support. that s trump. he added, our very weak and ineffective leader, paul ryan, had a bad conference call where his members went wild at his disloyalty. well, trump also went after the republican party itself. with the exception of cheat can go bernie out offing the nomination, he tweeted, the democrats have always proved to be far more loyal to each other than the republicans. and, this year, republicans far more difficult than crooked hillary, he said. they come at you from all sides, they don t know how to win, i will teach them. that s trump. it s so nice that the shackles have been taken off me today, he said, and i can now fight for america the way i want. in other words, the next four weeks could be the wildest close to a presidential race in modern times. hallie jackson joins us from panama city, florida, where trump will speak later tonight. hallie, with i want you to listen to this. this is trump, donald trump himself, the real guy, back in 1998. and when you listen to this, think to yourself, didn t he know his past would trail him. watch this. did you ever have a flicker when you were taking a shower or walking to work or waking up in the morning and you said, donald trump, you ve won every battle you ve ever fought, why didn t you run for governor or president? people want me to all the time. what about you? i don t like it. why? can you imagine how controversial i would be. him with the women, can you imagine me with the women? can you imagine? he knew! he kne his rep! he knew his past! what he d done, what he d bragged about. yet he put his head into the oven of this presidential campaign, knowing that in the end he would be followed by that, stalked by his own reality of the past. reporter: yeah. what do you think? you know the guy, you ve covered him. reporter: yeah, yeah, he s run this entire campaign on he is who he is, let trump be trump. that is exactly what he has done for the last 15 months. and so i think, if i had to guess, there was a sense of, hey, i am who i am, i was who i was, and this is who i am now. he has flip-flopped, people don t care. the supporters that rally around him done. you know, love him or hate him, and people do both, that has been one of the constants in this campaign, is trump s going to trump. you know, i don t know. maybe he s right about something i heard ken langone, a very smart republican business guy say, even if he loses 59-41, which is possible, that still says that 41% of this country, more than two in five, voted for trump. so maybe he does have a sense let me ask you about this fight. in taking on it s such a barroom brawl now. he goes you know, paul ryan, i m not a big fan of paul ryan. he comes out and says, i m not going to be seen with the guy again. and he says, okay, buster, we re going to fight and i m going to win this without you and i m going to make you look stupid. the same thing with john mccain, the guy who ran for vice president last night, the guy to ran for president the time before, going into a boxing match in a back room with these guys. reporter: listen, i talked to a top adviser of donald trump within the last 30 minutes about that very issue, why pick these fights, why do this? and his strategy is, part of it is, it fits with his message of going after washington and going after the establishment, rather than do it rhetorically, donald trump s going to do it on twitter. yes, he s going to continue to go after hillary clinton in ways that you have seen develop over the last maybe several days, starting with that debate on sunday night. and even over the weekend a little bit. we expect to see more of that tonight here in panama city, but this is something that trump wants to do. it s why he got on twitter and decided this was the message he wanted to send. he s going to fight d.c. how does that get him to the white house? presumably, the strategy seems to be, if you do that, you will rally the people around you that have supported you through this primary, and potentially, pick up more support pip mean, that s the big question mark, chris. it s not enough to just go for the floor that he has. he has a floor of 40% when you look at what the strategists say. that s not enough for him to take the white house come november. he has to expand his appeal. you saw him try to do that a little bit after the convention, when you saw prompt trump, if you will. and a more straight-laced, someone who s shifting in that direction. the question now is, will trump unleash or unshackle, whatever he wants to call it, is that going to help him win more people over? i don t think it will work. anyway, thank you, hallie jackson. during the debate last night, or last night, donald senator john mccain of arizona said he wouldn t vote for his party s nominee. here he is, john mccain. it s not pleasant for me to renounce the nominee of my party. he won the nomination fair and square. but, this is i have daughters. i have friends, i have so many wonderful people on my staff. they cannot be degraded and demeaned in that fashion. so how are you going to vote for? i think i might write in lindsey graham. he s an old, good friend of might be and a lot of people like him. the fact is, i can t seriously, i cannot vote for either one. well, today donald trump responded via twitter, what you just heard. it doesn t get any worse. no, it does get worse and worse. the very foulmouthed senator john mccain begged for my support during his primary. i gave, he won, then he dropped me over locker room remarks. it s going to get worse. anyway, i m joined right now by hugh hewitt, the host of the hugh hewitt show on the salem radio network, and michael steele, former chair of the republican national convention, both are msnbc analysts. michael, i don t know whether reince priebus has the capability to hold this party together. it s not staying together. this is a battle between all the brand names, the bold-faced names of the republican party are now in a back room or a barroom fight now, throwing stuff at them about their foulmouthed and it s totally raw. you know, this isn t what we think of as a presidential election. no, it isn t. in my lifetime. no, it isn t. and it s really kind of the trifecta, if you re looking at this. you have a base that s ticked off beyond pressumeasure and me hurling every possible piece of ammo they have at the party as a whole. and principally, at its leadership. you have the political leadership as well as the executive and congressional leadership that s, you know, disarray, has no idea which way to turn to support, not support, to move towards or away from. and then you have donald trump, the nominee of the party who really doesn t care. that s how this you know, i was thinking in the bible, you and i are the same religion, a lot of people know this biblical story, of abrahamic background, but let s go with it. samson and the temple, they cut off his hair and blind him and he just brings down the temple. yeah. what do you make of it? it seems like samson. he finds the strength to do that. and that s where donald trump that s what one of those tweets was, i will show you how to win. i have the wherewithalithin me to do this. i don t need you to do this. and the party just doesn t know how to respond to that at this point. you ve got the chairperson, reince priebus, who s sort of standing there, like almost samson between the pillars, stretched out, but doesn t have the strength to kind of pull all of these disparate pieces or ends to the point where they can move forward together. i just don t see victory here. hugh, i don t know if you re really a political type, but you certainly know it. and i don t know if you ve ever been in the dirty trenches of politics, but i don t see the strategy here. what is the trump strategy? it s based on bad information. paul ryan was part of a ticket that got 60 million votes. he is the unequivocal leader of the republican party. the caucus is not deeply divided. i know dana roarback, there may be five people who are afraid to get primaried. dana s going to get primaried by a guy named scott bond for what? because he s not in step with the caucus. but he s pretty far right. he s very far right, but he s going to get primaried because people want him gone, because he s ineffective. so he s mad at paul ryan. but paul ryan has the caucus behind him. mcconnell has the senate behind him. john thune came out against him. i would urge mr. trump to recalibrate and treat this as a potentially temporary separation, not a deeply divisive and irreparable divorce. who s head of the republican party right now? paul ryan. is he really? paul ryan and if you had a vote in this country among all republican voters paul ryan. paul ryan. republican voters. paul ryan. michael, do you buy that? i don t know if his name i.d. is that high. do you think that guy is the head of the republican party, rank and file? yes, wihe is. how do they even know about him? how d they get to know him? i assure you rank and file republicans across nation know who paul ryan is. they ve followed his career, know the work he s done, know the proposals he s put out. could he have beaten trump if he d have gotten in? what was that? could he have beaten trump for the nomination? you know, that s a very interesting question. well, it s the question i just put to you guy. who s the leader? that s the guy who wins. this is my point. given that paul ryan was the nominee before, i think he would have had a great deal more cache than the others on that stage, absolutely. but would he have responded to the national mood on the right and center-right against the accomplishment. would he have followed the flag for this sort of brexit-type anger people have for trade immigration and stupid wars? would he have been that leader that trump was so effectively in the primaries? i think he would have been, because i think he fundamentally understands he saw what happened to his friend, eric cantor. he s seen what happened to other republicans in their districts. so i think he has i think he has a good sense of donald trump has a lot of very passionate, earnest, wonderful people supporting him. paul ryan has millions supporting him. again, 60 million people voted for romney/ryan. if right now you re in a tight congressional race anywhere in the united states, you have to make the case between asking paul ryan, you call paul ryan. in an event with mike pence, one trump supporter said she was, quote, ready for a revolution if clinton becomes president. let s watch the interaction here, especially from mr. pence, governor pence. one of the biggest things i can tell you that a lot of us are scared of is this voter fraud. our lives depend on this election. our kids futures depend on this election. and i will tell you, just for me, and i don t want this to happen, but i will tell you, for me, personally, if hillary clinton gets in, i, myself, i m ready for a revolution, because we can t have her in yeah, you don t don t say that. but i m just saying. no, you know, i m like trump. i might not speak for people here. but i m saying the truth here, guys. there s a revolution coming on november the 8th, i promise you. there he is showing some restraint michael. i thought it was impressive, he didn t join the demagoguery the woman was pushing for. what do you mean, revolution? armed conflict against the government? what are we talking about here? this sounds like second amendment stuff again, and he said, no. that was a john mccain moment. i m not going to go along with crazy talk. you win or lose an election by the way, i want to ask you about trump. do you think he s supporting is he supporting our democracy when he says, if i lose, it was rigged, if i win, i m going to put her in jail. what is it that is third world stuff that i grew up, phony governments that call themselves democracies and it s always a strong man that runs them. it s never another election. nobody ever gets taken out of office by election. but they call themselves democracies. people s republics and all that nonsense, because they don t really have a democracy. and here s trump saying, if i lose, it was stolen. if i win, i m going to prosecute her. that sounds like, you know, pakistan. ali bhutto gets hanged because he lost an election, or that indian politician or the same thing in latin america, if you lose, you go to jail. i get that, chris, and a lot of that is just rhetoric. was trump pushing that? why is he doing it? because, it works he s got to get his base. he s got to get his folks does that help american democracy? i understand that. but you have to look at it from the politics as he sees it. the interest defies the means. go ahead. mr. trump i ve asked him to withdraw, because i think mike pce could win. but when he gets angry, he angry at a media double standard that digs up stuff about him and does not dig up stuff we ve lived with the clinton mess. i covered the clinton piece for years. in the end of a campaign, tapes arrive, tax returns displayed, the podesta e-mails are not getting the coverage access hollywood went after donald trump? no, somebody on that team, some liberal on that production team, found, and hid, and selectively released a tape in order to maximize as ted cruz said, why did this not come out in may. the howard stern tapes get released. tax returns get leaked. the tax returns have not been released. no, they got leaked, the ones that got leaked. what s your point? he s angry about the rigged nature of the media is it rigged? the rig is that 95% of american media will vote for hillary clinton. they rig the election because of their political point of view? they rig the election because of the way that the media works. how does the media works? i m only thinking of one close election since nixon s where nixon s i ll talk about it at the end soft show, when nixon gave it up in 60. in 2000, when the supreme court intervened in our electoral process and gave it to w. strike that. when dan rather made a call in florida that kept the panhandle voters from coming out and delivering florida to gore. so you re telling me that the media roared at that and stopped that process. that they somehow influenced that election for al gore? yes, absolutely! he lost. he lost who lost? in the end, but it led to an illegitimacy to a bush presidency and fine, i don t think so. al gore gave a dramatic concession speech, gave it to him. should have gave it to him on the night of the november election, as nixon did to kennedy in 1960. because it wasn t decided yet. it was decided and it was decided when the recount was ran eight different ways to sunday. it s not true. and i m not an al gore fan, either. thank you michael steele. thank you, hugh hewitt, but i don t think you re right. this idea that the media gave it to w., the media gave it to reagan, the media gave it to george bush sr., you re talking about a pretty weak media if it s got this power. coming up, with donald trump threatening to put hillary clinton in jail, it smacks of something a dictator would say or relish. and now one of trump s biggest supporters says he needs to be more authoritarian. wow. after calling the clinton the devil and saying the election s rigged, the real winnaeeal lose election may be the rule of law. hillary clinton continues to be bolstered by big leads in the polls and now she s got a super surrogate. al gore returns to florida where he lost it all in 2000 to warn millennials not to throw away their vote on a third party candidate. the right message from the right guy. and the hardball roundtable is coming here this tuesday night. they ll tell me three thix you should know about this race that i don t know. finally, my election diary for tonight, pretty hard-hitting for october 11th, this tuesday night, just four weeks left in this campaign. this is hardball, the place for politics. something new has arrived. uniquely designed for the driven. introducing the first-ever infiniti qx30 crossover. infiniti. empower the drive. this is new and it s news. our new nbc news/ wall street journal poll now includes responses from voters after sunday night s debate. the result, hillary clinton is maintaining her lead, but there are small signs of life for the trump campaign. in a four-way matchup as of yesterday, clinton s lead is now 9 points, it was 11. the access hollywood tapes helped move it towards trump. apparently he only had a 7-point deficit in that one day that they could vote in this poll on that power of the debate itself. anyway, that suggests trump supporters were enthused by what they saw sunday night, but the clinton lead is pretty wide. wait. data just changed. now she s into disc sports. ah, no she s not. since when? since now. she s into tai chi. she found disc sports too stressful. hold on. let me ask you this. what s she gonna le six months from now? who do we have on aerial karate? steve. eve. steve. and alexis. uh, no. just steve. just steve. just steve. live business, powered by sap. when you run live, you run simple. kubo: i spy something stbeginning with. s . beetle: snow. kubo: no. beetle: snow covered trees. monkey: nothing to do with snow. narrator: head outside to discover incredible animals and beautiful plants that come together to create an unforgettable adventure. kubo: wow! narrator: so grab your loved ones monkey: don t even. narrator: and explore a world of possibilities. kubo: come on, this way. narrator: visit discovertheforest.org to find the closest forest or park to you. weand sustainability goals asool one of our top priorities.mental i definitely rely on pg&e to be an energy advisor. anything from rebates, to how can we be more efficient? pg&e has a number of programs, to help schools save on energy. when i see a program that fits them, then i bring it to them. with the help of pg&e we ve been able to save a tremendous amount of energy and a tremendous amount of money. we re able to take those savings and invest it right back into the classroom. together, we re building a better california. crooked hillary clinton, oh, she s crooked, folks. she s crooked as a $3- bill. okay. here s one. just came out, lock her up is right. no. that s donald trump last night. welcome back to hardball. that was him, calling for hillary clinton to be locked up, provoking a chorus of chants that become increasingly familiar in this campaign rallies, lock her up. maybe they should say, locker room him up. it comes after at the debate on sunday, he said he would direct his attorney general to appoint a special prosecutor to investigate hillary clinton, and that if he had his way, she d be in jail. let s watch. i didn t think i would say this, but i m going to say it. and i hate to say it, but if i win, i am going to instruct my attorney general to get a special prosecutor to look into your situation. because there has never been so many lies, so much deception. there has never been anything like it. and we re going to have a special prosecutor. you know, it is it s just awfully good that someone with the temperament of donald trump is not in charge of the law in our country. yeah, because you d be in jail. anyway, his legal specialist told the new york times, trump s pledge represents a threat to the rule of law. quote, he was suggesting that he would strip power from the institutions that normally enforce the law, investing instead, in himself. a move that could, would, chip away at the things that make america s democracy so resilient. michael chertoff, the former secretary of homeland security under president bush says, it smacks about what we read about in tin pot dictators and other parts of the world, when they win an election, their first move is to imprison opponents. don t we know that so well. and michael mukasey said, it would make us look like a banana republic. this comes after trump has repeatedly questioned our democratic process. i m joined now by time contributor, jay newton small, that s the magazine, and jeremy peters, reporter with the new york times. i want to start with you, jeremy. this kind of crackpot kind of politics, where if i win, i ll jail her, if i lose, it was rigged. well, that sort of makes everything sort of identical. i mean, there s no more arguments. it s if i lose, that s because it was rigged. if i win, she goes to jail because she deserves to go to jail. so it s not just the president, they decide everything. what the law is. right. this is so much deeper than just a misunderstanding of the law and american legal tradition, right? this is trump s impulse to not just defeat his opponents, but humiliate them and belittle them. it s not just enough for hillary clinton to be defeated. no, he s going to go after it and he s going to throw her in jail. but this is totally consistent with his other assertions that he would abuse the law. whether it s opening up libel law, which a president has no authority to do, or whether it was his attacks on this judge, who he falsely called a mexican. i mean, he has a history here of doing things that totally cross the boundary when it comes to the american legal system and precedent. what strikes me is the way he relished the idea of putting her in jail. yeah. if you listen to what he says, it s not like, i m going to do this, i would love to be a dictator, because then i could throw you in jail. that s an amazing statement. we ve gotten used to we re like the frog in the pot that keeps getting hotter and he keeps getting worse and he keeps listening to it. that s just a little worse than what he said yesterday. two days ago. but it s this impossibility of what republicans keep promising their angry electorate, right? they have this whole sector of the electorate that s super angry and they keep saying, we re going to repeal obamacare. and 64 tries in the house later, they ve never managed to appeal obamacare, because the government was built by the founding fathers to be a very deliberate process. it was built on the idea that rapid change was akin to tyranny. so you couldn t have rapid change. what is trump to you? what kind of a candidate is he? what is he offering here? he s offer himself as a tyrant, essentially. he says, i m going to produce all this massive, rapid change and jail my opponents and do all these things that s just and he can t. we won t be able to do anything, because our government is not built that way. it s almost nixonian but it s worse. i would defend nixon on this one. it s cruel nixonian, because there s an edge of bitterness here, and a desire to not just defeat, but to crush and humiliate. to win. anyway, critics say that trump threatens to erode rule of law. trump defender maine governor paul lepage told a local radio station today that this country needs someone a little more authoritarian like trump to enforce rule of law. sometimes i wonder that our constitution is not only broken, but it needs to we need a donald trump to show some authoritarian power in our country and bring back the rule of law, because we ve had eight years of a president that just is an autocrat. he just does it on his own. he ignores congress. and we re slipping every single day, we re slipping into anar y anarchy. well, nixon, infamously said, nixon was somewhat of a mixed bag. obviously, in the end, he deserved to be kicked out, but he did some good things. nixon said, when a president does it, it s legal. remember that great line? i am, by definition, the law. and that s exactly what donald trump would do. he decides the law. he doesn t have the traditional constitutional executive authority to enforce the law. he decides what they are and when they get opened up, right? and revisited. and revised. and what paul lepage was saying there was so striking, because it s this double standard that a lot of conservatives have. it s okay for donald trump to enhance the power of the executive branch and enforce and imply laws as he sees fit. but it s not okay for barack obama to do it. he s not charles de gaulle, either. there s no national claim. but ken langone was on very impressive what he said, a conservative republican business guy in new york, a very successful guy with home depot and everything. and he said, you know, even if trump loses 59-41, which might happen, maybe, that means 41% of the country, more than two in five, supported all of this. they bought everything he said. they bought the need for this they believe and they all believe the election was rigged. and they all believe hillary should have gone to jail. and that s a lot of people. 