war veterans had actually started a series of international protests and marches, and on march 27th of 1933, 1 million protesters jammed madison square garden, and there were boycotts and protests movements all over the globe, led by the jews but certainly involving the interfaith community, the labor unions, anyone who wanted to profit at germany's expense in the protest of the nazi regime. .. >> good tuition nationalist, the zionist, seeking to legally organized themselves into a state under international law, which was done through the league of nations. it sought to move a good jews who were persecuted in europe into jewish palestine. most people today think of palestinians as arabs. but the entire world in 1933 thought the world palestinian meant the zionist the palestinian town of the jewish palestine that is why the subtitle is jewish palestine. that was the body of the jews in what became the state of palestine and the term internationally recognized and officially was palestinians. they used to refer to good use as the palestinians. >> host: they're ready advocates for a jewish homeland. >> guest: they saw the end before anyone saw the end park ave said the only thing that we can do to save a remnant that they saw coming they knew the history of the jews the recent and distant history they saw it coming. they made a deal with the right to -- with the right to transfer the jews of the nazi germany into palestine. how do you do that? that will be impossible because to is running palestine? it is run by the british and under the so-called mandate system which move the league of nations and mandated palestine which was turkish territory before that to be a jewish homeland but there were rules in place. this is important. that the jewish could not enter palestine without $5,000 cash or 1,008 british brought -- pounds this was called the capitalist immigration a certificate. how does a jew we've nazi germany where there are currency restrictions were no one can bring eight reich dmarc data of germany have is that you get into lestin as an a fishbowl currency? -- officials currency? german goods would be sold and as german goods were sold, a money would be produced. they do in germany with this complex arrangement would take the personal household possessions in assets and put them in a special bank and that was called . then a second bank was set up called the annual palestine bank in palestine. the money would be put to into the german bank and of the nazi goods would be sold by the zionist organization across the middle east and in palestine. when the goods were sold they generated revenue that went into the anglo palestine bank that then provided the money for the jews to bypass the currency restriction that the british had imposed if they would come in. in the process the nazis could restore their economy. the nazis could break the boycott because you could not transfer age you by selling the goods at the same time boycott the goods. the infrastructure of jewish palestine was built up. pipes. steel, libraries, cars, home s, buses of all of the things. i wonder why are there so many mercedes-benz? we all ask that question. that is why i start. >> host: is that what got you interested in the topic? >> guest: no. we will get to that in a little bit. i wrote this book and explained how it happened and in the process 25 years ago i was the first one to talk about the economic consequences of the holocaust. at that time people said why are you talking assets they were still trying to comprehend the enormity or the scope of the bloodshed how many people died, aghast, how many trains were there? people were not talking about money. today that dominates the conversation i want my property back and insurance back in those days it was almost blasphemous a few decades ahead of is time to discuss the many consequences. i realize that the scope of the bloodshed in many ways was linked to the economic impact of the holocaust. in addition i was the first one to use nazi and is zionist in the same sentence. it is today everywhere especially by the enemies of the jewish state. but at that time it was completely unexpected. that is why the book was extremely controversial and that is why the media jumped on it. i went on a giant tour although i tried my best it was quite shocking. we have people hiring psychologist to go on television and analyze the. >> host: was there a sense of cooperation that is what was so disturbing? >> guest: they said i was blaming the jews. >> host: instead of the elaborate scheme in terms. >> guest: in terms of a rescue. from the train to treblinka some thought i was revealing something that should not be repealed. >> host: i do remember the storm of controversy and there were articles coming out. yet here we are today and it seems as if the jewish community is much more open. >> guest: they are because i was established in the jewish community their credentials for fighting for justice if holocaust matters back when i wrote the book originally the american and zionist organization of america canceled the publication of their magazine. there is a published story but today the head of the is the l.a. has read the book geared endorsed it. >> host: what took you into this kind of research? it was your first book? >> guest: it was. and prior to that i was a vocal investigative reporter. i had done some at undercover investigations i was looking at the last slave state to the indian ocean and when i did that my agent approached me from william morris said we want you to write a book for us. what are the top five books? i gave them all sorts of ideas. the one that is too hot to handle is the transfer agreement. what motivated me to get involved was the march. i was fundamentally nine eve. i was such in a cloistered typical jewish neighborhood in by air meant i could understand how the jews could operate endure