump mueller one-on-one. we have been surprised up to this point every time that mueller has dropped an indictment or every time we learn about how far along he is in the investigation. it wouldn t surprise me if gulini is making up this stuff about the president deciding within ten days if he is going to sit down. that s for pr purposes. what s actually happening behind the scenes has stayed close to mueller s vest and he has not given any signals. david preece. laura rosenberger ron brownants stay with me because i want to talk about the democrats strategy to win back washington, the internal battle raging on. the party battling over how far left tos too far left to win over voters. we will talk about that next in the cnn newsroom. gold in a different box. in fact, most patients who saw 90% clearer skin at 28 weeks stayed clearer through 48 weeks. tremfya® works better than humira® at providing clearer skin, and more patients were symptom free with tremfya®. tremfya® may lower your ability to fight infections and may increase your risk of infections. before treatment, your doctor should check you for infections and tuberculosis. tell your doctor if you have an infection or have symptoms such as: fever, sweats, chills, muscle aches or cough. before starting tremfya® tell your doctor if you plan to or have recently received a vaccine. ask your doctor about tremfya®. tremfya®. because you deserve to stay clearer. janssen wants to help you explore cost support options. california billionaire tom styer who has spent millions running ads nationwide urging the impeachment of donald j. trump. why hasn t congress started impeachment proceedings. all the immigration talk now worries mainstream establishment democrats. running a hypothesisle kpoin when we could talk to the american people how corrupt the administration is, i think that that s a productive way to go right now. the fear talking impeachment before the special counsel s investigation is complete could turn off independents and moderates ahead of the midterms and beyond. is there any concern that that fissure between the far left and the center is going to hurt candidates in november, and possibly the presidential contend erps in 2020. i don t think we should be quite so clever about pollsters. and i think the people the political establishment in washington, d.c. should get back to much simpler questions which is are we telling the truth about the most important things in america? are we standing up for the american people? potential 2020 contend erps making their way to net roots, senator elizabeth warren a corey booker and camilla hairs. voting for abdul sadi for governor is the right thing to do. and self-provesed cortez who upset the established democrat in primary stumping for progressives nationwide. we don t believe the way forward for progressives and democrats is to go moderate. we want to see candidates who are bold, visionary and who speak to the people. republicans painting that net roots as mainstream and talking points sent to reporters the republican national committee call it a former early fringed progressive move movement a key force in moving the exactic party further left. do you think the democrat irk party has moved left? or is this a more open tent these days. i do think that it s moving more left. i don t think that progressivism or liberalism is is a farout idea anymore. our thanks though margle marcus and ron brownants is with me now. you have written a lot about this fork in the road that democrats face. do they target mostly white moderate voters? or do they try to energize the groups fired up against trump s agenda and his style. it s a bigger problem for 2020 than 2018, frankly. i mean in 2018 you can kind of localize. you can pick candidates who fit the local conditions. there are few democrats running if any in the swing districts talking about impeachment. they re talking about rising health care costs and the tax cut and the potential threat to social security and medicare over time above all. in places more safely democratic you are seeing a move to the left. and you know those kind of candidates like we saw in new york with crowelly being defeated but where it comes to a head a 2020 because it s harder to bridge that. i will throw out the caveat whenever a party faces the either or the answer is always to some extent both. if you look at the potential nominees so some are better at exciting the exactic base and others are better at reashurpg the center-right independent voters in places like ohio 12 that formerly were reliably republican but now having second thoughts about whether they fit into the donald trump party where he tweets about lebron james. how would you define the democrat s strategy right now? is there a strategy or do you think they re still struggling a little bit. i think there is a strategy for 2018. and i think they are struggle for 2020. that s not unusual. the presidential primaries really are moments where parties pick direction. if you look at 2016 there are countertheories in the republican party. one was we had to expand the base talk to more of the growing diverse populations of america kind of the autopsy from 2013, jeb bush or marko rubio reflected that. and they lost to donald trump who consolidated blue collar abbe evangel and voters around a theme. democrats face this kmois in 2020. principlely joe biden whose main calling card would be look he is someone who could be acceptable to a lot of ordinarily republican voters who are loosening attachment to the party and maybe available because of trump. he is probably at his age with his record in the 90s during the clinton era he would be less effective than someone like camilla harris or corey booker or elizabeth warren at mobilizing the new marketic constituents, millennials primarily and minority voters if i had to bet today both perspectives will be on the ticket. the question is which is on the top of the ticket. before miguel s piece i mentioned the word impeachment. i want you to listen to something rudy giuliani, the president s personal attorney said this week while stumping for a republican congressional candidate in new hampshire. i have to say this. and i say this in my role not as a lawyer but as a as a concerned citizen and republican, but this election is going to be about impeachment or no impeachment. so, ron, gulini and republicans clearly want to make the mid-terms all about potential impeachment of the president. well, first it fits into the broader strategy. really as we were talking about with the tweets and everything. there is a trump political strategy for the midterm. it s to try to engine upturn out among the republican base whatever the cost of doing that among other voters whether driving away independents which we see in polls or mobilizing turnout among democrats which you also see in polls. i think the comments from gulini are of a piece with the kind of message and issues that the president is pursuing. don t forget, the border separation they viewed originally as a positive for the november election because they thought their base would rally around it. so all of that is there. look, for democrats i think impeachment is a question several, many steps down the road if you get the house there is a lot of legislative and oversight space between where we are now with a republican congress that essentially is refusing to provide any kind of oversight of the of the administration any kind of hearings, any kind of investigation, and impeachment. i think the first thing any exact would say if running in november if lack we are going to look at what they are doing. we are going to explore what s happening at the epa, explore what s happening at other agencies. i think there is a lot of space between where we are now and the possibility some day down the road depending on what robert mueller says of impeachment. ron brownants. thank you very much. good to have you with us as always. thank you. president trump s letter to kim jong un hand delivered with a smile today to north korean officials. playing the role of diplomatic postman. secretary of state mike pompeo tweeted about his letter delivery. pompeo says north korea will decide its own denuclearization time line and the president is responding here to a letter had received wednesday from north korea s dictator kim jong un. and all of this is happening as a brand-new united nations report accuses north korea s regime of secretly pursuing nuclear programs in violation of international sanctions. this is an independent report, independent experts who conducted it. the national rifle association may be facing some major financial trouble. in fact in a court filing the nra says it could soon be quote unable to exist, end quote. we will show you why ahead in the cnn newsroom. with neulasta onpro? strong chemo can put you at risk of serious infection. in a key study neulasta reduced the risk of infection from 17% to 1%, a 94% decrease. neulasta onpro is designed to deliver neulasta the day after chemo and is used by most patients today. neulasta is for certain cancer patients receiving strong chemotherapy. do not take neulasta if you re allergic to it or neupogen (filgrastim). an incomplete dose could increase infection risk. ruptured spleen, sometimes fatal as well as serious lung problems allergic reactions, kidney injuries and capillary leak syndrome have occurred. report abdominal or shoulder tip pain, trouble breathing or allergic reactions to your doctor right away. in patients with sickle cell disorders, serious, sometimes fatal crises can occur. the most common side effect is bone and muscle ache. if you d rather be home, ask your doctor about neulasta onpro. pay no more than $25 per dose with copay card. earlier police say some of the dmortss threw rocks and bottles at officers. things appear to be calming down right now. we ll be keeping a close eye on portland bringing you details as we get them. in the meantime, the national rifle association claims it s having serious financial problems. according to a new court filing the nra says it could soon be quote unable to exist. all because of a legal battle here in new york. and cnn s polo sandoval is reporting for us. let s go back to what brought us here. we know the nra and the governor have clarkd on gun control. let me take you back to recently here in may when the new york state financial regulators determined after an extensive investigation that carry guard was being offered illegally. violating state will you. what is carry guard. essentially an insurance program for gun owners that is marketed through the nra. also in may, the nra then filed a lawsuit against governor cuomo here claiming that the state had essentially blacklisted the gun lobby group keeping them from securing banking services and insurance policies. last month the nra amended the claims alleging they are beginning to feel the financial effects, including suffering quote tens of millions of dollars in damages and the court records that we looked through today, the nra also states that it may soon quote be unable to exist as a not for profit group. this week a response from the governor and also from the state of new york here they are moving to have this suit dismissed in entirely saying that this is purely a distraction. and pointing back again to the findings of the initial or the initial investigation by the new york state financial regulators ana to determine the insurance policies offered to nra members were against the law. it is hard to wrap your mind around the idea that the nra is having financial problems. we know how huge the group of supporters are. thank you for bringing details on that. yes. still ahead in the numerous more than two tons of cocaine being smuggled in the narc o submarine. details on the biggest drug bust at sea when we come back. for men. notice that my hips are off the ground. 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(vo) ask your health care provider about tresiba®. covered by most commercial health insurance and medicare part d plans. booking a flight doesn t have to be expensive. just go to priceline. it s the best place to book a flight a few days before my trip and still save up to 40%. just tap and go. for the best savings on flights, go to priceline. with pg&e in the sierras. and i m an arborist since the onset of the drought, more than 129 million trees have died in california. pg&e prunes and removes over a million trees every year to ensure that hazardous trees can t impact power lines. and since the onset of the drought we ve doubled our efforts. i grew up in the forests out in this area and honestly it s heartbreaking to see all these trees dying. what guides me is ensuring that the public is going to be safer and that these forests can be sustained and enjoyed by the community in the future. welcome back. there appears to be no limit to the ingenuity of drug smugglers when it comes to illegal contraband across the border. police in costa ricka found this subin the middle of the ocean after a tip from the u.s. coast guard. what is the mini submarine doing near the coast of. costa ricoh. they are calling it a narc o submarine. that s for good reason. the law enforcement officials found two tons of cocaine inside the submarine after stopping about 80 naughticle miles off the coast. and arrested three columbian nationals. this is one of the biggest busts at sea. the cocaine they say was neatly packed in 2,000 packets weighing 2.2 pounds. one kilo. they were using this vessel because it s difficult to detect by radar. but not impossible. that sounds like a lot of illegal drugs in a single shipment. but it seems that the costa ricka is a new transit point for smuggling. in addition to the two metric tons they got. any also seized 6.5 metric tons in the last ten days alone. listen to this, ana, so far this year they are at nearly 18 metric tons where does this rank in terms of tactics or methods used to smuggle drugs? they do get creative and we have covered many different methods from an organization used to smuggle drugs from the weird to the sophisticated. one that comes to mind is a group of men using a catapult at the arizona border back in 2011 to toss drug packages from the mexican to the american side. as it happened in costa rica, ana, those men were also put behind bars. rafael romo thanks for that reporting. amanda was paralyzed after a skiing accident and now she s made it her mission to help other people walk again with the help of bionic lens. people like nate who was injured in a kayaking accident. my goal has always been to make a full recovery, and i think a lot of people thought that was far-fetched. it was a lot of hard work. i remember when i made this first couple of steps. that s when i knew that making a full recovery was possible. he s living the miracle of what we all want, what we all aspire for, to stand up and to do it on our own. he s doing it. i haven t witnessed it too often in my life time. to learn more about bridging bionics, go to cnn.com and donate to any of this year s cnn heroes at crowd rise.cnn heroes. we re back in a moment. i woke up in memphis and told. (harmonica interrupts) .and told people about geico. (harmonica interrupts) how they could save 15% or more by. (harmonica interrupts) .by just calling or going online to geico.com. (harmonica interrupts) (sighs and chuckles) sorry, are you gonna. (harmonica interrupts) everytime. geico. 15 minutes could save you 15% or more on car insurance. just like that. like everything. the answer is simple. i ll do what i ve always done. dream more, dream faster, and above all. now, i ll dream gig. now more businesses, in more places, can afford to dream gig. comcast, building america s largest gig-speed network. it turns out the catastrophic car fire in california was started by a flat tire. fire officials say a trailer got the flat tire last month and when the tire rim scraped the asphalt it sparked what is now the sixth most destructive wildfire in california s history. the car fire s burned 134,000 acres, an area larger than denver, colorado. this fire is being blamed for six deaths. it is still just 41% contained. a federal judge is ripping the trump administration for suggesting the aclu should be responsible for finding hundreds of parents the government separated from their children. the administration suggested it would help facilitate family communications, but says immigrant advocacy groups, the judge called this unacceptable and says the government is 100% responsible for finding them. he says of the nearly 500 still missing, just 12 or 13 have been located. the judge now wants detailed information on all of the deported parents and plans for reunification by august 10th. that s next friday. another federal judge dealt a blow to the trump administration to end the daca program. the government must fully destroy the program that prevents so-called dreamers from being deported. the judge gave the administration 20 days to appeal and the justice department has indicated it will do so. and this programming note. a new episode of the history of comedy takes a look at the passing of legendary comedians and how their connections with their audiences makes the loss even more significant. here s a preview. when you do something great a little piece of you will always continue to go on. the worst thing about being in the hospital is that they shave you. i mean, they shave everything, you know? and i was just visiting a friend of mine. gary shandling was not afraid to express his frailties and his neurosis and inabilities. all of the ts. he broke the wall with the gary shandling show and with larry sanders he broke that mold and he turned tv on its head twice. i am so uncomfortable. really? so do i. you do? you re so good at it. trust me, i hate myself. much of modern television comedy can be traced back to a lot of the chances gary took. it still doesn t add up for me that he s gone. it doesn t make sense. not having his voice doesn t feel right. even long before i met him he felt like a comedic friend to me. all my journey is is to be authentically who i am. he was a mentor to a lot of people. he almost seemed like he was floating through the world a little bit. like, he was there to help. what i want at my funeral is an actual boxing referee to do a count and at five, just wave it off and say he s not getting up. the reason that gary s death is a crime is not just because i don t get to talk to him anymore, and he wasn t done. the history of comedy airs tomorrow at 10:00 p.m. eastern and pacific here on cnn. i m monica cabrera in new york. i ll be back two hours from now live in the cnn newsroom. smerconish is next followed by the axe files. stay tuned.
In-depth interviews with leading newsmakers, plus discussions with America s preeminent political minds. In-depth interviews with leading newsmakers, plus discussions with America s preeminent political minds. In-depth interviews with leading newsmakers, plus discussions with America s preeminent political minds. haven t read the washington post story, part of that is that donald trump has become enamored of the new talking point from his tv lawyer rudy giuliani that collusion is not a crime so they have gone from no collusion, no collusion, no collusion to collusion isn t a crime and give us more about what s reported about his mood and raging. he privately has been raging about what s happening vrnl he s upset about the news coverage, about why isn t he getting more credit for what he views as the good works he s done and as the post reported on friday on the front page, 4,229 lies in the first six month of the this year alone. the reason he s not getting the favorable news coverage is because the press spends an inordinate amount of time reporting what he says and at the same time fact checking what he says. let me read from the story. this is the washington post. trump has confided to friends and advisers he is worried the mueller probe could destroy the lives of what he calls innocent and decent people, namely donald trump jr. under scrutiny by mueller for his role organizing a june 2016 meeting at 20trump tower with russians promising dirt on hillary clinton. the president does not believe his son purposefully broke the law but is fearful nonetheless that trump jr. may have wandered into legal jeopardy. let me bring in joyce vance and a about that in just a moment. donald trump is now saying whereas his previous denials said this was from the new york times a year ago he told according to the new york times trump said we primarily discussed a program about the adoption of russian children that was active and popular with american families years ago and was since ended by the russian government but it was not campaign and there s no follow-up. that was trump jr. in a statement dictated in part written by his father on air would have taken such a meeting. he said the new york times statement wasn t given to a court meaning there was no legal obligation to be truth informal that statement. however, this morning he still is contradicting that statement. is that a legal problem for donald trump or donald trump. as is often the case during this administration, i find myself studying a tweet by the president like it s a religious text and as i read this taex i can see it capable of more than one interpret decontamination because trump said this was a meeting to get information on an opponent and i do not know about it but when was that lack of knowledge? in fact, the interpretation that is most favorable and i m thinking like a defense attorney here, the one most favorable to donald trump would be if he didn t know about it until yesterday. if that s the case that means he authorized or approved of statements that were false which means that somebody either duped him or maybe he did know. so this tweet is very problematic because it contradicts what s been said before but depending on the timeline interpretation, and it s vague as to when he did not know about it, it could be either a worse problem or a super worse problem. let me put this up for our audience again and again. we don t normally read his tweets any more on this show because it isn t that edifying for the audience to do so but in this case this is a significant statement so i m going to read it. this is what donald trump was up tweeting this morning. from vacation. fake news reporting a complete fabrication we don t need to read that part. i m concerned about the meeting my wonderful son donald had in trump tower. this was meeting to get information on an opponent, totally legal and it went nowhere. i do not know about it. let me bring in david jolly, former republican congressman from florida because what donald trump seems to be doing now is adopting the communications strategy of his television lawyer rudy giuliani because the line from republicans is that collusion is not a crime. so he s gone from no collusion to collusion is not a crime. i wonder how what we call the committee to defend the president reacts to a shift in the president s explanation to i did it but it isn t criminal to the meeting was about getting dirt on hillary clinton. sure, it s the final chapter in the gaslighting of the trump base and the republican party. you will see no reaction from the republican party in this case. joy, look at what happened from the historical and political perspective. the president of the united states says my son met in my building with russian agents who wanted to influence the election. that is a declarative by the president this morning. legally whether or not there was collusion or not if you take a less conservative view, we see a president continuing to become mare careless in his defense and what begins to come on the table is questions of public corruption and honest services. there may be as joyce said a contributi contribution, an inlegal contribution and the final thing i would say, you read a statement, a tweet from the president suggesting the president is concerned about good people getting hurt, that is the last chapter in a criminal conviction, when they ask for empathy, that these are good people who didn t know they were doing wrong. i want to play for the audience jay sekulow, who s another one of donald trump s attorney, a tv attorney on abc s this is week with george stephanopoulos. he s asked why the explanations for this trump tower meeting keep changing and here s what it was a meeting about gathering dirt, what would be the crime theoretically. this is one of the easiest crimes in this entire range of election-related crimes to prove, it s the crime of a u.s. person soliciting or accepting sis answer t assistance from a foreign national and we have foreign nationals connected to the russian government, although the law doesn t make that distinction, it s still a more compelling case so trump has cast himself in the role of a witness against his son, his son-in-law and former campaign manager who he is saying went into a meeting where their goal was to solicit something of value from russians that they could use to assist them in the electi election. there might be other crimes, we ve had the suggestion of bribery or honest services fraud. those crimes could only have taken place after trump was in office so not as early as the trump tower meeting but there is a full range of what i ll characterize as public corruption type claims that we could be looking at as a result of this series of actions. danny, as a defense attorney, how much of a mess is donald trump creating for his legal team this morning? building on what joyce said, of those elements, the violation of the federal election law, perhaps the only one that is arguably hazy would be anything of value. people think of assistance as a bag of cash or something tangible but it s clear under the law that and this has come up in the past, canada wanted to donate pamphlets to aid in an election, that violates the law so it s not a stretch to say data or information or e-mails would be considered anything valuable. it doesn t have to be a big of ill-gotten cash. and something like this, dirt on an opponent would probably fit to some it would