52% of republicans already believe that the election will be rigged, right? he doesn t need to say it over and over again. it s already there. and that is a racial sort of dog whisper in this case. people said that somehow african-americans stole the election from mitt romney, because there were precincts in pennsylvania that voted 100% for barack obama. and they said, that s impossible, it s just not possible, and therefore the election was stolen. and that s exactly what we were just talking about with trump s undermining of the legal system, right? he s undermining the american electoral system. i do know some people on the left, people i know well, who believe that ohio was stolen. from john kerry. anyway, thank you, jay newton-small, you know the election machines out there? diabold or whatever it s called. thank you, jeremy peters. up next, al gore hits the campaign trail for the first time for hillary clinton. he s very good. al gore has put on a little note. am i allowed to say that? when you see him for the first time and haven t seen him for years, it does grab you. he s telli people what he taught to tell, because after ralph nairt got 92,000 votes in florida and threw that election down there to w., there should be a lesson there that older people should remind younger people about, don t throw your vote away for somebody like gary johnson or jill stein if you really care who wins the election. it s not just a protest opportunity, it s the election of a president and elections have consequences. this is hardball, the place for politics. is it a professor who never stops being a student? is it a caregiver determined to take care of her own? or is it a lifetime of work that blazes the path to your passions? your personal success kes a financial partner who values it as much as you do. learn more at tiaa.org [music] jess: hey look, it s those guys. shawn: look at those pearly whites, man. [music] bud: whoa, cute! shawn: shut-up. jess: are you good to drive? shawn: i m fine. [music] [police siren] jess: how many did you have? shawn: i should be fine. jess: you should be? officer: sir, go ahead and step out of the vehicle for me. shawn: yes, sir. bu e ya, buddy. today, shawn s got a hearing,e ll see how it goes. good luck! so, it turns out buzzed driving and drunk driving, they re the same thing and it costs around $10,000. so not worth it. welcome back to hardball. that was president barack obama tonight, making a powerful pitch for hillary clinton, as the rp party continues to engage in all-out civil war, the democratic party is presenting, how s this, a united front. no longer that headline, democrats in disarray, that old favorite. hillary clinton enlisted her he was a hitter. bill clinton made two stops in florida. boy, somebody s done something with the prompter here, wrapped up an event in north carolina. and former vice president al gore, the last-minute closer, just called up from the bull pen, headlined an event in miami, florida, a place that has particular significance for al gore, because he lost the election there by less than 600 votes. anyway, here s gore. your vote really, really, really counts. a lot. you can consider me as an exhibit a of that proof. elections have consequences. your vote counts. your vote has consequences. well, it s been 16 years, believe it or not, since we ve seen the gore name on a ballot, but the clinton campaign hopes his appearance, al gore s appearance today in florida will remind millennials that every vote matters. something secretary clinton reminded miami radio listeners this morning. florida is the key. if we win florida, there s no way my opponent can win. that s why he s going to be in florida today. he knows that. and despite all of the terrible things he has said and done, he is still trying to win this election. and we cannot be come place sent, we cannot rest, do not grow weary while doing good. i m joined right now by the huffington post s sam stein and stephanie schriock, who is president of emily s list. my daughter said she thinks george foreman is the guy selling that hot plate, you know, the grill. she doesn t remember the rumble in the jungle and all of that stuff like i grew up with. and to me george foreman is this frightening foe of muhammad ali, the guy who could beat up anybody but it is a great grill. to young people, i m told. older millennials know about what happened in florida in 2000, the disputed election, how the supreme court came in and gave it to w. and all that and how gore just took it, like a man, i would argue, he had to do it for the country, okay, you won, i lost, even though i think i won. then there was the later al gore of an inconvenient truth, which was a hell of a documentary about the dangers of climate change. a lot of younger millennials know of him that way. in both cases, how did hillary clinton use him that way? he was great, because he talked about, every vote matters. this was the last day you could register in florida. they were doing big voter registrations. it s every vote matters. getting 92,000 votes. i think that s part of exactly, and we ve got to make sure that everybody s in that but the climate change i sort of asked about this. because my first response is, are we sure that millennials remember al gore? was my question. and it s the inconvenient truth, like so many of these younger millennials have watched it, they ve seen it they re going to be around in 70 years. and one of their top issues is climate change. do you know why florida matters on both coasts? it s so great to see, they re there, talking about the issues that matter to the state, that matter to the voters. and i think it was a really great day for them. sam? i thought it was a doubly symbolic stop, because florida was ground zero for the 2000 election and it s the state that s getting hit hardest by climate change and he resonates in both those changes. but in the end, i don t think she s going to lose this election because jill stein siphons off votes you re thinking that jill stein she s only getting 2% in her latest poll today. i don t think jill stein is going to cause you re not related to her? my great aunt jill, no? i think what s happening is she needs to find a way to the motivate her base. and what you re seeing now in some of these polls is millennial support is, in fact, moving to hillary. anyway, here s president obama tonight talking to college students in north carolina about a vision of america that hillary shares with him. let s watch this. i see young people all across this country, of every color and every background and every faith, who are full of energy and ideas and they re not going to be held back by what is, because they want to seize what could be, what ought to be. and i see americans of every background and every faith, who believe that we are stronger together. young, old, black, white, latino, asian, native american. folks with disabilities. men and women, all pledging allegiance to that same proud flag. that s the america i know. and there s only one candidate in this race who shares those beliefs and who s devoted her life to it. you know, there s a little mlk there, just a little? don t you think, stephanie? there s something in that bible he s extraordinary. that bible cadence that s just overpowering, great stuff. and in north carolina, a critical background state, i mean, this is a race, keep in mind, you ve got you know, this is a race or a state that barack obama actually lost in 2012, won in 08, lost in 12, here in north carolina, the democratic governor candidate is in the lead. but it s like, it s good energy there. all i can say is he has benefited more than anyone else from this campaign. you have two people who are just going at each other so has joe biden. andio biden, too. remember hillary when she was secretary of state. through the roof. but keep in mind, he has said, because of that, because of that, he can be an effective surrogate. if i were donald trump, i would be scared of that man we just saw. he s going to have crowds like you ve never seen. not just minority crowds, everybody. 85% of philly is going to vote democrat. and the burbs, this time around, are going to vote for i think the women in the suburbs and their husbands will be listening to the women and a lot of influence coming from that direction in this election. absolutely. emily s list. stephan stephan stephan stephanie schriock and sam stein. up next, we ve got tape from an interview i did with trump, i showed you a bit before. trump knew he had this problem, and he still ran. anyway, we ll be right back. i had frequent heartburn, but.my doctor recommended prilosec otc 7 years ago, 5 years ago, st week. just 1ill each morning. 24 hours and zero heartburn, it s been the number 1 doctor recommended brand for 10 straight years, and it s still recouse asirected. ok, so we drowned the fire. yep. stirred it. mm-hmm. drowned it again. mm-hmm. and now just feel if it s cold. yeah cool. [camera shutter clicks] [whistling a tune] smokey just gave me a bear hug. i know. i already posted i yfor the best deals on eltrs, travel, en shoes. so why not loans? visit lendingtree.com toda and get up to five free loan offers from competing lenders in under two minute then pick the best deal on mortgage loans, auto loans, personal loans, and a ole lot re. if you choose a loanthe lender pays us. that s how lendingtree®s completely free foyou. and it s so easy you can do it righfrom your phone, that s hright now.tree®s completely free foyou. when bks compete, you win. bp eineers use underwater robots, so they can keep watch over operations below the sea, even from thousands of feet above. because safety is never being satisfied. d always working to be better. welcome back to hardball. in 1998, that s 18 years ago, i sat down with donald trump and asked him about his political ambitions. now, trump predicted at that time that he would be too controversial to run for even governor, because of his history with women, which he d brought up and he compared it to bill clinton, unfavorably, i think he said. did you ever have a flicker, when you were taking a shower or walking to work or waking up in the morning when you said, donald trump, you ve won every battle you ve ever fought, why don t you run for government? why don t you run for president? people want me to all the time. what about you? i don t like it. why? can you imagine how controversial i would be? think about him with the women, imagine me with the women. jim simmons is a democratic strategist, and rick tyler is a republican strategist. let s talk about that, rick. you ve been in this battle with ted cruz. why are we seeing numbers that say that even though we know all about donald trump, because he s told us about his life, on that tape, why are they sticking with him, the evangelicals in the republican party? i think it s their hatred of hillary clinton. i don t think there s any doubt about it. it s a visceral reaction that it s dynamic. it s not that they re supporting trump some are, many, with uh be a lot of them are saying, that s the argument. their central argument is, we can t have hillary because we can t lose to the supreme court, we can t continue the policies of the barack obama administration. i runs what hillary clinton said about the supreme court the other day, if i were a conservative on these issues, i wouldn t want her on there either. she didn t say anything about the constitution, she went through her issues on the progressive side of things and said, i want a supreme court justice who wants what him or her to do in those areas. she basically laid down the fight. this is going to be about policy and philosophy. that s what i thought was so striking about not about who s the best judge. that s what was so the striking about that clip you just played. donald trump knows he has this history, and yet they still seem caught so flat-footed on how to deal with this that he has still not given a sincere apology. american voters love to forgive. but, during that debate, it was still locker room banter. what does that mean? it s dismissing it. i mean, i have spoken to some conservative women, women who consider themselves, you know, stalwart republicans, this was all over social media this week as well, who say they re done with the republican party. i don t know what that means, but they are viscerally angry about both trump dismissing these predatory comments he made, but also it wasn t b i love this word lewd language. of course it s different than it would be in a crowd, or a mixed crowd, used to say mixed company in the old day. of course it s different in some cases, but predatory. that was different than just bad words. so you have the message and the messenger. so, you know, trump has this baggage, he should have known and been prepared how to deal with it. but also, his message on how to once it came to light. a friend of mine, a well-known musician. but i don t quote him. he e-mailed me the other day and said, it was just words, not actions. he said he tried to pick up a married woman and pressured her to have sex with him. that s not words. that wasn t locker room talk with the boys, that was going after a married woman and brin bragging about it. one, if you want to run for president, it s not like you just wake up and want to do it. that leads to point number two, the peep that are good at politics surround themselves with people who tell you what their real problems are. they re not yes people. so how d you figure that out? i ve been around people who ren t that way. that s how you learn it. what you want is somebody to say, you know, i know why you want to do that, but if you do that, you re going to go to jail. how s that for a start. that s right, like, this is bad news for you. and i think he surrounded himself by people who didn t tell him no and didn t deal with his real weaknesses or vulnerabilities. do you buy the argument? rick, you know politicians. sometimes they are not calculating. they just are angry. do you think that scene at the white house correspondents when president obama just humiliated trump, do you think he decide ds to run that moment? some people say in that big documentary, in the front line documentary, pbs, they say that was the moment he said, i m going to take this guy on. and that would explain why he doesn t care about his past, because he wasn t thinking about his past. it could have been, but instead of laughing a about it, he seemed to be pretty upset about it. he protects himself, he doesn t like to be made fun of. one thing donald trump has spent a lot of time with his brand, the trump brand. people know his hotels and it seems like he put a lot of thought into it, but in terms of politics, it doesn t seem like he puts a lot of thought it s almost like he s an addict, he s looking for the next fix, the next adrenaline rush. that s why you get 3:00 a.m. tweets, why he s making news all the time. that s why he s good on the stump, too. he s working with the crowd and getting direction from the crowd and he throws like he said, you d be in jail, was that considered? was that what he meant? he said, i m going to say she belongs in jail. now they re putting out web ads and sending out e-mails that say. it wasn t just a heat of the moment quip, he s doubling down on it. here s meggy hastert, republican kelly ayotte, she launched a tv ad hitting ayotte for calling trump a role model. brutal stuff here. would you tell a child to aspire to be like donald trump? would you point to him as a role model? absolutely, i would do that. i would look her right in her fat ugly face. i moved on her like a [ bleep ]. i just start kissing them. when you re a star, they let you do it. you can do anything. do you treat women with respect? i can t say that either. would you point to him as a role model? absolutely, i would do that. in fairness to senator ayotte, who i have nothing against, it took her to get to she said, if he becomes president, then i can respect that. but that editing was brutal. and she s withdrawn the statement. immediately afterward, she put out a statement saying she misspoke. but it sort of encapsulates, it just encapsulates the bind that donald trump put republicans they re in a bind. in tough races. the roundtable is staying with us. up next, these three will tell me something i don t know. be right back. i m not a customer, but i m calling about that credit scorecard (to g)give it. re! it s free for everyone. oh! well that nice! and checking your scorewon . oh! (to dog)i m so proud of you. well thank you. geyour free cred scorecard atiscover.com. even if you re not a customer. lots of vitamins a&c, and, only 50 calories a serving. good morning, indeed. v8. veggiefor all. for our brand-new nbc news online poll shows most viewers of sunday night s debate show that hillary clinton won. 34% for hillary, 34% for trump, and one in five say neither one. that s a bit of an improvement for trump over his performance if the first debate. we ll be right back. sting may lo other treatment options that can work. learn how genomic testing is changing the way we fight cancer at cancercenter.com/genomics [baby talk] [child giggling] child: look, ma. no hands. chilen: i , j , k . [cycle bell rings] [indistinct chatter] [telephone ngs] man: hlo? [boing] [laughter] man: you may kiss the bride. [applause] woman: ahh. [indistinct conversatn] annouer: a full life measured ineats startwith theheright ones early on. car crashes are a leading killer of children 1 to 13. learn how to prevent deaths and injuries by using the right car seat for your child s age and size. bp engineersse robotic ultrasound technology, so they can detect and repair corrosion before it ever becomes a problem. because safety never being satisfied. and always working to be better. we re back with the hardball round tp table. tell me something i don t know. the poll came out of chicago and looks at millennials and highlights black and latino millennials look at third party candidates other than white millennials. support for gary johnson. more or less? much more than white. explain. what s your analysis of that? that white millennials are a little more conservative. they re more enamored with gary johnson. black millennials are with hillary. i spent a week in raleigh, north carolina. this was before donald trump s hollywood access video. but what i was struck by is these millennials hated both candidates. they hate clinton, they hate trump. what s the hillary problem? they don t trust her. she s not authentic. most of them were excited about be bernie in a way that young people were excited about obama in 08. but they are all going to vote and most of them are going to vote for clinton. they hate her do they have a name for ta? inauthentic, that they don t trust her. they were bothered by the e-mails. i think the bernie sanders arguments dushing the primary rick. suck. it s scorched earth tactics to take hillary down which won t work, but the people surrounding trump will form the most robust anti-clinton lucrative organization post election and they ll also work with the takeover of the republican party, blaming the republicans and blaming the establishment for what happened. thank you. when we return, my election diary for tonight, october 11th, with just four weeks to go exactly before the election. you re watching hardball. [burke] hot dog. seen it. covered it. we know a thing or two because we ve seen a thing or two. we are farmers. bum-pa-dum, bum-bum-bum-bum g new cars. you re smart. you already knew that. but it s also great for finding the perfect used car. you ll see what a fair price is, and you can connect with a truecar certified dealer. now you re even smarter. this is truecar. from the creative galaxy in my idea box. would you help me make art? each one of our journeys keeps us young hey, i have an idea! we ll never getlder. arty: go be amazing! amazing! announcer: give your cardboard box anotr life. but.my doctor recommended prilos otc 7 years ago,n, 5 ars ago, last week. just 1 pill each morning. 24 hours and zero heartburn, it s been the nuer 1 doctor recommended brand for 10 straight years, and it s still recommended today. use as directed our mission at clover is to highest quality dairy products. clover has relationships with 27 different family farms. the environment is who clover is. without it, we re nothing. pg&e s been a great partner. they re the energy experts, we re the milk guys. pg&e worked with clover on a number of energy efficiency projects to save energy every month. if you re part of the fabric of the community, you ve got to ensure that you do things right, environment included. learn how you can save at pge.com/save together, we re building a better california. election diary tuesday october 11th, 2016. it s no surprise to any one of you that i love american politics. it s not just the competition and the stakes for the candidates. it s for the power of our democracy itself. it s for what it is. how it s made this country great. we don t look at the presidency on the basis of policy alone or even philosophies. it s the person we get excited about. when we look at our presidents in modern times, fdr, harry truman, dwight eisenhower, jack kennedy, ronald reagan. they re the leaders our children and grandchildren will write about, wonder about, and, yes, argue about. there s one ingredient they ve shared, a respect for the country and the office, our constitution, the democratic system and where they have failed we ve kept notice of that, too. but they have loved our democracy itself. that s for sure. donald trump is making clear he does not. he relishes the notion of being a dictator, being able to throw his opponent, as he put it on sunday night s debate in jail. if he wins he plans to prosecute his opponent. if he loses, he plans to say the election was rigged. this isn t the talk of the locker room. it s the talk of third world dictators. you talk of hearing with the word democratic in those countries that shows up in the country s name there s no democracy and reality in those countries they re run by strongmen in the interest of strongmen in other words bull es. look, al gore accepted is defeat in the year 2000 even though he believed more people voted for him in florida even though we new he had 600,000 more votes than his rival. he did it because in addion to believing in climate change he believes in america. does anyone listening to donald trump in the past several months believe he would do what al gore did. that he would honor the institutions of our country even if it cost him closing this deal. even richard nixon who came within a single vote per precinct refused to challenge the election results because of what the resulting division would do to our country. does anyone believe donald trump would make a similar choice. and if not, why would you even think of investing in him the moral authority the american presidency? that s hardball for now, all in with chris haes starts right now. tonight on all in congress men, who likes congressmen? donald trump declares war. it is really sad that we don t have stronger leadership on both sides? 28 days out, the republican nominee turns on republican. i think it s important that we let trump be trump. tonight new poll numbers. a new down ballot reality and new concerns about donald trump damages going beyond the republican party. for me personally, if hillary clinton gets in, i myself, i m ready for a revolution because we can t have her in. yeah. don t say that. i m just saying it. plus more trump tape fallout. when you re a star, they let you do it. you can do anything. the conservative uprising against gop leadership for refusing to disavow trump. meanwhile, in florida. your vote, really, really, really counts. a lot. team clinton calls in backup to avoid repeating history and all in starts right now.
sydney watched as seven tons of fireworks blasted over the famed harbor. it lasted nearly 15 minutes. i always think i want to go to sydney after i watch that. hellie, i m stephanie gosk in new york at msnbc world headquarters. it s high noon in the east, 9:00 out west. while parts of the world are already into the new year, 12 hours from now, it s new york city s turn to reign in 2017. times square is ready. up to 2 million spectators expected to pack the area amid unprecedented security measures. adam reese is there for us. what does it look like out there? have you seen any of the sand trucks they have been talking about a lot this week? reporter: hi, stephanie. they re already gathering here in times square. they want to be in the front row to see that crystal ball drop and bring in 2017. as you know, stephanie. security very tight, the nypd out in force. some 7,000 officers to protect the 2 million revelers expected here tonight. they are already wanting people into the pens. radiation detectors, metal detectors, dogs roaming through the crowd. shoppers in the air. i want to introduce a group, kyle and erica and friends from rochester. you guys came all the way, all night long. why? to ring in the new year with the best city, new york city. reporter: and you did this last year. what brings you back this year? it was a great thing with my best friend, erica. it s very fun. reporter: erica, why did you come this year? just to have fun. bring in the new year with the big apple. reporter: i ve got to ask you guys, what are your new year s resolutions? number one according to a recent poll is lose weight. what do you have? i think to travel a lot. i really want to travel. reporter: okay. erica? to better myself and better my community. reporter: all right. happy new year to all of you. stephanie, as you know, there s no known threat from the nypd. they tell us no threats to the festivities here. so let the party begin. happy new year, stephanie. happy new year, adam. adam reese. thank you. also happening now, new reports of a russian hack targeting the u.s. according to the washington post, a malware code associated with a russian hacking campaign was found in a laptop at a vermont electric company. it s unclear what the intention was or when the code was entered into the community. the washington post is citing a senior obama administration official among its sources who sigh the russians did not actively use the code to disrupt utility operations. nbc s tammy leitner is in hawaii. tam kn tammy, you have new details on this story. reporter: that s right, stephanie. the burlingn electric department has come out and said they found a laptop, and on that laptop was a code associated with russian hackers. as you mentioned, they don t believe that was used to disrupt any type of operations, but it really shows the vulnerability here of our nation s great. and it also raises a big question, are the russians trying to infiltrate our grid? vermont s governor came out with a statement. let s go ahead and pull that up. he said vermonters and all americans should be both alarmed and outrage s one of the world s leading thugs, vladimir putin, has been attempting to hack our electric grid, which we rely on to support our quality of life, economy, health and safety. now, both government officials and the utility industry regularly monitor this grid. and one reason is that it s highly computerized. any disruption could be disastrous for both our medical and emergency services. stephanie? yeah, tammy. such a critical part of our infrastructure. nbc s tammy leitner, thank you. the washington post report on the vermont utility company came just hours after the president-elect praised vladimir putin for his decision to not retaliate against new u.s. sanctions. in a tweet, trump said, i always knew he was very smart. meanwhile, nbc confirmed the husband of trump s top adviser, kellyanne conway is on the short list to serve as solicitor general. conway is known in conservative circles for helping paula jones against president bill clinton. conway did not play a role in the trump campaign. new reaction from former member of the mormon tabernacle chair on why she resigned in protest to performing on inauguration day. here s what she told steve kornacki yesterday. a number of people who feel that going out to perform for this particular candidate expresses