their everyday lives. and then of course there s the bottom line for businesses many of them saying they ve really been hit as far as the economic impact because of this curfew. she faced some criticism even after she announced a short time ago that she is lifting this curfew for the city of baltimore. many people even on social media say the damage is already done, but the mayor saying she wanted to assess because this was a public safety issue and what she wanted to make sure was there was not this replay we saw last week with violence and the rioting. and speaking of rioting, i am standing right in front of the mondawmin mall. this was essentially ground zero for all that violence and rioting. some of that happening right here. we had shattered glass. we had damage to buildings. within damage to businesses within the building here. and we do know that in a matter of minutes the mayor will be showing up here to announce that the mall will be reopening. it has been closed for about a week. really a turning point here. not only have we seen consecutive days of peaceful protests but just now getting this announcement the curfew has been lifted and now we re starting to see businesses affected by the looting, they re now starting to reopen. renee, thank you for that. please stand by. with me now evan perez, cnn s justice correspondent. tom fuentes, former fbi assistant director and cnn correspondent nick valencia. nick to you and to evan in particular i know you ve been embedded with the protest movement. what will be the reaction do you think to the lifting of the mall? will that defuse the protest activities? i think you will see definitely defuse the situation. i think in the last couple of days certainly i think the curfew has been the cause of the protests over here on the town, on the city green. a lot of people were here on friday night just protesting, chanting against the curfew when they were arrested. and last night was the same thing. i think the curfew had gotten to the point where it was now causing some of the unrest. and that was a big complaint among the demonstrators that we were with yesterday on north avenue and pennsylvania avenue. at one point about 9:00 p.m. joseph kent a young man who was arrested on national television by the national guard, led a group of about 100 demonstrators up north avenue. at one point, michael, he stops in the intersection and he says if you are not serious about what happens next please leave. a couple people did peel off. but to evan s point it wasn t so much that they were demonstrating against the injustice of what was done to freddie gray as much as they were demonstrating saying we are grown adults you cannot tell us to be out in the streets. of course we all saw what happens next. perhaps the larger question is the national guard presence. will that imagery perpetuate or have the potential to perpetuate something more? of course the same could be said about the media. do our cameras being here do they give potential to move this forward in a bad way? you know tom, i ve thought myself that the presence of the guard acts as a magnet of sorts. okay. so now there s no curfew but they ll still be here presumably until governor hogan says they no longer need to be. how do you read that? it s a difficult choice, michael. you have if you don t have the guard here and they re looting businesses endangering lives, pelting police officers and firefighters with rocks, cutting fire hoses, that s a tremendous threat to national well national security local security here in the community. you can t have that. and so if the police, as the police admitted on monday we don t have the resources to handle this then you call for backup. and in this case they had 1,000 or so officers from the state police and zroungd counties and the national guard. and i think they were just making sure especially when they were hearing that more and more people from out of town are going to be coming in friday and yesterday, and that created a fear on the authorities part here that we need to be extra safe not less safe. i think when they do the calculation the damage that s been done to the local economy is going to be staggering. i can tell you just going out to dinner last night i was told you need to order right now because we need to close i think it was 7:30, and the rationale was yes, but everybody who works here needs to get safely home before 10:00 p.m. there s a restaurant just up the block, miss shirley s, which is well known, famous people come from all over just to go there. usually a line on a weekend, brunch. we walked in nobody else was in there. it was very lightly light crowd. and you know they were saying that the amount of money they re getting in is way down. some hotels had 90% occupancy to tuesday and they were down to 15% just in the last couple days. the economic effect of this will be a case study i m sure in years ahead. yesterday we had one of the biggest fights in box history, manny pacquiao against floyd mayweather. people couldn t go. . people could not go out. right. the city shut down. and who knows? one local affiliate spoke to a business here says they lost $10,000 last night. i m sure other businesses could say that they over time have lost more. it will be very interesting to see if public sentiment shifts should the protests continue. now the curfew s been lifted. if people come out on a sunday night and things get out of hand i think there will be a changing tide in terms houf the public looks at this. i think so. one of the things i saw last night in nick s reporting that that when you had these wild kids running around these buildings, anarchists the local people wanted police to come here and deal with these kids and get them out of here. when you have the community trying to police itself with the help of the police that s a pretty significant step. that was another aspect of the curfew. it was bringing in people who had no other intention to come here no respect for freddie gray or anybody else they only wanted to come here and tangle with the police and get themselves on television for doing it. we see that all over. we ll see what happens tonight. right. what s the latest if you re able to tell us relative to the investigation of the burning of the cvs? we know the atf is on the scene right now they re collecting evidence. they believe they re going to be able to solve these arsons. a lot of these arsons were actually they were first looted stores. and especially the pharmacies. it was people who wanted to go in and steal the oxycontin, things they can resell on the streets. so that s part of the investigation as well. people who wanted to come in there just to try to get stuff that they can sell on the secondary market. and then they torched the stores to try to destroy evidence. i think the atf and the local fire marshal think they re going to be able to solve these fires. the human part to this is that was the only pharmacy this community had to go to. i was talking to a woman yesterday michael and she said i don t know where i m going to go for my prescription medication i need this medication for my diabetes, i don t know where i m going to go. the factor also at play is will investors come back to this community? will they feel safe investing in this community having seen what happened there? law enforcement have some tough calls to make as to whether they ll move forward with prosecution of the individuals that they have locked up in association with these protests. from a police standpoint cops hate this. you don t want to make an arrest on minor almost worthless charges like curfew because the reason is you have to put your hands on somebody. they might fall down and break their neck and now you re up to your you know, situation. or if you pepper spray them they might have a heart condition or asthma and choke to death or have a heart attack and die. you don t want to mess with that. if they re bank robbers, great. but if they re just curfew and wild kids that have come to town to cause trouble, you don t want to have to touch them. law enforcement s been put in a very awkward position with all the scrutiny that s been placed as a result of what happened to freddie gray then having to provide some semblance of order for the protests that ensued. they were criticized because they held back on monday when the first anarchy broke out. you can see they feel like they re damned if they do and they re damned if they don t. and i get it. i get what the criticism is. at the same time i think you do become a magnet for this situation as people were saying you have people coming into town simply because she see the guard presence they see state police on the streets and they think this is something they might be able to challenge the order. you would think the guard would remain for at least another day to see what s the impact of the lifting of the curfew and then a decision would be made whether it s time for them to go as well. if there s any indication to the shift in attitude the shift in perception here for the first time in recent days on that corner, north avenue and pennsylvania avenue, where the cvs burned down, we did not see local police in riot gear. now, that changed throughout the night as these demonstrators challenged the curfew but we should be fair. there was a jubilant attitude. somewhat of a block party, if you will, at one point that changed as those agitators went forward with their purpose and cause. but that feeling remains. thank you, rene marsh, evan perez, tom fuentes, and nick valencia. we ll continue to monitor this breaking news. don t go anywhere. 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(vo) visit your local retailer and feel the tempur-pedic difference for yourself. i m caridee. i ve had moderate to severe plaque psoriasis most of my life. but that hasn t stopped me from modeling. my doctor told me about stelara® it helps keep my skin clearer. with only 4 doses a year after 2 starter doses. .stelara® helps me be in season. stelara® may lower your ability to fight infections and increase your risk of infections. some serious infections require hospitalization. before starting stelara® your doctor should test for tuberculosis. stelara® may increase your risk of cancer. always tell your doctor if you have any sign of infection have had cancer, or if you develop any new skin growths. do not take stelara® if you are allergic to stelara® or any of its ingredients. alert your doctor of new or worsening problems including headaches, seizures, confusion and vision problems. these may be signs of a rare potentially fatal brain condition. serious allergic reactions can occur. tell your doctor if you or anyone in your house needs or has recently received a vaccine. in a medical study most stelara® patients saw at least 75% clearer skin and the majority were rated as cleared or minimal at 12 weeks. stelara® helps keep my skin clearer. ask your doctor about stelara®. i m michael smerconish. we re live in baltimore, where the curfew has just been lifted. i m with evan perez, cnn s justice correspondent. cnn correspondent nick va qulaens and tom fuentes, former fbi assistant director. gentlemen, the baltimore sun had a report today on the front page which was really stunning. they had a report justin fenton who was inside the police investigation of what had just gone on relative to freddie gray monitoring the process. the takeaway was they were absolutely floored. they handed over their file on thursday and then they were shocked as everyone else when friday the announcement was made pertaining to the investigation and the charges. this doesn t bode well for what comes after here in baltimore. how so? because you have a state prosecutor who floored everyone. she didn t tell the political leadership. and i guess that s appropriate. the police department which as you said pointed out finished up their investigation on thursday handed it over to her, was absolutely floored. they had no idea she was about to do a press conference and she was going to announce charges against these six officers. she gave them about an hour notice before she went out there. and that is just simply a symptom perhaps of a bigger problem. maybe the bigger problem is the left hand and the right hand just don t trust one another in this town and didn t feel comfortable bringing anyone into the loop. right. and that s remarkable because there is something wrong in this country where it does appear we repeatedly have police investigating themselves and find they did nothing wrong. and that has sown a lot of distrust in minority communities and communities around the country. so perhaps something big needed to happen. a big change needed to happen. she certainly decided this was the route she was going to take. the actions that predicated the charges were largely things the police did not do. initially she said this is an arrest that should not have been made. but then it s all about what law enforcement didn t do. they didn t respond to his pleas for assistance from a medical standpoint. and they didn t belt him in. it occurred to me that those two events not belting him in and not responding to his pleas for medical assistance and i m not defending, it but that probably goes on with some regularity. for example, i m not sure that the guy who for a time period shared that van with freddie gray i m not so sure he was belted in at the time. i don t know if we know the answer to that question. and jailitis is the term that was published today in the baltimore sun for someone who s been taken into custody and now claims they need medical assistance. last month the rule to strap everybody in just went into effect april. right. so that means all previous arrests it was pretty discretionary for the driver as to whether to do it or not. if you have somebody that s bound at the hands, bound at the feet, not strapped in i don t care if he drives five miles an hour. the passenger is not going to stay on that seat. you just can t. and then when he goes off, he s not going to be able to break the fall. it s going to be severe. and i think that what you re talking about is yes, negligence and violating department rules. but it s a long step to say they deliberately murdered him, they deliberately did this to him. and i think there s a rule in investigations when i was investigator and then running investigations is you never form your theory what happened up front because subliminally subconsciously you will be ignoring evidence that contradicts your theory and finding everything that backs your theory up to do it. and i think from the beginning i don t think there s much question that there was pretty common thought here that these police killed him. but not in a deliberate way. she didn t say they intentionally took him on a rough ride. and not with any concerted never said nap and not with any concerted activity because there s not a conspiracy charge here. i think the onus is on the prosecution to have to hold them individually accountable. from a causation standpoint i think that s going to be difficult. and my hunch is it was prosecuted or was about to be prosecuted in this way so as to get them to turn on one another. there s another factor is part of the crime scene was freddie gray s neck. and the surgeons that worked on him for a week to save his life basically had to remove tissue move things around get in there. so essentially they re witnesses now instead of the medical examiner of what was the condition of that neck the cervical spine, the voice box when he was being treated at the hospital before he died and the body goes to the medical examiner office. and that s going to be a very difficult thing. and it s a rule in law enforcement, you d like a pristine crime scene for the investigators. the crime scene investigators. the medical examiners. but if you can have the opportunity to save somebody s life it comes first. nick i ve watched you for the last several nights as has the rest of the country walking along with the protesters. is it enough for them that prosecutions are taking place and the system is now going to take over or must they have convictions? because i think what i m saying and i think what tom is saying is we re a long way from a conviction phase. the short answer is i m not sure and i don t think many of these demonstrators know the answer to that. when i asked that question do you think the worst has passed some said yes. others said that things will always be tense. even more said though that we need to get justice still. these officers remember still have not been indicted. they ve been charged but they have not formally been indicted. now they wait for a trial. they wait to see if their pleas are met. if they find these officers guilty. i worry, michael, that more will happen if the community here doesn t necessarily get what they want and that s the conviction of all six officers. you re pulling triple duty here now. we re hearing the church bells. what can we say in it s live television. what will happen with the justice department now that action has been taken on a local level? they ve got a couple roles here. they re doing what they call collaborative reform. the mayor invited them in to help fix the police department. that is a process that s already like six, seven months in progress. and so we ll see whether or not there are any long-term reforms that they can carry out for this police department. the second thing is they re doing an investigation of the freddie gray death. and we ll see whether they re able to bring any civil rights charges against these officers. the issue is there s a little bit of less pressure, a release valve, that has now taken place because of these charges by the state prosecutor. as you know the bar is pretty high to bring civil rights charges, federal civil rights charges in these types of cases. i ll be anxious to see by the way, i had this happen this morning when we were here in the same spot. it will land in about two minutes, i think. tom fuentes, at the outset of all of this which has transpired in baltimore, it seemed like the relationship between the governor and the mayor was not the best. there were questions raised as to whether he was waiting on her and whether he could find her. it will be interesting to see now that the curfew has been lifted whether they re working in concert with one another relative to the national guard. and specifically what i m thinking of is should the mayor request that the national guard now be removed, will he necessarily follow her lead? i would think. if she makes the request, he can t afford to not follow the request. but i was a little bit surprised, or maybe i should say a lot surprised as a viewer monday you know when they started doing the after-action press conferences about the riot and you have who asked who and when it almost gave the impression that i let this mayor have it her way, which was too gentle and we had a riot and the police couldn t stop it, step aside get out of my way, i m moving my office to baltimore, i m bringing in my troops literally troops combat veteran guardsmen along with the state police in the thousands, - get out of our way, we re going to secure baltimore. and that s what it looked like to me is that conflict had come to the top. gentlemen, stick with us. i want to squeeze in a quick break. i want to come back to baltimore. we re awaiting a press conference from baltimore s mayor. please stand by. if you struggle with type 2 diabetes you re certainly not alone. fortunately, many have found a different kind of medicine that lowers blood sugar. imagine what it would be like to love your numbers. discover once-daily invokana®. it s the #1 prescribed in the newest class of medicines that work with the kidneys to lower a1c. invokana® is used along with diet and exercise to significantly lower blood sugar in adults with type 2 diabetes. it s a once-daily pill that works around the clock. here s how: the kidneys allow sugar to be absorbed back into the body. invokana® reduces the amount of sugar allowed back in and sends some sugar out through the process of urination. and while it s not for weight loss, it may help you lose weight. invokana® can cause important side effects including dehydration, which may cause you to feel dizzy, faint, lightheaded, or weak especially when you stand up. other side effects may include kidney problems, genital yeast infections urinary tract infections changes in urination high potassium in the blood, or increases in cholesterol. do not take invokana® if you have severe kidney problems or are on dialysis. stop taking and call your doctor right away if you experience symptoms such as rash, swelling, or difficulty breathing or swallowing. tell your doctor about any medical conditions medications you are taking and if you have kidney or liver problems. using invokana® with a sulfonylurea or insulin may increase risk of low blood sugar. it s time. lower your blood sugar with invokana®. imagine loving your numbers. there s only one invokana®. ask your doctor about it by name. we re taking you right now to the baltimore mayor stephanie rawlings-blake. she s speaking to the media outside the mall that was looted on monday. i m just so grateful because it shows the resiliency of our city. i want to thank general growth and all of the vendors who are here. they want to stay here. they want to their investment. it s certainly a smart investment because this is a growing community. again, i want to thank all the members of the community that have come together to support mondawmin mall. i ve been coming here since i was a child, taking my christmas pictures with santa, i think the easter bunny. you can come up general growth if you want to come up. come on. you sure? and this is just a great day for this community to have the mall reopened. just a wonderful day. i was proud to support the investment that i think it was the baltimore development corporation made into this mall to do the major renovations and to see it bounce back so quickly. it gives me a lot of optimism about what s possible in the rebuilding. i ll open it up. i don t know if bdc wanted to say anything no, ma am. what was the difference between yesterday and today in your decision to lift the curfew? so yesterday we had some of the same outside protesters that we had on saturday. when the peaceful protests turned into destruction, and we were very cautious that we were able to get through that night without having it turn into what happened last saturday. the national guard, the police presence will they stay now? what about the national guard and state troopers? so they unwind. it s not like you flip a switch. they have to unwind their operations. and they re going to do that over this next week. are they withdrawing basically? yeah. are you concerned this might be premature on your part? you ll tell me that afterwards. it will either be too long or too early. you ll let me know afterwards. can you talk about how confident you are right now in the state of affairs in baltimore, in how peaceful it is in the underlying unrest. what is your assessment right now of the state of affairs in baltimore? right now i m very confident. what we saw over the past few days is not just the resiliency of our city but also our communities coming together. we want to heal our city. we know we have challenges in baltimore. we know that there s work to be done. but what you saw in these last few days with the peaceful demonstrations and people coming together to celebrate baltimore is that will that we will get better that we will get through this and we ll do it as one baltimore. in terms of the unrest what is your appraisal of the status of the unrest in baltimore right now? i think a lot of the unrest has been settled down in the sense of the protests but that doesn t mean the work doesn t continue. we are actively engaging with the department of justice on collaborative review. we have been since last year in the process of improving our police department reforming our police department, and putting in place things that will eliminate this type of incident from ever happening again. with you elaborate on the role the faith leaders of the community have played 99 only renot only in rebuilding the city but in quelling much of the violence. there are words rinare insufficient to describe my gratitude to the faith community. they have come out in unbelievable ways to not just support me in the physical sense of the city but to support me spiritually and to help us rebuild our community. when they were out there, you saw the fire burning in east baltimore. but when they were out there, it was the fire of their spirit and it was really energizing our community. and i cannot words are insufficient. to describe my gratitude. ms. mayor, what s your reaction to the criticism of your leadership during this crisis but also praise of the governor? that s your job, to react and respond to that. you know i m very focused what do you think? i think i m going to continue to be focused on rebuilding my city. about your conversation you had [ inaudible ] they are optimistic. you know they re excited about continuing their investment in mondawmin. this is a very successful mall. so to see that destruction that i saw when i toured on tuesday, it was really it was devastating to see that done to these vendors who have put so much money into this mall. but to see them back i was just excited. and you know they re optimistic moving forward that we ll never see anything like that again. thank you. [ inaudible ]. outside groups mayor stephanie rawlings-blake speak k to the media after lifting the curfew that s been in effect since last tuesday. i m sort of disappointed. as far as i could tell nobody asked about the presence of the guard. i thought evan someone would have said is it time for them to leave. right. i think that s the thing when you walk around the city you see the guard. much respect to them. certainly down by the east harbor you have more guard than you have tourists than you have people walking on the streets. and it is not the image that you want right now. i think you want i know that there was perhaps a need for it on tuesday. but i think it s probably time for them to go back to their jobs their regular jobs. even to the point of local police being ramped up and really sort of intimidating riot gear. we were listening to conversations that they were having with the community yesterday, and they were saying it was sort of a specific order that they not wear those helmets so as not to intimidate the public. right. has this been tom, a test case for the debate over the so-called militarization of police? i ve seen a lot of equipment as i ve been walking around baltimore in the last couple of days that i m sure at some point was on a battlefield in afghanistan or iraq. no that s true. and i think in this case it s the militarization of the military. it s the national guard that s here not the police using equipment that s been given to them free by the military. i think that i saw a police tank yesterday. but i think some of the people talking about ferguson have made a mistake because they said look at the mistake made by the deployment of the st. louis county police with all their military gear and their sniper on top of the truck. that s true. that s absolutely true the sniper in the truck was off the top, should have been using bin oculars or something. but when they backed police off earlier in the week, when the police stood as spectators like we saw on monday buildings burned and people got hurt. so the lesson is find the right mix of at least have them staged out of sight but ready. and if things get out of control, you don t have to make a statement like the police spokesman did on monday which i almost had a shock when i heard tr, well it well we don t have enough police to do protection of property and protection of people we had to do one or the other, we decided to protect people. that is incredible to me. you don t have that either or. what should he have said? we re here to protect both. and i m sorry our police officers were given orders to be spectators as that cvs was burned as women are coming out of burning apartments with their babies in their arms enveloped in smoke, while people are cutting fire hoses, if not saving lives that that site later in the day might have been needed another site if you had a major apartment building catch on fire. sought idea that you re not there to protect property yes, you are there. property and people. not one or the other. gentlemen, stand by. i want to go to rene marsh. rene rene thanks for sticking with us. were you surprised that the mayor didn t say anything about the national guard? well she did. she was asked specifically about that and she said there will be a drawdown it will not happen immediately, it will be in stages essentially we ll eventually see them pulling out one by one in stages. so that is the answer that we got from her as far as the national guard goes. but again, we will not see them all disappear, we will not see that presence diminished right away but it will happen in stages. that was the word from her. she did go inside and she did meet with many business owners who their businesses were damaged. again, this was ground zero for where all that rioting and the violence began. the bigger question now is the issue of dealing with the greater economic impact. yeah sure they ve reopened but what has been done to the city of baltimore as far as its image and tourism and people are they willing to come, and what will the lingering effects be? at this point it may be too early to assess that. but she did in her talks here discuss a feeling of trying to return to normal, michael. zble rene thank you so much. thank you for correcting me because i didn t hear that exchange. we appreciate your report. we re waiting for a news conference from governor larry hogan speaking shortly after attending church on what he declared as a day of prayer and peace. we ll be right back. ( spinning tires ) he doesn t need your help. until he does. three cylinders, dual overhead cams and 50 horsepower. go bold. go powerful. go gator. get 3,500 dollars off select gators at a dealer near you. george johnson can not fly. he can not see through doors. his speed, anything but superhuman. but when it comes to health care options, george found helpful information and resources at aarphealth.com this makes him feel unstoppable. well, almost unstoppable. discover real possibilities at aarphealth.com today and tomorrow take on the world. we re waiting for a news conference from governor larry hogan speaking shortly after attending church on what he declared as a day of prayer and peace. evan perez, nick valencia, and tom fuentes are still here with me. evan it occurs to all of us that six individuals have been murdered in baltimore since the guard arrived unrelated to the whole freddie gray situation. there s a problem here. there s a bigger problem here. and it s funny, this morning there was a city councilman who was tweeting he wants the national media to leave, he wants, you know things to go back to normal. i talked to someone out in the neighborhood in north and penn this week and what they said was they didn t want things to go back to normal because normal is baltimore in baltimore is not good. you know six murders is the average that they have here. and you have heavy guard presence and state police. and still there are six fatal shootings just this week many more that were not fatal. and that s just normal. what s the short-term solution? that s the great question. we ve had community leader after leader talk about 30 years or 300 years of oppression here. all true. so that children like freddie gray are almost doomed from birth to having difficulty the rest of their life. but we need to fix those. no question about it. what do we do tomorrow next week next month when we have six murders a week in this town and have had that average go back several years? this morning on state of the union i had two big city mayors and also a very prominent member of congress. the question i was trying to drive them cardtoward is is there a government solution to awful this and did government create this? it s a philosophical question not easily adopted for a short conversation like this. but i think it s a very real discussion that needs to be held. you re going back to the point i made earlier. the media presence here, are we perpetuating this? is this imagery of the national guard what do you think? what we saw here yesterday was we saw a lot of people acting outrageous for the cameras. and if they weren t here they would be asking why are we not here. so to evan s point earlier, it s sort of a damned if you, do damned if you don t. what we have seen over the course of the last week is an evolution in the narrative of the demonstrators, an evolution in the narrative of what they re using. we spoke to a lot of young black men yesterday who were disgusted with what they saw on monday night, the violence the criminal activity, and that s something we had not heard a lot of people coming out and saying this is not baltimore, this is not the city that we live in. yes, every big city has major problems but there s a lot of people know that are really pointing out bad things that are happening. you speak of the evolution of the protesters and their mindset. how about the evolution of the mindset of the mayor? i heard her moments ago refer to some as outside protesters. you of course know she used the thug word earlier in the week. she walked it back. the president used that word as well. he did not walk it back as far as i know. and she got into a lot of trouble. you know part of the problem for her is she s had a rough week. she started off very poor response to this and i think that s what has gotten some of that response. i don t know what the right answer to that to the word whether the word should be off limits or not. i can hear both points of view. chris cuomo made a very impassioned he s shaking his head no. no it shouldn t be off limits. that s a mainstream term. in my 30 years in the fbi and six as a cop we used thug to mean a criminal who s violent. not bernie madoff who s also a criminal but violent. but words change. who changed it? the black community decided this is our word we can t use it anymore? it s a mainstream word. it is a mainstream word. but after hearing what people say, that word sounds like to them you know i m rethinking the way i look at it. it s changed my view on it. look i m a bald white guy from the suburbs of philadelphia. what do i know? when i hear thug i have this image of a stocky white guy that exactly. at target range. you know who i m thinking of when you go to an door range and there s a white guy with a gun in his hand he may or may not have a cigar butt sticking out of his mouth? to me that s what i think of when i think of a thug. i m thinking of jon gotti. i m thinking of asian organized crime groups russian organized crime groups that use violence and narco terrorist activities. they re thugs. and suddenly this