absolutely fit the definition of anything of value so with this admission, assuming that information on an opponent equals anything of value satisfying the criminal statute then you could make an argument with just a few sentences donald trump admitted either to a crime by his himself or at minimum by those around him arguably. and david jolly, i m old enough to remember when republicans used to fulminate about president clinton, vice president al gore, when they talked about chinese donors, renting out the lincoln bedroom when they had a sense it was corrupt to deal with a foreign government or entity when it came to elections. what happened to the republican party? it s hypocrisy of historical proportion. we have corruption in plain sight. whether it crosses the line of criminal culpability we will find out but this is a president who still has not released his tax returns. we assume there is exposure to people who could have leverage over him and he could settle that question today but refuses to do so. i think one of the things we re seeing in the escalation of the president s rhetoric is we are entering a window where he s under serious consideration as to whether or not have rosenstein dismissed and mueller dismissed. congress is out for two months, now is the time the president might move. this is a big development. jonathan, david, and danny will join us later in the show. joyce vance, thank you for your time. appreciate you calling in. up next, donald trump goes to lebron s home state but he doesn t even mention his krit schi criticism of the king. details coming up. including nasal congestion, which most pills don t. and all from a gentle mist you can barely feel. flonase sensimist. well, esurance makes it simple and affordable. in fact, drivers who switched from geico to esurance saved an average of $412. that s auto and home insurance for the modern world. esurance. an allstate company. click or call. paying too much for insurance that isn t the right fit? well, esurance makes finding the right coverage easy. in fact, drivers who switched from geico to esurance saved an average of $412. that s auto and home insurance for the modern world. esurance. an allstate company. click or call. your hair is so soft!e company. did you use head and shoulders two in one? i did mom. wanna try it? yes. it intensely moisturizes your hair and scalp and keeps you flake free. manolo? look at my soft hair. i should be in the shot now too. try head and shoulders two in one. anchor don lemon. instead, he trotted out the same old campaign hits attacking congresswoman mackshi congresswoman maxine waters and the news media. why didn t he go after james? perhaps because of the backlash. nba legend bill russell, current nba stars like steph curry, carl anthony towns and bradley beal all voiced their support of james. nba hall of famer and charlotte hornets owner michael jordan who was mentioned in trump s tweet also offered his support. even first lady melania trump issued a tacit rebuck to her husband. her spoke woman saying in part, it looks like lebron james is working to do good things on behalf of our next generation and just as she always has, the first lady encourages everyone to have an open dialogue about issues facing children today. even if he didn t dare repeat in the front of his rally fans, trump s attack on lebron james and other prominent african-americans is another sign he plans to use his familiar slate of dog whistles to try to keep republicans in power. they talk about the elite. the elite. do you ever see the elite? they re not elite. you re the elite. you are the elite. [ cheers and applause ] you re smarter than they are. you make bigger incomes, you ve got everything going. back with me, david jolly, joining now politics editor for theroot.com jason johnson and nationally syndicated columnist connie schultz. donald trump went to ohio because the republican party is worried. there s a race there with a republican who should be well ahead in ohio s 12th congressal district. there s a guy named troy balderson running in that district against a democrat named danny o connor and if you look at the poll, it s neck in neck except it should be like seven points for the republican. what s going on in ohio 12? it looks like danny o connor could win this but it s already a loss for the republicans in that way and they know it. they think they ll make a big statement about this if he preveals, the republican candidate, but they ve lost the argument. which is why he s there. it was interesting that they moved the venue, you know, to a gymnasium which was smaller according to the reports i saw this morning than the original place. they wanted to make sure there were no empty seats because donald trump hates that and i m glad you quickly acknowledged what s going on with the attacks on lebron james because it s racist. he went after a black athlete, again, he went after a black newsman and then he went after maxine waters again and in each case he refers to their intelligence and calls them in different ways calls them stupid and it s important that we acknowledge that, at this point, that that is what the president is doing. what is he saying about his own voters if he thinks it s a tactic that will get his base out? he is appealing to a certain percentage of his base. but i ve decided i m not going to mock trump supporters because this responsibility lays with the president and he is working them up, mobbing them up, he wants them to attack journalists, it s only a matter of time. we saw from the tweet this morning, he wants to endanger the lives of journalists and i hear the criticism from some, now you care, journalists, because you re the target of population and that s a fair critici criticism but when the president is going after journalists he s going after america because specials should be able to count on journalists to hold the president accountable. he s making this so personal and is not listening to his critics in the white house who are telling them you must stop calling journalist the inenemy the people. donald trump tweets a good game but when it comes to who he s willing to vocally attack, he will go after women, he s gone after maxine waters over and over and over again at these rallies, he didn t, actually, though mention lebron james at that rally. let me play a clip in which he went after republicans of a certain kind. listen. how do you get 100% of anything? i you always have somebody, i don t like trump, i don t like our president. he destroyed my career. i only destroyed their career because they said bad things about me and you fight back and they go down the tubes and that s okay. sorry, i wanted to also play donald trump going after congresswoman maxine waters at the same rally. take a listen. okay, never mind. jason, what he didn t do is go after king james in his home state, right because the presidents is a coward. he attacks people he thinks he can get away with only in siafe environments. at net roots there are shirts people are staying that is don t test the waters. he would never say this to maxine waters in person. i m the last person to say there aren t some racist white people who hate lebron james. but at the end of the day the president seldom has the strong go after individuals who can fight back where there may be boos in the crowd so he ll go after lebron james through twitter but he won t run the risk in a crowd because there may be people who boo or people in lebron james jerseys. that s how this president operates, he s a coward and a punk and he doesn t know how to truly confront people. also, he ll go after lebron but not gregg popovich. he ll go after mackshine waxinet not steve kerr. he won t go after eminem. he s afraid of going after white people because that will expose how racist his attacks on black people are. we have that attack of donald trump on maxine waters. let s play that really quick. they re talking about this blue wave. i don t think so. i don t think. so mackshine waxine waters is l. maxine, she s a real beauty. maxi maxine. a seriously low iq person. seriousl seriously. same question, david jolly. donald trump feels quite flee to go after a black woman, esteemed congresswoman by california by name at his rallies and cause his audience to taunt her but he did not have the dourj renew his attacks on lebron james. what do you make about that? donald trump s a weak man with no courage so he would not attack lems in front of a you in ohio but on the issue of race and donald trump s view of race and his manipulation of the social construct, you can draw a direct thread from his comments about the central park five to his comments about maxine waters and it what s disheartening is that today s republican party cheers that on. one of the things we ve learned from donald trump is in politics today, many leaders follow policies. many republicans have been happy to abandon the policies they believed in the past ten years to follow a leader like donald trump. there s no greater contrast to what donald trump had to say last night than to barack obama s 2004 speech where he talked about being one america. not a black or white america, conservative, progressive, but one america. we have gotten so far away from that and as democrats continue to have a family conversation about their message in november in 2020, yes policies are important but bring us somebody that can unite the country and those medium information voters, those independent voters who are suffering from anxiety that is donald trump, they will move to the blue column and we will see that blue wave. and he also attacks women, whether it s maxine waters or other women in politics, at some point does that erode his white female base. i think what s eroding his female white base is the family separation separations. i m seeing in the my reader mail that it was the last straw for a lot of women because it involved children. it was interesting the first lady made clear she would like visit lebron s school. nobody knows a marriage like that two people in it but i m glad i m not in it. we have to pay close attention to language coming out of this white house. he s always hated women. there will always be men who hate women, we ve known that. i ve been a columnist since 2002, i ve always gotten a certain percentage of mail from angry white men. my husband jokes it s my gift, i draw it out but there isn t a single woman in n ameriamerica writes her opinion and gets that hate mail regardless of her party affiliation. some men can t believe we get that real estate. amane. coming up, the political battle over the south is about to get real. oh! ozempic®! 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(vo) ask your healthcare provider if ozempic® is right for you. beto o rourke is making ted cruz squirm. back with me is mayor tomlinson and kaitlin thompson. stacy abrams, incredibly enough, polling within the margin of error but two points ahead of brian kemp. that s a gravis poll. does sta say thtacey abrams hav realistic shot of winning the race? absolutely. all of the democrats are polling ahead of their republican opponents and we have a strong candidate for attorney general in charlie bailey. we have cracked the code on how to win back the south. we re no kansas or oklahoma, we have not been that red for that long, by the way, we just lost the governor s mansion in 2002. thereafter it took a couple years for the senate and house to switch over to republican control so people are out there that remember voting for democrats and remember when democrats were in control of both houses and the governor s mansion but what we ve learned is that democrats can turn out those voters in urban areas, atlanta, columbus. we know how to do that but we ve ignored democrats in south georgia and south georgia is a democratic area. we know from polling dozens and dozens of counties in our black belt that refers to the agrarian area of rich soil, not to color of anyone s skin but dozen and dozens of those counties are democratic counties. we ve given them no love for many, many years, stacy abrams is humping it through those area we ve lost ten hospitals under republican control and so these are folks that understand that government is a partner in their prosperity. staying with you. it is health care helping democratic candidates come back in georgia? expanding medicare has a 73% approval rating in georgia. that holds solid for this area in south georgia that many analysts write off as being the rural red. that suspect true. they want expansion of medicare. also trump s so-called tax cut plan obstruction of justice has a 39% approval rating in georgia and trump himself is floating if you average the polls 40% approval rating in georgia so i think people are painting with too broad a red brush when they try to make georgia sound like a deep red state, it isn t. but people in these areas are looking for prosperity and the opportunity for economic development which you cannot have if you don t have basic financial infrastructure, infrastructure like hospitals, access to health care. and democrats are speaking directly to those issues. republicans, on the other hand, and we have drawn, fortunately, for democrats, a pretty weak slate of republican candidates. kemp has spent millions of dollars and months telling us he doesn t like brown people. well 46% of the active registered voters in georgia are non-whit non-white. let s go to his ads. the scuttlebutt was that the republican party writ large would have preferred to have the other guy but donald trump preferred kemp, kemp won. here s one of his ads about immigration. i m brian kemp. i m so conservative i blow up government spending. i own guns that no one is taking away. my chain saw is ready to rip up some regulations. i got a big truck just in case i need to round up criminal illegals and take them home myself. yup. i just said that. i m brian kemp. if you want a politically incorrect conservative, that s me. kate, is that going to work in a state like georgia that seems to be getting more purple? it works in the primary as you see from the numbers and georgia, president trump only won georgia by 5% so mgeorgia i new to the republican party as far as the changeover from democratic to republican rule but i would caution you that nathan deal is a popular governor and a lot of these southern states, we ve got governors races so republicans won t lay down and let them roll all over them. florida is the most fertile ground. we ll see. we have to distance ourselves from these primaries. everybody knows your base helps you get to the party but the people who didn t vote in either primary matter and how the parties will be defined closer to november. republicans have a high hill to climb right now. just history tells you that we have trouble coming in november. jason johnson, you have been a georgia skeptic as far as the democratic party but which state seems to be the most fertile ground. tennessee, the democrat is ahead of marsha black bern. bred bredesen is going to beat blackburn and bob corker is saying out saying i can t run against this guy, he s too good. second i m moving less out of my cynicism column. i have to mention georgia. look, the republican governors association just dumped $700,000 into this race. you don t do that if you think you have this locked up. you have brian kemp, i was talking to representatives here this weekend. brian kemp is not popular with a lot of suburban voters. there s a conflict of interest with brian kemp being the republican gubernatorial nominee and also secretary of state. he shut down the online voter registration for georgia for 30 hours for maintenance this weekend, a week end where people are going out to register people to vote. you don t do that unless you re a vote suppressor or you re nervous. i think tennessee and georgia are the places we may see a huge flip. david jolly, you re a former florida republican congressman. we are looking at the spectacle where democrats could win the senate race and lose in florida because the incumbent, bill nelson, is behind. that could be the anomaly in a blue wave. rick scott is an incredibly disciplined campaigner, stays away from the media, spends his own money. bill nelson has not had a tough race in 18 years, probably, but reports are he s about to spend and spend big. he knows this is going to be a big race one interesting thing to come out of florida politics. glen graham is disciplined on the message of ending 20 years of one party control. she s seeing something in the numbers. you have the progressive in andrew gillam saying i m the only non-millionaire in the race. then you have the billionaire class coming in, jeff green spending $40 million in two months to try to win this. lightning round, one word answer, the state that will be the most surprising on election night. david? i hope texas, beto. not going to be any surprises. the republicans will do pretty well. that s a multiple word answer. jason johnson, state that will be most surprising? nobody likes ted cruz. i think beto o rourke pulls it off. mayor thompson? most surprising state? it will be georgia it won t surprise me but it will surprise katon. a little shade in the panel. thank you guys have been much. in our next hour, trump is calling the press the enemy of the people this morning and contradicting his earlier explanation of the trump tower meeting his son had with the russian lawyer. more news coming up. the list goes on. how about a discount for long lists? gold. mara, you save our customers hundreds for switching almost effortlessly. it s a gift. and jamie. -present. -together we are unstoppable. so, what are we gonna do? insurance. that s kind of what we do here. aggression, hostility, agitation, depressed mood, or suicidal thoughts or actions with chantix. serious side effects may include seizures, new or worse heart or blood vessel problems, sleepwalking or allergic and skin reactions which can be life-threatening. stop chantix and get help right away if you have any of these. tell your healthcare provider if you ve had depression or other mental health problems. decrease alcohol use while taking chantix. use caution when driving or operating machinery. the most common side effect is nausea. i can t tell you how good it feels to have smoking behind me. talk to your doctor about chantix. this is probably the most proactive administration regarding urban america and faith-based community and i ll be 60 years old in december. to be honest, i m going to say this at the table. this is the most pro black president we ve had in our lifetime. well, that sentiment expressed by cleveland sterile scott during a meeting between president trump and several black pastors seems especially off key after president trump s attacks on lebron james. now dozens of high profile black pastors have written a scathing open letter to their trump loving colleagues calling them cheerleaders with a collar. they write in part, it was unsettling and upsetting to witness the meeting with you, our moral leaders, and one of the most amoral persons ever to occupy the white house. reverend tracy blackman is an executive minister. it s always great to see you. and this letter which was delivered to my former outlet, the grio, is pretty scathing. you and your colleagues write, it was errantly exclaimed that this is probably going to be the most pro black president we ve had. was he being pro black while building his political platform which was fueled by racism? was he being pro black when he equivocated in charlottesville that left one person dead and dozens injured declaring there was violence on both sides. you were grabbed off the air suddenly as you witnessed that violence firsthand. why in your view did those pastors go to the white house and sing the praises of a president who praised the people who did that as very fine people? good morning, joy. thank you for having me on and i am interested in answering that question. i do want to say that i signed that letter as a pastor and as an independent person, not speaking on behalf of the denomination but speaking from my spirit and my soul. dr. maya ang lelo reminds us wh people show you who they are you should believe them the first time. our current president has showed us who he is in terms of people of color long before he entered the oval office. in 1973 at the age of 26 when mr. trump was then president of the trump organization he defended the racially discriminatory housing practices of his father that were designed to keep black tenants from renting apartments on trump properties. in 1989 after five black and latino teenagers from harlem were arrested and accused of assaulting a white woman in central park, mr. trump used $85,000 of his own money to launch an attack against those boys who were ultimately found innocent with dna and to this day he has never apologized or rescinded his remarks about those young men. for five years the man who became the 45th president of the united states used his fame and fortune to launch a vicious attempt to undermine the legitimacy of the nation s first black president, president barack obama by willfully and knowingly promulgating a lie about his citizenship. he was forced during his campaign to finally admit that he knew all along that barack hussein obama was a citizen and there was no issue with his birth certificate but he s yet to apologize. mr. trump s choice for attorney general for the united states is a man who opposed the voting rights act and who denied a federal judgeship because of his racism. mr. trump is a man who refers to mexicans as rapists, enforced targeted bans on muslims in this country, continues to call for the building of a wall only on the southern border of the united states and has referred to entire african countries in profane language that i won t even repeat here. this president has completely denounced the race has refused to denounce the racist anti-american actions of the recent resurgence of white nationalists. you saw that in charlottesville, you covered that, joy. yeah. and he claimed there were good people on both sides. right. i have to ask you though, pastor, i want to play for you another signator from the reverend in baltimore and ask if you agree with the sentiments about not just donald trump but the pastors in that room. this is a stain on the body of christ. i need to know how y all are smiling at that tape while the whole world frowns at what this represent and what it looks like. the blood is dripping off your hands. what would you say to the pastors who were in that room if you could talk to them right now? what i would say is i respect the right of every pastor to speak his or her own mind on situations. what i resent is the implication that those pastors speak for the black church. the black community is not monolithic. the black church when we use that phrase, we re not simply talking about black ministers who preach or even black members who gather, we re talking about the church that was hewn out of resistance to white supremacy, we re talking about the church that formed in spite of a religion that was given to us for subjugation and that we turned into a faith of liberation. yeah. the assault that these ministers promoted by going to that table and sitting down for a discussion without any kind of plan is that they attacked and they put in a negative light the black church and they don t have the right to do that. reverend traci blackmon, appreciate you being here and appreciate your insights. thank you so much. thank you. and more am joy is coming up. 