conflicted message. that might undermine the beautiful message that choir has for so many decades worked so hard to cultivate with so many people. it s not just america s choir. it s also the world s choir, too. for me this is a moral issue where i m concerned about our freedoms being in danger as time goes by. joining me now is francessca chambers, for daily mail do you mean and bob cusack, editor-in-chief for the hill. the president-elect has yet to respond to the washington post report on the spyware found on the laptop at the vermont utility company. do you think this may change how he views the intelligence reports? this is some of our most critical infrastructure. i do. i think that trump may pivot next week. he s going to get an intelligence briefing, and i think a lot of this is wrapped up in the election, and when some had said, well, the russians played a role or helped trump, it s a reflex from response from trump where he says, listen, i won and had nothing to do with russia. when he gets his intelligence people into office after january 20th and new cia director, that s when i think he ll pivot. but it s fascinating to see. i don t know this bromance between putin and trump, can it last. i think it s highly unlikely. francessca, president obama s sanctions against russia are the latest significant foreign policy decisions to come out of the white house in the last couple weeks. is that an effort by the obama administration to kind of go through a checklist before january 20th? well, there s no doubt that president obama is trying to shore up his legacy in the final days of his administration and potentially take actions like these sanctions that donald trump maybe wouldn t ta. donald trump was suggesting on twitter last night that he could potentially roll back those sanctions when he said that vladimir putin was right not to respond too hastily until he came into office to the obama administration s actions. of course, u.s. officials are saying it wouldn t make sense for donald trump to roll back the sanctions, because they were targeted at people they re saying are russian practiced operatives and officials who helped engage in the hacking. bob, how difficult would it be for trump and his administration to roll back these sanctions? politically, i think it would be very difficult, because these sanctions have been praised by both republicans and democrats on capitol hill. and there could be sanctions legislation in the new year that would override any veto for trump sanctions, very popular on capitol hill. i think it would be very difficult. it is interesting, though. we had the clinton the obama administration with hillary clinton as secretary of state trying to have a reset with russia. trump is trying to do the same. but as we all know, the reset didn t work. for the obama administration. did obama in some way kind of paint trump in a corner here, bob, with this with these decisions that he has made? i think so. but, i mean, obama is still the president. you can only have one president at a time and he s going to be president until trump is sworn in on the 20th. and a lot of democrats and editorial boards, including the new york times have said obama should have acted quicker while praising the actions. democrats definitely think that obama could have been and should have been tougher during the campaign on russia than he was. francessca, do you think there were political motivations behind this, that obama was looking to perhaps push trump s hand in the early days of his administration? well, again, it s clear that these are not actions that donald trump would have necessarily taken. if he were president. and once he becomes president, he said that he doesn t think that the russians necessarily did do the hacking. and so obama is trying to push him in that direction. and, again, take these actions that officials are saying that it would make sense for donald trump to roll back. you asked that about that a moment ago. hypothetically, he could, because they are executive actions and he will be the executive. but they re saying that it would make sense for him to allow a large tranche of intelligence operators from russia back into the country or to reopen these compounds for the same reason. and bob, is there a sign here that in the first 100 days of trump s administration that he could be facing some battles in congress, even within his own party? oh, yeah, definitely, without a doubt. he s going to be he said that transportation s a big issue. and a lot of conservative republicans are very nervous about a $1 trillion stimulus on russia. watch john mccain, the chairman of the senate arms committee, he s holding hearings on russia s involvement in the election. and john mccain certainly could be taking on trump on a number of areas. but trump will enjoy republican majority in the house and the senate, and but there will be fights, i think, with conservatives who don t like the trump agenda. and what do you think, francessca? do you think trump is ready for those fights? i think that he ll be fighting potentially with some republicans on these issues. but he ll be looking to find synergy with republicans on issues like albuquerque, one of the first things he says he will be getting ready of when he takes office. and he s going to be having a shorter inauguration parade, so he can get right to work on day one, he s saying. and bob, what do you see at this point after trump comes out this week and publicly praises putin? the reaction to that, he said, you know, great move on delay but v putin. i always knew he was very smart. what is your reaction to that kind of declaration? well, it s highly unusual. there s no doubt about it. and it really unsettles republicans. of course, democrats, as well, on capitol hill. but republicans who, like mccain, say you can t trust putin. now, there s no doubt about it, putin is smart. he s a very good chess player, when you think he s going to do x and retaliate against president obama s actions on sanctions, he pulls back. and i think that politically, that is a deft move. but for the president-elect to be praising putin. they said all went great. since that meeting, there has been a lot of tension between the white house and the trump transition team. though the trump trump s transition team was given a heads up on the sanctions. and francessca, what was the white house administration, obama s administration s reaction this week? they said they had no comment. i received a one-word answer from the white house, which was just no. and nothing behind the scenes from anybody else, right? no. no one else has said anything else in the administration at all, either. great. well, thank you both for joining us. we have francessca chambers there and bob cusack. happy new year to both of you guys. happy new year. happy new year. later, president obama s legacy, and the biggest threats to it. despite his record-high approval numbers. we look at what he accomplished and the effort under way to keep it from the coming overshadowed. later m crushing my cance. you are crushing it. thanks to breakthrough discoveries at st. jude children s research hospital. we freely share our research to help kids like isabelle across america. wanna help me cheer st. jude? yeah, let me get up on your shoulders. ok. give thanks for the healthy kids in your life and give to those who are not. donate now at stjude.org or shop where you see the st. jude logo. go st. jude. i m ready to go.. go st. jude. go st. jude. i just want to find a used car start at the new carfax.com show me used trucks with one owner. pretty cool. [laughs] ah. ahem. show me the carfax. start your used car search at the all-new carfax.com. as after a dvt blood clot,ital i sure had a lot to think about. what about the people i care about? .including this little girl. and what if this happened again? i was given warfarin in the hospital, but wondered, was this the best treatment for me? so i asked my doctor. and he recommended eliquis. eliquis treats dvt and pe blood clots and reduces the risk of them happening again. yes, eliquis treats dvt and pe blood clots. eliquis also had significantly less major bleeding than the standard treatment. both made me turn around my thinking. don t stop eliquis unless your doctor tells you to. eliquis can cause serious and in rare cases fatal bleeding. don t take eliquis if you have an artificial heart valve or abnormal bleeding. if you had a spinal injection while on eliquis call your doctor right away if you have tingling, numbness, or muscle weakness. while taking eliquis, you may bruise more easily .and it may take longer than usual for bleeding to stop. seek immediate medical care for sudden signs of bleeding, like unusual bruising. eliquis may increase your bleeding risk if you take certain medicines. tell your doctor about all planned medical or dental procedures. eliquis treats dvt and pe blood clots. plus had less major bleeding. both made eliquis the right treatment for me. ask your doctor if switching to eliquis is right for you. were you surprised that vladimir putin did not retaliate? you know, at one level, i am surprised. at the same time, it was a move. the russians hope to get everything they want from donald trump. merely by flattering the man. so far, it s been successful. that was congressman adam sheriff yesterday, reacting to vladimir putin s decision not to expel u.s. diplomats from russia after president obama slapped sanctions on russia that included an order for 35 russian diplomats to leave the country by tomorrow. let s bring in mark jacobson, senior fellow for international relations. former senior adviser to secretary of defense, ash carter. thanks for joining us. happy new year to you. thanks and happy new year to you, as well. let s start. first of all, what s your take on the way putin has reacted to these sanctions? is it really all strategic? or is this potentially an olive branch from the russian president? it s both. it s strategic and it s an al live branch. i think one of the short-sighted moves the obama administration made was not considering that not only was this too little, too late, but that both putin and trump would take advantage to continue to embarrass the administration. look, i m all for hard action against the russians for what they have done. but i just think this was handled in a way to open things up to allow, again, for further moves by putin and trump, but to make trump appear the diplomat, which is a very difficult thing to do. mark, didn t the obama administration need to do something about this? they definitely needed to do something. i actually think that the expulsion of the diplomats and the closing of the missions should have been done earlier in the year in response to the harassment of u.s. diplomats. the other pieces, this covert action discussion going on. one, it does need to take place, but it definitely needs to be happening without all the discussion, without all the leaks. the way covert action is successful, when you don t talk about it, you let it happen, let the cards fall and do it in order to prevent the russians from doing something in the future. i think the administration played this angle way too much, trying to get some good pr, rather than taking the root of making a few concrete steps and being very clear that this is unacceptable and looking to stop the russians from doing it in the future. speaking of covert actions, from the other side, we have some alarming news that vermont electric utility has confirmed found on one of its laptops, used by russian hackers. the washington post reported it first, citing a senior obama administration official. according to the report, the laptop was not connected to the electric grid. but even so, how concerned are you about this? doesn t this change the conversation? now we re just talking about politics. we re talking about critical infrastructure of this country. stephanie, i think the conversation should have changed months ago. frankly, it s not new for other adversaries. i am southecertain the chinese nonstate actors would like to do, as well. what this tells us is that we have to double down in terms of protecting our infrastructure. especially in terms of thinking about basic basic defenses, such as updating operating systems, ensuring that laptops that shouldn t be connected to infrastructure systems aren t. we re lucky in this case, it appears as though the vermont public utilities organizations and commissions took the right steps. they caught this early. the malware is there. they can take care of it. but i think this places a larger point. we have to understand that we are in the midst of a political warfare campaign and information warfare campaign, orchestrated out of moscow. it didn t begin with the election cycle and will not end with donald trump s inauguration. doesn t this news about this utility company take all of the political conversations that we have had and actually say, look, our national security is in jeopardy here, and both sides of the aisle, republicans and democrats, have to come together and figure out how we are going to protect this country from cyber attacks coming from anyone. absolutely. i think you re 100% right on this. it is not a partisan issue. both sides of the aisle have to under that it s not just these little acts themselves. not just the hacking of the dnc, not just the malware put on the computer system up in vermont. but that we are engaged in a campaign or need to be engaged in a defensive campaign that recognizes what the russians are trying to do. they are trying to drive changes in u.s. foreign policy. and if we don t understand their broader goals, we won t understand why they re undertaking these smaller operations. and it sounds from what you ve said, you disagree with the obama administration s timing on the sanctions, but don t disagree that sanctions really should have taken place in the first place. but if you look at the two compounds that president obama shut down and the 35 diplomats who were ordered to leave the country, why do you think they were specifically identified? you know, i m not sure whether it s because these compounds were used for leisure by the russian diplomats, and therefore you re punishing, saying to the russians, look, this is something you like to do. you re not going to be able to do it any more. or there were some initial reports there were intelligence activities taking place out of these compounds. if that s the case, you have to make the decision, do you let these activities go on, and then you re able to monitor them, or do you shut them down? either way, i think it s fine. as i said, i just don t think it s enough. i think that we have to have a longer-term concerted effort to address the russian political warfare campaigns. when you look at the united states and its history of attempting or at least allegedly attempting to influence presidential elections in other countries, does this country have a bit of a double standard here? i take a different approach. we re actually better at it than the russians are. famously, the united states helped intervene in the italian elections of 1948. keeping italy from going down a communist route. so there s actually a danger then when you talk openly about the covert operations that you open yourself to criticism of having a double standard. i want the united states to be able to engage very quietly in covert action. again, if we go out and talk about it and say this is what we re going to do to take down the russians, we really put ourselves at a disadvantage. so it s okay then to say we can do it but the rest of you guys can t. what i m saying is, we re going to do it, they re going to do it and we have to be better at understanding what they re doing so we can inoculate ourselves against the disinformation and we can understand what the goals are. that this is part of the political warfare that s existed long before the russian current russian state. so really ends up being a question of security at that point. mark jacobson, thank you very much. thanks and happy new year. same to you. coming up, what s it like to be an american diplomat living in russia? next, former u.s. ambassador to russia tells me how he was treated by the government and the russian media while living in moscow. discover card. customer service! ma am. this isn t a computer. wait. you re real? with discover card, you can talk to a real person in the u.s., like me, anytime. wow. this is a recording. really? no, i m kidding. 100% u.s.-based customer service. here to help, not to sell. g new cars. you re smart. you already knew that. but it s also great for finding the perfect used car. you ll see what a fair price is, and you can connect with a truecar certified dealer. now you re even smarter. this is truecar. but when we brought our daughter home, that was it. now i have nicoderm cq. the nicoderm cq patch with unique extended release technology helps prevent your urge to smoke all day. it s the best thing that ever happened to me. every great why needs a great how. signs of a malware code. the u.s. government says was used by russian hackers. reaction from moscow, next. welcome back. i m stephanie gosk here at msnbc world headquarters in new york. here s what we re monitoring. happening now, another russian hack targeting the u.s. this time within the system of an electric vermont utility. the hack first reported by the washington post comes just days after the obama administration leveled new sanctions against russia over its alleged cyber meddling in u.s. elections. let s turn to nbc s lucy cavanaugh who joins us from moscow. is the russian government commenting on this report? reporter: hey, stephanie. happy new year. great to be on with you. no comment at this point from the russian government or anyone here to this report. in fact, it hasn t even really made the headlines. a few local wire agencies reported it. said the washington post alleged this hack and said the washington post did not criteria any sort of evidence. we should be careful, of course, with this kind of story. because it does seem that there was one computer that was infected with this malware. so it s not necessarily the hacking of the vermont power grid. i want to read for our viewers the statement of the burlington electric department. they wrote, we detected the malware in a single burlington electric department laptop not connected, and this is important, to our organization s grid systems. we took immediate action to isolate the laptop and alerted federal officials of this finding. so it does seem like it s an isolated case. of course, russia is not known to comment to many of these hacking allegations. they have been flatley denying the allegations they have hacked the u.s. elections. we have seen very accusatory language from officials here in moscow. the foreign ministry spokeswoman trying to portray the obama administration as trying to sync relations between the two countries writing, and, quote, calling them foreign policy losers. and president putin decided not to retail ate. and the way that s played out, he is portrayed above the fray, not stooping to this diplomatic tit for tat and very much winning the news cycle domestically, certainly not abroad. while also throwing the ball into president-elect trump s court. obviously, waiting for that man to take office in hopes of better ties with the two countries. stephanie? yeah, i mean, it does sort of seem like putin came out as the hero this week to a certain degree. how are the people in russia reacting to this latest spat? is there hope that u.s./russia relations might improve? reporter: absolutely. definitely something we re hearing in the street. a lot of folks have absorbed the same narrative we re hearing from the kremlin. a lot of people aren t paying attention to the municipal using, but are hopeful of better relations under president-elect trump. takes a listen to what some told us on the streets of moscow. they are introducing sanctions illegally. they have no proof. nothing. i think with the new u.s. president, everything will get better. these sanctions won t influence russian politics. of course, they will influence us. they will become much better. i personally think that everything they introduce against us makes us stronger. obama is living. trump will come and everything will be all right. reporter: so there you have it. a lot of optimism for the trump administration, a lot of suspicion of president obama, a lot of the folks here simply reflecting the same kind of language that we saw from the kremlin. stephan stephanie? reporter: certainly remains to be seen. thank you very much. joining me now, msnbc contributor, michael mcfaul, former u.s. ambassador to russia. ambassador, thank you very much for joining us. happy new year to you. happy new year. let s start with these sanctions [ speaking in foreign language ] . as they say. thank you. i need to work on my russian. let s turn to these sanctions. and they were they were issued in part, according to the obama administration, as retaliation to diplomats in moscow being treated poorly there. you felt some of that mistreatment yourself personally. tell me a little bit about that. well, i did. when there was an uptick intentions in between our two countries at the beginning of 2012, our entire embassy felt harassment. sometimes it would be petty things, like the slashing of tires of some of my diplomats. at other times, there would be break-ins to apartments. and sometimes there would be following of our staff, including me, in a way that you knew that you were being followed in a way to create anxiety when you re at your soccer game or going to church. i read also that you had recently applied for a visa to go back to russia and you were denied. is that true? yes. that s true. back when the russians supported the intervened and eastern ukraine and supported insurgents there, the obama administration rightly, in my view, imposed very sanctions on some very senior officials. in the russian government and russian industry. therefore, they had their own list, and i m on that list. and that tit for tat back in 2014, that s what is different about the current set of sanctions, where mr. putin so far has not responded to what the obama administration just did a few days ago. well, let s turn to that decision by putin. it s being looked at in a couple different ways. one is slightly brilliant strategy on his part in light of a new administration coming in. and then the other side is that this is actually this genuine olive branch out to the u.s. how do you view his decision? well, i wouldn t use the word brilliant, first of all. most certainly, he has done some very uncommensurate things, sometimes, in the past, where he doubled down and tripled down in these tit for tats. you know, and i m happy he s not throwing our diplomats out. let s be honest about that. he s not disrupting their work and their families. i applaud that. i think that s a good decision. those people did nothing wrong. and that s why this kind of moral equivalence between what we did and what they did is wrong. the russians intervened in our presidential election. there has to be a response to that. our diplomats in moscow have done nothing wrong. having said that, the explanation is obvious. he s waiting for donald trump. president-elect donald trump just like those people that you are interviewing, your colleague interviewing on the streets of moscow. i would just remind everybody, this is a common cycle. at the end of the clinton administration, there was lots of hope for george w. bush. that ended very sourly. in the beginning of the obama administration, there was lots of hope that obama would change everything. and now we see how that s ended sourly. so i m a little skeptical that mr. trump is going to save the day and change everything in u.s./russian relations. let s wait and see. there was skepticism on the hill this week, asking. congresswoman lee, who sits on the homeland security committee. told us yesterday that putin will fire back. listen to what she said had to say. putin is a kgb. yesterday, today and tomorrow. what he is not doing publicly now in response to these sanctions, you can be assured they re probably covert actions, or that he is preparing to act at some time later. when he feels it is appropriate. right now, he s gaining public applause in russia for his demeanor and his tempered actions. that s not going to last. so, i mean, putin obviously has goals, and this is a strategy to reach those goals. what would you say his wish list, his top three things that he wants out of the u.s./russian relations? i m glad you framed it that way. he s not doing anybody any favors. by the way, i don t think much diplomacy is ever about doing favors for friends. he is doing this right now, this olive branch, waiting for president trump to take office, to receive concessions. at the top of his list is the lifting of economic sanctions that the obama administration and the european union put in place in response to his intervention in ukraine. that s at the top of his list. and if donald trump will do that, he ll throw a great party for him in the kremlin and say, you know, we are friends now. second, he would like to see the kind of recognition of what he s been doing in syria from the new administration. and third, in his dream of dreams, he would love for the new trump administration to recognize his annexation of crime i can t and ukraine. that s what he would seek and to not throw out 30 u.s. diplomats in return. there are a number of policies. something to say about all three. former ambassador, thank you very much for joining me. sure, thank you. happening now, tens of thousands of homes and businesses without power, following the america s strongest nor easter storm in nearly two years. the storm brought heavy know and powerful winds burying some towns under 2 feet of snow. they resulted in numerous car crashes and so far blamtd for one death. joining me now, msnbc meteorologist bonnie schneider. bonnie, what s the situation right now? stephanie, we re facing lake-effect snow in a different part of the area of the northeast than we saw the heaviest snowfall totals. there are some winter weather advisories into the western adirondacks. 