has taken on a racial it s not the n word. and it shouldn t be. and the best way to prevent it from being an n word is use it on everybody else that deserves it. i think somehow there needs to be a conversation that bridges personal responsibility and an understanding of some of the institutional drivers of the circumstances that exist in this city and in big city america. i don t want to absolve those who were can i say hooligans, who looted burned, who stole? criminals. criminals. they need to be condemned locked up and put in jail. at the same time i do want to be understanding about the plight of communities in which they were raised. i was in this neighborhood sand town where freddie gray lived. we were over there doing live shots in the early morning. and there was one image that really stuck with me was the image of a father getting his daughter getting ready for school putting her in the car. to the left to the right the entire block, boarded up houses houses missing roofs, burned out shelves of buildings. that s the environment this little girl is growing up in. that s really it s hard to believe that s what we have here in baltimore. and it s not just baltimore. philly. lots of places in america. detroit have the same problem. and i don t know what the solution is. it s just but it s clearly i know people are tired of us being here perhaps but shining a spotlight on the problem is probably not a bad thing. according to marilyn mosby the solution is accountability. that s haw heard her saying in her press conference you re getting it now. the concern going forward of course is are these young men making her look bad by continuing to protest, continuing well they will tonight if they come out tonight and particularly if it gets out of control. i think that they will absolutely prove to be an embarrassment to her after she extended herself from those very steps when she walked down unexpectedly last friday and charged six police officers in the way that she did. by the way, we re about a minute away i think from the governor address the recent events the lifting of the curfew here in baltimore. what do you think, tom, we ll hear from him? probably the same thing as the mayor. i think it s kind of interesting they re not making this announcement jointly. it goes back to what i said earlier, he moved the capital from annapolis to baltimore. he brings in his state police his national guard, several thousand, and basically says i m taking over the town. you would think at this point they might have gotten a way to talk together and gotten a way of presentation that brings peace and unity back to this community and removing the guard and state police and going back to business as usual. the fact they re making separate announcements means to me they re not on the same page yet. is it too soon to do a political calculus in terms of how this impacts the mayor, how this impacts the governor? i think this has been a very very bad week for her. i think if she had aspirations beyond city hall it s a very bad report card she s going to receive. what was the greatest failing? she was absent while the city was burning initially. initially. and she s had a hard time coming back on that. and every time she goes before the cameras and gets asked questions she doesn t like she starts walking away. on the other hand you might think so. she said i think to a person at that briefing we just watched. but i m not going to comment. on the other hand we have the state prosecutor archbishop lawrie we ve got the governor right now. here s governor larry hogan speaking after attending church services. i can tell you we saw a lot of good things this week. when i came into the city on monday night it was all in flames. the city was burning. stores wrbing looted. a lot of terrible things. but since then i ve seen incredible acts of kindness. i saw neighbors helping neighbors. i ve seen a community that cares about each other. and it s a great way to end the week-w a day of prayer and piece and reconciliation. that s what this is all about. how do you feel about the lifting of the curfew that the mayor just announced? are you concerned at all that looters might come back at all now that the khawr phew has been lifted? the mayor and i both talked and we agreed that it s time to get the community back to normal again. it s been a very hard week but we ve kept everybody safe. since monday night we haven t had any serious problems. i just thank everybody in the community for their help in keeping the calm and keeping the peace. we couldn t have done it without them. but it s going to take a little while for us to totally get back normal. but i think lifting the curfew s a good idea. it s been a really rough week but let s get back to normal in the city and get people back to work and back to school and get people coming back into the city to visit the shops that were really devastated this week and the smallest mom and pop stores and restaurants. they need your help. so we want tone courage everybody to come back to the city. it s safe. and we ve got calm and peace in the city which is something we haven t seen in a little while. how long will the national guard be staying, governor? we ve already started withdrawal of the guard. the trucks are pulling out this morning. it s going to take a little bit of a while. you know we brought in 4,000 people this week to keep the city safe. we brought in 1,000 extra police officers 3,000 members of the guard, and 3,000 volunteers to help clean things up. it s not going to happen instantaneously. it s going to take a couple of days to get everybody out. we had to build an entire city to save the city. so it s going to take i while, but we ve already started and we re going to get back to normal as quickly as we can. the police officers is the baltimore police department in need of reform? well, look i don t want to get into the reform of the baltimore police or the case itself. what we need is a lot of healing. obviously, there s big issues we ve got to address. what i ve been totally focused on, 20 some hours a day every day for the past week is keeping everybody safe. there s longer-term questions and issues about how we fix this how we develop more trust between the community and the police how we fix some of the overarching problems happening in our urban areas and here in baltimore. but today we re not going to solve that. today we re about having peace in the city and thank everybody for their help. freddie gray was not restrained in the police van he was in. is this neighborhood and some neighborhoods around the country that s known as a rough ride. do you want to review statewide right now how prevalent it might be in other law enforcement agencies? well actually, we re signing eight pieces of legislation including one that allows us to gather all that kind of information from various police departments. we ll be doing that this week. governor the rough rides let somebody else ask a question. [ inaudible ]. it s going to be devastating. monday night we lost 200 businesses. most of them were minority-owned businesses. many of them didn t have insurance. hundreds of millions of dollars have been lost. people had their homes burned down businesses burned down and looted. and then the folks that didn t get a hit on monday night lost business for an entire week. and i talked to a lot of them over the past few days. a lot of people were impacted in communities throughout the city. we re going to do everything we can to help them. you think about going to church. the cardinal said this is the time for walls to come down. what kind of walls have to come down for this healing process? well you know we ve all got to come together. it s a day of unity. it s a day of reconciliation. it s a day of prayers and peace for the city of baltimore. for the people that have been affected. for freddie gray s family. for all the folks that lost their homes and businesses. for the over 100 police officers who were injured on monday night. you know one of the first things i did when i got here i went to shock trauma and saw 15 police officers that were badly injured. the sacrifice of the national guard, the police and fire that were out there protecting and serving almost 24 hours a day. a lot of people need our prayers and our thanks. the community leaders who came together the faith leaders who pitched in and continued to preach peace. i ve got prayers for everybody. and i thank god for the wisdom and strength that i got because i can tell you this is the first moment of peace i ve had in a week. we ve had almost no sleep. governor. the officers aren t convicted about more rioting in the city. this is the very beginning of the process. we don t have a role in the process but i believe in the justice system. it s going to take a long time to play out and we ll be prepared for whatever. we want the truth to come out as everybody else does and we ll see what happens when it does. thank you. thanks, guys. curfew s already been lifted. state of emergency too? governor larry hogan hey-i think we ve just learned a great deal men, in terms of the latest developments. i heard the governor say he had spoken to the mayor, that it s going to take a while to get back to a sense of normal and most significantly perhaps the drawdown of the national guard, a subject that we ve been discussing for the better part of an hour, began this morning. it s already in effect. he said 200 businesses were lost on monday night alone. hundreds of millions of dollars have been lost in the process. i think my takeaway is we have just heard during the course of this hour the political establishment declare that this is over. what remains to be seen is what happens tonight and do the protesters go along with the establishment. that s right. and also you know this entire incident has been so unusual in that you have rioting before you even have a decision any verdict or anything. that s typically what happens in these types of cases, rodney king and others. baltimore has set a new standard of how people behave when these types of incidents happen. what i think the governor also was trying to address was we don t know what s going to happen with this process, whether or not there s going to be any convictions of these six officers. and my fear is that we ll be back here again when that process wraps up. i have the same fear. what did you find significant? a boiling point here. they started rioting on monday night before any charges were leveled. i think when i talked to demonstrators out there i said why loot your own neighborhood? why do that? because you drntidn t pay attention until we did. i don t know if i understand that or agree with that completely but that s the mindset of some of those people out there causing these issues and these problems. is this a law enforcement tactic that we ve just seen unfold that if we announce we re moving on because it s over and things are better that will be the case? can we will peace? when you have 5,000 people to remove and you say you re doing it incrementally, you know, it doesn t mean that 4,900 are going to be gone by tomorrow morning. so there will be the process of drawing down will still leave people here. and they re from maryland. most of the guardsmen i talked to out here, guardsmen and women during the week were telling me they re from baltimore. so to call them back up isn t like they have to come from california or something. they re here already. yesterday i was watching the coverage when you were positioned right here. you were listening to hours of speeches. and many of them you found as a person of law enforcement background to be very uncomfortable. those speakers you heard here yesterday, some of whom were calling for anarchy, are they going to be satisfied with what they just heard from the mayor and the governor essentially saying time to move on? i don t know what would satisfy them. what the woman with a bullhorn were shouting with people cheering him on was all police are pigs all police are bad, we don t need any police, all of our brothers and sisters who were arrested claiming to burn businesses the rioters, essentially, should be let out, they re good people, and everybody should be let out of jail and all police should be either eliminated or put in jail. but i mean let s be honest i had to listen to that for two hours, evan. it was enough. he doesn t represent not even like you know what? that would be true if they stood silent and get him out of here. but there were a couple thousand people on this grass lawn over here cheering every time he said we don t need the police. again, they don t represent the majority of the people people in sand town went to work yesterday. a lot of people were not out here. and i don t think you talk to people out here, they do not agree with that. they want to be able to call the police and get help when they need it. they will when they get home. but they were out here cheering him on. the people who came here some of the people were definitely trying to voice it was a different group what we saw. a lot of outside presence anarchists anonymous types. opportunists. professional protesters michael. who came here. that s not the way to do it. you saw people coming taking the bus and coming to ferguson to try to take advantage of the situation. i think what we re saying is we hope the people who are truly representative of the community here who have to live here want peace here will not be led astray by others who ve arrived here in baltimore just for agitation purposes. those conversations of healing have already started. gentlemen, thank you so much for spending a full hour with us. we hadn t anticipated events to play out the way they did, but glad we were here live. i m michael smerconish in baltimore. remember you can follow me on twitter, @smerconish if you can spell it. frederickaricka whitfield picks up our coverage right after this break. why do we do it? 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in sanford, florida. zimmerman s defense team will pick off where it left friday. we have our legal team ahead to talk about what can be expected. at least five people are dead and police say many more deaths are expected after an unmanned train explodes and levels part of the canadian town near the u.s. border. we ll have a live report straight ahead. let s start in san francisco. investigators are trying to piece together what happened just before noon yesterday when a plane crashed on the runway. the flight recorders had been recovers. the ntsb tweeted out these photos of the flight data recorder and cockpit voice recorder. investigators hope that will give some critical clues. here s what we know about the victims. two 16-year-old girls were killed in that crash. they are chinese nationals. asiana airlines identifies them as ye mengyuan and wang linjia. a doctor at san francisco general hospital told us last hour six people there remain in critical condition including a child. officials say they re seeing severe injuries like head trauma and paralysis. the faa said this afternoon some flights destined for san francisco could be delayed up to nine hours today. dan simon joins us live from the airport. what is the latest there. dan. reporter: hi, fredericka. it s been a little more than 24 hours since this crash happened and the investigation appears to be well under way. investigators have been out to that scene trying to figure out any type of clue to determine what may have heaped here. we know, as you reported, the flight data record have been sent to washington and appear to be in good shape. hopefully data is currently being extracted from the recorders. at this point, nothing has been ruled out including pilot error. we know the ceo of the airlines say it appears there was no mechanical issue or problem with the engine either. survivors and witnesses say it appears the 7-year-old aircraft was flying too low as it approached the runway and the tail hit the sea way before it spun out of the control. the tail was detached from the airplane along with destabilizers. technology called ils helps tell pilots where the runway is, it wasn t operating at the time of the crash and not sure if that played a role. it hasn t been operating since june and pilots have been able to navigate just fine. there was no indication from the pilots there was anything from that plane. it came as a huge shock from everyone on that plane you have this incident. there will be a news conference next hour 4:30 eastern time and hopefully have more information. i wonder travelers behind you waiting in line, how nervous are people as they try to make it to their flights. reporter: you know, folks we talked to don t appear to be nervous. this is one of those things. people believe it was an isolated incident and feel pretty safe traveling. we should point out, i looked up at the monitor a little while ago, a lot of these flights appear to be on time. this runway has four airports, two operational at least this afternoon and at this terminal, flights appear to be on time, fred. dan simon, thanks so much for keeping us posted. appreciate that. shortly after passengers escaped the wreckage, some of them began recounting their ordeal right away. take a listen to what one person said. as it landed, a hard like loud noise and the masks fell down and then like i don t know severe stuff started falling down on people and everyone starts screaming. what was falling down on people? like the luggage. reporter: what were you doing at the time? i actually was pretty scared. i don t know. reporter: a lot of people getting out of their seat? what were they doing? screaming? most of them couldn t get out of their seats because they had like seatbelts. they were struggling. did you see flames? smoke? yes. before like leaving i saw some smoke in the cabin, i think. frightening moments as san francisco s fire chief said, it s nothing short of a miracle so many people walked away from this disaster. 123 in all. the concern right now falls on those who didn t come through the crash all right, especially those who remain in critical condition. c cnn s kyung lah joins us now from the hospital with the latest. we heard about the doctors earlier who talked about the head injuries and paralysis and even burns. tell us more about the status of the patients there. reporter: extensive injuries. this is a level one trauma unit in the city. the most seriously injured came here. the chief of surgery came out to speak with us. she was saying this is the largest trauma many she has ever dealt with and maybe the largest ever this hospital has ever dealt with. 53 patients were brought here in the immediate aftermath of the plane crash, 19 patients admitted and six in critical condition. one of those six is a child. as you were saying, there are extensive injuries, the most concerning head trauma and spinal injuries, two spinal injuries which resulted in some form of paralysis. the other thing she mentioned, there was something surprising about some of the injuries, it was like skin burn injuries, like they were experiencing road rash, something you might see in a motorcycle accident if they re not wearing leather to protect their skin. she said that was little surprising. if you look what these passengers went through and hear their stories, you can see how some people got those injuries looking at this wreckage. then, so often after tragedies, experiences like this, people don t want to talk. quite the opposite here. many folks eager to recount their experiences. reporter: some of the people here at this hospital and being allowed to leave, 19 are being admitted and a lot are leaving and walking through this parking lot. one of the mothers spoke with us, chatting with us, she is the mother traveling with five members of her family, seated at the rear of the plane. her 4-year-old child has a broken leg. she recounted the harrowing tail what it felt like to sit in the rear of the plane, when the tail broke off, there was such a large hole, she walked out of the rear of the plane. here s what she told us. reporter: how difficult was it to get off the plane? it s not very difficult because we sit near the plane tail, we just walk out, two rows to the big hull. the tail? it s broken. yes. a big hole. the passengers near the the plane tail just walk out from this hole. think about how extraordinary that must be to be seated at the rear of the plane and then suddenly look out, turn around and that s all gone, it s a big hole you re walking out of, carrying your injured child. this is one of the many many remarkable stories we re hearing on the go around. incredible. are doctors saying anything about whether they expect any to be released today? reporter: i m sorry. can you say that one more time? are doctors say iing anythin about whether any patients might be released today? reporter: there are other patients kind of coming and going. it s hard to say if there are going to be any more released. what the hospital would say is that the extent of the other injuries ranged from serious to fair to good. it is very possible other patients may be leaving today which will certainly be very good news. very hopeful. thanks so much, kyung lah at san francisco general hospital. we will hear from another survivor in a few minutes joining us live how he was able to walk away but he s recalling what happened in the last 24 hours, almost like a slide show that keeps come back over and over again. happening in arizona, the bodies of 19 fallen firefighters are being taken in a procession from phoenix to prescott, part of an elite hotshot group of firefighters who died last sunday fighting arizona wildfires. those fires are now about 90% contained. in egypt s capital, crowds are growing, a show of force by the opposition and muslim brotherhood. supporters of the deposed president are demanding his reinstatement while opponents of the muslim brotherhood are rallying in another part of cairo. the military is bracing for what could be a very long night, increasing security in cairo. it took 77 years, 77 years for that moment to happen. for a brit to win the wimbledon title. that s andy murray celebrating his championship over former champion novak djokovic in straight sets. murray made it to the final last year, before losing to roger federer. i think everyone remembers that. this time, after his win, murray, what did he do? he tweeted, like everybody else these days and tweeted this. can t believe what s just happened. also ecstatic for him, actor russell crowe, he tweeted as well. he tweeted andy murray, you champion, well done son. all right. what is it like to survive a plane crash? we ll be finding out from someone who was there. we ll hear from the man who took these images. he was on board flight 214 taking images after walking off that plane. what was that experience like? his thoughts right after this. i just knew we were going to have a crash and i thought, now s my time. and then when it hits the you know, the runway so hard, yeah, it was obvious. did you think anything about your life? your daughter? out there owning it. the ones getting involved and staying engaged. they re not afraid to question the path they re on. because the one question they never want to ask is how did i end up here? i started schwab for those people. people who want to take ownership of their investments, like they do in every other aspect of their lives. unh hey! let s go! [ male announcer ] you can choose to blend in. yeah! yeah! yeah! or you can choose to blend out. oh, yeah-eah! the all-new 2014 lexus is. it s your move. in cairo, the crowds are getting bigger and fierce. neither the muslim brotherhood or opposition has any interest in giving up. here s cnn s karl penhaul. reporter: i will step out of the way and show you the scene right now in tahrir square. these are opponents of the deposed president, mohamed mo i morsi, and they are gathering in tens of thousands and still arriving in the square right now. from time-to-time we see an overflight by military helicopters, apache helicopters flying over, small fighter jets flying over pumping out smoke the color of egyptian flags. that s an effort by the military to show they re on this crowd s side and a fact not lost on these people. they very much believe it s thanks to the military they were able to push mohamed morsi out of power during the week. they certainly reject the term military coup. the crowd down here very much believe the military simply stepped into politics to back the will of the people. across the other side of town right now, supporters of the deposed president are also meeting. we haven t got eyes on the go around and i can t tell you how big they are. there are tens of thousands across there as well. what they are calling for is that mr. morsi from release by s by the arms forces and be reinstated to power. it s no sign the armed forces will back down on that one. what is playing out on the streets once again tonight is a show of numbers. karl penhaul will keep us posted on that. venezuela says it s doors are open to nsa leaker ed snowden. the country has not heard from him. they extended an offer of i si lum friday. but the mm-mmm said they haven t had any communication with snowden. and venezuela said it will offer asylum if circumstances permit. the crisis in egypt all impa impacting the u.s. in one way or and the obama administration. bill richardson, former ambassador to the u.n. thank you so much. thank you. let s talk about this nsa leaker, edward snowden, bolivia, venezuela offering asylum. first, he has to get to one of those places. if he does, can the u.s. intercept him in transit? i think the u.s. has to be careful. the overflights in europe have caused these latin-american countries basically offer asylum to snowden. i have no sympathy for snowden. i think he needs to be prosecuted. i think it s right we re telling these countries, bolivia, venezuela, it s a big dent in the relationship if they take it. what i don t understand, i was at the venezuelan elections, they want time prove the new post chavez government relationship with the u.s. they said that to me. i was an election observer and said that to the administration. now, they say they re ready to take snowden. i hope venezuela reverses itself with bolivia and nicaruaga less so. i think the u.s. has to pursue our interests. what snowden did was unacceptable. you can t just decide unilaterally to leak things. it s not loyalty to the united state states. might there be double-talk involving those countries, bolivia, nicaruaga, and venezuela? they re saying publicly they offer asylum and another thing to carry through with it. i hope venezuela reverses itself. i hope it s double part on their part. these countries have been hostile to the united states. i think what provoked this, possibly i have no i m not privy to details when president morales was flying over europe maybe we said to some of our friends in europe don t let him overfly there because we think snowden is possibly there. that could have happened but since i m not privy to these details, it could have clumsily happened. what is your opinion as to this coup, some calling it a coup and some not but clearly a changing of the guard there. how involved and to what extent should the u.s. be involved? we should be involved. the administration has to walk a very thin line. let s face it. this is what we re for. we should be loyal to the rule of law, to a democratic process in elections but also the stability. what are u.s. interests? we re better off without the muslim brotherhood in power. we re better off because of the treaty with israel 1979 egypt brings stability to the israel process, the palestinian process. secondly, we need the military in egypt on terrorism issues. i think what we need to do. we have a little leverage here. we provide $1.3 billion to the egyptian military. we should push them as much as we can to make sure there a s inclusiveness in an interim government, they condone violence, they try to keep things cool. i was disappointed mohamed elbaradei who appeared to be the interim minister. i worked with him when he was secretary of the atomic energy agency. he s a democratic stable guy, ran for president and won the mobell prize. i guess he s out. he would have been a good moderate force and this is what we should be pushing for. moderation, rule of law, transparency. announced elections soon and hope a non-muslim brotherhood candidate wins i think would happen because the muslim brotherhood is so unpopular because they were not inclusive, mismanaged the economy and took over the courts. doesn t seem they re that unpopular when you look at live pictures in the crowd because the pictures we re looking atta her square apparently that does represent the muslim brotherhood and those who oppose the ousted president, morsi. in your view, is that a concern when look at that crowd or inspiration this does represent a form of democracy speaking out? it is a form of democracy, it is people expressing their views. the reality in a free and fair election in egypt, the muslim brotherhood, no chance they would win because they mismanaged their one year in office. morsi screwed up. what is needed, i believe, is the military to provide the stability that leads to a democratic process. the administration can t say we d prefer the military. i think they ve handled it well. they said we re for rule of law, for democracy. i was with some intelligence specialists in fenwick island. i think the view there is we have leverage. let s be judicious howie u we ut and i think the administration has done that so far. bill richardson, thank you for your time. we will talk more about that crash landing in san francisco. what is it like to survive something like that? we ll be talking to someone who was they re and actually took a number of images after walking off the plane. looking at the pictures, so many of us agree and have the same thought, how in the world did so many escape this disaster of that flight 214. picket pictures like these give us an idea what it was like for those scrambling out of the plane. eugene took these photos after making his way out of the hull of that plane. a very rare close-up look of the crash site and he spoke with cnn earlier. water was right there. the plane was descending like this, right? which is normal. this is the front part of the aircraft. this is the rear. there s a runway here and they suppose to come like this or i saw the plane was like this. if we go this altitude, there s 100% chance we will hit the runway before we touch the go around. reporter: were you panicking? yeah. of course. of course. i knew it. i knew. i knew it was going to happen. so i tried to hold on to, you know, whatever i could. and i hear the noise, the pilot try to send as much power as he could, try to lift the plane back up but it didn t work. so before even the plane go back up, they only lift the front part of, you know, the plane a little bit maybe. as soon as i, you know, grab, you know, anything that i could hold on to, was like, you know, bang, and impact was so powerful. luckily, i was sitting, it has one more strap coming across my chest here, in addition to the one that goes around the waist because there s a slip per sit. if i did not, i d have hit that ceiling. that s how hard the impact was. reporter: so what is that time period when you looked out the window, you saw the water and you knew. uh-huh. reporter: and it hit. how quickly did that happen? everything happened all at once, in lightning speed. i looked out and i just felt that, you know, we were too low, we were coming too low. i tried to grab something and hit, bang! and the plane was tilted like this for some time and hit the go around again. i thought, you know, that was it. i thought i m dying. and people scream and crying and, you know, it was chaos. wow. chaos. but, look at so much composure as he s telling that story, survivor eugene rah speaking to us earlier. the flight recorders from asiana flight 214 already at an ntsb lab in the washington d.c. area. they could hold critical information about what caused that crash. we ll take you for an update what investigators will be looking for. 