against the perceived self-interest but with the skokie march i interviewed the jewish attorney for the nazis. how can you do this? i was school by a professor at college to said there are many things we can understand but i did not believe it. i assembled a team of 20 or 30 historians and holocaust survivors and children of holocaust survivors. there was no second-generation movement. we went into five or six countries it was under people's desks and was protected and went to the veal beckham institute and found the information and assemble it and produced a book. >> host: the process to put it together but the palaver way in which the the was structured at the time it pre-internet access to that information must have been quite extraordinary maybe you can shed for the listeners skyhook -- the listeners the research putting it together. >> guest: there was no computers or internet. the manuscript was typed and every time i changed the footnote they had to retype the entire manuscript. they had to do that 30 times. even using the best i am equipment back then. [laughter] i did this in the late '70s and early '80s. we had to assemble everything by hand and we had to do it by carbon paper and photocopy. there were very few xerox places since israel it was hard to make a copy. we had all of these meetings and most people did not know what we were looking for. then i ran into an arc of is to seem to know where all of the files were hidden. i said how do you know, so much about this? he said i was in the transfer agreement. the word transfer in hebrew means a transfer. that was the name of the overall company. and you must remember, this was a encouraged by the nazis, cooperated with and the nazis and the zionist worked together because they had the intersecting interest. then not cease wanted the jews out of germany and the zionist wanted them into pablo side. and sees down good german assets and the zionist one to save the german assets and could only do by the transfer agreement. >> host: not these are willing to work with the jews? >> that is right. >> host: their desire was to exterminate the jewish people so was that before they had gone down the path toward is served a greater interest? explained that. >> guest: understanding the nazi period for real it is a complex set of situations. is both it reality and perception of reality. it dictates the facts on the ground when tumbling down the road. working on the zionist and i stop the boycott and do it get to choose out of germany. they would go to palestine. there is another train of thought. the nazis believed in ethnic private -- primacy and they believed that the germans had the full negative primacy in europe and they thought the jews needed to go back to where they belong. so you have the fantastical idea of others publicly endorsing good jewish immigration to palestine. the nazis struck a kind -- quote with a swastika on one side on one side and the jewish star on the other. they could maintain operation and they were allowed to grow. but understand with the zionist published the newspaper in the office they were overlooking every line. people don't understand exactly what the nature of the invasive nazi regime. they could have fought back and with many levels they did. but they were there realist would cold hard realist. >> host: within the context of the jewish community and the response there is a lot of misunderstanding. where they passive, reese's day? you alluded to the nature of the boycott could you share the backlash of what the jewish community was trying to do in response to the early rise from hiller? >> guest: look at two titanic forces of the boycott to cripple the reich and the transfer ever to save the jews. >> host: they seem to be parallel competing. >> guest: no. they are on a collision course. because they cannot coexist. the boycott movement did what had to be done. the jews condemned the nazis and had million men marches and a boycott in every city and led by the american jewish congress. there were organized boycotts. >> host: interesting to all americans. >> guest: not just americans by czechoslovakia's, england, f rance do not by germans goods and services. there is opposition within the american jewish community. it is easy to look at the jewish community today and believe it was monolithic but we both know that the jewish community back in the thirties was anything but monolithic. it is a very complex story. the jewish committee was comprised the leadership in this country was known as german jews which is the court the jews. they did not want to rock the boat. they led all of the protests against the czar, france damascus, they fought back whenever jews were persecuted and whenever the czar would take retaliation or revenge on the inhabitants there was never the issue. they stood up to the jewish rates and successfully defended the jewish rights all over the plan it. in this case the jews who are retaliated against her not a russian guy called sasha this would now be their uncle or their cousin or daughter. it would hit home. >> host: they thought there would be a backlash and that we should back off. >> guest: let's get the names the american jewish committee were anti-zionist in those days. not now of course. anti-zionist. >> these guys want to work quietly behind the scenes i wanted nothing to do with the nazi germany protests by contrast that with the other organization. not the committees or the but the democratic jewish people. but the so-called american jewish congress. the population said we will protest this. what do they have to protest? what was the weapon the average two had? the money in their pockets. that is it and not to use it for nazi goods but whether we talking about? the height of the depression. if you boycott a german pharmaceutical in china or other goods and services czechoslovakian french and american people