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joining me now jennifer reuben of the washington post, msnbc contributor jonathan capeheart and danny savalos, matthew miller and dana millbank of the washington post and joining by phone ellie mistow of above the law.com. give us your sense from a legal point of view what has donald trump done to his defense or donald trump jr. s potential legal jeopardy? joy, we are very close to donald trump saying in open court, you re gd right i ordered the code red! this is beyond ridiculous. what we have right now is donald trump admitting, admitting for the first time that his son colluded or conspired, which is the legal term, with a foreign operative to influence an american election and we have trump admitting now kind of indirectly that he covered it up. so we can talk a lot about whether this proves collusion or conspiracy. what i m more focused on is this proves obstruction. you need the underlying crime, the underlying illegality to make an obstruction for justice case and trump just admitted on twitter what the underlying crime was. it s an amazing, hilarious thing. it s actually not the first time he has admitted to something that could be called obstruction of justice. let s go back to the may 2017 lester holt interview in which donald trump admitted why he fired jim comey. take a listen. regardless of recommendation i was going to fire comey knowing there was no good time to do it and, in fact, when i decided to just do it i said to myself, i said, you know, this russia thing with trump and russia is a made-up story, it s an excuse. so, ellie, if donald trump has a history of admitting whatever it is the underlying offense is and kind of skating on it for now, do you think that maybe that experience has taught him that perhaps just admitting it is his best defense? i think the experience has taught him that the republican party does not have the will or strength to call him on it, right? we have to remember, impeachment fundamentally is a political crime. at some point, at some point somebody needs to put a microphone in front of paul ryan s face and ask him if he is an ally to the american people or if he s an ally to donald trump because increasingly those two things are incompatible. i think trump once again is just banking on the inherent weakness of the republican party to actually stop him from doing any of this. yeah, oh, have i got a panel that would love to weigh in on that. i m going to make them wait one more minute. i m going to danny savalos on this. it appears that if you combine the current reporting along with what you re seeing donald trump doing, he s following the advice and example of his lawyer, his tv lawyer rudy giuliani. here s a couple of examples of rudy giuliani saying on tv what donald trump tweeted this morning. i ve been sitting here looking at the federal code trying to find collusion as a crime. it s not. collusion is not a crime. i don t even know if that s a crime, colluding about russians. the hacking is the crime. that certainly is the original crime. the president didn t hack. of course not. he didn t pay them. as you know, it led to the meeting with the russians. if you got the hacked information at cnn would you be in jeopardy of going to jail? of course not. danny, as i remind our audience that this man is a former federal prosecutor who just did that act. anyhow, is this an example of donald trump essentially following the very weird republican advice of counsel? i don t know why we continue to focus on the word collusion and rudy knows better. this is a prosecutor that was a u.s. attorney here in the southern district who absolutely nepapalmed the mob using conspiracy law. he is absolutely familiar with defeating organized crime by using conspiracy, acting in concert or accompliced liability. focusing on collusion doesn t have any legal significance. if he looked in the crimes code he would know that there are plenty of crimes that cover this activity. but playing defense attorney for a moment, if donald trump and giuliani are retreating, retreating now into this ever shrinking bubble of liability and saying hey even if there was collusion, it s not a crime, it could arguably still be consistent with trump s tweet this morning if he s taking the view that donald trump jr. always admitted to seeking dirt on hillary clinton when he admitted in his e-mail, if it s what you say it is, i love it. maybe this is we ll see the trump team say this is consistent with what i ve been saying the whole time, even if there was a meeting, it was for zirt and donald trump jr. admitted it was for dirt it s not a crime. i suspect you may see that kind of spin coming out of the trump administration. we re now primed to expect anything. i want to play one more thing and bring in the panel. this is another thing giuliani did. he said, yes, indeed, the meeting was about getting dirt on hillary clinton. giuliani threw another wrinkle by mentioning there was a second meeting. there may have been another meeting. he threw a new name into the mix as well. take a listen. lenny davis added there was a meeting two days before the meeting took place with donald jr., jared, manafort and two others. gates and one more person. that s a real meeting? you re saying that s a real meeting on another provable subject in which maggie miller, maybe they should get flowers from mueller s grand jury. they are tieing in cooperating witness rick gates. they re admitting the trump tower meeting was what they thought it was, it wasn t what donald trump dictated. this is a gift to the prosecution. no? it is a novel legal strategy. a novel public relations strategy. you often hear lawyers say argue the facts and the facts are on your side if the facts are on your side, argue the law. they tried to argue the facts. they came out and said this wasn t about assistance from the russians. it was about adoption. it turned out they were trying to seek assistance from the russians. now you see them retreating and the president retreating personally and arguing about the law. well, we did it but it wasn t illegal. but there s one interesting tell in his tweet this morning. that s the final statement, but i didn t know about it. right. fefgs so convinced that there wasn t anything wrong about this meeting why does he continue to insist he doesn t know about it, a fact that may fall apart because we ve seen michael cohen telling reporters that in fact the president did know about it. if he didn t know about it, that says he s shoving don jr. out in front of him saying, well, he knew about it. that would be the case. i think if you were making a conventional legal argument, but it really feels at this point that we ve moved beyond any sort of a legal argument and we are sort of preparing and inokay cue lating for what s coming next. he said, okay, i shot somebody on fifth avenue but i missed so it s okay. well, no, that would be a crime, too. but i think the idea is they keep giving out a little more. a few months from now he s going to say, yes, i had a phone call with vladimir putin to throw the election in wisconsin but we didn t talk about pennsylvania. it is incredible but elie made the point that all of this is gearing up towards one outcome. there is a finding you can t prosecute the sitting president f. that finding holds, this is about impeachment. even with a blatant admission that, yes, this was about essentially collusion, what is paul ryan what are the republicans planning on doing about it? first, i d like to remind mr. trump that that ruling only says you can t be prosecuted while in office. correct. so before he goes out the door maybe he wants to resign the presidency and have vice president pence pardon him because he s going to be prosecuteable as soon as he leaves office. put a pin in that. right. republicans are shameless. they won t do anything. we keep waiting for that moment when they will finally topple over and it never comes. so they will, i think at a point in which the prosecutor dumps this report, they ll say, this is much to do about nothing. this is all political. hopefully by then though there will be a different party in control of the house of representatives, then the democrats are going to have the naughty problem, do we proceed with an impeachment case knowing that it s very hard if not impossible to get a conviction? are we going to do to him what the republicans did to bill clinton, create an issue that rallies his base? so i think we are headed for that moment, but i would say to mr. trump and the others, you are not in the clear. you can be prosecuted as soon as you leave office. yeah. jonathan, we talked earlier off camera about the fact that donald trump this is all about managing the message to the base, right? he s talking to 30% of the country convince them no matter what you hear, don t worry about it. you and i are cool. right. there are two courts in play right now. the court of law, which we ve been talking about and the court of public opinion which we ve been talking about and the only sphere, the only space where trump seems to operate but also actually has proven acumen, you know, he puts these tweets out there and he s got all of these people who support him no matter what. this guy doesn t understand nuance. he doesn t know nuance and so he gets information from his real lawyers, freaks them out you think he s hearing he s in trouble? oh, yeah. yeah. this amplifies what matthew miller tweeted out. he must know that dorn jr. is i trouble. right. he lashes out. he says, i didn t know. which to your point, of course he knew. to elie s point earlier which i want to amplify. in josh greene s book, devil s bargain early in the book he makes the point that donald trump learned early on that he could say and do the most outrageous things and no one in the republican party would hold him accountable. right. that s what the birther issue was. he kept pushing, pushing, pushing on the sitting president of the united states claiming that he was illegitimately in the office and the republican party did nothing when they were given every opportunity to push back on the cancer that was starting to spread in the party, they did nothing. to elie s point, to jennifer s points, to all of our points, if we re expecting the republican party, for speaker ryan or mitch mcconnell to hold president trump accountable for this tweet, any tweets to come, for any reports coming from robert mueller, you have another thing coming. nothing is going to happen. it seems to be working. mueller s credibility is being chipped away, chipped away repeatedly a among the trump base. it is having that effect. this was a week where paul manafort started his trial, a completely nonpartisan affair. we see the good work mueller is doing but in a sense he s taking us off of that because we re talking about the food fight again. i wonder, matthew, whether or not the name of the vice president mike pence was brought up whether he can. he s doing the paul ryan, i m not here. i m in the curtains. don t see me. pretend you don t see me. paul manafort is largely responsible for picking mike pence. he was a very integral part of the campaign. papadopoulos was interacting. how long does mike pence get to stay in the curtains? it s a great question. bob mueller s been conducting this investigation going around talking to a number of people in the white house. he s interviewed numbers of people in the white house, interviewed reince priebus, interviewed the former press secretary. if mike pence had any involvement both either on the campaign side or obstruction of justice side through the involvement of firing of jim comey or other things he claimed he knew notion about until after the fact, we ll hear about it. pence might have been smart enough to recognize early on that this administration was a train wreck and at times he was better off hiding behind the curtains inside and not being involved with the president s reckless illegality. let me go back to elie. you have paul manafort on trial not related to this but potential tax evasion, money laundering, items like that. he s already in trouble. you have donald trump jr. it does seem his father has shoved him out front. he was the principle person who organized that and you had jared kushner in that meeting. in your view how much legal jeopardy are those people in that meeting in starting with the son? infinite. i don t know what it takes. i m a father. i do not know what it takes to throw your own son under the bus on twitter because you re angry at 9:00 in the morning. i just i cannot conceive of what kind of person does that. he just loradoed his son for what? for what gain? jared is in a lot of trouble, manafort is in a lot of trouble. don jr. is now in a lot of trouble because don jr. lied in front of congress and his father just admitted it. so bad. it s bad for them. it s bad for all of them. yeah. you wanted to jump in, matt. i wanted to say one of the things one of the big open questions for the mueller investigation is has he contacted don jr.? jay sekulow said he s not been contacted. if he s not been contacted it s because he s a target. exactly. one is, yes, you have all of that testimony and there s a reason why the republicans haven t let those transcripts out because they re damning. so to the extent to which he lied and then don jr. also put his name on a statement that said this was about adoption, he s in trouble. in terms of crime? this is like a video camera of the bank robbery. they have all of the people in the room, they have the e-mail saying, yes, thanks for the information from a russian person that i m going to use to help my father you don t have evidence like this in a normal case. yes. because no one s this stupid except these people. well, danny, you have a bank robbery on tape where donald trump jr. has essentially thrown the bag of money to donald trump jr. he s thrown him the bag of money. what defense is left for don jr. whose statement was dictated, written by his father, turns out to have been completely false, tried to say adoption was the reason for the meeting when everyone knows that means magnitsky act which still leads back to russia. what legal defense is left for donald trump jr.? that s right. there s a glaring inconsistency between what donald trump jr. has said and testified to and to what trump sr. has just said in this tweet, but just to play again devil s advocate, isn t it possible in trump s mind that everything he said today in his tweet is consistent with his view of this meeting, which is that there wasn t anything wrong with this meeting. and in that sense because it s long been suspected, just as you said that this meeting was not about adoptions, it was about getting dirt on hillary clinton, if that is the case and we ve known that for a while, then in trump sr. s mind he s done nothing but maintain the status quo and concedes that, hey, this may have been a meeting about dirt but meeting about dirt is not a crime. now it is, turns out, a crime. that s the problem. that s the issue. but it is a crime that is not as it s a crime that is not commonly charged. right. and in trump s mind thinking like a trump, if he believes there was nothing wrong with goating dirt from russians or someone from arkansas or someone from anywhere, then this is consistent with how he views this case. ultimately as no big deal and much ado about nothing. i ve got to throw it to the panel. i don t know how many elections you ve covered. have you ever heard of a campaign, an american presidential campaign fielding dirt from the kremlin and saying that s normal political oppo research. no, no, no, no, no. not even one? no. it is a really bad move. what danny was just saying, in trump s mind an illegal act is not illegal in his mind. yeah. but on paper it s illegal. we did have an instance, in the 2000 campaign, the gore campaign book no, the bush campaign book landed in the gore s team office and they looked at that, nope, gave it to the fbi. that s what moral people do. that s what people who follow the law do. that s what patriots do. and understand their defense, their political defense is we went to the russians. what s wrong with that? what s wrong with that? so basically the republicans are content to have a foreign power intervene on their behalf. that s where we ve gotten to. that s where we ve gotten to. you ve just had the junior senator from kentucky, land pr l paul, there is an open affinity to russia acceptable in the republican party. the only thing i can think of is they are building a stupidity defense. this is the fifth explanation for this meeting now by my count. right. and from the very beginning they said a lot of them say privately, we were too inept to collude. right. that is the one thing that possibly rings true when you see stupid at this. i m going to ask elie? no, ignorance of the law is no defense. no defense! they can t be they can t get out of this by saying they were too stupid to do it correctly. let me ask you one other question, elie, elie and danny. first elie. is there a way to legally obtain is it lawful in any way to obtain opposition research from a foreign government to use in an american presidential campaign? is there any way that that is legal? i mean, really, what the system wants what the system wants is transparency so whatever you re getting, whatever is helping your campaign, they re supposed to register as who they are and you are supposed to be able to transparently know who is helping you. a lot of the problem here is the secretiveness of the entire situation. and, danny, to that also point, if there s stolen material the nixon case was about stolen material from the democratic national committee being used in the presidential campaign. in this case the stolen material was hacked by russians, by a foreign government that was connected to the kremlin. is there any way to legally use that stolen material in an american presidential campaign and not disclose it? no, but not even necessarily because it s stolen, more because it s anything of value and the statute prohibits receiving or trying to receive or obtain anything of value from a foreign power. we need not reach whether or not the material was stolen because as long as it is something of value, it doesn t need to be a bag of cash or a bar of gold. anything of value can be pamphlets, it can be it can be information and in this case if it is information in the form of e-mails or something like that, then it s not a hard case to make it it meets the anything of value definition in the statute irrespective of whether it was stolen, borrowed or on lease. yeah. the reason we know it s something of value is trump called for it to be used. right. this gave the look of valueness, if you will, during the campaign, during the convention when he goes out and he says, russia, if you re listening yeah. send the tweets out. then they subsequently went and started following instructions. exactly. it s only because this stuff is in public that we pause. imagine if quietly he had said tell the russians we want them to release the e-mails. yes. there wouldn t be all of this questioning, is it legal, is it illegal? or imagine if, i don t know, when he met with vladimir putin for two hours, doing it again. we don t know what they talked about. thank you to our guests. also to our legal eagles. up next, donald trump s latest shot in social media. the fact is, there are over ninety-six hundred roads named park in the u.s. it s america s most popular street name. but allstate agents know that s where the similarity stops. if you re on park street in reno, nevada, the high winds of the washoe zephyr could damage your siding. and that s very different than living on park ave in sheboygan, wisconsin, where ice dams could cause water damage. but no matter what park you live on, one of 10,000 local allstate agents knows yours. now that you know the truth, are you in good hands? and the wolf huffed and puffed. like you do sometimes, grandpa? well, when you have copd, it can be hard to breathe. so my doctor said. symbicort can help you breathe better. starting within 5 minutes. it doesn t replace a rescue inhaler for sudden symptoms. doctor: symbicort helps provide significant improvement of your lung function. symbicort is for copd, including chronic bronchitis and emphysema. it should not be taken more than twice a day. it may increase your risk of lung infections, osteoporosis, and some eye problems. tell your doctor if you have a heart condition or high blood pressure before taking it. grandpa: symbicort could mean a day with better breathing. watch out, piggy! 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ask your doctor if myrbetriq is right for you, and visit myrbetriq.com to learn more. crisp leaves of lettuce. freshly made dressing. clean food that looks this good. delivered to your desk. now delivering to home or office. panera. food as it should be. we are especially concerned that these attacks increase the risks of journalists being targeted with violence. on thursday when cnn s jim acosta challenged the white house press secretary over journalists of late offering an opportunity for the administration to say they are not an enemy of the people. this was sarah huckabee s response. it s ironic, jim, that not only you and the media attack the president for his rhetoric when they frequently lower the level of conversation in this country repeatedly, repeatedly the media resorts to personal attacks without any context to incite anger. his own daughter acknowledges that. all i m asking you to do, sarah, is to acknowledge that right now and right here. i appreciate your passion. i share it. i ve addressed this question. i ve addressed my personal feelings. i m here to speak on behalf of the president. he s made his comments clear. host of in the thick and npr s latino media. i m going to you, maria. i want to play for you our own katie tur of msnbc telling you some of the things she still hears and things she s heard and get your response about this atmosphere that particularly is toxic for women journalists. take a listen. i hope you get raped and killed, one person wrote to me just this week. raped and killed. not just me but a couple of my female colleagues as well, and in case you want to argue that this has nothing to do with the president, the most recent i note i got ended with maga. maria, you had spoken with the president and complained about personal attacks against her and how she feels she feels about donald trump. this atmosphere has been very pointed, very targeted and women journalists have taken the brunt of it. you know who i m thinking about right now? i m thinking about identia b. w. she wanted to cover and report on the lynchings that were happening in the united states of america. because she wanted to report on that she was labeled some kind of advocacy journalist and that she had around agenda. the reason i m bringing up ida b. wells is because women journalists, women of color journalists, we bear an incredible responsibility in how the role of journalism exists in the united states of america. so we have to be out there speaking out and of course, joy, as you know, oftentimes when we do speak out we re criticized. we re told, you have an agenda. there s something wrong with you. you re mexican? oh, you re a woman, you have an agenda on that. as journalists, we have to continue to speak the truth but this is not normal, as i ve said multiple times right here with you, joy. i feel like us as journalists, we continue to play by the same rules. and i ve been trying to think, like what can we do? we have to come up with some kind of a strategy. is it a media blackout? do all of the heads of the national news media get together? we have a conference and figure out what we do? well, most of the people who run the networks are white men and so these kinds of attacks yet i think that i don t even want to say it, but one of us is going to go down and what are we going to do then? we re just going to report on it like another headline, another story? you know, eric, as someone who s analyzed the media for a long time, that is a good question. what can the meet yeah do? the media is still subjecting themselves to these conferences with sarah huckabee sanders? if we look at trump s tweet this morning which was completely unhinged, inciting violence and inciting it against the press. i don t know how any journalist shows up at the white house press briefing. these press briefings are a joke. they re an avalanche of lies. they re not a good forum to be fact checked instantly. there is no factual information shared at a white house press briefing. that is where we are. it doesn t exist. if you re a white house reporter working hard to get information, you can t get any in a briefing. what has also become new is the sort of scripted set performance pieces by sarah sanders from the grievance si nation, right? you just played one. and so now it s just become this platform for bashing the press, for demonizing the press, for hating the press. i wrote a column a year ago. i said can the white house press briefings be saved. it seemed glaringly obvious it could not and i don t understand why anyone is playing this game anymore. jennifer, if you go to authoritarian countries, one of the features is you do not have a free press. there s very limited ability to speak out against the regime in power and the media that does exist is very co-opted. it praises the administration. you see the tactic all over the parts of europe that are going in that authoritarian direction. donald trump this morning literally tweeted out and accused the media of not only being the enemy of the people which is a stalinist term. chuck todd tweeted in terms, this is outrate gous. i m sorry. i know he s baiting us to respond. i m taking the bait in hopes that rational people realize this is wrong. chuck todd is probably the most straight ahead, down the middle journalist. if he is having to tweet in that kind of exasperation, what is it the media could do differently? come around to the view that i share now with eric. i thought they were there to document the horror but now we know what the horror is. we don t have to put it on television. we don t have to put it on television live. if by some chance she utters some morsel of accurate information, it could be fact checked and related to the audience. the same thing with the rallies. no reason to put them on live television. if there is news made, print journalism or on air journalism can report that. but to run an entire rally is just to add fuel to the fire. and i will say this. i think it s about time that the major news outlets, abc, nbc, cbs, major newspapers pen a letter to the president that we are physically endangering our reporters and that we will hold you responsible for their safety. yeah. i think it s time to put him on notice and let them contemplate. i would also add one little thing. sarah huckabee sanders is so concerned that people aren t nice to her and people like me think that not that she should be harassed but ishunned. the reason is that she lies. she attacks our free press. no respectable employer should hire her after this term. no university. no news outlet. she has lied and she has endangered the lives of reporters. that s why she should be shunned. not harassed, shunned. joy, what would happen if we did like, again well, one, yes, the rallies, forget about that. we don t have to cover that. that s not news. what if, and i ve said this on your show before, again, send the interns. it s a great training to the press conference. if we completely we as the media have got to start taking certain steps to communicate things. i think a letter, absolutely. but what if we just turn away? what if we didn t show what if all of us said for a whole week we re not going to talk about one thing that comes out of the white house? i mean, it s radical. i know, it s upsetting, but this is not how we operate but he is coming after us. are we going to have to start talking about this after one of us has been killed? is that it? yeah. and, you know, eric, you ve had the difference also is that there s a lot of personalization in a way that we know in the age of social media can send sort of people out to get a person. donald trump calling don lemon dumb and impugning his intelligence as an award-winning journalist. when you have right now sarah jong is their new flavor of the month or the person they don t want the new york times to have on staff. we know george ronalds was removed and it s very personalized. are you concerned that the personalization of it combined with the real furor could get somebody hurt? oh, yeah. people have already been hurt. indianapolis