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[ minions gasp, chuckle ] ohhh! ohhh! one day the world. no, the universe will have the pricing power they deserve. mouhahaha! mouhahaha! mouhahaha! ooh-hee-hee-hee! blaaaah! we ll work on it. wah-hah-hah! stopping at nothing to help you save. ntsb investigators are examining the flight recorders from asiana airline flight 214 a day aircraft crash landed on the runway. we re expecting to hear more from ntsb in about an hour from now. two 16-year-old girls died on that flight. they were both chinese. news outlets in china say they were students on their way to a summer camp in the u.s. at least five people are dead and police say many more deaths are expected after an unmanned train explodes and levels part of a canadian town near the u.s. border. a live report straight ahead. the george zimmerman murder trial is set to resume tomorrow in sanford, florida. the defense will continue after calling zimmerman s mother to the stand on friday. we ll bring in our own legal panel in a minute for more legal analysis. art collector charles sachi and hiss famous chef wife nigella is getting a divorce. the chef says he is seeking a breakup. it comes after photos were published of him with his hands around nigella s throat at a restaurant last month. it took 77 years for this moment to happen. [ applause ] what a final play it was. a british player, now once again, winning wimbledon title. that s andy murray right there, celebrating after beating former champion novak djokovic in straight sets. murray made it to the final last year before losing to roger federer. who can forget that? this time around, murray took to twitter after typing this. can t believe what s just happened! as we mentioned, the flight data recorders from asiana flight 214 have arrived from washington being examined by ntsb. in the meantime the go-team is on the go around at the airport in san francisco and they ve been there since early this morning. cnn a cnn s reporter is here with us this morning. what do they expect to glean from the boxes. they ve had the recorders more than six hours now and investigators will likely be targeting specific parts of the recording leading up to the crash landing. they can tell them what the pilots were doing or saying and they were even aware there was a problem. the data recording is monitoring specifics like altitude, speed, which could answer whether the plane was going too fast or slow or pilot coming in at the correct angle and also tell whether the plane s systems or engine or landing gear were working. fred. how long is it expected? we talked with a former.official earlier who said it really could be as early as this evening when they start to get a better handle of the information. is that about right? right. that s about right. the ntsb telling us likely by this afternoon, they would have a preliminary readout of what is on those two recorders. don t be surprised if when we see this press conference happen in about an hour they actually have information about what was on those recorders. so it s very possible when they give that first briefing of the day we may get some information about what they were able to find. fred. you heard dan simon reporting earlier about the instrument landing system at the airport, that it hadn t been working for some time now. might that have played a role in this? is this something investigators will be looking into? the equipment dan is talking about is the glide scope essentially out of service more than a month. it signals to the plane to provide the pilot sends signals to the plane to provide the pilot with a precise path to follow during the approach. essentially what it was to do is ensure the plane isn t either too high or too low. even though this equipment wasn t working, the ntsb chairman says planes can still land safely. take a listen. there has already been a discussion about that glide slope being out of service. but there are a number of other tools available to pilots, some less sophisticated like the lights, the precision approach lights that they were talking about that show you if you re too high or too low coming in, but also some things more technologically advanced. things on this airplane that can give you gps information. so you hear her there saying despite the fact that equipment wasn t working at the airport, planes can still land safely and just final note here, fred, again, our folks on the go around in san francisco, getting word from the ntsb whatever information comes out of this first briefing, it will be quite substantial. really? we look forward to that. thank you so much. re rene marsh from washington. now to that deadly train accident in a canadian town near the u.s. border. people are dead and missing after it rolled seven miles down a hill. it exploded and leveled a small town in quebec. more deaths are likely. cnn s jason carroll is covering the story. what are authorities saying? reporter: disturbing watching these images coming in. some sections still too dangerous for emergency crews to get there in and search. officials say they are expecting more deaths as they continue, unfolding early saturday morning when a crane pulling 70 tankers of crude oil crashed and went down hill in the quebec provi e province, lak megantic. more than 2,000 people, one woman works at a bar and many people unaccounted for says she is still searching for her friends. lac-megantic. reporter: i have no news from my friends, she says, i haven t heard from any. i can t say more than that. we re waiting for confirmation. some are calling it the run away train, confirming the train was locked down by the locomotive engineer and then left for a crew change. according to the company, the train skidded into the town unmanned. the company released a statement saying we extend heartfelt condolences to those residences of lac-megantic who have lost their homes and businesses and particularly those who lost their homes and businesses and loved ones. we will work and cooperate with government safety agencies to determine a cause. the prime minister says his office is prepared to offer whatever assistance might be needed? terribly sad. thank you. we ll be back with more on that plane crash in san francisco. the national transportation safety board is going over the flight data recorders. let s bring in todd curtis. you being a former boeing engineer, you know this plane well. based on the debris field, the aircraft appears to have struck that rock seawall at the start of the runway. what do you extrapolate based on what you ve seen? very clearly because it struck the seawall over 1,000 feet from the likely intended landing point. it s clear it was possibly too low, and flying different than it should have. they wanted to have a particular path through the sky, weren t able to maintain that path and at the last minute, weren t able to get enough altitude to avoid that wall. would that be an unstabilized approach because of the execution of that landing or might it be any kind of mechanical failure of that plane short of that runway? is there a way to know? it s hard to see a any without getting the information from the cockpit voice recorder and flight data recorder, it s hard to know what because given that the weather was relatively clear and that in fact they were flying under visual flight rules, it should have been a relatively straightforward approach for an airline pilot to make unless there s something else going on with the aircraft or indications in the cockpit to mislead the pilot to fly the way they did. for a flight like this, 10 hours from seoul to san francisco, it s not unusual that the plane would be on auto pilot. upon approach, a landing like this at san francisco, might the pilots be in total control? it would no longer be on au autopilot, correct? that s correct. during the beginning and takeoff and end of the flight during landing, pilots have a lot more input what s going on than during the cruise portion. because this was a relative ly good condition day, this would not be one they rely on automated systems to do most of the work for them. based on everything you heard from eyewitness accounts, witnesses saying they saw the nose pitched up or passengers on the plane who talk about the scraping sound and the plane hitting the go around and it appeared maybe the pilot was trying to correct and go back up into the air, of all the stuff you have heard, is there a way you can kind of surmise or kind of finalize what may have potentially happened here? what went wrong? the one report i really listened to closely was from the passengers, more than one said before it struck the wall there was a sound of the engine schooling up, trying to power. that s consistent trying to gain altitude or airspeed to get above that wall and the other is the gi met tri call fact. in a normal approach, normal landing, the first thing to touch would be the landing gear. in this case, it looks like the tail of the aircraft was the first thing to hit the go around, which says to me, at the very end of the flight, that perhaps the angle the aircraft had was considerably greater than you usually have on a normal landing. todd curtis, thank you so much. we do understand the flight data recorders are being evaluated right now. preliminarily we could he hear at least the ntsb might have a better idea what might or might not have happened as early as this afternoon or evening. perhaps they ll make it public. we re not quite sure and thanks for your input and we ll have you back here to understand all the bits and pieces. appreciate that. next, we re heading to florida where george zimmerman s defense team takes center stage again tomorrow. they ve already presented two key witness, families of george zimmerman. after this. 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ask your doctor about once-a-day xarelto®. for more information including cost support options, call 1-888-xarelto or visit goxarelto.com. the george zimmerman murder trial is set to resume tomorrow in sanford, florida and when the defense resumes calling it s case. they started by calling george zimmerman s mother to the stand. joining me, our host from radio. it was very interesting. now the defense gets to resume it s week after maybe blowing a bit of a hole into the prosecution s day on friday. how does it maintain that kind of momentum? i think they re going probably recall some of the prosecution witnesses. for example, i think they ll probably recall jonathan good, the person who testified that he saw trayvon martin on top of george zimmerman. he s the one that and i think that s somebody that will defense is going to recall. because what we saw quite often is of the prosecution witnesses, they almost turn in to defense witnesses. yes. so it bodes well for the defense. so it sounds like, mo, the defense doesn t have to do very much in terms of calling creative witnesses. does it? i wouldn t say they don t have to do very much. they should continue being strong. i hate to say it business the defense has had a good last week and i think this is a unique opportunity for the prosecution to come really hard and fast on cross-examinations. this is where they can break apart the defense witnesses and hoping that the long weekend is an opportunity to, you know, get themselves together. regroup and come back on cross-examination in a way that we haven t really seen them do on direct. both sides in florida during the breaks like weekends can depose witnesses and say if they say inconsistent with something they said on the stand or depose new witnesses that may be called. do you think the prosecution is rethinking this weekend its strategy or perhaps does the defense even have to use this weekend or has it used this weekend to say, you know what? we need to change the strategy. things unfolded quite differently than i think the general public expected it to. yes. i m sure both sides have rethought strategy. the prosecution, unfortunately, really only has cross and closing but the defense at this point really has a wide open door to present witnesses that can present testimony that creates that reasonable doubt. i think we are there with the reasonable doubt and they ll do anything in the power to create more idea. i think the prosecution i mean, you can t call them finished and done yet. there s a long way to go and there s important testimony that came from trayvon s mother, brother, that kind of will give what s that in your view? just the change idea that trayvon was a street kid just out and up to no good. this is a college educated family and takes everything seriously and i don t think we got that before his mother came on and his brother came on and that changed why does that matter? he wasn t a suspect of anything. he was just walking through the neighborhood. sure. it matters because of how the prosecution witnesses like rachel jeantel, for example, really damaged the image of trayvon and what he was doing and they brought it back home this is a very good, upstanding kid and i think that will go to, you know, why was george zimmerman really doing that? maybe he was going of and profiling trayvon. i think it s a big impact. i think the prosecution rather than just the defense has a unique opportunity to change things this week if they handle the cross-examinations correctly. carrie, we have heard testimony this past week from witnesses that talked about whether it was what they saw or heard who was on top and bottom. right. what does it really matter when the bottom line is one was armed and the other was not? because of the florida law and the florida law is unique in some ways because it says even if somebody started out aggressor, if they re a victim at some point in an altercation such that they were in fear of their bodily safety and they believed that they were going to suffer a serious bodily harm they are justified in taking a life. armed or not armed, if that agrgressor was a victim at some point, he could useletal force. i don t think at all anything we heard this week whether he was moved or he was on top, has changed the fact that george zimmerman was the aggressor. i don t think that swayed the testimony to say, oh my gosh, really, trayvon was the aggressor. i think the jurors are seeing it that way and i feel from hearing people that were in the courtroom talking about the reaction from the jurors that the jurors are a little bit more pro prosecution this week. dy i disagree, actually. the definition of an aggressor is different and may not be physical aggression. all right. thanks so much. we ll see how the week unfolds and hopefully talk to you next weekend, as well. thanks so much. web ta have been talking ab the san francisco crash landing. new images to bring you right after the break. back to our developing story, the crash landing in san francisco. extraordinary, new, exclusive video of the plane coming in for a landing. dan simon has more on this. dan? reporter: hi, fredericka. we obtained the video of fred hays. he is an aviation buff. he had gone to a place where you could see these planes taking off and landing. and he was able to capture the crash on video. let s play that for you right now. look at him. hmm. that yeah, he does. look at that one! look how his nose is up in the air. oh my god! oh, it s an accident. oh, you re filming it, too. oh my god! oh no! oh my god! you re filming it! oh my god! oh my god! oh my god! you filmed the whole thing. oh lord have mercy. well, that is pretty dramatic stuff, fredericka. when you look at that video, i have had a chance to view it a few times now, you can clearly see that plane coming in low and then the tail of the aircraft striking that sea wall. what you re seeing on that video, accurately portrays exactly what we have been hearing from the witnesses and survivors of that plane. this is very dramatic video. this is exclusive video we just got in. i assume we re still seeing the images. you can hear the reaction from the amateur photographer that s fred hays capturing that video. the first images that we are seeing. i would imagine that investigators will be interested in taking a look at this video, as well, as they try to piece together what, in fact, happened there. dan, that is incredible. it definitely does seem to demonstrate exactly what so many eyewitnesss said, that when they saw that plane coming in. the nose was pitched up. you heard it from the audio, fred hay fred hayes and clearly no problem with the landing because you have another plane on an active runway ready for takeoff. dan simon, you will tell us more about this. i m fredericka whitfield. thank you, dan, for that exclusive image there of that plane in that crash landing there at san francisco airport. we ll have much more straight ahead from the newsroom. all right. don lemon in new york. don? all right. thank you very much. i m don relon. the newsroom starts right now. we ll start where we left off with dan. we want to play the video for you now. look at him. hmm. yeah, yeah, he does. look at that one. look how his nose is up in the air. oh my god! oh, it s an accident! you re filming it, too. oh my god. oh no! oh my god. oh my god! oh my god! oh my god.
what firefighters are doing to stop them. also the president ready toy crack down on greenhouse gas emissions. this major climate change plan has many seeing red. and is joe ready to go? talk biden might launch another presidential bid. how that can shake up the race. let s talk in the cnn news room. good monday morning! i m poppy harlow in for carol costello. thank you for being with me. we begin with the unnerving story. for the third time in three days airline pilots are reporting a close call with an unmanned drone. the latest incident from last night once again at jfk airport in new york city. one of the busyiest airports in the country. we talk with a veteran airline pilot who flew out and into jfk this weekend. a 777 pilot has logged more than 18,000 hours in the cockpit. he s a cnn aviation analyst. you flew out of jfk to london. i did. it didn t happen to you but it happened to three different planes reported. potentially more. when you look at the rules of the road here when it comes to drones they have to be five miles clear of any airport, they can t fly above 400 feet. why does this keep happening? it s the technology is such that people can afford these toys that go to incredible altitudes. there are some that go all the way up to 13,000 feet. for the price of $3500 for the toys. why it s happening it just sounds like complete irresponsibility to me. take me into the cockpit. if it were to happen to your commercial airliner, i mean, what happened with the two incidents over the weekend the drones were within 100 feet. it s unclear how close the one was last night. what do you do? you can t exactly veer off course. you have to talk to air traffic controller controller controllers. it is tough you re in a stabilized position. if you have to maneuver the airport you can to get away from the particular object or another airplane for instance but that being said listen if a drone hits an airplane more than likely the drone is going to lose. however, we talked about this before. if it goes into an engine there s a possibility of that kind of ingestion possibly shutting down the engine. even if that happens we re trained to fly the airplane on one engine. it can hit the wind screen and crack the outer pane of the wind screen. it will cause a visibility problem. that being said for the most part we can maneuver away from this particular object if we see it. they re very small. this is the last thing you as a pilot want to think about flying your plane. we re dealing with the environment, we re dealing with weather, now we re dealing with lay zor strikes, drones and security concerns. sure. what can be done? because you have the faa that regulates planes and regulates the drones. a lot of folks have said the regulation here just isn t in line with how fast the technology for these drones is becoming and how assessable they are. i agree. my suggestion has been let s register these things. let s license the people flying them. if you don t have a license, that there s a fine a penalty, possible jail term. at least we have some form of accountability. at this point, we really don t. unfortunately, you know, it takes away from the people that are responsible that are radio control hobbyhobbyists. right. it does. you pointed out you believes it people believes it is people making dumb moves. you re talking about jfk airport in new york city. that s is a way people with bad intentions could test the waters. absolutely. a couple of weeks ago we saw a young man that put a gun on a drone. so, you know yes, it s indeed possible. we can carry it one step further and it could be a nefarious act. thank you very much. appreciate it. to california now where the sun is about to rise but across much of the state it will have to breakthrough the smoke. there are nearly two dozen wild fires burning in northern california right now racing across drought-parched landscape from one end of the state to the other. the most ferocious the rocky fire grows more dangerous by the hour. fire officials are warning of the day ahead. let s get the latest from stefanie in cue lou is aolusa county. the sun is giving a little bit of light here poppy. you can see what the terrain looks like. behind me is the big bulldozer. the fire is 5% contained and they want to see if they can contain the fire and stop the progress. reporter: flames crackling spreading into the night. overnight lightning, wind and low humidity fuelling the flames. at least 21 wild fires are burning across california exacerbated by the state s drought. more than 9,000 firefighters battling the flames. the state s largest wild fire the rocky fire ravaging counties north of san francisco. this inferno already incinerating more than 50,000 acres. there are firefighters that have 20 25 30 years on the job that have never seen fire behavior like we ve seen the last couple days here. reporter: firefighters using many resources to try to tame the fire. some crews actually using tools to set fires. this to prevent the progress of a fire by taking away its fuel. we re standing along california 16 and what they want to do is contain the fire so it doesn t jump across this road. a lot of fires, backfires being built on the opposite side. as you take a look at the active fire here you can see the wind is pushing it. reporter: thousands of people and structures under evacuation. we got out of the meeting and it looked like a bomb had went off over here. reporter: as dozens of res residences and buildings are left smoldering. everyone s houses are ashes now that we know. reporter: and when you take a look at the conditions that these firefighters are dealing with it s soaring up to 100 degrees. they re all suited up. now the sun is coming up i m starting to feel the wind build up as well. that wind is really part of the problem because it just helps to spread the embers and blow the fire along and into different places. that s one thing they re trying to battle and contain the fire but just a massive explosion over the weekend up to this 54,000 acres that have been burned. we saw one firefighter lose his life trying to battle the flames over the weekend. our thanks to everyone out there doing their best to contain it. i want to talk more about this now and the latest on the firefighting efforts across the state. daniel daniel daniel thank you for being with me sir. good morning. give me a sense of the latest tally on the number of acres burned and also the winds that stefanie talked about and just how much worse those gusting winds could make this. caller: well, as she mentioned, right now we re fighting nearly two dozen wild fires up-and-down the state. northern california being hit the hardest. it s the dry condition allowing the fires to grow at such an explosive rate. the rocky fire the largest fire of the year so far. well over 50,000 acres burned. we continue over the next couple of months will only get drier. the risk of the wild fires will only go higher. how thinly stretched are your resources right now trying to fight the flames? caller: as you can imagine with well over 9,000 firefighters on the front lines, we are incredibly busy. here in california governor brown signed a state of emergency. he gave us extra firefighters to battle this exact scenario. we brought in the california national guard. we have a lot of resources. is it enough? are the resources enough now that you have the governor declaring that state of emergency over the weekend which unlox some of the extra funds? caller: absolutely. we re aggressively attacking with resources that we have here. we also have more resources available to us that respond to the initial attack fires. we talk about two dozen fires, but that s not the hundreds of fires that we re responding to each week that we re able to keep relatively small with the other personnel and firefighters. daniel verlund, thank you very much. we appreciate what you re doing. still to come here in the newsroom armed and dangerous. you re looking at a photograph of a man suspected of gunning down a police officer over the weekend. this man is still on the loose. that story ahead. listen up. i m reworking the menu. mayo, corn dogs. you are so out of here! ahh. the complete balanced nutrition of great tasting ensure. with nine grams of protein. and 26 vitamins and minerals. ensure. take life in. every auto insurance policy has a number. but not every insurance company understands the life behind it. those who have served our nation. have earned the very best service in return. usaa. we know what it means to serve. get an auto insurance quote and see why 92% of our members plan to stay for life. many wrinkle creams come with high hopes, but hope. doesn t work on wrinkles. neutrogena® rapid wrinkle repair has the fastest retinol formula. to work on fine lines and even deep wrinkles in just one week. neutrogena®. mum. just tap it. i did! (yo gabba gabba!) i called for help as soon as i saw her. i found her wandering miles from home. when the phone rang at 5am i knew it was about mom. i see how hard it s been on her at work and i want to help. for the 5 million americans living with alzheimer s and millions more who feel its effects. let s walk together to make an even bigger impact and end alzheimer s for good. find your walk near you at alz.org/walk. once there was a hushpuppy by dan romer and ben zeitlin is man kind? are we good? go see. go look through their windows so you can understand their views. go find out just how kind the hes and shes of this mankind are. a manhunt underway for the killer of a memphis police officer. cnn obtained frantic audio alerting police that the officer had been shot. i m going to read over it. it s hard to understand. here is what it says. it starts by saying summer lain. he s shot. the dispatch officer said officer is shot. the dispatch says nowed a size advising. the person calling it in said call the balance. call ambulance. i need an ambulance now. the audio ends with the dispatcher saying officer down at that location. we are talking about officer shawn bolton. funeral arrangements are pending for him. he was murdered saturday night during a traffic stop. he s 33 years old. he is the third memphis officer to die in the line of duty in just four years. police right now looking for this man 29-year-old tremaine wil wil wilbourn. a reward has been offered for his capture. officer bolton apparently interrupted a drug deal. officer bolton apparently interrupted some sort of drug transaction. digital scale and a small bag of marijuana about 1.7 grams were located inside the vehicle. nick valencia joins me with the latest. it reminds you that the officers put their lives on the line. reporter: the 29-year-old tremaine on the run now considered ampled and danger edarmed and dangerous. he was on supervised probation. ten years sentenced for an armed robbery of a bank. we know he was involved for what it seems, according to police in a small time drug transaction about 1.7 grams of marijuana. equivalent to about $20 street value. essentially the 33-year-old officer was killed over $20. bolton an iraq war veteran served overseas to protect america s freedom only to be gunned down on the street the of them mis. memphis. a second person turned themselves in. there was a little bit of conclusioncon confusion confusion. what do we know about the other person who turned themselves into police? initially named a person of interest. he was questioned by police and later released. we don t know what information was gleaned from that person. he may have been the last person to see 29-year-old tremaine. the man driving the car the witness to the shooting was that tremaine wilbourn was named a suspect. still on the run today a $10,000 reward is being offered for any information leading to his capture. a very difficult period of time for the memphis police department. in the last four years they ve had three police officers killed in the line of duty. and this officer just five years on the job 33 years old. nick thank you. reporter: you bet. new mexico churches are on alert following two separate explosions in churches. both happening during sunday services. officials say one device ploexed in a mailbox. the other inside a trash can. luckily no one was hurt. it s unclear if the blasts are connected to one another. the fbi is investigating. a sad story to tell you about. a 9-year-old bat boy has died after being struck in the head by a bat. kaiser carlisle was helping retrieve bats for a collegiate baseball team in kansas when the accident happened. the team is crushed by his death. they dedicated their win to his memory. police are searching are searching for two people who opened fire at a house party and killed two people. you can see one of the suspects walking there. in a different frame you can see a different man fire off multiple rounds. two victims were shot in the neck. they are in stable condition. heavy monsoon rains have killed at least 47 people in me began myanmar. a half a foot of rain fell on the area. it s happening in eastern india. 48 people were killed due to flooding. more bad weather on the way. still to come to politics now. joe biden getting a lot of attention this weekend. will he run in 2016? there s talk that he could launch another presidential bid. how do democrats feel about that? next. woman: this is not exactly what i expected. man: definitely more murdery than the reviews said. captain obvious: this is a creepy room. man: oh hey, captain obvious. captain obvious: you should have used hotels.com. their genuine guest reviews are written by guests who have genuinely stayed there. instead of people who lie on the internet. son: look, a finger. captain: that s unsettling. man: you think? captain: all the time. except when i sleep. which i would not do here. hotels.com would have mentioned the finger. many wrinkle creams come with high hopes, but hope. doesn t work on wrinkles. neutrogena® rapid wrinkle repair has the fastest retinol formula. to work on fine lines and even deep wrinkles in just one week. neutrogena®. my name is peter tran. i m a gas service representative. i ve been with pg&e nine years. as an employee of pg&e you always put your best foot forward to provide reliable and safe service and be able to help the community. we always have the safety of our customers and the community in mind. my family is in oakland, my wife s family is in oakland so this is home to us. being able to work in the community that i grew up in, customers feel like friends, neighbors and it makes it a little bit more special. together, we re building a better california. we re learning more this morning about president obama authorizing u.s. air strikes in syria to back the rebel fighters. let s go to the pentagon where we find barbara star. i know this broke on friday. we are getting more details on the strikes. what are we learning? reporter: good morning. more details indeed. the president has authorized u.s. coalition air strikes to defend rebel fighters on the ground in northern syria. there are several groups up there that the u.s. is looking to defend against isis against al the al qaeda group up there. a compound came under attack. the two groups of rebels were there. the u.s. trained and equipped and another group that the u.s. is supporting. the president authorizing u.s. air strikes to defend that group ata compound when they came under attack from this al qaeda group. it s gotten a lot of attention for a couple of reasons. we re seeing u.s. air strikes defending additional rebel forces and we re seeing this group come under attack by al noose are a. the u.s. thought that they would attack them in that part of northern syria. as one official said to me at the end of the day they are more anti-u.s. perhaps than they anticipated. so that strike coming a bit of a surprise. looking to embarrass the united states by attacking the rebels that the obama administration is supporting. i think what is so interesting here is that it may not layw lay the ground work for additional strikes in the area. what i was going to ask. what your sources are telling you at the pentagon. what you read from this in terms of the larger strategy by the united states in the region. what does this tell us? northern syria right now is a great question. northern syria where all of this is happening very much in the u.s. military cross hairs. northern syria is a stronghold of isis. two towns up there aleppo as well as the stronghold of another group. the kurds have been making a lot of progress in fighting isis. the u.s. supporting the kurds able to do air strikes much closer from southern turkey. a lot of effort in the coming weeks expected to get the rebels up and running and push isis even further back. it s the place to watch right now. absolutely. barbara starr, thank you. republican presidential hopefuls blasting president obama s ambitious plan to combat climate change. some threatening to go to court to block it. he hasn t even officially unveiled it yet. i think it s a disaster. it s taking it s typical of the obama administration taking executive power he doesn t have. it will make utilities and the cost of electric higher for millions of americans. if there s a billionaire who is pro environmental they can probably afford for their electric bill to go up. it you re a single mom in tampa, florida and your electric bill goes up by $30 a month that s cats trofblg catastrophic. if you look at the satellite data in the last 18 years there s been zero recorded warming. you re not saying global warming isn t real? i m saying the data and facts don t support it. there you have it some of the responses that came out yesterday after it was unveiled. the president making a formal announcement a little bit later today to announce what is known as the clean power plan. that comes this afternoon. let s go to the white house where we find cnn white house correspondent michelle can zin ski. no surprise it s going to be criticized. it cuts down party lines. i expect we ll hear from energy ceos about this. reporter: right. walk us through the big headlines on the proposal. reporter: yeah. you knew it was going to happen surrounding the subject. this is what i m still here not only that but i m still going to get stuff done kind of things that president obama has wanted to do in the fourth quarter of his presidency. could he get it done if congress had a say in it? nope. therein lies a lot of criticism. they are putting out big numbers surrounding this. they re saying it s going to cut carbon emissions specific will i from powerplants by 32% over 2005 levels by the year 2030 and saying it s going to have expansive effects even medically it s going to cut down on premature death due to emissions. i saw 90% over 2005. childhood asthma attacks by 90,000. it will generate a new focus on clean energy. that s the opposite of what krit sicks s critics are saying. here is president obama in a video that the white house put out. powerplants are the single biggest source of the harmful pollution that contributes to climate change. until now there have been no federal limits to the amount of pollution the plants can dump into the air. it you believe, like i do we can t condemn our kids and grand kids to a planet beyond fixing and i m asking you to share the message with your friends and family. reporter: absolutely people are going to jump all over this. we re hearing it from republicans, from the sound bytes you play there had, from the mining industry from climate change doubters deniers, some states are threatening to sue the administration over this but the white house is saying we are giving states time. they don t have to come up with a plan to reduce these emissions until late next year. then they have years and years to extend it or slowly phase it in. the white house is saying states have plenty of time to accomplish this. it s interesting, michelle thinking back to what senator lindsey graham and other gop contenders said in the past few months. he talked about his party and he said, you know we have energy plans. we don t have environmental plans as a party. you know when you look back to 2012 the issue of climate change didn t come up in a debate. we ve got a big debate on thursday. does this force the issue? reporter: absolutely. just from what we re hearing already, the president is going to do this now. we re in the early throes of this campaigning. of course those questions will come up. it s adding fuel to the fire, so to speak is that a bad pun? s it it is a big issue. the white house has cared about very much. it s grown and grown as we ve seen national disasters and especially hot summers. the fires going on in california those things too, have generated more debate over this. it s just like oil and water there. those who say the facts show that climate change is real and it s manmade, and the other side who says the facts show just the