armies of lobbyists and lawyers? or does it work for all the people. now the house of representatives is about to show us the worst of government for the rich and powerful. the house is about to vote on a budget deal, a deal negotiated behind closed doors, that would let traders on wall street gamble with taxpayer money and get bailed out by the government when their risky bets threaten to blow up our financial system. this is a democracy, and the american people didn t elect us to stand up for citigroup. they elected us to stand up for all the people. that s the bugle signaling charge. today the white house scrambled to contain the fod. just minutes before the scheduled vote, the white house took the dangerous move of taking direct aim at the warren wing of the party by declaring and campaign contributions, opening up the ÷÷ñaúfloodgates. first you give the keys to the bank and then you bail the banks out. we are not having that. i think the vote today shows that, shows the unity of the democratic caucus and republicans are going to have to go someplace else if this is the garbage they re going to put on the floor. it s both the quid and the quo, talking about corruption it s got money coming in to the democrats and republicans to pay for loopholes and shenanigans on wall street. senator warren took the floor again today to rally against the carve-outs for the big banks. here she is. a vote for this bill is a vote for future taxpayer bailouts of wall street. when the next bail-out comes, a lot of people will look back to this vote to see who was responsible for putting the government back on the hook to bail out wall street. why in the last minute, as you head out the door, and a spending bill must be passed, are you making it a priority to do wall street s bidding? who do you work for? wall street? or the american people? congresswoman edwards, i want to know what you see. you re the politician of the three of us. is this the future of the democratic party? z?jp go-along party that makes deals with the worst elements in our society and wall street? your thoughts? one thing the last election told us, it told us th!:[rñ amen people need to know we re prepared to get in there and fight for them, fight for their paychecks and their bank accounts. stop fighting for wall street and special interests. frankly, there s no question about it, this bill absolutely stinks. the american people know it. when i came into congress in i would never again vote to bail out big banks. while republicans in this congress take the american people down the bank road again. we will not do it. luke russert, it would take 50 or 60 votes to get this pass. who are your colleagues? what are they saying to you when they re voting for the bill? they would say this is a good bill go ahead, luke, i m sorry. they say it s a good bill because it leaves the democratic imprint on the funding through the rest of the fiscal year on everything with the exception of the department of homeland security. and they ll have the immigration fight in early march and the rest of the government is funded and they re not worried about shutdown politics. that s really their point. this is the best they can get before the super majority comes in next congress. however, what you do, you talk to other democrats who say, you know what, republicans have shown they have an awfully difficult time getting to 218 to fund the government on any priority. we re more than happy to go at it with them and go to the ring a few more times because it makes them look bad. i want to say one thing that i think is important when you talk about the future of the democratic party. when this was negotiated by harry reid, and the other preept reetors on the senator side with the house gop x)kyleadership, t reason why there wasn t a freak-out over the dodd-frank language because this thing passed in the house in october of 2013 with 70 democrats supporting it, including steny hoyer, the difference in campaign finances that was negotiated between reed, mcconnell, and boehner. what you re seeing tonight is the liberal wing standing up to something that was directly negotiated by reid and the white house, and was supported by them before. they re not taking it n)f . also, could there be another factor here? you ve lost both houses of congress now. you re the opposition on the hill. you re not worried about carrying the water on debt ceilings and all the rest and budget deals. you lost the house a while ago. you re losing the senate. is this a revolutionary spirit fueled by the fact, you don t have to run the show, you just have to drive your ideas? i think what s really clear, chris, is the fact is, the american people are expecting us to fight for them. they re depending on us to fight for them. we re prepared to do it. you know, if you look at that deal that was negotiated, i don t know that the white house frankly was clearly in the room on this. and clearly some deals were cut with mitch mcconnell because he s always wanted to raise those political campaign contribution limits. he wants to throw the individual limits out the window. but we can t let them. we can t let wall street walk away with the store, and on the other hand, give them the open keys to the government by allowing all these political contributions. and like i said, if the republicans really want a bipartisan bill over here in the house, they know they can get democratic votes, but they have to get it with a clean funding bill. thanks so much donna edwards and luke russert. coming up, guess who is defiant inzkw;o the face of the torture report? dick cheney. the man who once said we d have to work through the dark side. he s unapologetic about what the cia did. he said he d do it all over again in a minute. big surprise. that s ahead, this is hardball, the place for politics. you don t need to think about the energy that makes our lives possible. because we do. we re exxonmobil and powering the world responsibly is our job. because boiling an egg. isn t as simple as just boiling an egg. life takes energy. energy lives here. chris christie, like many of the potential 2016 presidential candidates isn t talking about the torture report one bit. he refused to answer questions about it. now a new poll finds the people in his home state say they don t think he d make a good president. 53%, a majority of new jersey voters say government christie would not do well in the white house. of course it s a blue state. and even though christie is the strongest republican against hillary in the garden state, new hillary in the garden state, new jersey is still deep blue. a remote that lives on your phone. i think that what needed to be done was done. i think we were perfectly justified in doing it, and i d do it again in a minute. welcome back to hardball. former vice president dick cheney, he mingsed no words in his interview with fox news. describing his preferred approach to terror. here he is. he is in our possession. we know he s the architect. what are we supposed to do? kiss him on both cheeks and say, please, please, tell us what you know. no, of course not. we did what needed to be done to catch those who were guilty on 9/11 and prevent a further attack. we were successful on both parts this report said it was not successful. this report is full of crap. director of harvard s project on public narrative and author of the 1% doctrine. and also former rnc chair michael steele. what do you think is in the makeup of a guy who dismisses all different opinions as crap? cheney will go to his grave denying everything that is very clear at this point. this is the moment they feared, that there would be an official inquest that would prove right everything people were saying. now it s happened and cheney is digging into his final position. he s in a shrinking country, cheneyland, that gets smaller and smaller. and even now you can hear him shooting at president bush as to who knew what. this is cheney s last stand. let me ask you about policy. i m a big believer, as mike dukakis said, the fish rots from the head. an old greek expression. whatever it is, i believe the boss sets the tone. i worked in politics for 15 years. when staffers did something, i knew the boss wanted it done, or they wouldn t be there. that s the operative. and i was one, an operative. you are the boss s guy. so when somebody says somebody at the cia did something, my view is, they were told to do it. what s your view? where did the water boording come from and all that stuff, how did it work its way down to the bowels or the dark place this came directly, chris, from bush and cheney, both of them. at the start, it was ordered by the president and the vice president. the cia didn t just wake up one day and say, hey, we re going to do a lot of extra legal and extraordinary things. it came from the white house. they were ordered to take off the gloves as the white house said right at the beginning. don t worry about what people say when they find out. go to the dark side. they were following orders. now, ultimately, the president and the vice president were briefed intensively about exactly what cia was doing from the beginning and throughout. bush was quite engaged in this as was cheney. they got regular reports, what is the yield of the interrogation, is it successful, is it not? both men are directly driving this. to the extent their cruelty involved, michael, essentially, torture, whatever you want to call it, there s torture, cruelty involved, you re hurting people, causing them pain and fear and all the mix of horrors you get in your mind when you re being tortured, where is it going to end, is it going to end with me ending, all that, did they do that with an attitude of we want to do this, we don t like these people, they are bad people, was it personal? ron? that s to you, ron. you bleeped out. the fact is, they engaged president bush only when things were made personal. cheney and bush viewed this as an affront to them personally, which was kind of the way bush was managed, the tapping of blood lust. this was about managing bush. by cheney, by others. but also doing what they felt need be done. don t worry about the consequences. of course cheney creates the 1% doctrine, that idea that we should do everything. everything essentially we can think of. don t worry about these issues of ends and means. now what we find is of course the worst nightmare, that not only was this morally reprehensible, cashiering america s moral authority, but it was of no value at all, which they were warned about at the beginning. you re sure of that? absolutely. we got nothing out of it? absolutely nothing of value that couldn t be got in a hundred other ways. but they didn t get it in a hundred other ways. let me have michael in here. i want to set this up politically. cheney isn t hiding. no, he s not hiding. cheney has never hidden. i think that s what frustrates a lot of people. he puts it out there and you have to deal with it. he makes it easy for you to unpack it, as he s done again. there s a lot that ron said that, i wasn t in the room, i don t know what s inside these men s hearts and heads. i do know how the process i do not think that the president and the vice president were sitting around over a cup of coffee saying, we re just going to start waterboarding, out of thin air. we know what the cia s business has always been about. this is nothing new. this is nothing transcendent in terms what the cia has done in terms of black ops. what about going into the dark areas of intelligence, we got to go back in there in the quiet, where there s no discussion absolutely. why is cheney saying to do that? why are we laying it out on the table? i want to make the point that came from the top. cheney exhibiting no moral qualms about the acts revealed in the report. let s listen. did the ends justify the means? absolutely. no doubt in your mind? no doubt in my mind, i m totally comfortable with it. doing his job there. cheney previewed the at any cost mentality. yet days after 9/11, let s listen. we also have to work the dark side, if you will, we have to spend time in the shadows, in the intelligence world. a lot of what needs to be done here will have to be done quietly, without any discussion, using sources and methods that are available to our intelligence agencies, if we re going to be successful. that s the world these folks operate in. and so it s going to be vital for us to use any means at our disposal basically to achieve our object. how do you read that? that s the way this works. don t blame it on the cia. it guy looks like he was ready to do it from the top. exactly. that s where the buck ultimately stops. you laid it out very well at the opening of the segment. that at the end of the day, it s going to start at the head. if there are good things that come from it, you re going to the head. that s how cheney saw this. this is all in the context of what happened post 9/11. this is that world that was created. again, we have a history. whether we re trying to go after castro in the kennedy administration they didn t do the job, did they? no, they didn t. or whether you re going after osama bin laden, it s the same type who is still the head of cuba right now? anyway, let s go back to ryan. what is it in cheney s being? what s in his head that makes him curl the lip and talk about torture and stuff like that with such delight and relish? what s that all about? cheney has always believed that tactics matter. he s arguably one of the finest tact itions at the top of government for many years. if cheney believes that his position cannot be challenged, as long as he digs in and doesn t flinch, he ll do that. that s where cheney is sitting at this point. many people are turning on him at this point. john mccain and others are saying, cheney s wrong. but cheney at this point will be the last man standing with this position if that s what it takes. that s what he s thinking about. history s record, i didn t flinch. and i think ron is absolutely right about that. that s the one thing about the man, he s consistent from the very beginning to this moment. and now one has to unpack that. i don t know about love, but in his view, all s fair in war. ron, thank you for being the expert. michael steele, thank you very much. up next, a hardball farewell to michele bachmann. we re going to the riddic lift, this is hardball, the place for politics. and also, where you can hear the debate. place for politics. and also, where you can hear the debate. hardball, the place fo politics. and also, where you can hear the debate. place for politics. and also, where you can hear the debate. hardball, the place fo politics. and also, where you can hear the debate. this is hardball, the for politics. and also, where you can hear the debate. you don t need to think about the energy that makes our lives possible. because we do. we re exxonmobil and powering the world responsibly is our job. because boiling an egg. isn t as simple as just boiling an egg. life takes energy. energy lives here. come from all walks of life. if you have high blood sugar, ask your doctor about farxiga. it s a different kind of medicine that works by removing some sugar from your body. along with diet and exercise, farxiga helps lower blood sugar in adults with type 2 diabetes. with one pill a day, farxiga helps lower your a1c. and, although it s not a weight-loss or blood-pressure drug, farxiga may help you lose weight and may even lower blood pressure when used with certain diabetes medicines. do not take if allergic to farxiga or its ingredients. symptoms of a serious allergic reaction include rash, swelling or difficulty breathing or swallowing. if you have any of these symptoms, stop taking farxiga and seek medical help right away. do not take farxiga if you have severe kidney problems, are on dialysis, or have bladder cancer. tell your doctor right away if you have blood or red color in your urine or pain while you urinate. farxiga can cause serious side effects, including dehydration, genital yeast infections in women and men, low blood sugar,kidney problems, and increased bad cholesterol. common side effects include urinary tract infections, changes in urination, and runny nose. do the walk of life yeah, you do the walk of life need to lower your blood sugar? ask your doctor about farxiga and visit our website to learn how you may be able to get every month free. mccarthyism to rule out anti-american lawmakers in the democratic caucus. how many people in the caucus are anti-american? you already suspect barack obama. is he alone, or are there others? what i would say is that the news media should do a penetrating expose and take a look. i wish they would. i wish the american media would take a great look at the views of the people in congress and find out, are they pro-america, or anti-america. i think people would love to see an expose like that. backman was a vocal opponent of the president, attacking the affordable care act with a fervor. this egregious system that will be ultimately known as death care, must be defeated. it will be very unpleasant if the death panels go into effect. let s repeal this failure before it literally kills women, kills children, kills senior citizens. of course there were no death panels, but congresswoman bachmann rare let the facts get in the way of good fiction. he famously campaigned against vaccinations, making the unfounded claim that the hpv vaccination was unsafe for young women. i will tell you that i had a mother last night come up to me, here in tampa florida, after the debate. she told me that her daughter took that vaccine, that injection, and suffered from mental retardation thereafter. it can have very dangerous side effects. it was rated false after it was denied by the medical community at large. congresswoman bachmann liked to cite the founding fathers, but basic american history alluded her at times. when she claims that our founders were the ones who ended slavery. the very founders that wrote those documents worked tirelessly until slavery was no more in the united states. remember how ben franklin won the civil war? anyway, at a campaign event, she mistakenly credited new hampshire as the site of the first battle of the american revolution. the love of new hampshire and what we have in common is your extreme love for liberty. you re the place where the shot around the world. the battle of lexington and concord as everyone watching knows, was in massachusetts. with that, we say farewell to the queen of the right wing clown car. up next, the director of the cia agency defends the agency in the wake of the report. the roundtable joins us in a minute. you re watching hardball, the place for politics. great job. (mandarin) cut it out. see you tomorrow. you don t need to think about the energy that makes our lives possible. because we do. we re exxonmobil and powering the world responsibly is our job. because boiling an egg. isn t as simple as just boiling an egg. life takes energy. energy lives here. welcome back to hardball. two days after the release of that damning report by democratic senators and the senate intelligence committee, the director of the cia spoke to reporters today. he was asked whether the program put in place by the bush administration, did it work? which included torture, did it produce useful intelligence. here s what brennan said. there s no way, to know whether or not some information that was obtained from an individual who had been subjected at some point during his confinement, could have been obtained through other means. it s just an unknowable fact. so what the agency s point has been consistently and what certainly my view is, after having reviewed the documents, is that there was useful intelligence, very useful, valuable intelligence was obtained from individuals who had been subjected to eits. whether that could be obtained without the use of the eits, is unknowable. michael steele, melinda henden berger and republican strategist hogan gitly. one question, is torture, any kind of torture right or wrong? should we do it? in my opinion? that s what i m asking for, should we do it? is torture really the act, or is it the motivation? we re trying to save the country from disaster and one guy that we know knows the answer to what s coming next, do we torture him? to get you the information you want do you think we should do it? i think you should do it. i m with my catholic church on this. they say it s an intrinsically evil act. so i say no, the ends never justify the means. it s always wrong. and i don t care if it gets you absolutely everything you want, the keys to the kingdom, which it does not. [ all speak at once ] our president says the same thing, this is not who we are as a country and i agree with that. so you wouldn t do it? 24 hours, explosion coming, you re not going to do it. your thoughts? are you with her? i ve got my intrinsically catholic view as well, but i side with hogan. i think the policy and personal implications beyond that one individual are too great. i think if you re in executive leadership in particular, you have to weigh it in totality. and yes, sometimes that requires you to do it. this is the justification in the church for things like just war. so you cannot say that, oh, if i torture that that s morally wrong, but if, you know, i bomb an entire village of innocent individuals that somehow that justifies the means that you re trying to achieve with the war. so what that requires is the moral leadership lays out the parameters and the political leadership has to wade itself through that, keeping its eye on those things that cross the lines, and you saw with the cia director, he was not he was not getting into the policy. that s not his job. his job is to do the implementation of that policy and those leaders that we entrust with the he was talking out of both sides of his mouth. have anything to do with what is done when the time comes? because when the time comines, president, a dick cheney, a barack obama, a george bush, whoever they are, has to make a decision how to save the country. they have to make a decision on the spot. we got this guy in custody. we know he knows. what do we do? mr. president, he s our only source of information right now. and you have to decide then whether to throw the rule book out. but how can it be a message to the world that we re no better than the terrorists we are fighting? and we are not isis. we don t do that. that s not who we are. [ all speak at once ] i don t think it s practical. are you against capital punishment? i am. see, these are values. i can appreciate that. i think capital punishment didn t work to deter crime in the same way torture doesn t work to i think there s a false argument here. i think it s too neat. it s convenient to believe it s actually not neat. it s so satisfying on an emotional level to say, let s do what it takes. but where s the proof that we got anything out of it? but see, you re trying to prove something that is not going to be fully disclosed in the course of any period of time. you re not able to say, we were able to do x, y, and z because we tortured this individual. it s just a false argument. he said it worked. but he leaves the caveat, we could have got it from somewhere else. but that was the view today. republicans wanted to hear brennan say, we got the information that got bin laden. they did, right? the democrats wanted to hear, we weren t sure if that really came from here, we just got the information. they heard that too. he said both things. so both sides are able to glom on to the points they want to use and use that politically, however they choose. it s not knowable to know if we could have gotten the same information, means it wasn t even a last resort. i mean, that to me, suggests that they didn t even try very hard otherwise to get that information. bases loaded, bottom of the ninth, guy hits a home run. you could say, somebody else could have done that. it s true. the pitcher could have hit a home run. the shortstop, the least likely. but you don t know. anyway, yesterday