newsroom experienced that massacre. trump is going to get more journalists killed and he s not going to care when it happens, period. that s where we are. we ve come so far from spero o agnew. we are so far beyond that now. as you say, this is a toxic, dangerous, personalized war. how many journalists have been killed under putin s rule? that s where we may be headed. it s scary to think about. it isn t complaining among journalists. this is serious stuff. jennifer rubin, maria, eric, thank you all very much. really appreciate you. next up, not everyone is mad at the nfl for xing colin kaepernick over his take a knee protest. we have a great debate coming up after this break. stay with us. i did mom. wanna try it? yes. it intensely moisturizes your hair and scalp and keeps you flake free. manolo? look at my soft hair. i should be in the shot now too. try head and shoulders two in one. let these family members know that they re not alone. nfl star randy moss made a quiet but powerful statement saturday night during his induction into the pro football hall of fame sporting a time emblazoned with the names of black and brown victims. moss once played football with former san francisco 49ers quarterback colin kaepernick, another outspoken athlete who used his platform who paid for it with his career. joining me are two men who disagree on whether the price that kaepernick paid was justified. camille foster, host of the podcast the fifth column and teray host of the teray show. thank you for being here. thank you. since we ve been talking about lebron playing what lebron james told our friend don lemon on monday about colin kaepernick. you heard what the president has said about marshawn, about stef. yup. about, you know, it seems like cap perfect zblik yekaeperni. yeah. men of color. what s up with that? what s up with that is all wrong, it s not up, it s down. for him to, like i said, use force to kind of divide us is something i can t i can t sit back and not say nothing. do you think he uses black athletes as a scapegoat? at times. at times and more often than not i believe he uses anything that s popular to try to negate people from thinking about the positive that they could actually be doing. camille foster, do you think the president has unfairly demonized colin kaepernick? do you think it is unjust that colin kaepernick is no longer playing in the nfl? let me take the last question first. i m not certain why colin kaepernick is not playing in the nfl. i don t know if it has to do with the skill on the field or something with the very, very vocal protests. with respect to the president s antics, i think it s fair to call them antics, the president is a bit of a bore. he calls people names and does all sorts of silliness. i don t think that is appropriate. i think it s a problem when the president of the united states is caricaturing people and demagoguing them. that being said, the fact is there is a lot about the conversation about police reforms, police-involved shootings that i think is very unhealthy. the fact is when people in a black lives matter camp talk about things or someone takes a knee, the thinking is anyone who disagrees with their perspective does so because they don t care about black lives. on the other side, the sensibility is if you re taking a knee, you re disrespecting my flag. these are two camps talking past one another and not talking about the issues that they fundamentally care about which is why i would say if you have a movement like this, you re interested in achieving reforms, it s not apparent that having colin kaepernick at the tip of your spear is good. he s going to inflame things that are hyperbolic and don t get to the heart of the issue. in 2017 you had less than 1,000 people shot and killed by police. that s a number that s important but it s less than 1,000. we shouldn t be hysterical. only about 68 of those people were unarmed and only 20 of those people were black. 30 of them were white. this is an issue that is materially significant for all-americans of all races and we should be talking about it in that way, not valkanizing and making it about race. i have no thoughts about why colin kaepernick is not in the nfl. he s not there because they don t like his protests because a lot of the fans, the white fans are bothered by his protests. the core issue here is the killing, the wrongful killing of black people by agents of their government. colin kaepernick is morally right, indeed, has a moral imperative to speak about this when he has a platform and the notion that you don t do this in your workplace really does not fit. i would agree with it, in 99% of the cases accountants should not be going into h.&r block and saying, let s talk about our education system. when you have a case of life and death. one, two, three is far too many wrongfully killed by our government. when you have an issue like that and you have a platform like colin kaepernick has, you have to say something. my question is not why is kaepernick saying so much, my question is why are not more people saying more? because this is an incredibly important issue in modern america? why would we settle for any number of black people being wrongfully killed by their own government? and, you know, i have to take exception to the first thing you said, that there s a question of why colin kaepernick isn t playing. it s the subject of a lawsuit he s filed saying there was collusion. it seems more coincidenceal that he and eric reid are not on rosters. other players are not on rosters. e.a. sports had to a popollogizr cutting colin kaepernick s name out of the sound track to the madden nfl game and to big shawn and other people. my friend kyle harvey has a piece up at the shadow league asking when did colin kaepernick s name essentially a curse sfwhord how can yword? how can you say that? i can only speculate about the reason why he has not been picked up by a team. there are plenty of players who have really dodgy track records who still manage to get picked up by teams in various circumstances. what i can talk about in a concrete way but not nearly as concrete as i would like, i am an advocate for criminal justice reform. i think there should be independent investigation of all police-involved shootings and i think narrowly talking about this as a racial issue or primarily a racial issue is myopic. this is the point of some of the fundamental reforms that benefit all-americans. this doesn t have to be something where people are vehemently disagreeing with one another. if the police kill, should they investigate themselves? i don t know an american of any political party that could disagree with that. i would disagree because i d rather see an independent board. that s not the answer to the question. investigating themselves doesn t ever work. that s what happens in nearly 100% of police-involved shootings. let toure finish his thought. no, just like that. we have a significant because they don t want to deal with the problem that too many black men and women are being killed by agents of their government. the police are part of the government, and we are not receiving effective policing when we are scared in our communities of being killed by the police. this is not something that we can just just say just shut up and play. that is the other side of this. that s ultimately what you are saying. we don t want to hear what you are saying, colin kaepernick. there is a first amendment argument and issue, and just the right in america to protest when you are not getting the justice that you deserve, and if colin kaepernick is saying, don t protest, you re saying, shut up and play. statistically, it is just a fact that black that african-americans are killed more often than their white counterparts by police. that is just an actual fact. so what would be wrong with athletes who are black and subject to that kind of violence potentially joining in those protests? black people are overrepresented in shooting statistics and rates of homicide, and are you doing black on black crime? i m saying something fundamentally different than that. i m saying that i don t know just looking at the disparities is enough. we have to have you guys come back. that wasn t what i asked you about. i was asking about murders by police. we ll have you back. thank you guys. more a.m. joy coming up. call. and they greeted me as they always do. sergeant baker, how are you? they took care of everything a to z. having insurance is something everyone needs, but having usaa- now that s a privilege. when heartburn hits. fight back fast with tums smoothies. it neutralizes stomach acid at the source. tum tum tum tum tums. smoothies. .and introducing new tums sugar-free. ron dellams, an unwavering force in congress, passed away on monday after battling prostate cancer. during his time in congress, he led a 14-year campaign against a p partide in south africa and wrote the legislation that imposed sanctions on that country, that were lifted in 1991 after they repealed their laws and released nelson mandela from prison. he spent more than two decades in congress after serving as the mayor of oakland, california, and was among the most prominent african-americans in public office who also happened to have helped change the course of history. our condolences to his family. and that s it. before i go, i also want to congratulate team a.m. joy on our award for the national association of black journalists. we were honored for our segment on the kalif browder story. and the creator of the jay-z executive producer documentary series. many thanks. wu wish i could have been with you guys. thank you for joining us. we ll be back next week, and stay with msnbc. goes into making america s #1 shave. precision machinery and high-quality materials from around the world. nobody else even comes close. now starting at $7.99. gillette. the best a man can get. you know how painful heartburn can be. for fast-acting, long-lasting relief, try doctor recommended gaviscon. it quickly neutralizes stomach acid and helps keep acid down for hours. relieve heartburn with fast- acting, long-lasting gaviscon.
The latest news from around the world with hosts John Berman and Poppy Harlow. does not change even as this story changes dramatically. we know there could be legal consequences. that aside, are there political? well, that s one of the interesting things because we ve we ve seen these tweets over the past couple of days. this tweet about jeff sessions which a lot of legal analysts and experts have said, boy, that could really do you damage in a court of law, that could be obstruction, that could contradict the other statements. but in the court of public opinion and what president trump believes and what his advisers believe is that attacking this investigation is really the best way to succeed in that court of public opinion. and there was definitely a shift after the michael cohen raid and we ve seen in recent months about the president racheting up his attacks on this mueller investigation and i m told that is because he very much believes and his lawyers advised him that this as a sitting president not going to be trial that plays out in a court of law. it will be if anything comes of this, a trial that plays outs in the court of public opinion down the investigation. you don t see repudiation of comments, they are running in lock step with him now. they are motivated to come out in 2018 and try to take the house back and i thnk you would see a racheting up of investigations and see subpoenas and certainly a lot more oversight from the hill if democrats won the house and majority in 2018. all of that said, i m not sure it would be a sure fire bet. i think the prospect of impeachment could backfire as well. i don t think we know at this point. i think we would be careful not to make too much implications because it s a long way to november. the mueller probe could be done by then and still see more lingering action and see democrats take over. the president is out on the campaign trail saying we re going to see a red wave not a blue wave, according to his numbers as well. you even saw adam schiff, the ranking democrat on the intelligence committee in a vocal opponent of the president say over the weekend, again, warning fellow democrats don t run on this, don t run on impeachment for precisely the point you make. let s listen to something else the president aesz lawyer said over the weekend. chocking all of his denials about the trump tower meeting and et cetera and intent, up to bad information. here s more. i think it s very important to point out in a situation like this, you have over time facts develop, that s what investigations do. facts develop, facts are facts, right, you either know them or don t and it is very possible that a lawyer for the president could be kept in the dark about facts. but do facts develop over time? of courbviously not. facts don t develop they are set in stone. at the very best this was a reckless statement on the part of the jay seck co-low and at the worst it was a bold faced lie. i think what we re seeing here is that the president is a bad client. there s a reason why there are many white color criminal defense attorneys who have turned down this representation. it s not a good thing when your client lies to you. you cannot adequately represent your client s interest when you are getting bad information as it were from your client. josh, one final thought. as the president and his legal team decide if he s going to sit down for an interview with mueller, that decision, who knows when it s going to come. they keep seeming to say a few weeks. they have been saying there s nothing else here. we ve given all of these documents, et cetera, you had the former white house counsel to president obama now professor at nyu over the weekend saying that trump s attorney s argument that he shouldn t have to do an interview with mueller because he doesn t know anything, doesn t that now change that he said on twitter this was to get dirt on my opponent, essentially, doesn t that change? well, a lot of episodes that the president provides acknowledgement, one of the key players in a certain situation, whether from the firing of james comey, episodes around michael flynn, his pressure on jeff sessions to try to force that attorney general to resign. there s certainly a case to be made that the president could provide unique information because he was one of the key players. that said, the interview is not a sure thing at this point. the president as we reported and others have as well, continues to wants to do it. he seems to think he can talk special counsel robert mueller into seeing it his way. i think his lawyers seeing his depositions over the years, seeing his tendency not to always tell the truth to say it lightly are more concerned about an interview with special counsel. and we ve kind of been in a hold here, they ve been proposals, lots of negotiations and we re still really nowhere firm and it s august. i think you ll see in the next few weeks something will have to materialize because we re approaching election season and midterms and i think the president wants this investigation over with and i think they ll have to make that doesn t matter when he wants it over with, it s up to mueller s time line here. thank you all very much. certainly will prolong it if he doesn t do an interview. very fair point. have to wrap it up to do one. fair point. thank you all. still to come, president trump and kim jong-un, hopeful for a second summit between the two leaders. high stakes battle in ohio down to the wire. president s party is struggling to hold on a seat that has gone republican for last two decades and this but you re a fan of the president, think he s doing a good job? i izhe s doing a lot better t what obama did. where did that come from? bill weir is in sturgis, at the world s largest motorcycle rally. ivor of alzheimer s disease is out there. and the alzheimer s association is going to make it happen. but we won t get there without you. join the fight with the alzheimer s association. you might or joints.hing for your heart. but do you take something for your brain. with an ingredient originally discovered in jellyfish, prevagen has been shown in clinical trials to improve short-term memory. prevagen. healthier brain. better life. agent beekman was one step ahead of them.dits stole the lockbox from the wells fargo stagecoach, because he hid his customers gold in a different box. and the bandits, well, they got rocks. we protected your money then and we re dedicated to helping protect it today. like alerting you to certain card activity we find suspicious. if it s not your purchase, we ll help you resolve it. it s a new day at wells fargo. but it s a lot like our first day. it s the ford summer sales event and now is the best time to buy. man: (on tablet) preparing classic campfire trout. say what? 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when you look what s been happening over the last week, the official lines between the u.s. and north korea have been increasingly harsh, mike pompeo was calling on nations to continue enforcing sanctions against north korea, of violating u.n. security council resolutions and growing its nuclear program which is backed up by u.s. intelligence. and not following through on the june 12th agreement in singapore. if things don t happen in terms of sanctions relief and peace tra treaty they may walk away. they still flatter him and say that president trump wants progress but it s u.s. politics getting in the way. and of course president trump sent a very nice tweet to kim jong-un last week thanking him for his nice letter and saying i was wondering if this was a hint, i ll see you soon. now the source is telling me in fact it is a strong possibility at least from the north korean perspective that there will be a second meeting between trump and kim sometime later this year and north koreans are pushing for this to happen before the midterm elections in november. they think that trump wants to tout north korea as success before the midterms and they want to give them that opportunity. they hope that direct negotiations between kim and trum much will get the north koreans a better deal in the end. we have to watch and see what happens. that is soon if that were to be the case. will riply, thank you for reporting and important context. at midnight tonight, the u.s. will reimpose sanctions on iran. months after president trump announced he was pulling u.s. out of the iran nuclear agreement, the white house is expected to provide more details in a call starting right now, this hour, we ll bring you those when we get them. the president also readying his response directly at the president and let s go to the state department. michelle kosinski joins me for more. this is the first action after pulling out of the iran agreement that they would slap back these sanctions. but this is just part one, right, michelle. the tougher sanctions come in november. yeah, i mean this targets iran s ability to bank the american dollar, which is a big deal. aviation, that is expected to have an impact in the meantime leading up to this, so many companies and european companies included have gotten out of iran. so the white house wants to emphasize that they believe their regime is working but then this is kind of like a show that the u.s. is serious about doing this, including that the u.s. will sanction european companies even if they continue to do business. november 4th is when the as sanctions come back on to iran against its oil sectors and energy sectors and central bank. that s expected to have a bigger impact as iran s economy is in deep, deep trouble and it s been facing increasing protests now going on for days, poppy. thank you very much, we ll get into this more next hour and let us know what does come up on the call going on right now with the white house. ahead, a crucial vote in ohio tomorrow, a neck in neck race to tell us a lot about the upcoming mid terms, what should be a safe seat for republicans is not looking safe at all next. i don t keep track of regrets. and i don t add up the years. but what i do count on is boost®. delicious boost® high protein nuritional drink now has 33% more protein, along with 26 essential vitamins and minerals boost® high protein. be up for life. -morning. -morning. -what do we got? 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[beep] [beep] [beep] our members shop a little differently. so we reward every purchase. let s see what kate sent. for you. for all of us. that s for me. navy federal credit union open to the armed forces, the dod, veterans, and their families. in a special special election toex, republicans in ohio risk losing a seat in the district they have controlled for three decades. that s why president trump made a special trip there for a rally this weekend. we must elect troy balderson. we have to elect troy. i need your vote august 7th. the special election is an ohio 12th district and last major race before the midterm and may reveal a lot about what we ll see in november. in fact it is john kasich, says it should be an easy win for rpz. listen. the chaos that seems to surround donald trump unnerved a lot of people. it s kind of shocking, this should be a slam dunk and it s not. joining me now david urban, former trump campaign strategist. thanks for being with me, david. thanks for having me, poppy. how are you? i m good. kasich is right, look at the polling numbers, balderson at 44% and danny o connor at 43% in a district that the president won by 11 points and district the republicans have held on almost as long as i ve been alive, three decades. is kasich right, this isn t a slam dunk because of the president? not surprisingly governor kasich is taking a jab at the president and given their rocky past, i don t think that s any surprise. and poppy, look, in all of these races, all of these special elections especially candidates matter. candidates matter to a great deal. if you go back and think about where the democrats have been successful this these tight races and ralph north rum and conner lam in pennsylvania and danny o brien and these folks o connor i m sorry, danny o connor. these folks are a far cry from candidates like ocasio-cortez, they are blue dog democrats both danny o connor as well as conner lam both have said they would not vote for nancy pelosi for speaker. they are trying to distance themselves from the democratic party that means run as republicans. that may be but your party needs to have the stronger candidate in the critical districts if you re going to win. i want your reaction to what else kasich said. you heard this interview with george stephanopoulos, why he is supporting a republican candidate and then something stunning. he came out against this border separation policy. he came out against the tariffs and came out for fixing social security. you know, on his website or whatever, i asked him the other day, why are you bringing trump in? i don t have anything to do with it. is he surprised president trump was come and didn t want to come? did you invite trump in here for president? he said no, i didn t. so i think donald trump decides where he wants to go and they think they are firing up the base. either the republican candidate balderson didn t ask the president of the united states for help in this very tight race or he did and he doesn t want to admit it. that s your read? poppy, listen, i don t i don t know what conversation he had with the president or didn t have with the president but i can t imagine somebody running for a house seat that would not want the president of the united states to come in, especially in ohio 12 as you pointed out. the president carried so decisively. look, that race was a very, very tight race it s a place where you do face uphill challenges from for example suburban women. you know that. right, no, listen, exactly. i think that you need to get make sure as you know, need to make sure your base turns out in these low number kind of special elections race that s held in august when most people are out on vacation someplace with their families, it s going to be a pretty low turnout. so one of the strategies here, make sure your base turns out and turns out forcefully. that s why the president is there. it sounds like you re preparing for a potential loss and what the narrative should be on that if you do lose. you re saying it s august, no one is watching but ohio 12 matters. no, it does matter greatly, poppy. each one of these seats matters a great deal. look, the republican candidate won a very tough primary, a ten-way primary beat out one of my very close friends, guy named tim cain, won by 28% of the vote. 28% of the vote got him to this point where he is now. these tough bruising primaries do have an impact on the general election as well. yeah, david, let me get you on a few other topics since you know the president well. he made very clear to everyone over the weekend something that he wouldn t say and didn t say before. and that is that he said about the trump tower meeting in 2016, quote, this was a meeting to get information on an opponent. information from russians on hillary clinton. this is the an tij this ses of what they said over again, the statement he dictated in july of last year, said this meeting was primarily discussed a program about the adoption of russian children. so which one are we supposed to believe, david? so poppy, look, i m going to push back on that. my good friend jonathan swan at aixio has a piece out that says, look, what s the big news here? there is no breaking news. this is exactly what the president said on july 13th of 2017 one year ago. i think if we go back and look at the statement from july 13th, 2017 he says the exact same thing and jonathan has it right. i read jonathan s piece, the president dictated we know this because of the letter sent to mueller s team admitting he did dictate that july 8th statement in which it said the meeting was primarily about russian adoption, nothing else to see here and now the president is saying it s information on an oppone opponent. the