opposite. what about this as part of obama s president obama s legacy building? reporter: yeah this is one of those big things he s wanted to accomplish. we ve seen him in the past act unilaterally generally on climate change on pollution, but clearly this is something that he really wanted to get done and do it in this kind of big unveiling sort of way. we re going to hear from him this afternoon in a couple of hours, and i m curious, too, to hear how strongly he s going put it out there. is he going to directly confront some of those climate change doubts that out there as we ve seen him do in the past year. as we know he s been speaking extremely boldly and seemingly off the cuff or speaking more to his state of mind than we ve heard him do in the past couple of years. it could be a pretty interesting statement today. again, we re also going to hear the strong views from the other side on this poppy. i would safely assume this is going to be a debate that rages on and on. thank you, michelle at the white house for us. some political observers called joe biden the most influential vice president in u.s. history. now members of his inner circle are urging biden to make an attempt at the top spot. a race to jump in the race for the white house. one of his biggest supporters was his late son beau you see him there embracing his father at the 2008 convention. beau biden died of brain cancer two months ago. shortly before his death, beau biden urged his father to run. here is what a friend of the vice president, who has known him for a long time told my colleague chris cuomo about a bid this morning. i sincerely believe that beau biden did have that discussion with his father and i maybe beau worried that his father after leaving the white house, would not find something challenging for him. he worried about his father maybe mourning him. and i know that beau and i and hunter and the entire family joe biden, my bucket list which is supposed to be more me. on my bucket list is joe biden being president of the united states. my passion for that is so strong. i can t write him a big check if he decides to run, but i ll match my passion for that money day. joining me now to discuss is cnn white house correspondent and cnn political reporter. thank you for being here. suzanne, several democrats telling us at cnn that biden has yet to rule out a campaign. may wait until after the month to decide. the spokeswoman for the white house calling the speculation over the weekend about 2016 bid premature and appropriate. when is it too late? it s getting close to that time. i have to tell you a brief story here. i had a chance to talk with the late beau biden when it was obama inauguration celebration. it was a time when joe biden made a gap, a public gaffe referring to himself as the president instead of the vice president. it s clear he wanted this for a long time with two former attempts. and that beau has been supportive as well as his son hunter of making that happen for their father. it s been very very special and intimate in their family. what i ve been told by a source a biden source, is that it s going to be a family decision. joe biden is not there yet. he s not yet decided or made that decision but they will get together with his wife jill and his son hunter and other relatives, and make that decision within a month month and a half or so. this is something that is close to all of them. as you know his sister was the campaign manager, and his niece the political director. we ve also seen one of beau s staffers jumping in on this draft biden movement. s it getting ing it is getting close and a lot of people who would have supported biden have been gobbled up by the clinton machine in terms of building that staff and even quietly some of the commitments that have not been made public by people who will be public later saying they will vote and go ahead and support hillary clinton. he doesn t have those people anymore. when you look at the latest national polling, what it shows is hillary clinton at 51% unfavorable versus joe biden at just 39% unfavorable. some might say do those stubbornly negative numbers on the unfavorability rating for clinton mean there s room here? that s right. i talked to some sources in this sort of riden with biden movement. they talked about how biden compares to clinton and what kind of run he would make vis-a-vis hillary clinton. they used words like honest trust worthy humble. someone said that joe biden is one of us. they used the phrase biden family values they see biden being able to run in a way different than hillary clinton. hillary clinton has the negative numbers when it comes to being viewed as trust worthy. people say they don t quite know her. she s had problems with her campaign generating that enthusiasm and a sense of connection. if you look at the internal poll numbers, they say people don t think that hillary clinton represents or relates to people like them. that s another thing. in some ways joe biden s candidacy was seen if something happened with the hillary clinton campaign he would be on the shelf there and able to jump in. that looks like what they re thinking about, i think, the issue there is everything laid out there. the family might want him to run. there s not a groundswell of support among democratic grassroots. how do you excite people to get out and on board especially the later you jump in. talking about hillary clinton she s released her first ad for 2016. one of them she pays tribute to her late mother dorothy. i want to play part of that. when she needed a champion someone was there. i think about all the dorothys all over america who fight for their families who never give up. that s why i m doing this. that s why i have always done this. for all the dorothy s. i m hillary clinton and aapprove this message. you covered the clinton white house. what are your thoughts on the ad? hillary clinton hasn t changed all that much since i covered her as first lady in 2008 when she was running before. it s all in the packaging and the emphasis here. we did see her mother dorothy, the last time she ran and she was a special part of the campaign. but i have to say she wasn t a big large part of the campaign or the messaging for that matter. we actually saw something that was more the emphasis of the diplomatic leader the traveler as first lady the person who was ready to take that 2:00 in the morning phone call the can-do person ready to lead at a moment s notice. it was not the mom, the grandmother, that kind of image. it s clear that she s trying to appeal to women. she s trying to appeal to the mad rate moderates, the independents and she needs those people to feel she s trust worthy and somebody they can count on and depend on and is not going to knock you over the head with her message there. it is different than what we saw in 2008. thank you both. thank you. still to come the large piece of debris that was found on an island beach is now in a french laboratory, but why are they waiting days to examine it if it could be part of mh 370. everyone loves the picture i posted of you. at&t reminds you it can wait. flonase allergy relief nasal spray outperforms the #1 non-drowsy allergy pill. most allergy pills only control one inflammatory substance, flonase controls six. so you are greater than your allergies. flonase. six is greater than one. this changes everything. the wreckage from earlier is confirmed to be the flaperon from boeing 777. that was earlier this morning confirming the debris found on the remote island in the indian ocean is from a boeing 777 plane that is the same type of plane that went missing 17 months ago malaysian airlines flight 370. the clock is ticking for the french officials investigating the part. cnn is live in paris this morning. i think what has been surprising to many is the experts who are vowing to get the work done, quote, quickly, are waiting until wednesday to start. why? reporter: i think they want to take their time and make a me meticulous look at this part. i don t think there s any expert that has any doubt this is part of mh 370 because they don t fall off airplanes. there s only one been crash of a 777 in that part of the world and it was mh 370. i don t think there s any real doubt about that. i think more what they re looking into and their expertise is going to be concerned with is what the damage part can tell about the crash itself. one of the things that happened here is flight 447 the france flight on the way from brazil that disappeared in the atlanta. one of the first pieces of debris picked out of the ocean was a food service cart. it had trays inside that collapsed on top of each other. later after they found the cockpit voice recorder they discovered in fact because the plane pancaked into the ocean. it had no forward speed it stalled at altitude. it was not something confirmed by the food service cart. it was not confirmed until they found the data recorders. what answers will it give and what outstanding questions will there be for the mourning families for the 329 people on board. jim bitterman, thank you. the debris continues to wash ashore on reunion island, none of the orether objects have been linked to 370. erin mclaughlin is on scene. reporter: the search is on not just here at reunion island but other islands as well. as well as nearby islands over 1200 islands away. the coast guard combing the water for clues. we heard from malaysian s transportation minister tweeting out saying the area is consistent with drift pattern analysis conducted by experts. so they re appealing to authorities for help in identifying any potential debris. over the weekend here on reunion island volunteers working the beaches trying to find any clues of mh 370, but it s difficult, pain staking work. especially when you consider the ocean is vast and there s plenty of garbage, plenty of room for false alarm. in a nearby town where they located the original flaperon they brought 10 to 12 items. officials discounting them saying they have nothing to do with the planes. people here are dedicated to helping to solve this mystery. erin thank you for that. still to come on the newsroom outrage continues to grow over the death of cecil the lion. now another american now standing accused of killing a second lion illegally in april. did you know that meeting your daily protein needs actually helps to support your muscle health? 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great proposal! let s talk more over golf! great. better yet, how about over tennis? even better. a game changer! your 2 o clock is here. oops, hold your horses. no problem. la quinta inns & suites is ready for you, so you ll be ready for business. the ready for you alert, only at lq.com. laquinta! for over 60,000 california foster children, having necessary school supplies can mean the difference between success and failure. the day i start, i m already behind. i never know what i m gonna need. new school new classes, new kids. it s hard starting over. to help, sleep train is collecting school supplies for local foster children. bring your gift to any sleep train and help a foster child start the school year right. not everyone can be a foster parent but anyone can help a foster child. officials in zimbabwe now accusing a second american of illegally killing a lion. they say a pennsylvania doctor took part in a hunt in april similar to the one that led to the death of cecil, one of the country s most beloved lions. meanwhile, the country of zimbabwe pushing the united states to hand over dentist dr. palmer from minnesota to zimbabwe for trial because they say that he illegally tracked and killed cecil. cnn s david mckenzie is live in johannesburg south africa. let s first address the second case. this is involving an american doctor. why are we just learning about it now if this hunt allegedly happened back in april? reporter: well it s a very good question poppy. good morning. you know the zimbabwean parks authorities are saying this hunter in april killed a lion illegally. they say they have arrested the safari group owner who was in charge of that hunt and they are using the terminology that it was somehow similar to the issue ever cecil the lion being kilgd but killed but it s interesting it s taken so long for this to come out because effectively until this past weekend the rules hadn t really changed very much. if the person had been something illegal, one would have heard about it one would think you would hear about it a few months ago but there s been an enormous amount of attention, spotlight on this country, on this issue of hunting, so that s perhaps why they re going through all their records and now naming this doctor right now, but they haven t, in fact put out any allegations specifically against this person. poppy? right. or his full name and identity. looking at dr. palmer out of minnesota, the dentist that is wanted in zimbabwe for killing cecil the lion look there s been a white house petition that s now gotten 200,000 signatures to extradite him. does it look david, like the united states will extradite him to stand trial in zimbabwe? reporter: well look never say never, poppy, but in this case experts say it s probably unlikely that the u.s. will hand over dr. palmer to zimbabwe for a couple reasons. one is the nature of this alleged offense. it is of course serious, the fact that it is a poaching offense, could get ten years in zimbabwe but, you know, it s not really in the realm of the kind of issues that would get someone sent out of their home country to a foreign country to face trial. there s also the issue of zimbabwe proper. the justice system there has been accused of rights abuses in the prisons. there are more than 80 people and institutions under sanctions list in zimbabwe. so there is a bit of politics here i think in terms of accusing this second american. whether it turns out to be that this person was acting illegally or not, you know they are scoring political points in zimbabwe by pointing the finger to the u.s. it s a very important point. you have to think about the sort of ruler, rocket ma gaby and whether or not the u.s. wants a u.s. citizen tried in that justice system. i don t believe anyone from the u.s. has ever been extradited to zimbabwe zimbabwe. we ll see what happens in this case and no one has even either directly from dr. palmer since all this broke. david mckenzie, thank you. the next hour of newsroom begins after a quick break. and sometimes, i just don t eat the way i should. so i drink boost® to get the nutrition that i m missing. boost complete nutritional drink has 26 essential vitamins and minerals including calcium and vitamin d to support strong bones and 10 grams of protein to help maintain muscle. all with a great taste. i don t plan on slowing down any time soon. stay strong. stay active with boost®. good morning. i m poppy harlow in today for carol costello. thank you for being with me. we begin this monday morning with a story that is unnerving for any of you that boards an airplane. for the third time in three days airline pilots are reporting a close call with an unmanned drone. this latest incident from last night once again at new york s jfk airport, one of the busiest air spaces in the nation. let s bring in aviation correspondent rene marsh in washington. rene rene, this is an airport i fly in and out of a lot. so many people do. three times in three days these drones spotted by commercial pilots. what s going on? reporter: that s what the faa and port authority want to know because obviously there are very clear rules against this sort of thing. we know this latest incident includes the crew of a flight america flight. they were coming in for a landing when they say they saw a drone on the left side of the aircraft. now an investigation is under way. of course this all happened after friday drones got too close for comfort with two other commercial aircraft. again friday we re talking about near one of the nation s busiest air spaces there in new york city. on friday a drone came within 100 feet of passenger planes. there was a jetblue pilot who said thatthe drone passedjust below the plane s nose. when the jet was flying at an altitude of about 800 to 900 feet and then a delta pilot was preparing to land when that pilot reported seeing a drone below its right wing. i want to get back to this most recent incident. we have sound at the moment this pilot noticed that something wasn t quite right. take a listen. there s a drone on the runway. okay. behind us. 30 feet. left or right? left side. little black quad copter. consider straight ahead. say again. that drone is on the edge of the runway. all right. so the drone on the edge of the runway. as you know take off and landing the most critical phases of flight. so they are obviously a safety concern. there are rules in place, poppy. you should not be flying a drone within five miles of an airport at least not without notifying the airport or control tower. you re supposed to be flying below 400 feet and, again, away from commercial aircraft. clearly whoever was operating that in full violation of these rules. here is the thing though rene people aren t going to do things as often when they have really harsh penalties for doing it it. if authorities track down who is doing this what are the penalties? there s civil penalties the faa can lodge against an individual and that has been done before but here is the thing, often times it s very difficult to trace back who is responsible, and i have seen that case happen time and time again in which they ve been able to find the actual drone but they can t find the operator because the operator was not within line of sight of this technology and so there is the difficulty in trying to find who is behind it but we are told that they are actively trying to find out who is behind these latest incidents, poppy. absolutely. rene mar, shall, thanks for the reporting. in memphis, tennessee, an all-out search under way at this moment for a killer of a city police officer. a witness used the officer s own news to relay the news that the officer had been shot. you are on the same scene. it was a traffic stop. it was a traffic stop he was on. the subject bailed out. you are advising that the officer is down or the suspect? call the ambulance! call the ambulance! the ambulance is already en route. you can hear the des tration in that person s voice calling for help for officer sean bolton a five-year veteran also a marine corps veteran of the iraq war. he was fatally shot during that traffic stop on saturday night. he apparently interrupted a drug transaction involving a small amount of marijuana. they have identified his killer as this man, 29-year-old tremaine wilbourn. he was recently relessed from prits prison after serving time for a bank robbery. he is out on supervised release by the u.s. western district court for a 121 month sentence for robbery of a banking institution. he is considered to be armed and dangerous. nick valencia is live with us this morning. and, nick this is just such a hard time for this police department in particular. three officers killed over the last four years, right? reporter: yeah. good morning, poppy. certainly a terrible time. the mayor took a moment on saturday night during a press conversation to address a rise in gun violence there in the city. three officers gunned down in the line of duty in the last four years. 29-year-old tremaine wilbourn is the suspect in the murder of officer sean bolton. a 33-year-old, bolton was said to have noticed a car parked illegal just after 9:00 p.m. he approached the car and that s when the suspect got out of the car, a struggle ensighed and he allegedly shot the officer you re looking at there on your screen multiple times. a witness in the area, a resident in the area heard the gun shots, ran towards the scene and used the officer s radio to phone back in to 911 but it was too late. officer bolton was pronounced dead when he arrived at the hospital. a $10,000 reward being offered for information leading to this suspect. i m wondering if they have any leads at this time? reporter: a person of interest was brought in custody sometime yesterday afternoon. he was said to be the driver of that car. we don t know the relationship between wilbourn and the driver but shortly after the driver was released from questioning, that they named 29-year-old tremaine wilbourn as the suspect. no charges have been 2350i8d against filed against the driver. police need your help finding this man. if you have any information, please call your local authorities. poppy? very sad story. nick valencia. thank you. to california we go. it is almost well look at the pictures. it looks like a volcanic e runs, eruption eruption doesn t it? there are nearly two dozen wildfires burning across california right now racing across drought-parched landscape from one end to the other. the most ferocious, the rocky fire. it goes more ominous by the hour. thousands of people have fled their homes and fire officials are already issuing dire warnings for the day ahead. let s go straight to stephanie elam in california north of sacramento really in the thick of it. what are you seeing stephanie? reporter:. i m going like this because i can t hear stephanie. for our viewers we will try to reconnect with stephanie who is there in one of the hardest hit parts of california from these wildfires. once we get stephanie, we will bring you that live report. still to come in the newsroom, also president obama preparing to announce his plan to fight climate change and already republicans fighting him tooth and nail on it. that s next. no student s ever photographed mean ms. colegrove. but your dell 2-in-1 laptop gives you the spunk for an unsanctioned selfie. that s that new gear feeling. get this high performance laptop bundle for only $399. office depot officemax. gear up for school. gear up for great. if you want a paint that s more than just easy to scrub. if you want a paint that actually repels dirt and grime. if you want a paint that stand s up to life s wear and tear. only this can. regal select from benjamin moore. paint like no other. bring you that live report. this allergy season, will you be a sound sleeper, or a mouth breather. a mouth breather! well, put on a breathe right strip and shut your mouth. allergy medicines open your nose over time, but add a breathe right strip and pow! it instantly opens your nose up to 38% more. so you can breathe and sleep. add breathe right to your allergy medicine. shut your mouth and sleep right. breathe right and look for the calming scent of breathe right lavender in the sleep aisle. so what i m saying is, people like options. when you take geico, you can call them anytime you feel like saving money. it don t matter, day or night. use your computer, your smartphone, your tablet, whatever. the point is you have options. oh, how convenient. hey. crab cakes, what are you looking at? geico. fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more on car insurance. hp instant ink can save you up to 50% on ink, so print all you want and never run out. right now, buy an eligible printer, and get three months of free ink with hp instant ink. available at participating retailers. the most affordable way to print. hp instant ink. did you know that the tripadvisor you have always trusted for reviews book.! now checks over 200 websites to find the best price? book.! book.! book.! so don t just visit tripadvisor, book.! at tripadvisor we now have stephanie elam with us from california north of sacramento where she s monitoring more than two dozen major wildfires there. stephanie, what are you seeing? reporter: right, and i can update you right now, poppy, about the rocky fire where we are. i can now tell you that they know it s been 60,000 acres that have been burned. the containment though going up to 12% and that s good news. part of how they re doing it is back burning. what you see behind me is where they were doing some back burning yesterday. we were watching them light fires to burn down this dry underbrush and the reason why they re doing that that s literally fighting fire with fire. they re burning this area so that it s no longer fuel for any wildfire coming through here. it s already burned and they can contain it along these roadways. the other thing they re doing, they re using bulldozers. they have got firefighters out there on the line working to break through the brush so that there s a line that will stop this fire from spreading. that s what they re working on doing so that there will be no more buildings burnt but already we know there have been some 50 structures that have been damaged, destroyed i should say, half of those being homes. they re working to try to keep other buildings safe and all those evacuees to allow them to get back in there. right now 60,000 acres, that s a lot of acreage we re talking about that has been burned in this rocky fire and so much of it ballooning over the weekend, just really taking off. the last thing that drought-riddled california needs right now. stephanie elam thank you for that. to politics now. republican presidential hopefuls are blasting president obama s ambitious new plan to combat climate change. some already threatening to take it to court, and the president hasn t even officially unveiled it yet. that happens later this afternoon. let s go to the white house. michelle kosinski is live there for us. michelle the white house put out this extensive plan and they said it s going to save lives, it s going to save americans an average of $85 a month on their energy bill. republicans like marco rubio say no way, no how. it s going to cost americans more. jeb bush calling it irresponsible and overreaching. how big of a fight is this going to be? reporter: this is a huge debate that s really just the beginning. this is going to be interesting to watch. it maybe doesn t have the emotional and religious aspects of the debate over the planned parenthood thing obviously, but this really does strike to the core of what people believe on this. first of all, do you believe in climate change? do you believe it s happening? do you believe that man is causing that and then it has multiple layers in that many say, well why should the u.s. pinch industry here when other developing countries are just belching out more and more pollution? so with all of these elements thrown in there, it ends up being pretty complicated but pretty interesting. so the white house is really putting out this big push starting now. and you re right, they kind of unveiled everything in the lead up to the president s announcement this afternoon saying that this is going to cut carbon emissions from power plants in particular 32% over 2005 levels by the year 2030. and they have this medical aspect too, that it s going to prevent premature death by a factor of 90% over 2005. it s going to prevent childhood asthma attacks by 90,000 cases. that it s going to grow jobs that it s going to cut energy bills. but the critics are saying exactly the opposite on some of those points. here is jeb bush as one example. i think it s a disaster. it s taking it s typical of the obama administration taking executive power he doesn t have. for the first time they ve extended this to require states in a very coercive way and a very confusing, convoluted way to deal with this issue, and i believe it s unconstitutional. reporter: so it s not as if the white house wasn t prepared for some of these groups and some of these people in particular slamming the plan so they are ready with an answer to it all and we ll hear from the president directly in just a couple hours now, poppy. we will. it will certainly be a big, big fight. michelle kosinski live at the white house, thank you. the president s plan as you just heard from michelle to push on climate change is just one of the big headlines he s grabbed and some might say is a very controversial fight, issues he s tackling in what is the fourth quarter of his presidency. it is all part of what he calls his bucket list. remember remember this moment from the white house correspondents dinner? after the midterm elections my advisers asked me mr. president, do you have a bucket list? and i said well i have something that rhymes with bucket list. take executive action on immigration, bucket. new climate regulations? bucket. it s the right thing to do. you remember that john avlon? cnn political analyst and editor in chief of the daily beast. seriously, that s the first thing i thought of yesterday when i saw this climate proposal announced was here we go. bucket yeah. poppy, i mean this has been an extraordinary fourth quarter of a presidency. traditionally fourth quarters of presidencies are considered lame duck times. that s been the stereotype that a lot of predecessors have been laden with but this president has decided to throw that idea off and seems liberated to pursue a lot of progressive agenda items he had been restrained from doing when he or his party were facing re-election. and these range from cuba to this ambitious action on climate change. the question will be as you see the heat he s taking the fight he s going to face not only the political fights but the legal challenges from a number of key states. so this really is a deep divide between the two parties. it s deeper than it was a decade ago. we should underscore that. but this is going to be a major fight played out in the courts as well as the political arena. all right. also though when you talk about his legacy you have got the executive action on immigration, you ve got iran you ve got cuba you also have the issue of race in this country, right? and you have to talk about that. donald trump yesterday in his interview with abc talking about the president and race saying, i think he set a very poor standard a very low bar and i think it s a shame for the african-american people. talk to me about this president and race and his legacy. well you know, it s really quite something to have president obama be lectured on racial relations by donald trump, but let s put that evident absurdity aside for a second. look this president obviously not only the first african-american president but has been leading a much more complicated nuanced national conversation of race about race in the wake of ferguson in the wake of baltimore, the eric garner case and so many others. and so i think the president has been taking sort of an ap race conversation to the american people in the way a lot of republican candidates are deeply uncomfortable with because it s simply more complicated and nuanced than the broad bromides they re more comfortable with and donald trump talking about race is absurd on its face. big picture, a president obama rewriting the rules for a so-called lame duck? and i just wonder what you think about this strategy for future presidents. yeah. you know i love that point because it s so important. you know so many of the ideas we inherit may be rooted in history but especially when presidents or people in executive positions can throw them off simply by acting and thinking differently. it s significant that this president s poll numbers haven t descended to the quarter of the electorate approval that george w. bush had in the fourth quarter of his presidency but he really has acted liberated. he s purr tusueing long term agenda items he thinks are the right thing to do. it s clear he s alienated the centrist moderate part of the party. obviously the democrats are going to have to, you know be held to account for some of them come 2016 but there s little sign that they are deeply divisive in the way some folks who are afraid of their shadow might have feared. john avlon with his bucket list for us. thank you, john. still to come a trump campaign adviser out of a job after racially charged facebook posts surfaced but could this latest controversy actually give trump a boost going into the debate on thursday? 