colorado senator mark udall gave a fiery speech on the floor of the senate, calling for president obama to purge from his administration people who were part of the cia s interrogation program, people like the director himself, john brennan. this is tough stuff for a guy on his way out. but here he is. torture just didn t happen afterall, contrary to the president s recent statement, we didn t torture some folks. real actual people engaged in torture. some of these people are still employed by the cia and the u.s. government. they are right now people serving in high level positions at the agency who approved directed or committed acts related to the cia s detention and interrogation program. it s bad enough not to prosecute these officials. but to reward or promote them, and risk the integrity of the u.s. government, to protect them, is incomprehensible. the best thing about our country, we talk about this in the open. i always talk about, when we were growing up, we had the space program. we said there s a guy on the board. before the ship took off, the russians, you never knew if the ship came down, blew up in the air, poor monkey, or not even that. we were honest and we think of ourselves as the good guys. we think of ourselves, but it s ten years later we re talking about this. we re talking about it and a lot of other countries never do. so what could will come of this hand-wrippinging, which i think is morally important? will it shorten the leash on future cias or not? i do know, when you re talking about this program, that the senate democrats, senate republicans knew about this. this wasn t new to them. they understood this. for them now to be outraged is a little disingenuous. now that we know about it, the program s over. it s been ended. what are the 2016 candidates going to say about it? because now it s in the forefront again? what torture will do is stop people from coming on the show and looking at the camera instead of looking at me. did you learn that at the virginia leadership school? i was in news before. okay, go ahead. well, the republicans are mostly, as i understand it, expressing outrage that it s out in the open now, even though the terrorists have been recruiting on this stuff for years. so i don t think cheney s making the case for it. how will this find its way into party platforms? will the democrats say we re against it? will republicans say, we re for torture? they re not going to say they re pro-torture. do you think cheney will actually say no, no. he is something. isn t he something? i think if anybody thumps their nose at this guy, i ve been through this, you take on cheney, and he wants to dismember you. anyway, the roundtable is staying with us. when we come back, the war on insurgen insurgency. this is hot for the democrats elizabeth warren leading the charge for the future of the democrat party. she wants them to be a populist party that keeps a tough rein on wall street. this is hardball, the place for politics. [ sirens wailing ] inside of you. even if you re treating your crohn s disease or ulcerative colitis, an occasional flare may be a sign of damaging inflammation. learn more about the role damaging inflammation may be playing in your symptoms with the expert advice tool at crohnsandcolitis.com. and then speak with your gastroenterologist. then boom. what happened? stress, fun, bad habits kids, now what? let s build a new, smarter bed using the dualair chambers to sense your movement, heartbeat, breathing. introducing the sleep number bed with sleepiq™ technology. it tracks your sleep and tells you how to adjust for a good, better and an awesome night. the difference? try adjusting up or down. you ll know cuz sleep iq™ tells you. give the gift of amazing sleep, only at a sleep number store. find our best buy rated c2 queen mattress with sleepiq. know better sleep with sleep number. rick perry, the governor of texas is talking about another presidential run. he s looking to put the mistakes of the past campaign behind him. here s what he told kasie hunt about what matters in a presidential candidate. running for the presidency is not an iq test. it is a test of an individual s resolve. it s a test of an individual s philosophy. it s a test of an individual s life experiences. and i think americans are really ready for a leader that will give them a great hope about the future. said he probably has less margin for error after his oops moment in the debate in 2011 when he couldn t remember one of the three federal agencies he wanted to close down if he got elected. we ll be right back. we re back. the democratings between the white house and senator elizabeth warren. back with the round table right now, michael, melinda and hogan. i think this is one of those big nights in politics. i think the fact that senator warren, in a manner somewhat leek ted cruz saying cause of trouble. doe dee don t go along anymore. well, nobody wants to see a government shutdown. but, i don t think ted c rrruz wasn t afraid of one. but nobody wants to see a check on wall street and roll backs, either. it isn t just liberals on the hill. i don t think you see people say boy, i wish we d get off the backs of wall street and carried interest. i think that s where the public is. there s a lot of that kind of populous feeling among ordinary republicans, monot the ones on e hill. well, one of the charges on the right, if the dem kraic party doesn t get populous, they re going to get snaked by the republicans. they ll come from the libertarian right saying you guys will be in bed too long. i think that s accurate. what s interesting to me is if you get this bill to the house rngs you re going to have some weird relationship between elizabeth warren and ted cruz. they re going to be against the bill. it could both sink in the senate for just about every issue. but they re against the same bill. i don t know that it gets out of the senate. we could be here through christmas. we could be here through christmas. i still cannot find this more odd than to hear, you know, elizabeth warren coming off as the joan of arc of the left to go and fight wall street. and let me finish my thought. and poor ted cruz who was making the same principle charge as somehow methuzala. he was called the political terrorist. political terrorist. let s discriminate here between somebody whoa s trying to make sure wall street doesn t get another biet ote out of the apple that shouldn t have. but she needs to go reconcile that attitude and that approach with the rest of her party who s taken checks from wall street for e for the last seven years. so don t give me this holier than thou in wall e wall street. you have just said something here. the democrats money comes from new york and it comes from where ever people from new york go during the rest of the year and san francisco and l.a. it s a coastal party. now, they re attacking big money. this is fascinating. both parties on the hill are in the pocket of wall streetment and i think that anyone who took them on could get a lot of support among average mrp e mother-in-laws. that s why people don t that s why congress is held in such low remarks. skbh thank you. i think it s good for the country. we could stay on a few more days. thaipg. thank you very much. and thank you, michael stooel and hogan. when we return, let me finish with the revolution in a democratic party we re witnessing tonight. you re watching hard e hardball, the place for politics. no. it s called grid iq. the 4:51 is leaving at 4:51. they cut the power. it ll fix itself. power s back on. quick thinking traffic lights and self correcting power grids make the world predictable. thrillingly predictable. twhat do i do?. you need to catch the 4:10 huh? the equipment tracking system will get you to the loading dock. there should be a truck leaving now. i got it. now jump off the bridge. what? in 3.2.1. are you kidding me? go. right on time. right now, over 20,000 trains are running reliably. we call that predictable. thrillingly predictable. composition of the senate from 55-45 democratic to 55-45 republican. it enlarged the republican lead to the point that it would be very hard for the democrats to win back control in 2016 even with a strong standard running for president. the other thing to say is that say e they seem stuck in place. they look to be simply holding on, sticking to the usual positions and phrases hoping for salvation by adherence to their most basic con stitch whenty e sills. both of these factors, the fact of defeet and studded thinking meets makes tonts s wide open assault on this big spending bill and its little give away to wall street all the more important. remember this date, december 11 thd, 2014, it may be the birthday for a democratic party that s ri gained its reason to be.
wall, paul. and the threats. he s been terrific. now if he ever goes against me, i won t say that, okay? when all in starts right now. good evening from new york. i m chris hayes. in 37 days donald trump will become president of these united states. we have breaking news tonight. two senior intelligence officials tell nbc news that russian president vladimir putin was involved in efforts to disrupt the u.s. presidential election. that conclusion is based on intelligence from diplomatic sources and others including spies working for america s allies. that comes on top of growing consensus in the intelligence community in the u.s. that russia was behind multiple large scale attacks on democratic institutions and operatives producing fodder for countless embarrassing and politically damaging stories at the height of the presidential election. the in the just had amazing reporting on the alleged scope of the russia cyber attacks which targeted the democratic national committee chairman podesta and also a dozen house candidates. regardless of whether russia meant to help elect trump is still among dispute among different agency, his government succeeded in influencing the outcome of the u.s. election. president obama has ordered a fuel review of the role in the election. there s now bipartisan support in the senate for some type of investigation. joining me national security reporter ken delany. and i guess my first response to this story was how could they possibly know this? so it seems, you know, explosive to say that putin was personally supervising this, but this is two intelligence officials off the record. there s some sort of grain of salt i always attach t anything, you know, anonymous from the intelligence community. how could they possibly know this? that s certainly a fair question, chris. thanks for having me, by the way. the short answer is we don t exactly know. but we know or were told that they are reviewing this information with high confidence. and we re told it s coming from liaisons, from other intelligence sources, people presumably with access to putin or the russian regime. that s all we know. so part of the story here is there s a forensic story about who did this and then there s a kind of whole chain, right, who did it, what was their connection to the russian state, how much were they how closely were they directed, there were some beginning theories that maybe this was just a rogue element or a bunch of people that got out over their skis and before you know it they re inside the dnc. this is all sort of a settling this chain is the work that the intelligence apparatus is doing right now. exactly. and we re sort of looking through an opaque glass trying to figure out through bits and pieces of reporting what exactly they know. and what you describe as the forensic case, which a private firm initially made is that, hey, the malware and the hacks that we re seeing into the democratic national committee can be traced back to these russian entities. that doesn t tell us anything about who was in the russian fairly general, but we re told that he was involved in directing how to use the leaked material, which is fairly specific. that is fascinating. ken dilanian. i m joined by ed mcmullen, a former cia operations officer. there s a crazy subtext that s happening here in terms of the intelligence agencies and the cia. donald trump s people seem to think that he s anti-donald trump and they have it out for him. what do you say to their people who say that? well, obviously, there s a natural conflict there. people at the cia understand what a threat vladimir putin are to global security and to the united states, to our security, to the integrity of our democratic system. and so they re opposed to what donald trump is trying to impose upon our country, which is a relationship with the very country that is undermining our democracy. i have to say with regard to whether putin would have directed this or not, of course he knew about it and of course it s a big, big deal in the kremlin and they re celebrating right now. are you part of the problem, right, is ascertaining the confidence that all these links in the chain are there, right? and again, this is you re shaking your head. you just think it s so obvious. it s just so look, i understand i come from this world so i understand how these things work and those of us in the intelligence community just know these things because we ve seen them play out in other situations. we know that russia does this in europe all the time. this is not a new strategy or a new playbook. this is what russia does to undermine democracies in europe. now they re doing it in the united states. it s the russian-backed trolls, it s the hacks, it s the support for the white nationalist, white supremacist movement. it s finding a country in a democratic country like ours that is sympathetic to the russian or the putin way of his authoritarianism and his white nationalism and all of this and promoting them through these other means. i mean, it s mr. playbook. and they did it here in the united states, it s clear. if this is the case, if this is what happened, what does this mean? it means that it means that, you know, our fragile democracy and it is fragile and we need to fight hard to keep it. our founders knew that would be the case. i think we re a little asleep at the wheel these days or have been as americans. it means that we as americans need to stand up and demand that our elected leaders in congress, and we must do the same, hold our system accountable, our elected representatives accountable and oppose donald trump s planned alignment with russia. there s a reason why we have opposed russia on the global stage. it s not arbitrary. russia is an adversary, the liberty, freedom and basic rights across the globe and here in the united states. and we have stood up to them with our partners, with our allies, our free allies in europe and it s important that we continue to do that for the cause of liberty here and abroad. do you think that the president of the united states should say something on the record about all this? well, he has said some things and i think certainly at a time when he judges it to be the right time, he should. we need leadership in the country especially on this issue. i imagine that he s dealing with a lot of very sensitive considerations, very classified considerations that it s hard for you and i sitting here to make a judgment about what he should say or shouldn t say. certainly, we need leadership. certainly the american people need information. i ll say that i think our electors they deserve to be briefed on what they can be briefed on with regard to what russian has done in the election and in related ways since then. so they need all the information they can get so that they can perform their constitutional duties. let me ask you this. you know, there s a statement, this sort of extraordinary statement. i don t think i ve ever seen anything like it in the time i ve been coveri politics. after the reporting had broken that basically late friday night that the cia had come to this conclusion that this was done and not just done to kind of create mischief but explicitly for this electoral outcome to beat hillary clinton and the president-elect put out a statement that says these are the people that got iraq wrong and i had this you re grimacing even at that statement. i mea you work for the cia. what is that relationship like now? the president-elect has called war on them, called them out. what is that going to be like? it s going to be a very troubled relationship. but the american people end up being the losers. i m not sure if donald trump had the information that the cia would give him or wants to give him, if that would make him make wise decisions. i m not sure it would. so i don t know. maybe it s a wash. but look, i ll tell you, americans need to understand this. the cia gives advice to senior policymakers. the president, of course, included chief among them. and does a variety of assessments every day all day long. hundreds of them. that s the reality. and they deal in an uncertain world, the world we live in. and that s why we have them. we have them to connect the dots. sometimes they re not right. most of the time they are. because they re very they re very conscientious and conservative in the assessments they make most of the time. now, people talk about mistakes that are made and times they were wrong, those are the times when things become well known, but assessments that they make every day tend to be correct. for a president to say i don t want any of that, is just reckless and just plain stupid. evan mcmullin. much more ahead on this and other stuff. knew today we also got big news from the man who will be running the security apparatus. retired general michael flynn generosity is its own form of power. get your mind out of the gutter. mornings are for coffee and contemplation. that was a really profound observation. you got a mean case of the detox blues. don t start a war you know you re going to lose. finally you can now find all of netflix in the same place as all your other entertainment. on xfinity x1. who donald trump has named as his national security adviser. that s not a position that requires senate confirmation unless trump rescinds the offer flynn will be his national security whisperer in the white house. today s news puts what flynn said on the campai trail and in the republican national convention in a different light. when he called on hillary clinton to drop out of the race because she, quote, put our nation s security at extremely high risk. lock her up. lock her up. [ crowd chanting lock her up. ] you guys are good. damn right. exactly right. there s nothing wrong with that. [ crowd chanting lock her up ] and you know why? you know why we re saying that? we re saying that because if i, a guy who knows this business, if i did a tenth, a tenth of what she did, i would be in jail today. this was, of course, the trump campaign s main attack on clinton, particularly in the campaign s final days, this idea that she belonged in jail because she used private e-mail servers as secretary of state potentially compromising classified information and putting national security at risk. didn t matter. the fbi investigated the matter, concluded no charges should be filed. trump threatened to jail her if elected. and those lock her up chants became a staple of the politics. the washington post reporting that michael flynn who again helped lead those locker up chants was the subject of a secret u.s. military information in 2010 that determined that flynn inappropriately shared classified information with foreign military officers in afghanistan. flynn was not disciplined because investigators concluded he didn t act knowingly and ultimately didn t damage national security. but of course, the fbi came to a not dissimilar determination about hillary clinton. and flynn, knowing what he knew, still called for her to be thrown in jail. we reached out today to the house oversight and government reform chair jason chaffetz to see if he would investigate flynn for risking classified information as vigorously as he did clinton. we did not hear back. this is not the first red flag for flynn that has stated his views. he tweeted about clinton s involvement in sex crimes involving children. jeanne shaheen and richard blumenthal have requested an official review of flynn s security clearance citing today s report in a separate incident in which he disclosed information to pakistan and that he, and i m quoting, had technicians secretly install an internet connection in his pentagon office even though it was forbidden. he s become the main funnel for security information to a president who you ll recall has been skipping his intelligence briefings because, as trump said, i m like a smart person. joining me now, michael steele, former chair of the republan national committee. the lock her up thing, i mean, it s amazing the parallels, right? yeah. so hillary clinton does this thing that violates protocol. she s investigating. the finding is, yeah, she violated protocol but she didn t knowingly compromise national security, she s okay. but the argument was that she knowingly violated that protocol right. and general flynn did the same thing. no. they said he did not know he had violated this protocol. and that s the difference. you think it s perfectly fine that the one-tenth rule here that he leads lock her up chants at the rnc for a woman who has been cleared by the fbi. right. who says even after being cleared by the fbi the political opponent should be put in prison despite the fact that he did this and he also had a secret internet connection installed in his pentagon office. yeah, well, look, i can t speak to all of that in terms of what he did while he was in the office, but i can speak to the politics of being at a national convention and getting in that fired-up space and using that chant. we all know that that chant was not one of the best chants out there because it doesn t speak to who we are as americans. we don t lock people up as political prisoners, per se. well, who knows, right? and we re not. and we re not. come on, stop it. but michael, let me ask you this, if you had to bet after election day that you would still hear lock her up after trump had won, at a rally in wisconsin, doesn t that surprise you? no, it doesn t. no, it doesn t. because the carryover from this election goes beyond what we ve seen in the past. the voters in this election cycle have been more fervent than we ve seen in a generation in terms of their passion to make their decision stick. and they feel and to imprison their political enemies. no, i don t think they re talking literally at this point. donald trump himself has said that s not going to happen. he s not going to do that. so i think that that is sort of rehashing some of that passion and that fervor and that spirit. now, you know, again, we re still waiting. i think a lot of people are. to see how donald trump does message that transition that he s talked about wanting to do with the american people on these subjects. and whether or not he does that at the inauguration, whether he does that between now and then or immediately afterwards remains to be seen, but that s going to be up to him whether or not that chant has any more legs beyond this moment. let me ask you about leon panetta because flynn s got obviously the guy who seems to have trump s ear on intelligence. trump saying he s not taking these intelligence briefings, he s a smart guy, doesn t want to hear the same thing every day. this is what leon panetta said. if the intelligence official had indications or information regarding that attack and the president did not want to listen to that, for whatever reason, the responsibility for that would go on the president. i think that s fair. i think donald trump needs to revisit that line of thinking. no one is questioning your smarts here, sir. no one is questioning your ability to digest the information. yes, you know what, being president is boring as hell because you got to sit down and do the hard work. i mean, it s hard. no one appreciates that unless you ve been in that space and understand what those individuals