4 to 6 inches. nothing compared to what we saw with the nor easter earlier this week. look at that. 27 inches, that s where it topped out. maine saw the worst with 25-plus inches. as we head to the south, plenty of rain in nashville and thunderstorms rolling through baton rouge into new orleans. this is the beginning of a stormy period, we re watching out for some nasty weather there and the potential for flooding. another storm in california. this one is a cold one with heavy rain at sometimes. we ll see that today in los angeles. tomorrow into arizona. the thunderstorm chance will continue as that pacific moisture comes through. working its way across the southwest. making for hazardous travel, especially in the mountain areas where we re likely to see snow. some nice weather for the rose parade, looking good for pasadena. your temperatures comfortable at 44 degrees with partly cloudy conditions. for the last day of the year, nice conditions across the country. temperature in new york, 41. that s what it will be at midnight in times square. very comfortable weather for this new year s eve and dry around new york city. not the case across the south, where we re looking at storms brewing and watching for that wet weather and stormy conditions in the southwest throughout the weekend. stephanie? thanks, bonnie. bonn bonnie schneider in new york. still ahead, president obama s push to save the legacy. what he s doing in the last weeks in office. next. in the next hour, we ll ask a member of the intelligence committee what her biggest fear is when it comes to computer hackers. a new gallup goal calls president obama the most admired president. joining me now, democratic strategist, daron johnson, regional director of obama s 2012 campaign. happy new year to you. happy new year, stephanie. you know, talk of obama s legacy really started during the campaign. in fact, obama encouraged support of hillary clinton to bolster his legacy. and he is still making a case for it. listen to what he said during his last weekly address of the year. poverty is falling. incomes are rising. in fact, last year, folks typical household income rose by $2,800. 20 million more americans know the financial security of health insurance. our kids high school graduation rate is at an all-time high. we have brought 165,000 troops from iraq and afghanistan, and took out owe bin laden. he really focused on jobs. i mean, president obama will go down in history as having the longest streak, 81 months of job growth in this country. he also talked about education, how the high school graduation rate is increased. and let s not forget what he s done around the affordable care act. now american people, some american people in this country have access to health care. but the one thing, stephanie, i think that will not necessarily overshadow, but is not really being talked about, is that president obama has been an ethical president. i mean, this has been a very scandal-free president. a president who has been very transparent, and i think that that s the reason you see he is not only admired, but has this tremendous approval rating amongst american people. they can trust him, and they always feel he can make the best decisions. ultimately, history will cast the final ballot that will determine president obama s legacy. i think that months from now, and probably years from now, when we enter into this trump administration, the american people will miss president obama, and i think ultimately, they will continue to define his legacy. well, theron, he certainly has his critics and in some ways, this was a repudiation of obama. the affordable care act has been called the spectacular failure. 43% americans want changes, a third want it repealed and replaced. this week going to capitol hill to prevent that from happening? do you think his efforts will work? president obama himself and people like me have said that it wasn t perfect. it wasn t the all-in, you know, be-all as far as fixing a broken health care system in our country. but we cannot negate the fact that 20 americans i m sorry, 20 million americans now have access to health care. and one of the criticisms that we have heard throughout the president s term, and also during the campaign with hillary clinton, donald trump, is his replace and repeal. and we saw on day one within the first week as president-elect trump met with his team and met with president obama, he sort of backed off this whole notion he was just going to continue to replace it. i think ultimately, yes, there has been people who have been concerned with some of the rate increases. but ultimately, i think that it s done well for the american people and it s very disingenuous, i think, to tell these 20-million-plus americans who now have access to health care and especially niece these young people who have been able to stay on their parents health insurance has been an ultimate failure. again, it s worked, it needs probably some adjustments. but ultimately, i think it would be a big part of his legacy in a favorable way. theron johnson, thank you very much for joining me. thank you. predictions for donald trump s first 100 days in office is next. my business was built with passion. but i keep it growing by making every dollar count. that s why i have the spark cash card from capital one. with it, i earn unlimited 2% cash back on all of my purchasing. and that unlimited 2% cash back from spark means thousands of dollars each year going back into my business. which adds fuel to my bottom line. what s in your wallet? i ve spent my life planting a size-six, non-slip shoe into that door. on this side, i want my customers to relax and enjoy themselves. but these days it s phones before forks. they want wifi out here. but behind that door, i need a private connection for my business. wifi pro from comcast business. public wifi for your customers. private wifi for your business. strong and secure. good for a door. and a network. comcast business. built for security. built for business. i think we ought to get on with our lives. i think the computers are complicated lives are great. the whole, you know, age of computer has made it where nobody knows exactly what s going on. we have speed, we have a lot of other things. but i m not sure you have the kind of security that you need. that s donald trump, reacting earlier this week to the news that president obama is ordering new sanctions against russia in response to its interference in the november election. let s bring in robert drenham, msnbc contributor. and a contributor involved in two presidential transitions. robert, let s start with you. what does trump even mean, get on with our lives? i don t know what he means. i think what he s trying to say, let s forget about the past and focus on the future. let s forget about the fact that there was a lot of fake news out there and focus on the future. let s forget about wikileaks and the fact they happened into the dnc. i think that s what he s trying to say. there say problem with that. the problem with that, we are a democracy, and we are for the people and we reserve the right to know if, in fact, a foreign policy or foreign entity hacked into our systems to influence an election. you just can t get over with our lives on that. that is something fundamental to who we are as a country and we reserved the right to get to the bottom of it, and to strike back at a time of our choosing, when appropriate. so that s what s getting on with our lives i think means, at least for me. peter, let s turn to the transition. it s really been an incredible couple of weeks. how unusual is it for obama to be making all these major diplomatic moves now? and how effective can he really be this late in the game? it s been an unusual transition. at least overtly. covertly, that is to say, behind the scenes, transitions often very messy and often very acrimonious. but this one is played out on the front pages of both newspapers, television and twitter. for quite some time. i think obama is a bit like the kid who has just found out he s going to leave the neighborhood, so he s gone on to the playground and given the the bully a slap. that would be putin. and is going to leave. and so i don t think there will be any really lasting effects. besides, most of what president obama has done can be reversed. or altered by trump, relatively quickly. well, he slapped putin, and he kind of gave netanyahu a kick in the shins, didn t he? he did do that. and so, again, i think it s this question that a lot of people have, why didn t he do a lot of this after he won re-election? because after he won re-election, he had no further electoral goals. he had literally the same power then as he has today. so a lot of us are wondering, why didn t he do it four years ago or even after the mid terms two years ago? there s a time in question about these sanctions, as well, robert. why do you think that the obama administration waited as long as it did? i don t know the answer to that. but i can say from a political standpoint, it s actually a stroke of genius. what he did is put republicans on the defense, coming into january, by saying, okay, listen. if you disagree with what i did, then change it. and if so, justify your change. justify your change as it relates to russia, are you really playing footy with russia, and if so, what are you going to do different leave. and you know, justify the decision if you choose to change it, when it comes to israel. so i think what he s doing is more political than anything else. and i also think what he s trying to do is trying to preserve his own legacy so he can walk out of 1600 pennsylvania avenue by saying this, is what i did. i stand by it. i can look myself in the mirror by saying that this is something i think is very important, not only for the country, but also for my legacy. and i agree with robert. i think on the latter point, this is obama s attempt to try to recreate and redefine his legacy. he in the last stages of this administration at a time when the world is fairly uncertain. but don t you think he teed up on an opportunity here, coming out even with his own tweet, saying, great move on delay. i always new he was very smart. you re talking about trump vis-a-vis putin. i think it could be said about obama, handed putin an extraordinary touchdown. i mean, putin is a master at judo. that s one of his practices. and in judo, you take the energy from the opponent and you turn it against them. and so by putin not responding to the expulsion of their diplomats by sending out ours, i think he s masterfully manipulated the news media as well as public opinion in a way i don t think the obama people expected. robert, what are your predictions for the upcoming year? i think president trump is probably going to have a win on infrastructure. i think he s probably going to reform the corporate tax code. and then transition to more thornier issues, vis-a-vis, foreign policy where he s not going to have a lot of republican support, ironically, on some of his ideas he wants to implement. robert and peter, thank you both very much and happy new year to you. same to you. coming up at the top of the hour, as celebrations around the world ring in 2017, what new york is doing to make sure times square is safe for millions of people. sometimes when brushing my gums bleed. no big deal. but my hygienist said, it is a big deal. go pro with crest pro health gum protection. it helps prevent gum bleeding by targeting harmful bacteria on your gums. left untreated, these symptoms could lead to more serious problems including tooth loss. gum crisis averted.
fire for, quote, unmasking trump officials. let s make a deal. the vice president on capitol hill selling a brand-new health care plan. encouraged by at least the idea, intrigued by the idea. while our own reporter talks exclusively about president trump about his plan. plus, going nuclear. democrats have the numbers and prom promise to filibuster neil gorsuch while they vow to change senate rules that will forever change the game. this is going to haunt the senate. itis going to change the judiciary and it s so unnecessary. i can t believe we are still fighting for it, we are honoring it today. it is equal payday. we have brought in an all-star, all woman panel to break down today s news. i want to begin with the latest bit of smoke surrounding the russian government and trump associates. this time, there s evidence of fire as well. i want to get to the panel in a moment. first, let s start with nbc s chief foreign affairs correspondent, andrea mitchell. andrea, what do we know? good morning. documents show carter paige, a policy adviser to the trump campaign met with and gave documents to a russian spy in 2013. an energy security consultant, he confirmed he is, indeed, the unnamed man identified in a federal complaint targeted by and met with a russian intelligence agent, posing as a bank executive in new york four years ago. paige who is not a defendant in the complaint and unaware he was a spy was identified by buzz feed and says he gave basic immaterial information and publicly available documents. the connection to russian intelligence three years before the association to trump is the most up to date of spies in trump s circle. in an interview, paige called allegations he had secret talks with russian officials on trump s behalf, nonsense. i think it s really just a litical stunt from the get go. reporter: all of this amid a new report the top trump campaign contributor, eric prince, founder of the defense contractor formerly called blackwater held a meeting with an associate of vladimir putins. it was held on an estate owned by arab yan royalty. it was arranged in december by a crowned prince during an unannounced trip to new york where he met with flynn and kushner. the ties to donald trump are impeccable. he visited trump tower during the transition. his sister, betsy devos, a donor and now in the trump cabinet, the secretary of education. prince is close to steve bannon, a chief executive on breitbart radio show. eric prince, the founder of blackwater, thank you for taking time today, i know you are busy. reporter: prince is controversial. four guards convicted in the death of iraqi civilians. prince barred from receiving defense contracts. overnight, the white house said we are not aware of meetings eric prince had no role in the transition. u.s. officials told the washington post the fbi has been looking at the latest meeting as part of the broader investigation into trump contacts with russia and moscow s attempts to alter the u.s. election. stephanie? thanks. i want to bring the superpanel in, nicolle wallace, msnbc analyst and communications director for president bush. tina brown, founder and ceo of tina brown live media, greta who worked on the clinton and obama white house. ladies, good morning. nicole, i want to start with you. a trump official said it is ridiculous, ridiculous this eric prince argument that he would have been meeting with a prince, representing the trump team whachlt is your take on this? i mean, we learned from a book that came out in january that backwater was unofficially working on behalf of the trump transition team, trying to help them figure out things like foreign affairs, possible secretary of state picks. what do you think? we have to look at the story the way it is processed beyond news rooms. we are following every beat. it s certainly another deeply suspicious piece of the puzzle, but i think the reality for the trump white house is that every day, i think he s been there 80 some odd days, every day there s a new headline on this russia-trump team coordination collusion. now the lane in which they are driving isn t whether there is or isn t some sort of net that ties together the trump campaign and the trump orbit and russia and russian agents. it s how high up does it go? i think theact tha the lane has changed, we are not talking about whether or not eric prince knew team trump, we know he did. his sister is in the cabinet, he was a surrogate and donor to the trump candidacy. what we want to know now is how high up did his coordination and his contacts with the russians go? were they signed off on the highest levels or beneath that? the frame of the debate shifted so dramatically, that is the white house s biggest problem. tina, without knowing specifics, when you look at this, someone like eric prince, yes, blackwater meets with foreign officials all the time. it s what they do. do you see a scenario with an arab prince meeting with an official without having anything to do with russia, with team trump? no, i think it s highly unlikely. clearly, he was acting as some kind of informant. that does happen all the time. i think what is truly fascinating here is we know we have a president who is unideological who invited his foreign affairs concepts from watching soundbytes on fox news. what is this tie with russia? this is the biggest question. is it economic? i suggest it is financial background. it s not about trump sitting there, i m going to form a grand bargain with putin. it s clear there is some deep tie between trump and russia that may go back a long time. we don t know this yet. all of it seems to point to some ba background. when you think about what seemed to be mysteriously present at the airport in charlotte, then las vegas when trump was campaigning. too many of these coincidences. i m following the money right now. okay. in terms of following the money, how about following the people. i want to talk about carter paige for a moment. the trump team can say, well, he was only part of the trump campaign for a brief period of time. carter paige, himself, changed his story a few times in 2013, did he or did he not meet with a russian informant? i want to share a conversation he had with chris hayes. did you meet sergey kislyak? did you talk to him? i m not going to deny i talked to him. you did talk to him. i will say, i never met him anywhere outside of cleveland, let s say that much. the only time you met him was in cleveland? i may have met him, poib what might have been in cleveland. i mean, what gives here? that conversation was obviously whether or not he met with russian ambassador during the rnc, but, what here is actually the smoking gun? we know it s bizarre. we know they give answers and change those answers and spin those answers. what, here, is the real, real issue? i think the real issue is that we are learning, day by day, extensive contacts between trump associates to people related to trump, trump on the campaign, trump folks on the campaign and russians and i think what makes people really suspicious is given what s happened, why don t they just tell us themselves? we are getting leaks. the fbi is investigating. it s odd that day by day, drip by drip, we are learning more. the trump white house should let us know. the fact they don t, the fact that none of this information comes from them shows that it seems like they have stuff to hide. they don t want this information. carter page was hanging out with russian spies. we are learning about this in april. it strikes me as odd that this is the trump white house is blocking investigations instead of trying to support them. that makes them, honestly, look like they were colluding with russians. i want to talk about a different side of this. these reports that formal national security adviser, susan rice was behind the unmasking of names collected in international surveillance. there s a quote that said the standard for senior officials to learn the names of u.s. person s collected is that it must have some foreign intelligence value. this is standard they can apply to anything. this would suggest the unmasking request is within the law. if it s legal, is it an actual issue here? i don t know if it is within the law or not because we don t have it put in overall context. i don t know if this was the only thing she investigated and she could semi identity fi within the come pain or not. we have sug nif can t evidence. it s unusual to me, but i don t look at the intelligence reports all the time. i m hoping we get more information put in context. what i find somewhat troubling is susan rice was asked on pbs and her response was coy. this is about two weeks ago. it s only because i have pieces of this puzzle. i have pieces of the puzzle because this is being poorly investigated and rolled out. there are reasons because of classified information. it didn t help that chairman nunez has a circus-like race to the white house. he started the night before with a late night trip to the white house and that whole thing that that seems bizarre to me. why did he go alone? why, when he got home didn t he call his ranking member? why didn t he tell the ranking member, other republicans on the committee? he has made this so bizarre to make me suspicious. i don know what susan rice did was popul or not. i have snippets of wt she d and the snippets alone don t give me enough information. it gives me enough information to want more, find out whether she did something legally or illegally. there s certainly a big enough problem here and what s disappointing is our representatives are not investigating this, i think, to the satisfaction of the american people. one thing i do know is that president trump, he don t want to talk about russia. he does, though, want to talk about health care, which is a surprise. he says he s not finished with health care reform and can still get republicans to agree to a deal. kristen welker got a sit-down with the president last night in the ovl office. what more did he tell you? i thought it was off the table. he said on that friday, the vote day, vote yes or i m moving on to tax reform. now he s changing his tune. reporter: this was an impromptu meeting. you are right, that was the headline. he said not only is he not done with health care reform, everyone misunderstands what is happening. these negotiations are ongoing. he s a businessman and this is how he approaches these things. i asked about his meeting with senator rand paul over the weekend. the two went golfing. rand paul came out with an optimist ick note saying it went well. the president echoed that. we talked specifics. this notion that he s not engaged in the details of the discussions is false. he is involved in the nuance. when i asked if he thought he could work with democrats, if that was the best way to get a deal done, he said the reality is there are a lot of tensions and relations are very raw, particularly over this big fight with his supreme court nominee, judge neil gorsuch. he thinks the best chance for getting a deal done may be with conservative republicans and moderate republicans. we know the vice president, yesterday, was meeting with both groups trying to strike some type of deal and compromise. one republican source saying that might include allowing states to waive some regulations if they can prove they are lowering the cost of premiums. this is something that seems to be moving forward. as we know, getting health care reform done is an up hill battle. this president acknowledging it s going to be tough but he s committed to getting it done. steph? a nice compromise, punt it to the states to make them do the work. on the panel to weigh in, tina, should we look at it as a positive president trump even wants to play ball? a few days ago, he said let s wait until obamacare blows up, then we ll address it. for the sake of the american people, shouldn t we be happy maybe things are going to move forward here? not if he s compromising deals with the freedom caucus because, frankly, what they are suggesting is pre-existing condition goes out the door, which is really an extremely popular thing with america. the politics of health care have changed a great deal. the notion everybody wants to get rid of the things obamacare had is not true. people are going to get upset. people in red states that voted for trump are upset with the notion they are going to lose these things. as far as trump is concerned, winning is all he wants to do. he wants to declare he made a deal. it doesn t matter who is thrown out thewindow, whatever he said on the campaign stump with whatever is in the bill. he wants to make a deal thachlt is worst. it would be far better if it stayed as it were. if president trump is just looking to get a deal done and concerned less with what s in it, can he get moderate and conservative republicans to agree given they have such different goals? the trump supporters who voted for him who want something different from what the freedom caucus does. two things, the wrong frame around the failure if he pause it that it blew up because he spent too much time with conservatives. it blew up because of the incompetence of the white house. the president didn t know what was in the bill. he couldn t sell it because he didn t know which pieces would please which wings of either party. i, personally, don t think he knew where his own coalition of voters would be upset. i have been talking to trump voters since before inauguration. i interviewed three or four dozen of them. obamacare has a bad brand. not a single one that is on obamacare was unhappy with it. i think that it blew up, not because of ideological politics, but because of staggering incompetence with the way the white house went about, we call it sausage making. this is the ugliest legislative process i have ever seen. so much for the genius of pa ryan? ihink he got swept up in a messy process. i put the blame on the house. you can. greta, you can blame the house. i worked in the white house, but i have never seen something so half baked. no support for any piece of it. people can blame paul ryan let me finish. let me finish, please. the way i saw it unfold is the president was reasonably disengaged with it. during the campaign he said he had a plan. i never saw that plan. it became outsourced to the speaker of the house and the republicans. the speaker of the house said he had the votes. president trump was unsuccessful at being the closer, the primary generating force was in the house and they didn t have the votes. the president couldn t close the deal. i saw this bill as more originating out of the house, not coming from the president, although he promised a bill. i think that s where it fell apart in the house. all right. ladies, we have to take a break. you know what