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right. not everyone can be a foster parent but anyone can help a foster child. federal agents are joining the baltimore police homicide unit trying to help them fight the unprecedented level of violence in that city right now. according to the baltimore sun, there have been at least two murders already this month, 45 murders in july the most in any month since 1972. in total this year of 191. cnn s boris sanchez is following the latest from baltimore with me here. it s incredibly disturbing especially considering what that city has gone through in the last six months. why the decision to bring in federal agents from so many different agencies? partly because the number is so eye popping. already in three days of august there have been 11 people shot in baltimore, two of them fatally, and in response officials are looking to launch b fed b-f-e-d. a new collaborative effort between five federal agencies the baltimore police department the fbi, thea tf the dea, the u.s. marshals offering two agents each to help with the bulk of homicide cases in baltimore. the atf, for example, offering to trace shell casings and identify suspects. the fbi meantime helping out with intelligence gathering. officials say they really hope this works. we expect to enjoy successes with bfed. we know our federal law enforcement partners bring tools to bear that we necessarily don t enjoy, federal assets and other federal investigative techniques we think will help us close more homicide cases. now, to be fair this is a nationwide problem. many other cities are also seeing an uptick in the number of homicides. washington, d.c. chicago, dallas just to name a few. how rare is it to see so many different agencies sort of combining here and going into a city in a situation like this. not a terrorism case buts is like this. it s not rare for them to help out and lend resources in specific cases like the prison break we saw, but for such a broad effort a multitude of cases, is rare. loug how long how long do they say and how do they determine success? boris sanchez, thank you. with just days to go for the first republican debate and after weeks of taking aim at his rivals in the race for the white house is donald trump scaling back expectations a little bit? you know he said i m not a good debater. i m not about debating, i m about jobs. after tweeting he plans to be respectful this thursday night in the debate he said this in an interview on sunday with abc. well, i m not a debater. these politicians, i always say they re all talk no action. they debate all the time. they go out and debate every night. i don t debate. i have created tremendous jobs i built a great company. i do a lot of things and maybe my whole life is a debate in a way, but the fact is i m not a debater and they are, but with that being said i look forward to it. we ll see what happens. who knows. i can tell you one thing, a lot of folks will be watching this debate. trump making those remarks. there s a new national poll showing him firmly ahead in the republican race 19% of republican primary voters backing him. that is compared to 15% who support scott walker 14% who support jeb bush. ben carson and ted cruz round out the top five. let s talk about it. cnn politics reporter erer m.j. lee and nia-malika henderson. the stakes are high for donald trump. if he tones it down will his supporters be upset or will it give us another surprise from trump to talk about? it almost sounds like he s trying to downplay how much he s preparing for this debate downplay sort of the expectations that he s setting for himself which is an understandable strategy. he has never done this before. this is his first time on the debate stage. so this makes sense. i think from everything we ve seen from the last couple of weeks from donald trump we know that his strength and his forte is going to be these one-line zingers and punches he throws at some of his rivals. i think for him to say he may not be on the offensive, i think that is likely exactly how he s going to be. i think when you re thinking about some ever his weaknesses and potential sort of weak spots on the debate stage we have seen this over and over again the last couple of weeks when he has particularly sat down and extended sit down interviews, he doesn t have sort of a deep policy sort of proposals and details when it comes to issues that he loves to talk about, issues like immigration, issues like health care. he likes to talk a good game and talk about how the obama administration has really failed on these issues but then when he s pressed a little bit more and asked to share specific details, he isn t really ready to go there yet. so i think some of his gop rivals are going to understand that and will probably try to highlight that on the debate stage to show the audience, you know this is not someone who, you know may not particularly be ready to really be a serious candidate yet. nia-malika to you. this abc interview with donald trump yesterday getting a lot of attention, particularly for this part where he addressed the controversial tweet he made about president obama in november and the future for other black presidents. let s roll it. so let me ask you about something you tweeted last year. you said of barack obama, sadly, because president obama has done such a poor job as president, you won t see another black president for generations. what did you mean by that? i think that he has set a very low bar, and i think it s a shame for the african-american people and by the way, he has done nothing for african-americans. you look at what s gone on with their income levels, you look at what s gone on with their youth. i thought he would be a great cheerleader for this country. i thought he d do a fabulous job for the african-american citizens of this country. he has done nothing. nia-malika what does that do to him as a candidate? well, you know, it tells us who trump is as a candidate and, remember he is king of the birthers in many ways if you flash back to 2011. this is the kind of rhetoric about the president, questioning whether or not he should have really gotten into those ivy league schools, questioning whether or not he was, in fact born in america. so he s always had this kind of approach in talking about the president. his talking about the president in terms of how he s done for african-americans, it s very much in line with what you heard from other republicans when they were reaching out to african-american voters in 2012, they were making the same kind of appeals and criticisms of obama, those same kind of appeals to african-american voters saying are you better off now under this president than you were four years ago. but i think he is sounding a different note than the republican party more generally. they very much want to expand their appeal to african-americans. you heard reince priebus last week down at the urban league talking about african-american voters jeb bush was there as well. he hasn t been a candidate so far who has made that kind of outreach. part of his portfolio even though he does say that he was win the african-american vote, win the latino vote that seems to be very unlikely given all of his racialized rhetoric. he asserted that again at the end of the abc interview saying i will win the african-american vote i will win the hispanic vote. very quickly to you, m.j. his campaign fired sam nunnberg for racially charged facebook posts he say he did not post. what does that do on the issue of race and donald trump as a candidate? as you clarified, these are facebook post that the aide said he did not write. i think that didn t really matter to the trump campaign that gets it only has a couple days before trump takes the debate stage which is going to be a very important moment for him and for him proving himself to a wider audience. i think that the trump campaign understands that its gop rivals have a long list of attacks that they can use against trump, whether it s comments on immigration or john mccain, so i think this was not one more thing they wanted on that list. nia-malika henderson, m.j. lee, thank you very much. still to come sometime this week investigators will begin trying to determine if that piece of plane debris found on an island is indeed part of mh-370. the victims families want and deserve answers as soon as possible. a new season brings a new look. a chance to try something different. this summer, challenge your preconceptions and experience a cadillac for yourself. the 2015 cadillac srx. lease this from around $339 per month, or purchase with 0% apr financing. how s it progressing with the prisoner? he ll tell us everything he knows very shortly, sir. as you were. where were we? 13 serving 14! service! if your boss stops by, you act like you re working. it s what you do. if you want to save fifteen percent or more on car insurance, you switch to geico. it s what you do. when broker chris hill stays at laquinta he fires up the free wifi with a network that s now up to 5 times faster than before! so he can rapidly prepare his presentation. and when he perfects his pitch, do you know what chris can do? and that is my recommendation. let s see if he s ready. he can swim with the sharks! he s ready. la quinta inns & suites take care of you, so you can take care of business. book your next stay at lq.com! la quinta! shopping online is as easy as it gets. wouldn t it be great if hiring plumbers carpenters and piano tuners were just as simple? thanks to angie s list now it is. we re making hiring anyone from a handyman to a dog walker as simple as a few clicks. you don t have to be a member to buy their services directly at angieslist.com but members save more on special offers. angie s list is revolutionizing local service again. visit angieslist.com today. the wreckage found earlier is confirmed to be the flaperon from a boeing 777. that was a malaysian transport minister earlier this morning confirming the debris found on a remote island in the indian ocean is in fact from a boeing 777, the same type of plane that went missing 17 months ago. flight 370. french officials will try to determine if that wreckage came from that doomed flight. all of this doing very little to ease the pain felt by those grieving families. will ripley has the latest from beijing. reporter: anger is growing for the families of malaysian airlines flight mh-370 demanding this meeting with chinese transport officials. you just say whatever you want she says. more than 500 days on they re tired of crying tired of waiting, waiting that s not over even if debris suspected to be from the missing plane offers new clues. just that still cannot help you to find the plane and it still cannot help you find the truth about what happened and why. reporter: steve wang hasn t spoken his mother s name since the day she and 238 others disappeared. wang keeps her photo private along with her last message asking him to bring her coat to the airport. do you still listen to the voice mail she left you? sometimes sometimes. reporter: when did you listen to it last? on wednesday. reporter: on wednesday when you heard about the debris. yeah. reporter: new evidence washing ashore on reunion island forces families to face a new wave of agony. i feel so sorry for my two grandsons. what have they done wrong asks this woman? china s one child policy allowed jong and her husband just one daughter who was flying home with their only son-in-law. not a minute has passed without me thinking of them she says. jong says she once tried getting information at the malaysian airlines office. police detained her for eight hours. more than 150 chinese were on mh-370. china s communist party discourages families from gathering and protesting as they did after the plane vanished. the assistance center in beijing closed. what do you need? the truth. reporter: wang says the discovery of suspect the mh-370 debris doesn t bring closure. only closure will come at the time they find the plane, find everybody, and find the truth. reporter: his biggest fear the search will slow. the spotlight will fade and the families of 239 people will be left as they are today, still waiting. will ripley, cnn, beijing. heart breaks for those families. let s talk more about this with cnn safety analyst david soucie and cnn contributor david gallow director of special projects for the woods hole ocean institute. can experts term what might have happened to the plane from the information they can get from a piece of wreckage? well, not really give information as to what happened. what it might do is improve their ability to search for the aircraft because of the fact that it may narrow the search area if indeed this part came off of the aircraft as a result of a rapid descent. so there s something that can be gained from this certainly. but certainly not. a lot of the information they need is what happened especially in that cockpit and they need the voice recorders for that. david gallow to you, when you talk about the search area for mh-370 if indeed this piece is confirmed to be from mh-370, what does this tell us about the search area? does it help? does it move the search area because as you see on your screen this piece, 2300 miles from the main search area. hi poppy. well it floated there almost assuredly it floated there from wherever the plane impacted the water. if it is fromm h mh-370. as david said it may help narrow the search area it may shift it a tiny bit but it s not going to change the overall plan of where they re working now 2300 or 2500 miles away across the other side of the indian ocean. when you look david gallo, at this would you expect a lot of the wreckage to be together in one place or would you expect that much of it has floated as perhaps this piece did 2,300 miles? well it almost follows exactly air france. within a week after the air france disaster air france 447, there were thousands of small bits and big bits of plane on the surface of the ocean, but it wasn t for two more years that we actually found the main body of the wreckage which had sunk to the bottom and i would imagine that that s the case here too. to find the black boxes, the engines, the landing gear these are all heavy things that would sink to the bottom and that s the goal is to find that bit of wreckage that sank down to the bottom of the ocean. david soucie a lot of us are puzzled as to why the people analyzing this part in france at that laboratory are waiting until wednesday to start doing that. it arrived over the weekend and these family members are desperate for answers. why wait? i don t think they re waiting, poppy. it s mostly about the fact that this is a forensic investigation and it is for criminal investigation at this point as well. it may very well be a criminal investigation, so therefore, everyone who even touches it, the chain of custody has to be recorded. each person going into that laboratory, i went to that laboratory myself on occasion and when you go in there it takes a day and a half just to get cleared to be the person that goes in there, the background checks everything. you were there, you have a unique perspective, can you tell us a little bit about the laboratory? as i mentioned, it is a forensic laboratory. these are the best in the world. the people that are there don t mess around. we re not talking about some kind of just observational opinions like what we re able to give from afar. but this is a very in-depth forensic investigation. they ll be able to tell us extra stress each piece of the metal has been under and they will look at it and tell us how it was torn from the aircraft. thank you for the expertise. we ll bring you more answers to these major questions as soon as we have them. just ahead here in the newsroom, future funding of planned parenthood could be on the line today in the senate. a live report from washington next. this allergy season, will you be a sound sleeper, or a mouth breather. a mouth breather! well, put on a breathe right strip and shut your mouth. allergy medicines open your nose over time, but add a breathe right strip and pow! it instantly opens your nose up to 38% more. newsroom, future funding of so you can breathe and sleep. add breathe right to your allergy medicine. shut your mouth and sleep right. breathe right and look for the calming scent of breathe right lavender in the sleep aisle. no student s ever photographed mean ms. colegrove. but your dell 2-in-1 laptop gives you the spunk for an unsanctioned selfie. that s that new gear feeling. get this high performance laptop bundle for only $399. office depot officemax. gear up for school. gear up for great. a disability that keeps you from working can mean broken dreams fractured hopes shattered lives. turn to disability justice the social security disability experts they can help you get the benefits you earned and put your life back together again. disability justice. call eight hundred, four two five,ninety-one hundred my name is chris hughes and i am a certified arborist for pg&e. i oversee the patrolling of trees near power lines and roots near pipes and underground infrastructure. at pg&e wherever we work we work hard to protect the environment. getting the job done safely so we can keep the lights on for everybody. because i live here i have a deeper connection to the community. and i want to see the community grow and thrive. every year we work with cities and schools to plant trees in our communities. the environment is there for my kids and future generations. together, we re building a better california. just hours from now the u.s. senate is expected to vote on a bill to potentially remove federal funding from planned parenthood. senator rand paul, who is seeking the republican nomination for president, says he introduced the defunding bill following what was captured in undercover video of planned parenthood officials discussing the price of fetal tissue for medical research. emotions are so high on this issue some republicans, including senator ted cruz, have vowed to shut down the federal government if necessary. joe johns joins me now. the white house addressed this josh earnest saying a writer that would defund planned harnt parenthood would draw a presidential veto. what s the overall plan here from the republicans that want to see planned parenthood totally defunded from federal money? reporter: i think there s a big difference between a plan, an objective and policy at this stage and there s a difference between messaging and policy. so what we re seeing right now is an uphill battle for this measure, not only because republican leadership needs 60 votes to get this thing over the finish line but also because of as you mentioned, the president s veto threat, but what is clear is they feel like they have to do something simply because of the videos that you mentioned which anecdotally talking to some republicans around the capitol, it seems it s really picked up steam at least on the right. so the question of messaging, the question of doing something because now republicans are in control of both the house and the senate and their constituency expects them to set the agenda. planned parenthood for its part is in the position of defending itself along with a lot of the pro-abortion forces and planned parenthood pointing out that it s mainly contraception that that organization does only 3% of their services are directed to abortion clients. at the bottom line this is the type of situation that you re going to hear a lot more about here on capitol hill simply because we re moving into an election year. there s also the question of whether those 18 republicans in the house along with people like ted cruz over in the senate side can push this thing very far once we get down to the issue of funding for the government at the end of september. expect to hear a lot more of it. there s not a lot of hope here that this thing is going to pass tonight, poppy. and will this ultimately lead to a fight over another potential government shutdown? we ll see. joe johns thank you. checking some other top stories for you, tonight 14 gop presidential candidates not including donald trump will take part in the first voters forum on c span. the forum is not a debate. it s a chance for the candidates to answer a series of brief questions from local radio hosts. that is at 7:00 eastern tonight. more than 100 people have died thousands more have been displaced because of heavy monsoon rain and flooding in india. officials are now saying the situation is quote, grim as people are flocking trying to find shelter in relief camps. rescue and disaster forces have been deployed. they re working to help those people in very hard hit areas. still to come in the newsroom, more than one in every ten people in puerto rico is unemployed. that coupled with a huge $70 billion in outstanding debt leads to another crisis for puerto rico. you re going to want to hear this because it matters for american investors. before i had the shooting, burning, pins-and-needles of diabetic nerve pain, these feet. .served my country. .carried the weight of a family. .and walked a daughter down the aisle. but i couldn t bear my diabetic nerve pain any longer. so i talked to my doctor and he prescribed lyrica. nerve damage from diabetes causes diabetic nerve pain. lyrica is fda-approved to treat this pain. lyrica may cause serious allergic reactions or suicidal thoughts or actions. tell your doctor right away if you have these, new, or worsening depression or unusual changes in mood or behavior. or swelling, trouble breathing rash, hives, blisters, muscle pain with fever, tired feeling, or blurry vision. common side effects are dizziness, sleepiness, weight gain and swelling of hands, legs and feet. don t drink alcohol while taking lyrica. don t drive or use machinery until you know how lyrica affects you. those who have had a drug or alcohol problem may be more likely to misuse lyrica. now i have less diabetic nerve pain. and my biggest reason to walk. .calls me grandpa. ask your doctor about lyrica. every auto insurance policy has a number. but not every insurance company understands the life behind it. those who have served our nation. have earned the very best service in return. usaa. we know what it means to serve. get an auto insurance quote and see why 92% of our members plan to stay for life. puerto rico is very likely to go into default by the end of today after the island missed a $58 million debt payment over the weekend. the governor there warning the economy is dangerously close to entering a, quote, death spiral. let s talk about it with cnn chief business correspondent christine romans. bottom line they ve had a lot of problems for a long time, high unemployment. what does it mean for american investors. it s a difficult situation. a lot of american investors who may have had exposure to this once its debt was downgraded to junk status a lot of bond funds couldn t hold it but this was something that had really good tax treatment so a lot of people had exposure to puerto rico. this has been called america s greece because it s right here. this is a big problem. a lot of debt some $70 billion in debt that s going to have to be restructured and really the people of puerto rico have been bearing the brunt of this so far. you talk about the unemployment rate it s like 12% there, double what it is here. and that s the official number. very very difficult. they ve had a brain drain. they have people leaving for a long long time so they have a tax base that s shrinking as its debt is going up, poverty is rising and the age of its population is rising. that makes it that much more difficult in terms of the math of running a country. what about the entity here. when you talk about this some are pointing to a potential strategic default on this payment because it s not like they re defaulting to a hedge fund that could sue them. this is sort of like a big pension fund that a lot of individual folks paid into. right. so these are individual people in the country, in puerto rico. look in puerto rico people through their credit unions have exposure to this and they re less likely make to sue than maybe a big, rich hedge fund. when you look at our story on cnn money, we wrap through all the different angles. it s the people of puerto rico not necessarily wall street banks, that will suffer most by a default here. so this is a very difficult situation, and it s a reminder i think when you look at public debt and public finances, we ve looked at some other states that have had big issues, but the sats have different treatments than puerto rico. puerto rico technically can t go to the imf like a country could like greece. but it s also not officially a state. and state like detroit filed bankruptcy. so it s really in a unique position here. the governor there has said that the economy is in a death spiral. he said we don t have the money. now you will see them starting to strategically pay certain bills and not other bills as they try to figure out how to work this out. it s a great way to put it. a sad reality though but our greece basically. right. that s right. christine romans thank you very much. go to cnnmoney.com. you can learn all about why this matters for you right there. puerto rico s crisis in two minutes. thank you so much for being with me today. i m poppy harlow. carol costello is back tomorrow. at this hour with berman and bolduan starts now. a new close call in the skies. for the third time in days a drone gets dangerously close to a passenger jet and just now the government sends a bulletin warning these drones could be used as terrorist weapons. the search for a coward. that s what the police director says. a manhunt is under way for the person who shot and killed an officer during a traffic stop. and you think the republican debates will be interesting? try hillary clinton versus joe biden. why the vice president is considering a run and how he would shake up the entire race.
when i looked at the e-mail i couldn t even believe it. but after so many tears, so many years and so many turns in her story i was like, whoa there are still more stunning twists to be revealed. it s amazing. the best gift ever. lost and found. hello. i m craig melvin. welcome to dateline extra. a young girl was abducted at the age of 4 and raised by her kidnapper. for the next four decades she searched for her family, her name and herself. her story has an extraordinary ending. as it turns out that ending was just the beginning. here is keith morrison. our story begins with this mother of a teenage daughter. a woman who had spent most of her life trying to figure out who she was. what was her name? where did she come from? we ll tell you about her long search, her discovery finally of what felt like truth. as you ll soon see, real truth can be elusive. it can hide. let s begin at the beginning. but at the beginning, all she had was a memory. a twin canopy bed with pink ruffles around it, kind of waved over the top of it. it was dream-like, really. for years, it was all that felt real in her upside down life. it was all pink and white. everything matched. the closet full of dresses, the dolls, the teddy bears. there was an old-fashioned where you put the baby in the wagon. the reason for those memories? it s a lot of hurt and sadness. sadness for the little girl that didn t have a life. for most of her life, the part after that little girl s bedroom, she has been pepper, and the vastly terrified story of what happened to her, kidnapped, held captive for years is the reason she gripped that life preserver of a memory. shocking where that memory will lead by the end of this hour. she was, she is certain of this, an only child and spoiled most likely, showered with attention with toys and dresses by the parents whose faces she cannot quite pull into focus. they re in their little apartment. was it san diego, perhaps? it looks like a very happy childhood. like love was there. she knows there were two parents, blonde beehive on her mother though her name lost now. there was a nickname, bobbi. in the early days she was always there. her father was always absent punksated by glorious reunions where she d been bundled up bike a china doll. we would go see him coming in from the navy. it was an exciting moment and she would get us all dressed up in anticipation of going to the shipyard and having a lot of attention, i think, as a child. the memories are how she survived it all. holding my mom s hand, having fun with my mom, being in the moment of joy. i don t have bad memories. yes, those, the bad memories, like the day everything good went away. it was 1973 though she and her happy childhood bubble had no idea what year it was. she knows she was not yet 5. it was autumn and someone came to the door with a plan. i remember a woman coming over and knocking on the door. her name was shirley. she was a friend of her mother s, she said. she said the little girl she brought with her was rene. rene was 6. a little older then. doesn t matter. they dashed off to her bedroom to play. this is rene now and that room was stuck in her memory, too. her room was gorgeous, a nice-sized room for a little kid, a canopy bed, tons of dresses and toys galore. you had none of that? i was like, wow, this is nice. an alien room for the little girl and while she was in the bedroom, shirley was in the living room talking. when she called her she didn t want to go. i said, can we stay longer? she said, no, but your new friend was coming. i said, okay. the same and that s how everything started. it id. it was to be an overnight, the girls were told, they would stay with shirley in her los angeles hotel room and return the next day. we got in the car and i never looked back, it completely changed from that point on. she took you away and never took you home again? no. never back again. do you remember that feeling? yes. she had been kidnapped. must have been. there was no little girls overnight in shirley s motel room. they stopped there only to pack belongings and hit the road and a blissful child hood entered the fog of history, the memory of the beautiful bedroom, all she had to confront the nightmare just beginning. coming up, a 4-year-old on the road with her kidnapper. i knew that everything that was happening to us was completely wrong at a very very young age. when lost and found continues. now i m turning into . i text in full sentences. i refer to every child as chief. this hat was free. what am i supposed to do, not wear it? next thing you know, i m telling strangers defense wins championships. -well, it does. -right? why is the door open? are we trying to air condition the whole neighborhood? at least i bundled home and auto on an internet website, progressive.com. progressive can t save you from becoming your parents, but we can save you money when you bundle home and auto. i mean, why would i replace this? it s not broken. 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[ whirring sound ] you want a cookie? it s a drone! i know. find your phone easily with the xfinity voice remote. one more way comcast is working to fit into your life, not the other way around. welcome back to dateline extra. a 4-year-old girl is kidnapped from her home, taken from the only life she knew by a woman who told her she d be going on a sleepover with a playmate for just one night. that one night turned into a terrifying odyssey that wouldn t end for many, many nights to come. here again is keith morrison. the story you ll hear now lives in the vivid so real you could touch them memories of two frightened girls. it began in a down market motel whose l.a. neighborhood was most decidedly not child friendly. it was to be a one night sleepover with new friend renee. instead the adult who brought her here, a woman named shirley, simply didn t take her home again. instead, she packed some belongings, put the girls in the car and hit the road. where did they go? the little girl had no idea. but she did know that from now on, she had a new name. they called her pepper. you pepper smith. she was not yet 5 years old. we lived in cars and motels and going from state to state staying at salvation armies to get a meal here and there. just what s it like to live in a car? it s horrible. it s embarrassing. she was confused, of course, and terribly frightened at first. she begged, take me home. shirley ignored her. she imagined running away. i had nowhere to go. i was too scared. then as the weeks and months and then years went by, as her powers of reasoning grew, the question grew, too. did her mother, bobbi, actually give her away? shirley told pepper that renee was her sister. the two girls listened wide-eyed as shirley explained to strangers that she was their grandmother. that their parents had been killed in a car accident. i knew that everything that was happening to us was completely wrong at a very, very young age. why had she been taken? she didn t know. not for money, certainly. there were no ransom demands. and without pepper s birth certificate, shirley couldn t use her to score public assistance. though she did use renee that way. frightened, compliant renee, eager for a mother s love, even if that mother figure was shirley. i never wanted to do anything wrong. i felt like if i did something wrong or whatever, she wouldn t love me. she would give me away. wouldn t love me? shirley told her, says renee, she was born to a prostitute drug addict named geri. that shirley saved baby renee, raised her as a daughter. but kept renee in line by threatening to abandon her. did she ever threaten to do that? yeah, many times. we d do something wrong, and she would say, well, you stop doing that or i m going to send you off to geri s house. and so they lived a life of packing up and fleeing state to state one flop house to the next searching for the cheapest place to stay and then skip out of. hunger constant. medical care, nonexistent. when money ran out, as it often did, shirley drove to the nearest truck stop. the girls would bed down in the car and watch shirley sneak off to do well, they didn t know. and alone and frightened, they held on to each other and watched the shadows of strange men pass by their car until the night when, terrified and unable to sleep, renee followed shirley. she s taking a long time and i m getting scared because i m thinking she left or she s died or something. so i go into where they work on the cars, and she s like on the side over here, and he s on top of her. and i didn t know what was i got scared and then she see me and she yelled at me and said get out of here. go. at least then they had a bit of money but always pepper was afraid. afraid to ask for help. afraid to ask why she d been taken. afraid of shirley s threats. she would scare us to believe that we were in a better place because she was doing something good for us. did you ever understand why she wouldn t take you back home? her personality was very up and down. like very angry and so if we if i asked questions, she would say stuff like, if you want to find your mom, she s on the streets shooting heroin and a prostitute. tirades were frequent, neglect part of life. physical and verbal abuse a regular occurrence. she would whip us with the belt, slap us, verbally cuss at us. verbally abuse us. and threaten to send you away? right. i just felt if you take it it s hard to explain. but if you just take it, it she gets out of the rage faster, so to speak. they went to school when they could. made very few friends and lost the ones they did make. struggled to be ordinary kids and then normal teenagers. all i wanted to be is loved. that s it. and i never got any kind of love that i wanted. instead, they were trapped. truck stop nomads in the care of a woman who it seemed clear had kidnapped at least one if not both of them. and they drifted one dump to another across any number of state lines for years. and then some time in the early 80s they settled down, here. shirley pulled up to this motel in los angeles county and took a job at the motel s cleaning woman in exchange for a free room. and if it wasn t much, at least it gave them some measure of stability. and they signed up at a local school, junior high for pepper, high school for renee. much to shirley s disapproval. shirley would tell us, girls don t go to school. they get married. why do you want to go to school? i didn t like being late to school. i didn t like being absent all the time. so they got themselves up every morning and went to school and kept going. and then, pepper was 12. eight of those years with shirley when she saw her chance to escape and seized it. she made herself useful as a babysitter for the couple next door in room 109. and when the family moved out of the motel, pepper went with them. but it didn t last long. pepper s new household caught in its own spiral of alcoholism and dysfunction was as troubled and messy as her own life was. she swallowed her pride and moved back to room 110 colonial motel, even though, by then, shirley didn t seem to care much what she did. i remember when i was trying to so-call run away, plot my escape, before it went into action, i was in my mind going, she i m going to show her. she ll care. like i remember thinking that. but she didn t care. she didn t come to get me. still, having tasted freedom once, pepper was determined to get away from her kidnapper for good. the second time she took a chance, moved out with the family and a second time had to return. and then finally by the time she turned 16, pepper left for good. but that meant she left renee behind, too. renee who so needed pepper and was alone now with shirley. she was my best friend growing up. that was my best friend. we did everything together. we fight like sisters. we did everything together. renee was feeling abandoned. i was telling her, don t go. stay here. i need you. you re my sister. so she went. she did her thing. and i was upset and sad. by 1986 and on her own now, pepper had all but given up hope that she d ever find her real parents. now she began to encounter a more immediate problem. the inevitable trouble that comes with having no real name, no birth certificate, no i.d. though she was enrolled in school under the name rhonda smith at shirley s urging, she had no way to prove this was her legal name, and without some cooperation from shirley, her search for such documents seemed hopeless. and then how did you find out that she was sick? she turned completely yellow when they diagnosed her with pancreatic cancer and she literally died quickly after that. with shirley on her death bed, pepper tried to act like the dutiful daughter, tried to make her comfortable. but there was another terribly important reason to see her then. maybe the most important. one last opportunity to find out who she was. as she was dying, did you try to find, do you know, maybe she d make a death bed confession and say, i did take you and here are what your parents names are and how to find them. any of that happen? did you ask? oh, yeah. and shirley had a response for the girl she renamed pepper. the question was, what could she do with that answer? coming up if jaycee duggard could be found after 18 years, certainly there must be hope for pepper. it triggered a lot of my own personal memories, you know, and how come i didn t get found. i felt so missing. but would she be missing much longer when lost and found continues. i just got my cashback match, is this for real? 