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Trump Immunity Appeal

>> and to pick up on my response to judge childs, we certainly stand by our review in the brief that some substantial number of allegations would fall outside of the outer perimeter and this is i think enough to affirm, and i think that either parties are urging the court then to send it back to the district court which then is going to create a series of challenging questions i mentioned earlier which are what are the evidentiary theerories that evidence could come in, and it is our strong view, and if the court were to follow that route, which we urge the court not to, which is to make clear that the immunity is and on/off switch. if the court is to affirm, send it back and no immunity, and then other things are evidentiary questions of jury instructions which any appeal is then an appeal from the final judgment if any final judgment. >> and the immunity defense is

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Trump Immunity Appeal

some in the question of the office seeker versus office holder, and so do we use the blasingame for that? >> if this court decides way the district court did, then blasingame does not have a role at all, because if this act is official or set of allegations are official, then the question is based on the fitzgerald analysis and history precedent, et cetera, and is there any quantum of immunity for a former president, and we believe that the answer to that question is no, and the reason of the district court then to turn to the indictment and consider this outer perimeter, civil outer perimeter. >> and do you believe they should decide the way that the district court -- >> i suppose that -- >> i mean on the blasingame did.

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Ana Cabrera Reports

it in that opinion as determining whether it was office seeker versus office holder. do we use blasting game for that? >> so, if this court decides the case the way the district court does, did, pardon me, then i don't think blasting game has any role to play at all. because there is no question of whether, you know, is this act official or were these sets of allegations official. the question is, based on a fitzgerald analysis history precedent et cetera, you know, is there any quantum of immunity for a former president? we think the answer to that question is no. there is no reason as to the district court also found to turn to the indictment and consider this outer perimeter. this civil outer perimeter standard. >> how about -- the way the district court did? >> if you don't, i mean, i suppose -- >> blasting game. >> so, there are different ways the court could not decide it that way. i think to pick up on my response to judge childs, we

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Ana Cabrera Reports

certainly stand by our view in the brief that some substantial number of allegations would fall outside of an outer perimeter. and that i think is enough to affirm. i think either party are urging the court at that point to send, of course, the case back to the district court. i think that then would create a series of challenging questions that i mentioned earlier. what are the evidentiary theories under which that evidence could potentially come in? and it would be our strong view and we would want, if the court followed that route, which we urge the court not to, to make clear that immunity is an on/off switch, right? this is the immunity. if the court says we affirm, we send it back, there is no immunity, then other things become evidentiary questions or questions really of jury instructions, which any appeal is then an appeal from the final judgment if any final judgment. >> immunity defense is never

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Deadline White House

trump who's told us bad and dangerous things he's going to do if he becomes president again, we argued many of those things can happen within the existing constraints of the law. what does this look like? donald trump possibly gets to be president, and thinks that get out of free jail card is actually good? >> and i would suggest where donald trump can be most dangerous is within the latency of the application of the law. the latency of the application of justice, and what i mean by that is on this question of immunity, everybody gets an opinion, and certainly the two glenns would have a more informed opinion than i on this, but i do think that what we will see come out of this is some sort of standard. it is within the outer perimeter of the presidency to have an interest in the fair administration of elections, even though those elections are administered at the state level. it is not what we saw donald trump do. what we saw donald trump do was not involve himself in the fair administration of elections, and that's where i think justice and accountability will prevail in

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Deadline White House

own because there's nothing in the constitution or the case law or the statutes that says a president can't be prosecuted upon leaving office. >> david jolly, the new republic had a write up about some of this. ays a favorable decision, meaning for trump, could unshackle trump, couldll unshackle trump in a big way. trevor morrison, associate white house counsel under obama says the key is whether the courts rule that trump has immunity on the theory that his alleged inal conduct does fall in the outer perimeter, as you mentioned, of prtial duties and how the courts define that perimeter. if they accept trad vision of immunity or something li it. he may argue that future potentially criminal acts also fall within that perimeter. so lefs rush made the point, he talks about mar-a-lago, donald

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Deadline White House

the written briefs in this case where they said that donald trump was acting within the outer perimeter of his office. right? that somehow donald trump as president does have an interest in the fair administration of elections, but i think the reason they've given up on that angle a little bit is even if that was the standard, sure, the fair administration is within the outer perimeter, trump actually fails his own standard because of all of the facts in this case. because what donald trump tried to do was chase votes for donald trump, not secure the fair administration of the election. an easy question of donald trump would be, what did you do in cases where perhaps joe biden or democratic voters we aggrieved. how did you try to resolve those favorably, and obviously they didn't. they have gone for this nixon defense that he can do whatever he wants and i think in a very public way, this is a humiliation for the president and the president's legal team. >> glenn thrush, the outer perimeter that david jolly is

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Way Too Early With Jonathan Lemire

do you think trump has any validity. >> oral argument is flashing, but it's done in the briefing. it's available online. really basically this immunity argument, the trump side isn't arguing for absolute immunity for absolutely everything the president does. that would be ridiculous. they're arguing instead -- the key words to think about are outer perimeter. in other words, was what trump did, his conduct, this is where the key issue will lie, is what he did, the facts of his conduct. does it fall within the outer perimeter of a presidential's official duties? that standard is permissible toward trump. within the outer perimeter. in other words, it can even be a stretch. so i still think ultimately this case goes the way of the government. i don't think trump gets immunity. i think you take a commonsense look at the facts. what donald trump did, was he acting as a campaigner, as somebody in his own self-interest, or was he doing

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Yasmin Vossoughian Reports

president. instead, the defense is arguing that anything trump did that is within the outer perimeter of his official conduct, that should be absolutely immune. the key to the argument is, which is very strange to me, because they need to vote exactly one page to it and debris. the key is arguing that what trump did, investigate, as they frame it, election interference fell within the outer perimeter of the presidential duties. i think that is factually stretch. i think you can ask yourself the question, what if the tables were turned? what if trump got inward that there was election interference but it favored him, caused him to win. do we really think he would have made phone calls to the georgia secretary of state, if he knew that something nefarious was up that was helping hip. >> no. >> the answer is no. and the common sense answer, i think, it should factor in if you are analyzing whether or not what trump did's conduct that falls within the outer perimeter of presidential conduct. >> ryan, i'm gonna be outside the court on thursday for the former president's civil fraud

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Alex Witt Reports

he has immunity, i think, from this outer perimeter of his duties. but even if the d.c. court of appeals were to find that was the standard, what donald trump did here was not within the after perimeter of his official duties. he was trying to interfere with the electoral count. and tried to make sure he was the one that was installed instead of the properly elected candidate. so, i really think that this is not going to go anywhere. i expected the argument, you're going to hear a lot of questions about the text of the constitution. nowhere in the constitution's presidential immunity addressed. where is donald trump getting this from? where are his lawyers getting these arguments from? history, there's no evidence from the founders that immunity existed. presidents were pardon, former president nixon, to prevent the prosecution, suggesting there was this, there was no understanding of history, at least, that there was such presidential immunity. i also think you're going to see a lot of hypotheticals presented by the special counsel's office, in the

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