american people should believe which one because it matters, doesn t it? it does matter. it does matter, poppy. you know what, it is very confusing and i would say the latter of the two statements, right, the july 13th statement, i believe. i don t believe that the president there s a lot of folks out there opining that the president knew about this meeting at some point along the way. i m not so certain about that. i go with a july 13th 2017 statement where he said look, this is a meeting about people potentially offering up they came in under goois about lifting sanctions on the mag knit ski act and offering opposition research on a candidate. look, we know from the e-mail chain setting up this meeting to don jr. that it was about dirt on hillary clinton and he said if it s later in the summer i love it but i m running out of time and i do want to get you on something so important. that is the media, the freedom of the press, and as you know over the weekend ethe president said the fake news is the enemy of the people then he said they, meaning us, the media, can also cause war. is that taking this too far? is that dangerous? to have threats against their life? look, sure, again, i think that the president is krek, look at the words, fake news as he said is bad he said they can also he calls cnn fake news. and you know it s not i don t think he called the entire network. yes, he does, he writes it, you wouldn t be on this network if you thought that and they, meaning the media, they can also cause war. i understand you work for him and friend of his, is this taking it too far? yeah, look, i think it s taking it a little bit too far. i think there are very, very many good journalists in america and across the world and people risk their lives every day to get the truth out all across the world. but at the same time, there are lots and lots of bad journalists. to say there are no bad journalists is just naive for anybody s account. there are bad doctors and bad lawyers and bad accountants and to think there are no bad journalists, just does not doesn t pass a straight face test. except you know the president groups together huge networks and newspapers and says they are all fake news then says they can cause war so i appreciate your candor. listen, poppy, let me put it this way, i don t think anyone at cnn or journalists that you or i work with cause war. how about that? i appreciate that. nice to have you. come back soon. thank you. the president who told us quote, tariffs are the greatest and plans a multibillion dollar rescue package for farmers hurt by trade wars now claims tariffs will bring down the national debt. it s a big promise. we ll fact check it next. hi i m joan lunden. today s senior living communities have never been better, with amazing amenities like movie theaters, exercise rooms and swimming pools, public cafes, bars and bistros even pet care services. and there s never been an easier way to get great advice. a place for mom is a free service that pairs you with a local advisor to help you sort through your options and find a perfect place. a place for mom. you know your family we know senior living. together we ll make the right choice. it s the ford summer sales event and now is the best time to buy. man: (on tablet) preparing classic campfire trout. say what? trout. trout. alright. you don t think i need both? why does he have that axe? make summer go right with ford, america s best-selling brand. now get 0% financing for 72 months plus $1,000 ford credit bonus cash on a great selection of suvs. during the ford summer sales event, get our best offer of the season: 0% financing for 72 months plus $1,000 ford credit bonus cash. a lot of paints say ordinthey can do the job,ver. but just one can behr through it all. behr premium plus, a top rated interior paint at a great price. family friendly, disaster proof. find it exclusively at the home depot. i love you, basement bathroom of solitude, but sometimes you stink. febreze air effects doesn t just mask, it cleans away odors. because the things you love can stink. moore who advised the president on all things economy during the campaign. christine, the president says that these tariffs will bring down the national debt, $21 trillion. large amounts of the national debt, he says. the tariffs on the $85 billion worth of goods right now at best would bring in $21 billion. 0.1% of the national debt. exactly. the national debt is going up. it s going up because the government is spending so much more than it brings in and the treasury department has to borrow money, ironically in some cases, many cases from the chinese to pay for that debt. we re running up the national debt, $21.3 trillion right now, went up a big amount also during the obama administration because of the financial crisis. it was spending all kinds of money to keep the economy out of recession. you know, you don t you don t get out of the national debt by tariffs, you get out of the national debt by huge growth, which is i think what their strategy is. but that is cutting the national debt by large amounts, paying it down just by tariff strategy alone is not possible. you also look at the cost of this to american companies and consumers steven moore, coca-cola said they ll charge more for coke because aluminum and winne bago will charge more for rvs because of the tariffs. you have the budget director acknowledging we re going to run a trillion dollar plus deficit for at least the next four years, i mean by the pred s own calculation, do we need mortar i haves? tariffs or taxes, that s one reason i don t like them because they are taxes but they do collect money. little history lesson for the first 100 years of our nation, as christine knows, the primary way we raised revenue for the federal government was through tariffs. i m not justifying but i don t like tariffs but let me give you a status of where we are on this trade situation. i think president trump had a major advance a week ago wednesday in europe where it looks like we could get a nice agreement with europe, buy more of our agricultural products and manufacturing products and oil and gas. i talked to the trade people over the weekend. they feel good where we are with mexico poppy. they feel like we re making good advances with britain. and so i think where we re at right now is the strategy which i ve always thought was a smart strategy, which is isolate ch china, china is a big, big problem. poppy, you said trump is launching a trade war with china. i think if donald trump were on he would tell you, we re not launching this trade war, this was launched a long time ago by china where they are restraining our exports to china and they are treating and stealing. they steal 300 billion of intellectual property. most americans agree that can t continue any longer. we need to retaliate. and the question becomeses at what cost for consumer. there will be a cost to the consumer, no doubt. the president pointed to the chinese markets in his argument. and said the chinese markets are down 27%, the stock market and said that is evidence the trade strategy is working. there s a huge government focused deleveraging going on there, cutting debt campaign going on and the trade spat. it has not been good for chinese markets. but i think using the chinese markets as somehow a barometer for how americans will feel better about paying more for a car or more for a coke, those are two different economic statistics. i m not quite sure that that sells his argument there. you know, look, the long term strategy here, in the short term there will be pain because these companies american companies paying this tax will have to find domestic sources, right? long term. the white house strategy is that long term you re going to exchange for the balance of trade. the irony here is that the chinese have sort of shifted from that manufacturing world to the chief manufacturing staff and want to be the leader on the things that really matter like ai and stuff like that. we re almost in a way fighting the trade battles for 25 years ago. that s a great point. thank you both, next time you re on, first answer to you, i m out of time today. thank you both very much. president trump s attack on the media, reaching a new level, accusing journalists of causing war but members of his own white house are breaking with the president s message on that. the first person to survive alzheimer s disease is out there. and the alzheimer s association is going to make it happen by funding scientific breakthroughs, advancing public policy, and providing local support to those living with the disease and their caregivers. but we won t get there without you. join the fight with the alzheimer s association. it s a pea-protein, gluten-free pâté.gman? 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cnn s bill weir hit the road to find out. joining bikers from around the world at sturgis. it is an annual pilgrimage in sturgis, south dakota to get their view on president and the politics. watch. reporter: they rumble in from all points on the compass and for one week each summer this little town of 7,000 explodes to half a million. but this is one city that looks nothing like the rest of america. you can go hours without seeing a person of color and sturgis, a minority is a white guy on a foreign bike. there are no debates over gun control here or ethics of the me too movement. and there is no doubt who is the leader at this pack. you re a fan of the president, think he s doing a good job? he s doing a lot better than what obama did. reporter: this ghost rider reviews him self as john sands, a postal worker who rides up from kentucky each year and sees proof of trump s brilliance in the booming economy. they say it s the trump bump, people are feeling so good. reporter: rod woodruff says his campers have an average income of $95,000 a year. 70% are homeowners in the united states. lots of people own multiple motorcycles. we have a tattoo parlor up here. we ve got food and pizza and anything you want at the free access cross roads. very good. do you have your own jail? no, we don t need one. you don t need one. violence and arrests are incredibly rare for a crowd of this size. one reason is most folks share the same values and those that don t keep it to themselves. i see here in motorcycling is a microcosm for the whole country. get the feeling sometimes that people don t believe what s going on is right have become very quiet. i think there s a lot of h hypocrisy because i feel like everybody wants freedom and rights but god forbid somebody disagree with you, you ll get your head bitten off. reporter: a couple months back the president aimed at harley-davidson. the company shut down a factory in kansas city, laid off hundred workers and said because of the tariffs they would have to start production in a new country overseas which begs the question, is this the ultimate loyalty test for his base? do these folks pledge allegiance to the president or hall harley-davidson? i have to go with what makes america better. if harley wants to go somewhere else, i ll choose different bikes. i love the man, think he s doing a wonderful job. reporter: despite the president s disdain for my profession, they could not be nicer. do i strike you as an enemy of the people? not at all. we re sure glad to have you here. reporter: no amount of earnest reporting will change their minds. because if you look at russia and the mueller investigation and there s a lot red flags and dark clouds. that s usually a lot of politicians but one they are picking on because he s on the outside. if you look at the clintons how come they can do things and no one else can. i m old enough to remember when the base loved harley davidson and hated russia. it seems it flipped a little bit. i don t think there s any reason to call him out or try to be friendly with anyone. if they don t want to be friends, it s a whole other story. even vladimir putin, a dictator, a murderer? he met with kim jong-un as well. fake news. we all know it. touch me. touch me. donald j. trump. he ll tell you. reporter: back downtown our presence sparks a debate between some fox news fans from texas and bonnie from nebraska. they don t know what they re talking about. i go either way. which proves we live in a media age where people can choose their own facts. i have a friend who is very much and i go, uh-huh, i agree with you. no problem. everybody has their own opinion. that s true. it s like a [ bleep ]. everyone has one. as long as we don t start shooting each other, right? then the heckling is interrupted from a hero falling from the sky. sergeant dana bowman, an army golden, lands, and it feels like we are all in this together. incredible reporting, as always, from our bill weir. thank you for that. ahead, the president calls the media the source of war. says the media causes war. our brian stelter is with me next. i don t keep track of regrets. and i don t add up the years. but what i do count on is boost®. delicious boost® high protein nuritional drink now has 33% more protein, along with 26 essential vitamins and minerals boost® high protein. be up for life. boost® high protein. the world is full of different hair. that s why pantene, the world s #1 conditioner brand, has conditioners for every hair type. from air-light foam for fine hair, to nourishing 3 minute miracle for thick and curly. and the moisture-infusing gold series collection. giving more women great hair days - every day. pantene. world s number one. conditioner brand. when we switched our auto and home insurance. with liberty, we could afford a real babysitter instead of your brother. hey! oh, that s my robe. is it? when you switch to liberty mutual, you could save $782 on auto and home insurance. and still get great coverage for you and your family. call for a free quote today. you could save $782. liberty mutual insurance. liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. it s the ford summer sales event and now is the best time to buy. man: (on tablet) preparing classic campfire trout. say what? trout. trout. alright. you don t think i need both? why does he have that axe? make summer go right with ford, america s best-selling brand. now get 0% financing for 72 months plus $1,000 ford credit bonus cash on a great selection of suvs. during the ford summer sales event, get our best offer of the season: 0% financing for 72 months plus $1,000 ford credit bonus cash. 0% financing for 72 months - anncr: as you grow older, -your brain naturally begins to change which may cause trouble with recall. - learning from him is great. when i can keep up! - anncr: thankfully, prevagen helps your brain and improves memory. - dad s got all the answers. - anncr: prevagen is now the number-one-selling brain health supplement in drug stores nationwide. - she outsmarts me every single time. - checkmate! you wanna play again? - anncr: prevagen. healthier brain. better life. wrong. it s just not true. we ve had a lot of wars over the time of history, and the press has not caused any of those wars. i do think it s true, poppy, that at least in one war the press was a definite cheerleader. and that goes back to the end of the 19th century, and when we had the famous newspaper rivalry between hurst and pulitzer and we went in and won. i think brian may disagree with this. i think we did too much cheerleading in advance of the iraq war. under president george w. bush. but in both cases, the press was cheerleading an existing administration. it was not causing a war. the explanation i just asked david irvin, brian, who worked and knows the president well, friends with him. worked as a campaign strategist with him. you know, and he said to me, yeah, i think this goes too far. but he also said, well, the president is talking about the fake news. and if you look at the full tweet, yes, the president wrote at the top, fake news hates me, they re the enemy of the people, blah, blah, blah, they can cause war. but come on. i mean, he points to all the major news networks and major newspapers. it s a very cynical strategy, trying to divide between good outlets and bad outlets. trump does this sometimes. it s bs, and it should be called out. i think we look at these tweets. think about what s different this time. it is changing. trump s tone is changing. it is getting worse. think about during the campaign. he would call us dishonest. then he started saying fake. then he started saying we re the enemy of the people. now he s using words like disgusting. using words like dangerous and sick. you know, that s dehumanizing language. that s the kind of language he also uses to talk about immigrants sometimes. it s trying to strip away people s humanity. and as david knows, that never ends well. look at the history books. that never ends well. sure. and david, when you look at, you know, the insults, we can take it, right? all journalists have thick skin. that s okay. what s not okay is language that could further a dangerous environment for journalists. i mean, brian, you ve pointed out katy tur, for example, pointing to threats against her, an nbc journalist. in your newsletter. so, i mean, at what point, david gergen, you know, do you get into the territory of making it dangerous for journalists? i think that we ve already entered a period of danger. and that is and it may get worse in the next few weeks. the president is using these rallies of his base to make the press the scapegoat. to make the press the punching bag. and the more he does that and goes after the press as, quote, the enemy of the people, a famous phrase that goes back to the french revolution when enemies of the people went to the guillotine. you know, that is whips up crowds. it makes it seem like when you strip, as i think brian has well said, you strip the press of its legitimacy and humanity. then there are going to be crazy people out there, especially in a culture with so many guns, who are going to be thinking about maybe i ll just take one of those guys out. we ve already seen that in annapolis. so i think this is as the president looks down the road, this white house looks down the road at a lot more allies, they ought to tone this down. and get back into a place of but who will mainstream relationship. but brian stelter, the president has shown no sign of backing off on this one, of reining it in on this one. no, he s raising the temperature. he s not lowering the temperature. and unfortunately, all of his friends, like anthony scaramucci and ivanka trump and kellyanne conway is saying hey, they re not the enemies he s not listening to them. he is doing this, because his back is up against the wall. because real news is so damaging to him. he s trying to tell his fans to only believe what he says. and thankfully, most americans
now on an arts twenty one special. an associate is an american with mexican roots she brings stories of immigrants to the screen. but i really strongly believe that that. once someone opens up and tells her story something changes and the. muslim who suffer is one of the very few movie directors from the softness of a man expression in the was the always have an idea that women in my country pressed me i don t feel it s true. that it is xan is an actor from turkey who s had enough of plain cliche roles. mostly their life stereotypical roles for me among. a lot of fun to finkel of belgium tackle some tough subjects through animation. the problem is puppets are very fragile so if you have moved them ten times you have to fix them right. kate on mayberg of the united states produces films that make no compromises if i have an opportunity to hire women i well because i believe in advancing our careers and sort of point people up. but also because i just like what was done such. how do all these women survive and get ahead in an industry where men separate. we talk with them at the twenty eight hundred but in our talents the band and film festivals platform for young filmmakers from around the world. really are so so i was born in the united states the daughter of mexican immigrants . my mom started cleaning houses she was a maid you know so like they ve sacrificed so much. for my sister and i to have a better life so for me i don t take it lightly to be a filmmaker. any of us films portray people at the edges of american society immigrants without legal documents and without hope. our story in but i said that they make work through the whole. system was fairly to me it is learning you better are racists day to day still where poorer than to scam you scare me though and it basically up very. early. in the windows. stay in it been. supported in. the filmmaker chronicled the pregnancies of two women one living in the united states illegally the other with an undocumented mexican husband it was the period just after donald trump s electoral college victory. after the election high. draft that there were vigil anti crips car and door to door in our neighborhood and my son was born and i was holding him in my arms and i lose her hiding my husband and the floorboards. the political tension right now in the us is really heavy and it s affecting people in very traumatic ways so. making a documentary about these kinds of issues is a way to allow the. these communities to express themselves and to have that platform. ileana is well acquainted with such stories she also has undocumented friends and relatives all possible texas where she grew up is right on the mexican border. growing up on the border for me is a constant inspiration and that landscape of the desert of the stillness of that is very much present in my work. in the us first feature child of the desert tells a story of personal loss the mother of a fallen american soldier encounters a young mexican man who has no papers. they are two of the many dispossessed and they help one another. good at the precinct i want to nominate. one of the. after traumas victory mexican immigrants came under pressure racism started coming out in the open and indiana began making documentaries. directing is really a privilege so for me crossing over to documentary is political because you re able to. give a platform for stories that people don t normally see. all over the in this. study ok. to see it out. and look out of them then on the get out both the source program must carry his thumb was me and. that. must i. cannot get out hank get along. with the n.s.a. . can i be at my doors any having. the reality is that it s difficult for a woman of color to make films it s still a very sexist and racist industry so. i think it s more difficult because sometimes you re not taken seriously trusting your gut knowing that you do have something to say i think that s that s the secret. of suffolk one of our moms very few women directors lives and works by the principle never stop believing in the power of your own cinematic vision. when i was a kid i always thought being a boy is very but then i changed the say. it s not necessarily to be among two. to be strong. like especially in the west they always have an idea that women in my country are pressed. i don t feel it s true because i grew up. in a house where my mom was stronger than my dad sometimes and my grandmother. for her final university project must not help with female gender roles what is a woman in the eyes of society. i am somebody. for. when they see me. only could read on my forehead. that time either of. chris thomas. or simply a ghost. in a club is a story of a woman with a vain where in a vain. thinkin or question herself before going to a scot a man s prosperous capital the other an impoverished zanzibar. the two brothers and two countries are connected by family and history. as a filmmaker must now strive to reflect a country s cultural diversity devoid of cliches. if you ll use. it towards my country towards the region where i come from. but how to support filmmaking and finance productions that don t fit existing definitions. for that it takes courageous producers like a can make back. the director has given birth to next performers now that tally. makes a statement and everybody you know and provocative sports documentaries not giving you anything right. now before it was charged with robbery possession and history go want to be like everybody knows make and won an emmy for this documentary about america s social realities. i ve got the tattoo for every feature i ve done and i like the idea that they ve changed me and so i want to mark each one with a physical change it s about a football team and so i got their team cheer tattooed on my ankle and a crown because that came. whenever she can get in makes it a point to hire women for her film projects. it s about she knows from experience what it means to try to make it in a male to male. i think one of the secrets to being successful as a female producer is to be constantly working to eliminate female from that description i m really excited about the idea that in the future i won t have to be actively hiring women in order to advance their careers because it will just be taken for granted that everyone is being judged on their merit. we also need cuts and patience especially now in the u.s. . inconvenient political topics as an adversary you know what the next and see all we are. it s a no holds barred documentary about a republican and trump supporter. it s fast and loose with the prices statements. those things that he said in our voice call him for the death of our president phone mag cow disease said that his wife i will post lady michelle looks like a man and she should go back to africa and play with it a role in the case for him to say something like that so freely. it caused me to become an angry black man. i tolerated a lot of things over the years but what i would never tolerate such bo-bo conscious disrespected hatefulness towards another human being simply because of the color of this pin. as a producer working in the time of trumpets just it s a little anxiety inducing because i m worried about we re watching the rights being taken away from group after group and i m sort of wondering when it s coming for us . to finance such films and also produces light entertainment