s on my mind right now? i just learned a lot. can you believe that women still make 79% of what men make? i couldn t have a better panel there. it s a problem. makes no sense. thank you, andrea mitchell, tina brown. do not forget this, tomorrow, tina s eighth annual women in the summit kicks off. hillary clinton, prime minister justice trudeau, nikki haley, scarlett johansson and women all over the world. it is going to be quite a few days. stick around. you are in the rain with me, you are going to get extra credit for it. republicans move closer to deploying the option of judge neil gorsuch. are we about to witness the end of the senate as we know it? we ll be back with the all-star women s panel celebrating equal payday, live from washington, d.c. fun in art class. come close, come close. i like that. [ all sounds come to a crashing halt ] ah. when your pain reliever stops working, your whole day stops. awww. try this. for minor arthritis pain, only aleve is fda approved to rk for up to 12 straight hours with just one pill. thank you. come on everybody. aleve. live whole. not part. are you one sneeze away from being voted out of the carpool? try zyrtec® it s starts working hard at hour one and works twice as hard when you take it again the next day. stick with zyrtec® and muddle no more®. we lost garland because of the majority leaders unprecedented blockade and republicans will lose on judge gorsuch because we are doing something we think is reasonable and asking he be able to earn 60 votes. this morning, snatd republicanare closer than ever to invoking the so-called nuclear option because enough senate democrats opposed their nonsupport of his. senate republicans are threatening to go nuclear by changing the rules, meaning only a simple majority will be needed to approve gorsuch instead of 60. it certainly is the end of bipartisanship on judges, which across the aisle will be a thing of the past. all right. back with me, my personal dream team. senate minority leader, chuck schumer says it is reasonable to want, to believe that neil gorsuch should get 60 votes, but we are living in a time of resist. it is fair for chuck schumer to say you have to get some support? come on? listening to the clips, i have to say, people arguing that this is the end of bipartisanship when they wouldn t let garland have a process, testify anything, few would meet with him? i think the reality of this is this is a lifetime appointment. it s a really important decision we are making. past nominees have been able to get 60 votes, clear 60 votes, no problem. the issue here isn t changing the process, it s getting a nominee that everyone can agree on. some democrats won t agree, some republicans won t agree. the broad center can agree on someone who does not have the decision making record to the right of scalia. i know judge gorsuch has a nice family, but his decision making on hobby lobby and elsewhere is more conservative than justice scalia. don t change the nominee, change the process. going nuclear is not going to get you a more center nominee. do you agree with lindsey graham, by democrats filibustering and going nuclear, the next thing you know, we are going to be getting extreme, extreme candidates from the right and left in the future? i hope not. you have to get to a place where you feel what happened to garland was terrible and justice gorsuch deserves to be on the bench. he s qualified and reasonable. he s intelligent and this is a republican president who won the election, replacing a conservative justice with a person of his choice. that s what happens. elections have consequences. i think this is more about, you know, how broken everything is. in past generations, it would be perfectly normal for a republican to appoint someone already, you know, a sitting justice. this isn t harriet myers with a giant question mark behind how they might rule. this is someone that should be familiar to people on both sides of the aisle. the politics are so broken, most people don t know the difference of going nuclear. it s a distinction known only in news rooms and political junkies. i understand the desire to take a hide for the hide of garland. i don t think it s going to help them. if donald trump is there and does it with 51 votes, it certainly lowers the standard in his mind. i only need 51 next time. greta, weigh in on what john mccain had to say. can i say, i totally agree with nicole on this. it s a total grudge match. you know, look, the senate, including senator john mccain and lindsey graham and the democrats, schumer, this is a self-inflicted wound. they are all moaning and groaning about how the senate is changing forever. it s changing forever because of them. this is a grudgement. garland should have had a hearing. now the republicans are getting a pay back. they are changing the senate. well, don t blame us. okay. we know that paybacks, you know, come we understand why people want to have paack. if they go nuclr, does it not change thetructure of the senate that basically it s going to look like the house? yes, of course. not the four of us who have done it. it s those moaning and groaning about it in the senate. they have done it themselves. wait until the next appointment. right now, it is a conservative gorsuch for a conservative scalia. next time, it s more likely to be a conservative appointed by president trump or a republican for a liberal side. that s when the war is really going to break out and see the impact of the nuclear option is going to have an impact. you know, all the, you know, all the moaning and groaning from the u.s. senators about how things are changing, they can look in the mirror on this one. i would agree. what they should do and what they should have done, trump should have reached out to democrats and republicans in coming up with a nominee. there are plenty of nominees many democrats could have gotten behind. a conservative list. no one has to go nuclear. they don t have to do this. but president obama didn t reach out to the republicans. that s not true. that is not true. hold on. this is a constitutional power of the president of the united states and it was deeply offensive, i thought, when the republicans played that game on garland. they should have given him a hearing, if they didn t like him, vote know. they did the process. they look back in history when democrats did it to them that s the problem in washington, they say the other guy did it. there is no sense of leadership where they want to stop this ugly cycle of grudge and getting everyone a even and trying to win. this is the president of the united states choice to put on the court. it s gotten deeply political and the judges are getting dragged right into it. you knew he was going to pick someone really conservative. think about all those conservatives who held their nose, looked the other way when the access hollywood tape came out. we are going to get the supreme court nominee. that s what they did. they didn t have to break the filibuster rules to appease their base. the reality is president obama did find a nominee, merit garland who orrin hatch praised and basically lobbied the senate to get past. he found a consensus nominee many republicansnd democrats supported in the past. i think that s what trump should have done. the reality is i appreciate no one thinks he would do that, i get that. if you are in a path to break the rules, own the fact you should, for a lifetime appointment, there should have been some discussion and there was none. don t break the rules. no one is forcing the republicans to break the rules over there. people are picking and choosing what judge gorsuch said. he said row versus wade is the law of the land. that surprised many conservatives. number two, don t forget, this is a different bench, a supreme court bench, but he was voted by a number of democrats to the u.s. court of appeals for the tenth circuit. they thought he was good enough for the tenth circuit. what happened between the tenth circuit and now. if it s a different standard, why do we have a lesser standard for the court of appeals, i can t figure that out. it is an incredibly important job. it s hard for me not to think most of this is politics, money over whether you are a republican or democrat. we have to take a break. you know what is hard for me to believe? it is hard to believe today is exactly one month from president trump s saturday morning tweet-a-thon claiming president obama wiretapped him. how about that, one month. think about what you have been doing the last 30 days. we are taking a break. next, the house intelligence committee holds a late night meeting for the first time since members on both sides called for chairman nunez to step down. what was discussed. a member of the committee joins me next. we will be back with the all women, all-star panel. today is equal payday. take a look at this. this one kills me. there are currently more ceos of s&p 1500 companies named john and david than women. did you hear me, than women. more than 50% of people graduating are women but more people are named john and david than women. how about that? we are live in washington, d.c. it is raining. that s not going to stop us. so tell us your big idea for getting the whole country booking on choice hotels.com. four words, badda book. badda boom. let it sink in. shouldn t we say we have the lowest price? 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(dog barking) anyone can dream. making it a reality is the hard part. from the b-2 to the upcoming b-21, northrop grumman stealth bombers give america an advantage in a turbulent world. and we re looking for a few dreamers to join us. the house intelligence xhit tee is meeting for the next steps in the russia investigation. this is one day after the committee held the first meeting with both sides of the aisle. the top democrat adam schiff called on devin nunes to resign. they will introduce witnesses in the coming weeks. joining me, a democrat. take us behind the scenes. how did the meeting play out? first time everybody sat down since adam schiff called on nunes to step down. did you even cover russia? no, it was totally unrelated to russia. it was like nothing happened. the hearing went on, we listened to the briefers and people moves in and out of the committee. it was light on the republican side. it was a little surreal, actually. a little surreal? was it a legitimate meeting, seeing that we have seen both nunes and adam schiff aggressively, nunes defending himself and schiff going after him and everybody sat down like it was hunky dory in the room? we were being responsible, asking questions of the briefers that were there to brief us and there wasn t exchange of conversation or words among the members. most of this will play out, i think, over the next few weeks. all right. on the russia front, devin nunes did speak to reporters saying there s a witness list, paul man fort, paige, flynn. do you think they will testify publicly? i don t know if that s been determined yet. for some of those witnesses, they may have depositions prior to being held in a public setting to be questioned. i don t think that s been defined yet, or aeed to. the democratsave also submitted their list of witnesses that they want to have questioned as well. there are reports turning the subject slightly. president obama s national security adviser, susan rice asked for trump officials to be unmasked. do you know if it happened? if so, was it improper? it s important to clarify whether it happened or not. this doesn t support, it won t back any of those wiretap claims that president trump made. it s separate from that. that s correct. the wiretap claims that have been talked about for a month had no relevance whatsoever. it was a falsehood. director comey made it clear there was never wiretapping of president trump. there s a whole process you have to go through with a court of law and a judge has to find probable cause that a crime has been committed. none of that happened. in terms of masking, versus unmasking, this is another wild goose chase the republicans are sending us on. it s not relevant. all u.s. persons are masked. all the names that devin nunes saw were masked. there are occasions when persons can be unmasked. they can be unmasked by the fbi or by the national security adviser. that happens just typically if there is an expectation that it has some national security implication. so, if you went back in history and looked at the national security advisers, you would probably find, on occasion where u.s. persons were unmasked. if there was a belief that it was impacting national security or had some criminal application. all right. thk yoso much for joining us this morning. i appreciate you sharing your thoughts. sure. next, ivanka trump and her role in the white house, set to address town hall with ceo s in the white house. our panel is set to weigh in. look where we are live in washington, d.c. 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[and her new business: i do, to jeanetgo. jeanette was excellent at marrying people. but had trouble getting paid. not a good time, jeanette. even worse. now i m uncomfortable. but here s the good news, jeanette got quickbooks. send that invoice, jeanette. looks like they viewed it. and, ta-da! paid twice as fast. oh, she s an efficient officiant. way to grow, jeanette. new. get paid twice as fast for free. visit quickbooks-dot-com. everything your family touches sticks with them. make sure the germs they bring home don t stick around. use clorox disinfecting products. because no one kills germs better than clorox. whoa that s amazing. hey, i m the internet! i know a bunch of people who would love that. the internet loves what you re doing. .so build a better website in under an hour with. .gocentral from godaddy. type in your idea. select from designs tailored just for you and publish your site with just a few clicks-even from your. .mobile phone. the internet is waiting start for free today at godaddy. time to talk money, power and politics. right now, you are looking at live pictures of the white house. the president is hosting a town hall with ceos discussing the american business climate. ivanka trump is scheduled to speak with the president in the next hour. it s quite a morning. my panel is back. nicole, greta and nira. greta, i want to start with you. ivanka trump now in official capacity, she is addressing ceos today and put out a tweet saying #equalpayday is a reminder women deserve equal pay for equal work. we must work to close the gender pay gap. this is a great sentiment. sarah huckabee said we should celebrate ivanka is in the white house. is this the moment where she becomes accountable? she called herself a champion for women, she gave an inspiring speech that many criticized saying the things she talk about have nothing to do with her father s platform. here we are days after president trump revoked the safe pay order put in place by president obama. how does this make sense and does ivanka have to take this. if she s pushing equal pay, i m all for it. they need that voice inside the white house. i m all for it. i would right turner have her working on it than ignoring it. this business about equal pay dogged white houses. if you go back in history, other white house s didn t have equal pay for equal work whether it s the obamadministration bush 43. i want to see what she does z. i want the voice heard. nicole, it was last january president obama said he wants all large companies to disclose compensation for employees broken down by gender and race. is this something ivanka trump has to own now that she has an official job and is what she s passionate about? she doesn t have to but should. she and jared have gone above and beyond anything on ethics and disclosure. why? because they are acutely aware. they are from a generation and they both sort of sit atop these families that are aware of the value of a brand. that s generational. i think that their knowledge and their savviness in that area should make ivanka want to own this. we are talking about whether she should, she has to or runs the risk of being viewed as a hypocrite. all that is true. she should want to. she should want to own it and ride it for her personal brand. i follow her on instagram and social media. her brand is so interconnected with walking the walk on this issue. she has one of the highest ranks on the white house staff, it is unclear what will be standing between her and the ability to impact the policy process in the white house. her and her husband are viewed as the most influential. they are setting up meetings with foreign leaders. the notion she couldn t get something done a her own personal bndnd identity isn t tied to the success of it would be a misnomer. people said she has the ear of the president. she was his daughter 30 days ago when he sent the tweet and he hasn t said sorry, yet. i think family dynamics are complicated. you asked if she should own this issue, of course she should. my point is, she should want to. she brought in my friend, dena powell who is very, very savvy and very well respected across the political divide, which is a rare thing, which i m sure you would agree. i think there are enough women in the white house that i would hope they could use their power to do something. you are right. ivanka did give a speech at the republican convention that seemed disconnected from everything else in trump s candidacy. hope springs eternal. it s not consistent with anything else donald trump has said or done. i hope she makes a difference. i think the issue most people have is she does talk the talk, but doesn t walk the walk. we have a budget that e vis rates for women. he rescinded an executive order that deals with pay equity. if you care about it, why didn t she go to her dad sand say don t do this. there s an order that says contractors have to pay equally. he went ahead with it. the reality is, a lot of people are wondering this is all show and a way to improve her brand and not do anything for women. maybe give her a chance. maybe give her a chance. it s not even 100 days yet. see what she does. greta, we have to leave it there. listen, time to give her a chance. she s got this official job. who know what is she s going to say at the podium. let s be optimistic. i know what i m optimistic about, this team. thank you so much. what a morning. you better stick around. at 6:00 p.m., it s greta s turn. you have to watch for the record here on msnbc. look where we are. the sun just came out. we are live in d.c. it s time for the your business entrepreneur of the week. danielle will never sell online. the owner of the yarn store fibre space doesn t want to process web orders. she wants to con nekt with customers at the store. using social media, she entices people to come come in and buy. for more watch your business sunday morning on nbc. today is equal payday. to honor it i sat down with a leader, ceo of the cloud computing company sales force. his company i not just about computers. it s makg headlines by spending $3 million in 2015 and again now to bring salaries of all female employees up to the level of their male counterparts. mark, we are here because it is equal payday. but equality is not just about compensation. it s about rights. human rights. when people are potentially losing health care. when we ve got immigration issues. it doesn t feel like we re moving forward. well, i think that, for each person, we have to decide what we want to do individually to create equality. for salesforce, you know, of course, equality means many different things. you know that, for us, education is equality, accessibility is equality. but tonight equality is equal pay for equal work. you worked with president obama. last year around january you were applauding obama s efforts where he said, i want all large companies to show me, disclose the compensation. let us break it down between gender and race. that s not happening now. are we at risk of losing those things? can you push those agendas forward with the current administration? well, i think that you have to look at what the world economic forum has said, which is it will take more than 100 years based on current pay practices for men and women to be paid the same. that just is unacceptable to me. it s just too long. and that s why i think we have to put up a flag and say, look, you can do this. it s as easy as pushing a button and saying that you are going to pay men and women the same. when you went to the white house, i know you were talking about this 5 million apprentice moonshot. you would love to see in five years. 5 million apprentice jobs in america. when you left the white house president trump s daughter ivanka trump said she is excited to work on this issue with you. is that concrete? are you working on this program with the white house? well, i love specific, actionable things, that s why i love tonight with equal pay, it s something i can do. i love the idea of a 5 million apprenticeship moon shot. it s something actionable that we can do. we can put 5 million people to work in this country who need to be retrained and reeducated and reinvigorated through an apprenticeship program. the white house seemed excited about the idea, but have they made a commitment to it? well, that s up to them. i brought what i could. and i am doing what i can. you are also going to be part, not officially but maybe advise the white house, work with jared kushner on innovation, something you know well. while we are working with an administration that might be denying climate change, doesn t want to invest in research. wants to de-fund n.i.h., how does that work? you can t move the country forward without basic research. we have to aggressively fund the n.i.h. we cannot tolerate a cut in n.i.h. funding. that s craziness. do you believe the white house is on the same page? you have told me before that trust and thoughtfulness are so important for great leadership today. and we are living in an administration where it seems like there is a void of trust. well, obvious i am not going to, you know, agree with everything in the white house. and i certainly didn t agree with everything in the last two white houses that i worked with. but i am going to try to do what i can, and i think that everybody has to try to do what they can. that s, i think, all you can do. i think that guy, marc benioff, could end up with a big political job one day. we ll take a break. when we come back, paul ryan will be taking questions. hotel, i want someone that makes it easy to find what i want. booking.com gets it. they offer free cancellation, in case i decide to go from kid-friendly to kid-free. now i can start relaxing even before the vacation begins. your vacation is very important. that s why booking.com makes finding the right hotel for the right price easy. visit booking.com now to find out why we re booking.yeah king arthur: ready! washington: charge! empress wu: charge! (in chinese) king arthur: charge! let your reign begin. evony, the mobile game. download now. before fibromyalgia, i was a doer. i was active. then the chronic, widespread pain drained my energy. my doctor said moving more helps ease fibromyalgia pain. she also prescribed lyrica. fibromyalgia is thought to be the result of overactive nerves. lyrica is believed to calm these nerves. woman: for some, lyrica can significantly relieve fibromyalgia pain and improve function, so i feel better. lyrica may cause serious allergic reactions or suicidal thoughts or actions. tell your doctor right away if you have these, new or worsening depression, or unusual changes in mood or behavior. or swelling, trouble breathing, rash, hives, blisters, muscle pain with fever, tired feeling, or blurry vision. common side effects are dizziness, sleepiness, weight gain and swelling of hands, legs and feet. don t drink alcohol while taking lyrica. don t drive or use machinery until you know how lyrica affects you. those who have had a drug or alcohol problem may be more likely to misuse lyrica. with less pain, i can be more active. ask your doctor about lyrica. that wraps us up for the hour. i am stephanie ruhle. i ll see you tomorrow at 9:00 a.m. it was raining and sleeting and how it s my friend hallie jackson s turn and the sun is shining. right to capitol hill. paul ryan is taking questions right now. let s listen in. right now we re at the conceptual stage about how to move forward in a way that can get everybody to 216. we need to get the votes and consensus of 216 of our members. that s where we are right now. it s premature to say where we are, what we re on because we are at the conceptual stage right now. i won t get into the details of these things other than to say that this is all about getting to the conceptual stage. we don t have a bill text or agreement yet. but this is the kind of conversations we want. the authorizers, all the various caucus members, the administration. these productive conversations are happening right now. we re all talking about conceptual levels, about how to improve the ability to get lower it s all about getting premiums down. this is all