go through. those briefings are there for a reason. and i would really hope that the president-elect would take to heart the sincerity and the importance of doing that because stuff happens. minutia happens. little things happen in the spate of hours while you rest that make a difference on the decisions you make the next day. and it s important that you understand what that minutia is so that you can make the right decisions. it s funny you say this. it s almost like you re saying details matter which is something one of the presidential candidates said. michael steele. you got it, buddy. aleppo, syria, has become synonymous with war-torn misery particularly over the last several months. it was once a bustling metropolis. so much so that a travel piece in the new york times we discovered old homes transformed into small hotels or restaurants with the cuisine some of the most memorable i ve tasted in the middle east. these are images of syria s largest city with its open air markets and bustling town squares and ancient landmarks, a mix of east and west, people lived together in relative peace though under the thumb of the assad regime. one of the oldest continuously inhabited cities in the world. this is what aleppo looks like today. described by france s u.n. ambassadors a, quote, the worst humanitarian trgedy of the 21st century. those loyal to assad and militias have all but crushed anti-government rebels. the u.n. human rights office has cited accounts of women and children being burned alive and families choosing suicide over surrender. we should note independent var fick kags of these accounts is impossible at this moment. rebel fighters were due to leave aleppo as part of a cease-fire agreement. however air strikes continued trapping tens of thousands of civilians. late this afternoon several news outlets began reporting the cease-fire agreement was back on. u.s. ambassador to the united nations samantha power addressed the crisis in aleppo yesterday. to the assad regime, russia and iran, your forces and proxies are carrying out these crimes. your barrel bombs and mortars anair strikes have allowed the militia in aleppo to encircle tens of thousands of civilians in your ever-tightening noose. it is your noose. three member states of the u.n. contributing to a noose around civilians. are you truly incapable of shame? is there literally nothing that can shame you? joining me now correspondent for nbc news. everything that i ve seen out of aleppo is just horrifying in the extreme. you have civilians. it s been under siege for a long time. they re now trapped. there s fear there will be retributions that rape will be used as a tool of war they will be burned slaughtered and killed. is there anything that can be done in the microsense to ensure the safety of those individuals there? wow, that s a million dollar question. i think samantha power and others would probably be better suited to answer that question from a diplomatic perspective. anything short of an international intervention on humanitarian grounds whether it be from neighboring countries or the united nations if they can come to some kind of consensus, i don t see anything slowing down the syrian government or its russian allies or its proxy fighters through the iranians and others. they ve made very clear they re going to continue with this assault until they have, in their eyes, liberated the city from what they describe as terrorists. obviously the opposition groups and the rebel groups are saying this is going to amount to a genocide because the reports that are coming out of there based on these activists account is what you describe, nothing short of massacres, nothing short of, you know, what they re saying is genocide. and i have to say that the reporters that i trust in that part of the world who i don t think are propagandists who are closest and approximate to what s happening there, does really seem to be horrendous. they don t just put it out there very quickly. they try to verify it. i ve been in touch with a lot of people at amnesty international who through their own work on the ground are trying to verify these accounts, speaking to people, a lot are making their way out to turkey. they re getting first person accounts of what is happening and what they re seeing. the assad regime reuniting the kind of spine of the most populated cities in syria. and the war really turned around when russian intervention became more muscular. i think that s a fair thing to say. you can actually make the argument that the war turned around when the united states didn t follow its red line policy. when the united states had drawn the red line and there was that chemical attack by the syrian government on some of the rebel positions, at that point the russians, backed by hezbollah fighters on the ground, the iranians sending their cash and other resource, it changed overnight, you could see that unfolding on the ground. people are addressing them to putin, to russia. they see themselves as much under siege by russia in fact, it was russia announcing today their ambassador to the u.n. was saying that essentially we have taken back aleppo. and we ll be ceasing military operations. this war was won and lost in the air. there s only one major superpower in the air and that s the russian air force. the americans and all the other countries that fought were bombing isis held territories to the east. the russians and the syrian air force barrel bombed and attacked rebel held areas. and the russian complicity in what has been described as war crimes and massacres, huge amounts of civilian deaths, young kids are being covered in dust inned or to be presented as victims of bombings. they ve been waging this propaganda campaign that everything you see is the propaganda of anti-assad forces. if you monitor syrian state television, which i do. you ll see that they re presenting a different picture. they re showing as the syrian army moves in, they re greeted by the local as liberators. thank you, you saved us from this terror. there s no doubt that propaganda is an element of this war, but what you re seeing, even the images put out by the russian various news agencies that are working, the syrian military footage, it shows complete destruction of the eastern part of the aleppo. it is something apocalyptic. annihilation. look at that. why does russia care so much? i think for two reasons. one, they have the naval base. but i don t think that s enough for them to get involved. i think this is geopolitics, this is russia saying to the americans you cannot just run shot in the middle east. we had a country that was a very close ally to us. that is our proxy. we ll intervene and fight in there. russia has an interest in keeping the presidency of assad, particularly iran, because they want that conduit to get through hezbollah for creating that regional umbrella between them and israel if they were ever to have a confederation of military activities. that s one of the reasons why iran is invested in preserving the regime of assad. and russia wants to protect him as well. a lot of terrified, desperate, hungry, embattled people in aleppo at this moment. let me remind all of you the senate intelligence committee on which i and the chairman of the committee sit are conducting a complete review of this matter. i m joined by dick durban, democrat from illinois. let me start by asking what you want to see done. what are you calling for in response to what we now know appear to be rusan government-backed hackers interfering in the election? . let s not minimize the gravity of this charge. that a foreign government tried to influence the election in the united states of america is serious business. if we discovered that some foreign country had spent million of doors secretly in the campaign, yeed be outraged. turns out what the russians are accused of doing is even worse. trying to disclose information from e-mails and other sources and influencing the outcome of the campaign. what we need is a bipartisan select committee that takes this charge as seriously as it should. bipartisan select committee, your colleague ben cardin called for something modeled on the 9/11 committee. there s been resistance from republican colleagues who want to just go through the regular intelligence committee in the senate or the house. why is a regular committee investigation of this not sufficient? i can just tell you that that doesn t reach the level of seriousness, and i think the dedication of our government to getting to the bottom of this is critically important. let s put aside who won the election, how they won the election. let s understand what happened here. we have credible information from our top intelligence agencies that the government of russia tried to influence the outcome of the united states election. that is a serious charge. and it shouldn t be routine business in the intelligence committees of the senate and the house. do you think the intelligence committees have come to a consensus conclusion on the motivation as of now? it seems like the cia believes it was actively trying to help donald trump become elected. there s some dissension on whether that was the motivation. what is your belief? i don t know anything more than reported in the papers, and that s the reason why we need this serious inquiry. i had eight other senators join me in a letter to mr. clapper the other day asking to disclose as much as possible unclassified information before january 20th, calling on the attorney general to initiate an investigation into the department of justice as well with professional longtime employees at the department of justice. i think it s reached that level of seriousness, and i hope that the new president as well as the new leaders in congress, both republicans, will take it as seriously themselves. what is the president-elect s responsibility on this issue in your mind? you have to understand our relationship with russia. it s a mixed relationship. when it came to the iran nuclear agreement, russia played a positive role. when it comes to what they re doing in ukraine, we are resisting them and imposing sanctions. so this is a country and a leader that we have to watch very carefully. and the fact that they would try to interject themselves into an election where mr. trump during the course of the election was saying positive things about mr. putin is worrisome to everyone, at least it should be. let s get to the bottom of it. this kind of cyber warfare in the political realm is unacceptable in a democracy and the united states has to get to the bottom of it. based on the reporting that you ve read and there s that long new york times piece which is quite revealing, do you think that the current president, president obama did enough to sort of sound the alarms about this while it was happening during the election? well, you have to take care. with the exception of jim comey s statement 11 days before the election, you really tried to take care of the last month of the election not to tip the balance one way or the other. that isn t fair to the candidates who were involved in the race here. i m sure what president obama felt is they get to the bottom of this, they bring the information together and a serious information would follow. so i don t know all the moves made by this administration, but i can understand why they didn t want to try to tip the scales on this presidential race. do you think the alleged russian interference which is the consensus view that it was russia of the various intelligence agencies, there seems to be pretty good evidence of that, do you think that tips the scales, that would be decisive in the outcome of this election? i can t honestly answer that. no one can. but apparently they were selective in the e-mails they hacked into and disclosed to the public trying to put out as much bad information as they could about hillary clinton and her campaign. they knew who they wanted to elect and it wasn t hillary clinton. so there was an effort under way. how much did it influence in an election decided by 80,000 voters in three stat, who can tell out of the millions of votes cast? senator dick durbin of illinois, thank you for joining me and appreciate it. thank you. donald trump puts paul ryan on notice. the threat to the speaker in his home state. a sugar shield to protect teeth from sugar found in everyday foods. crest complete. shield your teeth from sugar. so sugar may visit, but it s not sticking around my hygienist told me to try. .a mouthwash. so i tried crest. it does so much more than give me fresh breath. crest pro-health mouthwash provides all of these benefits to help you get better dental check-ups. go pro with. .crest pro-health mouthwash. checkup? nailed it. why pause a spontaneous moment? cialis for daily use treats ed and the urinary symptoms of bph. tell your doctor about your medicines, and ask if your heart is healthy enough for sex. do not take cialis if you take nitrates for chest pain, or adempas® for pulmonary hypertension, as this may cause an unsafe drop in blood pressure. do not drink alcohol in excess. to avoid long-term injury, get medical help right away for an erection lasting more than four hours. if you have a sudden decrease or loss of hearing or vision, or an allergic reaction, stop taking cialis and get medical help right away. ask your doctor about cialis. last night house speaker paul ryan was met with boos when he took the stage, a rally with donald trump in front of christmas trees. when trump himself got on stage a few minutes later and mentioned ryan, the crowd booed again. trump tried to stop it mostly. speaker paul ryan, i ve really come to a oh, no, i ve come to appreciate him. speaker paul ryan. where is the speaker? where is he? he has been i ll tell you, he s been terrific. and you know, honestly? he s like a fine wine. every day goes by, i get to appreciate his genius more and more. now, if he ever goes against me, i m not going to say that, okay? he s a great guy. and we have some amazing things in store. and we re going to work on taxes, we re going to work on obamacare. we re going to work on things, and he s going to lead the way. so thank you. we re going to work on the wall, paul. joining me now, former campaign manager for mitt romney and an msnbc contributor. that was kind of an amazing moment. it felt like a ritual humiliation. donald trump, let s just be clear who is calling the shots here. yeah, it did sort of feel like that. but make no mistake, paul ryan is very, very popular in wisconsin. he might not be particularly popular with the people that show up for a big trump rally, but he wins overwhelmingly in his district and has very high approval ratings in the state of wisconsin. just a strange dynamic that goes on there with the people that attend a trump rally. but he doesn t i totally agree with you, this is a self-selecting crowd. but the broader question is what is the political calculus for republicans if and when they go against donald trump? and this applies to a million different things. whether donald trump does something that flagrantly violates the constitution or just does something that they don t like from a policy perspective, what political price will they pay? it s a very, very high price to pay because trump and his hard core supporters tend to bring a gun to a knife fight. and a lot of politicians aren t really prepared for that kind of battle. so they re going to look at this very, very carefully. they re not going to just casually walk into a big battle with donald trump. and it can be a little bit hard to predict what the battles that he decides to wage. so there s going to be a lot of walking on egg shells come 2017. i think that s well said. interesting he said we re working on obamacare. clearly mitch mcconnell is champing at the bit for that as well as paul ryan, some sort of obamacare repeal. cut taxes, which i think mcconnell and ryan are excited about as well. then the wall, paul, we re going to work on the wall. that s where it s going to be very interesting to see how these different things get ordered and what moves through that congress first and how much it s paul ryan and how much it s donald trump. and also and what does that mean? because even donald trump in some of his officials have walked back a little bit from their comments during the campaign about a wall. there s been talk about well, maybe it s not a physical wall. maybe it s a virtual wall. what we ve seen is that there are a lot of issues where donald trump feels very comfortable kind of walking back from the really heated rhetoric of the campaign and saying, well, that s not exactly what i meant. you take me too literally. we ll see if what he ultimately proposes is a giant physical structure between the u.s. and mexico. can you imagine a scenario in which there is actually an out in the open fight? i mean, i m really curious about how long this sort of we re all on the same team is going to last, for two reasons. one is i think there are different policy preferences. different political objectives. i wonder at what point the normal rules of political gravity start to apply. donald trump is the least popular president-elect in the history of recent polling. he s defied it for the entirety of the campaign. maybe he ll continue to do that forever. maybe. i don t know. no one knows. but you wonder whether marginal house members start to worry if that continues. and the challenge that he s going to face come january is that he s used to being a ceo that just calls the shots. and he did that during the campaign. he was able to trust his gut during the campaign. but that s not how our government is set up. our government is set up to have a system of checks and balances. he s going to have to win the approval from a majority in the house and the senate. and, you know, it s not always going to be easy saing as you mention on all of these issues. the first time like you said, gun to a knife fight. the first time he doesn t get his way he ll be on twitter calling whoever blocked him out publicly and that s when, you know, that s when we ll see how this all shakes out. well, and as i know somebody that opposed trump in the primaries, his supporters can be very vitriolic and very threatening. there will be stories about that as they rise to his defense. katie packer, thanks. thanks. the agency that stood up to the trump administration and won. more on that ahead. plus inauguration planning reaches new levels of desperation. it s tonight s thing 1, thing 2. consideration this year. also, many school bands in the surrounding counties opted not to apply to participate in trump s inauguration. local universities also did not apply. and it s not just local bands. the trump inaugural committee is also reportedly having trouble finding a-list celebrities to perform at any of the inaugural events. as of today there s only one entertainer who is definitely booked to perform. that s singer jackie evancho who rose to popularity on tv. i have recently been asked by the president-elect to perform the national anthem for the swearing-in ceremony at the inauguration. and i m so excited. it s going to be awesome. incredibly exciting. that is so far jackie evancho, the only performer who is definitely playing a trump inauguration gig. with just 37 days until the inauguration to go, the committee in charge of finding more performers is reportedly getting pretty desperate. thing 2, according to the rap, president-elect donald trump s team is struggle so hard to book a-list performers, it offered ambassadorships to at least two talent bookers if they could deliver marquee names. the first insider said he was shocked at the proposal, never in a million years have i heard something so crazy, he said. that was the moment i almost dropped the phone. the second insider said he was offered a government post including an ambassadorship if he could wrangle an artist. trump s team deny the report. there is no truth to this insinuation, committee spokesman boris epstein. first class entertainers are eager to participate in the events. inauguration will be an exciting uniting celebration of democracy. also keep an eye on those ambassador announcements. the trump transition team virtually knocking on doors at the department of energy to find out who in the civil service did something they re duty-bound to do as part of their jobs, go to meetings and work on it as part of the obama administration. then something amazing happened. the bureaucrats at the department of energy said no. on the question of providing names, energy officials resolutely rejected the request while reassuring workers. and here s the most amazing thing. it looks like they won for now. the trump transition team saying in a statement, the questionnaire was not authorized or part of our standard protocol. the person who sent it has been properly counseled. this is stunning considering the only other real backtrack from the trump transition team was firing general michael flynn s son, michael g. flynn, for tweeting fake news about pizzagate on the day a man with a gun showed up to the pizzeria in question. now the transition team has backed off demanding names of energy department employees involved in climate change work. climate science is already so threatened by the incoming administration that scientists are literally copying u.s. climate data fearing it might vanish under president trump. one of those trying to protect vital data is ben houlton, director of the john muir institute. i saw this story today and it struck me. first, what exactly are you doing? it s a great question. i don t think there s any way the sugarcoat it that the climate science community is hurt and feeling rejected by the president-elect trump s moves. it s almost as if trump is cooking up this amazing thanksgiving meal and we re over at the kid table. we want to be at the adult table. why do we want to be there? we want to be there to share the good news that climate change is a job creator. responding with climate solutions gives rise to all sorts of economic opportunities for people in this country. we don t want to miss out on that. as a community we re coming together to develop new cooperative ways to get that message out to the public, to make sure that they understand that this is about them, this is about their future, and it s about the here and now. okay. i get the positive message here. but what you re doing, i understand, is copying data that you re afraid that an incoming administration would either manipulate or delete? i can t speak to that general issue since i myself am not involved in copying those data, but i am trying to make sure that we protect climate science in every way possible. being in california, we have this tremendous opportunity to work with our local government here, with governor brown and the university of california system we re seeing this ground level upswell of climate scientists coming together and basically recognizing that we need to be empowered. and this is a call to arms. this is a call to action for us to develop new ways to make sure that we re protecting climate research for people on the planet. that s what we care most about. how important is the federal government and people in the civil service to the things that we know about the climate? i mean, how much of that is coming from a federal government that will now be run by someone who has said that it s all a chinese hoax? it s true that the federal government plays a huge role especially when you look at the paris agreement but also in the sort of knowledge of climate change that s what i mean, the data. absolutely. how much are we dependent on different people in the federal government whether it s the stuff we have at noaa, whether the obseratory we have at hawaii, what nasa does, how much depends on the federal government? a tremendous amount of it does. that s under threat right now. so if you look at nasa or noaa or the u.s. geological survey. they re providing all sorts of climate data that can help us provide solutions to grow food without those crops failing because of climate change and so on and so forth. it is under threat. we do this as a superimportant message that we hope president-elect trump understands. climate science is vital to national security. how under threat it is? i guess we haven t been in these territories before. but how much could it be the case that a new administration would just say to the department of energy or the epa, yeah, we re just going to get rid of all of these parts of the government that do all these readings that produce this, what we believe is a hoax? i mean, it s certainly hard to quantify exact what that would look like and to the extent that the executive can kind of come in and determine these things, but you know, this isn t without precedent when bush two came to ourself, there was an assault on climate change at that time. we were able to get through that time period by local, state action. we re hoping we can do the same now. but this is a national treasure. i would hope everyone in your audience understands that climate science is a treasure for our kids, for our planet and for our future. you have colleagues at uc davis who are actually doing this sort of copying of data. to folks that hear that, how under the gun do the people in your community and i know a lot of climate scientists who already feel under the gun, frankly, because they spent their life working on this. how under the gun do you feel right now? look, i ve had more conversations with climate scientists. and what are climate scientists, they re lawyer, doctors, every member of ow society has a stake. we re all coming together in new ways at uc davis in particular we re developing a new initiative to connect people across all disciplines. all right. but climate change doesn t know politics. when the sea level rises, it doesn t decide to go to a democrat or republican house. right. we need to really make sure this is understood by the broader public. all right.