shows for t.v. that s the reality of independent film very few can make a living from it. how many compromises do women have to make. twenty four year old at it is john is a turkish actor. she s had roles on award winning feature films but her bread and butter has long been shallow daytime serials. most of his stories are being told by male perspective. the ailing with. people older than forty fifty years old so they can be there i feel like i m being devalued by them sometimes i feel like. they don t really care about what i m thinking what i m saying. is given more acting freedom the characters she creates can be highly complex personalities non-conformist and vulnerable. my only sunshine was a. growing up solely of a young man. who lives in the lawless and why i meant and her rebellion against is bad for her. she s being hurt by her in my arm and by the people around her and she. she doesn t experience love . i don t see. i told him some. thank you it s one shelter. but. you cannot. get us. nobody. she tries to. run away from the world and like to go for her i feel like my political opinion might be more important and my skills. i am political person but in nowadays i have i don t feel myself there comfortable about. telling my political opinion in and publicly. at these i had the privilege i m like i m feeling myself being like you and proud that i could take part of these projects that also shows where i m standing what i m standing for. as she did and must time the story of five sisters who were too rebellious for rural turkey. and innocent game with some boys takes a disastrous turn. the understanding is that. our goals i looked up abused and forced into marriages. but they don t give up. it s none frenching examination of tucker society which under president at iran is drifting towards extremes masculine muslim i m assortments. this turkish french co-production was a change in many countries but in turkey it was of course highly controversial. and. i was feeling very powerful while we were shooting it like. as if we could. i think the control of the world you know. we could like bird then how. could. she. know. we can do more films and that s doesn t object why women pick them as subjects don t show them as victims but like as figures that they can speak up for themselves. for a long time that has not been the case. and an amazing lot of on the video takes things to extremes until they reach critical mass. yet. hear a woman is formed from modeling clay god makes her according to his own absurd ideas and. moving stories that raise disturbing questions not a has a own way of presenting them but the film questions of violence against women. and then there had happened a rape case in. which which had. disturbed me a lot so i wanted to make something about that. i was interested by the by standers effect which means that the more people are present in the situation of violence the less big the chance that someone will intervene. ignorance apathy and the fine cracks and how well oiled affluent society. laura expresses themes like these in a seemingly naive cinematic language which only makes the stories disturbing. in paradise refugees try to cross the mediterranean while overworked europeans travel to those very countries for a couple of weeks vacation. our paradise their how. can. you imagine the situation in which your puppets are in so for example a voice animating the moments of the puppets in the boats the refugee folks. you kind of imagine yourself in in this boat as well in these situations so i was thinking if i was in this boat together with these other people what would i do. but empathy carries a certain risk simple truths implied simple answers. there s something tricky about these. because you you there s the danger of becoming moralistic or cynical and that s a trap i want to avoid. they make uncomfortable films determined to go their own way but these women are still alone way from their destination. the weinstein scandal in the me too movement have set wheels in motion and these women filmmakers are helping to move. on his next film is a very personal one the story of a grandfather that will follow his footsteps from mexico to the united states financing projects like this is never easy but she s optimistic. this year is actually really promising to see for example the first female cinematography sume the first female cinematographer to be nominee for an oscar i mean it s amazing right but it s twenty eight teams. take wow big you know that should have happened years ago. but uses every opportunity to find an audience for have films festivals theaters and online but she d like much more. my i mean lives in my mom s house and she keeps asking for every to get a boyfriend so it would be really nice if his name could be oscar. caliber continues to pursue unconventional roles the next project is a vampire series set in istanbul produced exclusively for online viewing. government has less control in these platforms it s more free. and one x. film must know when they can be looking at amman s history this time focusing on the culture of the nomads. we have the right timing to create. were considering it s it s right time. lara s proper some venturing into real life and interacting with our world. is sometimes i want to change the world burqa melts so . i m aware of the slow. moving which i m doing but i think it s very good to to try model. subscribes to the band s know how to bring the a mental block list into the law be and not the be the leg. brace yourself with interior design channels on. the screen should split shifts just brand a mistake ghosts color icons of the. above what do we really know about samantha bee hunter guard. motivates him how does he think the feel good moments in the life of a great fashion designers. start september. w s. please repeat patient murderer. arsonist. the tyrant. the roman emperor nero. did he just get bad press. renowned historians are reexamining this case rethinking nero his history been unfair to be going from the emperor. starts august fourteenth on d w. where i come from we have to fight for a free press and was born and raised in a military dictatorship with just one to his shadow and a few newspapers with official information as a journalist i have worked with all the strength of many can trust and their problems are always the same fourteen source in ecology a lack of the freedom of the press. go up should we can afford to stay silent when it comes to the sounds of humans and see the my billfold who have decided to put their trust in us. name is jenny paris tonight large a d w. two
enter the a team. private eyes. there had been a brief encounter with a mysterious stranger. on the train coming home. she met this woman. did that hold the answer? she is talking about how someone has tried to assume her identity. a chilling case of a daughter in danger. strangers on a train. hello and welcome to date line extra. she was beautiful. talented and trusting and sometimes troubled. a young woman from a prem innoce prominent family. when the police were unable to find her. her family hatched a plan. to solve the mystery. here s keith morris son. it began in the great morning A young woman disappears, and a chance encounter with a stranger on a train may hold some answers. visa. a paperwork mixup sort of thing that would have sent her into a tailspin once, but now, the new kate vowed to try again later. boarded the palmetto for charleston and once home threw herself into college classes and a children s book she d been writing. big brother joe was, to say the least, encouraged. she when i talked to her was the happiest i can remember hearing her in the last ten years. she sounded good. she sounded as if she was ready, had a conviction about what she wanted to do. and then it was june. heat rising in charleston s deepening green. on saturday morning, june 13, tom waring at his summer house outside the city felt an absence. cell phone hadn t rung. no call from kate. kate who always called or texted her parents almost hourly. she always checked in and it was unusual. they d call the police. then when monday came, there was word. no, not from kate. from kate s bank. once i got off the phone with the branch manager, i called the police. yeah. what were you thinking then? i was thinking something is wrong. something was wrong, but could they discover what? and would the police help? i thought i m not going to put up with this. we ve got to get going. we ve got to get moving on this. friends, colleagues, gathered here are the world s finest insurance experts. rodney mastermind of discounts like safe driver, paperless. the list goes on. how about a discount for long lists? gold. mara, you save our customers hundreds for switching almost effortlessly. it s a gift. and jamie. -present. -together we are unstoppable. so, what are we gonna do? insurance. that s kind of what we do here. (door bell rings) it s ohey. this is amazing. with moderate to severe ulcerative colitis, are you okay? even when i was there, i never knew when my symptoms would keep us apart. so i talked to my doctor about humira. i learned humira can help get, and keep uc under control when other medications haven t worked well enough. and it helps people achieve control that lasts. so you can experience few or no symptoms. humira can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal infections and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened; as have blood, liver, and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure. before treatment, get tested for tb. tell your doctor if you ve been to areas where certain fungal infections are common, and if you ve had tb, hepatitis b, are prone to infections, or have flu-like symptoms or sores. don t start humira if you have an infection. be there for you, and them. ask your gastroenterologist about humira. with humira, control is possible. are you ready to take your then you need xfinity xfi.? a more powerful way to stay connected. it gives you super fast speeds for all your devices, provides the most wifi coverage for your home, and lets you control your network with the xfi app. it s the ultimate wifi experience. xfinity xfi, simple, easy, awesome. named ethan mack standing at the counter of a bank waiting to cash a check signed by kate waring. problem was her account barely totalled $100, and this check was for $4500, and the signature seemed off. the teller called kate s dad. he called police. i never met ethan, didn t know ethan s last name. all i knew was the name ethan who was a friend. it s too strong to say that she had a secret life, but she certainly had friends and did things that we didn t know anything about. of course she did. she was 28 years old. and even though she was financially and emotionally dependent on her parents, she had lots of friends. some they knew, some they didn t. it was howard gatts, for example, a martial arts trainer in the midst of a contentious divorce with whom kate had been carrying on something of a romance. i felt that in my heart something was wrong. and i was i was concerned. then there was jason locke, a young lawyer with whom she often shared lunch and a spirited debate. she was strong-willed. she was very energetic. she was rarely, rarely incorrect. that s a her best friend, as she made clear to all the others, was ethan mack. she really liked ethan. she really trusted him. this is my best friend, jason. she put a lot of trust in him. she s a lovable person, full of energy, always rambunctious. ethan worked in a local hotel. a very different background than kate. but he d been her best buddy for years and in a way her protector. everybody in ethan s neighborhood knew you didn t mess with kate when ethan was around. they loved each other like well, siblings. i made sure no harm would come to her when certain little boyfriends would act like they got hand problems. i would put them in their place it wasn t a romance at all then? never at all. she was like a little sister to me. it was a token of his family s regard for kate that she was godmother to ethan s nephew, malachi. on her moscow trip, kate bought herself and ethan matching brass bulldog key chains. and on that monday morning in june, said ethan, he was very worried about kate, just as he had been for years as he helped her battle her demons. calm her down and talking to her and understanding what was going on in the world of kate. but now he complained, here was kate s dad sending the police to talk to him about a check kate told him to cash. ethan explained to the cop, david osborne, about the money he d given kate for jewelry and other expenses and that the check was to pay him back. he was basically best friends with katherine, had been for several years. in fact, ethan told detective osborne he was very likely the last friend to see her before she disappeared. he said that he had saw her friday night, had dinner, had drinks, came back, dropped kate off back at her house. did he say what time? yeah. i think the time would have been probably around 11:30, 11:45 at that time. the detective checked, of course, and found text messages that confirmed what ethan told him. he even went to the house ethan shared with his mom. and they both let me in. and they both allowed me to search it. the mother and ethan both told me this is his room, this is where he stays. but to say that the instant suspicion on the part of the warings and the police was upsetting to ethan was probably an understatement. good evening, mr. waring and mrs. waring. this is ethan mack calling this is the voicemail he left for the warings after that policeman poked around his place as if he was some murder suspect. i think you need really check that and go find out or go see what really happened and find the person who did something to her and stop harassing me. cause the only thing i ever did was try to help her in a million ways. so dead end. the police moved past ethan, checked kate s cell phone record, found she d made a call late that friday that pinged on a tower in a place called james island, several miles from her house. but phone pings can be funny that way sometimes, they told the warings. one tower s busy, the next over picks it up. probably made the call from home, they said. they also promised to keep looking for her. but really kate was known to have gotten herself in and out of trouble a time or two, and police resources were limited. and well, tom waring got the cops message. we do not know for a fact that a crime has been committed here. after all, the warings were reminded, kate was a world traveler. could well have just picked up and gone back to russia. might be aboard some tramp steamer even now. she and kate had words. but at 8:00 p.m., a drugstore camera showed kate relaxed, talking on her cell, buying wine and snacks while waiting on her prescription refill. ethan paid for dinner. chicken, salmon teriyaki. like a japanese like kind of like cuisine-type thing. she didn t drive, so he took her home. dropped her off before midnight. something earlier that friday that bothered the warings at first was terrifying them now. the more they thought about it, the worse it seemed. just before she went to the drug store friday evening, she started telling her father about some problem. saying that she felt like she perhaps had unintentionally got herself in trouble. and i said, well, why don t you tell me about that. and she wouldn t tell me any details. was she clearly worried? she was concerned. clearly worried. about something. naturally they told the police about that. nothing came of it. and as the air thickened into a steamy august, the weeks that passed brought no new leads. just tourists clamoring for the cool shade of historic carriage rides. and kate waring, the urgency of finding her, began to fade. and that was driving me nuts. i thought, i m not going to put up with this. we ve got to get going. we ve got to get moving on this. and in the hushed cool of his perch overlooking the city, someone was listening. a new investigation begins. but it s not the police who are behind it. we re the cream of the crop, and our job was to find kate waring. not finding kate was not an option. who are these guys? when strangers on a train cons. continues or if you forgot your bike was on the roof rack, you only pay one deductible -instead of two- for a claim involving both your auto and home. and when you save that much, it s almost like it. never even happened. that s auto and home insurance for the modern world. esurance. an allstate company. click or call. you know how painful heartburn can be. for fast-acting, long-lasting relief, try doctor recommended gaviscon. it quickly neutralizes stomach acid and helps keep acid down for hours. relieve heartburn with fast- acting, long-lasting gaviscon. and helps keep acid down for hours. my gums are irritated. i don t have to worry about that, do i? 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as soon as we scratched the surface just a little bit, we were absolutely convinced that foul play was involved. savage was given just two mandates find kate waring, tell police everything you find. that last part, keeping the police in the loop, should be easy, figured andy, given the team he assembled. a band of retired policemen-turned-private eyes. each with a particular talent. bobby minter. bobby minter, human blood expert. tracking people his specialty. bill capps. bill capps, techno geek. tracks bad guys through cyber-space. happens to be a crack shot. james randolph. james randolph. ex-police department rebel. strategy his specialty. shaking things up a particular skill. we re the cream of the crop. and our job was to find kate waring. not finding kate was not an option. experience told james the best place to start was with kate herself. if we listen to kate, she ll tell us where she is. james went to the house on the battery, up the stairs, down the hall, and into kate s bedroom. these type cases, you have to take on the personality, and you have to see this person s world through their eyes. he sat there for a bit, looked around. the russian notes in kate s handwriting made sense, but why chinese paper money? and why was her brand-new prescription sitting there untouched? the medication in which she had gotten for a prescription was still on her dresser, unused. that medication was her lifeline. she needed it to counter depression, anxiety, insomnia. she never left home without it. meanwhile, cyber-sleuth bill capps buried himself in social media sites. kate used them. bill scoured them all. if she was awake, she was facebooking, she was texting, she was calling people on the phone, she was e-mailing. and at the time she went missing, when everything immediately ceased, i mean, that was completely out of character for her. using kate s friends, capps built an electronic map of her communications the friday night she vanished. from kate s friend jason locke, capps retrieved the weird voicemail left that evening. 10:06 p.m., missed call. voicemail. voicemail said that someone had stolen her identity, and had obtained a couple of credit cards in her name. she wanted me to sue the person responsible. the gym trainer and kate s romantic interest, howard gatts, told capps he heard from her about 10:30 p.m., still at dinner with ethan then. there was another call. it was after midnight. well after police believe she was dropped off at him. she told me she was at some friend s house. they had already made it to the house. she sounded a little buzzed. and then a very last message from kate. a text. very strange. i m off to greenville to pick up some lovely. whatever lovely was i had no idea, you know, and, i ll be back in a few days. did that make sense to you? no. be careful, he replied. but this time she did not text back. silence from kate. except the middle of the night, her cell phone pinged out on james island, miles from her home. the cops had surmised, remember, that a closer tower to her house may have been too busy to handle the call. but at 1:53 in the morning? not a chance, thought andy savage. just preposterous. they were looking for an explanation, plausible explanation, consistent with their theory that she voluntarily left. [ ringing ] that middle of the night call, by the way, was to her voicemail. the mailbox is full the voicemail box that had been jammed full once during which time she hadn t used it or called it at all. so the question why would she call voicemail? she would not be doing it. only one conclusion to draw. somebody else was using her phone. but where was kate now? had she as the one text suggested left town looking for drugs or lovely? if that s what lovely meant? for the moment, it was a dead end. and then then he called. eugene frazier, legendary 34-year homicide detective now retired. i believe that if a man commits a crime, he should be prepared to do the time. thing is about gene frazier, over here on charleston s james island where his ancestors go back to slave days, gene gets tips. all kinds of tips. and one day a church friend told gene he d heard the police had been to ethan mack s house. and something strange about that. said, listen, i don t think this is right, he says. ethan mack is living in an apartment that i have rented out to his father. but the police didn t search this place where ethan actually lived, said the landlord. they searched his mother s house on a different island miles away where ethan told them he lived. and he says, i think that he s trying to mislead the police. what did you think when you heard that? this guy got something to hide. and on that very day, gene frazier joined a band of ex-cops which, from now on, we ll call the a-team. a mysterious woman enters the picture. katie had this strange girl in the room with her. who was she? the a-team was about to launch a hidden camera surprise. when strangers on a train continues. are excited about the potential of once-weekly ozempic®. in a study with ozempic®, a majority of adults lowered their blood sugar and reached an a1c of less than seven and maintained it. oh! under seven? 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(vo) ask your healthcare provider if ozempic® is right for you. i never thought i d say this but i found bladder leak underwear that s actually pretty. always discreet boutique. hidden inside is a super absorbent core that quickly turns liquid to gel. so i feel protected and pretty. always discreet boutique. when heartburn hits. fight back fast with tums smoothies. it neutralizes stomach acid at the source. tum tum tum tum tums. smoothies. .and introducing new tums sugar-free. by the time andy savage put his a-team together to look for kate waring, that lovely young charleston woman had been missing two months. according to kate s parents, tom and janice, the charleston police were still saying this they think maybe she went somewhere. she s probably just up in greenville. what did you say to that? she doesn t have a car. how s she going to get there? it was after that when the a-team s gene frazier got a tip. kate s best friend ethan lied about where he lived. he didn t live where he allowed police to search. he really lived in one of two apartments five miles away which you presented to the police. yes. and? they didn t search the house. they never got a search warrant. they never asked for permission to search the house. they never said, hey, you misled us two months ago. but as the a-team discovered, ethan failed to mention something else, too. he had a girlfriend in this little place, a woman named heather angelica kamp. and when janice waring heard that, her mind went straight to an afternoon at home three months earlier. i heard voices upstairs. and so i went up, and katie had this strange girl in that i d never met before in the room with her. and that was her name, heather kamp. kate explained she met and rapidly became fast friends with heather on the train to palmetto during her trip down from washington. typical kate, janice thought back then. drawn to someone who needed help, who had told her a hard luck story. she said when she got on the train, her pocketbook was stolen. and she s here in charleston, and she doesn t have any money. and i m helping her out until she can whatever. but kate told her mother that heather would pay her back soon because she was a pediatric surgeon in charleston to take a new post at the local medical center. then a few days later, a distraught kate told her mother that heather s daughter back home in new jersey had been killed in a car accident. but something seemed odd about that, said janice. didn t seem like she was rushing to go up to new jersey to attend to the child that had been or that she was a grief-stricken woman. grief-stricken woman. she did not look that way at all. and now here was news that heather was living with kate s friend, ethan, in this tiny apartment. to me, she looked like a con artist. but no, said kate back then. janice had it all wrong. heather was nice. in fact, kate said she d introduced heather to her friend ethan and very quickly a romance had blossomed. they were even talking marriage. really? if janice waring was suspicious about heather back then, the a-team was doubly so now. sure enough a few key strokes on the internet told bobby that mother s intuition was right. she had been arrested for forgery in indiana. but she d been arrested in other states, too. essentially if you just googled her name, i suppose you could find out a fair amount. that s how i found her. she d been impersonating a doctor. i just googled her. and ethan wouldn t be her first husband. she had been married before and had four children. now that they knew about heather a few fuzzy details were suddenly clearer. the one thing the last dinner with ethan made more sense because there were three meals on the dinner bill. the other diner was heather kamp. and more important, that check ethan tried to cash, the one the teller flagged, maybe that was another heather forgery. right away, point man james randolph rushed that information over here to police headquarters. surely somebody here would put two and two together. a woman known to have committed forgery in indiana and other states, a so-called best friend who tries to cash a bogus check with kate s name on it and lies to police. seems like evidence these two were involved in her disappearance up to their necks. enough to haul them in anyway, but i was told that the story panned out. and that these were petty criminals, and the check was going to be taken separate from the missing person. what did you say to that? i just didn t think it was the right thing to do. we had to figure out who wrote and endorsed those checks, who signed and wrote the checks. sure. it was obvious the a-team would have to find the connection between ethan and heather and kate s disappearance without police help. sort of remained stealthy as much as possible. time to keep a careful, quiet eye on ethan mack and heather kamp. so gene frazier persuaded his church friend, ethan s landlord, to allow surveillance specialist bobby minter to tuck a hidden camera into the corner of the kitchen window. a camera trained right at ethan s front door. it was a motion detected just like the light that they ve got over the door is. when they drove in, it would light up, and it would light up for our camera. the whole camera itself, keith, was about the size of this little flashlight. it was pointed directly at the apartments. that s pretty slick. no doubt about it. and that s enough illumination to illuminate to see what they would be carrying. and that would lead us to know that they had something to do with kate s disappearance. and when ethan and leather left the apartment, bobby had that covered, too. he d already tracked ethan to his job at a local hotel and attached a gps locator on his car as it sat in the parking lot. now there was no minute of the day when the team didn t know where ethan and heather were and what they were doing. and almost immediately, they got a surprise. when ethan was at work, heather sneaked over to visit the man living next door. rode around town with him. they were going to the bank a lot. and i called one of the investigators of wachovia. as a result of that, they found that they were kiting checks. they were actually stealing money from the bank. despite what bobby told the bank, it never resulted in charges against anybody. but that wasn t all he discovered. the gps tracker on ethan s car led bobby to a couple of local pawnshops. pawning jewelry. the jewelry was a red flag to us. was it kate s jewelry? they couldn t be sure yet without more surveillance, that is. and then the landlord called gene again, another tip. this one bad. ethan and heather weren t paying rent. he says, i m going to evict these people. so after he said that this is not good news. i said, hold on. if these people are evicted, we don t know where they re going. if the a-team didn t think of something and fast, heather and ethan might slip out of their sight and charleston for good. an enticing offer from the a-team. 10,000 reasons to start talking. 