will join that. labor unions czechoslovakia's are catholics who were outraged by what was being used. it was interracial and nonsectarian but meant to be all inclusive. >> there is also good nativist movement in the 1930's the jewish community was nowhere near as well organized tour as willing to take positions as they are today to advocate. because of everything you own mentioned. did the boycott see the notions of power? >> guest: about is the power of the boycott. you done that measure in nickels or dimes or in marks. you measure and fear. how afraid are you of the boycott? >> host: were they? >> guest: a nazi is believed in jewish boycotts and in international conspiracy which controlled the market's. most easily his hero henry ford in but brought him down? a jewish boy caught run by the american jewish committee and the congress against the ford motor company and this was biv of the in the minds of the nazis. although they believed in the boycott almost as much. if anyone comes to you with statistics they don't know what they're talking about because it is economic fear their role the economy. >> host: how did the transfer agreement play into that backdrop? >> guest: without the boycott did nazis would see no miss it -- necessity to work without the transfer agreement. that is why they succeeded by subverting the boycott they could do a good chance for agreement and it succeeded. because it did bring good use a lot of germany into palestine and created a jewish state and have that not occurred, and nobody doubted what would have been the fate of those jews. >> host: were there other areas of cooperation between the nazis and palestine at that time? >> guest: yes. there were undercurrents. none of this is simple. it is complex that is why i spent five years putting it together. jewish palestine was half agrarian if not mostly at that time 1930's. the jews did not alone much of the only and. it did not have a big infrastructure but they have farms. what was the biggest product? oranges was the biggest product the economic wherewithal and who is the number one customer for oranges from jewish palestine? nazi germany. now jewish palestine which of course, was abruptly surprise to january 30th would be a takeover by a adolf hitler now looks at the number one customer which is the third reich and if oranges are not purchase there cannot be no economic vitality and it would is a constant threat by the third reich we will not order oranges from palestine by from spain. this is the undercurrent. wrote it is easy to see this in black-and-white. my challenge of history is to see the complex way that established a very murky picture. >> host: let's go to those complex things. this was not a simple thing. it sounds like there is a lot of moving and shifting and maneuvering in terms of international merchandise. can you share what were the dynamics of the transfer agreement? what is the essence of it? >> guest: it starts off with a jew in germany taking his money and putting it into a blocked account. reich marks are hard to identify. they had dozens of different types of reich marks and values plan of all of the systems it was about 5,000 reich marcs there would be the money put into a blocked account and that fundamentally would be a trustee account and that would be run by the bay in germany. they would sell goods pipes and taxis than palestine lebanon or turkey they had all kinds of commercial distribution. when the money was made available it was deposited in a second big part of a name was the anglo palestine bank. that renamed itself after the state of israel was established and now it is obeying luni. same bank parker be credited to the international clearinghouse through the german trust fund and that would issue the foreign currency of 1,000 british pounds a certificate would be given to the german too and they would come across and many times with less items from his own home like carpet's or building materials or cars or came across with musical instruments. suddenly there was a massive german jewish infrastructure and economic confused -- infusion into jewish palestine. >> host: it is complex. so was this in a situation whereby the jewish community was contributing to the nazi efforts to help finance what it is they wanted to do? >> guest: yes. >> host: the also must happen one of the causes for such explosive reaction. >> guest: yes. a deal with a double. not the angels. the people who want to kill you. basically every time they rescued a two they paid into the nazi economy. and it is worse than that. there are many dynamics i never wrote about but the jews were compelled to rescue jews in this fashion. >> host: a choice they had to make it. >> it was terrible but you do not blame the hostage with a gun at their forehead. >> host: did the zionist consult with anybody or did they just say this is what we need to do? they would talk their own? >> they did not care about the american jewish committee it was controlled out of london until this time and by the time the transfer agreement came to the floor the access points for the zionist authority transferred to jerusalem so the people on the ground in jerusalem were making decisions stucco building the state of israel. consequently they had a chance of surviving in jewish palestine. >> host: when we use the term the zionist any particular the bears that we know of two were involved in advocating? >> guest: the entire jewish agency. of the black and white fabric just as i said the american jewish community was divided. the zionist committee was also not a monolithic. there was a death time labor party and everybody in israel called -- the chief engineer of this agreement and he was murdered for it on the beach in tel aviv at the location where the hilton now stands it tel aviv. there was no help 10 there at that time. he was killed presumably by the followers of the