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i was given warfarin in the hospital, but wondered, was this the best treatment for me? so i made a point to talk to my doctor. he told me about eliquis. eliquis treats dvt and pe blood clots and reduces the risk of them happening again. not only does eliquis treat dvt and pe blood clots. eliquis also had significantly less major bleeding than the standard treatment. eliquis had both. .and that turned around my thinking. don t stop eliquis unless your doctor tells you to. eliquis can cause serious and in rare cases fatal bleeding. don t take eliquis if you have an artificial heart valve or abnormal bleeding. if you had a spinal injection while on eliquis call your doctor right away if you have tingling, numbness, or muscle weakness. while taking eliquis, you may bruise more easily. and it may take longer than usual for bleeding to stop. seek immediate medical care for sudden signs of bleeding, like unusual bruising. eliquis may increase your bleeding risk if you take certain medicines. tell your doctor about all planned medical or dental procedures. eliquis treats dvt and pe blood clots. plus had less major bleeding. both made eliquis right for me. ask your doctor if switching to eliquis is right for you. returning to lost and found, here again is keith morrison. it was the summer of her 16th year. the girl they called pepper smith sat at the death bed of the woman who had stolen her with questions burning in her brain. she had to know, who was she? where does of did she come from? who were her parents? what was her true identity, and at the very least, where could she find the documents that could give her a real life. she took a roundabout route. she asked the question indirectly. i took driver s ed like any 16-year-old wants to get their i want to be free. i want to go work and be free from all of this. i have a plan. and i asked her for i need my birth certificate. i need this. she told me, they changed the laws. you can t get your driver s license until you re 18 years old. yeah. and i m supposed to believe this. as i sit in a classroom where i ve got friends who are getting permits. she took the lies with her. she was not going to tell. what about the birth certificate. never gave me a concrete answer, nothing. couldn t get anything out of her. the lies stayed with her. shirley knew the answers, of course. knew the whole bizarre story, but she looked pepper in the eye through her obvious pain and told her nothing. she left the lies behind and took the truth to her grave. on july 29th, 1986 at the age of 63. she was buried here, this cemetery, in an unmarked grave. renee, now 19, got on with life, moved in with her boyfriend. soon pepper showed up at their apartment, homeless and nowhere else to turn to. and everywhere pepper went from then on, shirley s poison gift followed because of that woman and what she did, pepper was officially, at least, a nonperson. so it took a little while for determination to come back. she was in her mid-20s, a single mother by then. if only she could find her birth certificate. that could lead her to her parents. anyway, she needed documents to live. she needed a passport. so she contacted state offices. their departments of vital records with perhaps predictable results. tell me what it feels like when you know you have to go to an official and ask for something that you really, really, really need and you kind of know, you think how it s going to go. i get emotional usually. usually i cry. it was really i would it just brings me to a sad place. you d be sitting across the desk from somebody crying. oh, absolutely. and they wouldn t do anything for you? no. they could say i can t do anything for you probably. you need this document. this is what you need to provide. i have no way to get this document because i don t know my parents name. i don t know my real name. pepper. and once again, pepper felt, perhaps understandably, like giving up. but by then she was living with her daughter in south lake tahoe working as a waitress and, what do you know. hometown girl, jaycee dugard kidnapped years and years earlier, was found. the community was just buzzing all over the place with joy. and i was happy for jaycee lee. but it triggered a lot of my own personal memories. you know, and how come i didn t get found. and i felt still missing. so once again, charged up with determination, she launched a fresh attempt. there s such a thing as adult adoption. find someone to adopt her and even if she couldn t find her parents, at least she could get an official identity and a birth certificate and thus a passport. a friend offered to adopt her so pepper and friend applied and waited. and something quite amazing happened. someone in that great california bureaucracy did some research. actually talked to pepper, asked her questions hauled out records not readily available online. all pepper could offer were the names bob and bobbie and the date of her birth. and somehow, buried among all those files in all their hundreds of millions, a match. and there it was, came in the mail, after all those years, a copy of her actual birth certificate. the key to unlock her past, though she had no idea then, looking at that birth certificate, that the appropriate question should have been this was this her real past? coming up a journey ending? this is it. whoa. or was it just beginning? when lost and found continues. experience lexus safety system plus standard in the 2018 lexus es and es hybrid. lease the 2018 es 350 for $399/month for 36 months. experience amazing at your lexus dealer. which is the only egg good eonly eggland s best. with more farm-fresh taste, more vitamins, and 25% less saturated fat? only eggland s best. better taste, better nutrition, better eggs. trusyou and lantus. you go together, so stay together. stay together with a $0 copay, you ve got zero reasons to leave, and every reason to stay. lantus is used to control high blood sugar in people with diabetes. do not use lantus to treat diabetic ketoacidosis, during episodes of low blood sugar, or if you re allergic to insulin. get medical help right away if you have a serious allergic reaction such as body rash or trouble breathing. don t reuse needles or share insulin pens. the most common side effect is low blood sugar which can be life-threatening. it may cause shaking, sweating, fast heartbeat, and blurred vision. check your blood sugar levels daily. injection site reactions may occur. don t change your dose of insulin without talking to your doctor. tell your doctor about all your medicines and medical conditions. check insulin label each time you inject. taking tzds with insulins like lantus may cause heart failure that can lead to death. stay together with the lantus $0 copay. let s stay together talk to your doctor or visit saveonlantus.com. fired fbi director, james comey, is speaking out publicly ahead of the release of his new book and said it s possible the russians could have compromising information on president trump and he is morally unfit to be president. according to a family spokesman after a series of hospitalizations, former first lady barbara bush will not seek additional hospitalization and instead focus on comfort care. back to dateline. welcome back to dateline extra. i m craig melvin. the woman known as pepper finally has a piece of paper in her hand. the paper she s waited for most of her life to find. her birth certificate. but where would that piece of paper lead? here again is keith morrison. for 37 years, she d been searching for her parents, her life, her name. now just as she d given up ever finding the answer, here it was. a copy of her birth certificate. with her real name in black and white. rhonda patricia christie. and there were the names of her parents, too. robert and barbara christie. this is it. i was like, whoa. they were my parents. bobbi and bob. they were my parents. with their names and social security numbers, rhonda and her friends tracked down a phone number in ohio. she dialed the number. a man answered. it was june 5th, 2010. i said are you robert dean christie, because it was on my birth certificate. he said, yes. i said are you married to a barbara blackwelder, or were you? he said yes. i said i think i m rhonda christie or do you know rhonda patricia christie and then there was a long pause. this is who she was talking to. his name is bob christie. i almost dropped the phone. she knew i d hesitated and she said this is your daughter rhonda. and it was something that clicked in my mind that i reck the voice rang a bell. and he called to my mom, barbara, to pick up the phone. rhonda is on the phone. she picked up the phone and the first thing out of her mouth was shirley stoled you. pepper was shaking inside and out. i went into the most emotions i ve ever had in my entire life, ever. the memories were true, or so it certainly seemed. she got on a plane for ohio. they were all, of course, 37 years older and in a way strangers now. but here they were. all the images she had clung to in fantasy, dreamed about for those 37 long years. and there you are in your bath. all those rolls, too. chubby little baby. and happy. and look at you just learning to walk. and smiling the whole way. you had a good life, honey. i know. so it was happy and sad, comforting, but also deeply strange because sitting on this couch, pepper heard some stunning revelations. such as these were not her birth parents. she had been adopted. and the arrangement was mysterious. and now, it was barbara s turn to tell a story. shirley had been her friend, she said. told her about a woman working in the sex trade named geri smith who didn t want her babies and one day shirley showed up at barbara s house with a 3-month-old baby she called rhonda patricia smith. barbara could see it was a little iffy but she wanted that baby so badly. and so she said she ignored the red flags. nope, didn t care. didn t really care. she was going to see to it, she said, that rhonda was loved and cared for by the best parents she could ever possibly have. bob and barbara legally adopted their little princess four years later in the fall of 1973. and it was shortly after that, said barbara, when shirley and renee showed up at her door. and the kids played together, and we visited together, and she asked if rhonda could come spend the night with renee. and took me awhile to get an answer to that. i really had to think about that hard. i m one of these tenderhearted people and i said, well, i want her to know her sister. sister? yes, barbara told rhonda she and renee were half-sisters, daughters of the same mother, the woman who worked the streets. barbara said by then, she didn t trust shirley with rhonda, but i want rhonda to know her sister. i wanted her to have family and stuff. and i asked bob, and he said no, she couldn t at first, and then he relented. let her go. and next morning, we went to get her, and they were gone. and they didn t come back. bob and barbara called the police right away, of course. but here s what they says they were told. that the police could do nothing for them since they d allowed rhonda to leave with shirley. they were on their own. and so, desperate, they said, they started their own search. discovered shirley had taken the girls to a relatives house several states away. when they got there, it was too late. all that remained sitting on the porch were the little red shoes rhonda wore the day she was kidnapped. it was hopeless. they returned to their childless home. nothing left but the photographs of the little girl who stopped growing up for them at 4. and now, out of the blue, that phone call and here she was. how are you? i m good. it is definitely a gift. not only did we get a daughter but a granddaughter. barbara had terminal cancer. she would die a year later. still, back then, they celebrated. renee joined them for rhonda s birthday and the christies 38th wedding anniversary. an amazing reunion. dateline was happy to broadcast it all around the country on march 25th, 2011, no idea that something quite unbelievable would happen because one of the people who tuned in that night was a woman named geri, and oh, what a story she had to tell. coming up it was a story two sisters had waited a very long time to hear. 99.99% probability. that means it s confirmed. when lost and found continues. the wonderful thing about polident is the fact that it s very, very tough on bacteria, yet it s very gentle on the denture itself. polident consists of 4 powerful ingredients that work together to deep clean your denture in hard to reach places. that work together but i m not standing still. and with godaddy, i ve made my ideas real. i made my own way, now it s time to make yours. everything is working, working, just like it should janice, mom told me you bought a house. okay. [ buttons clicking ] [ camera shutter clicks ] so, now that you have a house, you can use homequote explorer. quiet. i m blasting my quads. janice, look. i m in a meeting. -janice, look. -[ chuckles ] -look, look. -i m looking. it s easy. you just answer some simple questions online, and you get coverage options to choose from. you re ruining my workout. cycling is my passion. welcome back to dateline extra. i m craig melvin. returning to our story now. here again, keith morrison. when we first told you the story about pepper smith and her lifelong journey to find her family, her identity, it was a friday night in march 2011. and the following monday morning my office received a call, and then i received an e-mail. attorney gloria allred found herself looking at a remarkable message. allred had been helping the two sisters deal with their new identity issues, and there it was. the ping of a message on her blackberry. when i looked at the e-mail, i just couldn t even believe it. i looked at it about three times. am i really seeing this? it was a woman claiming to be the biological mother of both pepper and renee. claiming to be the woman who, according to shirley and barbara, was a child abandoning drug addled prostitute, probably dead. could this woman really be their mother? hardly a claim allred could take on simple faith. i asked her to come in and see me the very next day, which she was very anxious and happy to do. i asked her to bring me whatever evidence she had. in that meeting, the woman presented her evidence. she brought some photos that she had of pepper and renee when they were very little. she told allred she had been a waitress when the girls were little. brought a photo of that, too, and a picture of shirley and also a photo of a man she said was the girls father, long since dead. she said her name was geri. i asked her immediately, geri, would you be willing to do a dna test? she said i ll take the dna test. but these are my children. i know it. allred put the dna test on the fast track and waited. and within a week called pepper and renee to her office to hear in person the results of the test. 99.99% probability. that s it. yep, that means it s confirmed. i can t believe this is actually happening. how soon could they meet geri, the sisters wanted to know. and what s she like? how did she know shirley? we arranged a reunion for the next day. geri arrived first and told us how she saw the long lost girls on the program. i saw the picture of shirley and went crazy. i knew who she was. and then when i saw the girls, i knew they were mine. after how all those years? 37 years. there they are. what did that feel like? it felt great. i had been hoping to find my children before i die because i was getting old and that was like a miracle. geri s story that shirley who took the girls had been her friend turned roommate turned babysitter. she said i ll babysit for you. i ll take care of her while you work. i said, well, that s great because i really thought i was blessed. first it was renee she looked after. then renee and pepper and then two years later little brother raymond leonard smith jr. wait. brother? it wasn t just the two girls. there was a younger brother the girls never knew they had. the father wasn t around very much. geri supported them all with what she could make as a waitress. and shirley made a change, a positive one, it seemed, at least financially. she got this job supposedly at the motel managing, which was further from where i worked so i arranged with her to watch the kids while i worked. it was a godsend, really, since geri had to be hospitalized for weeks after raymond was born. n then get back to work and find a new home to take the kids to. i come out there on my days off to stay with the kids and spend some time with them. so then i had called her and told her that i was coming to get the kids, and the next day, i went out there, and gone. not a sign of them. no kids. no shirley. frantic then, she went to the police. what did you tell them? your children had been kidnapped. yeah. and they took the report. that s the last i heard. did you go back and talk to them again. i went down there two, three times. they kept telling me the same thing. they hadn t found anything. geri didn t know who else to talk to. so she looked on her own and found year after year nothing. had no idea, she said, that shirley had left pepper with barbara. that barbara persuaded a court that pepper had essentially been abandoned and, thus, could be adopted or that shirley stole her back again. and then there they were telling their story on dateline. telling how shirley and barbara had described her. yes, i heard what they said about me. i was not a street walker. i was a waitress all my life. you also said you didn t really want your children. you were happy to abandon them. i never abandoned my children. never. ever. and would never, ever do that. and she wasn t a drug addict either, she says. she s not had a smooth or easy life. and for much of it, she has missed her children and blamed herself for what happened. trusting shirley? yes. and for not having those kids under your wing all the time? i felt like it was my fault because i put them we re in a hotel room in los angeles. geri is eager, anxious, terrified, visibly shaking. and then they come around the corner. their first meeting in 37 years. a lifetime we ve missed. oh, my god. i feel like i m dreaming still. i can t really get it yet. i can t either. i want to see this face. can i just stare at you for a minute. you can do anything. i don t have a memory. i m sad because i was there with you guys. you re my mommy. yes, you re my babies. you re my babies. it s been 37 years. and just about here as they cling and cry, something rather magical happens. the center of gravity shifts. what happened? what happened? it s renee who wants the answers now. what happened? you will know. you will know. i promise you. you were kidnapped. you were adopted. what happened to me? she was adopted, but what happened to me? i could never find you ever. i thought i d never find you either. i searched and i searched. i didn t know where to go. i had no money for an attorney. when i turned dateline on and saw you girls come on, honey. it s okay. i thought you didn t care about me. no, i loved you, both of you. i could never not love you. i had you. i was so mad at you. i m sure you were. i understand. i thought you gave me away. no. they spent hours together here talking about their pasts, their likes and dislikes. their amazing similarities. we gave them a few weeks to get to know each other, and then sat down again with pepper and renee. so there it is. you have your mother, but what now? are you will you have a relationship with her? well, we re going to move her yes, yes, once she gets all her affairs in order. we re going to move her in. why? because i want her. my husband wants her, too, there, so. i want to have a relationship with my mom. like i was telling you earlier, i want to go shopping. i want to have lunch. i want to go buy stuff. i want to have christmas, thanksgiving, her there with me. and pepper? well, for one thing, pepper has adopted her real birth name, the one that her parents gave her before it was lost in the abductions and the adoptions. it s ronique. ronique smith. i have been very content of finding out who i am, finding my mom, and my real identity and my biological father, seeing a picture of him. all of these exciting things going on. but i think it s not over yet. i don t feel that the journey is quite over yet. it is just starting. this part of it is just starting. so it is, because of course, one of them is still missing. right. yes. our brother, raymond, is still missing. we know that he is out there somewhere. so he is, but not for long. mom? 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advil liqui-gels minis. and now for the conclusion of lost and found, here again is keith morrison. it was pepper s story when we began. pepper officially now ronnique who set out to find a birth certificate and discovered a past that was richer and more complex than even she dreamed possible. to find first the mother of her memory and then her long lost birth mother and to discover that renee was her actual sister and to learn now that she had a brother. raymond leonard smith jr. is what geri called him before he too was snatched away, abducted by the babysitter, shirley. where was he now? geri gave us a copy of the birth certificate and he seemed about 40 now. and our chances of finding him seemed, frankly, slim. we called 40-year-old ray smiths all over the country. ray smith in colorado and ray smith in maryland, new jersey, kansas, but did he go by the name ray smith? and then a call back. it was the ray smith from colorado. he had the right name, the right age, and place of birth and had grown up without knowing any blood relatives. all this ray smith knew was his mother s name, which according to his birth certificate, it was geri. he was starting to sound a lot like our ray. we asked if he would submit to a dna test. he agreed, and there was no doubt, we d found him. we brought ray and his fiancee to a los angeles hotel and showed him the story of his sisters, and in a way, his story, too. i thought that this story, itself, was sad. sounded like they had a rough life. and it was really similar to mine. and so it was. it began the same way, too, when shirley took him from geri except ray was turned over to a woman named annalee brown, and named him jimmy brown, the only name that he knew growing up. she had told me that she had adopted me, but i was also shipped around a lot from home to home, because she had a lot are of health problems, from what i was told. he was neglected, he said, and often abused. bounced around for years. until anna brown shipped him off to a colorado couple when he was 14. that is when he found his birth certificate and started to call himself ray smith, and began puzzling over the apparently unanswerable questions of his life. why did anne name me jim brown if my name was ray? how come i never knew about geri and things like that. then i wondered, you know, was i kidnapped? no answers from anna brown who died soon after that. and as for life in colorado, by the time he was 16 things were getting a little rough. maybe because of my past, i was not a real easy kid. so i was put into foster care. and then, he graduated from high school. he got a job, moved in with some friends, and started his own rock band. this you tube video shows him singing lead. and for all he has wondered about his past, he d come to believe that he would go to the grave without ever meeting a blood relative until now. wow. they are actually in the same building that i am in right now. that is amazing to me. and here they were. oh, my baby. oh. hello. it has been forever. it is great to see you. meeting family for the first time. and you guys kind of look like me. [ laughter ] after so many years. so this is my first time meeting my blood. us, too. it is great. it is so great. same mother and father. and so this is how pepper s desperate search for a warm memory of a lost childhood ended. you look like our dad. yeah? far bigger than she imagined and far better. it is good to see you. it is good to see you, too. the family that was stolen. it is amazing. it is the best gift ever. it is. they sat here for hours and shared their photos and got to know each other. and made plans. wonderful. like families do. that is all for this edition of dateline extra. i m craig melvin. thank you for watching. due to mature subject matter, viewer discretion is advised. the screaming and the pounding and everything, for them it actually is quite normal. 210, baby. what s up? they have nothing better to do and they think they re some kind of gods or something. an up-and-coming gang takes on the old guard and pits two friends against each other in an act of blood-sport. if me and him didn t fight they were going to stab both of us. he struck me several times in the left side of my face.
that s it for me. thanks for watching. tune in tomorrow where i am speaking with congressman jerry connelly. plus, senior adviser and spoke s person for president biden s campaign, adrienne elrod joins us to talk importance of border security to voters ahead of november s election tomorrow at 6:00 p.m. eastern on msnbc. follow us on social media using the handle, at weekend capehart. listened every episode of our show as a podcast for free. scan the qr code on your screen to follow. but, keep it right here. a frightening film about a serial killer. robert barnsley: .he d say, when you re turning the blade, grit your teeth and really really show that you re enjoying it. we had talked about how would you kill somebody and get away with it. i had dark thoughts and shared them with the serial killer. it was supposed to be a movie, a frightening film about a serial killer. you grit your teeth and really show that you on bare enjoying it. but, was it really just pretend? eels get down on the ground and took out duct tape. i have never in my life felt fear like that. a rising young film director filming a murder, or actually committing one? he told me well, you liked dexter. when you take a step back you realize this is a real man who has been murdered. the script was darker than anyone knew. like holy mackerel. who are you, really? everyone was on the edge of their seat. and underground parking garage, you are watching a violent attack caught on tape. who was this? what is happening? or, did it happen at all? movies, like that one, are by design, deceptive. make-believe worlds, but have you noticed maybe it is all the technical doodads and digital cameras. some stories that claim to be true or not. anybody can manipulate reality, sometimes what they say is true is it. sometimes, fiction turns out to be fact, and then there are stories, just a few, and which fact and fiction fuse and that is where we are going tonight, a twilight zone world of illusion and deception and deceit. follow the howling wind north across a vast prairie through brief, brilliant summers and winters as frigid as any on earth to a metropolis canadians call the gateway to the north, the city whose police department stays very busy. this is detective bill clark. the city is edmonton, canada. today i got a call from a family whose son was killed in december. nothing in a career so strange as the case of a man who went missing and bill clark found himself in another world between fantasy and illusion. have you ever seen a case like this before? never in my life. when it started out, it seemed perfectly simple, a missing man, some guy just dropped out of sight, the kind of thing that tends to sort itself out once the so-called victim sobers up. i m not thinking much is going to come of this. after clark s decades of service in the city with the highest murder rate in canada, you can hardly blame them for getting a little picky. we don t usually go to missing person. unfortunately, for us to come out you ve got to be dead and it had better be criminal. if the patrolman doesn t know it s criminal, don t bother calling us. yeah, you got enough to do. which explains perhaps why some of the locals have taken to calling their city, deadmonton. our concern is, do we have a foul play. the missing person in this case is a man by the name of john altinger. 39, single, worked in the oil industry, liked to ride motorcycles. unlucky with women, yet, a wide circle of friends who are now telling the police altinger seem to have dropped off the face of the earth except the strange emails he was sending. i ve left with a woman, i m going to costa rica. one of the recipients of those old emails, his old friend, debra taichrob. i received several of them. i received six altogether, but in runs of three. the exact same message? hi there, i ve met a wonderful girl named jen. i m going to costa rica and i will keep in touch and call you when i get back after the holidays. johnny. almost formal, and away, suddenly like somebody you didn t really know was sending you an email. absolutely, and i was like that s really odd, it doesn t sound like john. it was odd, and even more so when another friend of altinger s received exactly the same message word for word and altinger s facebook status change from single to in a relationship. i think it was the following day, i was on msn messenger and johnny popped on mine, so i thought oh, he must not have left on his vacation yet, and it said johnny, his name, and then in quotations beside his name, who says i ve got a one- way ticket to heaven and i m never coming back. later that same day, debra got a call from the same friend who told her john altinger seems to be missing. it s surreal, you know. you don t expect your friends to go missing. soon, altinger s friends got together, unsure of what to do, really but before going to police, they decided to try to get into his condo, to see if they could find a clue what happened to get the guy in the break-in, actually. everything looked fine. nothing out of place, no sign of any struggle. the only things missing were his wallet, his keys and his red mazda coop, so it was as if he had gone out for a drive and could be back any minute. there were no answers to anything, like he just vanished out of thin air. except for those strange emails he had supposedly sent about falling in love and coaster rica, which to the cops, said clark, seemed perfectly reasonable. not hard to imagine that a lovestruck man might want to leave the snow and ice of edmonton behind and skip off to the tropics. the sky send these emails to his friends and we are going well, that strange, but maybe he did go to costa rica. stranger things have happened. you never know. that is how clark felt before he stepped through the looking glass. coming up, detective clark is about to follow john altinger s trail into a strange place of make-believe , and up-and- coming directors makeshift movie studio. it s a suspense thriller, actually. it s a short film. as soon as they called me on the phone, i got this weird chill. when dateline continues. with wegovy®, i lost 35 pounds. and some lost over 46 pounds. and i m keeping the weight off. wegovy® helps you lose weight and keep it off. i m reducing my risk. wegovy® is the only fda-approved weight-management medicine that s proven to reduce risk of major cardiovascular events in adults with known heart disease and with either obesity or overweight. wegovy® shouldn t be used with semaglutide or glp-1 medicines. don t take wegovy® if you or your family had medullary thyroid cancer, multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2, or if allergic to it. stop wegovy® and get medical help right away if you get a lump or swelling in your neck, severe stomach pain, or an allergic reaction. serious side effects may happen, including pancreatitis and gallbladder problems. wegovy® may cause low blood sugar in people with diabetes, especially if you take medicines to treat diabetes. tell your provider about vision problems or changes, or if you feel your heart racing while at rest. depression or thoughts of suicide may occur. call your provider right away if you have any mental changes. common side effects like nausea, vomiting, and diarrhea may lead to dehydration, which may cause kidney problems. with wegovy®, i m losing weight, i m keeping it off. and i m lowering my cv risk. that s the power of we. check your cost and coverage before talking to your health care professional about wegovy®. you re the one that i want nexgard® combo is the only monthly topical that protects against fleas, ticks, tapeworms, and more. use with caution in cats with a history of seizures or neurologic disorders. nexgard combo,. you re the one that i want .the monthly one-and-done you want. introducing new advil targeted relief. the only topical pain reliever with 4 powerful pain-fighting ingredients that start working on contact to target tough pain at the source. for up to 8 hours of powerful relief. new advil targeted relief. [coughing] copd isn t pretty. i m out of breath, and often out of the picture. but this is my story. ( ) and with once-daily trelegy, it can still be beautiful. because with 3 medicines in 1 inhaler, trelegy keeps my airways open for a full 24 hours and prevents future flare-ups. trelegy also improves lung function, so i can breathe more freely all day and night. trelegy won t replace a rescue inhaler for sudden breathing problems. tell your doctor if you have a heart condition or high blood pressure before taking it. do not take trelegy more than prescribed. trelegy may increase your risk of thrush, pneumonia, and osteoporosis. call your doctor if worsened breathing, chest pain, mouth or tongue swelling, problems urinating, vision changes, or eye pain occur. what a wonderful world [laughing] ask your doctor about once-daily trelegy for copd because breathing should be beautiful, all day and night. condominium, as you can see, looked like anything because breathing should be beautiful, but a crime scene. there were no signs of a struggle, no blood. it was like he just stepped out for a few minutes, could be back anytime. where