if the administration was standing by that tweet which sean spicer said the president is, then why could congress then need to investigate if this information already exists? the press secretary talked a little bit about the issu i have to listen to the vshage again, the transcript, but he talked about credibility and the idea there is a separation of powers as well. we also talked a little bit about the idea that hey we are in tax season, tax day is just over month away. will the president release his returns from this most recent year? the president secretary said he would got back to us. and then is the president still under audit for past returns? the press secretary confirming he indeed is. a separation of powers, and they don t want to be perceived as directing congress to investigate in a certain way. harold ford is this going to dog them much longer? it will. the question by halle and the other young lady spelled i out. i think the health care the governors will be the ar about iters, where the rubber meets the road. the republicans and moderates and conservatives alike, but governors will have the phone say in what happens here. two major stories. first health care, the other what exactly is going on with wiretapping. both of those dominating the white house press briefing. and both of those things that my colleague kate snow is going to be talking about in just a moment. i m katy tur. that will do it for me. kate take it away. i feel like i m crashing the party. great discussion. we will take it from here. good afternoon, everyone, i m kate snow. our top stories this hour. seven years in the making, republicans launching a full-court press to promote their new obamacare replacement plan. party leadership, even the white house now getting involved. but not convinced, a big chunk of the gop. this hour, in about 30 minutes from now the house freedom caucus as long with tea party senators will faulk about why they think this isn t the right way the repeal and replace. later on, the carson controversy. in his first address to his new department, housing and urban development, carson referred to slaves as immigrants. a lot of blowback over his comments. we have a lot to get through. our team is in place. chris jansing, kasie hunt, perry bacon, nice to see him again. let s start off with a hard look at what is in this obamacare replacement plan. before we get started here i want to run through the basics of the new bill. no more individual mandate. coverage for individuals with preexisting conditions is still in. young people can remain on their parents coverage until age 26. the expansion of medicaid that happened under obama, that gets frozen in 2020. and people who let their coverage lapse could see their premiums go up by 30%. finally there is still a system of tax credits to help pay for health care on the individual market but those credits are now based on age. that is something we will really dive into. you are going to want to sti with us for in a, what does that look like, how does that work? let me start with our panel, chris janszing at the white house. this hour we are expecting senator rand paul and the freedom caucus from the house who have concerns about this bill we are expecting them up on capitol hill. is the white house feeling confident right now about getting this through congress. when you heard them talk about it, and we finished this briefing that called secretary tom price they said that they are going to work this through and just didn t seem to be concerned about what the obvious problem is with this, and that is that on both side of the house and the senate you have republicans in numbers that threaten this bill who are against it. you mentioned for example, that you have this press conference that is coming up. i talked to rand paul on friday. for him and other like minded conservatives this is nothing more than entire entitlement program. it doesn t accomplish why they wanted to get rid of obamacare in the first place. that was the cost. you heard the acknowledgment they don t have any kind of estimate from the congressional budget office. when mick mull vinny went out for the white house today to talk about it he acknowledged they didn t know what the cost is. and on the senate side you also have four members of the senate who sent a her letter because they are concerned about medicaid expansion in their states. they are worried about people losing coverage. so even though you have this situation where the president it sunds like is completely all in. as sean spicer put it there is going to be a very aggressive laser like focus on this it has involved tweeting, heating with health care people,nd it looks like he will be in charge with when i spoke to him a couple minutes ago. hi mr. vice president. is this plan conservative? i m sorry? this health care plan is it conservative? this is the right plan for america. it is a framework we believe will repeal obamacare which has been a disaster. heritage says it doesn t do that, heritage action. and we ll replace this with a plan that will handwritings the power of the free market, will give states resources and flexibility to reporm medicaid, will help americans be able to purchase health insurance but the cost of health insurance will go down. we are looking forward as i told leaders in the senate today 50i78 going to be meeting with members of congress this afternoon, we really do believe this is a historic opportunity the repeal the failed policies of obamacare and replace it with the kind of reforms that will lower the cost of health insurance en while we insure that the most vulnerable have access to better coverage through medicaid and greater state flexibility. where are conservatives so opposed? i think we are early in the legislative process. and the president has made it clear we are open to ways to improve the bill but we believe the american health care act is the right framework for replacing obamacare. in the days ahead the president and i look forward to making that point the members of congress and the people of america. thank you, i appreciate it. of course the key there they are very early in this process, they seem to be open to making changes or adjustments. but at this point it is becoming more difficult to figure out how they square getting it through the house of representatives where you have pressure from conservatives and then sending it over to the senate where you already have a group of four senators writing letters saying look if you end this medicaid expansion it s going to be really tough on state budgets and potentially hurt low income americans. so that s very difficult. and any one of these political calculations can make something like this completely fall apart. you remember i covered the beginning to the end of passing the affordable care act, obamacare, back in 2009. and that was something that took an incredible amount of arm twisting from nancy pelosi who of course was speaker of the house. she was question that is something that dpemts and republicans agree she is very good at. you had a president who was at the height of his popularity right after the election. those things do not necessarily exist right now for republicans on capitol hill. speaker ryan is dealing with a caucus that s much more kind of fractured. the way he has dealt with them has been to kinds of devolve some power. it s unclear if that strategy is going to work this this case. president trump doesn t have the same popularity nowhat president obama had at the time. and all of that could really put all of thisn jeopardy, kate. perry bacon, you wrote on 538 about all of this, about the seven groups that could complicate gop plans to repeal obamacare. i want to run through your article. you said older americans because they could be charged more than younger people. you said conservative lawmakers, because it doesn t go far enough in getting rid of medication expansion for some of them. you said governors, you say you think some governors think it s stingy on medicaid. another group you are looking at is people getting affordable care act coverage particularly those with low incomes because they might not get as much help as they did. voters, democrats who don t want to see changes to the law because they like obamacare as it is. and people who support abortion rights or planned parenthood because federal plans are cut off to planned parenthood for a year through medicaid. which is the biggest challenge? we are talking about a process in congress. the biggest problem i would say is that moderates in the senate thinking it s too conservative, house members thinking it s not conservative enough. i would say older people. the aarp is organizing against this bill bus it lets you charge older people more than younger people. aarp is an influential group. i think it matters lot, too. one thing in favor of the bill passing, the republican heeders and white house view it this way, custom is that most republicans in congress ran on repealing obamacare. republican leaders view this as we dare you to go on the floor and vote against obamacare after what you promised your constituents. they have with one advantage which is that the republican voted to changing and revealing obamacare and most members don t to vote against an obamacare peal. chris jansing a the white house,ore he took office, president trump said he had an alternative vision, alternate vision for health care reform. he made promises, weapon on 60 minutes and he was asked would it be universal health care, he said yeah i really want to take care of everybody. those were his words. he even said he didn t care if it got him votes or didn t. now he is tweeting he is going to negotiate with congress. mike pence saying this is the beginning of a process. is this a shift away from the big promises he made on the campaign trail? yeah, i mean this was a central focus of his campaign. anybody who went to or saw any of his rallies saw this was one of the bige cheer points. this always got a huge reaction, that he was going to get rid of obamacare. and that he had a plan. i mean, remember, he also gave a newspaper interview where he said he had a plan that was going to cover everybody. in january he talked about that plan. now it looks as though that plan doesn t exist. he is adopting this. and we have heard really, about sort of the genesis of how this all came to be today with the hhs secretary tom price who was asked about his support for this. let s play what he had to say as the voice of this administration right now for this health care change. do you support everything that s in the bill sitting on the table. this is a work progress. it is a legislative process that occurs. we will work with the house and senate. another way to look at it is, kate, this is reality sinking in for this white house that has so few people who have ever been through this process before, that they are realizing how complex this is. you know, there were a lot of people who either laughed or mock the fact when the president said he didn t real how complicated that was going to be. there is no doubt this is one of the most complicated pieces of legislation that we have seen in recent years. and by the way, if it does get repealed, it would be unprecedented. we have never seen a major program like this that affects millions of people that then has been taken off the table. and obviously, that s part of the concern that we have been talking about for some of the lawmakers. chris jansing, kasie hunt, perry bacon, thank you all so much. appreciate it. up next we are going to kick in on one of the fine points in that stack of papers that you saw at the white house. that s the house s obamacare repeal bill. the bigger stack is the old obamacare. we are going to talk about tax credits, which existed in both plans, and what does it mean what they are trying to do now? what exactly will those tax credits look like? how will they work? when we come back. but our past is just that, past. we are pioneers. so our greatest achievements can t lay behind us, because our destiny lies ahead. that s what it means to drive the world forward. that s what it means to dare. parts a and b and want more coverage, guess what? you could apply for a medicare supplement insurance plan whenever you want. no enrollment window. no waiting to apply. that means now may be a great time to shop for an aarp medicare supplement insurance plan, insured by unitedhealthcare insurance company. medicare doesn t cover everything. and like all standardized medicare supplement insurance plans, these help cover some of what medicare doesn t pay. so don t wait. call now to request your free decision guide. it could help you find the aarp medicare supplementlan that works for you. these types of plans have no networks, so you get to choose any doctor who accepts medicare patients. rates are competitive, and they re the only plans of their kind endorsed by aarp. remember - these plans let you apply all year round. so call today. because now s the perfect time to learn more. go long. will your business be ready when growth presents itself? american express open cards can help you take on a new job, or fill a big order or expand your office and take on whatever comes next. find out how american express cards and services can help prepare you for growth at open.com. you are looking live at a shot outside the capitol building. war going to see the freedom caucus there and also conservative senators talking about the white house bill and their reservations i should say representatives. the new republican bill krnly introduced in the house provides tax credits. i want to bring in ali very well shy. you get them up front. a refundable tax credit is generally something you have to file a tax return for. right, you get it litter. this is called an advance refundable tax credit. under obamacare when you sign up for insurance you could apply the tax credit immediately. we haven t gotten the nuts and bolts but this is an advance refund. you get it at the front ends. that s how it s supposed to work. if you are 20 years old you get $20,000 as you get older it increases. now at 20 i ve been looking around. it s hard to get a full $2,000 . of the at 60, there is zero chance you are getting a policy for $4,000. it might be a catastrophic policy but not going to cover nearly everything of as you earn more you will start to see them decrease. for individuals earning $75,000 or couples earning $150,000 they will not get the same size of tax credits. here s the interesting part. under obamacare for a 27-year-old let s say, healthy, earning $20,000, on the low end they had they would get $3325 a year in sub sid sees under obamacare. that person is now going get $2,000. if you are making $20,000 and 27 years he would. $20,000 for a 27-year-old assuming you are relatively healthy. under obamacare you were getting 3225 in subsidies and credits. to put towards health care. right. under the new plan you get 2:2,000. what this leads one to understand after studying it if you are ill don t earn much money or if you are old this is not going to be great for you. there is stuff we haven t touched on yet, medicaid changes that s going to affect a lot of the poor. this is not a great thing for people who don t earn much money are sick or are old. it s hard to generalize because the a lot of the devils are going to be in the details. there are going to be outliars on all sides of this thing but when you generalize this is what you can come up with. this is instructive. just seeing an example of one particular kind of person. ali thank you so much that helps me get my head around it. earlier in the show in fact, now teleprompter is wrong right now. let me talk about who we are going to join next. it s tim live isser who knows a thing or two about one particular group of people that might be affected by this new health care plan. that i people with disabilities. he of course is with the special olympics and joins me now. tim, nice see you. thanks for having me. let s talk about the group you work closely with. people with disability. when you saw this new house plan what was your first thought? are there some good things? are there some concerns? we are all learning. i think it s very early days. i think one of the great things that this president has done is inspired so many people to take an interesting in the legislative process. i suspect this draft will be the most read draft of a piece of legislation in the last ten years, especially by people under 30. we are welcoming the process of elevating the needs of people with issues in abilities in this process. from what we can see there are reasons for concern. when you see caps on medicare expansion. when you see restrictions on some of the benefits that will accrue with people with disabilities you start to get concerned. frankly i think all americans would be concerned by this. they are respectful and decent people they want to look at a person who has down s syndrome and they want their country to be a place where they can get health care. where are you getting those concerns specifically? you mentioned caps, right, potentially on is that what you mentioned? i would say i m not a policy expert in its early days. we are seeing the potential to restrict medicare funding after 2020. medicare funding do as lot of things. you are talking about medicaid. excuse me. i said medicare. medicaid. my mistake. the caps there, some of those services include school based health care services, transportation and early childhood supports that come under medicaid. these are critically important for people with disabilities. they have been expanding in recent years with bipartisan support and we would not want to see those rolled back. let me ask you this. they have preserved key things in obamacare, right, which is if you are 26 up to age 26 you can be on your parents health care plan. and the key thing i would think for the commune of people with disabilities is that preexisting conditions don t count against you when you are treeg to get insurance. that s right. and that was a huge i mean, i consider that one of the great legislative achievements that follow a long list of achievements, ford signing the bill integrating our schools. bush, signing the bill for the americans with disabilities act. deinstitutionalizati deinstitutionalization. this notion of deexcluding people with preexisting conditions opened up this to the world of people with disability. although i don t think most people understood when that was passed it was part of the affordable care act. i think most americans would degree it s important the keep it. there is concern about these families. i think about the caregivers. i have done reporting about people for example, of people with autism, who after 21 they are out of the health care system and their parents have to take time off of work, they have to dedicate their lives to helping their kids. medicaid be that a life line for those families. there is enough fear in the culture already. there is enough bullying in our culture ready. there is enough uncertain for people who have intellectual and developmental challenges and their families. i would hope this process would make sure their stories are told. in the special olympics we have launched a 15 year campaign to develop supports for people with disabilities. extra support from foundations. bipartisan. this is not a right left, red, bluish you. these are americans, donors, volunteers, who want to expand and make the world safe for people who have struggles and challenges but who also have gifts and capacity to give. our hope is that this process won t increase the fear but elevate their stories and make sure they are included in the discussion so that the people on the right and the left will protect the decent and respectful way in which most appearance would want the see them treated. tim schreiber great to see you. up next, ben carson s first full week as secretary of housing and urban development is off to a rough start as he face as flood of backlash for comments he made likening slaves to immigrants. and live shot from outside the capitol where we are waiting for members of the freedom caucus to come to the micro pony with their response to the repeal of obamacare. we will bring you that live as soon as it happens. knowing where you stand has never been easier. except when it comes to retirement. at fidelity, you get a retirement score in just 60 seconds. and we ll help you make decisions for your plan. to keep you on track. it s your retirement. know where you stand. to keep you on track. everything your family touches sticks with them. make sure the germs they bring home don t stick around. use clorox disinfecting products. because no one kills germs better than clorox. let s look at our big three stories at the half hour right now. more than two dozen reports of tornadoes touching down across the central u.s. yesterday. hundreds of homes from damaged and destroyed. several people were hurt. none of the injuries are considered life threatening. the threat of severe weather stretched from oklahoma and arkansas northward into minnesota and wisconsin. threats against jewish community centers continued today. facilities in new york, florida, wisconsin a illinois all forced to evacuate following bomb threats. the anti-defamation league also says several of their offices received threats. meanwhile, all 100 u.s. senators urged the trump administration to take action against these threats and vandalism. they send letters to the homeland security deputy the department and the fbi calling for swift action. on friday a former journalist was arrested and charged with at least eight of the threats. however police believe he was a copycat trying to get back at former girlfriend. chance the rapper is being praised after announcing he is donating $1 million to chicago public schools. the rapper, whose real name is chancellor bennett is from the windy city and criticized the governor of illinois after he vetoed funding for public schools. the money is coming from concert