dissident zionist faction and that was led by a group really associated with the revisionist. the term repression a step that time it we have a new idea for the zionist and these were the for 18 one's. they said we want to fight hitler and not have a deal with him and consequently as the jewish community was torn apart and some birdieing the boycott the zionist community had riots and contentious votes in tearing their hearts out saying how can we could deal? right now it is common to say the nazis were not thinking of the extermination. my first view or my first comment use of the word extermination in nazi literature goes back through 1933 because that is the word they used and world war i to exterminate the year medians was extermination. it was a word of the day and the zionist completely expected everything that happened because they have a complete grasp on jewish history at the hands of murders and they had seen many jews died in eastern europe and other parts of the world. >> host: talking about the controversy then and the buck but on a personal level rating about this come obviously must have been, i don't know, ad hominem attacks, but what was it like when the book first came out in that context? >> guest: it was my first book. i was in my 20s when i started it and it came out 1984. i had been the editor of a sitting magazine but it was never exposed on the international stage. the book was published worldwide. people were shocked surprised confused. there was a town hall meeting set up in chicago to discuss this. it was supposed to be in some little j.c. see social room and by 1:00 so many people had made reservations they moved it to a large synagogue. then they moved it to to a football stadium. [laughter] i had 1100 people waiting to hear me talk about this. it was rough. they said all muammar qaddafi was financing me. i had picket lines and said my parents were from kuwait. polish survivors day hired a psychologist what am i doing this book? ultimately the test of time and the truth of the book. >> host: were you surprised did you anticipate it would have that reaction? >> guest: i anticipated it because it was my reaction. i hated the project. >> host: but you've like the but? >> guest: i wrote the book. it had to be written and directed. >> host: a story you thought it had to be told. >> guest: yes. i was on a quest. trial by fire in a prepared me well for others. >> host: were you surprised when doing your research or when you started, did you think it would reveal what you ultimately learned? >> the entire book covers the net by minute developments in three countries accounting for time zone ships in jewish palestine, germany and the united states. we hard to put an it going back inferred and only covers the first three months of 1933. is very intense it did with the one it to do which is to understand what had happened >> host: but my question is were you surprised by the conclusion? >> i never wanted to find the conclusion that i had. it was wide but it is a lot like that with my books. i never know how far it will go but i take it and to the line. >> host: i remember you told me about the ibm book and stood at the holocaust museum and stood there wondering why is that there? you had to process it. one is the worst moment and the most gratifying moment as well? >> guest: the worst moment what was the worst moment? probably, there were people attending one of my lectures , and undertaker and he said to my parents we want to bury your son's book. the best moment was when i won the hamburg award for the best book of the year and i became a celebrity in the jewish media and from there i developed a syndicated column and 50 jewish newspapers based on the transcript and the jewish media, i did not know there was a jewish we at that time or a jewish newspapers in every city and a plaster this all over and gave it a great deal of credence and gave me entree into pursue my wider mission of exposing injustice against the jews and to do the other things i have done. >> guest: net launch your career you became a columnist? >> yes. syndicated throughout the world. louis farrakhan granted me the first interview in fact, for a jewish journalist because he had read the transfer agreement. and based on that but he made a statement and quoted did jews mated deal with the nazis. i know because the jewish author wrote it. >> host: is that what he was referring to? >> guest: there were a lot of antagonist that use the information to invalidate the jewish state and use it falsely to claim that the holocaust did not exist. but these same people would use the bible or the biography or autobiography is are anything that they have and they are frustrated by the fact that i brought up the truth that the jews and is cited is to rescue the issues. now. there were transfer agreements and other countries. there was the potentiality of rescuing millions of jews. ask yourself whether or not the nazis would have been stopped by people running up and down the street with placards or whether it took something more. the scientists were the only realistic the time. there was no country or major corporation were major organization that did not have a vibrant relations commercial and diplomatic with the nazis at that time. >> host: year website was the different topics whether or of addiction or the holocaust, if i am not mistaken this is not what you usually talk about? >> guest: right. id 300p per year by talk about i am and holocaust, will addiction and all of these books i do not talk about the transfer agreement. >> host: it almost seems to be like you have a love-hate relationship. >> guest: i do. i always tell people read this book last. i have eight or nine bucks. i told a reviewer from the "miami herald" if you review this book he will hate it. it is not a comfortable book to read. it was less comfortable to write. but the