was he? johnny s friends were convinced something awful had happened to him. so, day after day, they prodded the police; john altinger s condominium looked like anything but a crime scene. there were no signs of a struggle, no blood. it was like he just stepped out for a few minutes and could be back anytime. where was he? and johnny s friends were convinced something awful had happened to him, so day after day, they prodded the police and finally, seven days after johnny went missing, the cops agreed to open an investigation. we just started with the basics. i said with got to start out by finding out if we can find him first so let s find the car. since john altinger s email said he had taken off for costa rica, officers went to the airport to look for that red mazda. they searched every parking lot. it wasn t here. they come through airline passenger lists. he was not on any of them. johnny s friends, meanwhile, went back to the apartment for another look and found, stashed away among his important papers, his passport. they re going oh, not getting out of the country without your passport. seemed like he had to be within driving distance but what direction where? just as the police were contemplating that puzzle, one of altinger s friends came up with another email. this one, johnny had received from a woman he met online. janet was her name, the same woman with whom he had supposedly scampered off to costa rica. they had a date and were going out on the town the night he disappeared and because he had never been to her place, she sent him an email with directions on how to pick her up and out of an abundance of caution, he sent a copy of that email to a friend of his, just in case. i can t remember the last word of the email but he says if anything happens to me, you know where i m at, and you know, laugh out loud. it wasn t a phone number or an address, but there were detailed directions to her place, so the cops drove the root, and the directions led them to this neighborhood down this alley, and to this garage rented by a guy named mark twitchell. he happened to be, in the local arts community, local celebrity. he was making a name for himself in edmonton. he had recently made a low- budget sci-fi movie so they called him up, of course, and he readily agreed to come down and open the place up. when he got here, big surprise, someone had changed the lock. he could not get in, so with permission, officers broken, had a quick look around, and found nothing. just the same, with the changed walk in the weird coincidence of the email, there were things to figure out and mark twitchell was only too happy to tag along to the police station to help out however he could. the first thing i noticed is the padlock did not look familiar to me. twitchell explained he d been using the rented garage is a soundstage most recently for what they call a teaser, a short film designed to drum up publicity , buzz, with any luck, attract enough investor money to allow him to produce a full length feature movie. it s a suspense thriller, actually. a short film. okay, so yeah, suspense thriller? of course, he had a crew in and out of the place during filming, said mark. maybe one of them was up to something but it seemed unlikely, and none of them had ever asked to borrow the set for anything. so, if there was anything like that, if somebody needed to borrow the place or whatever, then they would let me know. they d let you know. they would ask, or something like that, so no, i don t know anything about that. anyway, he said, he had moved on for now to another project. i m working on a comedy right now which is actually a full feature, with a decent budget in the neighborhood of about 3 1/2 million. in the meantime, the garage comes studio was empty, so why would someone break into the place and then change the lock, he wondered. didn t make sense. i had a padlock previously but it wasn t the same one. it was silver on the outside with a black plastic dial in the center and this one was just all metal, so. so, you notice the different padlock on the door. mystifying, said mark. he had a bad feeling about this. a man disappears after telling police he was going to the very place his movie had been shooting. as soon as they called me on the phone, i get this weird chill. what about that woman john altinger had been flirting with online, the one who gave him directions to the garage, told him she would meet him there. the woman who signed her emails jen . does the name, jen, mean anything to you? no. we don t have a jen or anything like that. so, the name jen doesn t mean anything to you? you don t know an actress named jen? so, who was this mystery woman, jen? why in the world which she arranged to meet john altinger here in the very back yard garage and independent edmonton film crew was renting for use as a studio. how odd. especially since the movies producer director, mark twitchell, expressed exactly the same confusion as the police. he didn t get it, either. the dots did not connect. mark twitchell did not know johnny from adam and besides, there was no indication johnny ever made it to the garage at all. the close friends are the ones who have come to the police and they have nothing other than his emails. there was one thing, though, and it came from mark twitchell. he wondered if maybe somebody was being set up. it just doesn t sit right, so the first thing i started asking myself is, who all knows about what we do there and what our schedule looks like and stuff like that. is the disappearance staged somehow? if someone was being fooled, who was it, and why? was all this just some big stunt even a publicity stunt? detective bill clark was thoroughly engaged by now. he had spent a career listening to criminal spender stories. maybe you could figure out if this twitchell guy was trying to play the cops somehow. he pulled the recording of the interview. and i watch an interview, i listen to what the guy says but i m looking at body language, i m looking for signs of deceit. i remember coming out of their going you know, this mark twitchell guy interviewed really well. there were no signs of deception. he is free-flowing with the information. he has answered the questions logically. i don t see any looking away, nervousness, nothing. i see nothing. and then, when police looked into twitchell s production company, they encountered a perfectly legitimate company. more than that, actually. this was a promising effort to help edmonton get some national attention as a potential center of moviemaking. mark twitchell was very good at coming up attention and money from local investors. he was a very sharp, bright, young, articulate entrepreneur. exactly the kind of individual most of us are looking for. so, he checked out. hard-working local boy in the city of hard-working people. good parents, nice young wife, sweet little daughter, on his way to becoming a celebrity here in edmonton. detectives even got a look at the teaser film for twitchell s next projects, three and half million dollar buddy comedy. that is mark in the background playing the role of director even as he was the director, sort of a hall of mirrors type story, a movie about a movie about making a movie or something. fantasy and reality all mixed up somehow. just to cover the bases, police interviewed mark twitchell s crew members and they vouched for him completely. mark twitchell came off squeaky clean. his film company was respected, as was he, and bill clark and the edmonton police back at square one by the look of things. coming up, soon, this tough cop would catch a big break. we got a phone call from a detective. the detective says you won t believe it but this guy just told me he found a red mazda out there. the missing man s car turns up when dateline continues. urns up when dateline continues. -cologuard®? -cologuard. cologuard! -screen for colon cancer. -at home, like you want. -you the man! cologuard is for people 45+ at average risk, not high risk. false positive and negative results may occur. ask your provider for cologuard. i did it my way nothing dims my light like a migraine. with nurtec odt, i found relief. the only migraine medication that helps treat and prevent, all in one. to those with migraine, i see you. for the acute treatment of migraine with or without aura and the preventive treatment of episodic migraine in adults. don t take if allergic to nurtec odt. allergic reactions can occur, even days after using. most common side effects were nausea, indigestion, and stomach pain. it s time we all shine. talk to a healthcare provider about nurtec odt from pfizer. a slow network is no network for business. talk to a healthcare provider that s why more choose comcast business. and now, we re introducing ultimate speed for business our fastest plans yet. we re up to 12 times faster than verizon, at&t, and t-mobile. and existing customers could even get up to triple the speeds. at no additional cost. it s ultimate speed for ultimate business. don t miss out on our fastest speed plans yet! switch to comcast business and get started for $49.99 a month. plus, ask how to get up to an $800 prepaid card. call today! bill clark:ok, i m going to get out here. keith morrison: (voiceover) bill clark is, he doesn t mind admitting it, an old school detective, of the sort that seems to exist more on the big screen than the mean streets. det. bill clark:you guys here last night? keith morrison: (voiceover) in fact, bill clark is an old-school detective, the sort that seems to exist more on the big screen than the mean streets. in fact, clark is such a throwback, the younger guys on the fourth kid him. they call him simple it s after the old hard-nosed detective on the top show, nypd blue. i still like coming to work every day. it s just part of my life. i still have the drive. i m still excited about it. in his decades on the edmonton police force, clark and scene murder take many forms, had seen the shattering effect it has on the family. you are the one the family depends on and i take that seriously. ultimately, that is in the back of your mind, that if you don t speak for the family or the dead guy, who is going to? for clark, there is no greater satisfaction than bringing in a killer. i consider myself a pitbull. you get a case and you get your teeth into it. we want to get the guy, we want to get this guy and put them away. as for the john altinger case, this wasn t even a murder, at least, not as far as anyone new yet, so clark kept himself on a tight leash . he had yet to smell blood. he must ve come to some point where you thought oh, there is definitely foul play here. no, not at all. all that they had, after all, was a missing man, johnny, who might just have driven off somewhere with her without some mystery woman named jen. certainly that would account for the fact that his red mazda coop was gone, too, but really aside from a few curious emails that might or might not make any sense, there was not much to go on, so being cops, clark and his colleagues employed standard procedure. they double back for a second look at things, like the garage johnny was apparently headed for when he vanished. we are thinking our next step logically as the garage. so, they applied for a search warrant and it was rejected. it gets turned down because we are told we have not proven there was a crime committed. so, the next step seemed simple enough. clark went to mark twitchell directly to see if he would give permission to search the garage. he goes yeah. i says i ll need you to sign a consent form. he goes no problem. they requisitioned the form, one of the detectives drove it over to mark s place to get a signature and then, the weirdest thing. i get a phone call from the detective. the detective says to me he says you won t believe it, but the guy just told me he bought a red mazda. a red mazda and didn t john altinger drive a red mazda and was in it missing? mark twitchell had not said anything about a red mazda when he came down to the police station and spoke to the detective the night before. he said he forgot. really? why would he forget i like that ? you don t want to get tunnel vision. i for homicide investigation, don t get tunnel vision so keep an open mind so i pull myself back. there is something fishy going on. clark invited twitchell to come back down to the station for a meeting at 10:30 on sunday night, and twitchell agreed. everything you do now, we are analyzing. we caught the up arrow down our scenario. the burial and up arrow for marcuse cooperative. the missing car, big down arrow. but, that s about all clark had to work with. we are just here trying to find this john fellow, john altinger. i don t know what s happened to johnny. because, once again, as the interview proceeds, the young filmmaker is the very picture of cooperation. he volunteers information, answers questions without hesitation or guile. his demeanor is expensive. even an untrained eye can see twitchell s body language is open, comfortable, and control. so, they get to the story about the red monster. he was approached, he said, a few blocks from his rented garage by an agitated man. it was the night johnny disappeared. the man seemed desperate to get rid of his car, said mark. he offered to sell it for practically nothing. he goes well, i shacked up with this really rich lady, you know, it s like a sugar mama kind of situation and she s going to take care of me and she s going to buy me a new car will we get back from a vacation regular take. and i and okay, is there like cocaine in the truck? i m trying to figure out what the catch is here. apparently, said mark, there was no catch, and nothing wrong with the car except that it had a standard transmission, which he didn t know how to drive, so he left it parked in a friend s driveway. does he live close by? yes, a couple of blocks away. is it finally a break? the detective monitoring the interview sent a patrol car to check it out and sure enough, there it was, empty, by the look of it. nothing untoward about the car. johnny is not in the car. meanwhile, bill clark left the interview room partly to regroup, but also to see how mark would act when they left him alone, and if he was rattled, he certainly didn t show it. here, he calmly placed a call to his wife. well, i tried to answer some more questions and fill them in and everything like that and it turns out that the car is, in fact, belonging to this missing guy and that it s a huge deal. that s what this whole thing is about. what in heavens name was going on? bill clark still did not have a clue. but he might in a minute, because bill clark good cop was about to become bill clark bad cop. coming up there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that you are involved in the disappearance of john altinger. you might be involved, but what was fact and what was fantasy? when dateline continues. when dateline continues. nexium 24hr prevents heartburn acid for twice as long as pepcid. get all-day and all-night heartburn acid prevention with just one pill a day. choose acid prevention. choose nexium. nexgard® plus helps you protect your dog from fleas, ticks, heartworm disease, and more. all in one delicious, monthly, soft chew. use with caution in dogs with a history of seizures or neurologic disorders. nexgard® plus: the one you want for one-and-done protection. nexium 24hr prevents heartburn acid before it begins. get all-day and all-night heartburn acid prevention with just one pill a day. choose acid prevention. choose nexium. israel is saying they rescued four hostages during a raid in gaza. the hostages were kidnapped during the nova music festival october 7th last year. officials meanwhile say more than 200 palestinians were killed in strikes by israel nearby, marking one of the bloodiest single days seen in eight months of war. pro-palestinian protesters descended on the white house to voice their frustration with the president s handling of the israel hamas war so far. for now, back to dateline. almost 4:00 a.m. now, downtown edmonton. filmmaker mark twitchell was sitting in an interview room at the playstation tasking talking to his wife on the phone, fading a little. outside the room, detective bill clark watch twitchell, went over a few notes, prepared to switch tactics. it s already started. the game is on. it s me against him. i know it. he also knew, he was quite sure of it, that all evening, mark twitchell had been handing him a whole load of nonsense and expecting him to believe it but also, all evening, as detective clark listened carefully and contemplated his up arrows and down arrows i agreed with everything he said. this is not the time of the interview to start pushing. it was not the time to start confronting him. that would come later on. because, one of those down arrows led to a particular conclusion. mark twitchell thought clark was a dumb cop. twitchell was trying to play him. while you are reading him during that interview, he had been reading you. no doubt. he probably had made some judgments about your ability as an interviewer. what did he think of you, do you think? i think he didn t think i was that smart. i think he thought he was smarter than me and i believe that he felt that anything he told us, he could concoct to make us believe him. and of course, there is only one proper response to that. i just let him go then taken back through it. question-and-answer, standard procedure, just nail down the details now. now i m starting to see he s not remembering specific details. let s go back to your lunch. you are at lunch. would you go for lunch? don t remember. don t know where you want for lunch? no. so now, it was early morning. they had been at it for hours. they had taken a break and let mark twitchell sit by himself and perhaps stew a bit and now had time for clark to play a different role. we done the good cop routine. now my forte, the bad cop is coming in. this is what i like. this is what i relish. there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that you are involved in the disappearance of john altinger. no doubt in my mind at all. i? now i m going to start hammering him with what i know. the problem is, i know very little. but, now that was perfectly clear to mark twitchell that he was a suspect in the disappearance and maybe a murder, his easy camaraderie seemed to shrivel. his eyes glazed with something that looked like fear . was he truly innocent? or, was something else going on, something more in keeping with his role as a storyteller? why can t you give me the version of events that night? has i m scared. as the night dragged on, twitchell doubled something about reality seeming more like some sort of fantasy. but, in the face of all of detectives clark s accusations, mark twitchell never wavered. for nearly four hours, he answered clark s questions always polite, apparently helpful, did not as much as ask for a lawyer. a by the end of the night? i got nothing. my gut instinct at that time is that the sky is involved up to his neck in this but what exactly he s done, i don t know yet, but i m going to find out. finally, at daybreak, mark twitchell let clark know he d had enough. in my being charged? not yet. am i free to go? yes. and i will. okay. and then, as bill clark escorted mark twitchell out of the building and into the early morning dark, he ups the ante a little, told twitchell he was seizing his car . then he goes he almost stopped and pulled back and he goes well, i need to get something out of it and i says you re getting nothing. i m taking that car. and, it was then, as clark approached twitchell s car to take it to the impound yard, that he noticed mark s unusual license plate personalized dark jedi. coming up. i have never in my life felt fear like that. police find witnesses who saw something that seemed like a horror movie. it s like every nightmare you had as a child after watching a scary movie, every nightmare you ve ever had. all of a sudden it s right here. when dateline continues. here. when dateline continues. is no exception. it s time you had a proven choice to help restore what s yours. opzelura is the first and only fda-approved prescription treatment for nonsegmental vitiligo. proven to help repigment skin over time. restoring what s yours. it s possible with a steroid-free cream that you can apply yourself. opzelura can lower your ability to fight infections including tb or hepatitis b or c. serious lung infections, skin cancer, blood clots, and low blood cell counts occurred with opzelura. in people taking jak inhibitors, serious infections, increased risk of death, lymphoma, other cancers, and major cardiovascular events have occurred. the most common side effects were acne and itching where applied. repigmentation is possible. ask your dermatologist today about starting or refilling opzelura. pursue it. you re the one that i want nexgard® combo is the only monthly topical that protects against fleas, ticks, tapeworms, and more. use with caution in cats with a history of seizures or neurologic disorders. nexgard combo,. you re the one that i want .the monthly one-and-done you want. everybody wants super straight, super white teeth. they want that hollywood white smile. new sensodyne clinical white provides 2 shades whiter teeth and 24/7 sensitivity protection. i think it s a great product. it s going to help a lot of patients. diabetes can serve up a lot of questions. like what is your glucose and can you have more carbs? before you decide with the freestyle libre 3 system know your glucose and where it s heading no fingersticks needed. now the world s smallest and thinnest sensor sends your glucose levels directly to your smartphone. manage your diabetes with more confidence and lower your a1c. the #1 cgm prescribed in the u.s. try it for free at freestylelibre.us stay ahead of your moderate-to-severe eczema. and show off clearer skin and less itch with dupixent, the #1 prescribed biologic by dermatologists and allergists, that helps heal your skin from within. serious allergic reactions can occur that can be severe. tell your doctor about new or worsening eye problems such as eye pain or vision changes including blurred vision, joint aches and pain, or a parasitic infection. don t change or stop asthma medicines without talking to your doctor. ask your eczema specialist about dupixent. keith morrison: edmonton homicide detective bill clark, ask your eczema specialist along with other members of the edmonton police service, felt a little like alice in the rabbit hole. their missing man, johnny altinger, had vanished without a trace. and there were whispers his disappearance could be part of some publicity stunt. their only suspect was an aspiring movie producer, a storyteller, who stood up to a bill clark grilling with his manners intact, even though, by this time, clark couldn t edmonton homicide detective bill clark along with other members of the edmonton police service felt a little like alice in the rabbit hole. they re missing man, john altinger, had vanished without a trace and there were whispers his disappearance could be part of some publicity stunt. their only suspect was an aspiring movie producer storyteller who stood up to a bill clark grilling with his man is intact even though by this time, clark could not shake the gut feeling that this movie director was one very bad day. i was thinking he had filmed whatever he did done to johnny. i was thinking he had killed him and filmed the murder. so, as police looked through twitchell s car and home, they had the idea they might find videotape of her murder. instead, what they discovered was an affair. twitchell had a girlfriend and when his wife found out about that, she kicked him out. but, twitchell seemed, at least to the outside world, unperturbed and instead of falling apart, he simply retreated to his childhood home and moved in with his parents and so, clark paid twitchell s dad and mom a visit. they just struck me as a parent for her son does nothing wrong where s the father wanted to hear what i had to say, and he listened but he got over it. they set up a surveillance team, 24 hour watch to keep an eye on the house and twitchell, but his behavior was anything but suspicious. he went on about his business, took meetings with investors about his movie project, even picked up a $35,000 check from his financial backer. the mark twitchell i was dealing with was articulate, in control, running his project the way you would expect any entrepreneur to be running his project. in detective clark s world of up arrows and down arrows there was one more huge up arrow in twitchell s favor. motive, or that is to say the lack of one. there was no earthly reason for twitchell to kill altinger. there was no love triangle, no rivalry, there was no robbery and to put it more simply, twitchell was not a criminal. did not have a record, had never even been arrested. why would a young, married father killed a perfect stranger? so, besides twitchell, police also focus their attention on this quiet suburban neighborhood around twitchell s rented garage studio where john altinger may have gone to see a woman he met online. they went door-to-door , had anyone seen john altinger or his car or anything suspicious? they found this couple who told a story that seemed almost lifted from a horror movie. i have never in my life felt fear like that. these two, their names are marissa and trevor, were out for an evening stroll when they stepped through the looking glass. it happened when a young man came stumbling out of this alley and collapsed in front of them. he was on the ground and it was just an instant bad feeling. he looked up and said i m being robbed. can you help me? then, as if on cue, another man. in pursuit. as i looked up the attacker almost ran into me. the attacker was wearing a dark, hooded sweatshirt and a hockey mask. it s like every nightmare you have as a child after watching a scary movie. every nightmare you ve ever had. all of a sudden, it s right here. this was no bewitching hour. it was 7:30, and early autumn sun had just begun to take on the glow of a long, northern evening. neighborhood kids were still struggling home from soccer practice. is it believable to you? yes and no, because the way that he fell, to me, looked staged. to get us to stop so they could grab us. yeah, we thought it was a set up for us. so, you did not know whether he was going to assault you or whether he was running from that guy for real. exactly. then, so trevor and marissa, the masked man retreated into the alley to this garage. that is where he stood. he stood there like he was protecting something. i was like, i m getting out of here right now. trevor and marissa left the man on the ground pleading for help like some seasoned method actor and left. when i got home, they called the police, so squad cars prowled the streets as the autumn wind light angled toward the horizon but in that quiet, nothing seemed out of place. nothing amiss. that was that until weeks later when police came back here looking for john altinger . was the guy in the alley actually johnny, not an actor, was he a real victim? one of the detectives went downtown to check on the report taken from trevor and marissa, and it didn t fit. that call was taken a week before johnny disappeared. besides, no victim ever came forward. no one claimed to have been attacked by a masked man. the whole thing sounded almost like , well, like a scene from the movie. coming up, or just maybe, a tv show about a serial killer. what attracted you to director? what i loved about the show in the books is how he was able to explore that darkside, rationalize that it s okay to kill somebody because this person deserves it in a way. and dateline continues. y. and dateline continues. but this is my story. 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(dad) we never thought that with verizon, saving on the the best in entertainment was gonna be so easy before. we had to pretend we had seen all these shows. now that we have verizon, we can stop pretending. (vo) disney+, hulu, espn+, netflix and max. all for just $20/mo. only on verizon. her uncle s unhappy. (mom) my turn. i m sensing an underlying issue. it s t-mobile. it started when we tried to get him under a new plan. but they they unexpectedly unraveled their “price lock” guarantee. which has made him, a bit. unruly. you called yourself the “un-carrier”. you sing about “price lock” on those commercials. “the price lock, the price lock.” so, if you could change the price, change the name! it s not a lock, i know a lock. so how can we undo the damage? we could all unsubscribe and switch to xfinity. their connection is unreal. and we could all un-experience this whole session. okay, that s uncalled for. to light under the northern sun, especially with the aid of a search warrant. as bill clark and his colleagues closed in on movie maker mark strange things come to light under the northern son, especially with the head of a search warrant. as bill clark and his colleagues closed in on moviemaker mark twitchell, they seized his office computer, found in his house, and on the computer s hard drive, they found this video that looked almost like a movie. a horror movie. no, it was not a snuff film, was not john altinger s murder caught on tape. it was raw footage of one of twitchell s tease films, the one he had told the detective about the first time he d talked to him. it s a suspense thriller, actually. it s a short film. house of cards is what twitchell was calling it. get enough people talking about this and he might persuade some investor to ante up the money for a feature-length film. in house of cards, killer poses online as a flirtatious woman to entrap her victim. in this scene, it is a philandering husband who tells his wife he s heading off to the gym. but, once he arrives at the rendezvous site, the victim is dropped with a stun baton. murdered, then cut up into little bits. imagine a cross between friday the 13th and dexter. the victim in this teaser version was played by edmonton comedian, chris hayward. so, police decided to have a little chat with mr. hayward, but when they showed up at his door, hayward, no slouch when it came to the entertainment business, thought it was a prank of some sort. i worked on reality television. it was one of the first things i got into television on. they throw you curveballs and they have writers and i didn t know. i thought somebody s making this up. this can t be true. this is not a real story. police also tracked down toronto actor robert barnsley who played the starring role of the deranged mass murderer. i was thinking great sure and fill out the short film. i like the idea of this. of course i want to try to be the killer. he seemed like a very normal guy trying to do a film. very nice, very pleasant. playing a serial killer was almost too much fun, said barnsley. it got kind of scary for i enjoyed it too much. you got to be a sadist big- time. absolutely. very fun for me to play. i rather enjoyed doing it. i was thinking my to myself, that i just think i could do this and make it believable? which, said barnsley, was exactly what director twitchell seemed to want. there s a point where i had to stab the dummy through the chest with a samurai sword and he was sitting behind the chair he d be leaning in and say okay listen, when you re turning the blade, grit your teeth and really show that you re enjoying it. wait a minute, was this all about enjoying some fantasy game, pretending to be evil? detectives surfed around twitchell s computer account and discovered a facebook relationship that was all about pretending. at about the time he started filming house of cards, twitchell befriended an animal trainer and aspiring filmmaker, a woman named renee wary. and edmonton detective flew all the way to cleveland to question her, where she, right up front about it, told him about clicking on an intriguing facebook profile, dexter morgan. there was a picture of michael c hall, the actor who portrays dexter morgan on showtime. did you think you are friending the actor himself? sure, you know. what attracted you to dexter? what i love about the show in the books is how he was able to explore that darkside and rationalize that it s okay to kill somebody because this person deserved it, in a way. we flirted back and forth and i kept asking him who are you really, tell me who you are because i want to see the man behind the mask. finally, rene s facebook friend relented. no, he was not actor michael c hall, he admitted. his name was mark twitchell. once he told me who he was, i checked them out, you know. i did a lot of research online and found out that he was legitimate and he was up-and- coming. for rene, the would-be filmmaker, this seemed like her big break. he expressed interest in me and my writing styles and my ideas. what did he like about your writing style? you never said specifically. he just said i think we have, you know, like chemistry together and how we would be able to work very well together , and that we thought a lot alike. this had to be pretty exciting. yes. soon, she was intoxicated by this online collaboration and then wonder of wonders, he offered her work on his next project, the feature-length version of his short film, a film, he told her, about a serial killer. we had talked about our hypotheticals about how to kill somebody and get away with it. he told me well, you do it like dexter because dexter shows you how to do it all the time. dark? yes, but all in fun, of course, like twitchell s playful advice on eliminating, and dexter -like fashion, one of rene s rival in romance. with both her hands wrapped in duct tape, free one arm and slit the wrist. a hunters game processing kit comes with everything you need to cut the body into nice, manageable pieces. disturbing? yes but remember, all pretense. but then, a couple of weeks later, and this is what she told the police, something happened, strange and unsettling. there was a weekend-long pause in their play talk about dexter the darkside. not a single email from her friend, mark twitchell. then, when they came in with it, an apology that also had something else keeping me busy, he wrote. i m really concerned about telling anyone because of the implications. suffice it to say i crossed the line on friday. and, i liked it. crossed the line? what did that mean? coming up. was this all part of an elaborate hoax? a staged fantasy were something truly terrifying, when dateline continues. truly terrifying, when dateline continues. 