i m van jones. we have a lot to talk about tonight. plus i have the most incredible man in the world to talk about it with. trevor noah is here tonight in the house! this will be amazing. so look, the world is still going crazy. we have the obamacare repeal, the russians, we have crazy tweets and crazier tweets. but for me, things really got crazy last week. here s my messy truth. i need to own my messy truth. i made a lot of y all really mad last tuesday. i see you. i see you. right after the trump speech, anderson cooper replayed the applause that congress had given a navy s.e.a.l. widow. as she stood up, some people dismissed it as cynical. my dad was in the military. that moment moved me. it moved a lot of people. i said this. he became president of the united states in that moment. period. there are a lot of people who have a lot of reason to be frustrated with him and to be fearful of him and to be mad at him. that was one of the most extraordinary moments you have ever seen in american politics. he went back to being coo coo for cocoa puffs crazy. i could move on, but i want to talk about this. in case it s not clear, i still oppose trump and i m afraid of trump. when i said he was presidential, that was a warning. i saw him as a serious threat from one. everybody was laughing at me and i was begging people to listen to me. this guy is as serious as a heart attack. i thought he was a threat then and now. today. by now i think you know something about me. i m an emotional guy. i m an emotional guy. i am. i cried more on cnn than anybody else times 50. i m emotional and it was an emotional moment and i m proud of myself that i can still get teary eyed during a trump speech. i m proud of myself that i am human and i am honest enough to tell you what i really think and really feel. even if i know my best friend will disown me. if that ever changes and i stop telling you my real truth and realtime no matter how messy it is and craze te sounds, i don t deserve to be on tv anymore. i want to give you my truth. that said, i do understand why so many people were shocked and disappointed. for millions of people and people i love and i work with and i know and care about. trump is a scary villain. we have people living in fear. they are not trying to hear that. i hear you. please hear me. please hear me. i m here trying to fight on two fronts and not just one. i think we face two dangers and not just one. yes, there is a danger of normalizing trump politically. just resigning ourselves to all these attacks on people and facts. that s bad. we can t let that happen. there is a second danger that nobody is talking about. you didn t listen to me on this one. there is a danger that we start to become trump. that we normalize trump emotionally. there is a danger that we are fear base and fear driven and give in 100% to theus against them hysteria and close our harts and refuse to ever again take the risk that maybe, maybe there is still some good in some of the people we disagree with. if that happens, a form of trumpism has been normalized in our hearts. in our hearts. as a father and a human being, that worries me too. that worries me too. i can honestly say there is nobody that i would rather have this conversation with than the man i m about to bring to the stage. the next guest has been sharing his truth for a long time. we are all better off for it. straight off the set of his other show, coming on to my show, the best selling author and host of the daily show, the one and the only, trevor noah in the house! my goodness. here you go. i m a big deal now. very good. thank you so much. this is nice. they came to see you, brother. that s bad for my self esteem. they are always here for you. good to see you. let s talk about it. a lot of people thought that i had jumped the shark and joined the trump administration in the tank. were you one of them? were you scared? you know what i realized? during the debates, there were moments when trump connected with people and i watched trump through a different filter. when i see trump, i see a stand up comedian. he knows how to make you laugh in a moment you didn t think you would. he approaches a topic in a way that no one normally can. during that moment with ryan s wife, trump even told a joke and people laughed and connected. i was like that is scary. that s good. when you watch trump and what you said, my first instinct was come again? when i watched that, i realized what you were saying. he became presidential in that moment. what s scarey is it s that easy to be presidential. i feel you on that. listen, you are somebody that i look at and i study and you are a brother with a platform. i m a brother with a platform. not many of us have this opportunity. i want to be real. it s true. what i top the say to you is i wake up worried. i feel the stress of feeling like i m in a catch 22. like we have to debunk trump. it s not just the republicans. we have have to debunk the folks and when we do what we do, are we adding to the polarization? do you worry about that when you are doing your thing? sometimes i worry about it, but the thing i came to realize is you have to be careful that you don t push it so far that you are empathizing. you should understand where people are coming from, but be careful of putting yourself in their position because you justify why people do what they do. when i m making the show, i m trying to find like minded individuals and people who may slightly disagree and are in the middle. what we have to be careful of is saying everyone from everywhere can be changed. that s unrealistic. that s true. that s not the world. you have conversations and sometimes it s having a conversation with someone you don t agree with to see if they see some of the shortcomings of their argument. i m not in the world saying i can change and everybody everyone can change me. in a democracy, people don t have to agree. dictatorship, you have to agree. that s the point. you have to agree. democracy, you don t have to agree. i love it, but i think you have to understand. my big fear is we seem to be living in a world where we can t understand each other. you say did i go to high school with this person? you can t talk to your in-laws. i ask myself and saying did you understand them or have we been glossing over everything? when you look at something like what s happening to president obama now. you look at obamacare. you look at the accusations against him. at some point is it something beyond the fact that they didn t like his policies and at some point you say if it s unprecedented every time, what is the thing about him that is unprecedented. you look at this and you say why are we afraid to call these things out. story because he is african-american? i didn t even notice. i wasn t talking about that. you have to say okay, this is a black man. we know for a fact many americans say i do not want to have obama care because it is named obamacare. you say people called it that to make you not like it. what s scarier? the fact that they did that or if you did that, you would be opposed to that. people know how to harness your fears to get to their ends. you said you can t change everybody and i agree with that. i think the struggle is different. i don t reach out because i m trying to change somebody else or make them be like me. i am trying to reach out so i don t let the trumpist environment turn me into something i don t want to be. the overall environment means that i might start becoming what i m fighting. i don t want to feet whd what i fighting. i don t want to change. i want to keep loving folks. is that what you think trumpism is? if i watch trump, i feel like trump is about the flip flopping and the reaching out. trump is about posing with the historically black college leaders and say look at all the black colleges. did you hear them out? no, but i took the picture. we are reaching out. the full reach out is what trump does. look at me with obama. friends and by the way he is the criminal who tapped my phone. day i m has beppy and the next not. it s reality tv. i top the get otherdom. all these people came to see you and not me. we have another van in the house. van white wants to talk. we have a button on what he told you about. good evening. my father passed away several years ago, but i carry his button from his awards that day. i think about the marches today in rochester, ferguson and baltimore and new york city. my feeling is we are reflecting the same protests and challenges that my dad and grandparents faced 50 or 60 years ago. do the marches of today are they more or less effective than the marches of the 50s and 60s? shouldn t we be doing something different some. that s a difficult question. there is no definitive way to measure the effectiveness of a march. if you look at south africa, marches upon marches upon marches come with protests and culminates in a political change that took place in the country. you can t deny that in america politicians are swayed by their perception in the public. when it am cans to marching, i don t know if it changes anything immediately. i don t know if it is extremely effective, but you can t deny it has an effect and people see it and politicians see it. should people say should i march or not march, march. there may not be another way to be heard. that s one way for the country to see it s not in a normal place. it s not business as usual. you can t deny at the end of the marches, the civil rights movement saw the reaping of those rewards. in south africa, we saw the results. was it only for the marches? no. we can t deny that. i was leaving. you can t go! lock the door! when we come back, the secret to president trump s success so far and why a lot of liberals can t see it even though it is sitting right there on their twitter accounts. it takes hard work, dedication and hours of practice for a drum line to perfect its routine. rocket mortgage by quicken loans is just as precise. but it only requires a few minutes of your time. now, you can securely share your financial information with the push of a button, giving you an accurate and custom mortgage solution without missing a beat. 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[ upbeat music ] strut past that aisle for the allergy relief that starts working in as little as 30 minutes and contains the best oral decongestant. live claritin clear, with claritin-d. i wanti did my ancestrydna and where i came from. and i couldn t wait to get my pie chart. the most shocking result was that i m 26% native american. i had no idea. just to know this is what i m made of, this is where my ancestors came from. and i absolutely want to know more about my native american heritage. it s opened up a whole new world for me. discover the story only your dna can tell. order your kit now at ancestrydna.com. ( ) it just feels like anything is possible here in upstate new york. ( ) at corning, i test smart glass that goes all over the world. but there s no place like home. there s always something different to do like skiing in the winter, jet skiing in the summer. we can do everything. new york state is filled with bright minds like samantha s. to find the companies and talent of tomorrow, search for our page, jobsinnewyorkstate on linkedin. welcome back to the messy truth. don t worry. trevor noah is still here. he is of course the host of comedy central s the daily show and stories from a south african childhood. a moving book. i have been talking to trump supporters and i m learning a lot. one thing i want to share. progressives tend to focus on politeness and proper protocols. a proper way to deal with reporters or judges and when trump breaks the rules, we start freaking out and happeneding out all these protocol violations and his supporters, his appeal has nothing to do with protocol. it has everything to do with pride and prosperity. he said i want you to be proud of the country and have a job. liberals see the crazy tweets like that s all he s doing. his supporters ignore the tweets and cherish the ones where he s taking credit for the stock market rising or the jobs he saved. if progressives want to understand trump supporters, those are the tweets we want to pay attention to. i want to bring you back into the conversation at the break. i sometimes think that liberals just miss the appeal. why is he having this appeal? it s a combination of two things. we see the madness and we focus on that. you don t focus on why he connects. you can t expect people to disavow him. the one one thing people struggle with is he is doing what he is going do. if you voted for him, this is what i voted for. he is driving liberals insane. i think he is. i am seeing progressives so mad and depressed, i don t want y all to be in charge either. am i wrong? people said what is an extreme liberal? what is that? they want health care. what s the thing you are afraid of. health care for everybody and free education? we know what a right wing person does, but when people are saying this, they are going it s the same extreme on either end. yes, but what is one extreme shown us they are capable of. when it comes to trump, they are not denying that it spools over. it may be boring, but it stops you from falsely accusing the president who came before you of wire tabbing you. that s coo coo for cocoa puffs. i know you want to get in and i want you to hear from our friend stephan stephanie. my question is the boycott for the oscars. why do the hollywood elite think their opinions matter on the issue of politics and they represent the american people and why do we think they should tell the american people how they should think. the question is why have the people given the hollywood elite the impression that they look to thistome give their opinions on their behalf? we can t deny that we live in a country where people are looking to you as a celebrity for opinions. this celebrity said this or this one said that. if they don t speak up, they say why aren t you using your platform. if they do, they say shut up. these are human beings too. at the end of the day, they vote and they are part of something and have they made a lot of money doing this, but it s messy, but it s the truth. mire husband and i are involved with politics and you have to look at when you are elected, you are in that position that people elected you. is that a different platform? definitely. at the end of the day, there is a confluence of factors that is not related to people voting for you. people vote with their dollars. what do you think? when you see a merrill streep say what she says, i get happy. i like it. what about the people who never feel they will be a part of that a-list crowd? do you think it s a sdprnlg did it help to build trump? this is what i struggle to understand. i struggle to get how it is equal. when people say who is the hollywood elite, who is your president? donald trump is literally a tv reality star. he s literally everything that people say they hate. me too. i never hated the fact that someone is on tv or elite, but why would you hate the very thing that you elected? maybe eric can help us understand. he is an african american trump supporter. thank you for being here as well. trevor, i m one of the 16% of african-american males, college educated who did did vote for trump. i m really a minority. i voted for him because of economics and on the security issue. there is a perception in the black community that we are the lucky ones. president trump, president obama, a lot of black people look to them as being the ones that made it. they are still suffering with crime and poverty and dysfunction. what do you think president trump should do to work on this area that president obama admitted he admitted he failed in that area. what do you think president trump should do to go beyond that? that is deep. there are so many layers to what you said. it s interesting that you voted for somebody based on security and that s where i call you guys out to a certain extent. the news terrifies people. can i say that? the news terrifies people. i watch cnn and different networks and do i need to know about a guy in france waving a knife? it terrifies people and you make that decision. is that the person who knows and will keep you the safest? you don t know. that s economics as well. you have to admit african-americans did not do as well under obama. no one will take that away from you. the question you have to ask is, is donald trump listening? every time he talks about black people, he has to say the phrase inner city. he doesn t think a black person exists beyond that. black people are not considered any other voting group other than black people. black people are the working class. black people are also taxpayers and also wealthy and black people have many shades. if you have a president who only cease you as one thing that is crime-ridden and gang infested, if trump listened more, if trump really engaged and i m not saying engaged with the trump supporters around here. let me ask you about this. don t you sometimes get offended when it s inner city? you got past it. how can you get past it? i get insilted. we are not all there. it s a hard thing. the hardest thing is he s on the outside. he does need to listen to what s really going on in the black community. i think we want to have safe communities and more economics. he probably me ins to come into our communities and listen and find out and talk to the families and find out what s going on. don t listen to the talking heads. don t listen to the politicians. don t go into those communities and find out what s really going on. you know what i love about this. you ask me the question, but you have the answer. trevor. i do think i have done a lot of work in oakland in our communities. i do think that we leave a door open for republicans to point out the funerals and the vigils and say the teddy bears and say the democrats don t do anything for you. as long as we have marches and i will continue to march to make sure we are not victimized by police brutality. a lot of times our pain and suffering on the inner violence, the violence within our community gets ignored or democrats duck and hide about it. don t you think that they should come on that issue? i don t think anyone disagrees with that. just because there is inner city violence does not mean that you should say that all black people are living in this situation. just because black people managed to find a new life that is better and they don t live in the inner city, doesn t mean you know what s happening. i think this. you can t deny that the back and forth has been shown. it s weird because if you read the books and just understand, if you look at what overpolicing does to communities. overpolicing and under policing have been shown consistently to create a distrust in the community. people no longer see the police as being protectors and servers. they see it as a military that keeps them down. if they don t respect the police, they take the law into their own hands. this perpetuates over and over. i took a road trip a little while okay to the border battles. another place we have a lot of funerals. i talked to latino reporters of president trump. what i found will surprise you when we get back. 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comcast business. built for speed. built for business. welcome back to the messy truth. trevor noah is still with me. during his campaign rallies, donald trump can rely on his one big moment talking about the wall he was going to build. meanwhile on the border, millions of people are living on the frontline and dealing with the real life immigration issues every day. a lot of them are trump voters and a lot of them are latinos. i took a road trip to meet with some of them. this is where the debate overboarder security starts. the arizona-mexico border. i wanted to see it for myself and talk to the people who live this arrangement every day. like the county sheriffs deputies. if someone is able to go under, over, or around the border fence. they walk through this desert, aim for the highways, and disappear into the united states. why do you think they are so desperate to come here. not the ones that bring the drugs, but the other ones. it s america. what better place to come? i don t know what their personal motivation is to come over here whether it s work or family or whatever. they are motivated by something because it s not an easy trek. on this day, a drug bust which is all too common, 600 pounds of pot in the back of a truck. this is packaged for distribution to avoid dog detection. that s why it doesn t smell. now it will. they have a whole routine. out here law enforcement doesn t know who is around the corner. whether a desperate family. the danger is real. over here they have scouts. many people walk through here to find a better life, they are mixed in with smuggler who is do going avoid getting caught. man. these guys are going through all this to get to america. doesn t your heart break sometimes? you see the guys and think to yourself no because they are doing something illegal. what s heart breaking is the kids and the citizens of the united states. that s heart breaking. inside sammy s mexican grill, latinos talk about the frustration. sometimes i m worried and scared. not everyone agrees. they support the president and backed his candidacy that included displaying a big sign of support. why do you think that sign caused so much heartburn for some latinos? since the beginning, mr. trump or president trump now was labeled as racist. anyone who supported him was also labeled a racist and saying how can another latino support trump at all? what s the answer some. his ideas are important not only for me and my kids and the country as a whole. latinos who love trump. you are stumped. i m not at all. it makes sense. people are more complicated. i met a woman during the cleveland rnc and she was cheering for trump. i said if you don t mind me asking, you are a latina and cheering for trump. why? she said i don t believe in these other policies because my family is waiting to legally come to this country and i see other immigrants skip the line and come in. that s why i m supporting trump. i understood what she was saying. it s interesting when i was down on the board, i wanted people to see that the border enforcement, it s the drug cartel s are taking the good folks coming here to do good work and forcing them to carry drugs. that s messing up the whole thing. a lot of stuff happening and the people who come here who work so hard to make america better. not make america worse and nobody is hearing their stories. i want to talk to someone who can put a human face on this. please welcome carlos and his wife is here. first of all, thank you for being here and thank you for being here. this is a story that is shocking and amazing to a lot of people. you are facing deportation and you were just in a detention center for a couple of weeks. you can still be taken out of the country. how are you feeling? i think i just feel wonderful about the support i got from my community. i think about the difference that i make in my community. i made the change and the impact in my community. the reason that he is saying this is because even though the county he lives in voted 70% for trump, trump voters came out of the woodwork and fought to get him free. that s an unbelievable thing. why do you think they did that? you had the whole town of trump voters saying not my guy! how did you do it? . i do believe that. you have friends here. tim was one of the trump voter who is stood up. this is messy. i am confused. trump said he was going to deport a bunch of people. trump said he was going to build a wall and then you voted for the man and then he started deporting people and you said no. i m confused. i really wasn t confused myself. obviously with any politician, you don t stand for everything they are preaching and trying to portray to you. immigration policy. and building the walls. it s not a solution to the problem. you step back and look at immigration reform and address the real issues. that s where it needs to be. it s such an amazing story and it got so much attention. why did you vote for trump and why did you stick up for this guy? with the two candidates that were running, in my opinion donald trump was the one that was more of a decision for me. number one, our area is dependent on coal mining. that s important to us. my daughter is married to a coal miner. say no more, but this is an extraordinary guy and you stood up and said the whole town. how did it make you feel. how does it make you feel when that happened? thank you very much. i told you i get emotional. how about that? the trump voters coming out in droves to support an undocumented person. they went to the ballot box. they go not every trump supporter is racist. you can argue that most of them are not racist and i would turn that and say for trump supporters, why would you say all immigrants are criminals and the same logic should be applied to them. what you said is the truth of it all. you felt like one of them. that is the thing that separates us so many times. when we don t see the decision and you don t see the human being on the other side. you don t see them as them. you see it as an idea. in apartheid, one of the most powerful things they were able to do is convince black people they were different from each other. when people are separated, they don t care about the mexicans. those mexicans are criminals. you saw a man. you saw a human being and a brother in your community. that is what is boils down to. a lot of times there are human beings on the other side. it s not the coal industry. it s a coal miner who is a man. it s not a mexican, it s a man who is part of a community who is here with his wife. that s what people miss in all the political debates. that s what is beautiful. i love you, man. trevor noah, thank you, thank you, thank you. get this man booked by the way. if you think he is profound here, get the book. it s unbelievable. president trump promised he was going to repeal and replace obamacare. anyway. when we get back, we will have the trump campaign wheef on the economy explain what is going on. steven moore will be here next. nobody does unlimited like t-mobile. while the other guys gouge for unlimited data. t-mobile one save you hundreds a year. right now get two lines of data for $100 dollars. with taxes and fees included. that s right 2 unlimited lines for just $100 bucks. all in. and right now, pair up those two lines with two free samsung galaxy s7 when you switch. yup! free. so switch and save hundreds when you go all unlimited with t-mobile. dearthere s no other way to say this. it s over. i ve found a permanent escape from monotony. together, we are perfectly balanced. our senses awake. our hearts racing as one. i know this is sudden, but they say.if you love something set it free. see you around, giulia there try phillips fiberway to ggood gummies.. they re delicious. and a good source of fiber to help support regularity. mmm. these are good. nice work, phillips ! try phillips fiber good gummies! here s to the wildcats this i gotta try .. bendy. spendy weekenders. whatever kind of weekender you are, there s a hilton for you. book your weekend break direct at hilton.com and join the weekenders. or is it your allergy pills? holding you back break through your allergies. introducing flonase sensimist. more complete allergy relief in a gentle mist you