holocaust is not comfortable and the truth is not comfortable. >> host: in the back of the book has well as new signed it you ask the question was that men or genius? >> guest: to shed any light on bad? >> guest: obligee janus is based on madness. it is false. >> host: it is a brilliant work and important. i want to turn things over to mitchell you will share some questions the scholars have submitted and we will take it from there. it. >> it is hard to know where to start with the subject but when standard chose backer for is the author of a number of books on the holocaust and a forthcoming book wrote, what you think would be the impact on the israeli ability to observe holocaust survivors of the forties have the transfer agreement that occurred in the thirties? >> guest: the main value is 1.7 billion dollars equivalent dollars in today's money transferred over. it was not trinkets but fundamentally infrastructure. when they choose came over during the fifth heather point* and after the fall of the third reich they came over in the huge waves. where were they going to live? what water were they going to use? where would the road speak? have the transfer agreement never occurred in the 1930's there would have not been the infrastructure to rapid the of sorg all of these issues. the nazi program was continued, as you well know after world war ii by the arabs. they had approximately 1 million jews from arab lands from the fall of the third reich. these people were not put into refugee camps but quickly absorbed. calling the ministry of absorption and they've sort the people and so the answer to gilbert it is the state of israel not be aided with the most important impetus during the depression years, it would have been coming i think difficult to of the sorg hundreds of thousands of jews who came on mass from those that follow. and this was anticipated. >> i have another question from professor from the executive director of scholars of peace in the middle east. there were other transfer agreements such as one in czechoslovakia why didn't go succeed to transfer more dues to palestine? >> guest: this is true. there is a transfer agreement in italy and czechoslovakia and romania and they each have their own financing schemes. as the situation became more dire for a good use in europe. remember hitler went into austria and took as a pocket and began to take over europe zionist frantically said the more transfer agreements to save the jews. remember there was an important statement i won't quote you a phrase that you know, well. the world is divided into two places. those where jews cannot live and those where jews cannot go. most people think albion is water that you buy at the store but the conference live with us of what to do with hundreds of thousands of refugees where the doors were shut. palestine was the only door open. they were not allowed into most of the nations of the world. these transfer agreements have the possibility to transfer hundreds of thousands from romania, hungary, the most fun point* jews were wiped out. and transports organized and hungary by one of the members of the board of directors of ibm. imagine of the jews had come by the boatload literally into jewish palestine what happened? the war. economics stock and international trade became ill the go. the zionist were not able to continue transferring these moneys out in the effective and meaningful fashion. the war caught up with the transfer agreement before it could catch up with the genocide. >> one professor and the author of many books on ethics who is also a scholar who fuller first told about the agreement i recall what i told you about it in the '70s you found it hard to believe it happens now after all of your research and writing and thinking do still find it hard to believe that it happened? i did not believe that it happened because i was not smart enough for wise enough. i rarely had been out of chicago. the march 10 question in the skokie march was just outside. if i was presented now i would be the did in an instant i never would have believed i am had a 12 year pact is a widespread commercial coalition with the third reich to identify the jews and to create the basis of the auschwitz tattoo. i never would believe the rockefeller foundation would finance the program that sent joseph mangling into auschwitz. i believe these things now because of the trial by fire i did with the transfer agreement but the revisionist agreement was controlling the jewish agency instead would there have been a transfer agreement were german reparations to the state of israel in the fifties 4/5 what might have been the economic and political outcomes? >> i am often and constantly ef- ast what if questions on the transfer agreement with it had never been there? here is what i think i can answer and it is a very dangerous word in history. what if but if they had controlled the transfer agreement the jewish agency at the time, i doubt very strongly there would have been a transfer agreement. but i have to explain the delicate fabric of the revisionist movement they had good relations with the fascist italian regime because they believed in a very strict organization. but i do not believe based upon the revisionists they ever would have allowed the zionist organization and movement to cut a deal with the nazis. they would rather fight them and they did. by the way. from that they can extrapolate on their own what the consequences would be. would there be reparations to israel? those were calculated in 1938 by goldman and i have access to his processed papers to the american jewish archives. in 1938. before the war broke out out, years before auschwitz was established, the zionist were already anticipating the worst because they were realist when himmler said we will destroy did jews coming they paid attention and they did mathematical calculations on goldman