ticket sales. and he says he will add $10,000 for every $100,000 raised. ben carson set off a firestorm after referring to slaves as immigrants during his first speech to hud employees on monday. take a listen. that s what america is about, a land of dreams and opportunity. there were other immigrants who came here in the bottom of slave ships, worked even longer, even harder, for less. but they, too, had a dream. for more now i want to bring in roland martin. he is host and managing editor of news one now on tv 1. roland, always good the see you. likewise. i do not need to tell you this has exploded on line. it has blown up. a lot of people are not happy about what he said. your take? well, it s stupid and as nine. the bottom line is ben carson, as politico is reporting has said this for couple of decades, using immigrants, it s simply flat out lie. it is a false. and you simply can t compare the two. i can tell you last night when i heard his interview when he tried to clarify those comments on armstrong williams radio show on sirius xm radio i heard those as well and those were idiotic as well. on his personal facebook page he posted an explanation that made more sense. this is bigger than ben carson. you have seen the efforts in texas to change the textbooks where mac grau hill published the book describing the slaves as workers brought in from america. the tea party wanted to remove that farm owners were slave owners as well. there is this of the by conservatives to somehow soften or redefine slavery. and that s why people are offended by what the secretary had to say. roland, i would ask so many more questions but i think we have to go to capitol hill right now. if you can pause for us. okay. we are expecting republicans now speaking out. this is members of the freedom caucus who have had concerns about the health care bill. let s listen in. campaign with president trump all across north carolina and one of things that he talked about was repeal and replacement. now when he said that, it took on two different meanings. repeal, to many, meant that we would repeal the entire obamacare plan. all the taxes, all the mandates, the medicaid exchanges. and when he talked about replacement, it took on another meaning to others, which it meant that we needed to cover the preexisting conditions, making sure that people didn t get kicked off of their health care plan, making sure that there was an adequate safety net. i can tell you that those two things are still the focus of not only the house freedom caucus but my good friends senator lee, senator rand paul, and senator ted cruz. as we look at this today, we are going to be talking about a number of scores in the upcoming days. cbo scores. and what score, that this means and what does it mean for the american people. i can tell you there is one score that the american people will pay attention to. and that is, does it really lower their health care costs and their premiums? that s the only score that really matters. and if this doesn t do it, then we need to make sure that we find something that does do it. and with that i m going to turn it over to the gentleman from ohio who plans to introduce a piece of legislation that really repeals the affordable care act the gentleman from ohio, jim jordan. our goal is simple to bring down the cost of insurance for working families and middle class families across the country. in an effort to do that, we think you have to get rid of obamacare completely. tomorrow i will introduce the bill that every single republican voted on just 15 months ago, the bill that actually repeals obamacare. our plan has always been repeal in one piece of legislation and replace in another. that replacement we talked about a few weeks ago is the bill sponsored by dr. paul in the senate and mark sanford in the house. there is three plans out there. collins plan, if you like obamacare you can keep obamacare. there was the leadership plan that was brought forward which i believe when you look through it is obamacare in a different form. then there is our plan, the one i think is consistent with what we told the voters we were going do. repeal obamacare, replace it with a market centered patient centered doctor centered plan that brings down the cost of insurance, brings down the cost of health care and prois affordable insurance opportunities for all americans. that s what we are focused on doing. think about this, he put on president obama s desk a bill that repealed obamacare, got rid of every single tax, got rid of the mandates, and now the first thing republicans are bringing forward is a piece of legislation that we are going to put on a republican president s desk that says we repeal it, but keeps medicaid exexpansion and actually expands it, that keeps some of the tax increases. th is not what we promised the american people we were going to do. our plan, repeal it clean repeal, just like we all voted on above. separate legislation to replace what we currently have with a model that we think will bring down the cost of premiums for the hard working people of this country who sent us here to do just that. with that i want to turn it offer to the sponsor of our replacement plan in the senate, dr. rand paul. today i will introduce a companion bill also to congressman jordan s plan to have complete repeal arc clean repeal. we ll be doing this in the senate today as well. there is one thing that has united republicans in 2010 when we won the house, in 2014, when we won the senate, and in 2016 when we witness to white house. this doesn t divide republicans, this brings us together. and that is complete repeal. clean repeal. as congressman jordan said, we voted on this last year and every republican voted for it. that s what we should do again. but we are divided. we have to admit, we are divided on remaysment. we are united on repeal, but we are divided on replacement. what s the best way to get past this impasse? let s vote on what we voted on before, a clean repeal. let s separate out the replacement plans. conservatives have a replacement plan. house leadership has a replacement plan. i m sure democrats would like to go back and vote on the aca again. vote on all the replacement plans and see what happens. let s vote on clean repeal. the only way i think this gets done is to separate the issues. separate out clean repeal from replacement. let s got get it done. repeal unites us. i think we can get tha done. with that i ll intro senor mike lee from utah. what s been introduced in the house in the last 24 hours is not the obamacare replacement plan. not the obamacare repeal plan we have been 40e7ing for. this is instead a step in the wrong direction. and as much as anything it s a missed opportunity. look. we ve seen what happens when congress decides to put forward a plan negotiated behind closed doors where members are told you have got to pass this bill in order to find out what s in it. it s usually not a good product. on this topic i m not speaking about anything that s necessarily inherently democratic or republican or liberal or conservative. this is just a common sense vauchlt that what we ought to have in congress is an it rative process one week start with basic grounding principles. the two parties are in widespread disagreement when it comes to obamacare itself. but there is one plan and only one plan that has so far passed a republican congress. it s this plg plan being reintroduced today. that plan passed with the support of every republican in house of representatives and every republican in the senate. and it did so just in the last 14 months. so i think we ought to put this forward. we ought to got it passed and then let s move the ball forward in an it rative process, a process in which people can propose different ideas that will benefit the american people. that s what we want to do. and that s what this process, this bill, the 2015 repeal bill, would do if we were to pass it right now. it s now my pleasure to introduce my friend and counter-part in the house, congressman mark sanford from south carolina. thank you. about hf an hour ago, maybe less than that, about half an hour ago the produce wrapped up its daily press briefing with the press. in it it was spruinstructive int sean spicer said the health care plan being introduced is a work in progress. it s interrog that secretary price said the same thing at the beginning of the press conference. it is a work in progress. if we liken this sort of to donald trump s world of everything is a negotiation, what we have now is an opening bid. and i think what conservatives are saying is okay that s the opening bid but based on some thing that happened whether in 2015 or principles that conservatives have long advanced might not we constructively look for ways of refining what s been introduced? that s what ultimately this press conference is all about. i think respectfully it s about asking this simple question, which is, do we need to lower the bar in what we believe as conservatives simply because a republican is now in the white house? so the bill that congressman yorn is going to introduce is all about simply not lowering that bar, of saying wait a minute, to their point, 14 months ago something was in there with unanimous accord with republicans on the house and senate side. let s stick with that plan. it s prospectively as well, in looking forward let s not lower what we believe or lower the bar on what we believe simply because a republican is in the white house on new ideas. so you look at the idea of a cadillac bill. cadillac plant that s based in the current bill that s being talked about. i don t know. is that a lowering of the bar? you look at something like the refundable tax credit. is that lowering of the bar? it was ron reagan who said that the closest thing to eternal life is government program. guaranteed eternal life in government is an sbilg men. when we are talking about here is a new entitle men. for a variety of different reasons this is simply about going back to things and principles that long worked on the conservative side and things that republicans espoused and grabbed hold of here within the last 13 months. i m louie gobert, the newest member of the freedom caucus. we are told we re known by our enemies and known by our friends. i m proud to be known by this group of friends. i m glad we finally got a bill out. it is not 2500 pages. it is a starting point. some people asked what i told president trump when he came down the aisle for the state of the union. one of the things i said was you are going told we can t do some of things we did two years ago with obamace. and it was true. it is still true. so as long as we re ae to get amendments to the floor that will fix some huge problems with the bill that s now been filed, then we ll be okay. but there better not be a rule that prevents amendments that are badly needed to fix this flawed bill. that would be a major problem. we don t need as mark said we don t need to start new entitlement programs. and we certainly don t need to have the bottom line effect, what mark meadows was talking about that prices of insurance don t go down. so there are things that have to be on the that have to be included. but we have got a starting point. i think amidst the horse extreatment we can find a upony around here somewhere. that s what we are looking to have, we will have a race horse as long as we can get in good amendments when we re done. aunk all. i think it s helpful to reflect about eight years back in how we started to do health care reform eight years ago. i think you her the heads of the insurance companies walked into the white house looking at their shoes. and something was wrong there. and so eight years later, the head of aetna says we are in a death spiral. and so the health care system they arranged eight years ago obviously didn t work. and so central government, top down government control, especially at the federal level, does not work. we ve seen that. now, interestingly the press comes and says the car is in the ditch, how are you guys going to fix it in two weeks? right. the answer would always be, we should have done free market economics and free market health care in the meantime, over the past, 20 30 years. last time what did we focus on? we focused on 18 million coverage. we didn t focus on prices or the cost of health care. now you have health care costs going up at 25%. the speaker, health insurance premiums, prices cost up 25%. the speaker said the gol is to shift the cost curve hold. all of you in the press corps can hold us accountable to that. what that means is not a reduction in the rate of increase not down to 15% growth in costs. a reduction in bending the cost curve down means costs go down by negative 1%. that s what the american people are dieing to see it. happened in every other market. it happened with cars, cd players started at $300, and now down to $30. if we are lowering costs a $100,000 heart procedure here costs $15,000. that s a radical difference in costs. that s easier to solve if we would have addressed the fries and the cost issue. we currently have $100 trillion unfunded mandatory spending program in this country. we promised $100 trillion to the next generation in programs. the federal government has created that problem. medicare is insolvent, social surt is insolvent. now we are creating another entitlement on top of $100 trillion. i think your reporting needs to be clear. when we create another entitle men in the next generation. one goal we have is i want to push as much of this down to the state level as i can. the federal government has a unique ability to print money and put it on the next generation. the states have to run a balanced bum. i trust them more in the governance to be more fiscally responsible. those are some of the major ideas. it s not tinkering around the edges. there is a philosophical difference what it means to do free markets. and we want to put in the mechanisms to ensure that that becomes reasonable. thank you. thank you, tom garrett from verge s fifth congressional district. i want to thank congressman jordan, senators lee and paul, my cohorts in the freedom caucus for having me here today. this is simply too important to rush through. the proposals that came out yesterday were shrouded in a cloak of secretsy that denied well over half of the house and well over half of the senate the ability to essentially participate in the process. so the debate must be had to fit within the framework envisioned by our founders. would know that historically freer mark don t get me wrong, i understand that health care is not a commodity like sneakers, but freer markts lead the lower costs. and we can do this withoutet contracting a new sboolgt men. about a month and a half ago i believe objection familiar s research came out indicated that the eight wealthiest individuals on the planet earth controlled as much wealth combined as the bottom 50th percentile. that s 8 people, plus 376 billion people had as much welt as 3.6 billion people. to put the united states s current debt, imagine if you will that we can extract every dime from the entire 50th percentile and down of wealth and then the eighth wealthiest people and then apply that to the current standing debt, not unfunded liability, current standing debt. folks, it would pay off under 10%. we hear the usef e word unsustainable again and again and again in this town. and some things really are. and new entitlement programs and spending on top of spending truly is. we can turn the cost curve down ward and do so without encumbering future generations. it s as simple as that. i heard this characterizing this as lot of people playing a game of chicken. we are resolute and we will stand here and do what is right not just for today but for posterity. thank you very much. we ll take some questions. john parkinson, abc, go ahead. i heard you guys using the optimism ahead, you know, the president will negotiate with you. today he had a tweet that said you early theed this as a wonderful bill. do any of you want to use that term, wonderful, and if so, what parts of the bill do you think are wonderful? no. and there are some improvements in the legislation from the leaked draft. but there was a wonderful bill that every single republican voted on just a few months back. and tomorrow senator paul and myself will be introducing that same piece of legislation. and that is exactly as i said earlier consistent with when we told the american people we were going do, repeal obamacare. how about using the bill we all supported? and then replacing it with something we actually believe is going to lower health care costs. mr. jordan, can you talk for a minute, mr. jordan and mr. meadows here about you said mr. meadows you met with the vice president. he said he is open to negotiation here. and the vice president was over in the senate, and he said this is the bill when i hear all of you talk, it sounds like you were trying to get somewhere where you can support a legislative product here at the end of the day. but as you just alluded to, mr. jordan, you said and mr. garrett said this, the wrote this in the dead of night, so on and so forth. so why would you trust them? chad, of course we are trying get somewhere to repeal obamacare. we know what a disaster it has been for the american people. the people spoke loudly and clearly on november 8:. comment right on target. doing it right s important, not just doing it, doing it right. and that s what today s about. that s why we re going to introduce our legislation tomorrow. that s why we think the two pieces of legislation that mode of getting it done is the proper way to proceed, and that s why we re introducing the bill tomorrow and why we have the bill we introduced weeks before. trust what the vice president said of course. this is the bill. yeah, the vice president is an honorable man and we trust him. i think what there s some difference in the context of what s being said is i think the president and the vice president is saying that the foundation there is a good foundation. we might disagree on that, however, we re committed to looking at that foundation and seeing how we can modify it, how we can make sure that we look at really repealing fully and replacing the affordable care act in a meaningful way. and so i don t know that those are mutually exclusive issues as we look at that. we re going to pause just for a moment here to show you on the right side of the skraen. president trump meeting at the white house there and talking a little bit about his health care plan that s come out. let s take a listen to this. we re going to have a lot of victories, a lot of wins, but we have a great team. together we re going to do incredible things for the great citizens of our country. as i said during my joint address to congress, and i think you mostly like that, right? love that. like it a lot. we re witnessing a renewal of the american spirit, a surf optimism and a new national pride which is sweeping across the land. i see it. there s such spirit. whether it s for the business things we re doing or whatever. it that s spirit that we haven t seen in the country in a long time. jobs are pouring back, you saw what happened with exxon where they just announced a massive jobs program. we re going to have fun. we have to remember, obamacare is collapsing. and it s in bad shape. and we re going to take action, there s going to be no slowing down. there s going to be no waiting and no more excuses by anybody. we re all now, i can probably say i m a politician. okay. i am a politician. but we re going to get it done. and you re the leaders that really will get it done for all of us and for the american people. obamacare is in very bad shape. i believe that if we wait two years, it will totally implode. it s really pretty much imploding now, steve, when you think. but it ll implode and people will be like please help us, please help us, and that ll be the democrats asking for help. they already are asking for help in the true sense of the word. because it s a disaster. the insurance companies are fleeing. some states are up over 100% in costs. the deductibles are through the roof. you don t even get to use it. we re going to do something that s great and i m proud to support the replacement plan released by the house of representatives and encouraged by members of both parties, i think really that we re going to have something that s going to be much more understood and much more popular than people can even imagine. if it follows the guidelines i laid out in my congressional address. a plan that will lower costs, expand choices, increase competition, and ensure health care access for all americans. this will be a plan where you n choose your doctor, this will be a plan where you can chse your plan. and you know what the plan is. this is the plan. and we re going to have a tremendous, i think we re going to have a tremendous success. it s a complicated process, but actually it s very simple. it s called good health care. so i want to thank you folks for being with us today, ladies and gentlemen and we will do something really, really important and really good for the american people. i think it s going to go very quickly. i hope it s going to go very quickly. as you know after that we work on the tax cut. we re going to be planning a major tax cut. i know exactly what we re looking at. most of us know exactly the plan. it s going to put our country in great shape and we re going to reduce taxes for companies and for people. and i can use the word again, massively, it s going to be a big tax cut. the biggest since reagan, maybe bigger than reagan. i look forward, i really look forward to working on that. we can t get to that unfortunately because of the way your system works. we can t get to that until we take care of health care. so, we ll take care of the health care. i appreciate your great support and let s get it done. thank you. thank you all. fantastic. thank you. mr. president, thank you for having our deputy whip team to the white house. and thank you for your commitment on following through on what to most americans is probably one of the most important promises that were made not only by you, but by all of us in getting this majority vote in the house and senate and the white house. and that is rescuing the american people from the failures of obamacare. we ve heard the message for years. we ve seen the dramatically skyrocketing costs. double digit increases every year in most parts of the country in health premiums for families. many families are seeing deductibles that rise above the $10,000 range. which means people don t have acce to hlth care. people don t have the ability to choose their own doctor. you talked about this the other night, and just one of the best speeches i ve heard from a president standing out that well in the house chamber when you addressed the joint session and gave an inspirational speech to the country laying out the things that need to happen and that you re going to do to get this country back and track and secure america. but one of the things you talk abouted is how it s wrong that unelected bureaucrats in washington have the ability to tell you what you can and can t buy for your family in health care. one of the most personal decisions families make. this bill finally starts the process of not only repealing obamacare, but also replacing it with reforms that put patients back in charge of their health care decisions. that lower costs for families. let them actually choose the decisions between them and their doctor which are so personal. and so as we start this process, the people in this room, the chief deputy whips are the ones that are going to be working directly with members to ultimately pass this fwoil your desk so that we can quickly provide that relief from obamacare to the people of the united states. and i know we are honored to have our former house colleague and now our vice president of the united states whose been involved in this fight from the beginning as well, vice president mike pence joining us too. thank you, vice president. thank you very much, steve. and again, we re going to work quickly. it s a great bill. we re going to have tremendous i really believe we re going to have tremendous support, i m already seeing the support not only in this room, i m seeing it from everybody and i m seeing it from look now old news i got elected to a certain extent. pretty good little chunk based on the fact, repeal and replace obamacare. and many of you people are in the same boat. very important so let s get it done. thank you all very much for being here. thank you. okay. thank you. thank you. thank you. thank you. okay. let me walk you through what we just saw. that s president trump at the white house meeting with members of the republican house leadership. they call them the whips office. those are the folks on capitol hill who are noent kind of whip up the votes and help pass legislation through the house. you heard from steve scalise, he s the house majority whip and you heard from the president saying we have a lot of support saying that this is a plan that we can back. i m proud to support the replacement plan released by the house were the words of the president just before that though, i would note that we were hearing from members of the house and two senators, members of the freedom caucus, conservatives who have a lot of concerns about this health care plan. we heard them speaking on capitol hill, eight of them spoke before the cameras. i want to bring in now nira tandem. she served in the obama administration as a senior advisor in the health and human services department where she worked on the affordable care act in the beginning. bill ystal, founder and editor of the weekly standard. bill, i want to go to you first, that was quite a jux position what we just heard. members of the house and senate saying we have some problems here. we re not ready to support this, it s too important to rush this through and the president saying everything s fine. a lot of republican members in the house especially are going to have indigestion tonight trying to figure out they don t want to derail the first major piece of legislation tabled by the speaker of the house and supported by the republican president. they had deep concerns about the bill that was just unveiled monday night being rushed through in this way. mark-up is tomorrow, one of the most effective criticisms of obamacare which seems to be all these deals under the table and late at night and rush votes. i wonder what s going to happen. this is a big moment though and you saw serious members of the house, jim jordan and serious senators for the first time breaking with their republican president, president trump. and let me get your take on this, you worked on obamacare, you know how hard it is to make the sausage, right, to get something through. republicans would say, look, they ve got the majorities, they can do this. it might take a while, but they can do it. yeah, i think what you ve seen over the last 24 hours is how difficult this process is. i mean, we passed the affordable care act and there was ewe nam anymorety on the divisions. and it was not an easy feat. it is really hard. but we did not have this level of disagreement. there is not just disagreement between the trump administration and the trump white house and