10s, 20s, 50s. everybody sees that and their eyes just jump. -and we welcome back gary, who s already won three cars, two motorcycles, a boat, and an r.v. i would not want to pay that insurance bill. [ ding ] -oh, i have progressive, so i just bundled everything with my home insurance. saved me a ton of money. -love you, gary! -you don t have to buzz in. it s not a question, gary. on march 1, 1810 [ ding ] -frédéric chopin. -collapsing in 226 [ ding ] -the colossus of rhodes. -[ sighs ] louise dustmann [ ding ] -brahms lullaby, or wiegenlied. -when will it end? [ ding ] -not today, ron. you wouldn t accept an incomplete job from any one else. why accept it from your allergy pills? flonase sensimist relieves all your worst symptoms, including nasal congestion, which most pills don t. and all from a gentle mist you can barely feel. flonase sensimist. extra. returning to our story here again is keith morris son. the team of retired detectives searching for kate waring had a big problem. crime-solving 101 told them heather and ethan had to be serious suspects. the last people to see kate alive. one a known forger, the other on tape trying to take money from kate s bank account. but they were about to be evicted for lack of a rent payment. and if that happened, they would slip the invisible net the a-team had so carefully woven. mind you, we had the camera, we had the gps, we ve been tracking every movement that they have. so they made a call here to the quiet office overlooking charleston where the team s money man, john rivers, decided he d pay ethan s rent. secretly, of course. and it was a plan which after a little brainstorming offered a bonus, a built-in opportunity. here s how. the a-team wanted to know if heather or ethan forged kate s $4500 check, but they needed original handwriting samples. we determined what was on the check that we needed comparison samples to. and we had numbers, obviously, on the check. then the a-team helped ethan s landlord prepare ious that contained the numbers and letters. when ethan and heather signed the document, they provided the sample that could prove they forged kate s check. the team took the handwriting to mickey dawson, who set up the police handwriting lab. the question was simple did heather and/or ethan forge that check from kate, the one ethan tried to cash? immediately that day our handwriting document examiner said, that s them. no question about it. so if ethan and heather forged a check from kate, what else did they do? someone on the team needed to get a look inside that apartment. if kate had been there, there still might be evidence of something. but how to get in? well, the landlord has a right to inspect a tenant s homes for health and safety and welfare. and the landlord decided that he needed to go in and spray for bugs. you can understand why that might be done in that little place. james thought it would be best if he went with him to make sure that the bugs were all taken care of. surveillance expert bobby minter s gps device showed ethan s car was out somewhere. well, when we opened the door to go inside, ethan mack s sitting on the couch smoking a joint. for god s sakes. i m like, hell, with the exterminator, we re going to be using dangerous chemicals. you ll have to step out on the outside while we get this done. no idea who you were? no, no, no. you sure about that? absolutely. yeah. the exterminator and i went inside and closed the door behind us. just searched the apartment. and in one of the backpacks, in ethan mack s backpack, was some chinese money. chinese currency. chinese money? yes. just like the chinese bills james saw in kate s bedroom. janice waring had brought the bills to kate from hong kong, souvenirs. had ethan stolen them? time to stir things up. apply some pressure. bobby minter knew just how. bobby put on every telephone pole, every vacant house, every oak tree, every stop sign, wanted: information, missing person, kate waring s poster. where the people hung out. wherever they went, including on mack s windshield when he was working that day. we put posters to send a psychological message to them. but no response. at which point john rivers said perhaps what they do understand and on the street as it were is andrew jackson. and maybe benjamin franklin. and they would recognize their faces on a $20 or $50 bill. $10,000 worth of bills went into a grocery bag. 10s, 20s, 50s, and 100s. a bag with when you open it up, you know, two rolls and then everybody sees that. the eyes just jump. where better to leave that bag of money, they decided, than under the nose of the neighbor heather was going to see. the man named terry williams, the one who seemed to be kiting checks with her. we knocked on the door, and terry williams come to the door with no shirt on. uh-huh. no shirt on, short pants. terry, listen, we know you re great friends with these people, mack and kamp. you don t have to live in this condition. we know you re back on your rent. we know look at that bag of money. this could be all yours. now to close the sale with terry williams, they try to bluff. tell us what happened to kate and where we can find her. we know mack and kamp killed her. and this money could be yours. and at that point, that s when the side the bedroom door busts open, and there s a lot of yelling and screaming. to their other surprise, there came heather kamp. angrily and quickly pulling her clothes back together. didn t appear to be a business meeting the team interrupted. the detectives told her who they were and who they worked for. and then heather kamp gets on the cell phone and makes a call to ethan mack. and says, ethan, investigators are here trying to get terry williams to roll on us. and when she said that, the three of us looked at one another and police terms, we knew that was definitely the case. we knew, hey, they had done it. yes, decades of investigating made it perfectly clear to the a-team whatever happened to kate waring, ethan mack and heather kamp were in it up to their eyeballs. coming up we knew something was up. a new direction. the search for kate waring takes the a-team to a wild and desolate place. what would they find there? when strangers on a train continues. your mornings were made for better things than psoriatic arthritis. as you and your rheumatologist consider treatments, ask if xeljanz xr is right for you. xeljanz xr is a once-daily pill for psoriatic arthritis. taken with methotrexate or similar medicines, it can reduce joint pain, swelling, and significantly improve physical function. xeljanz xr can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal infections, lymphoma, and other cancers have happened. don t start xeljanz xr if you have an infection. tears in the stomach or intestines, low blood cell counts, and higher liver tests and cholesterol levels have happened. your doctor should perform blood tests before you start and while taking xeljanz xr, and monitor certain liver tests. tell your doctor if you were in a region where fungal infections are common, and if you have had tb, hepatitis b or c, or are prone to infections. xeljanz xr can reduce the symptoms of psoriatic arthritis. don t let another morning go by without talking to your rheumatologist about xeljanz xr. wimy dbut now, i take used rhtometamucil every day.sh it traps and removes the waste that weighs me down, so i feel lighter. try metamucil, and begin to feel what lighter feels like. that s when it hit home. kate was the latest of hundreds of people still lost in south carolina. and it seemed to janice and tom that police weren t taking cases like theirs seriously. so what about all those other families also desperate for help? the warings held a vigil to make common cause. somehow or another, somebody will be moved and want to come forward and tell us where katie is. that was the public waring family. at home the private tom waring couldn t help but be drawn back to the play-back button on the voicemail. just to hear her voice. dad, mom? if you re there, pick up the phone. if you re there, pick up the phone. call me back later. bye. i would look at photographs of her or play those voicemail messages, just keeping her voice current in my mind. meanwhile, andy savage s a-team of ex-detectives was making progress. when they flashed that fat grocery bag of cash around the neighborhood, they certainly got a rise out of ethan and heather. a furious ethan called andy. your investigators are out here. they re accusing me of being involved in this homicide. kate was my best friend in life. as he s on the phone, kamp calls. she starts out in this rage about, you know, what are you doing out here, accusing me of this, we had nothing to do with that. fascinating reaction, thought andy savage. and perhaps an opportunity. we had done a lot of background on kamp. and so we knew her and we knew her personality. we knew a little about what buttons to push. so the reaction we had toward heather was one of comfort. not one of angst. and during that time, we planted the seeds that as a mother she must know the feeling of janice waring missing her daughter and tried to apply to her empathy for a mother. the call from heather wasn t all that fat bag of money accomplished. before long, it reeled in a fish. that neighbor heather was sneaking off to see called, too. the a-team went to talk to him. and he said, i know ethan and heather did something to kate. and terry went in the back room, came back out, and had this ipod. and terry said, i believe this ipod is going to belong to kate. now that was huge. the last time kate was seen with that ipod it was at the gym the day she went missing. now a man kate never met said heather gave him the ipod days after kate disappeared. just to be sure this was, in fact, kate s ipod, tech expert bill capps got the serial number. and within minutes had the proof. i examined the registry files from all the computers that we had access to that kate had used in the past. we knew proof positive that that was kate s ipod. coming up she said, well, they didn t find her, did they? i knew they wouldn t find her? hi! how was your day? it was good. it was long. let s fix it. play connection by onerepublic. (beep) these days, my waves get lost in the ocean seven billion swimmers man i m going through the motions sent up a flare need love and devotion trade it for some faces that i ll never know notion can i get a connection? can i get can i get a connection? can i get a connection? can i get can i get a connection? gives skin the moisture it needs and keeps it there longer with lock-in moisture technology skin is petal smooth after all, a cleanser s just a cleanser unless it s olay. the a-team told the police about the ipod and also handed over the handwriting expert s report showing that heather and ethan forged kate s check two days after she vanished. and now things started happening fast. after her heart-to-heart with andy savage, heather made a remarkable decision. she called the charleston police department and confessed. no, not to murder. instead, she said it was she who forged the bogus check supposedly signed by kate waring. and ethan who tried to cash it two days after kate disappeared. now surely the police would swoop in and arrest them both. but here s something you should know about the way it worked between the a-team and their former colleagues, the cops. the deal was entirely one way. that s to say the a-team told the cops everything they uncovered. the cops told the a-team nothing. so they kept their ears to the ground, waited for something to happen, but they didn t have to wait for long. we knew something was up. and so first thing we did was yanked the gps off the car because we didn t want the police to seize the car and have our gps. ethan was easy enough for the charleston police to find. they arrested him at his hotel job. but they didn t seem to know where to find heather. so we had to tell them where she was working. obviously, they didn t have a surveillance on her. so you could tell them that. we told them. we told them where heather kamp was working. i mean, we the gas station she s working at the sunoco gas station. i walked into the gas station, bought a pepsi and paid for it. and the police officer in uniform had pulled up. he was peeping around the corner of the building. i said, that s her inside. ethan and heather were charged with forgery and obstruction of justice for the murder charge following shortly. we get a call from of course we do have friends still at the police department. we get a call that, hey, the police are searching the island for kate waring s body. the island, wild, beautiful, isolated and 20 miles from kate s home on charleston s battery. so i got in my car and drove out to the island. and there were the police. a serious search going on. so i sat there in the shade and watched them all afternoon. didn t attempt to interview. interfere. watched police officers and cadaver dogs. ton of folks. the cops brought heather here to lead them to kate waring s body. there were a couple of detectives knew. i asked them, any luck? they said no and continued driving on. police called off the search, drove heather back to jail. had she intentionally given them bad information? perhaps nobody would find kate, not the police, not the a-team, and then we got a terrific break by the criminal justice system. mack and kent both came to the bond hearing and it s done by video. at the bond hearing, mack shows up with his family. yeah. who were all there to support him. and not only a public defender but the chief public defender. wow. kent has no one. she has no family. she has no friends. she has no support to speak on her behalf. yeah. i immediately said, james and jean, go see her. treat her with kindness. treat her with caring. and within minutes, the same men who had so upset heather with their bag of money were face-to-face with her. what was the look on her face when she came out? she was surprised. stunned. stunned. very surprised. and i said, heather we need your help here. all we want is the body. and she said, well, they didn t find her, did they? she said, i put them through the test. they told me they were going to help them. they wouldn t arrest me. and the minute i told them the area which she was, the general area where she was, they got all abusive with me, you know? they berated me. so they failed the test. and just at that moment, what happened was, well, sheer luck. directly across the lobby on the male side of the visitation area, they brought to see his attorneys who happened to arrive the same time we did. just coincidentally? coincidental. also coincidentally, the jailers positioned ethan and heather across the hallway from each other separated by glass partitions. they could see each other? oh, yeah. there s the detective there with her. she s over there ratting you out. she s waving trying to get ethan s attention. so she snaps and she breaks. with a little more encouragement from andy savage, that is. his deal, if heather told him exactly where to find kate s body and if it turned out she had nothing to do with any murder, andy would help her with her forgery charges. and at that moment, heather kamp agreed to tell the a-team what they needed to know. her directions were precise. they drove out here right away. that s the large oak tree she described. then she says, if you look farther up to the left in the marsh, you ll see a dock that is running down to the water. and she says, after you do that, you ll look to your left, over here on my right and left, and you ll see some underbrush growing. and she said, that s kate s remains she didn t say the body, is 5 feet from this roadway. incredibly detailed. just the sort of place to leave a body. but, just like the police, the team found nothing. i was very disturbed. why are we not finding her? because we were we were convinced she was here. they searched until darkness finally forced them out of the marsh and then they called andy savage, who was out of town on business. they re on a cell phone from where they are. i m in a hotel in boston. i punch up the address on google earth. i m looking at the satellite imagery of where they are. i said, well, james, is there a dock off to your left? so i was pretty well able to identify where they were. i said, what you got to do is just print that off. isn t that amazing you can do that from thousands of miles away? you can also do it from the police station. the google map clearly showed the a-team exactly where and how they lost the trail. after investigating so much, savage wasn t ready to give up on heather. but he wasn t naive either. we knew that she was a sociopath liar. i wanted something specific from her. give me something that nobody else knows so that we can believe what you re saying is truthful. that s when she told us about the souvenirs from kate s body, the jewelry she was wearing and where it was located. they found kate s jewelry at a pawnshop. behind their dresser in the tiny apartment, kate s old dog key chain, the one she had gotten in moscow. ethan said heather took it from kate s purse as a memento. she was telling the truth. armed with andy s google map and more details from heather, they would return to the island. what we were believing was coming to fruition. all of our suspicions about her activity and mack s activity, at that point we knew we had the right people. one thing, they d be going without the police. good idea? maybe not. coming up the a-team under arrest? what do you mean you were arrested? we were not free to leave. they made that clear. this was a twist even they didn t see coming when strangers on a train continues. year, i am sorry about that. [music playing] (vo) progress is in the pursuit. audi will cover your first month s lease payment on select models during summer of audi sales event. gene frazier shared a car from the city. they rode in silence most of the way, confident the precise directions heather kamp had given them were correct this time. so this was it. it was somehow fitting that bobby, the one they called the human bloodhound, was the first to spot her. i saw what looked like an animal path. where animals or something had pretty much beat down the bush. so i walked up to the animal path and started walking parallel with the road. and walked up, and i saw what looked like bones. and i said, i think i found her. i said, hey? hey, y all, come here. i think i found her. it was just like a ton of bricks came off me at that point. i said, oh, my god. there she is. you know, wasn t much left. just bones. in the end it took only six minutes to find the earthly remains of kate waring. and thus, at last, fulfilled their promise to her parents. i saw where bobby was standing, and i took two shots with my camera just to document the scene the way it was when we saw it. then i just backed out of the woods, and bobby followed me out. we called 911. 911, what s the nature of your emergency? yes, ma am, this is robert minter. okay, you need police, fire, or ems? police. what s the address? no address. it s in the woods. we found a body of kate waring. you believe you found the body of kate waring? yes. i know we did. in the woods? yes. listen to what happens after bobby hangs up. the 911 recording continues [ ringing ] you can hear the operator spreading the word around to other officers, a bit skeptical that the four-month-long mystery is finally solved. hello? hey, sarge. you ready for this? no. this guy is adamant that he found kate waring in the woods off of polly point road. off of where? polly point road. wadmalaw island. all right. why is he adamant? he says he knows it s her. out on the island off polly point road, the trio of former cops instinctively revert to the long practiced standard procedure. we said, okay, let s secure the crime scene, back out, wait for law enforcement to get here. so far, so good. but what happened next was quite a surprise. the first officer was a charleston county deputy. and i said, we ll show you where the remains are. took him out there and said, it s your crime scene now, and we re backing off. and that s what we did. but that wasn t the end of it, was it? no. no. we were detained, to put it mildly. detained? detained, placed in separate police cars. what do you mean you were arrested or well, very strictly i guess by the legal definition, we were not free to leave. they made that clear. and, one, we couldn t leave because they took my they seized my car. but wait a minute. you found the body and showed them where it was. that s correct. they wanted a statement from us as to everything that we had done from the very beginning. not just what we had done that day. the whole, long story? that s basically what they were asking for. and in fact, they had been given the story along and along as it occurred. hours later the ex-detectives were finally released. but not bill capps car. didn t get that back until they filed motion papers for an injunction. even now, years later, the memory still rankles all of them. 34 years in the police department. to sit in the back of a police car and have some guy question you, get you to take a statement. that s right. like a criminal. that s what we were sitting in the back of a car like a criminal. let s call it like we see it. still, this was it. the news traveled to the house on the battery. the warings fell from their anxiety and into grief. mixed emotions. relief that she s been found, but at the same time, devastating grief that now you have conclusive evidence that your only daughter is dead and that you re never going to see her again. and then as soon as they were allowed after the crime scene tape came down, after all the evidence was taken away, the whole team assembled at the spot where kate lay hidden for so long. all except tom waring, who did not want the image burned in his brain, the dismal place the love of his life lay dead. but perhaps it was a mother thing. janice had to be here, she said. had to see it. it helped me to see for myself it was so remote. we wouldn t have found her in a million years. and not knowing where she is, i mean, it s just it would have been horrible. they formed a circle, held hands around the place they knew she had been. one of the investigators is a deacon in his church. and he said a prayer. this beautiful water, marsh, and docks. i think it might have given mrs. waring some peace thinking, you know, at least she wasn t in a garbage dump somewhere. it was a peaceful place, you know, god s place. now the a-team had done its job, and kate s killers could finally be brought to justice. or so you d think. but the mystery, the web that was spun on that train down from washington was far stranger, more bizarre than you have so far heard. and justice? well, we shall see. coming up they thought they solved the case, but would it stick? actual evidence, it just wasn t there. and the close call that just might have saved kate waring s life. if i could have hung on one more month i could have helped them get her. when strangers on a train continues. new customers bundle and save big, but now it s time to find my dream abode. -right away, i could tell his priorities were a little unorthodox. -keep going. stop. a little bit down. stop. back up again. is