and i have the report. i never mentioned it until this moment on the anticipated destruction economic with human if hitler succeeded and held there almost succeeded. he succeeded 99% in many countries and was stopped but just barely. >> dimension 1938. that was also of the year coming up on the 71st anniversary. >> guest: you wrote a distinguished buck. >> one of the things i but found even after seeing what went on the u.s. government was not able to actively rescue jews what did you find about the government's position? >> i think the doors began closing for the jews very quickly after the first months of 1933. there were refugees every where and talking about south africa and australia. it was very common for the jews in germany to escape to austria in 1938. they went to austria to check the slovakia and from there they went to france and then the germans took over france in the bifurcated fashion. when it was said the world was divided into places where the jews are not allowed to be and not allowed to go, it was the reality. this was the dire challenge of the zionist. this is an important dichotomy. are we going to make an effort to restore jewish civil-rights or to rescue jews for national rights? either take a dollar to keep a jew where he is and help them get through the starvation and transfer. this is real politics. even the relief package is given to german jews those also went into the german economy. this is too complex to be black and white and too complex for me that is why it took me about five years to figure out. >> an expert on middle east affairs and author of confrontation winning the war against jihad come a would you think would be the impact lack of fine the economy if there was never a transfer agreement? >> guest: there are many institutions today such as the water company i have taken for granted as infrastructure companies but they occurred due to the investment that came over from the transfer of assets. it is common for people to save the transfer agreement did not rescue people but rescue money. that is not true. added rescue people it is true the rescue of the individuals was metered out in cadence with purchase and distribution of nazi goods. but the fact is they had to buy the goods in order to rescue the people. what is interesting coming when the jews were in the concentration camps they did not say i am german or polish they said i am a zionist and i wish to live. jews have a right to live and they saved the remnant with the gun to the head. back gun has never been removed from the temple even though it is gone an inch or two away. if i can just put in the times and for modern times, today we still have the iranians trying to do and 12 minutes what hitler could not do in 12 years. the zionist understood their needs to be a strong jewish state disowned jews have the same national aspirations other groups do. >> why do so many other historians fail to read about the transfer agreement? >> they did not want to. the transfer agreement was understood and there were several treatises in german and hebrew and academic circles. not like today where somebody does a master's thesis and puts it on the internet than 1 million people have access to it. when i went to the leo beck institute in new york and then looked at the user guide and i said the files are supposed to be in this folder. where are they? they are not in this file or cabinet he said they are under my desk and he gave them to me. the book tried to do what many historians did not seek to do britches to be all encompassing on a narrow topic. and instead of a slender matter. i had to look not in one surtout archives but 2430 and had to put all of this together. this is the invention of the edwin black approach to holocaust documentation never looked in one place but 20 places in put it together in a giant puzzle. but why? why didn't they do it? they did not want to. by the way i did not want to. >> i can see why. given the uncovered of the whole subjects her crowed james matthews is a reader there broached corrode the world wide boycott toppled the hitler regime were toppled by the zionist? >> it is another what if question. it is impossible and inappropriate to answer. but i will try. the boycott would not happen or was not capable of toppling the german regime. remember, we're talking about a bridge game coming people who quote statistics do not know what they are talking about. this was a legal corrupt economy that stole other people's money as the tone economic wherewithal. if they stole it from the neighboring countries, it would only make the hitler regime more desperate. but what the boycott could have done is possibly in the early stage have the impact on some of the policies. we did see it had any effect because there would be no transfer agreement. the only reason the nazis felt compelled to negotiate with enemies was because the boycott was a weapon and then not cease in confusion actually feared. >> the subject of a boycott was the anti-nazi boycott just of the jews or bigger than that? >> guest: it was way bigger than that. it was never called a jewish a boycott. there were catholics involved some of the greatest figures with the archdiocese of boston were involved, the polish, labor unions come a protestant community was involved. the organizers of the boycott against the nazis were kolff-- careful to scope this not just as a jewish tragedy but one threatening the world. they say the jews first and everybody else second. that is the way they did it the way they did it. it was extremely credible but when the jewish organizations backed off because of the transfer agreement, it was left to unsupported random people who for years walked up and down the streets with protest signs and still carry the torch. i am glad they did. board unnecessary. we needed to protest the hitler regime and to save the jews. i am not -- not unh