so much brian kelly. you know i love you, genuinely one of the kindest people i have ever met. i love this show love, we will see you online, foxnews.com/outnumbered, now happening now . jenna: we start with a fox news alert, the trump administration is expected to address breaking developers on pending votes in the house for spending and healthcare a short time from now when the daily white house briefing begins. jon: we will take you there live. we also anticipate hearing about the crisis with north korea. we re covering all of the news happening now . congress reaches a deal to fund the government through september. are we seeing a new bipartisanship in washington? and new science of g.o.p. unity on healthcare, do republicans have the votes they need? plus, the u.s. sets to test another interdental intercontinental ballistic missiles with nuclear capability as the pressure on north korea he thought. it is all happening now . jenna: to begin with a fox news alert and a fresh display of bipartisanship on capitol hill, advancing vote on the spending bill while we are also seeing signs perhaps of g.o.p. unity on healthcare. had to add that disclaimer because you just don t know these days. welcome to the second hour of happening now, i am jenna lee. jon: i m jon scott. as we learn about the big boats taking place in congress we await reaction from the other end of pennsylvania avenue, the white house daily briefing will kick off about 30 minutes from now. follows a busy weekend with the administration and the president touting the first 100 days of the trump presidency. let s begin with chief congressional correspondent mike emanuel live on capitol hill with more on the latest going on there, mike? good afternoon. the serious effort to get things done in congress this week, finding the government through september, also a serious push to get the final book 8 vote to push healthcare reform on the house floor. that has long been our priority, unfortunately, because of obamacare, we continue to see premiums increase, co-pays, 1 out of 3 counties in america only have one plan available to them, so we need to be taking steps to ensure that everyone has a better healthcare future in this country. on the new government funding bipartisan agreement, speaker ryan says america will be stronger and safer because of this government funding bill. it acts on president trump s commitment to rebuild our military for the 21st century and bolster our nation s border security to protect our homeland. there is no funding for the border wall, no money for a proposed deportation force, no cuts to stationary cities and no cuts to planned parenthood. one sticking point that has been resolved was health benefits for retired coal miners and lawmakers from coal country states like west virginia, kentucky, and ohio are pleased that issue will be resolved when the legislation is passed. it means thousands of coal mining families, retirees, widows of coal miners can rest assured that there won t be every four months of your healthcare coverage expires. imagine that. you get a letter in the mail every 3-4 months to say six weeks from now, your insurance is going to expire. this is a group of people more likely to have health problems than your average 40-year-old so this is really, really important. when you take a look at the $1.07 trillion government funding package, there s always something folks can like and certain aspects folks do not like. it is called a compromise. jon: that does not happen very often in that building where you are. mike emanuel, thank you. this has been a big priority for the president but also republicans in the house could we have known obamacare is simply unsustainable. it s collapsing under itself, and we have to take drastic action to repeal and replace it. one of the big things that is being discussed and is currently in the bill, i know the controversy you mention with pre-existing conditions, that is in the bill, but there also gives some sensibility to the states so that was an important obamacare assembly one-size-fits-all which we knew would not work. what always works in california may not work in florida or south dakota, so this bill offers some choices in with tha that, hopefully will give some lower cost in again choices for consumers. jenna: that was deputy white house secretary sarah huckabee sanders earlier on our program talking about what was the thinking was, that bipartisan agreement to keep the government up and running in the agreement when it comes to healthcare. that would be strictly with the republicans. let s bring in fox news contributors, former campaign manager for president ronald reagan. great to have you here, while we watch this drama play out, we don t have anything yet when it comes to healthcare but you hear from the white house around else without knowing the details is a hard sell. i think at the end of the day here on the bipartisanship, this is a short term, five-month budget fix, everyone got a little piece of something. the big budget comes in october. the defense did not get what it want to, the president promised, he made a lot of compromises which is very positive in the supplement of but not willing to make, rises at this point in time. jenna: i m curious about your thoughts on this final question with president trump that if we do nothing, this is going to collapse, and everyone is going to have to be brought to the table. is that feasible still? we certainly do not want to see that for our viewers or ourselves. what are the different scenarios? here is other scenario. senator schumer hasn t said if you just take obamacare and do some fixes to it, we democrats will participate. ed and i have both been involved in bipartisan legislation. it is tough to do. but there is no willingness if it is the republicans so committed to repeal and replace that they cannot do bipartisanship. the problem is they do not have a bill. you can repeal, vote tomorrow to repeal, it is the replacement that is the big problem. equally important, a lot of people don t believe it s going to crash and burn. they still think it s going to work and like it. traditionally when you do a big piece of legislation, you give people something in this case, you take something away. jenna: would you say the president should sit back? if i was in the white house, i would let it go and let the tax bill go and work on the budget. if i get votes moving forward, i would do it later. jenna: interesting, see what sean spicer leads with to see what their priority is. i think they are pushing this through and it is at their peril. jenna: great to have you both, interesting conversation. it is healthcare, it is pretty serious. quick programming note on two new shows premiering on the fox news channel later today. fox news specialists airing for the first time at 5:00 p.m. new contest that could come at any time. and congress takes action tomorrow debating a new round of sanctions against the rogue nation while the trump administration reaches out to asian allies in an attempt to contain kim jong-un. rich edson live at the state department for us now. good afternoon. the u.s. congress and house tomorrow will debate a new round of north korean sanctions, that is coming up tomorrow, bipartisan bill that tightens existing sanctions, economic sanctions, it also targets those who employ north korean slave labor, north korean shipping and requires the administration to determine whether north korea is a state sponsor of terrorism. this is working in concert with the administration strategy which is essentially to get other countries, namely china, to further enforce existing sanctions and to also isolate north korea economic and diplomatically. one analyst says the key to pressuring north korea is to get china to commit. koreans have seen so many sanctions imposed on them by the u.n. that they are sort of blase by now. but indeed, if china actually starts to enforce them, then i think they sit up and take notice because that would be new. this is after the secretary of state on friday held a special meeting to the u.n. security council, it was designed to figure out ways to discuss pressuring north korea all part of the initiation effort to get the rest of the world s sense of urgency behind the north korean issue. the secretary called out china specifically as china makes up about 90% of north korean trade, however, china s response to that was that solving the nuclear issue on the korean peninsula does not lie in the hands of the chinese side. this very much continues to be an effort from this administration to push china. state department says it wants to see changes in north korean behavior within the coming months. secretary of state says he is willing to pursue this strategy of pressuring north korea who wrote an unsubstantiated dossier on president trump. a lab report from our nation s capital coming up on that. ere we are awaiting their daily white house briefing such a start moments from now, we will bring it to you life and it begins. didn t recognize our grandson. 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(avo) ask about namzaric today. manait s a series of is nsmart choices. and when you replace one meal or snack a day with glucerna made with carbsteady to help minimize blood sugar spikes you can really feel it. glucerna. everyday progress. nosy neighbor with a glad bag, full of trash. what happens next? nothing. only glad has febreze to neutralize odors for 5 days. guaranteed. even the most perceptive noses won t notice the trash. be happy. it s glad. that to you, but an active shooter situation from what is being described in dallas, texas, . jon: this fox news alert, a san diego pool party comes to a horrifying end. the gunman opens fired on a quiet due my credit event, killing one woman and wounding six others before police shot and killed him. his victims, all minorities. authorities say the motive is still unclear but they are not ruling anything out including a possible hate crime. and we are learning more about the condition of the victims now. we are told several people underwent surgery, some are still in critical condition, one man also broke his arm while running away from the scene. jenna: some new information on the russian investigation as the chairman of the senate judiciary committee chuck grassley says the fbi provided inconsistent information regarding its ties to crist do my christopher steele. he s a former british spy who apparently wrote that dossier claiming that they collected, rising information on president trump. this comes just two days before fbi director comey is set to testify before that committee. our chief intelligence correspondent catherine herridge live in washington with more. thank you, head of this week s highly anticipated public testimony, the republican chairman of the powerful senate judiciary committee sent this letter to fbi director james comey, accusing him of making inconsistent statements about the bureau s relationship with former british intelligence officer christopher steele. he wrote the anti-trump dossier and steele said it contain unverified information but was still published by buzzfeed and is the subject of legal action paired the fbi used the same dossier to justify surveillance warrants of a trump advisor during the 2016 campaign. senator grassley in the ranking democrat committee member dianne feinstein met with james comey for a closed classified briefing earlier this year and new documents provided by the justice department to the committee s conflict with that briefing. he writes, there appeared to be material inconsistencies between the description of the fbi s relationship with mr. steele that you did provide in your breathing and information contained in justice department documents made available to the committee only after the briefing. some democrats say the allegations in the trump dossier have a lot of merits be of the raking democrat on the house intelligence committee adam schiff ran them into the record during the march 20 of russia hearing where comey testified along with the nsa director. is it possible that all of these events and reports are completely unrelated and nothing more than an entirely unhappy coincidence? yes. it is possible, but since it is possible, may be more than possible that they are not coincidental, not disconnected and not unrelated. in a new seven-page declaration, steele told the british courts that large sections of the dossier were unverified and said they were never meant to be public in any form. jenna: thank you. jon: so we are awaiting the white house daily briefing. it is such a start about 9 minutes from now. when sean spicer stepped to the microphone, we will take you there live. whoa, this thing is crazy. intuitive one touch video conferencing is a reality. and now it s included at no additional cost with vonage business. call now and see why 3,000 companies a month are switching to vonage. business grade. people friendly. on a perfect car, then smash it into a tree. your insurance company raises 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do something? we do have to do something. we have to do something with partners in the region and globally. that involves enforcement of the u.n. sanctions that are in place. it may mean ratcheting up this sanctions even further. it also means being prepared for military operations of necessary. jon: that is h.r. mcmaster, the president s national security advisor. with all the options on the table to deal with north korea s growing threat, the u.s. is preparing for a new test of an intercontinental ballistic missile two days from now. it comes as the house moves to vote on a new round of sanctions on the rogue nation as the effort to contain kim jong-nam testifies. joining us now is a senior research scholar at columbia university, weatherhead east asian institute, former cia senior north korea analyst and managing director for our group asia. it is great of you to be here. the missile test that the u.s. is conducting, clearly we are trying to get kim jong-un s attention. is it working? to see pay attention to that kind of thing? i think kim jong-un is playing due to my paying attention, he s very paranoid and concerned about washington and controlling washington so when the trump administration says all options are on the table in week test icbm missiles, we will get his attention. jon: we are apparently getting ready to ratchet that sanctions even tighter on north korea. vote that be helpful and effective? i think it will be effective. sanctions have been in place for a couple years, but they re only about a year, so around took three years, but north korea has not been affected before because of enforcement issues. don t have enforcement on the ground. secondary sanctions is important, but this means probably going after chinese banks and entities doing business with north korea which would then cause strain with beijing. jon: the chinese have indicated to president trump the fact that they are willing to get a little tougher on north korea. do you see active signs of that other than blocking the cool shipment? i think we need to see, that is something that will take time. if china is really serious this time around, they did unfortunately say many times in the past they would do it and enforced sanctions but we know that china has not been active in that. so we have to see where china really is if they are being serious. jon: the president has held off declaring china a currency manipulator, for instance, because he wants their help with this very problem. is that a fair trade-off in your view? i understand what trump administration needs to do is try to put maximum pressure on china and also give some incentives, economic incentives, but i am not sure. again, i am not overly hopeful that china will actually follow through, so i think the trump administration might be disappointed down the road. jon: do you see the north koreans testing and other nuclear device? they have been trying to test missiles. those test, as chris wallace was saying, they have not gone well. but another nuclear device, do you see them taking provocative steps? absolutely. i think north korea has to follow through with my missile test and even a nuclear test. what they might consider or reconsider, the key question is will they test icbm s? that is the critical threshold for the united states, whether they successfully test an intercontinental listing muscle that can reach mainland united states. jon: they have said they are going to bolster their nuclear force to the maximum. they really are maintaining this bellicose attitude. that it would not seem is warranted on the part of a country that is really not all that strong militarily. what they have is nuclear weapons, and that is why it is really hard for kim jong-un to keep that up. i don t think he will give it u up. he is seeking legitimacy and spending the time tube perfect this that his father and grandfather have pursued, it has cost billions of dollars, and kim jong-un said himself that this is his mission. we are in for a long road ahead, i think. jon: it sounds a little writing, some of the prospects, thank you very much. jenna: a bill is one step closer to becoming law in texas that would penalize sanctuary cities in the state and punish local officials who do not enforce immigration law. our legal panel takes it up. we are awaiting the daily white house press briefing such a start any moment from now. we will bring it to you live when it begins. jon: all kinds of issues on the front burner when sean spicer begins the daily white house briefing just a few minutes from now, at least that is when it is scheduled. you have tax cuts, perhaps replacing and repealing obamacare. you ve got this north korea situation. all of it is on the table. press secretary scheduled to be she s already running a few minutes late, but we will take you there live when it begins. jenna: to texas now, and they are one step closer to passing a ban on sanctuary jurisdictions in the state, that would hold local police chiefs and other officials accountable for not enforcing immigration laws. doug mckelway is life in washington with more on that. they have one of the toughest policies of any state regarding illegal immigration and this winter instituted a policy that denied states grant money to any texas city that provides sanctuary to illegals. now texas is on the cusp of a tougher policy with expected passage of sb 4, 8 bill that would allow for the finding and even jailing of shares, police chiefs and mayors who do not follow federal immigration policy. one, and expose them to very high fines, about $25,000 per day, it could expose them to jail time for any sheriff or other official who adopts the century city policy, it can also subject the county or city or whichever political body it is to legal action in the event that they released somebody. the liberal enclave of austin, texas, is a sanctuary city, and it is right in the crosshairs of that legislation. to be clear, somebody that is in this country undocumented has committed a crime to the next civil violation, not a criminal violation, a civil violation. and our police, our local law enforcement personnel, their job is to go out and apprehend people who are violating or suspected of violating criminal laws. the texas bill would also allow law enforcement to question any detained person about their immigration status. opponents of this essay it is the show me your papers bill, but supporters note it is not allowed police to question just anybody for the sole purpose of determining their immigration status. the texas senate and house have passed different versions of this bill and will likely be reconciled, passed and signed by the governor by the end of this week. it will be taking effect by september. supporters already expected it to be challenged in court. jon: for more on this, let s bring in our legal panel, john is a criminal defense attorney and a former prosecutor and criminal defense attorney. it sounds pretty astounding, the idea that the state could actually prosecute local officials for failure to uphold the law. astounding or genius because this should have happened a long time ago. the state is now doing its part and saying, listen, it s not just up to the president of the united states to stem the tide of illegal immigration. the states can do their part, too appeared to make it a crime to fail to obey or cooperate with federal immigration authorities is a smart way to g go. jon: listen for a second to governor abbott, he says essentially we are a nation of laws and that is why he supports this bill, listen. when you look at the function of a government whether it is federal, state, or