may not even notice. using unique mistpro technology, new flonase sensimist delivers a gentle mist to help block six key inflammatory substances that cause your symptoms. most allergy pills only block one. and six is greater than one. break through your allergies. new flonase sensimist. welcome back. i m van jones. here s the messy truth. when it am cans to obamacare, repeal is easy, but replace is kind of hard. republicans have had seven years to figure this out. four national elections and they still can t get together on a plan. this week conservatives from the club for growth, the heritage foundation and tea party patriots have come out against the bill. so have american hospital association and aarp they come out with a plan and the roof falls in. i want to bring in a trump translator to help us figure this whole thing out. he s the best one there is. the senior economic adviser to the trump campaign, also a cnn contributor, bring to the stage steven moore, an economic mastermind wizard, glad to have you here. get up here. get up here. appreciate you, brother. very, very good. so look. i got to say i ve been watching the show for the last 30 minutes. not a word that i disagree with. maybe there is coming together here. you re a liberal, i m a conservative. i m so happy there s some trump fans here. plessy messy truth. i have a technical set of questions for you which is why you ain t all got your act together? a lot of conservatives are asking that question right now, too. what you said is right. it has been seven years since obamacare passed, and republicans have said they ve wanted to repeal the bill and now they have the power to do it. they run the white house and the house and senate and there s been some certainly some discord within the republican party. i happen to think we can do better than obamacare. i think the affordable care act has been the unaffordable people. it s raised prices for people. people like my own family. i thought we were supposed to save $2500 on our health insurance and we re paying several thousand dollars more. i just want to make sure i want everybody to having coverage. i think most republicans do too, but i want to make sure we don t ruin our economy and make affordable to people. the critique is great but the solutions are now where you guys have to deal. opposition is easy. proposition is hard. i want to talk to somebody who is living this every day. let s bring her into this conversation. my name is julie. i m from dallas, texas. and i want to tell you about my daughter and our family. five years ago, my younger daughter was born premature with down s syndrome and heart disease. thanks to the aca, she was able to receive care. she would have reached her lifetime maximum benefit in her first month of life in the neonatal intensive care unit. thanks to the aca, we were not denied coverage for her despite having a disability. we couldn t be charged more for her than her sister. she has medicaid and that s been a lifesaver for her. she has access to her prooed pediatric specialists and i make sure she gets the routine care she deserves. right now we re looking at repeal and also medicaid cuts. and the fact is those would put people s lives at risk, people with disabilities like my daughter. the cuts when they say things like medicaid block grants, per capita cuts can, those are cuts to services. that could mean warehousing people with disabilities, putting them backing into institutions without having community supports that medicaid provides. what i want to know, you re an economist. why is it that the market and making tax credits available to the rich would mean cutting programs for my daughter who depends on the protections and makds for her life and many people with disabilities our lives are hanging in the balance. [ applause ] i think what s powerful about her point is she was clearly helped by obamacare. pre-existing condition, she s helped. medicaid she s helped. what do you say to folks like that. how is your daughter doing now? she s good but she requires routine medical care. she has complex health needs and medicaid made it affordable for us to see specialists. i know exactly what you re talking about, van. my sister has a daughter who has epilepsy. and very similar health problems and huge medical expenses. those are the things that need to be covered. no question about it. i don t think. do you think you can do it though? i think we can and we should. don t you think that a person in this situation and like my sister should have coverage so that people who have serious conditions, but i think we can do it better. health care is consuming so much of our economy right now. the costs have been spiraling out of control. i would say that one of the problems, van, is a lot of middle class families can t afford to buy the rising premiums. you saw what happened two weeks before the election. 22% increase if premiums on middle class families. that s one of the reasons. that was a back breaker. that may have changed the election. we got somebody who wants to talk with you about that, patty. the obamacare did not make health care affordable for my family. before the law, a blood product that my son infuses weekly had a $16 copay year round. now we have to come up with $6,000 at the beginning of every year to pay for these igg infusions. drug company assistance programs are overburdened because of obamacare. how can anyone say that the law is working when it has made you know, once affordable life-saving medications so unford credible. before you get too happy, steve, that s a very good question. but listen, she s concerned about the deductibles and a lot of people are. as you answer her question, explain to me, are you sure your plan is going to actually lower the deductibles? because that sims to be the main point. i have seen one thing that brings down deductibles. some people want to buy higher deductible plans. if you do that, your premiums come down. what is the purpose of insurance? insurance is to against the big events like your house burning down or something. that s why we very homeowner s insurance. for routine medical expenses americans should be able to pay those out of pocket. you want insurance so if you have cancer or some kind of serious expense that, everyone is covering for it. a high deductible is not necessarily a bad thing. we see the world completely differently which is not going to shock you. i don t understand why we have health insurance companies can at all for the very reason you just said. insurance should be for stuff you are not sure about. you don t know if your house is going to burn down, if you re going to have a flood, flood insurance makes sense. crop insurance makes sense. i m sure i am going to see a doctor even just to sign the death certificate, i m going to see a doctor. why do i need a big health care company. i need health care. most countries have health care, not health insurance companies can profiteering. > let me throw this back at you. what two industries in america have had the biggest increase in prices and inflation over the last 20 years. reporter: education and health care. what s similar about education and health care? human rights. those have the most government rolfment so when the government has a bigger involvement, the prices go up. if we had a free enterprise system in health care, we could see prices fall. but i agree with this woman who you re exactly right when you the have situations like that, we re a rich country. we can afford to provide everybody with coverage but we have to make sure we do it in a way that isn t bankrupting our country. the heritage foundation says the existing proposal is terrible. trump seems to be for it. are you for what trump is saying or for what heritage is saying. > i work at heritage. it you trying to get me fired here? i think there s a lot of improvement. this bill that came out a couple days ago was a draft. it s going to be improved and go through the system. i think we re going to see a new bill that provides coverage for everyone, that increases competition, reduces costs and covers people with prechising conditions. afternoon seven years and four elections i hope to see some kind of bill. you promised you would lower the cost of health care and you haven t done it. we can do better than this. now it s your turn. i want you to stick around. when we get back, i have one more question from an audience member on a topic that is close to my heart. i m surprised i bring this topic up when we get back. ence. or the network that keeps a leading hotel chain s guests connected at work, and at play. or the it platform that powers millions of ecards every day for one of the largest greeting card companies. businesses count on communication, and communication counts on centurylink. today, unlimited gets the network it deserves. verizon. 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is it dead again? we have a good web count. i think we feel very good about where we are, where it s headed. white house says they feel good, but the word on the hill is things are looking grim for that revised republican plan. a live report from there. that s coming up. rounding out our agenda, don t kill me for saying it, but 2020 has already begun. when i got asked by ray to come up here, there wasn t a doubt in my mind even though i know it caused a lot of speculation, guys, i m not running. okay? joe biden trying to downplay his interest but look where he is in new hampshire. he s not the only democrat starting to make moves toward 2020. we will talk about that and much more ahead this hour. but we begin with the president raising quite a few eyebrows today. comments in a new interview, trump says he would be honored, hid word there, honored, to sit down with north korea s leader kim jong-un. now, high-level diplomatic relations with that country have been on ice for decades. the white house spokesman sean spicer telling reporters a lot of things would need to happen for that became a reality, but there was also this, the president s openness to meeting with the president of the philippines, although this country s leader has met with president obama as recently as last year. that was overseas. that was a brief meeting. this would be an invitation to the white house. that would be considered by many a step too far, given the human rights situation in the philippines right now. reporters today asking whether there s a link between these two diplomatic outreaches. does the president have a thing with these totalitarian leaders? does he admire something about the way these guys conduct themselves? the president clearly, as i ve said, understands the threat that north korea poses. i think someone with the potential nuclear capability to strike another country, potentially our country at some point in the future, is something the president takes very seriously. nbc s chris jansing is at the white house. chris, you got two fronts here, you got duterte in the philippines, the idea of brings him to the white house, question of honoring somebody with a record like his with that kind of recognition but also the use of the word, honor, i would be honored to meet with kim jong-un. is there a strategic calculation behind either one of these moves from the white house s standpoint? reporter: well, they say there is, they say that this is about making sure that the korean peninsula stays stable, that only under certain circumstances, for example, would kim jong-un be invited here and it would be toward that end, but obviously, when you say you would be honored for someone who is a brutal dictator, someone who no american president has ever met with a leader of that country, obviously, it s going to raise a lot of concerns. now, sean spicer was pressed on that a lot, and in a way, the president gave himself kind of an out because he said, and i m going to quote him here, most political people would never say that, what he said about kim jong-un, but i m telling you under the right circumstances, i would meet with him. then sean spicer said there would have to be a lot of things that would happen under those right circumstances. a lot of changes. so it s not something that he said is in the planning or he expects to happen soon, but they re not ruling him out ruling it out as a matter of diplomacy. when you go back to the leader of the philippines, you have another situation where you have someone who has been accused of vast human rights abuses, the head of human rights watch, in fact, said that if, indeed, he would come to the oval office for a meeting, it would make the president morally complicit in future killings, but as you know, steve, duterte almost immediately sort of fired back and said, well, i m very busy, i m not sure that i could put it on the schedule. again, this was something that sean spicer, and we heard reince bree b priebus say this as well, this is a situation where they wanted to bring these leaders together to try to provide a united front that could bring some more stability to the korean peninsula, but the reporting is that people at the state department and some of this own senior officials were surprised what he had to say on that phone call and, in fact, one of the things sean spicer was asked was about the phone call and said obviously the president is briefed about these leaders, he knows what the situation is, so from the white house, they re trying to present this as a way to bring some sort of elusive stability to the korean peninsula, steve. all right. chris jansing over there at the white house. chris, thanks for that. over on capitol hill, meanwhile, donald trump s health care bill, that revised repeal and replace effort, that looks to be on the brink of another failure. a new amendment trying to appease the hardline conservatives of the house freedom caucus has alienated the more moderate wing of the republican party in the house. our current nbc news count puts the number of no votes at this hour at 20. now, remember, the key number here, 22. republicans can go up to 22 defections from their own party, still have the votes to pass this. anything over that, though, this bill cannot pass on the house floor. they are perilously close to that number at this hour. nbc s kasie hunt is on capitol hill. kasie hunt, i am having flashbacks to the end of march. we watched that no count rise and rise and rise, go over that magic number and then republicans said, you know what, we re pulling the bill, not going to have a vote. is that the trajectory this one is on right now? reporter: steve, i would say that this particular vote count, it s much narrower. it s definitely more stable, but it is right on the edge. we re at the point where this really could go either way for republic republicans. i would say leadership is more optimistic than they ve ever been to get to the 20 216 votes. mike pence is coming up to capitol hill, going to be having meetings up here though his office is being very coy about exactly who it is he s going to be meeting with. this is balanced on the edge and frankly republican leaders want to be able to let some of these moderates go. it s a tough vote for many of them and they d prefer to be able to say it s all right, you can vote against this, no problem, we ll be able to get it passed, anyway. just not clear that they re going to be able to do that and the president, as well, has been talking to news outlets and creating a little bit of turmoil and confusion about what is the next step for the administration. here s what the president had to say on fox news just a little bit earlier. we have one plan that s been going through. it s been getting better and better and better. and somebody was saying, oh, the people who voted for trump aren t getting good they re going to get the greatest. these are the greatest people. we re either going to have a great plan or i m not signing it and i said from day one, the best thing i can do is let obamacare die and then come in with a plan. reporter: and there s a bloomberg report out this afternoon as well where the president is quoted as saying that the pre-existing condition coverage is going to be just as good under this republican plan as it was under the aca, obamacare, as the president said in this interview. again, according to what the president said as quoted by bloomberg. i just caught up with jim jordan, a key member of the freedom caucus here on capitol hill. he said that he had not yet seen those comments by the president. wouldn t comment on whether or not he would change his yes vote if, in fact, they change the text of the bill, not clear if the president is confused. he had said, oh, this, there may be additional changes. it s possible he was referring to the senate which we know is likely to change the text of any bill that does manage to get passed through the house. so to a certain extent, we re right there where we felt like we were all last week, where we re still not sure that these votes are in place, and what the president has to say about it still has the potential to kind of rock the process a little bit. steve? always a wildcard there, kasie hunt on capitol hill. kasie, thank you for that. joining me to talk about all of this, shane, a chief white house correspondent for politico. republican strategist matt mcoviak. and ashley parker for the washington post. thanks for joining us. let s start on health care and the push for republicans to try on the second effort here to get it through and shane, let me ask y you, what are you hearing down there in terms of we heard from kasie hunt right at the number here, what would it take for republicans politically, what would it take to get this through? what trump wants is a vote as soon as possible and there s been a little bit of an artificial push to do it by wednesday because he s scheduled to leave town after that. this has been a big push. the general rule on capitol hill is the moment you have the votes you call the vote. the fact they haven t called the vote, they re short. vice president mike pence is headed up to the hill but mostly trump has been personally disengaged from the process, he hasn t been lobbying lawmakers on the specifics because it didn t work the first time so he s trying to let congress and mike pence do it for him at the moment. he did weigh in a little bit on saturday night, he held that rally in harrisburg while the white house correspondents dinner was going on and he did make a pretty pointed call for support from pennsylvania members of congress. take a listen. we re going to save americans health care and repeal and replace that disaster known as obamacare. i ll be so angry at congressman kelly and congressman moreno and all of our congressmen in this room if we don t get that damn thing passed quickly. you re a republican, i m curious, take us inside the republican party, take us, if you can, inside the strategy of a republican member of congress. how do they weigh that kind of a comment, that kind of a sort of, i don t know if threat is the right word, but that kind of comment from the president when on the one hand his overall approval rating number not that high. on the other hand, among republicans the support is still there. does that weigh on them? yeah, i think it does, and of course, it depends a lot on your district. what is trump s standing in your district, how is it for the midterms? these are the factors that play into this. he mentioned congressman moreno by name, likely to be the new drug czar. of course they don t want to move him forward until they have this look done. look, i generally don t think calling out a member of congress of your own party by name is a good strategy, but i hope that they have looked at it and believe that trump s standing is strong enough that putting that pressure on those members who may be wavering is necessary. they haven t found the balance, how do they satisfy the house freedom caucus and satisfy the moderates to get 216 votes? i think they re close. the vote could even come tonight although i think it will come in the next couple days. i think it s more likely than not they will pass it this week. they need to get a legislative vehicle out of the house to get it to the senate to get the process going. ashley parker, that s the other question, even if this comes out of the house, even if they were to squeak this through, you look over at the u.s. senate right now, you think it s tough sledding in the house, the senate s just ten teem times that difficulty. yeah, that s exactly right. they may be able to get this through the house because they brought on the more conservative members and some of the more moderates typically in the house tend to be more team players so they ll take a tough vote to help leadership. you re absolutely right, once it goes to the senate you have the members who have the considerations of not just a narrow district with a clear point of view but an entire state, many of the states, you know, which accepted funds for the expanded medicaid and i think even if they do get this out of the house, i think it seems far less likely it will pass the senate, but at this point i think some of this is the white house wants to show some legislative achievement. the house wants to show they ran on this, voted repeatedly under president obama to repeal this, they can do something and i think they might be happy for a outcome where it shifts the blame to the upper chamber. if you can call this a legislative victory as well, it looks like a deal has been struck, there will be no government shutdown, there will be a long-term spending plan put in place. now, the headline here from the white house s standpoint, they had been threatening to hold this up over the issue of funding for a border wall. there will be in this deal, there will be apparently no funding for a border wall. the white house trying to put a good spin on it. here s sarah huckabee sanders. some of the president s top priorities are front and center in this bill including an increase in military spending, so that we can rebuild our military the way it should be. we ve got heavy emphasis on border security, $1.5 billion to focus and put toward border security. two big priorities for the administration, two big wins in this budget. well, shane goldmacher, look, democrats are crowing over this, saying, look, the bottom line here is no money for this border wall. the signature thing trump ran on, thing he was says had to be in here, not going to be in here. they re saying basically they got the better end of this deal. the white house is going to say what it s going to say. i wonder big picture going forward, are there any lessons from this deal, from the willingness to compromise the white house has shown in the end here, are there any lessons coming out of this government shutdown deal that could be applied for the broader legislative agenda of the white house? yeah, i think trump wasn t personally involved in this. he said a couple lines, he wanted border wall funding, he didn t get it. discussions about issuing things related to funding for planned parenthood. he also didn t get that. at the end of the day, congress gave $1.5 billion for border security, not a wall, but security. so that s something enough that sarah sanders can go on television and say this is what we ve accomplished but it s not giving them what dthey really wanted. going forward, this is the dynamic certainly democrats on rare bipartisan bills are going to push for which is government spending bills. you need democratic votes. they want to basically prevent trump from getting wins o those. they did here on the fundamental issue of the wall which is so central to his candidacy. matt, in terms of that republican base we saw, a lot of attention last week in the run-up to 100 days, voters with tru trump, enough to get him over the top in november, were still with him. that standpoint, in terms of keeping that coalition together if you re donald trump, how important is it to get a real win, something that s not just getting obamacare repealed and replaced through the house but also getting it through the senate, getting it to the president s desk. you don t have the money for the wall right now, you have some sort of very murky prospects for repeal and replace. at what point do they need to put a win here versus risking loses soing some of that base? it s a great question and i don t think there s a precise answer. my sense is for this calendar year, they need to get a legislative result on both health care and on tax reform. and they know they have to start with health care to get the additional $1 trillion that they can then apply to tax reform to let them do a bigger, bolder tax cut. so, look, i think the base is still with them. i think the polling shows that. what hasn t happened, he hasn t been able to expand beyond the base. the later we get in the calendar, steve, the more concern a lot of republicans up on capitol hill are going to have because they ll been facing potentially primaries but certainly general elections in the midterms in 2018. this budget is not going to this budget deal is ultimately not going to determine whether his first two years or first term is successful or not. he didn t have a lot of leverage, came in in the middle of the budget psycycle. they re focused on health care and tax reform. nose are the big-ticket items they re investing political capital on and need results on. technically donald trump already has a re-election campaign committee in place, allows him, allows that committee to be running television ads like this. we don t have it. i was goi it was going to be a magical segue right there, i can tell you the trump re-election committee has put up an ad, you might have seen it on television the last we have it now. look at this. take a look. donald trump sworn in as president 100 days ago. america has rarely seen such success. america is winning. and president trump is making america great again. i m so glad we got that. i was going to try to describe it. i couldn t possibly have done it justice. ashley parker, it s unusual, this early on in an administration, a lot of people say it s like the election last november never ended. and here we are, we re looking at re-election ads essentially in april of the first year. it certainly feels that way. i was kind of surprised to