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(vo) new and existing customers get iphone 15 on us when they trade in any iphone. verizon what causes a curve down there? who can treat this? stop typing, and start talking. it could be a medical condition called peyronie s disease, or pd. you re not alone, there is hope. find a specialized urologist who can diagnose and treat pd. visit makeapdplan.com today. nexium 24hr prevents heartburn acid for twice as long as pepcid. get all-day and all-night heartburn acid prevention with just one pill a day. choose acid prevention. choose nexium. keith morrison: (voiceover) it was choose acid prevention. halloween in edmonton, canada. halloween, a highlight in most any child s fantasy calendar, the night to be the terrible creature she it was halloween and edmonton, canada. i highlight almost any child s fennessey calendar, the night the terrible creature could never really be. mark twitchell loved halloween. spent weeks, months actually, stitching together getups, outlandish costumes. in 2008, weeks after his wife kicked him out and cops began tailing him everywhere, he decided to be ironman. built the costume in his parents garage. but, on the very witchy afternoon, hours from his planned grand entrance to a gala halloween party, as he was walking to a local coffee house to meet with potential movie investors, he was thrown to the ground by men wearing their own unique costumes. members of the s.w.a.t. team. mark twitchell was handcuffed and charged with the murder of johnny altinger. that made big headlines. police even held a press conference to announce the arrest. the reporters who had gathered were left with one juicy tidbit. we have a lot of information that he idolizes dexter. we went to his facebook page. steve was a crime reporter for the edmonton journal. he had a post that said mark twitchell is too much in common with dexter morgan and the idea that there s a man out there who is attacking strangers, innocent victims, it s almost myth. something built up by hollywood. it didn t seem like it could be real. in edmonton, the question began to circulate. had the cops been played by a clever promoter? mark twitchell is known as a prankster. people thought it was a hoax. you almost wonder whether or not he was doing it as a publicity stunt. exactly. so maybe, bill clark and the rest of the police force would wind up with red faces and not just from the cold. except, there was one little bit of news police did not announce. when they searched twitchell s car, they found a laptop and on the hard drive at that laptop, very smart detective found a deleted temporary file. a document about 40 pages long. could be described as a diary, maybe a far-fetched novel right treatment for a dexter episode. it was called sk confessions. it was a first person account written from the perspective and aspiring serial killer. i remember reading this the first day when they brought it down and i said holy mackerel, this tells us everything. except he s a professional storyteller who tells, you know, movies. they are not real. weren t you afraid you might be about to be drawn into a rabbit hole? something that might be true or not be true, it might be f&s e- absolutely. we had huge discussions about this. it read more like a work of fiction. like a story that could not possibly be true. it seems like a hoax right from the opening paragraph. this is the story of my progression into becoming a serial killer. i don t remember the exact place and time it was i decided to be a serial killer, but i remember the sensation that hit me. it was a rush of pure euphoria. there was something about exploring my dark side the greatly appealed to me. the author seemed inspired by the tv show dexter. i m a huge fan of the showtime series dexter, as you may have guessed, if you re at all familiar with the show. and a particular scene played an important role. i watched an episode of dexter where the flashback showed his father showing dexter a scan of the human brain. he identify the difference between a serial killer sprain in a normal person s brain. i was convinced that what i was was my own decision, my own path, but now i truly wondered if i had little choice at all. of genetics play a bigger role than i thought. i knew i was a psychopath further than he sociopaths because i had the perfect upbringing and no history of abuse, violence, or trauma. in sk professions, it s graphic. how the killer dispatches victims with a mental mental pipe. i thrusted in his gut. his reaction was pure hollywood. the lurch forward with the grant was dead on tv movie of the week. the little i knew at the time and the things i found, thought it was true. cops can have hunches and think what they want, but this hunches really hold up in court. sk confessions could be a make- believe story, might not be written by twitchell. it could ve been downloaded from the internet . investigators started going through sk confessions line by line, to see if they could sort out fact from fiction. and, indeed, police found details that lined up with reality. the writer in his first person account tells the reader how he used a processing kit to dismember the victim s body and police found a processing kit in twitchell s garage. the killers said he tried to burn the victim s body in an oil drum and his parents backyard. at twitchell s parents backyard, they found a burned ring on the back lawn. there was a detail about the killer getting a speeding ticket and so did twitchell about the time that johnny altinger disappeared. he joked about it about how this dumb cop didn t realize he had just killed a guy. he was now going out to celebrate and have sex with his girlfriend. the cop remembered up. it came back and we know the conversation. it was basically word for word that story told us. exactly what the sheriff told us. there was a key part of the story that could not be verified. a passage that goes on for pages about an earlier attack, but that victim got away. that part of the story read like that directly from the house of cards grip where the victim is tasered by man wearing a hockey mask and hood. it s a big part to prove it s true or not. it was a huge part. if someone had been attacked that way, you would ve heard of it. exactly. we got nothing. no call. nothing that even matches the similarity. is seem to be one part of the story that didn t make sense. they went public and released a photo of the hockey mask. that what week somebody s memory that that was me. it was a longshot, really. maybe that person did not exist. they put it out there. they waited. not for long. because, that very evening, a lonely casino security officer named gilles tetreault was puttering on his computer and saw the newspaper article online. the police appeal. they felt the blood drain from his face. that person was him. i am like, oh my god. it s the same hockey mask as i saw, that the guy was wearing. i started reading the story. oh, my god, someone got killed. that terrifying evening came crashing back into his head. it was he, gilles tetreault, who so frightened that couple out for a stroll. he picked up the phone and before long found himself in a little room with detective bill clark. in my career, it was probably the most spellbinding interview i ve ever had with a witness. now, you are about to hear that story firsthand. coming up. all of a sudden i see this man wearing this black and gold hockey mask. this guy was bigger than me. the horror story really happened. life flash before my eyes. oh, my god. my family will never see me again. again. govy®. with wegovy®, i lost 35 pounds. and some lost over 46 pounds. and i m keeping the weight off. wegovy® helps you lose weight and keep it off. i m reducing my risk. wegovy® is the only fda-approved weight-management medicine that s proven to reduce risk of major cardiovascular events in adults with known heart disease and with either obesity or overweight. wegovy® shouldn 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[coughing] copd isn t pretty. i m out of breath, and often out of the picture. but this is my story. ( ) and with once-daily trelegy, it can still be beautiful. because with 3 medicines in 1 inhaler, trelegy keeps my airways open for a full 24 hours and prevents future flare-ups. trelegy also improves lung function, so i can breathe more freely all day and night. trelegy won t replace a rescue inhaler for sudden breathing problems. tell your doctor if you have a heart condition or high blood pressure before taking it. do not take trelegy more than prescribed. trelegy may increase your risk of thrush, pneumonia, and osteoporosis. call your doctor if worsened breathing, chest pain, mouth or tongue swelling, problems urinating, vision changes, or eye pain occur. what a wonderful world [laughing] ask your doctor about once-daily trelegy for copd because breathing should be beautiful, all day and night. ceover) when gilles tetreault joined because breathing should be beautiful, the strange developing horror movie plot up in edmonton, gilles tetreault joined the developing horror movie plot in edmonton, canada. a man with a broken heart. lonely in a new city without the wife who had left him for another life. she just wanted to move on? she fell out of love with me, i guess. that s not easy. when he came across that lovely, intelligent woman on an online dating site and she seemed to like him? well, who could resist. she looked beautiful in her profile. i believe i made the first contact. what did she say about herself? she said she was new in town and looking to meet people. i found it a coincidence. so was i kind of thing. with a view alone and looking to meet someone. i thought this is perfect. sheena was her name. she said how about dinner and a movie. she started making excuses that i couldn t pick her up at her front door. so has stayed asked him to park in an alley and comes right back entrance, through a detached garage. she would leave the garage door open and i would go through the garage to the other side, get into the yard and knock on the back door to pick her up. i didn t have to crawl under it. i just had to squat. hopeful, unsuspecting, he walked through the garage door, the store, that leads to the back patio. i touched the not and all of a sudden somebody attacked me from behind. i turned back to look to see what s going on. that is when, all of a sudden, i see this man wearing this black and gold hockey mask. this guy was much bigger than me. prodding me with a stun gun. at first gilles couldn t tell what it was this stinging at the back of his neck. but listen to this from sk confessions? pressing the baton across the back of his neck, pulled the trigger. shocked and jump but did little more than merely alert him to what was going on. i tried to make a run for it. that s when he pulled out a gun. what is that like when somebody pulls a gun on you? terrified. i didn t know what to do. oh, my god, i think i m going to die and i cannot get away. there is no way i can escape a bullet. i felt a sick feeling. i pointed it at him and all of a sudden he took me seriously. his eyes wide. then he yells, get down on the ground. put your face down and close your eyes and put your hands in the back. he took out duct tape. he ripped off a piece. that s when he covered my eyes with them. just about then, gilles tetreault decided hits come to the moment of his death. i started tearing up. it was like life flashed before my eyes. it was quite emotional. oh, my god. my family is never going to see me again. i never told anyone where i was going that day. all of a sudden, by my legs, i hear his belt jiggling. what gilles heard was the sound of handcuffs as they neared his wrists. he said he felt the attacker was undoing his belt. i thought, he is going to rape may. i better fight for my life. i would rather die my way than his way. i knew he s going to pull the gun out again. you know what? if it kills me, it kills me. gilles makes his move. i darted for the gun. grabbed the end and pushed it away from my body. but this fight is far from over. he comes after me and grabs my legs. he starts dragging me back. me e of your health. centrum gives every body a healthy foundation. supporting your - oops - energy, immunity and metabolism. and yours too! you did it! plus try centrum silver, now clinically proven to support memory in older adults. hi, i m janice and i lost 172 pounds on golo. now clinically proven a friend told me that i was the only one holding me back from being as beautiful on the outside as i am on the inside. once i saw golo was working i felt this rush. golo really works. norman, bad news. i never graduated from med school. what? -but the good news is. xfinity mobile just got even better! now, you can automatically connect to wifi speeds up to a gig on the go. plus, buy one unlimited line and get one free for a year. i gotta get this deal. i know. faster wifi and savings? .i don t want to miss that. that s amazing doc. mobile savings are calling. visit xfinitymobile.com to learn more. doc? he d been lured into a garage then assaulted by a masked man gilles tetreault was in a battle for his life. had been lured into a garage and assaulted by masked man with the gun. now he is determined to turn the tables. get up and rip off the duct tape and i yell at them. i said, i can t do this. i m not going down like this. he started yelling at me. it back down on the ground. back down on the ground. i darted for the gun. grabbed the end and pushed it away from my body. he got back to his feet, having removed the duct tape. when i pointed the gun at him again, he grabbed a. it was the best feeling i felt in my life because i felt plastic when i grabbed it. immediately. who suddenly realized? it was a fake gun. i think i might ve seen a gleam that indicated he felt the gun construction a realized it was not real. i grabbed him by the arms and we re struggling all over the garage. according to sk confessions, by fighting back, had taken the story off script. overestimating the stun baton is a mistake i would not repeat. i should ve just pounded him on the back of the head while he was down until he lay unconscious on the floor. i tried to kick him. he saw me going to do that, so he actually went and swiped my leg and i almost fell down. i almost lost my shoe. i am thinking, i can t get down. if i get down on the ground, you are cooked. exactly. s adrenaline had been pumping and he was unaware how the shock from the stun baton had sapped his strength. my muscles could not move. i was so weak. he goes forward and tries to headbutt meet me. that s when he says, because you did not cooperate, this is the way it has to be. he starts punching me in the head. he stumbled back with every blow, closer and closer to the open garage door. i am letting him punch me. he punches me again. he grabs my jacket so i slipped out of my jacket and ruled under the garage door. i made it out of the garage. i start to try to run. all of a sudden, it s like my legs were paralyzed. i could not move. i fell on my face. a nightmare where you can get away from that monster. i start crawling away on this unpaved driveway. sure enough, he comes underneath the garage after me. grabs my legs and he starts dragging me back. i m thinking, oh, my god, i don t know how i will get away again. i have nothing left. there s nothing else i can do. underneath the door. au he drags me back and throw me back into the garage underneath the door. i m thinking, he does not have a hold of me anymore. this is my chance. i can maybe get away again and i roll underneath the garage door. i got back up, and in my head, i was like, there is no way i am not running this time. terrified. exhausted, gilles tetreault ran 30 or 40 feet to this pedestrian path and that s when he collapsed in front of trevor and marissa. i look up and i see a couple walking their dog. i couldn t really talk. all i could say is there s a man after me. he is trying to mug me, please, help me. they looked stunned. they didn t know what was going on. to me, felt like it was taking the masked man forever to come after me. but he came running after me. he comes close to me and i tell him them, that s the man. as i looked up, the attacker almost ran into me. once he saw the couple, he said, come on, frank. the guy was pretending they were friends. he was pretending he was going to live the mask like we were playing. then he does. he turns around and starts walking back to the garage. i stared back at them through my mask and then headed back for the cover of my layer. it was only once he arrived safe at home that gilles tried to put it together. how? what in the world just happened? who was the man behind the mask? and why had he been attacked? i decided i need to go back onto that online dating website. i want to get as much information as i can so i can give it to police. i go back on and all of a sudden, everything was gone. her profile was gone. although sent and received messages i got from the person were all gone. what is it like to be sitting alone in front of your computer with that realization in your head? it felt almost ashamed. i can t believe i got duped by this woman. i just want to put this behind me. i want to move on. and did not call the police. no, did not. i had no idea. for weeks, i had nightmares. i kept githinking, maybe this g is following me. maybe he s going to attack me again. i was terrified. i was facing him there with a gun. a month after his journey into the twilight zone, gilles tetreault was giving bill clark a videotape blow-by-blow of the assault. there s no doubt he is being truthful. the cops had real evidence that sk confessions was all true. except, it was not quite complete. it was a story without an end. the part we never had, we never had johnny. johnny altinger. the victim who it seemed did not escape from this suburban garage, still no sign of him. unless, just about then the detectives uncovered some of the, updated version of sk confessions. there was one more chapter. in which the killer leaves a clue. impossible to resist. the police take mark twitchell on a journey to the place where something evil had happened. here we are back at the killing garage. killing garage. nexium 24hr prevents heartburn acid for twice as long as pepcid. get all-day and all-night heartburn acid prevention with just one pill a day. choose acid prevention. choose nexium. nexgard® plus helps you protect your dog from fleas, ticks, heartworm disease, and more. all in one delicious, monthly, soft chew. use with caution in dogs with a history of seizures or neurologic disorders. nexgard® plus: the one you want for one-and-done protection. i still love to surf, snowboard, or neurologic disorders. and, of course, skate. so, i take qunol magnesium to support my muscle and bone health. qunol s extra strength, high absorption magnesium helps me get the full benefits of magnesium. qunol, the brand i trust. i m richard lui. is real saying it rescued four hostages during a raid in gaza who had been kidnapped by hamas during the music festival october 7. officials say more than 200 palestinians were killed by airstrikes nearby. marks one of the bloodiest single days and eight months of war so far. a 3-year-old horse took the victory in the 156 running of the belmont stakes. there was no triple crown champion is over two different winners in the kentucky derby and preakness stakes. loved the tv show dexter, was so taken with the whole idea the would be movie direction or dashed director loved the tv show dexter. so taken with the whole idea that he posted this online ad, attempt to sell the script for his house of cards short film as if it were an original dexter episode. in fact, the story of his computer, the one called sk confessions is a lot like an episode of the tv show. now, here in his rented garage, police found what looked like a kill room. there was plastic sheeting. autopsy table. all matching the careful descriptions in sk confessions. what the killer could not learn from dexter s how to dispose of the body. the tv dexter lives in miami, dumps his victims in the atlantic. but, edmonton in the middle of thousands of square miles of farmland and oilfields has hundreds of miles from the ocean and that fact seem to have stymied the sk controller who up had no idea how to get rid of the remains. perhaps it never occurred to him to put the body in the trunk of a car and drive it past city limits and bury it behind some old abandoned barn. so, according to sk confessions, tried burning them. that did not work. he thought about throwing them in the saskatchewan river there one town but was afraid someone would see him. he finally decided to toss them down one of the thousands of storm drains. the diary had got to a point where he talked about dumping the body in a sewer and then it ended. by this time, clark believed that the diary was true. all of it. without a body in a case as bizarre as this one, how could any jury be sure any important parts of this sk confessions wants some fantasy from the dark side? clark confronted twitchell with the evidence hoping he would confess. this reminds me of dexter. kill room. clean sweep. you were referring to your garages a kill room. your garage was a kill room. the table is the killed table. it s where you carved him up. i will show you that later but all the blood seeps underneath. the dude dna matching. when i say the show dexter, and you ve seen the show. it s all modeled after dexter. you know that. you kind of look like the guy. i look at that picture, i saw the one on your website, you even look the same. he kills people who needs killing. these guys who get off in court. the guys get off on technicality. he kills people who needs killing. the difference here is you killed a guy who really was no harm to society. there was no response at all. the next day clark and another detective took twitchell and drove him around edmonton hoping he would give up information. what was his demeanor like? defiant. assiduous show is where the body is. will show us where johnny is and drove right here. parked in front of his parents house. after that? mark twitchell was taken to a place that was the center of his life. here we are the killing garage. the dexter garage. look familiar? we parked on top of the sewer where you d dumped the body? jog your memory. clark even took twitchell to the back of the garage, the suspect a crime scene, hoping it would trigger some level of remorse. bring back any memories? want to tell us where the body is? get this over with? okay. back in the car, another detective heard of camera starts working on twitchell. you humiliate your victim. knocked him over the head. carve him up. chop him up. this pales in comparison. twitchell said nothing, at least not in person. he had said plenty in sk confessions, if he was the author. the document was incomplete, ending in a jumble of unrecoverable computer code. com hon, we are to the point where he dumped the body and we don t know the location. a detective did a slow, methodical search through the desktop computer found in twitchell s home, and it paid up. on the computer, once deleted but now found was yet another version of sk confessions with a view tantalizing paragraphs describing the location of the victim s remains. he talks about a specific sewer. how it s off an alley in a grassy area, and an old neighborhood. he talks about telephone poles in the alley. only certain neighborhoods here have telephone poles. the older ones. that s about the time bill clark became a man obsessed. we were pulling manhole covers up. i d be with a flashlight and looking down. we would call the city crews in. nothing. enough to make a person doubt his sanity. coming up. police were about to get some help. a man that open the case. they stopped right here. a year and a half later, where did you find the body? 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after 1.5 years, call from the city jail, and meet wanted to talk to detectives. his name, mark twitchell. he handed over a print out of this google map. at the bottom of the page there was a handwritten note. location of johnny altinger s remains. it was one block south of his parents house and that alley. this is the alley behind the home. it matched perfectly with the description from sk confessions, and in fact, this area had been searched by police a year and a half earlier. they pulled all these sewers all the covers? all the covers. they searched each one and they found nothing. this block, this area, and they sent cameras down the lines where they go down the lines and sneak them down and found nothing. where do they stop? about where you and i are standing. a year and a half later, where did you find the body? right down there. five telephone poles down half a block from where we stopped the search. this was johnny altinger s tomb. there is a piece of trash he probably thought it would get washed away. deteriorate to a point where it would be unidentifiable or no one would look. no one would ever look. why weeks before his murder trial was set to begin did mark twitchell give up johnny altinger s body? there must ve been a reason. because of all the publicity the case generated, the judge slapped a gag order on the press, the police, everybody. which is one the first day of the trial, the disclosure that altinger s body had been uncovered catches everyone by surprise. the reporter is written a book about the case. it doesn t get more explosive than that. it was new information no one had heard before. the trial only got more bizarre is the prosecution unveiled for the first time sk confessions. sitting in the courtroom became a journey deep into the wilderness of a mind of darkness. horde details were written down. no detail was not told within this document. it sounds just like it is fiction, like a script, but when you step back you realize it s a real person. it is a real man who has been murdered. was johnny altinger murder? twitchell admitted he dumped the remains down the storm drain, he never said he murdered him. never admitted he was the author of sk confessions. detectives knew they would need more than this document to get a conviction. the quietly build a case on csi basics. take the garage. this is what it looked like during the normal light of day. and this is a photo taken from the same angle minutes later once the floor was sprayed with luminal, the chemical that makes blood glow. huge spots in the garage would indicate pooling of blood. we found a piece of a human tooth in the garage. we found blood spatter along the walls and the garage door. hundreds of spots where repeating had taken place. also? csi investigators found this gang processing kit. hunters would take it to cut up a moose or whatever they have killed. this is what he used and every single tool in the kit had our victim s dna on it. in his car, police found other hard evidence. we find a knife and there. a knife with blood. visible blood? visible blood and it matches johnny altinger. he left it in the car? and the car is a gold mine . it absolutely blows the case wide open. there are yellow sticky notes on the console. one has a map drawn from the garage to johnny altinger s apartment. he kept everything. wrote everything down. after the presentation of the hard evidence, his coworkers were called to testify. one of the first was the actor who played the victim in house of cards. on his way to court that morning, he worried. what would happen if twitchell is acquitted? i feel he would probably kill me. chris was not alone. rene was unsettled too the day she testified but for another reason altogether. i didn t want to feel judge. because? i have dark thoughts and i shared them with a serial killer. johnny altinger s friend testified. there was nervousness, for sure. and a lot of sadness that day for me. all i can do is speak for john and the person he was. a nice man. definitely. if things had not turned out the way it did, he would ve found what he was looking for in life. it was the first time she had gotten a clear look at mark twitchell . he seemed like a normal, average person off the street. that is what disturbed me. twitchell remained stonefaced even when his wife took the stand. she is crying through all of this. mark twitchell s reaction was nearly blank. when this video was shown a chord during bill clark s testimony, twitchell became unraveled. he starts to cry and tears are streaming down his face. he is getting hysterical. the judge recognized and they took a break. when it comes back after the break, mark twitchell is no better. still very upset and he is crying. he actually faces detective clark and he starts talking to him. he said i am sorry for lying to you. this is extraordinary. you never have the accused talking to one of the primary investigators in the middle of their murder trial. this was far from the strangest moment of the trial. that came in the case for the defense when the attorney called it one witness. mark twitchell. the room was packed. i think everyone was on the edge of their seat wondering what does this guy going to say? twitchell finally had an audience. when he had been waiting 2.5 years to tell. what a story it was. he said you could blend fiction and reality so closely together that everyone would be fooled. fooled. [coughing] copd isn t pretty. i m out of breath, and often out of the picture. but this is my story. ( ) and with once-daily trelegy, it can still be beautiful. because with 3 medicines in 1 inhaler, trelegy keeps my airways open for a full 24 hours and prevents future flare-ups. trelegy also improves lung function, so i can breathe more freely all day and night. trelegy won t replace a rescue inhaler for sudden breathing problems. tell your doctor if you have a heart condition or high blood pressure before taking it. do not take trelegy more than prescribed. trelegy may increase your risk of thrush, pneumonia, and osteoporosis. call your doctor if worsened breathing, chest pain, mouth or tongue swelling, problems urinating, vision changes, or eye pain occur. what a wonderful world [laughing] ask your doctor about once-daily trelegy for copd because breathing should be beautiful, all day and night. choose advil liqui-gels for faster, stronger and longer-lasting relief than tylenol rapid release gels because advil targets pain at the source of inflammation. so for faster pain relief, advil the pain away. hi, i m kevin and i ve lost 152 pounds on golo. because advil targets pain at the source of inflammation. i decided to give golo a try. taking the release supplement i noticed a change within the first week and each month the weight just kept coming off. with golo you can keep the weight off. keith morrison: (voiceover) in mark twitchell s trial, the defense had but one witness, twitchell himself. and right from the start, he admitted in mark twitchell, they had one witness. right from the start, he admitted killing johnny altinger . then, he told the jury a story. he said what he has done is cooked up this idea that you could blend fiction and reality so closely together that the people, everyone would be fooled into thinking what is fiction is actually reality. house of cards and sk confessions said twitchell worded very the building blocks to a entertain the concept of book and film. there was more. more twisted reality. to generate publicity, he said he first needed to create an online urban legend by doing a series of harmless staged attacks identical s to those depicted in this movie and novel. so when his movie comes out and when the novel comes out, people would googled this and find out there s this urban legend that maybe the movie is real. maybe fiction is reality. he called a? multi-angle psychosis/psychosis label entertainment. sitting on the beach and there s a palm tree and a beach in front of you but when you pull back, it s not a beach but a picture of a beach. the attack on geo tetra was just a stunt. he allowed his parade to escape. and johnny altinger? that was week too just like the first one. but johnny didn t get the joke and furious there was no woman to greet him, tap twitchell with a pipe. he s got this knife on his belt and he tells the jury in his testimony that he puts his hand on the handle of the knife and just as johnny is about to come at him, his lifting the pipe over his head and mark twitchell sticks his hands out in front of him and the next thing he sees is the knife in johnny s stomach and blood is on his hands and he collapses on the floor and dies. the only inaccuracy is the initial attacker was johnny altinger and he , mark twitchell, disposed of the body and the sewer. police have their answer as to why twitchell gave up the body. it was the prologue of his elaborate tail. his defense is a brilliant idea on the surface. he actually found a way to describe an entire police investigation that incriminated him to get him off scott free. in ohio, rene was following all of this online. i watched the live blog they had, and i was screaming my head off at home. you liar. were you afraid the jury would believe him? oh, yeah. you are looking at for the one person that has that doubt. take the doubt back to the deliberation room. gilles tetreault was in course dash cart the day it was completed. i got to sit in the second row. she looked back, my mom, and saw me. i didn t know how she would feel. she turned around and looked at me. she smiled. she grabbed my hand. she said i m so happy you are still with us. that meant so much to me. what was that like? i didn t know how she would feel toward me. when she did that, it was almost another closing moment for me. not for others in the courtroom. apparently not for the jury s deliberations dragged on. the time rolled on. people are thinking maybe there is someone out there who actually does believe mark twitchell. mark twitchell was a masterful liar, maybe this ultimate fantasy would beguile the jury. then that final audience trooped back into the courtroom and gave him his last review. they found him guilty of the premeditated first-degree murder of johnny altinger . he was sentenced to life in prison. i have never been involved in an investigation in my whole career. you theorizes someone has died. there is no doubt we don t always get it right. here we knew exactly what happened to johnny. because he told you. he told us. ultimately, johnny lettuce to a . and twitchell kept writing about it. he would ve kept writing dash cart killing. i did mark twitchell murder johnny altinger? was it a thrill killing? or something even darker? i think he wanted to experience the feeling of killing and dismembering a body. i think down the road, he was going to produce a film about it . he would be a producer who would tell his cast and crew and actors how to do it and only to himself he would know he has lived it. i think that is what he wanted to do. an ohio, rene, twitchell s friend, arrived at the same disturbing theory. i think he did it for artistic reasons. artistic reasons? i think he wanted to see how someone died so he could make a better story. film it better. write about a better. in fact, mark twitchell himself offered an answer to all the people who wondered why. he was different, he wrote in his sk confessions. he simply could not feel anyone. and so, intentionally or not, he offered a dismal reason for murdering a perfect stranger. it was a single line at the end of that horror movie of his house of cards when the killer tells his wife the best way to succeed is to write what you know. this is this is someone at a park at 3:00 am. i am andrea kncanning and this is dateline. i can t believe she would meet someone at a park at 3:00 a.m. i think she knew the second she got in his car that something was wrong. a college student disappears. i d liketo