local, our primary function as government is to keep our people safe. it is an x usable for travis allen to do what he has done which is to release from jail people who have committed crimes against her alleged of committing crimes of sexual assault, sexual assault of minors, and many of those people back out on the streets, that is contradictory to the function of a government is supposed to do. jon: how do you what is your take on what the president has to say there, does he have it wrong? but he is not considering is someone s fourth amendment right, and i have said this before, i will say it again. this is less about immigration and more about the constitution. what this bill is doing is forcing local law agencies to make a choice, either to comply with this bill or to comply with the constitution. if they don t comply with the bill, they are looking at being jailed up to a year or if they don t comply with the constitution, then they could be held liable for millions in a civil suit. it is not fair. the law enforcement, local law enforcement already have a toughen up job by having to try to get rid of violent crimes, real crimes in their areas, and now in addition to that, they are going to have to spread the resources, limited resources that they do have are going to have to now spread that and now try to advance immigration laws, federal immigration laws that the federal government should be paying for, not local government. jon: specifically, how would they be violating the constitution? here s the thing. if they want an undocumented immigrant to stay in jail, then what they need to do is get a warrant fear what were just going to lay out as probable cause to believe that they are undocumented. that would give the local law agencies no choice but to comply, but what you have with an un-dump do and documented immigrant whose case is then suspended or dismissed or whatever the case is disposed o, there is no way you can hold somebody beyond the time that the law actually allows you to. that is where the constitution comes in. jon: joanna, what do you think about that? i think i have a constitutional right just like kate steinle did not to be killed by a violent longtime criminal, illegal alien in this country who was let go numerous times. let s also remember, the feds are not just plucking people off the street willy-nilly. if you come to the attention of i.c.e. authorities it is because there is a reason. if we don t work hand in glove together, we will never solve this problem, that is what i think. this new bill is going to allow officers now to make up a reason to stop people then question them about their legal status. that is actually wrong. number two, yes, i agree, don t let undocumented immigrants who are violet out on the street, but if it is so important, get a warrant. get a warrant. get a warrant if you have an issue. if you think cops have the time to make up reasons to stop people instead of just stopping people because they do that now. they do that now. it is called racial profiling. jon: you can see why this issue is browsing so much attention in the state of texas. we will continue to keep an eye on this story and let our viewers know what happens there. thank you both. jenna: in the meantime, back to the breaking news out of texas today. in an area of dallas, southeast area of dallas where we are getting reports of an active shooter situation. as this has unfolded over the last 40 minutes or so on our program, what we ve been watching as this. the news initially was that a first responder or firefighter was shot by somebody that we don t know is the person that placed the call for the first responders to come, so we still have a question about that. was it the person that called that was also shot? we don t know and we do not know where the suspected shooter is. we do know authorities are looking for a man, and that is about all we know at the time. according to the dallas police association, officers are pinned down and from what we can see from our vantage point where you are seeing as well is that it looks like all of the emergency responders as well as police are focused on one particular home in the area. right now, according to our local fox affiliate on the ground, you have a firefighter in surgery at baylor hospital in the area. also our understanding of this neighborhood that there is some sort of training facility for firefighters, that may or may not be relevant. we are trying to piece together what we are learning so far. still police have an active shooter and dallas, and looking for the suspected gunman who apparently has a rifle. that is all we know. we will bring you more as we get it. also in the area of texas not far from there, there are severe storms that hit over the last 24 hours and throughout the south this weekend. this system is heading east now, want to give you a heads up on the weather you can expect. also awaiting the daily white house briefing set to start just moments from now. we will bring it to you live when it begins. .this is humira. this is humira helping to relieve my pain. .and protect my joints from further damage. humira has been clinically studied for over 18 years. humira works by targeting and helping to. .block a specific source. .of inflammation that contributes to ra symptoms. it s proven to help relieve pain and. .stop further joint damage in many adults. humira can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal infections and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened, as have blood, liver, and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure. before treatment, get tested for tb. tell your doctor if you ve been to areas. .where certain fungal infections are common and if you ve had tb, hepatitis b, are prone to infections, or have flulike symptoms or sores. don t start humira if you have an infection. talk to your doctor and visit humira.com this is humira at work. storms across the south and midwest killed at least 15 people, that system now on the move which means you need heads up on this. adam klotz is live in the foxworth dude mack weather center with more. the very system you re working on talking about is working through the eastern midwest, stretching down into the south east, as of now, not particularly severe weather but still pretty good thunderstorms wrapped within the system. couple areas we still need to pay attention to. this is looking back off to the left, portions of southern indiana stretching to arkansas, 12-8 inches of rain, as a result, still flooding issues that take a little while for some moisture and rain to run into the creeks and rivers. as a result, we have flood advisory stretching across portions of missouri up into illinois and farther toward the west. still an area where if you re in this area even though we are not expecting more rain come you can see additional flooding so something to pay attention to. future radar with the system that continues to track this direction, here it is moving through the evening hour continuing to descend on the east coast. eventually, we will see some thunderstorms with this one as well, really hitting some of the major cities along the east coast in the night hours running into early tomorrow any wood neck morning. we see some really highlighting areas from syracuse, new york, down to the appellation mountains, but those are areas where we can see at least an isolated tornado, definitely very big rain, and this is going to stretch further to the south, maybe not severe weather far to the south, but these thunderstorms are sunday we will pay very close attention to throughout the rest of the evening and into tomorrow. tornado possibilities. not the highest on our list, just elevated but still looking for portions of pennsylvania up into portions of new york and down into the virginians, all areas where we put will pay very close attention. it is all being fueled as you know from fairly warm temperatures, we are seeing some cool air settle this way so temperatures will drop when the rain finally moves through the area. jenna: adam, thank you. jon: here s another look at what bad weather can do. turbulence on board one flight. 27 passengers injured on a flight from moscow to bangkok. some of those people thrown out of their seats. it was a boeing 777 that hit what pilots called clear air turbulence, meaning there was no warning that anything like this was coming. thankfully, none of the injuries, we are told, is life-threatening. jenna: want to know why, we do stores like that i remember the rest of my life. jon: keep your seat belt on. jenna: good advice. we are watching the white house pre-doing a press briefing room, should be a host of topics for them to speak on and we will bring you there live hopefully after a quick commercial break. we will be right back. that s cool. i got a new helmet. we know steve. it s good to be in (good hands). manait s a series of is nsmart choices. and when you replace one meal or snack a day with glucerna made with carbsteady to help minimize blood sugar spikes you can really feel it. glucerna. everyday progress. hello, everyone, i am sandra smith. we are awaiting the white house press briefing with sean spicer where he is expected to get questions from everything from north korea, healthcare, the gas tax and even civil war. a head on america s newsroom hq . jenna: fox news alert, back to dallas where we are watching this developing situation, see a large police presence. this is because a firefighter was shot responding to a call earlier in this dallas neighborhood. what we have learned from our local affiliate is that the shooter is on the loose. we don t knowut the shooter other than he was described as having a rifle. the firefighter is in the hospital, apparently in surgery at this time according to sources on the ground. we will keep you posted as we hear more, but the suspect that inside the house as we previously thought and on the loose, so more to the story as we get it. back to washington, d.c., now where we are awaiting the daily white house press briefing set to start if you moments from now. a lot of big news to watch, we will bring it to you live when it begins. jon: thousands of immigrants and blue-collar workers are key mayday with demonstrations across the country. many of them protesting president trump s tough stand on illegal immigration. allison barber live in washington with more. people are starting to gather here right now, the group actually is not going to all be here until about 3:00, and an organizer tells me they expect to have 10,000 people show up here to protest this administration s immigration policies from this area where we are stating now, dupont circle. they will make their way over to the white house and hear from people like dnc chair tom perez. he s expected to be one of a fairly long list of speakers over at the white house. there are other protests similar to this one happening all across the country. if you began early this morning in san francisco. one took place outside of the immigration and customs enforcement building. this group right here in d.c. says they are speaking out on behalf of immigrants and immigrant workers, not only do they want their voices heard, but they also say they are demanding action. they are calling on congress to withhold funding for some of the key things this administration has said. they wanted to do when it comes to immigration, they want congress to withhold funding for the border wall as well as additional money to pay for i.c.e. agents. jon: allison barber covering that protest in the d.c. area, thank you. jenna: as we mentioned, awaiting the daily white house press briefing such as dart peered we keep saying any moment from now, but that is what we thought at 1:30 eastern time 25 minutes ago. we will just keep waiting, that is the truth. sean spicer set to hit the podium with big issues including the spending bill as well as healthcare reform. we will bring you there to the podium as soon as it happens. we will be right back. so when it comes to pain relievers, why put up with just part of a day? aleve, live whole not part. tell you what, i ll give it to you for half off. that goes beyond assuming beingredients are safe.ood to knowing they are. going beyond expectations. because our pets deserve it. beyond. natural pet food. able to expand and create new jobs under the president s pro growth economic agenda. he signed two executive orders that will help keep jobs and wealth in our country. first fulfills an executive order of a major campaign promise by directing the secretary of commerce to identify every violation and abuse of our trade agreements and to use every measure available under the law to end those abuses. and the second established the office of trade manufacturing policy which will be led by dr. peter navarro. this office replaces the national trade council and elevates it to a permanent office within the white house, sending an important signal to the world that the united states will no longer tolerate trade cheating while our manufacturing and defense industrial base suffers. he also signed a third executive order over the weekend establishing the american technology council which would be led by chris ladell which is dedicated to modernizing the federal government information technology so that it works more
are we going to repeal and replace obamacare with something better? this is the covenant that we made with the american people when we ran on a repeal and replace plan in 2016. we are designing a system that is not going to lower costs, and that is the big deal. by removing the mandate of a government-mandated, you must buy this program or you will pay a penalty, and eliminating choice, we are enacting, i think, very strong conservative flat numeric values and health care that give all-americans more choice at a lower cost. i think that should be a very positive message. make no mistake, the president is very proud of the product they produce. we are going to try to make this bill better if we can, but right now, where it is, it is not what we told the voters we were going to do. shannon: tonight, as president trump finds himself in sell mode, we will delve deep into the divisions. page david mcintosh, president of the club for this year, he just met with the president within the last hour but he is going to tell us whether he was convinced by mr. trump s pitch. then governor scott meeting with the new here to tell us what he thinks the pill is a good start. we begin with key congressional correspondent mike emanuel on the hill. two relevant committees getting a first crack at this republican health care package. this hour, lawmakers continue the work on this bill. democrats have convicted mack accused colleagues are trying to rush the bill through before they ve gotten an assessment of the price tag and overall impact from the congressional budget office. my inquiry is, again, if i can say it, if you ll let me say it is, after the last two months of saying we were going to use this, that we were not going to try to jam things down speak of the gentlemen have a parliamentary inquiry. now you work doing exactly that. what is your inquiry . republicans came out against the package yesterday, president trump tweeted that he feels sure his friend will come along with his new and great health care program and the senator offered this response. i do agree with the president, and i talked with him this week, i agree that obamacare is a disaster, and i agree that we should repeal it. i think that is where the unity is. then we re going to have to have a debate over replacement. fox news has confirmed in the house republican conference meeting with steve scalise today, as to members if they are with the president on health care or with house democratic leader nancy pelosi. i think they should be with their constituents, and their constituents have a lot to lose if they go along with this. it is interesting to see the figures of the people who supported president trump who are on the affordable care act. they say the president is in sell mode, and many sources say that will be critical to getting this done. part of that offensive is expected to include budget director at mick mulvaney inviting members of the conservative freedom caucus to the white house next tuesday night for a little pizza and bowling. shannon: a bit of a bowling summit. all right, make. thank you very much for the update. joining us now, david mcintosh, president of the club for growth who called bill, a warmed, substitute for government health care but he just met with the president. it is pitch work? david, let s find out. how did the meeting go? there s been no secret that you ve been been a big critic. we shared those concerns, criticisms of the bill, with the president. i can say, i was encouraged because he was listening. yes, he was selling, he said, we ve got to get something done, i am pushing you and the congress to get a bill through so that we can repeal obamacare. we pointed out that the house bill isn t the best vehicle for doing that. they don t fully repeal obamacare. they keep some of the taxes that he passed. they keep the expansion of medicaid, and the worst thing for us is, they don t create competition against across sta. people will end up spending as much of the do now on their health insurance bill. and the promises that republicans made were, we are going to repeal it so there will be competition, free market, you can pay less and get better health care. shannon: you are not convinced this does that in any way. the most encouraging thing, shannon, the president and his team said, yes, we get it, this needs to be changed. we encouraged him to michael push them to change it, we want to work with you to pass a better bill. shannon: something people have really been looking forward to come up when the criticism first bubbled up, the president tweeted out, we re going to get that. are you confident that will happen? also, we had on congressman kevin brady, the chair of one of the committee s tackling this right now. i pressed him on whether they are going to let people make substantive amendments. you want to know that that input is going to be taken great are you convinced from your meeting with the president tonight that this thing will happen? i am convinced the president is going to push for it, i m not convinced the house leadership is taking input from conservatives. they haven t from the beginning and that is the mistake they are making on this bill. i think they should do is allow amendments to fully repeal obamacare and then work from there to bring back a free market bill and a process that will benefit all americans because health insurance will be cheaper and they won t have to have all of these constraints and mandates that the obamacare builders. keeping a lot of that is the big problem with the house bill that they are working on. shannon: they have got it price tag, we know it is not free. i want to ask, where you come down on the issue of we had senator lee on last night, talking about reintroducing the whole obamacare repeal from 2017, would you support that is a different vehicle? i think that is when you could easily pass in both houses. once they start making changes and ryan starts adding things back in that look like obamacare, you start losing votes. yes, i think that is a good starting place for them. i think they could take the ryancare bill and get rid of the changes and keep obamacare provisions and then the ryan-caret bill could be good too. there are some good things in their. shannon: i see icu of adopted the moniker that a lot of folks i don t love the bill are now calling it ryancare. thank you for giving us some intel and insight into your meeting with the president and keep us updated. i am encouraged by the president pushing them to keep changing until they get a good bill. shannon: david mcintosh, thanks. here now, florida governor rick scott, and met with speaker paul ryan today. i know you spent a lot of time meeting with the president one on one. what do you make of what we have so far. would you pass it as it is written now? you know my background. i ran the largest hospital in the country, this is important to me, we know obamacare is an absolute mess. the president inherited a mess. i am encouraged that we having a real conversation here. i m going to make sure it is fair to floridians, but i am encouraged, and i m going to work to make sure i want to make sure that we get a bill fair to floridians and make sure people have access to health care. the problem here is, costs are too high, whatever we ve passed has to focus on costs. shannon: what do you say to those who say they don t see in this bill any evidence that it will bring that cost down? we got to focus on cost. if you look at access is 100% tied to cost. that is my focus. on top of that, whatever we do, i have got to fight for florida, and i m going to. shannon: let s talk about medicaid, floor did not take the medicaid expansion, that is a hotly contested issue. there are some senators who are conservative g.o.p. senators who say, listen, if you don t keep the medicaid expansion going, it has been critical in my state, you may lose my vote. there conservatives say, we don t even like that is continuing for three years. where d you come down on this? you made a very bold choice you thought was best for your state. sure. we know the way they have done obamacare, it is not sustainable, costs have gone up, taxpayers are not going to build pay for it, it has caused premiums to go up. just got to be repealed. in the meantime, i ve got to fight for florida, and i m going to fight for florida to make sure it is paired for florida. we didn t do the expansion because we knew it was not sustainable. i ve got to make sure that whatever passes is fair for our state. i want people to get access to health care, but like you said, we ve got to focus on the cost side. shannon: what about across state lines? is that something you support? absolutely. you want to drive down health care costs? i whatever insurance you want, make sure you have more competition, across state lines, and reward people for taking care of themselves. those three things will drive down costs. shannon: what you make of the tax credits? especially the freedom caucus and others say that it is just another word for an entitlement and that is not something they can vote for. this is way better than obamacare. this bill, if this bill passes, it is way better than obamacare. i think there are a lot of things we can improve on. i want people to have access to health care. i want them to be able to afford health care. i think this is a great starting point. i think we are going to keep working on it. shannon: florida governor rick scott. thank you, governor. breaking news this hour, fbi on the hunt for a mole inside the cia. makes a very rare statement about this latest massive leak of classified information. ahead, former cia contractor james mitchell, the man who personally interrogated the mastermind of 9/11, on the dangers these leaks pose to our nation. plus a california mother of two struck and killed by an intoxicated driver, we are now learning he was known to be in the country illegally, deported five times previously. we ll debate that case just ahead. knowing the history that he had come out with the and so forth, just a slap on my hand and sent back. he came back. it should have been done like that. that shouldn t have been done like that. -i would. -i would indeed. well, let s be clear, here. i m actually a deejay. 