see the ad. you know, start so early. i will say, it did a very good job of kind of packaging president trump s somewhat modest achievements so far but i think the president more than anyone sort of understands and believes that, you know, perception is reality and image is reality and that s the sort of thing even if it s not actually geared toward helping him get re-elected in 2020, it is sort of gearing to energizing the base and frankly i think kind of encouraging the president who s had a little bit of a rough go of it. so i think that was an ad made as much for the occupant of the white house and of the folks in the west wing as it was, you know, for an actual re-elect. all right. ashley parker, matt mackowiak, shane goldmacher, thanks for joining us. thank you. we re going to take a quick break. on the other side, learning more about president trump and possible future meetings with leaders like north korea s kim jong-un. we re going to talk about whether there s a strategy, coherent strategy behind these potential invitation or reflect a certain personal preference on the president s part for a certain type of leader? plus in cities across the united states today, thousands of marchers hitting the streets for may day protests. the annual international workers day demonstrations drawing larger crowds this year. many protesting president trump. only invisalign® clear aligners are made with smarttrack® material to precisely move your teeth to your best smile. see how invisalign® treatment can shape your smile up to 50% faster today at invisalign.com at angie s list, we believe there are certain things you can count on, like what goes down doesn t always come back up. [ toilet flushes ] so when you need a plumber, you can count on us to help you find the right person for the job. discover all the ways we can help at angie s list. everything your family touches sticks with them. make sure the germs they bring home don t stick around. use clorox disinfecting products. because no one kills germs better than clorox. at a very young age, he was able to assume power. a lot of people i m sure tried to take that power away. whether it was his uncle or anybody else. and he was able to do it. so, obviously, he s a pretty smart cookie. conciliatory words from the president over the weekend about north korea s king jong-un. today trump telling bloomberg news he d be honored to meet with the leader of north korea if the circumstances were right. this was days after trump invited the philippines authoritarian president for a white house visit, rodrigo duterte infamous for calling on filipino residents to kill drug crusaders. i want to bring in foreign affairs reporter at politico to look closer at these two possible, i guess you could say, meetings. thanks for taking a minute here. let me start on the issue of kim jong-un. you have trump saying under certain conditions he would be honored to have that meeting. the use of the word, honored, i think caught a lot of people s attention today. is is there a reason he s for that specific word choice? is there a specific tone sort of strategically he s trying to get across here? well, the think the president wants to be one of those leaders who schhatters taboos, doze this differently. i don t know if he intentionally meant something special by the word, honored bus this idea he s willing to meet with kim face-to-face would be an extraordinary step. at the same time, people who don t agree with the north korean regime say, look, it will legitimatize his rule and his oppression in north korea. you have sean spicer saying he doesn t foresee it necessarily happening under the current conditions, but that it could under the right conditions. what would the right conditions, what might the right conditions look like for that kind of a meeting? this is the thing, i mean, this country, this administration, has said that they want a denuclearized korean peninsula. so you would presume that that could mean that once north korea gives up its nuclear weapons, which it s not planning on doing any time soon, that perhaps that would set the stage for a meeting at some point in the future. i don t think this is something that s going to happen any time soon. let s talk about the situation now with the philippines, rodrigo duterte, leader over there obviously very controversial. you have reince priebus yesterday saying that strategically, one of the purposes of potentially inviting, having him come to the white house for a meeting, would be the situation would be to link it to the situation with north korea. here s what priebus had to say. i m not so sure it s a matter of mon honoring this president the facts you ve laid out there, it s the matter for a potential of nuclear and massive disruption in asia and the potential at least according to north korea of developing an icbm that could, at some point down the line, if we do nothing, potentially reach the united states. this is a different level of problem that we need cooperation among our partners in southeast asia. so the idea of a linkage between the relationship between the united states and the philippine, the relationship between trump and duterte in the philippines, having a bearing on the situation with north korea. is there a link there? in the grand scheme of things it doesn t hurt to have the philippines on your side when it comes to north korea. they are a key country in that part of the world. overall the philippines don t have a lot of influence or lot of power to rein in north korea on their own so it s quite credible the link. when i talked to people today they said the more important thing is china s role in the south china sea and the fill pee philippines trying to stop china from gaining influence there. my understanding is trump is much more concerned about that part of things. the control of the south china sea, than he necessarily is about what s going on with north korea. that being said, north korea is the sexier subject. that s probably one reason the administration is trying to bring that into the conversation. so you re getting here in the united states you re getting all sorts of blow-back to the idea of trump meeting with and inviting duterte over to the white house. here s the twist maybe people didn t necessarily expect, though, duterte s response so far has not exactly been warm and enthusiastic. he says me might be too busy to even come. can you is there a reason that you can think of, i mean, usually we re used to foreign leaders, especially in a situation like his, being honored by the legitimacy that a visit to the white house sort of bestows on them. here he is sort of saying, eh, i m not sure i m going to do it. he s playing hard to get, that s true. ever since duterte took power last summer, he s been playing a double game, really cozying up to china without ever totally cutting off ties with the united states so this is part of that. he s trying to basically signal to both beijing and the u.s. that he s on everyone s side and so that s probably why he s not jumping at the chance to come to the white house immediately. all right. nahal toosi with politico. thanks for taking a few minutes. thanks for having me. all right. up next, we re live on the ground in los angeles. that is where thousands of marchers are taking part in a may day protest. the annual international workers day demonstrations are popping up in cities across the united states. seems to be a little bit more interest in them this year than usual. a lot of the protests aimed at the president. he s hiding a card! it s time for you and your boys to get out of town. (laughing) left foot. right foot. left foot. stop. twitch your eyes so they think you re crazy. if you walk the walk you talk the talk. it s what you do. if you want to save fifteen percent or more on car insurance you switch to geico. hide the eyes. it s what you do. show em real slow. over hereno!ver here! (dog barking) whoever threw it has to go get it. not me! somebody will get it. (dog barking) anyone can dream. making it a reality is the hard part. from the b-2 to the upcoming b-21, northrop grumman stealth bombers give america an advantage in a turbulent world. and we re looking for a few dreamers to join us. all right. time now for a check of the headlines at the half hour. the house could vote as soon as tomorrow on a $1 trillion bill that would fund the federal government through the end of september and avoid a government shutdown. now, this is compromise legislation. it does not include money for president trump s proposed border wall. also rejects proposed cuts to domestic programs that the president had been calling for. but trump would be getting money to strengthen the military. again, that vote could be coming tomorrow. house republicans also preparing to hold a vote later this week on that reworked bill to repeal and replace obamacare. the chair of the conservative house freedom caucus telling msnbc today that he thinks there are enough votes to pass the legislation. however, a number of moderate republicans still say they have concerns about the bill or are already against it. looks like it would be a very close vote. president trump telling bloomberg news meanwhile, he is not willing to meet with north that he excuse me, he would be, big distinction there, would be willing to meet with north korean leader kim jong-un if the circumstances are right. this comes as the cia s director mike pompeo makes an unannounced visit to south korea and the house prepares to vote on a bill to tighten sanctions on north korea. parts of the midwest and south bracing for more flooding and possible tornadoes today for storms blamed already for the deaths of 15 people. the system which brought heavy rain, high winds and damaging hail to those regions is now heading toward the east coast. a manhunt is under way in dallas for the gunman who shot and critically wounded a paramedic who was responding to a call. nbc s dallas affiliate reporting that a bystander was also shot during the incident. it took place near a fire training academy. and from the world of sports, nba legend larry byrd, larry legend announcing today he is stepping down as the president of basketball operations for the indiana pacers franchise. the hall of famer says it s time for him to do something else. he says he s probably going to do some scouting and some advising work for the pacers. of course, before he was with the pacers, as a boston fan, i have to say he was and will always be a boston celtic. at least to us. back to politics now. people from all across the country gathering on may day. a day that traditionally promotes workers rights, but some this year aren t fired up just about labor issues, instead, they are focusing on president trump and his policies. our own steve patterson is in los angeles. he s at one of those rallies. so, steve, it s may day, goes back a long ways. got some controversial roots, i guess you could say, but this is all about president trump today, huh? reporter: it all goes back to the labor unions of lore and those peoples are still here, believe me, labor unions, the labor organizations are alongside in this crowd, but you have also you have immigration advocates, you have lgbt community, you have the traditional black civil rights leaders, all out in force really galva rinized by donald trump s presidency. usually these groups always come out for may day protests, may day march, a way to take off work and show solidarity behind those labor unions, but this year, we have a new president and that s why people are joining forces, really with a very sizable crowd. the prediction is now about 100,000 people, 100,000 to 200,000 people expected to rally at some point today. we ve been joining them with a march. we ve been marching alongside them all day. apologies if it s loud, but i want to introduce you to daniella, we ve just been talking and walking with, and i just wanted to know from your perspective, why are you here marching today? what s the purpose? i m here marching with workers on international workers day because it s important we take a stand against all the injustices that we re seeing especially since the new administration took office. we can t let employers or anybody feel emboldened to attack workers and suppress their rights. so i m here to stand up against that. are. reporter: thank you so much, daniella. that s a good summation of the message from basically everybody we re speaking to. that singular message in solidarity, a message sent to washington, d.c. there s also a sizable pro-trump crowd we will hit at some point along this route. we ll be live to bring you the latest. back to you. steve patterson in los angeles, thanks for that. we re going to take a quick break here. still ahead, please, please don t kill me for bringing this up but the 2020 campaign may have already begun. especially if you re a democrat. vice president joe biden tried to say over the weekend that he s not going to get in the race, some other key names are emerging and a lot of people think the former vice president may still be angling for 2020. he was in new hampshire after all. up next, we re going to take a look at who is already making moves for next presidential election. stay tuned. i ll never find a safe used car. start at the new carfax.com show me minivans with no reported accidents. boom. love it. 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(vo) more dper rollres for mom bounty is more absorbent, so the roll can last 50% longer than the leading ordinary brand. so you get more life per roll. bounty the quicker picker upper whaaaat?!ortgage offer from the bank today. you never just get one offer. go to lendingtree.com and shop multiple loan offers for free. free? yeah, could save thousands. you should probably buy me dinner. no. go to lendingtree.com for a new home loan or refinance. receive up to five free offers and choose the loan that s right for you. our average customer could lower their monthly bills by over three hundred dollars. rates could rise again. go to lendingtree.com right now. there s nothing more than my vacation.me so when i need to book a hotel room, i want someone that makes it easy to find what i want. booking.com gets it. they offer free cancellation, in case i decide to go from kid-friendly to kid-free. now i can start relaxing even before the vacation begins. your vacation is very important. that s why booking.com makes finding the right hotel for the right price easy. visit booking.com now to find out why we re booking.yeah even though i know it caused a lot of speculation, guys, i m not running, okay? i know it caused a lot of speculation. no. that s the former vice president, joe biden. he says i m not running. he s talking about 2020. not everyone believes him because did you see where he was giving that speech? he was giving that speech in new hampshire. when you re in new hampshire and you re not actually from new hampshire and you re a big-name politician, it means more often than not that you have at least some speck of on interest in the next presidential campaign, which by the way, it is not until tuesday november 3rd, 2020, that we ll actually have the next presidential election, but biden is far from the only democrat here in the early days of the trump administration who already has democrats, already has people in the political world talking about the next presidential election. what s going on here? there is a vacuum in the democr vacuum in the democratic party, don t control the house, don t control the senate, don t have the white house. the family who were the big dynas dynasty, the clintons, are pretty much off the stage. barack obama hasn t been heard from. there s a vacuum here. who s going to step forward, who s going to lead this party? what direction is it going to go? we haven t seen something this wide open on the democratic side for a while. who s posturing, who s positioning? who are people talking about? seem to be tough to put this together right now but there seem to be three big names koot oind of hover over the others right now. biden is one of them. look, he d be 78 years old in 2020. a lot of people, though, say, 2016, maybe if he d been the candidate, he beats donald trump, maybe he gets those extra votes hillary clinton couldn t in the rust belt. so his name is out there. bernie sanders, how could his name not be out there? he came a lot closer, a lot parter thpar farther than people expected in the primary. a big constituency on the democratic side. elizabeth warren, obviously the last couple years she s become a nationally significant figure in the democratic party. interesting, though, all three of these in 2020 would be over the age of 70. if there s a need there, a desire there among democrats for a new generation, maybe you look elsewhere. who are some of the other names out there? these are sort of the most obvious i guess you could say potential candidates. cory booker, senator from new jersey. amy klobuchar from minnesota, may be making signals she s interested. kirsten gillibrand from new york. also from new york the governor there, andrew cuomo, a famous democratic name, his father almost of his best friends, governor of virginia, he s going to be out because of term limits at the end of the year. the new york times did reporting on this, they dug up other names nobody thought would be connected to the 2020 race. mitch landrieu, mayor of new orleans. the new york times says he might be interested. seth molten, second-term congressman from massachusetts, iraq war vet, she s gottgotten visibility as a trump critic. martin o malley ran in 2016. didn t get much support. he may be interested in 2020. what does this point to, though, in a vacuum like one i was describing when people think it is wide open? you see this. you see names all over the place say, hey, maybe i ll check this out. why not me? maybe there s an opening. take a look at this historically. what could we be looking at in 2020? this is the size of the democratic presidential field. by the time the first contest came around. you can see, single digits. you got to a high there of eight in 2004. 1298 1984. this jumps out, 1976. 13 candidates. that s the year jimmy carter came out of nowhere, peanut farmer from plains, georgia. happened in 76? that was basically two years after watergate, after the nixon presidency imploded. a very volatile time in american politics. wide open democratic race. and a nobody at the time from plains, georgia, emerges, wins the democratic nomination, wins the presidency. lot of people say 2020 is the next time you will have a field on the democratic side as large as the one you had in 1976. of course, what did jimmy carter do in 1976? started real early. announced his candidacy in 1974. joining us to take a closer look at why democrats lost, matt, democratic strategist, senior vice president of the global strategy group. interesting numbers to talk about. stephan stephanie, president of emily s list. stephanie, i ll start with you. you re active in this stuff every day. the conversations taking place in the democratic party right now, i know so much of it is focused on donald trump, the trump agenda, those sorts of things but it does seem like there are conversations going on right now about that other question who is going to lead this party going forward? well, i think the question s the wrong question. what s going on right now which i think is just extraordinary is we have the strength of our party is the many voices that are coming together, not just in the deep bench of potential presidential candidates with a lot of women leading the way and couldn t be more pleased to see names like elizabeth warren, kirsten gillibrajilgillibrand, . have to throw in kamala harris, too. folks who should be thinking about their next step. what s so powerful, women are leading the resistance right now. we re seeing at emily s list over 12,000 women contacting us since election day, talking about wanting to run for office. we ve never seen those kind of numbers before. and so i really believe that the voices are in the grassroots, they re being led by women in so many different places. that s where i see the strength of the democratic party moving forward. matt, big question for democrats in 2020, how do they understand what happened in 2016, what do they think it means strategically, how they should move forward? you ve got some interesting new research you guys did on why hillary clinton, why democrats lost the white house in 20 16. one of the things you have here, you put this out today, said people who voted for barack obama in 2012, but who then voted for donald trump in 2016, accounted for more than two-thirds of the reason that clinton lost. you re saying there were crossover voters out there, voted for obama then voted for trump. tell us more, who are they? i think we know where they are. who are they and what motivated them do you think? what we sought out to do after the election is answer this big-picture question, extremely relevant for any of the people you mentioned considering running for office in 2020 and they all should be considering that and taking a hard look at it. we have to understand the challenges before us before we can figure out what the solution is. what we wanted to find out, answer a big-picture question, where the results and shift that took place in the election that led to those final results more an outcome, outgrowth of changes in support, in other words, people voting for barack obama then switching their vote to donald trump or was it changes in turnout, our base staying home or their base energized and coming out? we thought understanding that challenge is going to be critical to figuring out how we solve the challenge that lies ahead and what we found out is exactly that, that more than two-thirds, approximately 70%, in the key battleground states, was a result of changes in support. people who voted for barack obama in 2012, then switched their vote to donald trump. prior to the election, the idea, the concept, of an obama/trump voter was as real as a unicorn. now we realize this is an extremely important persuadable part of the electorate. these are not people that any democrat running for office anywhere in the country should swear off or ignore or just think is ungettable. these are people who voted for barack obama, that have voted democratic before, but we need to do a better job of reaching out to them and persuading them. we think the key to do that is by focusing on the right type of economic appeal to make that case clear. yeah, that s interesting, though, because you re talking about an economic appeal, you re identifying the voters and saying an economic appeal would be the key to getting them back. i have to say, a lot of the i understand this on one level, but the overwhelming message i have been hearing from democr democrats, at least, from november, has a lot more to do with russia, has to do with james comey in terms of saying these are the two reasons we lost. it sounds like you re saying, though, there s something deeper here. i think that s right. i think that s a mistake. i think russia is a critical issue that needs to be addressed and congress should address it and there are a lot of people out there that are shedding important light on how we address that issue. when we talk about politics and i think that s separate, when we talk about getting back to office, talk about elections to come, i m still focused on the one that just happened and making sure we learn the right lessen lessons, reach out to people in empathetic way, where the persuadable trump voters are coming from. not so we become republican light, so we put our values in the back seat and move away from what we stand for. that s not what we re talking about. making sure we re broadening our economic message to be truly inclusive of them and their economic concerns. stephanie, let me ask you if you think is there a generational issue for democrats to be worrying about or thinking about as they go forward? what i mean, i look in the house of representatives in all three big democratic leaders there are into their 70s, you look at the senate, i guess by comparison, chuck schumer is a spring chicken at 65 or so. you look at those three, the three that right now seem to stand out the most in this early presidential field all would be over 70, in some cases well over 70 in 2020. how big a factor should sort of the idea of a new generation, a younger generation, becoming more visible, more prominent be, as democrats look to 2020? well, i don t think the age of any candidate matters as long as they are connecting with the voters, but we also are seeing a rise of new leaders coming up and coming up rapidly. not only did you go through it with the growing bench of potential presidential candidates but i think about the incredible democrats who won seats in 2016, folks like catherine cortez masto, maggie hassan, tammy duckworth in the senate, many women in the house and men to be fair, who came in. these are diverse various ages that bring great strength to the democratic party and that is really important here as i was listening to matt and recognizing that we cannot do that without ensuring that it brings everyone together. it is really important as we think about the next few elections coming up, particularly in 2018. we are a party that does bring people together. we stab for all americans moving forward. we need to listen and respect our rule, working class folks that we often hear about are these obama trump voters. we also, this is an and, not an or. we need to really be listening and hearing and working with african-american women who have been the back bone of the democratic party. this is not an either/or situation. this is and. we have to do both better. all right. thanks to both of you for joining us. thank you. some news today from capitol hill. the republican congresswoman, she represents a district from florida. she caught washington by surprise announcing she will be retiring at the end of her term. she is from a heavily democratic district in the previous detention race. and her retirement. a big opportunity for democrats. the question is how many other districts are there like hers where democrats could have a real shot in 2018? 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