this adequate sunlight for a komodo dragon? -yeah. -sure, i want that discount on car insurance just for owning a home, but i m not compromising. -you re taking a shower? -water pressure s crucial, scott! it s like they say location, location, koi pond. -they don t say that. it s like they say location, location, koi pond. sfx: [cell phone dialing] no. no, no, no, no, no. cancel. cancel. please. aaagh! being in the know is a good thing. that s why discover will alert you if your social security number is found on any one of thousands of risky sites. moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis was intense. my mom s pain from i wondered if she could do the stuff she does for us which is kinda, a lot. and if that pain could mean something worse. joint pain could mean joint damage. enbrel helps relieve joint pain, and helps stop further damage enbrel may lower your ability to fight infections. serious, sometimes fatal events including infections, tuberculosis, lymphoma other cancers, nervous system and blood disorders and allergic reactions have occurred. tell your doctor if you ve been someplace where fungal infections are common. or if you re prone to infections, have cuts or sores, have had hepatitis b, have been treated for heart failure or if you have persistent fever, bruising, bleeding or paleness. don t start enbrel if you have an infection like the flu. since enbrel, my mom s back to being my mom. visit enbrel.com. and use the joint damage simulator to see how joint damage could progress. ask about enbrel. enbrel. fda approved for over 18 years. need a change of scenery? the kayak price forecast tool tells you whether to wait or book your flight now. so you can be confident you re getting the best price. giddyup! kayak. search one and done. kamp practically leapt at a deal to turn state s evidence against ethan to plead guilty to murder in exchange, her krecredibilitys you ll soon seize, was not exactly aaa. and despite all the information the a-team uncovered, what could be used in court was thin. i mean, frankly, we didn t have a lot of evidence. we had a lot of opinions, and we had a lot of conjecture. but actual evidence, it just wasn t there. kate s skeletal remains gave the solicitor none of the forensic evidence that juries like to see. and the coroner was unable to establish even a cause of death. as for those personal items of kate s that they found in ethan s apartment, those could just have easily been gifts. the two were supposedly best friends after all. and to top it off, there was the amazing tale that came with the state s star witness, heather. it s true she helped the warings investigators found kate s body and agreed to testify against a man she revealed she actually married soon after the crime. but heather was also, as ethan s lawyer was discovering, a gray grade-a, world-class liar. not only was she a drifter. this was a true con artist with just the most horrid background of anyone i d ever seen. i mean, a true sociopath. david ada was certain that heather kamp back on that trail from charleston to palmetto took one look at kate waring and knew she d found her ideal next mark. why was he so sure? his research, he said, had turned up enough kamp victims to fill a small bus to the poorhouse. we had 13 different names that we could use. we called all 13. whoa. these were men and women all over the country. she would say that, you know, she was pregnant, she would say that her children had died of leukemia, that men had beat her. her scam troll the internet for men, latch onto one, move in, fleece him, and leave him with a mountain of debt. all the while pretending to be a doctor, an heiress or the daughter of a mafia-style drug family. that was probably the worst whirlwind i ve ever been through, seen, done in my entire life. there was chris beard, for example, in pennsylvania. just being around her made me feel better because that s what i wanted, you know? i wanted to be loved. he found her on the internet. in less than two months, they were engaged and she said she was pregnant. at the time that i had met her, i had no credit cards to my name whatsoever. she persuaded him, he said, to get 15 cards which she maxed out, leaving him $33,000 in debt. by the way, she told chris sister-in-law, lori that she was a pediatric burn specialist and that she had worked with children. that was her specialty. and as lori had been having some behavior issue with her daughter, heather gave the girl a blood test. see if, you know, there was anything wrong with her. and she said, i want you to know that your daughter s bipolar. but it was odd. how would she know based on a quick blood test whether or not her daughter was bipolar? and why would heather use her own diabetes kit for the test? lori hit the internet just to check out the woman who was playing doctor with her child. and found that, you know, she actually was a wanted felon. so she called the cops who arrested heather in the act of spending more of chris money. but somehow heather slipped off the hook. though lori pressed charges and pushed hard for a prosecution, nobody followed through and lori eventually gave up. lives with the guilt now. i think it was a month or so after i gave it up, that s when she came to d.c. and she had met kate. and i always feel if i could have hung on one more month, i could have have helped them get her. now as she prepared to defend ethan, david aler was feeling much better. his client s chief accuser, it appeared, was a practiced con artist. would any jury believe her? ethan might be naive, but his story, after all, had never changed. they had gone to dinner, he, kate and heather. after they went to dinner, he dropped kate back off at her parents home here in downtown charleston and spoke with her a couple times via text message that night. and he didn t talk to her again after that. so it was all on heather. and with her as ethan s chief accuser, how could any jury convict him? but just days before the trial was to start, solicitor scarlett wilson finally uncovered something the case lacked. a clear motive. she found it, she said, in letters kate wrote to her friend just before she disappeared. she s talking about how someone has tried to extend her credit limit or has tried to assume her identity and mess with her money in her bank. and she was livid. and i think kate was threatening to get her father involved. that was a new dimension. sure. for heather kamp. i mean she didn t need katie as an enemy. and i have no doubt katie confronted heather kamp with that. and that, the prosecutor said, is when heather kamp and ethan mack decided they had to keep her from talking. kate waring had to die. he began to make the choice to join in the scam to rip off kate waring. finally, the prosecutor scarlett wilson felt ready. and almost a year to the day after kate was found she launched the trial of ethan mack. the sole defendant in the courtroom. heather having taken the plea agreement. the warings tried to prepare themselves, though what they saw defied preparation. we had to see images and see what it was like when they found her and then go through all the forensics. and we were seeing that for the first time along with the jurors and all those other spectators in the courtroom. one by one, the a-team took the stand, as did detectives and experts from the charleston police department, to present the evidence. over a stupid forgery. prosecutor wilson told the jury that ethan and heather killed kate to avoid getting caught for forging kate s checks and using her credit cards. then heather took the stand and told the jury it was ethan, not her, who lured kate to their tiny apartment, then smothered her, shocked her with a taser, drowned her in the bathtub, and dumped her body out on wadmala island because he thought no one would ever find her there. so, did you think that you convinced that jury? i thought that the trial went better than i ever could have hoped. except, that is, for two things one, would the jury believe ethan actually killed his best friend, kate? and two heather kamp s a liar. heather kamp s jealous of kate. heather kamp s the one stealing. but heather s testimony did seem to terrify one person. ethan mack himself. and it showed. when he was in the courtroom waiting for the jury to come back, we have that picture of him. what was happening with your client? at that point, you know, true fear. you know, true fear. i could really see it. what hold did heather have on this man? did the jury, did anybody have this crime figured out? coming up please raise your right hand. a surprise from the jury and another one from ethan mack s mom. he got very confrontation on. basically his mother said, there s more to this story. and you need to tell it and you need to tell it right now. when strangers on a train continues. with chantix. i tried cold turkey, i tried the patch. they didn t work for me. i didn t think anything was going to work for me until i tried chantix. chantix, along with support, helps you quit smoking. chantix reduced my urge to smoke. i needed that to quit. when you try to quit smoking, with or without chantix, you may have nicotine withdrawal symptoms. some people had changes in behavior or thinking, aggression, hostility, agitation, depressed mood, or suicidal thoughts or actions with chantix. serious side effects may include seizures, new or worse heart or blood vessel problems, sleepwalking or allergic and skin reactions which can be life-threatening. stop chantix and get help right away if you have any of these. tell your healthcare provider if you ve had depression or other mental health problems. decrease alcohol use while taking chantix. use caution when driving or operating machinery. the most common side effect is nausea. i can t tell you how good it feels to have smoking behind me. talk to your doctor about chantix. extra. i m craig melvin. ethan mack awaited a jury verdict. would they find him guilty of murdering his best find kate waring or would they set him free? and what about the stranger kate waring met on a train, heather kamp? here again is keith morrison. you just never can tell how a jury will react to the fact of a complicated murder case or the accusations of a person like heather kamp. ethan mack cooled his heels while his jury tried to decide if he did or did not smother, beat, taser and drown his best friend, the woman he claimed was like a little sister to him. and then after 14 interminable hours, they trooped back into the courtroom and told the judge they could not decide whether or not ethan was guilty of murder. what i m going to do is on the murder charge, i m going to declare a mistrial on that. mistrial, a hung jury. huge letdown. right. it wasn t going to be over. it wasn t going to end. we were going to possibly have to relive that whole event again. as she packed up her file, solicitor scarlett wilson vowed to find justice somehow. and then quite unexpectedly, there was an intervention from a surprising source. it was ethan mack s own church-going, no-nonsense mother. she had testified during the trial for her son, of course. gave a hint then of what she was made of. corrine mack dean, d-e-a-n. ethan s sort of a mama s boy, isn t he? yes, he is. do you know anything about your son having any involvement with kate waring s murder? no. if you did, would you stand here today and support him? he d know i d turn him in. then as ethan s mother sat through the rest of the trial, she heard things. she knew her son. she knew when he was hiding something. so she went to see him in jane. ethan s attorney heard it all. so it did get loud in that cell when they were talking. it got very confrontational. basically his mother said, there s more to the story, and you need tell it. you need to tell it right now. his mother wanted him to tell the truth and tell what happened. so it was decided. soon after ethan and his mother had their talk, he appeared before the judge and admitted he did participate in the murder of his good friend kate. he agreed to plead guilty to voluntary manslaughter in exchange for a 25-year prison sentence. you understand that the court still treats this as a guilty plea. yes, ma am. and that your criminal record will reflect it as a guilty plea? yes, ma am. of course, since heather pleaded guilty to murder and forgery and obstruction of justice, they didn t need a trial for her either. guilty but mentally ill, by the way. at her sentencing, her attorney her therapist told the judge that she developed after a deeply traumatic childhood psychological disorders. some of which rendered her incapable of separating truth from her elaborate fictions and led to her years of failed marriages, abandoned children, and constant drifting. if heather was hoping for a shorter prison term because of that, she didn t get it. instead, solicitor scarlett wilson noted she continued to lie about important details after she made her deal to testify. because she broke the deal, the sentence, 39 years. 14 more than ethan. this was heather kamp s kill. while certainly ethan mack was involved and certainly he laid his hands on kate, i do not believe that but for heather kamp we would be here. still, said andy savage after the fact, solicitor wilson could have had a much stronger case had the charleston police acted more aggressively. just one example, when police arrested ethan and heather because of their own incompetence, they released the property, the crime scene where the homicide took place, they turned it back over to the landlord without examining. the landlord went in and vacated the premises. he took all their furniture out and put it in storage. cleaned the place. cleaned the place. it wasn t until over two weeks later, knowing that the property had already been tainted, the crime scene was destroyed. no wonder scarlett wilson didn t have all the ammunition she d have liked, said andy savage. the charleston police said they didn t see it quite that way. they did take the case of kate waring very seriously, they said, right from the beginning. and the second-guessing from the a-team was rather puzzling. at least according to captain thomas robertson. i m surprised. i really am. i think we both did a fabulous job, and i think the team of detectives that i had working from this agency and the support that we had is it was fantastic. what may have looked like inaction, said detective david osborne, was actually a careful and thorough investigation. one that didn t leave out any possibility. was there some point at which you thought this girl has she s probably dead? she s come to some serious harm? early on. early on? how many days after would you say? i would say that i mean, within that first week for sure. yeah? so you knew it was a murder investigation at that stage. no. i mean, it could have been an overdose. it could have been an accidental death. i think we felt like we were probably dealing with a death investigation. right. but neither tom nor janice waring was the least bit satisfied. hadn t the police suggested early on that kate may simply have skipped town on her own? it didn t seem to the warings that they were trying very hard to find her. and what about all those other families of missing people, they asked? families without the resources to hire an a-team? unfortunately, missing people are low on the priority list nationwide. i feel like that a missing person or missing child should be just as important as a bank robbery because lots of people never find out what happened to their child. it was late, after midnight, when she came to the end of her story. ushered there by two people she believed to be good friends of hers. and nobody, not the warings, not the a-team, not the police, has heard the story you are about to hear. the competing stories of the last hours and minutes of kate waring s life. question is, whose story will you believe? her long-time friend, the uncle of her godson? or the charming grifter, the woman who played with fate on the train? coming up heather versus ethan. i had a big conscious and he doesn t. he doesn t have a conscience. who really was behind kate waring s death? two very different tales. wen strangers on a train continues. if you use some of these moves way too often. then you might have a common condition called dry mouth. which can be brought on by many things, like medication and medical conditions. biotène provides immediate, long lasting relief from dry mouth symptoms. it is clinically proven to soothe and moisturize a dry mouth. plus, it freshens breath. biotène. immediate and long lasting dry mouth symptom relief. returning to strangers on a train. the trial was over. the killers in jail. but it was not the end of the story. in fact, there were two sharply different tales about the last hours and minutes of kate waring s life. you re about to hear the first. once again, keith morrison. they call it the palmetto, the train that glides down the eastern seaboard. eight hours from washington to charleston. fine setting to meet a stranger. sat in the same seat? sat in the same seat. laughed. we were joking the whole way. started talking. heather kamp, freshly supplied with jewelry and cash from her last mark, just by chance found herself sitting with a young woman wearing jewelry and perhaps with access to such cash as heather had never seen before. what did you see in her? why did you like her? she was funny. very funny. now sitting here in jail, heather claimed she came to see kate not as her next victim but as a friend. and when in charleston she professed her love for kate s buddy, ethan mack, and then eventually married him, that love was true, too, so she says now. and when she told them both all those well-practiced lies about being a doctor, about her husband and child being killed in an accident, et cetera, et cetera, those stories, she says, were just part of the schtick of, she admits it, of a con artist. that s what i do. that s who i am. that s the way i ve learned how to survive. but remember, in court, the prosecutor called heather the mastermind who lied to con kate, lied to manipulate ethan. lied about murder. you were the decisionmaker, you were the person who caused kate s death. i don t take it as that. stole from her, yes. but kill kate? no. heather kamp will not cop to that. instead, this was the story the grifter had for us. it was all ethan right from the start. my husband wanted to rip her off because she had money. but wait, why would ethan want any harm to come to his good friend kate? the trouble was is that ethan never considered her a friend. not a friend of hers at all? no. not like a sister or no. he was babysitting her and she became a problem for him. became a real problem, says heather, when kate found out that she and ethan were stealing from her. she was like, i m going to put you guys in jail. and that scared ethan. and the whole nightmare began that night because he was not going to go to jail. so you re saying ethan was the mastermind, not you? yes. yes. and so after dinner that last night, said heather, they took kate back to their apartment. ethan got her a little high. after a couple of drinks, she was in a very good mood. there was a big suitcase on the floor. ethan dared her, says heather, get in. she did. didn t see the taser he was holding. he starts tasing her and doesn t stop. and by the time he removed the taser, she s not moving inside the suitcase at all. he races into the bedroom, grabs a pillow off the bed, comes back in. pushes me away, unzips the suitcase, takes the pillow, compresses it over her mouth, grabs the wine bottle that is maybe four feet away, takes the wine bottle, crack, crack. i think maybe it s three times he hits her. he tells me to go inside the bathroom, start the water. she was terrified, she says. did you say, ethan, stop? i didn t say anything. didn t say anything at all? i didn t know what to do. i could hear him screaming, help me! and there was nothing i could do. of course she hides when she told ethan she was pregnant, but that was for her own safety. i thought if i m carrying his kid, i m okay. he s not going to try to hurt me. really? and so then a moment later when asked why she didn t just leave ethan, slip away like she always did, she reverses herself. i didn t want to. i really loved him. and eventually she says she just had to confess. conscious is a bitch and i had a big conscious. and he didn t. and that s the truth. every single word. (door bell rings) it s open! hey. this is amazing. with moderate to severe ulcerative colitis, are you okay? even when i was there, i never knew when my symptoms would keep us apart. so i talked to my doctor about humira. i learned humira can help get, and keep uc under control when other medications haven t worked well enough. and it helps people achieve control that lasts. so you can experience few or no symptoms. humira can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal infections and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened; as have blood, liver, and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure. before treatment, get tested for tb. tell your doctor if you ve been to areas where certain fungal infections are common, and if you ve had tb, hepatitis b, are prone to infections, or have flu-like symptoms or sores. don t start humira if you have an infection. be there for you, and them. ask your gastroenterologist about humira. with humira, control is possible. -we re in a small room. what?! -welcome. -[ gasps ] a bigger room?! -how many of you use car insurance? -oh. -well, what if i showed you this? -[ laughing ] ho-ho-ho! -wow. -it s a computer. -we compare rates to help you get the price and coverage that s right for you. -that s amazing! the only thing that would make this better is if my mom were here. what?! an unexpected ending! evil lying type of person that could do anything she can to basically get her way. of course, it was different when kate brought heather around to see him that first time. she talked talked, told him all kinds of things. she told me her son died from a disease that she was trying to help find the cure for? the cure for because she was supposed to be a doctor, and she told me that her daughter and her husband got killed in a bad car accident. ethan was entranced, he said. claimed he believed everything she told him. that s when they moved in together, and each day he d go to his hotel job, and she d head off to the hospital to her doctor work. she would be getting up, putting on make-up, putting on her scrubs, putting on her white jacket with her name that was sewed in it. but heather had another story, says ethan, one she had used on other marks. but he didn t knee that. that members of her family were violent and powerful drug dealers. and one day, he says she told him a terrifying story. her family members had learned that kate waring had sold out. she had ratted them out to police. kate was going to have to die. and those drug kingpins decided heather and ethan would be the executioners. she s saying her family basically telling her she better get rid of kate or they re going to get rid of us. and they re going to handle my family, too. they re going to kill my family. you believed this actually could happen? i done seen people get beat up over $5 and $10 and get shoot over for less than that. ethan s version of that awful night basically, zipped her up in the suitcase. that s when she came at me like, ethan, we got to kill her. now right right then, ethan, she s lying in that suitcase, top is zipped up. what you do as her friend is you go and unzip the suitcase and say, ha, ha, okay, get up. right? no, it wasn t that s not how it worked. why not? it wasn t like that. because my mother, my sister, my daddy, too, and my life but says ethan, it was not he but heather who smothered kate with the pillow. i couldn t do it to her or kill her. she had to push me out of the way, and she jumped on top of her and started smothering her with the pillow. i went into the room, and i dropped down on my knees. and i be like, help me, father, please. forgive me for what is going on and what i m witnessing here and have happen in front of my face. yeah. you were praying, but you weren t pushing her off, you weren t stopping it. no, i couldn t stop her. i still was thinking those people were going to kill me. let me challenge you for a minute because i know you re a good friend to her. yes, sir. you were killing your sister, for god sakes. yes, it is. that s exactly what is right. the rest of it, the taser, the wine bottle bludgeoning, the drowning in the bathtub, all heather, says ethan, not him. and when he helped hide their crime, when he actually married heather, that, says ethan, is because she told him she was pregnant. she wasn t, of course. but ethan says he believed her as usual, and he wasn t about to abandon his child. yeah, but you re married to a killer. you got married to her after the murder. just for her to stop threatening me with the running off and taking my baby. god s honest truth, says ethan, every single word. and now at night in his jail cell how often do you think about that moment? i think about it a whole lot. i deceived her. i never meant anybody harm. now look at me. you getting exactly what you deserve? yes, sir. i m getting exactly what i deserve. i know i got to do this time in jail, but still i can t bring her back. wherever all the powers that i ask for, and how much i ask the heavenly father to take my life away to bring hers back, it will not be done. no. it will not. not for him. not for the warings. it was in court that kate s father, tom, read one of the last things she ever wrote. they had gone to church together, he and the daughter who adored him, the girl about whom he worried so. and she scribbled something on a prayer note and stuffed it in a church pew just a couple of sundays before she boarded that fateful train. she wrote, please pray for my father, tom waring, who worries himself sick and for nothing. i am and will be fine. if i die tomorrow, i have lived through almost everything and more, and i m not afraid of anything. just know that i pray for god s forgiveness for bringing tears to my daddy s eyes.