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(team sing) safelite repair, safelite replace. don t let the food you eat during the day haunt you at night. nexium 24hr. shuts down your stomach s active acid pumps. to stop the burn of frequent heartburn. all day and night. have we seen them before? banish the burn with nexium 24hr. central intelligence agency, the fbi launching an investigation to find the person who leaked the sense of classified information as they search for the next manning or snowden. we ll be joined by james mitchell, the man who personally interrogated 9/11 mastermind khalid sheikh mohammed. first, ed henry live in washington with new details. hi, ed. we are told the leak involves the entire hacking capacity of the cia. that part, and pursing a revelations about how it has the capacity to break into smartphones, turn smart tvs into microphones that record our conversations and could actually kill someone by hacking into a car that is connected to the internet. the cia has just released a statement acknowledging that this is a very damaging leak, of course, that could jeopardize american personnel and operations. the cia also insisting that while they have these tools, they are not using them to spy on americans. a spokesman declaring it is important to note that the cia is legally prohibited from conducting electronic surveillance targeting individuals at home including our fellow americans, and the cia does not do so. the cia s activities are subjected to rigorous oversight to ensure they comply fully with u.s. law. the white house meanwhile today also jumped into the fray. we will go after people who leaked classified information. we will prosecute them to the full extent of the law. this is playing with our nation s national security, notes mcnutt should be taken lightly under this administration. tech company scrambling tonight, apple declaring about 80% of their users have the most updated operating system that fixes vulnerabilities while samsung simply said privacy is a top priority. as for the hunt for the mole, telling catherine herridge there are three scenarios, an insider who is an employee or networker, or a network cyber breach or some combination of the two. shannon: ed henry live in washington. here no, dr. james mitchell, author of enhanced interrogation techniques pretext for being with us tonight. thank you for having me on. shannon: we understand there is officially a federal criminal investigation, how in the world today go about tracking this. i asked our inside team to tell them, how many contractors are the cia, they couldn t break it down, but they said within the intelligence community as a whole, at least 27,000. the assumption is that it is a contractor. because that is what it has been in the past. but it could be anyone. the other question that you asked me about how they are going to go about tracking these folks down, i really don t think we should talk about that. at least people who know should be talking about that, because the very reasons we don t want to hacking tools release does, we don t want them to know the methods we are going to use. what we need to do is relentlessly hunt these folks down because they are not just placing american personnel at risk, they are placing american lives at risk. shannon: so it s not a contractor, are you saying you do believe it was maybe a cyber breach from outside? it could be an employee, it could be a cyber breach, it could be a small band of people. one of the things that we ve done in this country that disturbs me a little bit is that we have romanticized this subculture of hackers to the point that they have become almost a tribe where they have become called heroes, and that the cool thing to do is to get into the hard places to get into and then to sort of give people a peek into their underwear drawer, so to speak, right? that has somehow become a way of taking scalps, and that s a problem. particularly if it is an employee of the government or a contractor or it is some sort of a breach, we need to find that, we need to find those people, and we need to stop them. shannon: who benefits from this? who benefits? criminals benefit. they are talking about doing more releases, and if they release the source code, that is particularly dangerous. not only would criminals have that but the bad guys would have that as well. every day somebody from al qaeda and isis gets up and tries to figure out a way to kill americans here in the united states. imagine if they could launch a catastrophic attack simultaneously with some sort of cyber warfare weapon attack as well. it makes us incredibly vulnerable. a second side effect of this thing is, i know a lot of people have criticized me because of my involvement in interrogations. one of the weird side effects of releasing this kind of information is, you make people like me that much more necessar necessary. we have these surreptitious, clandestine ways of getting information, now you have revealed all of that, so it is going to be harder to do that because they are going to protect themselves. and if they can go invisible, then they can plan attacks. shannon: yes or no, are you confident that our investigation will find the person or persons responsible? they will if they re not politically correct about it. i know that there are those on the left and on the right who, like a sacrament glamorize these leakers like snowden and manning as if they were some kind of culture heroes or some kind of called heroes. and i think that is a mistake. they are traitors. they should be treated like traders. because it s not just the cia personnel or the intelligence community personnel or the military personnel or our state department people who are in danger. it is american lives and american citizens. shannon: all right come on, thank you for your insight. we appreciate it. thank you, ma am. shannon: here now, ari fleischer, and marie harper ma. how do you begin to tackle this issue, now the cia is having to talk about things, although they are not publicly confirming or denying the authenticity of this material, having to talk about sources and methods, i know that others are talking about it, our enemies are seeing it. how do stem the bleeding at this point question mike it is a huge problem. the cia statement you just read is an important one because it made several points that americans need to realize. nothing in this set of documents that was put out talks about anything directed against americans. it puts out information about activities that, quite frankly, we believe the cia should be doing, going after terrorists, criminal drug gangs, people trafficking in person periods nothing in this that was directed against americans. that is important. but it also does incredible damage to this contribute to the doctor was absolutely right in your previous interview. the bad guys now have information about how we go after them, and that is a problem. i have faith that the fbi and the intelligence community will find eventually whoever did this. absolutely, this is a problem. shannon: ari, what problems does this raise? channing, great question, that s one of my first thoughts, anybody who works with us, we know we can put our lives and their hands. this makes them scratch their head and say, we want to work with the americans, but is it safe for us to do so? this is a calamity. i think dr. mitchell made a very good point when he stated that we cannot celebrate the edward snowdens of the world. they are some of the lowest, most vile criminals. they put our country at risk, americans at risk, and they should not be celebrated. they need to be condemned. one of the things i hope comes out of this is that they return edward snowden test so he can go on trail and get what he deserves. shannon: marie, do you think it is time for him to publicly renounce and collect wikileaks. he at one point said, i love wikileaks, he made comments. they are not doing things to benefit the united states of america, and a lot of people think we haven t done enough to go after them, to shut them down, to come up with real punishment for people who are feeding them information. what would you like to see from the white house on this? absolutely. i think a full denunciation of wikileaks. there were a lot of national security experts, you re absolutely right, both republicans and democrats, who were very uncomfortable with how donald trump embraced wikileaks because they were helping him politically. wikileaks is an organization that had already done damage to the united states with the chelsea manning documents. they are an organization that is trying to undermine u.s. security, and i want the white house to come out and fully criticize them, denounce them, and make clear that what they are doing is completely abhorrent and they will find the source inside the government of these leaks. shannon: ari, is this a golden opportunity for the president to step out on this issue? you ve been at the heart of the communications. the president is in a jam and he put himself here on this issue. a president that called on them to release even more information to wikileaks. i was always uncomfortable with russia interviewing with our election and finding wikileaks to be a conduit. and it happened to benefit donald trump politically. that is a route that i think is close to him, unfortunately, because of choices he made early. wikileaks is not the issue here. the issue here is traitorous americans that have done this. i presume that they are americans. the people who are associates, contractors, in all likelihood, and i m stunned this could happen twice, had been at the national security agency and haven t hear the cia. there has got to be a better way to protect our assets and our information. it bothers me from the inside that he could happen within months. shannon: and wikileaks tweeted out today they have only released 1% of what they have from the cia. ari, maria, good to see you both. speak up thanks. shannon: still breaking tonight that you will not want to miss, and alleged iraqi insurgent entered the u.s. with a fake i.d. lawmakers calling for an explanation as the shocking details unfold. we got that just ahead. +2 unthinkable crimes allegedly at the hands of illegal immigrants, one involving a young man now charged in the gruesome decapitation of his own mother, the other claiming the life of a mother of two who was struck by an illegal immigrant who was driving, allegedly under the influence. david wahl and richard fowler are here on those cases next. it so was taken away from us that it is a pain you cannot describe, you know. and it is fair and it will be for the rest of our lives. in the state of texas. actually making your body feel better. that s exactly what tommie copper does for people everywhere. they call it wearable wellness, and tommie copper has infused it into everything they do. why not experience the difference tommie copper can make in your life? 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hi, shannon. let s begin in california where 42-year-old sandra duran, just an hour after leaving church, was struck and killed in her car by a drunk driver. police say the intoxicated driver, 45-year-old estuardo alvarado was fleeing the scene of another traffic accident at a high rate of speed. and the reason this case is generating so much outrage is because, since 1998, alvarez had been deported five times and had been arrested in los angeles more than five times, including for two previous duis, driving without a license, several charges of drug possession and resisting arrest. alvarez is now being held on $2 million bail, and if he were to be released, which is highly unlikely, immigration agents have issued a detainer to taken into custody. the family of sandra duran say they don t want this case to be used against illegal immigrants just trying to make a life, but they also believe california authorities share in the plane. listen. speak up knowing the history that he had with the duis, it was like a slap on the hand and sent back, and he came back, and it shouldn t have been done like that. separately, 200 miles east of charlotte, north carolina, and illegal teenage immigrant from honduras has been charged with killing his mother. police say 18-year-old oliver funez decapitated his mom because he, felt like it. when police arrived on the screen, they spotted the suspect carrying both a butcher knife and his mother s head. this two younger siblings were inside the house on mike unharmed at the time. he is a so-called dream are protected under docket. his attorney says that he has significant mental issues. shannon? shannon: trace, thank you for spelling out the issues for us. joining me now with more, david wall cannot attorney and president supporter, and richard fowler, fox news contributor. good to see you both. interestingly enough, david and richard, i m sure you re aware of this too, the victim and the drunk driving crash, her sister is an l.a.p.d. officer and said, not only are we grieving, i am worried about how many other families this is going to happen to create david, is this the president s best argument on this issue? the two public officials that owe them an apology are the mayor of l.a. and the chief at l.a.p.d. allowed to stay in l.a. after he returned to the united states after being deported five times. on top of that, we risk losing, and l.a. county, 3.4 billion, with a b, dollars of federal funding, and as far as the young monster who beheaded his mother, how do we know he wasn t adjudicated criminally insane in honduras? we don t know that, because of people crash the border, we can t do a background check. that is why the wall is so necessary and that is why mr. trump is so hard on getting it build. shannon: richard, even the woman s family, her father has said, i don t want her case to be used to hurt other people who were coming here in good faith to be immigrants who need to make a living, desperate to escape their home countries. even he, who just lost his daughter, said he doesn t want this to change the entire conversation. and that is what makes this issue so hard, shannon. you think about stories like this that are devastating and depressing, and those folks shouldn t be in the country. then you have case from the miami herald a couple of weeks ago, a man that came for economic freedom, being deported for minor traffic offenses. we have both sides of the coin, and it s not working. the reason my, donald trump, while i understand while he has put this executive order forward, this is a stopgap measure. they need to get bold and say, we are going to actually have comprehensive immigration reform with a pathway to citizenship. right now, america is operating on 1980 1980 immigration laws,a 1980s have called and asked for their laws back. now that donald trump has the white house, he has the senate, and he has the house, let s get some competence of immigration reform done so we can fix the problem spread stolen said we are on a temporary pause, for some of this, you re okay with this, i have a lot of issues with people who are in this country who are under investigation, according to the fbi. david, does this begged the question, like richard said, like this is time to get something done on capitol hill that will be a more permanent solution? channing, 1986, ronald reagan passed the amnesty act. everybody thought that would cure the problem. they said, we ll give everybody amnesty, after that, strictly enforce it. the bottom line is, we have immigration laws, people in europe waiting in line for years to get into america, saying, wait a second, everybody that sneaks up from the southern border, we have to make special accommodations for them just because? it doesn t look that way. mr. trump is focusing on the hardest core criminals like mr. alvarado, who wouldn t have been here, by the way, if he had been given sanctuary in this city and a president that it actually enforce the law. shannon: we have to leave it there. he was somebody that had previous drug charges and drunk driving charges as well. one of the cases under the administration will be focusing on. richard, you cited something else. we thank you both for being her here. up next, a story that is still breaking at this hour. a probe from a republican lawmaker claims and i rocky. suspect is inside the u.s. after lying his way into the country. just minutes ago, we got exclusive reaction from the justice department and the white house. breaking details next. plus, as a day without women protests continue, we will examine whether this does more harm than good. old me i may reach my blood sugar and a1c goals by activating what s within me with once-weekly trulicity. trulicity is not insulin. it helps activate my body to do what it s supposed to do release its own insulin. trulicity responds when my blood sugar rises. i take it once a week, and it works 24/7. it comes in an easy-to-use pen and i may even lose a little weight. trulicity is a once-weekly injectable prescription medicine to improve blood sugar in adults with type 2 diabetes when used with diet and exercise. trulicity is not insulin. it should not be the first medicine to treat diabetes or for people with type 1 diabetes or diabetic ketoacidosis. do not take trulicity if you or a family member has had medullary thyroid cancer, if you ve had multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2, or if you are allergic to trulicity. stop trulicity and call your doctor right away if you have symptoms such as itching, rash, or trouble breathing; a lump or swelling in your neck; or severe pain in include pancreatitis,s may which can be fatal. taking trulicity with a sulfonylurea or insulin increases your risk for low blood sugar. common side effects include nausea, diarrhea, vomiting, decreased appetite and indigestion. some side effects can lead to dehydration, which may make existing kidney problems worse. with trulicity, i click to activate what s within me. if you want help improving your a1c and blood sugar numbers with a non-insulin option click to activate your within. ask your doctor about once-weekly trulicity. i did. n t. hat? 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navy not a permanent ban but some time to look at things and get some work done. marc was talking about a different thing. these weren t refugees, these were people coming in on different kinds of visas. the refugee system is actually incredibly rigorous. it takes two years. there is, like, a 20-step process that refugees have to go through. and the overwhelming majority of refugees are desperate people, many of them women and children, many have fought with or served as translators for our troops on the battlefield and are living in a enormous danger and some of these countries. so, no, i don t think the pause makes sense. shannon: what do you make of the fbi s announcement that 1,000 domestic cases of potential terrorism they are looking at, 300. they say a third of those cases are people who came here as refugees. well, there is a big difference between investigations and arrests. shannon: true. if you look at the data, the overwhelming majority of terrorist attacks in the united states, of which, thankfully, very few, people who have lived in the united states, either were born here or were citizens or lived here for a long time. people who come as refugees very, very rarely commit crimes. people that come as immigrants commit crimes and lower numbers than citizens. so this is not a serious problem. shannon: we are almost out of time, want to make sure i give marc a quick final word here. sure. it s not only refugees that are part of the pause. it is other people with visas. the fact is, we know people who have come here on visas and fooled our screening system and carried out terrorist attacks. the woman in the san bernardino shooting, she came here and killed 14 people. the underwear bomber, his father went to a u.s. embassy and said, my son is a terrorist. they didn t revoke his visa, he came in at almost blow up a plane over detroit. shannon: all right, marc and matt, good to hear from both of you. protests and strikes across the country as a day without women with fewer women at work in fewer kids at school. katie pavlich here to debate. definitely doesn t have that. you can leave worry behind when liberty stands with you™ liberty mutual insurance afoot and light-hearted i take to the open road. healthy, free, the world before me, the long brown path before me leading wherever i choose. the east and the west are mine. the north and the south are mine. all seems beautiful to me. to take advantage of this offer on a volvo s90, visit your local dealer. celebrating women to bashing president trump. trump does not have respect for women! but he also doesn t know the power of women. we know our value, and we know that america doesn t function without us. shannon: katie pavlich is a news editor at town hall.com, and kathy arue is a liberal editor. good to have you both with us. all right, kathy, i want to start with you. is this more about promoting and celebrating women, or is this more of a continuation of the women s march which was clearly, and washington, about saying, this is not our presidents, we want nothing to do with him. it is a continuation of the women s march. they did say this is the fourth-largest event that they are planning, 4 out of 10 events in the first 100 days of trump s presidency, to protest him and his stance on women and what he has done for women, which isn t much, and what we expect from him isn t much, and by putting betsy devos in office, it is hurting teachers. many teachers have already taken to the streets and are protesting. process team trump and betsy devos and the record so far. it is a protest. shannon: katie? your reaction 20 saturday? it is hard to take the line about betsy devos seriously when hundreds of teachers refused to show up at hundreds of parents had to scramble to find child care. a separate issue. in terms of what happened today, i think that women that showed up for work today deserve a lot more credit than those who did not, and as far as what these women are allegedly protesting, in the last month, president trump has assigned two pieces of legislation investing money into specifically putting money toward women entrepreneurs and the sciences. he has also developed a new correlation between the canadian government and the u.s. government to promote female ceos and business. and, of course, there is ivana trump, who is a close advisor ivanka trump, who is very progressive in her issues, child care, maternity leave, paid maternity leave. in terms of what their goal is, i m not sure, but i think the focus should be only one who showed up for work and did their job, climbing the ladder based on their merits and the work they do and earning respect that way rather than throwing temper tantrums. but women did show up for work today, and if they did show up, they are wearing red to show that they are with the women who did not show up. the point of not showing up, a day without women, a day without a woman, is the point, can schools function without women? and teachers and nurses are the most underpaid women in the country. for teachers not to show up they are underpaid and they are overworked. very aware of that. shannon: what we have had this particular events today had hillary clinton won? i don t think hillary clinton would have overruled the policy that takes the away the public polling shows that americans are against that. thousands of women are going to die as a result. katie, i ll let you take that, i ll let you respond preach to go thousands of women are not going to respond paid it is a fact paid it is not true at all. that is not true at all. in terms of how we move forward here and help with the goal is, national women s tape was originally founded in 1909 by the american socialist party. nothing has really changed to this day. this was a march about liberal women, liberal policies, policies, taxpayer-funded abortion, which the majority of americans disagree with. it wasn t about all women. pro-life women were specifically told they could not go. kudos to those who showed up. shannon: katie and cathy, thank you for your time, and we re glad you both showed up for work today, along with me. we ll be back. i did active duty 11 years.my in july of 98. and two in the reserves. our 18 year old was in an accident. when i call usaa it was that voice asking me, is your daughter ok? 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